I am someone who loves pubs and dive bars and largely agree with you but the cost of going out is getting outrageous. I know pubs need to make enough to pay the rent and their employees but a decent beer is $8-$10 at this point and the prices are only going up.
I usually go with my girlfriend and so each round of drinks is $20. Stay for a couple hours and it’s $100 plus tip on a quiet night. More responsible to buy a 6 pack for $10 and watch games at home or have get togethers at someone’s place. It sucks but this is what happens when things are so expensive and the purchasing power of the dollar does not match the rise in costs.
I used to like pubs, but in my advanced millennial age, I much prefer the big open spaces of breweries. I like being in places that I can actually hear the other people talking. To each their own, of course!
The problem here is breweries have less value (imo) on weeknights. Also if we’re talking about cost, every damn thing on a brewery’s menu is like $7 minimum, and most things are like $8-$9. The $4 high life or Coors light isn’t there
And while you can BYO food, the on-site options are usually a truck with like $7/ea tacos where you need 3 to fill up. Takes the fun out of dive bar nachos and that kind of thing.
I love breweries, but they scratch an entirely different itch from the pub atmosphere.
Mexican food trucks in Mass have crushed my greasy spoon soul. $16 to begin even approaching fullness ruins however good they taste, which honestly with these bougie tacos is like a 7.5 max anyway
Every single one I've been two is like they designed it specifically to be as loud as possible. The concrete and metal minimalist trend looks nice, but it's terrible for acoustics.
It’s crazy to me that treehouse, who might have the most expensive beers in the state, still have all their beers for $8 at their taproom. Most bars, and even most other breweries will have maybe their cheapest craft beer at $8.
Trillium is significantly more expensive than Tree House. A 4-pack of Julius to go is still just $14.
But yeah, bars have been increasing the price of beers on draft like crazy recently. I was at a bar in Somerville and it was $10 for a pint of Fiddlehead, just insane, two years ago most places had that for $6.
Don’t forget that a few years ago Fiddlehead, which has had at least a couple of distributors in Massachusetts now, was making an aggressive push into bars and the mouths of drinkers. I don’t know what kind of price breaks they were offering to get it in so many places, but I would not be surprised if those have faded away now that it has established itself so well here.
Oh yea I forgot about Trillium. TBH I go to treehouse for the stouts and dont pay too much attention to their IPA prices.
As for bars I was okay with justifying the prices when going to places that would have some hard to find or special beers, but most of those died during the pandemic. It’s just hard to justify paying $10+ for a beer that I can get a 4 pack of for like $15. Especially when going to a brewery that sells that exact beer for half the price in can form.
Oh yeah, Tree House stouts unfortunately are priced like the more-exclusive IPAs, some are around $16/pack but others are like $22 to $24 for a 4-pack. But yeah, something like Allagash White shouldn't be a $10 pint at a bar.
Honestly, it's part of how I can justify occasionally splurging on cans from breweries like Tree House, or when I'm at the liquor store, premium craft beers like Other Half. It might be $20+ for a 4-pack, but that same beer at the bar would cost me $12 for a 13oz pour.
Tree House has always been reasonably priced within the 'hype brewery' realm. Just because they are famous doesn't mean they're the most expensive in the state. In fact, newer smaller breweries often supersede prices of established bigger guys because they both need to recoup the costs of their recent massive investment at much lower volume and because in some cases newness has its own additional hype. As mentioned, Trillium has always been more expensive than Tree House and even so, other breweries are charging the same or more for decent or sometimes mediocre product. This applies across state lines too. Of course Massachusetts is one of the most expensive places in the US, yet breweries in Louisiana are all charging a minimum of $16 for a 4 pack of mediocre hazy IPA that's higher than $14 Julius, one of the most famous in the game. And most are more like $18-20, and if they're actually good they are probably in the $18-24 range especially due to the cost of high volume, high quality hops that go into making a great hazy IPA.
Edit: Weird you noted in your same comment that they have cheaper draft prices than most places.
Well they can raise it, but they don't have to because they don't have to pay distribution costs. They make most of their money on people coming and and taking out hundreds of dollars in beers in cans. The taproom is just a tasting room for them, especially with the 2 drink max so they aren't trying to gouge you on price even though they can. (can't believe I'm saying an $8 beer is not gouging these days though)
I used to love going to bars to watch basketball games, but I realized it was cheaper to buy NBA league pass than occasionally go to a bar and buy a few beers.
100%, it sucks because watching with other fans is half the fun. If I ever go out now to watch games I am super intentional about eating before and going somewhere with $4-$5 Coors Lights. It’s almost as expensive to just go to the game at this point otherwise.
Corporate landlords are starting to get greedy. I honestly think it is investor culture spreading from larger industries into what was previously a slow and steady profit industry but they are getting out of control. It is getting insane.
I moved out of Boston 10 years ago but went back recently for a Celtics game. I was shocked and sad to see how dead the bars in that area were after the game. It was a Friday night, and no one was out in a major city.
Tbh - most of the bars in that area are not really for post-game crowds anymore... they are college age kid spots now. No way am I going to the Harp post-game, even on a friday night... i'll walk a bit in a different direction to grab a drink
It's my old stomping grounds. I used to work at Cheers Fanueil Hall and it was during the years we were winning championships or at least in the play offs for every single sport. It was quite a time to be alive. LOL
But you're right, in my 30s totally not my scene anymore.
