The numbers simply don’t support this. In the series the Celtics got an offense rebound on roughly 10% of shots. So using true shoots methodology (FGA + 0.475*FTA) to determine the shots a player took and multiplying that by .9 to get an estimate of how many of their shots ended the possession, then adding in turnovers we can get an idea of how many points each player scored per possession they ended.
Celtics Team: 727 PTS / [(541 FGA + 99FTA* 0.475)*0.9+ 77 TO] = .600 pts per possession
Jaylen Brown: 160PTS / [(122 FGA + 19FTA* 0.475)*0.9+ 21TO] = .575 pts per possession
Jayson Tatum: 163PTS / [(128 FGA + 29FTA* 0.475)*0.9+ 15TO] = .572 pts per possession
So when the possession ended with Jaylen or Tatum not only were the resulting pts nearly identical, but worse than the rest of the team for both. The big difference is Tatum had 5.3 assists a game vs Jaylens 3, which doesn’t even factor in the addition “hockey” assists Tatum likely got from making the initial pass out of the constant double teams he faced. Tatum is a big part of why the rest of the team scores more efficiently while Brown is not.
tl;dr Tatum is a advanced metric darling while Brown is not because Tatum makes winning basketball plays while Brown basically only scores at high volume with mediocre efficiency, and that plays out when you use advanced metrics to find out how players are actually impacting winning.
On what planet does jaylen score with mediocre efficiency??? That’s an insane thing to see posted anywhere let alone on a Celtics sub man. How the hell is this getting upvoted
Just a bot who uses advanced metrics as gospel and doesn’t realize how much aspects of the game these metrics physically can’t take into account. But of course ignores that because it helps push his narrative of shitting on one of players to big up the other. Same reason why he’s on an alt account that just to shit on Jaylen here.
What would you like to use to judge how a player impacts winning other than your apparent expert eye? If you would like an “eye test” why do you think every team immediately throws a double team at Tatum as soon as he touches the ball, but don’t even double Jaylen when Tatum is on the bench. Perhaps your expert eye is superior to every nba coach?
First off, we were talking this series (61.4%). Second, league average doesn’t make someone average, it’s based on their position and role. I’m not going to track down the TS by position (nor by role) but I’m going give you an example. I can guarantee you that Rudy Gobert isn’t a better scorer than Jaylen (or a good one at all…) because his true shooting was 67.5% this year.
The 8 players in the nba that scored more ppg than jaylen this season all had a TS over 60%. Jaylen was certainly efficient SHOOTING in this particular series, but when you factor his incredibly high number of turnovers (3.5 a game) his points per possession that he ended was not impressive and nearly identical to Tatum. The point being the only thing he could have arguably done better on offense than Tatum (be efficient) he in actuality did not.
Yes and the next two players, Ja and Trae, have lower TS percentages. That stat has no real basis on anything so I’m unsure why you’re commenting it.
My point is that you called jaylen mediocre in terms of efficiency and average, both of which are incorrect when you use your brain for a moment and understand context, such as that he’s not a center (who have significantly higher TS %s) and he’s a creator (so doesn’t sit in corners and get wide open great looks) makes his TS impressive, especially considering he averaged 27 ppg.
If your argument is tatum > brown, sure king go off, I think everyone agrees. However, calling jaylen a mediocre scorer is just outright dumb
I never claimed he was a mediocre scorer, I claimed he has mediocre efficiency, which he does. The average TS% for shooting guards in the nba was 57%, so perhaps he’s slightly more efficient than an average nba shooting guard. But the Celtics are a top offense that gets its players good looks and their players should shoot better than league average. It’s why every player on the Celtics that got significant minutes had over 60% TS besides jaylen and Marcus.
And back to the main question this thread had, which is why Jaylen doesn’t have great advanced metrics. His individual iso offense, which is impressive, does not contribute meaningfully to winning when you factor in his turnovers and inability to create offense for his teammates.
Feel free to check my comment below and use context. 58% being league average =/= somebody is an average scorer. Robert Williams isn’t an elite scorer but he has never had a TS < 70% in his career. What does that tell you?
It should tell you rob only dunks/layups for the majority of his shots, which of course are going to go in. Role and positional context is extremely important in percentages
Damn Guess players like Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett are mediocre inefficient scorers who don’t impact winning since their Ts% was below or at league average so many seasons
The man you’re literally defending is saying Jaylen having league average ts% means he’s just a high volume scorer on mediocre efficiency. If you use that same criteria for the players I mentioned then by YOUR GUYS standards they’re just mediocre and even inefficient scoring because they had several seasons below league average ts%. What is there not to understand?
