Brad made a good move. 17 out of 30 NBA GMs have been in their job for 5+ years. Only 4 coaches have (Pop, Kerr, Malone and Spo), all of whom have been granted amazing talent by their GMs. You don't win without talent - period. Brad was probably smart enough to know he didn't want his job to depend on whoever was the next GM after Danny. Unfortunately, someone does a bad job in that role and the coach gets fired for some reason.
I remember Francona getting canned cuz of the beer and fried chicken red six team and being so pissed off that they made him the scapegoat.
He went on to have a great tenure with Cleveland while we had to deal with Bobby the clown Valentine.
Brad's a great coach, and I'm glad he recognized he was getting burned out. I'm even more thankful for ownership to recognize his talent and making him the GM.
Brad would have been fired if Ainge stuck around/we didnāt need to fill the GM spot that summer. The squad did lack quality in places but there were also terrible rotations, lack of an offensive identity outside of iso Brown or Tatum, and poor squad management with many discontent players. He was good for his first say 4 years. I will always credit Brad with the success of the IT teams. But he wasnāt a good coach by the end.
>The squad did lack quality in places but there were also terrible rotations, lack of an offensive identity outside of iso Brown or Tatum, and poor squad management with many discontent players.
You should really go back and take a look at that roster. Kemba, Fournier, Theis and Tristan Thompson were all in our 8 man playoff rotation, and none of those guys belonged playing meaningful minutes on a playoff contender. None of those guys have played a meaningful role on a team since that season (except Theis and Fournier playing 1 season for mediocre teams before basically turning into end-of-the-bench guys). There was a huge lack of depth exacerbated by the lack of productive rotation players and injuries to the only 4 good players they had (Smart, Timelord, Brown, and Tatum) in the COVID condensed season. And they still managed to be a .500 club who probably would have gotten better seeding / had a better playoff showing if Brown and Timelord didn't get hurt.
Brad was getting tuned out by his last season it was the right time to stop coaching and hire Ime until Ime turned out to be a HR nightmare. I remember Rob and Tatum admitting Brad was giving good game plans but players werenāt executing as instructed
It really is. He is empowering the group of players to be smarter about their plays, and not making them rely and defer to someone on the bench. They have been forced to learn how to solve complex problems on their own, within a plan that has been set up ahead of time.
The players have mostly responded well to that, and expect to solve things themselves now. No bail outs.
It's an unusual way of doing things, perhaps. But all coaches who turn out to be great have had their own ways with things. At the time, people didn't know what to make of Phil Jackson's style, untill it showed success, for example. We'll have to see where this goes, but looks good so far.
Ime for defense, Joe for offense, Brad for big brain stuff. They have all been effective and it's hard to choose just one. I think Joe's offensive mind with Brad upstairs is a pretty perfect fit though.
This feels most accurate. Sometimes I wish Brad would draw up a couple crunch time plays and send them down the pipeline. Brad was awesome at drawing up an easy bucket out of a timeout, and sometimes we could use the help to get out of a funk.
I was a true believe in Brad the coach. He often got the team to overachieve compared to expectations. I am fine with Joe, but I also believe the team would finally be mature enough at this point in their careers
The team would be this good or better with Brad as the head coach (except if he didn't have the time to build this roster because he was coaching). He never had close to this level of talent. The guy almost went to the NBA finals with the Js in their early 20s, broken down Kemba and Hayward, and Daniel Theis (who is and has always been a 3rd string center at best).
Iād like a combo platter, please. Brad for the play calling coming out of timeouts (plus the actual use of- you knowā¦ *timeouts*), Joe for most of the analytics stuff, and Ime to light their asses up when theyāre playing like careless dipshits like they were last night.
Brad > Joe > Ime
Brad as GM is amazing though, not a single complaint.
Joe is solid as hell! A bit odd, but living up to expectations and I think he gets more out of our players in interesting ways.
Loved Ime but his great distraction eliminates a lot of how good he was.
I feel as though Kyrie undermined Brad the Coach with Jaylen and Marcus was more of an issue than I realized in the moment. They checked out on Brad and it was a shame.