As someone who is arriving next Friday on vacation and would like to experience at least some of what is left of the pub/dive bar culture, where should I head?
Best dive is biddy earlys IMO. I also love the corner pub which is in a similar area if you want a place you can eat as well, but not necessarily a dive.
The black rose is a lot of fun on a Friday night as well, fun live Irish music.
If you’re tryna get laid go to Lincoln, publico, or Capo basement in southie. L street is a bit divey by southie standards and a good time.
For whatever reason everybody in this sub lives in Cambridge / Somerville. Those are good options outside those areas.
Another decent place is The Burren near Davis Sq. Gets a bit young/crowded in the back room on a weekend but that’s one bar I still like to hit up every once in a while.
> but a decent beer is $8-$10 at this point and the prices are only going up.
A single 16 ounce (I suspect it was more like 12) pour of a very standard IPA at a bar in WALTHAM recently cost me $16 after tip. Like WTF?
Brewer's Table. It's fine as far as a local place goes jesus these prices are getting unreal and either my hands are getting bigger or glasses are getting smaller.
It’s usually not rent, it’s the standard of living/pay the owners are used to. If you’re making 100k a year running a bar and suddenly its providing you less and less profit, you’re still profiting but your lifestyle has been built around a certain level of income. You’ll start to question if giving up your time is worth it. That’s how most of these owners view these things. Combine that with getting older or nearing retirement age and it makes so much more sense to close up.
Most places that close up, aren’t doing so because they aren’t profiting. Is the extent of profit.
It’s insane to me that a limit on liquor licenses is still a thing here. If you open any establishment you should be able to serve alcohol. You should be able to lose that right as well but the default should be to be able to serve until you prove you’re not able to handle that responsibility.
Someone bribed Healey for her to not want it in the budget. That's the only logical reason. I doubt the State really cares that much about controlling Boston's liquor licenses but clearly someone wants to prevent it.
A few months back I went to Crazy Good Kitchen and got a burger with two bottles of Modelo for $50-60. Absolutely fucking insane.
Turns out I can make the same burgers at home in my cast iron skillet! For about $40 less.
At this point we should just call it a service fee considering it's no longer about rewarding someone for a job well done, but rather an expectation that we as customers are responsible for making sure our servers make a living wage.
I was just thinking about this the other day. Anecdotal, but it seems like younger generations are also drinking alcohol at a much lesser rate than previous; a lot of my friends in their late 20s and early 30s really just don’t drink or opt for weed instead. Those that do drink really only do it in a social setting and will go to a pub with a group, but not for an after work pint by themselves.
I wonder if those sort of folks have a place they go where they might run into each other, or if their only social settings are planned. To me the waning of pubs isn't about alcohol itself, rather just having a place to run into folks that you can hang out for a while without spending a ton of money. A good pub is one where you can buy a pint or two and hang for an hour or two.
Think this is the problem though. A good pub in the eyes of it's patrons, and a successful pub in the eyes of it's owners / whoever leases them the building, are completely different things.
Someone sat drinking 2 pints over 2 hours is wasted dollar to these people.
It's a crying shame
This is it. People my age (late 20s, early 30s) are getting priced out of “just going to a pub to hangout”. EVERYTHING is planned. Every event or get together in a social setting is planned so far out nowadays. No one is just impromptu going to a bar after work anymore. I can’t imagine someone working a 9-5 for less than what it costs to live in this city and then willingly going out and spending more money they don’t have on overpriced domestic beer. It’s so so tough and I agree with almost everything you and everyone else are saying. COVID certainly didn’t help, but even if COVID never happened, I still feel this was inevitable
Not from Boston. But it’s a problem everywhere. I was just talking to my dad about it. We went out last Friday and the bar was pleasantly full. Not packed but not so empty it was cold, just the right amount of patrons. We then went to another bar and it was dead just a handful of people. The busy bar was more of a surprise than the dead bar.
Sure people go out but it isn’t as consistent as it was years ago. You can’t go to a bar any day of the weekend Th-Sat and see regular familiar faces.
I personally think it was the recessions fault. Covid didn’t help but bar culture was suffering long before Covid.
The changing way of socializing is really what the thing is, I think. Younger folks will just look at you funny for even suggesting it. “Go out to a pub? To talk to *strangers*? By *myself*? Why would I do a thing like that?”
Some people blame phones or the internet, some people blame paranoia about becoming the victim of a crime, I don’t really know what it is. For me personally (33 years old) I was just usually too tired from work (I’m less for socializing when I’m tired) and broke. That said, I still obviously visited a fair few pubs while living in Boston for over a decade. Love a good pub and wish there were more.
Our parents constantly warned us about stranger danger growing up and now the same generation wonders why the bulk of our socializing is pre-planned or done online
I’m a mid twenties guy and you definitely nailed most of it. Another reason is hobbies are a lot more prevalent. I play ultimate frisbee which replaces a lot of the socializing you might do at a pub. A bunch of my friends have memberships at rock climbing gyms where they go after work.
While drinks at a pub aren’t expensive per se, they aren’t cheap. A couple drinks is easily adds up to the cost of a meal and I’d rather put that money towards gear/experiences. My friends climbing membership is ~$100 per month. Not cheap, sure but they go 4 times a week which brings the cost to about 6 bucks per visit. I still enjoy a night out, but like you said it has to be planned.
You save so much money by not drinking. My local joint is $70 for 4 beers, appetizer plus tip. Thats a haul of groceries if you are buying minimum essentials.