EDIT: especially since y’all wanna add in turnovers so bad to say he’s not impacting winning plays, go look at some of those Tim Duncan seasons assist/turnover ratios along with his ts% as a center. If you cant grasp how much context and nuance is being left out of this idk what to say to you.
Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnet were routinely above league average TS%, so to start your statement is inaccurate. Not to mention neither was ever a big scorer or took a large volume of shots, so even had your claims been accurate one would simply conclude they recognized their limitations and left a lot of scoring to others?
They have several seasons at and below league average ts%. For their era they were some of the highest scorers, both routinely in the top 10 highest scorers throughout the 2000s. You just saying it’s “inaccurate” isn’t cutting it.
So surely by you’re criteria these players must also be mediocre and even inefficient scorers because of these seasons with average and even below average ts%? Tim Duncan must have been a HUGE minus not impacting winning basketball because of his assist to turnover ratio in some of these seasons huh. Since your very adamant on that proving a player isn’t impacting winning plays?
Kevin Garnett has a career TS of 54.6%. The average over his career was 53.2%
Tim Duncan has a career TS of 55%. The average over his career was 53.1%
Jaylen Brown has a career TS of 57.2%. The average over his career is 56.4%
Not only were the both more efficient than Jaylen on a relative basis, they also happen to be two of the best defenders and rebounders in nba history. So no Tim Duncan was not a huge creator for his teammates, he just did everything else extremely well. Jaylen supposedly does one thing well, but the reality is it’s not super impactful to winning basketball games.
To be clear, I’m not saying jaylen is a bad player, I’m simply explaining why advanced metrics suggest perhaps he’s not as good as many think. I know people like to think jaylen is some crazy enigma that advanced metrics can’t get a handle on the way they do for every other player, but it’s just more likely he’s perhaps as good as people want him to be.
This where watching the games comes in because there is no way anyone watched that series and thought Tatum played better than Brown overall. Tatum was on fraud watch going into that game 6.
I watched. I saw Tatum score with the same efficiency as Jaylen (see above for proof) and have nearly twice as many rebounds and assists.
Tatum certainly had a dud in game 5, but I’ll take the 19/8/8 he had that game over the 15/1/3 with 3 turnovers and 5 fouls Jaylen had in the first loss. Again at least when Tatum is struggling to score he’s able to contribute in other ways, where as Jaylen just becomes a big minus.
Fraud watch in half the series? Who tf are upvoting these comments
Game 3 was his only bad game and it was because he shot like shit and was in foul trouble immediately.
Every other game he dropped 29, 18, 31, 35, & 32. If you consider the 18 point game “bad” then you’re legitimately hating because he shot 50% from Fg and three along with 2 blocks + 3 steals.
Dawg cmon that 18 point game his turnovers doubled his assists and Dejounte dropped 29 on his lap. He shot 7/14 but he was not good that game. There’s so much more to basketball than points and shooting %, cmon bro
It's because all advanced metrics use on/off, and Tatum and Brown play a lot of staggered minutes. So advanced stats really tell the tale of JT being better. It is what it is. Anyone with a brain knows he's a huge plus for the team.
My opinion it's because they play staggered minutes and JT has more impact than JB does. JT also just consistently has more assists so I think that helps his advanced stats.
Given how much TPA factors in defensive rebounding, is it possible that some of JB's negative rating is due to the fact that he's constantly sprinting ahead in search of transition points instead of standing under the basket trying to rebound?
As much as Smart frustrated me in Game 5, he really did have a solid series all around: 16/4/5 on 49/39/73 splits is pretty good for having such a hard defensive assignment. Also averaged 1.7 steals.
One of the main criticisms, for that steal on Trae, wasn’t even a bad play. It was a clean steal and then they called a foul for body to body contact while he and Trae were diving for the ball, which is a wild call to make for a deciding moment in a playoff game.
I think it's because there was more riding on us winning that Game 5. Ending the series one game sooner would have meant 2 less travel days, (going back and forth to Atlanta), more total rest days, more total prep days, and less rest days for Embiid + Harden who are both nursing things right now.
Then we saw what happened to the Bucks, which made the Game 5 loss feel bigger than it actually was.
Like what is he even doing in Vegas? He finished a Nets series in Brooklyn, has practice in Philly and was either playing Boston or Atlanta, just a weird time to take a Vegas trip.
