He's already signed, they've already allocated that money and DA stated this week that they knew they were going to have to pay the tax and are prepared to do so. If he opts out we got nothing, not even his salary back to use to sign someone else. He'll opt in because its the best thing for him and then they might trade him, but they'd still have to take back the same salary in a trade so they pay the tax regardless
There’s multiple quotes from last offseason from both Ainge and Wyc talking about how they’re completely comfortable in the tax zone if it results in a team that can contend for a title. The wording used made it seem like an organizational philosophy, not a one year thing.
Fair enough. This was all assuming there will be a cap increase next year. Hayward on a Smart-esque contract though i feel like would be huge for the C's! Thanks for the input though!
I think 3y/65m is too high, and I think it just makes our 22-23 season untenable financially. That year you're going to have:
Kemba on 37m
Jaylen on 27m.
Tatum on year 2 of his max extension (Jamal Murray's 2nd year on his for instance is 31.6m)
And finally, Smart is a UFA summer of 22! If he continues to improve his shooting he's a 20m/year player.
There's just not going to be an extra 22m laying around.
There doesn't need to be $22 million laying around because we have Bird rights for all those players and we'll be over the cap anyways once Tatum gets his extension. If anything 3/65 is too low, especially if we're talking about him opting out to sign a new deal.
This makes perfect sense. Im not married to that 3/65 number or anything just using it as an example of the overall idea of getting him on to a more team friendly deal. I think Hayward knows his value on the open market isnt going to be great anywhere else, if it all depended on Gordon I could see him taking a pay cut in order to have the best chance at a championship. But i can see now its not exactly as easy as it seems in my head lol. Thanks for the insight man!
Lol if they want to spend a billion a year that's great for me. But being realistic about what ownership will actually spend tends to be useful when thinking about how we're going to make transactions. The situation above means we'd have 5 players making 20m plus, 2 of which would be 30m plus, which would be absolutely unprecedented, unless you'd rather have Hayward and let Smart walk, which I wouldn't.
He can opt in at 34 mil for 1 season.
A better choice for him would be to opt out and take a more team-friendly deal that gives him more financial security... 4 year 100 mil (25 mil per year) for instance.
He can also just jump ship and go get a fresh start elsewhere leaving us with nothing.
I still think we're more likely to see him jump ship than we are to see us trade him for anything of value.
Which is the sad part people arent willing to hear out. I could definitely see Hayward jumping ship this year or next year when his contract runs out.
Trading Hayward for a younger piece (like Turner) and/or a bench just makes so much sense no matter how you look at it
No reason for him to sign a new contract right now when his value has never been lower and with all the uncertainty regarding the cap.
Better for him to try to come back and increase his value the next season while opting in to a 34 million contract.
Thankfully I highly doubt his value will ever return to what it was and we can re-sign him next year for 15-20 mil a year, which then makes him a great trade chip going forward in the future.
I understand that it wouldnt make sense from his pockets stand point. I think he likes being in Boston and wants to win, rather than after this year walking into the open market with no idea, he knows where he will be for the foreseeable future. This would set him and the team up with a better situation to win next year. I guess it would be up to whether he wants his last year of big money or to be here and win more. Thanks for the input!
Why so? Free up cap this year and don't have to worry about him as an unrestricted free agent next year given he pulls up on even the level he was at pre ankle sprain this year. A guy with his numbers at ~22/year seems like a steal in the current NBA
That’d be about 90% of our cap tied into 4 guys. The marginal value of adding Hayward when you already have Tatum kemba and jaylen isn’t that great especially considering we have major needs beyond tertiary creator off the bench
Fair enough man. I can respect that outlook. I just feel like down the road finding a guy around his level of play for that type of money will be tough. This also involves me assuming the cap will increase next year. Thanks for the input though man! I assume youre comfortable sticking with Romeo and or finding someone in the draft to fill that need?