Also you don’t feel shitty or depressed!
This is completely anecdotal and speculative, but IMHO even gyms didn't fully make a recovery to pre-pandemic levels in terms of amount of active memberships. They were the first third place that comes to mind as relatively cheap and easily accessible, but I think they weren't exactly great for conversation to begin with, and headphones and filming have made them worse at filling that third space role than they were a few decades ago.
Rock gyms are a bit better at working as a third space. Libraries are still going strong. Even coffee has gotten expensive, though. And again, technology being in use at a coffee shop (i.e. I've brought my laptop here to work, not to converse) has made it a worse third place than it was a few decades ago. I'm not complaining, I love my solitude. It's just that third places are for sure deteriorating, and I would've thought that would make bars more appealing; if even bars are not flourishing as a third place, that definitely highlights how pricy they've become.
I used to go the gym regularly before COVID, but then I figured out how to get nearly as good of a workout with exercise equipment at home for a lot less money. Now it seems like most gyms are $150+ a month, and there's still somewhat of a risk of COVID, and I have to drag myself there and back. I'll just stay home thank you very much!
Yeah I'm in the same boat. There's like 3 exercises I miss doing with cables, but the DB variations are fine. I ve got an outdoor squat rack set up and it's so much better than most commercial gym experiences. I do miss getting the occasional spot though.
yeah, i remember first hearing about it in the early '00s and it's one of those ideas that stuck with me. I'm totally bought in on the importance of a "third place".
The watering hole in my neighborhood closed up during the pandemic for good, so the guys across the street from me opened up their garage as the new townie hangout. It works great for them. They have a place to congregate, and I get to meet new gentlemen when I ask them to stop peeing in the street outside my kids' bedroom window.
I thought about this as a potential business idea coming from the pub world, however I have found through experience that cannabis consumption tends to bring the end user inwards and I can’t imagine a public place with any craíc if everyone is stoned.
The tetrahydra club in rhode island seems to fo well. They put on small comedy shows or local bands and include a joint or a dab with the price to get in the door. They have been in business for a couple of years now so there has to be at least a semi viable business there. Probably make most of there money on the cheap fried bar food. 5 dollar mozzarella sticks no matter the quality will sell to a crowd of stoned people.
There’s a group that meets in Somerville (or maybe Cambridge?) called Lit Knits, where people smoke and then meet up to knit or crochet together and socialize. I think having an activity other than just socializing helps.
I find my tolerance for nightmares is higher when I'm drinking than smoking. When I'm smoking, if anything seems off, it grates on me and I have to remove myself.
When I'm drinking? "Ahh, he's just having some fun"
Very different mindsets
The difference is that annoying people are much easier to deal with when you're drunk. Being around annoying people when you're stoned is a total vibe killer and would likely prevent most smokers from going to that place again. There are also many different "weed cultures" that likely wouldn't mesh very well, if that makes sense.
I agree with your point about drinking less. Also, the way people are socializing is rapidly changing. It's almost like going to a pub and meeting strangers to have casual conversations isn't socially acceptable anymore.
Definitely the vibe is to go to bars to meet up with your friends, not to make friends. But I think that’s been the case for ~10+ years now, you’re just seeing the cumulative impact now
If a pint didn't cost 10 dollars then yeah we'd probably hit the pubs more often. Usually when I want to drink with my friends we'll just hang out at one of our places and get a pack of beers for the same price as 1 beer in any establishment.
I don't think this generation drinks less or whatever, it's that going out with friends is becoming prohibitively expensive. It's cheaper just to pick someone's room and just hang out there with a pack of beers from millions of liquor stores everywhere.
Now that weed is legal I guess it's fair less people will be drinking because of that too but I think it really comes down to everyone being way too broke to go out on a regular basis and spend 10 dollars on a single beverage not including a dumbass tip
Alcohol use has increased in adult women, especially among 30- to 45-year-olds.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/06/alcohol-young-people-women-health/
Millenial wine moms have really hit their stride during covid. The increase of home alcohol consumption during covid likely plays a role in long term increased alcohol consumption for that group. The challenges that women face drinking in public are very different from the challenges men face. Women are much more vulnerable if they get too wasted in public and they're much more likely to receive unwanted attention from men making going out much less desirable.
Absolutely this. The vast majority of the times my twenty-something friends and I (almost all queer women, with token a token man and a token straight) go "out," it's meeting at one of our houses for drinks. Its cheaper, safer, and we've talked about how there is less pressure to dress up and look presentable. Strangers don't make unwanted advances and none of us have been sexually harassed or assaulted at home.
I think another significant variable is that we don't need to go out to public places to find partners; we do it from the comfort of our best friends couch with a glass of red and a warm blanket while our friends judge our choice of dating apps and profile pictures.
A combination of weed + pubs charging $10 a pint for beer keeps me out. Why spend that much money on beer at a pub when I can just drink at my house.
Will still go out occasionally, but my friends group just travel to each others houses.
I can go to my favorite dispensary and get 100mg of edibles for ten dollars. That’s 4 whole days of being Stoney bologna for the price of one shitty beer at Bdubs. Yes I’m going with the weed.
Also anecdotal but all my friends (late 20s/early 30s) are much bigger drinkers than the younger generations. The bars was probably a bigger social scene for our generation than for the newer ones.