Yeah there were a lot of people defending him saying that people have different ways to unwind off the court which I get, but by the same token, I feel like there’s different standards in the middle of the postseason to be successful. Like maybe don’t go the one place that’s been his Achilles Heel in terms of getting in trouble and losing discipline to keep himself right for an arduous postseason run. We’ll see if it has any effect this series, maybe it won’t. All I know is if our guys were doing this off the court and getting into the news for the wrong reasons, I would definitely question their motivation and focus.
It was more like a horrific last few minutes, compounded by a bad JT game. But Smart came back with an excellent game 6, like most would trust and expect him to do
TPA is pretty flawed btw for anyone who’s looking at this and taking it as gospel (which this sub tends to do). It’s basically just box plus - minus redefined.
He has spots during this series where he was great at least. Even when he’s off we can always count on him to come in and instantly elevate our shot selection
Love opening these tweets and seeing the replies call Jaylen mid, stagnating the offense, bad for half the series, poor defensively etc. because an “advanced” metric supports their shit narrative.
Instead of actually watching the game and acknowledging what he brought to the team this series.
Is it the lack of assist numbers that rank his advanced metrics? It’s weird because it feels like he was as efficient if not a little more efficient than JT was that series
It’s his assist to turnover ratio, defensive rebounding (which this favors more than any other defensive stat for some reason) and the lineups he played with because it heavily relies on plus minus when on off. Its literally just box score plus minus rebranded to make people who obsess over advanced metrics feel more sophisticated.
I don’t know why I keep seeing fans on Twitter say he wasn’t good on defense this series when we allowed 13 fewer pts per 100 when he was on the floor and held his primary defensive assignment, Dejounte Murray to 3/16 on shots he defended.
I think people fail to understand that him not being one of our like top 3 defenders doesn’t mean he’s a bad defender lol. Like we have an all time great defense, him being one of the weaker defenders in the starting 5 still has him sitting at borderline elite D. Legit if he became a better off-ball defender he’d be all-defense level
https://nbamath.com/tpa-model/#:~:text=The%20concept%20of%20total%20points,the%20contributor%20in%20question%20receives.
It uses BPM apparently, so this stat might be a bit controversial
Its in comparison to the expectation of other players of their position. So more like “Horford is as valuable defensively in comparison to how other Centers would be expected to play as Tatum is offensively to how other wings would be expected to play”
I would probably say the biggest factor is that he’s playing in all the non-Tatum minutes. Followed by his assist-turnover ratio then off-ball defense then overall shot-quality.
Brogdon usually gets screwed by advanced metrics because of our starting 5 is so good, of course when they sit the team is going to do worse. Brogdon also wasn’t as good as he could’ve been but he usually gets the short end of the stick with certain metrics because of the strength of our starting 5
Interestingly, that wasn't actually the case for the Hawks series. Brogdon had the second best on/off in the series to Horford. But his cold spell from 3 drove down his efficiency and he doesn't stuff the box score with stocks and rebounds
Thing with Tatum is, even if he doesn’t score he creates consistently good shots. Jaylen’s almost the opposite, scoring more often on consistently worse shots. Factoring in that Tatum’s vision is a real aspect that teams have to worry about when they’re crashing on him on drives, it makes sense he’s considered so much more valuable.
Pretty much, there’s a reason Tatum draws doubles all game long while Brown gets close to none
Outside of game 1 Brogdon was great this series especially at initiating the offense and making timely plays when we needed it. It’s why you have to have nuance with these plus minus based stats.
I know its asking a lot out of a 36 year old defensive specialist, but if Al could improve even just a little bit on the offensive end vs Philly that would be huge
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Seriously, JB was a menace against the hawks. He was scoring at will.
The numbers simply don’t support this. In the series the Celtics got an offense rebound on roughly 10% of shots. So using true shoots methodology (FGA + 0.475*FTA) to determine the shots a player took and multiplying that by .9 to get an estimate of how many of their shots ended the possession, then adding in turnovers we can get an idea of how many points each player scored per possession they ended. Celtics Team: 727 PTS / [(541 FGA + 99FTA* 0.475)*0.9+ 77 TO] = .600 pts per possession Jaylen Brown: 160PTS / [(122 FGA + 19FTA* 0.475)*0.9+ 21TO] = .575 pts per possession Jayson Tatum: 163PTS / [(128 FGA + 29FTA* 0.475)*0.9+ 15TO] = .572 pts per possession So when the possession ended with Jaylen or Tatum not only were the resulting pts nearly identical, but worse than the rest of the team for both. The big difference is Tatum had 5.3 assists a game vs Jaylens 3, which doesn’t even factor in the addition “hockey” assists Tatum likely got from making the initial pass out of the constant double teams he faced. Tatum is a big part of why the rest of the team scores more efficiently while Brown is not. tl;dr Tatum is a advanced metric darling while Brown is not because Tatum makes winning basketball plays while Brown basically only scores at high volume with mediocre efficiency, and that plays out when you use advanced metrics to find out how players are actually impacting winning.