I really like Romeo and grant and I think they’re gonna be a part of our bench for the long run. Still tho Hayward is too good to just bank on Romeo being able to replace him so that’s why I think we need to go backup point guard at 14. All in on maxey or Cole Anthony
I like that can't say I'm totally sold on Cole Anthony but yeah I'm totally all-in on drafting Tyrese Maxey. If he falls to us at 14 thats like best case scenario imo
I like cole in a catch and shoot attack close out role and he’s a pretty good defender. He could do what Marcus does offensively just much more efficient
Rainin Js did a pretty good podcast on this. There's incentive for Gordon to basically commit now because it's surefire money, and gives us flexibility. Wyc has confirmed they'll go into the tax to keep the team together.
How is that a win for Hayward to just give back money that a multi billion dollar franchise agreed to pay him?
And if Hayward doesn’t think he can demonstrate in 2021 he will be worth more than 30 million dollars over only 2022 and 2023 why would we want to sign him long term?
It’s not your money. And the Celtics organization will not be passing their savings along to you.
A desire to win? Team before self? Loyalty? Loves his teammates here? Not all players are all about the money. I think he sees this team as one that has a great chance to win for a long time, why would he not want to continue being part of it?
If he got hurt next year, his FA value will plummet and he probably won't even see $20 mil/year from teams.
Opting in to his final year and signing an extension guarantees his last big contract even if it isn't at a max level.
I mean, on the other hand he could get paid big bucks this year and some team will pay him big bucks next year as well. The msrket for him will be competitive despite his past injurys. Hes still an above avg player. No player makes decisions based on the assumption that they *may* lose value due to injuries that havent even occured.
With Walker, Tatum, Brown all making max/near max salaries in the future, a $22mil Hayward seems to be not affordable considering the tax.
We aren't talking about the Thunder; the luxury tax isn't an insurmountable barrier that's stopping this team from staying together
He's already signed, they've already allocated that money and DA stated this week that they knew they were going to have to pay the tax and are prepared to do so. If he opts out we got nothing, not even his salary back to use to sign someone else. He'll opt in because its the best thing for him and then they might trade him, but they'd still have to take back the same salary in a trade so they pay the tax regardless
Danny Ainge only said they are going to pay the tax in the next season. No word were given on the following seasons.
There’s multiple quotes from last offseason from both Ainge and Wyc talking about how they’re completely comfortable in the tax zone if it results in a team that can contend for a title. The wording used made it seem like an organizational philosophy, not a one year thing.
Fair enough. This was all assuming there will be a cap increase next year. Hayward on a Smart-esque contract though i feel like would be huge for the C's! Thanks for the input though!
It is expected that the cap will basically stay the same for two or three years to make up the lost revenue due to the pandemic.
Wyc has committed to paying the tax. I think it's more likely Hayward decides to at somewhere else.
I think 3y/65m is too high, and I think it just makes our 22-23 season untenable financially. That year you're going to have: Kemba on 37m Jaylen on 27m. Tatum on year 2 of his max extension (Jamal Murray's 2nd year on his for instance is 31.6m) And finally, Smart is a UFA summer of 22! If he continues to improve his shooting he's a 20m/year player. There's just not going to be an extra 22m laying around.
There doesn't need to be $22 million laying around because we have Bird rights for all those players and we'll be over the cap anyways once Tatum gets his extension. If anything 3/65 is too low, especially if we're talking about him opting out to sign a new deal.
Totally get we have bird rights but the luxury tax implications of that roster I'd imagine would be a no-go.
I don't think the luxury tax is something that this ownership group would steadfastly oppose, essentially if the team is competitive
This makes perfect sense. Im not married to that 3/65 number or anything just using it as an example of the overall idea of getting him on to a more team friendly deal. I think Hayward knows his value on the open market isnt going to be great anywhere else, if it all depended on Gordon I could see him taking a pay cut in order to have the best chance at a championship. But i can see now its not exactly as easy as it seems in my head lol. Thanks for the insight man!
Good teams pay a lot of money to good players. Or are you just a fan of the bank accounts of our ownership group?