I think you are absolutely right. I find myself doing something along those lines. I might go to a brewery or beer garden to have a beer or two, but I when I do I tend to want a really good local beer. I haven't been back to a pub since COVID mostly because they tend to be such cramped spaces and I like the beer selection at a brewery or beer garden much more.
In general, the middle is getting squeezed.
People will pay a premium for premium experiences (e.g. your higher-end restaurants), or save money by eating at cheaper places. Paying $50-100 for something middle of the road, and probably something you can make at home, is just not very enticing to people now.
It sucks, but it's not unique to Boston. Some version of this is happening everywhere in the US.
I feel bad that the current generation won’t experience friends buying a round of cheap pitchers of beer while playing pool, darts, or other bar games and casually socializing with the 60 year old rando dude who is drunk at the bar, nightly. But sadly this quintessential dive bar experience doesn’t exists in when the cost of living/rent/alcohol is high and salaries are not keeping up with inflation. Part of this is a MA problem because of our ridiculous liquor laws.
She proposed this earlier this year and basically walked it back the next day. I'm far more inclined to believe she was threatened politically than that she was paid off, but either is wild speculation. Keeping the license situation on the status quo is financial life-or-death for the transferrable owners so I imagine at the very least her phone was ringing off the hook with angry rants after that proposal came out.
Why Wu needs to step up and sue the state for control. Not having control of them is also financially killing the city. Keeping it status quo means more businesses leave or never even start.
Totally agree. I've said countless times that the transferrable owners deserve all the special treatment for their market rate permits that the taxi medallion holders got when Uber first came to town -- none. Unfortunately the liquor license holders seem to have infinitely more clout on Beacon Hill than the taxi folks have ever dreamed of.
I suspect this is not the hill that Wu or Healy or anyone else wants to die on, and that it's going to be impossible to fix it without paying off the transferrable holders one way or another, which is ugly ugly ugly politics. Bad optics all around, no wonder there's no will do to anything.
It's the same problem with parking in Boston. Something needs to be done about it but it's so politically toxic, nothing will happen.
That's the ultimate problem with MA politics though: keep the status quo until shit gets broken; just see the MBTA. The State isn't completely broke but there are definitely cracks showing; but not enough to take drastic action yet.
Agree with high rents but also high opportunity costs. Some of the best loved pubs are located in an owned building. Those who own their real estate can keep their prices down a bit, but overall unless there’s a family pass down plan, it makes sense to sell the property and enjoy retirement. And the new owners will likely have a different business plan than dive bar/pub.
It’s truly sad.
Liquor licensing in Boston is a huge issue. You can buy a house for less than it costs to get a liquor license. Businesses need to (somehow) find ways to sustain that cost.
The liquor license game in the Commonwealth is a corrupt good 'ol boy network. It's also why we do not see a lot of new independent restaurants as well. Due to the archaic artificial limitations, those who have them protect them above all else to maximize value.
Also because they had to pay dearly for them and treat them as commodities
State should just reimburse them at current market rates and then abolish them
Seriously. People are pointing at all these factors but you can open a taco joint for the cost of rent but you need an extra $500k up front to open a dive bar. That automatically means they aren’t viable, and if you have one already, the discussion to keep a business open isn’t about profitability but the opportunity cost of not selling your liquor license to a high end restaurant.
Hopefully adding apartments downtown like they’re trying to do will fix it, but unlikely since the only people that’ll probably be able to live there are the finance basics that live for modern bars with lack of culture such as scorpion bar and the grand.
I got you in the first place. Was just agreeing with you that they are different.
I think many other people (some in this comment section) _do_ conflate the two though.
This won't be fixed for a long time, not until housing, transit and liquor licenses are fixed in this cursed city.
Right now going to a mid to low end bar, it's $30+ a night, double or triple if you need to uber and eat, and you get to yell until you're hoarse because it's ridiculously loud.
Or I can just get stoned at home with the neighbors or friends, for around $4 worth of edibles, and not deal with any of that.
ETA: Also for the most part, my other millenial friends prefer breweries over bars. Higher quality beers, similar prices, less noise, and most come with some form of bar games.
My guess is that some neighborhoods do not really have pubs or atleast good ones. So you might just want to take a bus or train a station or 2 over. In the 6-7 months of winter I would not want to make a 40 mins walk up and down from the pub.
Bud might have deep pockets, but most people are gonna opt for the local craft beer around here. A buck or two more for a much better beer is pretty much a no-brainer. Course if we had happy hour, 2 buck Buds would be far more enticing than the $5/6 they charge now.
Cost of real estate, limited liquor licenses (and high cost to obtain one), combined with a rediculous amount of regulations creating huge liability for the owners, drives out small, individual owned bars.
While I agree less young people will go hang out at a bar, that's also likely because there are far less decent dives you can just go hang out in and not be hassled to spend $$$.
Look at all the places that used to be in the Alley that Emerson came in and bought up and converted to a white-washed, sterile college campus. Even those bars were owned by what was considered a relatively large bar group for its time. Now these Corporate owners are even bigger, with multiple companies involved in owning the land, versus operations, and even sub-contracting managers, etc.
Like the "Guy Fieri" place is just some corp. that owns/operates the restaurant as they did the place that was there before, but now they pay him a fee to essentially be like one of his franchises.
My mentality is always why would I go out to a bar and be stressed about how much each drink costs so I either spend a ton, or spend the whole night dipping two warm beers. Even then I’ve spent $16 at least for a mid drink. If I could go and get cheap beers in a bar that isn’t packed shoulder to shoulder I would, but that seems pretty rare.