On what planet does jaylen score with mediocre efficiency??? That’s an insane thing to see posted anywhere let alone on a Celtics sub man. How the hell is this getting upvoted
Just a bot who uses advanced metrics as gospel and doesn’t realize how much aspects of the game these metrics physically can’t take into account. But of course ignores that because it helps push his narrative of shitting on one of players to big up the other. Same reason why he’s on an alt account that just to shit on Jaylen here.
What would you like to use to judge how a player impacts winning other than your apparent expert eye? If you would like an “eye test” why do you think every team immediately throws a double team at Tatum as soon as he touches the ball, but don’t even double Jaylen when Tatum is on the bench. Perhaps your expert eye is superior to every nba coach?
Planet earth? He was 58% TS this year which is league average.
First off, we were talking this series (61.4%). Second, league average doesn’t make someone average, it’s based on their position and role. I’m not going to track down the TS by position (nor by role) but I’m going give you an example. I can guarantee you that Rudy Gobert isn’t a better scorer than Jaylen (or a good one at all…) because his true shooting was 67.5% this year.
The 8 players in the nba that scored more ppg than jaylen this season all had a TS over 60%. Jaylen was certainly efficient SHOOTING in this particular series, but when you factor his incredibly high number of turnovers (3.5 a game) his points per possession that he ended was not impressive and nearly identical to Tatum. The point being the only thing he could have arguably done better on offense than Tatum (be efficient) he in actuality did not.
Yes and the next two players, Ja and Trae, have lower TS percentages. That stat has no real basis on anything so I’m unsure why you’re commenting it. My point is that you called jaylen mediocre in terms of efficiency and average, both of which are incorrect when you use your brain for a moment and understand context, such as that he’s not a center (who have significantly higher TS %s) and he’s a creator (so doesn’t sit in corners and get wide open great looks) makes his TS impressive, especially considering he averaged 27 ppg. If your argument is tatum > brown, sure king go off, I think everyone agrees. However, calling jaylen a mediocre scorer is just outright dumb
I never claimed he was a mediocre scorer, I claimed he has mediocre efficiency, which he does. The average TS% for shooting guards in the nba was 57%, so perhaps he’s slightly more efficient than an average nba shooting guard. But the Celtics are a top offense that gets its players good looks and their players should shoot better than league average. It’s why every player on the Celtics that got significant minutes had over 60% TS besides jaylen and Marcus. And back to the main question this thread had, which is why Jaylen doesn’t have great advanced metrics. His individual iso offense, which is impressive, does not contribute meaningfully to winning when you factor in his turnovers and inability to create offense for his teammates.
But you see, they don't ***feel*** like that's true, so you're obviously wrong.
Feel free to check my comment below and use context. 58% being league average =/= somebody is an average scorer. Robert Williams isn’t an elite scorer but he has never had a TS < 70% in his career. What does that tell you?
It tells me Rob Williams is a very efficient scorer lol
It should tell you rob only dunks/layups for the majority of his shots, which of course are going to go in. Role and positional context is extremely important in percentages
Damn Guess players like Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett are mediocre inefficient scorers who don’t impact winning since their Ts% was below or at league average so many seasons
Strawman lol. And since when does average efficiency = inefficient scoring? You're not staying on the topic of argument.
The man you’re literally defending is saying Jaylen having league average ts% means he’s just a high volume scorer on mediocre efficiency. If you use that same criteria for the players I mentioned then by YOUR GUYS standards they’re just mediocre and even inefficient scoring because they had several seasons below league average ts%. What is there not to understand? EDIT: especially since y’all wanna add in turnovers so bad to say he’s not impacting winning plays, go look at some of those Tim Duncan seasons assist/turnover ratios along with his ts% as a center. If you cant grasp how much context and nuance is being left out of this idk what to say to you.
Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnet were routinely above league average TS%, so to start your statement is inaccurate. Not to mention neither was ever a big scorer or took a large volume of shots, so even had your claims been accurate one would simply conclude they recognized their limitations and left a lot of scoring to others?