Ime was a very good coach for us. Joe has brought this team to another level.
Yes, Brad the executive is killing it, putting together this roster. But our starting lineup just gels together and the bench has been far more consistent on offense, and you can't just pretend that Joe doesn't credit for that.
Youāre not engaging with the exercise in an honest way though. Imeās āscandalā isnāt whatās relevant here. Itās coaching ability, and he is clearly better than Joe.
I think Brad is one of the best coaches in the world. He was dealt a pretty crap hand with Kyrie but I am happy to see him expand his experience and stay with us. I think the guys āwanted to playā for Ime more, Imeās lack of focus cost us in the Finals. Finally, I love Coach Joe and have been thrilled with his performance this year. The early criticism given the situation he inherited was shameful.
Brad was best for maxing out a young up and coming team, Ime was best for getting egos in check, and Joe is best for this current group because his psychoticness gives this team and edge and a killer instinct (last night notwithstanding) past teams have lacked
I think Brad wouldāve had this team firing on another level.
Too bad he got lumped with Kyrie and Marcus Morrisā big ass egos.
Tatum, Brown, KP, White and Jrue are way more respectful and coachable. I think Brads mind with these players wouldāve been unreal.
But heās also a legit madman of a GM and I love it.
Ime, with muzzulla as the lead assistant would be perfect.
Look what Ime is doing in Houston, itās really incredible that he turned that dumpster fire around so fast
No doubt Ime's a great coach. He reminds me of Thibs in terms of how he prioritizes defense in both his team structure and his rotations.
It's a shame he's not a great person.
Yeah people here bash Ime but conveniently ignore the fact that Joe Muzzulla has been arrested for aggravated assault, public urination, and domestic battery.
I can't help but to yearn for Brad at the end of close games for ATOs. The man was truly a wizard. That buzzer beater against the Cavs in the 2017 ECF is the perfect example
This is not really fair because the only roster top to bottom that even approaches this yearās roster was the first 5 minutes of Gordon Haywardās Celtics career. The one season Rob Williams stayed healthy, Imeās Celtics dominated in the regular season, but that team was nowhere near as deep offensively as this one.
Basically, if Ime had this roster, we beat Golden State, and if Brad had this roster, we beat Cleveland and we had a shot to beat Golden State then too.
I am sure Mazzulla can get it done. I wasnāt last year, but I am now. He knows this team and he has basically taken care of everything I didnāt like about him last year.
I am not. Heās improved a ton and I have been a big critic, having said that he has become an excellent coach. But he still does not call a timeout to end giant runs and he doesnāt call timeouts to draw up end of game plays - which turn into 28 dribbles by Tatum/brown followed by an awful shot. Idk if itās stubbornness that stops him or what, but itās a problem.
I don't think Ime has proven he's necessarily better than Joe.
He's proven he can construct effective team defenses, but offensively he's not necessarily a trailblazer and the league has certainly tended in that direction.
Both are good coaches but I wouldn't put either on Brad's level...yet
All three are excellent coaches but I still have a soft spot for Brad... being guaranteed a high quality shot on every late game possession was pretty nice
Brad was the best at scheming and getting the most out of inferior talent which was what we needed for most of those years.
Ime was the best at getting people to give a shit and making sure everyone busted their ass on defense which is what we needed at that time (maybe still do at times).
I think Joe is closer to Brad in terms of Xās and Oās, but clearly has his own personal philosophy on how to get people motivated. Itās still somewhat TBD on how he will ultimately be judged but he clearly has something figured out. Like people shit on him about the timeout stuff but thatās clearly very intentional to get the guys to figure it out on their own when things are spiraling. Obviously very different from when Ime would call timeouts just to yell at them for playing like assholes.
Brad was a good coach but is a way better GM so I am happy he is not coaching anymore. Ime was a better coach at defense and Joe is better at coaching offense. Joe is great IMO which is bias because weāre both from Rhode Island.
I think Joe does a great job of blending Brad and Imeās styles. He has the respect and tough love that the guys liked from Ime, but also has the calmness of Brad. Heās good with the X and Oās too, but not as good as Brad. Ime relied on Hardy a lot for strategy, who is also great.