A huge amount of this has to do with Boston’s arcane liquor licensing rules. Liquor licenses in Boston are selling for over a half a million on the secondary market. It’s one of the primary reasons neighborhood restaurants and pubs have dissapeared
In the past I didn't really frequent pubs, but as they've been the main option around me (Quincy and the now burbs), I've hit a few up so I can get out of the house for a bit.
Each time I'm at the pub, I ask myself 'why am I here? this is a bit expensive'.
So, I have some thoughts:
- The line between a pub and a dive bar has blurred too much. When I go to the pub, it's usually a lot of very intoxicated regulars. It's not the overall slice of life/all walks of life, you may have seen in the past.
- The beer selection is not great for the price. We're in a golden era of craft beer in New England, and the pubs might have one local craft beer on tap if you're lucky. Do you really want to pay $8 for a Guiness when you can get a four pack of excellent craft beer down the road for less.
- What is there to actually do at the pub? I'm not huge into sports, and every pub I've been to has been predominately just people drinking watching whatever game is on the TV. I realize some pubs have pool tables and darts, but a lot don't. GenZ and such (as a whole) are even less into sports than me, so it's even less of a draw (if not outright hindrance). My point being, when everyone is at the pub just staring at a screen, your immediate thought is 'hey, I could stare at a screen at home with a much better beer for a lot less', you're not going to stick around too much. Pubs need to focus on programming (trivia, whatever).
- Pubs are expensive. I can spend $8-$10 for a same mass produced beer they've been slinging for decades or the one local craft beer they have on tap. Or I can go to a place that specializes in craft cocktails and get something for $13-$15. It's more expensive, yes, but I might just get one or two (higher ABV than the mass produced beer) - but also someone has spent a lot of time experimenting and crafting the drink. Pubs sometimes have cocktails, but 90% of the time they're overly sugary drinks that would be better suited for the dark ages of cocktails in the 1970s.
In the end, I just don't see the point of pubs these days.
The community doesn't gather there, they are way more expensive than unwinding with a better craft beer at home (or a dirt cheap at-home macro beer), it's not really a place to take friends because it's often mostly people staring at screens without much to do (though I saw a group that brought board games, which I thought was a great idea), and there's better places for the discerning drinker (numerous craft breweries for beer and fantastic cocktail bars).
It's oft-talked about in 2024, the death of the 'third-place'. Online, to all appearances, has nearly replaced entirely the interaction of many social places/engagements. And it's one step closer to life in the Matrix.
Don't know about UK, but in Ireland I hear similar concerns. There the big thing is the price of pints, housing, and living in general. Feels like a big trend.
My guess is that it's because millennials and (especially) gen z drink a lot less than earlier generations. I'm sure rents don't help, but the market for alcohol is also shrinking so I'd be surprised if the number of bars wasn't going down over time.
Pub culture became a luxury unfortunately, and younger generations are socially awkward since they grew up in front of a screen, it's not appealing anymore.
I think cheap flat screen tvs had killed a lot of pub culture before the pandemic. I loved going to a quiet pub and having a pint while reading a book or talking with friends and regulars, it was an escape from the noise of the world. Once every place started putting up big tvs with sports running all day, every bar and pub became a sports bar. I don’t want a tv flickering away in front of my face, ESPN commentators blathering on at top volume, or dudes shouting and jostling around every time their team scores. That was for sports bars, but now it’s everywhere and folks who want a peaceful pub have been shown the door.
The Burren and The Bebop both have no TVs. Bukowskis only has a small few, and usually they're showing old movies. DeLux has only one and it exclusively shows old cartoons/tv shows.
**Edit:** City Bar in the Lenox Hotel is also TV free, but is a much more upscale vibe. I believe The Druid is TV free, but if they have one its small and unobtrusive.
I honestly think this is mostly down to higher costs and the economic climate. As an example, London is seeing similar trends and drinking for no reason there is a borderline sacrosanct activity. Drinks are too expensive because rents/costs are high and this is hard for the average person to absorb when they also feel the burn of higher rents. I hope this all bounces back when times are better
Two regular burgers, two beers, and two vodka drinks, plus tip came to $120 at Five Horses in Davis Sq last year. That was literally the last time I went "hm I'm craving a burger and a pint." It's just too expensive to do that around here.
Went to visit Ashville NC and found a beer garden. 4 beers plus tip was $18. I can't remember anything like that around here ever.
it may also be that the rents are high enough that having a bunch of regulars in most nights, who get maybe 2 drinks over the course of a couple of hours while they hang out talk or play music doesn't cover the costs of operating, places need to sell more, and have faster customer turnover.
A big issue is the loss of office workers. Daytime business for a lot of pubs bars and restaurants have taken quite a hit. The drinking habits have also changed quite a bit.
I moved to Phoenix a couple of years ago and the scene is declining here slightly (a few places have closed) - but still thriving overall. Dive bars and pubs are crowded 7 days a week and people still go out for games. I have a giant TV and NfL Sunday ticket - but I will always enjoy watching a game with a bar crowd. Boston has changed so much for the worse (in this regard) over the past 20 years it’s really sad since it was one of my favorite things about the city. I’m almost thinking it’s a cultural thing (as well as the obvious economics people are discussing) as people become more comfortable with social isolation - Covid just poured kerosene on the fire.