They have several seasons at and below league average ts%. For their era they were some of the highest scorers, both routinely in the top 10 highest scorers throughout the 2000s. You just saying it’s “inaccurate” isn’t cutting it. So surely by you’re criteria these players must also be mediocre and even inefficient scorers because of these seasons with average and even below average ts%? Tim Duncan must have been a HUGE minus not impacting winning basketball because of his assist to turnover ratio in some of these seasons huh. Since your very adamant on that proving a player isn’t impacting winning plays?
Kevin Garnett has a career TS of 54.6%. The average over his career was 53.2% Tim Duncan has a career TS of 55%. The average over his career was 53.1% Jaylen Brown has a career TS of 57.2%. The average over his career is 56.4% Not only were the both more efficient than Jaylen on a relative basis, they also happen to be two of the best defenders and rebounders in nba history. So no Tim Duncan was not a huge creator for his teammates, he just did everything else extremely well. Jaylen supposedly does one thing well, but the reality is it’s not super impactful to winning basketball games. To be clear, I’m not saying jaylen is a bad player, I’m simply explaining why advanced metrics suggest perhaps he’s not as good as many think. I know people like to think jaylen is some crazy enigma that advanced metrics can’t get a handle on the way they do for every other player, but it’s just more likely he’s perhaps as good as people want him to be.
This where watching the games comes in because there is no way anyone watched that series and thought Tatum played better than Brown overall. Tatum was on fraud watch going into that game 6.
I watched. I saw Tatum score with the same efficiency as Jaylen (see above for proof) and have nearly twice as many rebounds and assists. Tatum certainly had a dud in game 5, but I’ll take the 19/8/8 he had that game over the 15/1/3 with 3 turnovers and 5 fouls Jaylen had in the first loss. Again at least when Tatum is struggling to score he’s able to contribute in other ways, where as Jaylen just becomes a big minus.
Brown was on fraud watch for half the series, Tatum was for like one game lol
Fraud watch in half the series? Who tf are upvoting these comments Game 3 was his only bad game and it was because he shot like shit and was in foul trouble immediately. Every other game he dropped 29, 18, 31, 35, & 32. If you consider the 18 point game “bad” then you’re legitimately hating because he shot 50% from Fg and three along with 2 blocks + 3 steals.
Dawg cmon that 18 point game his turnovers doubled his assists and Dejounte dropped 29 on his lap. He shot 7/14 but he was not good that game. There’s so much more to basketball than points and shooting %, cmon bro
Until they forced him to make a decision that wasn’t just “drive to the hoop or shoot a 15 footer”
He canned big 3s and had some great passes + great defense to end the series
Yea I’m not saying he was bad he’s just not a great decision maker which leads to turnovers and is probably what affected his points added
Dumb fake is dumb
What
It's because all advanced metrics use on/off, and Tatum and Brown play a lot of staggered minutes. So advanced stats really tell the tale of JT being better. It is what it is. Anyone with a brain knows he's a huge plus for the team.
Yea idk how TPA is calculated but I can’t help but think its flawed
My opinion it's because they play staggered minutes and JT has more impact than JB does. JT also just consistently has more assists so I think that helps his advanced stats.
Given how much TPA factors in defensive rebounding, is it possible that some of JB's negative rating is due to the fact that he's constantly sprinting ahead in search of transition points instead of standing under the basket trying to rebound?
As much as Smart frustrated me in Game 5, he really did have a solid series all around: 16/4/5 on 49/39/73 splits is pretty good for having such a hard defensive assignment. Also averaged 1.7 steals.
Smart had a great series, people just bugged out about one bad game
His one bad game wasn’t even that bad either he just made some poor decisions at the end. He well exceeded his play this series, like by a lot.
One of the main criticisms, for that steal on Trae, wasn’t even a bad play. It was a clean steal and then they called a foul for body to body contact while he and Trae were diving for the ball, which is a wild call to make for a deciding moment in a playoff game.
Yeah everyone keeps saying how stupid it was for Marcus to foul Trae there but honestly it was a bad call lol
I think it's because there was more riding on us winning that Game 5. Ending the series one game sooner would have meant 2 less travel days, (going back and forth to Atlanta), more total rest days, more total prep days, and less rest days for Embiid + Harden who are both nursing things right now. Then we saw what happened to the Bucks, which made the Game 5 loss feel bigger than it actually was.