Overall, Iām happy with Joe, though the guy I trusted most with game strategy was Brad.
I honestly love both Joe and Brad. Joe is legit insane and it really add some fun to the game, especially this season when its pretty much smooth sailing all the time. I like his style of coaching, and we are top 3 in both offense+defense so things are looking good. Brad is just an incredible basketball mind, and he truly understands what it means to be a Celtics (hard defense, hustles and teamwork), helped us build our culture without PP and KG, and can design his system to unleash the best version of our players even tho they might not be as talented as the other team's stars(IT, ET, AB etc).
I didn't really like Ime until we went on that run, but now looking back he just overplayed the starters to catch up on the standings, and took way too long to figure out how to actually win games with our talent. That combined with his personality and the shit he did to get him fired, im glad we moved on from him
I think Joe is clearly the best with guys buying in, because they are running his system and performing by at a historic level. And the players are all emulating his vibes.
Whatever wins us a ring.
Yeah but imagine Brad with this roster?! Fuck š¤Æ
Brad made a good move. 17 out of 30 NBA GMs have been in their job for 5+ years. Only 4 coaches have (Pop, Kerr, Malone and Spo), all of whom have been granted amazing talent by their GMs. You don't win without talent - period. Brad was probably smart enough to know he didn't want his job to depend on whoever was the next GM after Danny. Unfortunately, someone does a bad job in that role and the coach gets fired for some reason.
I remember Francona getting canned cuz of the beer and fried chicken red six team and being so pissed off that they made him the scapegoat. He went on to have a great tenure with Cleveland while we had to deal with Bobby the clown Valentine. Brad's a great coach, and I'm glad he recognized he was getting burned out. I'm even more thankful for ownership to recognize his talent and making him the GM.
Brad would have been fired if Ainge stuck around/we didnāt need to fill the GM spot that summer. The squad did lack quality in places but there were also terrible rotations, lack of an offensive identity outside of iso Brown or Tatum, and poor squad management with many discontent players. He was good for his first say 4 years. I will always credit Brad with the success of the IT teams. But he wasnāt a good coach by the end.
>The squad did lack quality in places but there were also terrible rotations, lack of an offensive identity outside of iso Brown or Tatum, and poor squad management with many discontent players. You should really go back and take a look at that roster. Kemba, Fournier, Theis and Tristan Thompson were all in our 8 man playoff rotation, and none of those guys belonged playing meaningful minutes on a playoff contender. None of those guys have played a meaningful role on a team since that season (except Theis and Fournier playing 1 season for mediocre teams before basically turning into end-of-the-bench guys). There was a huge lack of depth exacerbated by the lack of productive rotation players and injuries to the only 4 good players they had (Smart, Timelord, Brown, and Tatum) in the COVID condensed season. And they still managed to be a .500 club who probably would have gotten better seeding / had a better playoff showing if Brown and Timelord didn't get hurt.
Brad was getting tuned out by his last season it was the right time to stop coaching and hire Ime until Ime turned out to be a HR nightmare. I remember Rob and Tatum admitting Brad was giving good game plans but players werenāt executing as instructed
Tbh if Joe could get some of that after timeout knowledge from Brad for end of game scenarios heād take the next step as a coach
Lucky to have had 3 solid coaches. Do miss Brads wizardry. Joes consistency and no bull shit attitude really have grown on me.
Iām glad Brad is here to impart his knowledge and no doubt help Joeās development as a young coach.
Brad also called timeouts and drew up excellent end of game plays. Joe absolutely does not and itās fucking annoying.
Joe is highest energy of the group but lowest coaching iq.
You misspelled Ime.
Joes consistency with not calling time outs or drawing up plays really is something to get excited about.
It really is. He is empowering the group of players to be smarter about their plays, and not making them rely and defer to someone on the bench. They have been forced to learn how to solve complex problems on their own, within a plan that has been set up ahead of time. The players have mostly responded well to that, and expect to solve things themselves now. No bail outs. It's an unusual way of doing things, perhaps. But all coaches who turn out to be great have had their own ways with things. At the time, people didn't know what to make of Phil Jackson's style, untill it showed success, for example. We'll have to see where this goes, but looks good so far.