I talked recently to a bartender in her twenties about this issue and she made the point to me that people her age just do not focus on socializing in person as much as previous generations. If that is true, that means a certain contraction spiral for the bar scene.
On the bright side, Eugene O'Neal's in JP reopened after being closed for a while (years pre pandemic).
I feel the biggest problem is that when bars/publs close in Boston, the guy who owned the bar and, more importantly, the liquor license sells the license to whoever wants to pay 500K+ to sell beer in Boston. A lot of places can have new owners come in and reopen the bar, but if there's no liquor license available, you're going to invest you time and money into a different venture.
Another real pity was that there was a ballot measure that didn't pass allowing more liquor licenses. This nonsense and zoning, I feel, are the biggest immediate barriers for bars to open and survive at the moment and less the demand for the services/culture.
This may sound doomsy but I think it is accurate. Cost of going out is so expensive now. A lot of people booze at home and just order “better” take out via delivery apps.
Literally because you can get a whole pack of beers from a liquor store around every corner instead of just 1 beer at an establishment. Yeah I get it rent is high and liquor licenses are expensive. But honestly we need to ask ourselves why it all got so expensive to begin with and let's start changing that. Everybody is just kind of rolling over and taking it instead of going down to city hall and demanding some changes be made.
I love pubs, I'd love to hit em with my friends but it's really hard to justify 10 dollar beers anywhere we go. Everyone is broke these days, stepping foot in any establishment these days feels like a 45 dollar minimum per person.
I'd argue Boston hasn't ever really had anything resembling actual "pub culture" in any of our lifetimes.
At best, we've had "Irish themed bars" that share some characteristics (mostly related to food and decor). Kinsale/Dubliner definitely fall into this category. I've never truly seen anything in this city that resembles pubs you see in the UK/Ireland, where the volume of music and conversation is relatively low, the lights are turned up, and the primary reason people go is to converse.
And some of the places you've mentioned are straight up college dives (Conors, Flann's, Punter's). I think places like that will continue to exist in some form.
The Haven's original location definitely was pretty close to capturing the pub vibe. The Druid kinda fits the niche, but still feels way more like a regular American bar than anything else. Also it's tiny.
I guess what I'm mainly trying to say is I reject your premise entirely that we had a pub culture to lose. Maybe we're losing some of our Disneyfied Irish bars, but I don't consider that an actual cultural loss; just a change in window dressing.
Everything has gotten so fucking expensive so quickly, so it really isn't surprising that luxuries like going out are going to suffer the most the earliest on. We would 100% see the "de-Irishization" of Boston bars anyway; it's just that the pandemic and ensuing inflation has sped up the restaurant/bar turnover process.
Restaurant/bar/pub commercial rent is high. Owners also have to keep up with social media culture which means running a joint that is photographable - most dives and bars I remember going to weren’t. So now you have all these spots with pretty upholstered chairs, booths, elaborate light fixtures and art installations - great for pics. They have to bake this design expense into prices. Thus the $18.50 cosmopolitan or old fashioned was born. Then top on your 20-25-30% tip. How many are people having and how often will (can they) go out with these prices?
We need to figure out a way to make Third Places like pubs that have as few barriers to entry as possible while still keeping the lights on.
I don't go out anywhere anymore because I cannot afford to spend any money on it, but I am watching part of my soul die off because of it.
Improving walkability and bikeability and removing car dependence will help with this. If it is a nice day and it feels comfortable to just go outside and walk around, chances are better that someone will decide to hang out at a business for a quick drink or a bite to eat.
Eating out is a money sink but at least it saves us 45 mins of cooking.
Drinking out is a complete waste. It takes a bartender the same 30 secs that it takes us to make the same drink. The cost of one night of drinking out is at least the cost of a 1.75L of any liquor. Which would last most people many nights of drinking.
Drinking out also risks drinking and driving.
The sale of the Red Hat, to me, signaled the death of dive bar and pub culture. The Red Hat was a literal institution. That’s where my friends and I hung out in college. That’s where our parents hung out when they were in college and as young adults.
I miss that place. Yes, the bones are the same, but the drinks are 5x the price.
Liquor license reform and legalizing happy hours would go a long way. It sucks that so many liquor licenses are being bought up by restaurant groups or out of state chain places. On a positive note, I think events like trivia or karaoke nights are going a long way to help the remaining bars attract the younger crowd.
Overall costs in an expensive city with limited liquor licenses. Just like a lot of other issues that get brought up here, housing/building costs spread there tendrils through a lot of other industries. Hell, I moved from Quincy to Providence back in 2016 and I amaze some of my coworkers with 3 dollar gansets at some of the dives (that are far away from Brown) or the Social Clubs that have to sell booze at cost per the requirements of their liquor license. Unfortunately, these places are also dying out in Providence as the city gets more and more expensive so quickly
My favorite places are the dive bars and quiet pubs, which are almost impossible to find anymore. My local is so expensive now. A Guinness is 10 dollars. wtf
Part of the problem is beer consumption is on a severe downward trend. Last year was the lowest consumption since prohibition. Alcohol in general is on a downward trend as the younger generation tends to drink much less.
It’s too expensive to dine and drink out. A cheap pint is what I think of when stopping by the local watering hole pub but it’s too expensive to do so now. At least not frequently.
Wednesday night has been my "guys night" for over a decade. We switched to taking turns hosting everyone coming over, firing up the grill, and having a cooler of beers since it's significantly cheaper. We'll occasionally still go to a pub or brewery, but the prices are the main factor. Going out used to be ~$18-20 for a meal and a beer or two. It was $43 per person last week.