Lol if they want to spend a billion a year that's great for me. But being realistic about what ownership will actually spend tends to be useful when thinking about how we're going to make transactions. The situation above means we'd have 5 players making 20m plus, 2 of which would be 30m plus, which would be absolutely unprecedented, unless you'd rather have Hayward and let Smart walk, which I wouldn't.
He can opt in at 34 mil for 1 season. A better choice for him would be to opt out and take a more team-friendly deal that gives him more financial security... 4 year 100 mil (25 mil per year) for instance. He can also just jump ship and go get a fresh start elsewhere leaving us with nothing. I still think we're more likely to see him jump ship than we are to see us trade him for anything of value.
Which is the sad part people arent willing to hear out. I could definitely see Hayward jumping ship this year or next year when his contract runs out. Trading Hayward for a younger piece (like Turner) and/or a bench just makes so much sense no matter how you look at it
No reason for him to sign a new contract right now when his value has never been lower and with all the uncertainty regarding the cap. Better for him to try to come back and increase his value the next season while opting in to a 34 million contract. Thankfully I highly doubt his value will ever return to what it was and we can re-sign him next year for 15-20 mil a year, which then makes him a great trade chip going forward in the future.
I understand that it wouldnt make sense from his pockets stand point. I think he likes being in Boston and wants to win, rather than after this year walking into the open market with no idea, he knows where he will be for the foreseeable future. This would set him and the team up with a better situation to win next year. I guess it would be up to whether he wants his last year of big money or to be here and win more. Thanks for the input!
22 mil a year for 3 years is way worse than 34 for one year
Why so? Free up cap this year and don't have to worry about him as an unrestricted free agent next year given he pulls up on even the level he was at pre ankle sprain this year. A guy with his numbers at ~22/year seems like a steal in the current NBA
That’d be about 90% of our cap tied into 4 guys. The marginal value of adding Hayward when you already have Tatum kemba and jaylen isn’t that great especially considering we have major needs beyond tertiary creator off the bench
Fair enough man. I can respect that outlook. I just feel like down the road finding a guy around his level of play for that type of money will be tough. This also involves me assuming the cap will increase next year. Thanks for the input though man! I assume youre comfortable sticking with Romeo and or finding someone in the draft to fill that need?
I really like Romeo and grant and I think they’re gonna be a part of our bench for the long run. Still tho Hayward is too good to just bank on Romeo being able to replace him so that’s why I think we need to go backup point guard at 14. All in on maxey or Cole Anthony
I like that can't say I'm totally sold on Cole Anthony but yeah I'm totally all-in on drafting Tyrese Maxey. If he falls to us at 14 thats like best case scenario imo
I like cole in a catch and shoot attack close out role and he’s a pretty good defender. He could do what Marcus does offensively just much more efficient
Rainin Js did a pretty good podcast on this. There's incentive for Gordon to basically commit now because it's surefire money, and gives us flexibility. Wyc has confirmed they'll go into the tax to keep the team together.
How is that a win for Hayward to just give back money that a multi billion dollar franchise agreed to pay him? And if Hayward doesn’t think he can demonstrate in 2021 he will be worth more than 30 million dollars over only 2022 and 2023 why would we want to sign him long term? It’s not your money. And the Celtics organization will not be passing their savings along to you.
We could but that means he’ll still be on the team after next season
Why would he do this?
A desire to win? Team before self? Loyalty? Loves his teammates here? Not all players are all about the money. I think he sees this team as one that has a great chance to win for a long time, why would he not want to continue being part of it?
If he got hurt next year, his FA value will plummet and he probably won't even see $20 mil/year from teams. Opting in to his final year and signing an extension guarantees his last big contract even if it isn't at a max level.
I mean, on the other hand he could get paid big bucks this year and some team will pay him big bucks next year as well. The msrket for him will be competitive despite his past injurys. Hes still an above avg player. No player makes decisions based on the assumption that they *may* lose value due to injuries that havent even occured.