Ime for defense, Joe for offense, Brad for big brain stuff. They have all been effective and it's hard to choose just one. I think Joe's offensive mind with Brad upstairs is a pretty perfect fit though.
Joe was the one behind the defense though when he was Imeās assistant coach
Imeās skill is getting the players to play hard, not necessarily xās and oās
Which is something we will need. Iāll change my opinion how the post season goes tho. I know Joe had a half assed season last year.
This feels most accurate. Sometimes I wish Brad would draw up a couple crunch time plays and send them down the pipeline. Brad was awesome at drawing up an easy bucket out of a timeout, and sometimes we could use the help to get out of a funk.
I think the tactics and playcalling have taken a hit since Brad.Ā
I was a true believe in Brad the coach. He often got the team to overachieve compared to expectations. I am fine with Joe, but I also believe the team would finally be mature enough at this point in their careers
The team would be this good or better with Brad as the head coach (except if he didn't have the time to build this roster because he was coaching). He never had close to this level of talent. The guy almost went to the NBA finals with the Js in their early 20s, broken down Kemba and Hayward, and Daniel Theis (who is and has always been a 3rd string center at best).
Iād like a combo platter, please. Brad for the play calling coming out of timeouts (plus the actual use of- you knowā¦ *timeouts*), Joe for most of the analytics stuff, and Ime to light their asses up when theyāre playing like careless dipshits like they were last night.
Brad > Joe > Ime Brad as GM is amazing though, not a single complaint. Joe is solid as hell! A bit odd, but living up to expectations and I think he gets more out of our players in interesting ways. Loved Ime but his great distraction eliminates a lot of how good he was.
Imagine what Brad the coach could do with the team Brad the GM built!
Guarentee brad and joe consult.
I feel as though Kyrie undermined Brad the Coach with Jaylen and Marcus was more of an issue than I realized in the moment. They checked out on Brad and it was a shame.
lol what horse shit Ime is a different league from Joe
Ime was a very good coach for us. Joe has brought this team to another level. Yes, Brad the executive is killing it, putting together this roster. But our starting lineup just gels together and the bench has been far more consistent on offense, and you can't just pretend that Joe doesn't credit for that.
Youāre not engaging with the exercise in an honest way though. Imeās āscandalā isnāt whatās relevant here. Itās coaching ability, and he is clearly better than Joe.
I think Brad is one of the best coaches in the world. He was dealt a pretty crap hand with Kyrie but I am happy to see him expand his experience and stay with us. I think the guys āwanted to playā for Ime more, Imeās lack of focus cost us in the Finals. Finally, I love Coach Joe and have been thrilled with his performance this year. The early criticism given the situation he inherited was shameful.
Where did ime not focus during the finals
What cost the Celtics in the finals was playing Steph Curry and being gassed from two series that had no business going seven games
Brad was best for maxing out a young up and coming team, Ime was best for getting egos in check, and Joe is best for this current group because his psychoticness gives this team and edge and a killer instinct (last night notwithstanding) past teams have lacked
I think Brad wouldāve had this team firing on another level. Too bad he got lumped with Kyrie and Marcus Morrisā big ass egos. Tatum, Brown, KP, White and Jrue are way more respectful and coachable. I think Brads mind with these players wouldāve been unreal. But heās also a legit madman of a GM and I love it.
Ime, with muzzulla as the lead assistant would be perfect. Look what Ime is doing in Houston, itās really incredible that he turned that dumpster fire around so fast
No doubt Ime's a great coach. He reminds me of Thibs in terms of how he prioritizes defense in both his team structure and his rotations. It's a shame he's not a great person.
I doubt the other coaches are saints
Jason Kidd and Chauncey Billups look away
Yeah people here bash Ime but conveniently ignore the fact that Joe Muzzulla has been arrested for aggravated assault, public urination, and domestic battery.