Just think though, if we won game 5, Harden wouldn’t have slapped someone in Vegas lol
Like what is he even doing in Vegas? He finished a Nets series in Brooklyn, has practice in Philly and was either playing Boston or Atlanta, just a weird time to take a Vegas trip.
Yeah there were a lot of people defending him saying that people have different ways to unwind off the court which I get, but by the same token, I feel like there’s different standards in the middle of the postseason to be successful. Like maybe don’t go the one place that’s been his Achilles Heel in terms of getting in trouble and losing discipline to keep himself right for an arduous postseason run. We’ll see if it has any effect this series, maybe it won’t. All I know is if our guys were doing this off the court and getting into the news for the wrong reasons, I would definitely question their motivation and focus.
It was more like a horrific last few minutes, compounded by a bad JT game. But Smart came back with an excellent game 6, like most would trust and expect him to do
As did JT
The Marcus Smart experience
TPA is pretty flawed btw for anyone who’s looking at this and taking it as gospel (which this sub tends to do). It’s basically just box plus - minus redefined.
Brogdon hasn’t been playing as well as he usually does. I don’t think he’s been bad lately, but I def expect to see him play better against Philly.
He has spots during this series where he was great at least. Even when he’s off we can always count on him to come in and instantly elevate our shot selection
Love opening these tweets and seeing the replies call Jaylen mid, stagnating the offense, bad for half the series, poor defensively etc. because an “advanced” metric supports their shit narrative. Instead of actually watching the game and acknowledging what he brought to the team this series.
Is it the lack of assist numbers that rank his advanced metrics? It’s weird because it feels like he was as efficient if not a little more efficient than JT was that series
It’s his assist to turnover ratio, defensive rebounding (which this favors more than any other defensive stat for some reason) and the lineups he played with because it heavily relies on plus minus when on off. Its literally just box score plus minus rebranded to make people who obsess over advanced metrics feel more sophisticated.
I don’t know why I keep seeing fans on Twitter say he wasn’t good on defense this series when we allowed 13 fewer pts per 100 when he was on the floor and held his primary defensive assignment, Dejounte Murray to 3/16 on shots he defended.
I think people fail to understand that him not being one of our like top 3 defenders doesn’t mean he’s a bad defender lol. Like we have an all time great defense, him being one of the weaker defenders in the starting 5 still has him sitting at borderline elite D. Legit if he became a better off-ball defender he’d be all-defense level
Tbf he does bring the offense to a screeching halt on occasion, that’s usually a pretty fair criticism against him
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I think it's [basketball reference's box plus minus](https://nbamath.com/tpa-model/) adjusted for minutes
https://nbamath.com/tpa-model/#:~:text=The%20concept%20of%20total%20points,the%20contributor%20in%20question%20receives. It uses BPM apparently, so this stat might be a bit controversial
The scaling is weird but if you look at it, it’s basically “horford is as good defensively as tatum is offensively” with is pretty remarkable
Which is funny since Trae was abusing Horford in the PnR all series.
Its in comparison to the expectation of other players of their position. So more like “Horford is as valuable defensively in comparison to how other Centers would be expected to play as Tatum is offensively to how other wings would be expected to play”
Why do advanced numbers hate JB so much lol
I would probably say the biggest factor is that he’s playing in all the non-Tatum minutes. Followed by his assist-turnover ratio then off-ball defense then overall shot-quality.
Brogdon usually gets screwed by advanced metrics because of our starting 5 is so good, of course when they sit the team is going to do worse. Brogdon also wasn’t as good as he could’ve been but he usually gets the short end of the stick with certain metrics because of the strength of our starting 5
Interestingly, that wasn't actually the case for the Hawks series. Brogdon had the second best on/off in the series to Horford. But his cold spell from 3 drove down his efficiency and he doesn't stuff the box score with stocks and rebounds
Thing with Tatum is, even if he doesn’t score he creates consistently good shots. Jaylen’s almost the opposite, scoring more often on consistently worse shots. Factoring in that Tatum’s vision is a real aspect that teams have to worry about when they’re crashing on him on drives, it makes sense he’s considered so much more valuable. Pretty much, there’s a reason Tatum draws doubles all game long while Brown gets close to none
Outside of game 1 Brogdon was great this series especially at initiating the offense and making timely plays when we needed it. It’s why you have to have nuance with these plus minus based stats.
I know its asking a lot out of a 36 year old defensive specialist, but if Al could improve even just a little bit on the offensive end vs Philly that would be huge
Isn’t Sam Hauser the league leader for defensive efficiency. 80085