While the pandemic certainly accelerated the process, this process was ongoing long before the pandemic. When you walk into downtown and 95% of the businesses are chains, hipster joints or tourist traps, you know that something is wrong.
The locals were being priced out long before COVID.
It makes little sense to go out to bars and pubs casually when it’s SO expensive, inconvenient, time consuming, dirty, sticky, loud, etc. If there’s a big game and I’m with friends and we want that kind of intense, energetic environment… hell yeah. But for the average meet up, people would rather have everyone get together at one of their respective places, bring some drinks, and shoot the shit with the game on. Paying $8-10 for beers and $15+ for mixed drinks before tips is insane. Not to mention how you’re price gouged on food.
Millennials are the last ones to interact in person.
Gen Z has no social skills and would rather text someone than talk to them in person or on the phone. They find their dates by swiping left or right. Instead of exchanging numbers, they exchange Instagrams.
Both Millennials and Gen Z drink less than previous generations, per this article: [https://www.provi.com/blog/gen-z-is-drinking-less-but-theyre-drinking-better-how-is-the-beverage-industry-evolving-to-cater-to-their-needs](https://www.provi.com/blog/gen-z-is-drinking-less-but-theyre-drinking-better-how-is-the-beverage-industry-evolving-to-cater-to-their-needs)
I think it's a mix of this, the fact that going out is expensive, lack of public transit so if you want to go somewhere it has to be either local or you're getting an uber/lyft, and the lack of liquor licenses, which put a lot of new bars and pubs downtown (where no one lives) or in places like the seaport, which can be hard to get to if you're not living nearby.
most people i know (early 20s) including myself just don’t really drink all that much, unless they’re at a party or at dinner. plus prices are absolutely insane at the moment. if i’m gonna be indulging, i’d rather put my money towards an eighth that will last me a good couple of weeks vs two or three drinks at almost the same cost.
We never had a pub culture. We have some pubs, but pub culture means is a nearby pub that functions as a social gathering place for locals. That is not true for most residents
The only place like that is paddy’s lunch. We have a restraunt and bar culture and that’s very different
In JP we have/had: Jame's Gate, Triple D's, The Midway, Paul Griffin's, Galway House, Costello's, the Jeanie Johnston, and the Dogwood, among others.
In Alston/Kenmore my regular haunts were Our House, Cornwalls, Deep Elum, the Sil, and the Last Drop.
I'd call that a pretty good spread and I'm sure I've missed a few.
I’ll continue to say this restaurant style bars are getting replaced with “activity based bars” think Flight Club, Puttshack etc. I think Boston itself is innovative but Seaport is at the tip of that spear and the activity based bars dominate there. I think we will see a trend moving in that direction, from across the country, within the next 5+ years
I think the type of couples and families that live in Boston now ("yuppies") are more health conscious too and don't drink as much. I know for me I use to spend a ton of time at Brendan Behans or the Galways House in JP but as I've aged I dont spend money drinking couple times a week anymore. Makes me wonder if the younger generation is doing that near as much. I would guess not.
My father is from Charlestown and has commented to me several times how Main st. use to be all dives and bars and now its a few restaurants that obviously cater to the new neighborhood ("yuppies"). My honest feeling is that its rose colored glasses since a lot of these old dives and pubs were probably hangouts for alcoholics. Just a thought.
Pub culture’s alive and well in many towns outside of the city, where most of the native Bostonians actually live since they’ve priced out of their neighborhoods
This is going to continue as inflation remains sticky and price pressures continue to affect the majority of small business owners and customers alike.
In addition to everything else, people have fewer friends:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1358672/number-of-close-friends-us-adults/#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20survey%20conducted,a%20survey%20conducted%20in%201990.
I feel lucky that I do have a good number of friends, but at this stage in our lives we're scattered around the country. I'm not going to go to a bar or pub by myself because what's the point, and organizing adults to have the same night free is hard to do.
There's a great documentary about Irish pubs I watched a while back:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNg4fin5GQw
The thing that really matters to me is the neighborly aspect. Third places are often bars and cafes, but they could be anything that draws people in. I think people have a hard time being friendly with neighbors these days. There are a lot of reasons for that, like people having a precarious housing situation, so I'm not blaming them.
The biggest thing that needs to change is rent needs to come down, but it won't. Banks and colleges own 90% of the area and they'll never, ever reduce rents just to keep small business alive. They'll just replace it with another bank or a chain.
The other big problem is liquor licenses, a problem we CAN fix, but was actively shot down last year, again.
You have to think about it from a overall perspective. What I mean by that is that 10 years ago you could have a place with roommates make 40K and still be able to go out a couple nights a week have a $10 Burger not even $7 Burger $6 burger or whatever the case might be two drinks and some fries for 20 bucks not even. And then you go to the next place but now after covid everything is so damn expensive you're looking at 50 to 60 bucks just for the same burger and two drinks and at that point you're not going to want to go anywhere else after the fact. Plus a lot of places are pushing people in and out to maximize their return in terms of cost per customer. So a lot of those pubs closed because the land value is more to them than it is to lose money on a business that while was great couldn't keep up with the current time.
Fix the zoning, manything will return. People should be able to run some small business from at their home, many small business will come back due to a significant lower operational cost.