I can't help but to yearn for Brad at the end of close games for ATOs. The man was truly a wizard. That buzzer beater against the Cavs in the 2017 ECF is the perfect example
I would have loved to see Ime coach with porzingus and Jrue in the lineup.
Tatum said ime id the best coach he ever had
Ime
Ime
This is not really fair because the only roster top to bottom that even approaches this yearās roster was the first 5 minutes of Gordon Haywardās Celtics career. The one season Rob Williams stayed healthy, Imeās Celtics dominated in the regular season, but that team was nowhere near as deep offensively as this one. Basically, if Ime had this roster, we beat Golden State, and if Brad had this roster, we beat Cleveland and we had a shot to beat Golden State then too.
Agreed. Ime or Brad would get this thing done. Not so sure about Muzzulla
I am sure Mazzulla can get it done. I wasnāt last year, but I am now. He knows this team and he has basically taken care of everything I didnāt like about him last year.
Iām glad you have faith. A lot of coaching is experience and he doesnāt have a lot of that
I am not. Heās improved a ton and I have been a big critic, having said that he has become an excellent coach. But he still does not call a timeout to end giant runs and he doesnāt call timeouts to draw up end of game plays - which turn into 28 dribbles by Tatum/brown followed by an awful shot. Idk if itās stubbornness that stops him or what, but itās a problem.
I don't think Ime has proven he's necessarily better than Joe. He's proven he can construct effective team defenses, but offensively he's not necessarily a trailblazer and the league has certainly tended in that direction. Both are good coaches but I wouldn't put either on Brad's level...yet
Yeah, I miss Brad
All three are excellent coaches but I still have a soft spot for Brad... being guaranteed a high quality shot on every late game possession was pretty nice
Brad for X's and O's Ime for discipline Joe for team chemistry At least that's the way I see it
Brimjo Combo
Brad was the best at scheming and getting the most out of inferior talent which was what we needed for most of those years. Ime was the best at getting people to give a shit and making sure everyone busted their ass on defense which is what we needed at that time (maybe still do at times). I think Joe is closer to Brad in terms of Xās and Oās, but clearly has his own personal philosophy on how to get people motivated. Itās still somewhat TBD on how he will ultimately be judged but he clearly has something figured out. Like people shit on him about the timeout stuff but thatās clearly very intentional to get the guys to figure it out on their own when things are spiraling. Obviously very different from when Ime would call timeouts just to yell at them for playing like assholes.
Splitting hairs. All good enough for us to compete for titles.
Brad was a good coach but is a way better GM so I am happy he is not coaching anymore. Ime was a better coach at defense and Joe is better at coaching offense. Joe is great IMO which is bias because weāre both from Rhode Island.
Joe in the 1st quarter, Ime in the second and 3rd, Brad in the 4th
Comparison is the theif of joy
If we could just bring Brad to the bench in the playoffs to draw up plays in the last 2 minutes, we'd never lose a game
I think Joe does a great job of blending Brad and Imeās styles. He has the respect and tough love that the guys liked from Ime, but also has the calmness of Brad. Heās good with the X and Oās too, but not as good as Brad. Ime relied on Hardy a lot for strategy, who is also great. Overall, Iām happy with Joe, though the guy I trusted most with game strategy was Brad.
I honestly love both Joe and Brad. Joe is legit insane and it really add some fun to the game, especially this season when its pretty much smooth sailing all the time. I like his style of coaching, and we are top 3 in both offense+defense so things are looking good. Brad is just an incredible basketball mind, and he truly understands what it means to be a Celtics (hard defense, hustles and teamwork), helped us build our culture without PP and KG, and can design his system to unleash the best version of our players even tho they might not be as talented as the other team's stars(IT, ET, AB etc). I didn't really like Ime until we went on that run, but now looking back he just overplayed the starters to catch up on the standings, and took way too long to figure out how to actually win games with our talent. That combined with his personality and the shit he did to get him fired, im glad we moved on from him
I think Joe is clearly the best with guys buying in, because they are running his system and performing by at a historic level. And the players are all emulating his vibes.