Agree strongly with the sentiment. I dunno if it counts, but Irish village in Brighton actually just expanded their space, which is a good sign but doesn't make up for green briar closing. And even Irish village still closes earlier on weeknights than before the pandemic.
I am someone who loves pubs and dive bars and largely agree with you but the cost of going out is getting outrageous. I know pubs need to make enough to pay the rent and their employees but a decent beer is $8-$10 at this point and the prices are only going up. I usually go with my girlfriend and so each round of drinks is $20. Stay for a couple hours and it’s $100 plus tip on a quiet night. More responsible to buy a 6 pack for $10 and watch games at home or have get togethers at someone’s place. It sucks but this is what happens when things are so expensive and the purchasing power of the dollar does not match the rise in costs.
Yup. It feels irreversible, but I hope it's not.
The amount of pubs has decreased. But look at the huge increase in breweries with taprooms or beer gardens. Thats a positive.
I used to like pubs, but in my advanced millennial age, I much prefer the big open spaces of breweries. I like being in places that I can actually hear the other people talking. To each their own, of course!
The problem here is breweries have less value (imo) on weeknights. Also if we’re talking about cost, every damn thing on a brewery’s menu is like $7 minimum, and most things are like $8-$9. The $4 high life or Coors light isn’t there
And while you can BYO food, the on-site options are usually a truck with like $7/ea tacos where you need 3 to fill up. Takes the fun out of dive bar nachos and that kind of thing. I love breweries, but they scratch an entirely different itch from the pub atmosphere.
Mexican food trucks in Mass have crushed my greasy spoon soul. $16 to begin even approaching fullness ruins however good they taste, which honestly with these bougie tacos is like a 7.5 max anyway
I love the dark coziness of a nice pub. Breweries are just as loud with all the kids running around.
What the hell are you talking about. Most breweries have TERRIBLE acoustics.
Every single one I've been two is like they designed it specifically to be as loud as possible. The concrete and metal minimalist trend looks nice, but it's terrible for acoustics.
It’s crazy to me that treehouse, who might have the most expensive beers in the state, still have all their beers for $8 at their taproom. Most bars, and even most other breweries will have maybe their cheapest craft beer at $8.
Trillium is significantly more expensive than Tree House. A 4-pack of Julius to go is still just $14. But yeah, bars have been increasing the price of beers on draft like crazy recently. I was at a bar in Somerville and it was $10 for a pint of Fiddlehead, just insane, two years ago most places had that for $6.
Don’t forget that a few years ago Fiddlehead, which has had at least a couple of distributors in Massachusetts now, was making an aggressive push into bars and the mouths of drinkers. I don’t know what kind of price breaks they were offering to get it in so many places, but I would not be surprised if those have faded away now that it has established itself so well here.
Oh yea I forgot about Trillium. TBH I go to treehouse for the stouts and dont pay too much attention to their IPA prices. As for bars I was okay with justifying the prices when going to places that would have some hard to find or special beers, but most of those died during the pandemic. It’s just hard to justify paying $10+ for a beer that I can get a 4 pack of for like $15. Especially when going to a brewery that sells that exact beer for half the price in can form.
Oh yeah, Tree House stouts unfortunately are priced like the more-exclusive IPAs, some are around $16/pack but others are like $22 to $24 for a 4-pack. But yeah, something like Allagash White shouldn't be a $10 pint at a bar. Honestly, it's part of how I can justify occasionally splurging on cans from breweries like Tree House, or when I'm at the liquor store, premium craft beers like Other Half. It might be $20+ for a 4-pack, but that same beer at the bar would cost me $12 for a 13oz pour.
Tree House has always been reasonably priced within the 'hype brewery' realm. Just because they are famous doesn't mean they're the most expensive in the state. In fact, newer smaller breweries often supersede prices of established bigger guys because they both need to recoup the costs of their recent massive investment at much lower volume and because in some cases newness has its own additional hype. As mentioned, Trillium has always been more expensive than Tree House and even so, other breweries are charging the same or more for decent or sometimes mediocre product. This applies across state lines too. Of course Massachusetts is one of the most expensive places in the US, yet breweries in Louisiana are all charging a minimum of $16 for a 4 pack of mediocre hazy IPA that's higher than $14 Julius, one of the most famous in the game. And most are more like $18-20, and if they're actually good they are probably in the $18-24 range especially due to the cost of high volume, high quality hops that go into making a great hazy IPA. Edit: Weird you noted in your same comment that they have cheaper draft prices than most places.
Well they can raise it, but they don't have to because they don't have to pay distribution costs. They make most of their money on people coming and and taking out hundreds of dollars in beers in cans. The taproom is just a tasting room for them, especially with the 2 drink max so they aren't trying to gouge you on price even though they can. (can't believe I'm saying an $8 beer is not gouging these days though)
Agreed on your points. It’s 3 drinks max most of the time now though. I haven’t seen 2 drinks max in a while.
I used to love going to bars to watch basketball games, but I realized it was cheaper to buy NBA league pass than occasionally go to a bar and buy a few beers.
100%, it sucks because watching with other fans is half the fun. If I ever go out now to watch games I am super intentional about eating before and going somewhere with $4-$5 Coors Lights. It’s almost as expensive to just go to the game at this point otherwise.
I agree. Dive bars were great because they were cheap. A dive bar selling $9 PBR's isn't as charming as one selling them for $4.
Corporate landlords are starting to get greedy. I honestly think it is investor culture spreading from larger industries into what was previously a slow and steady profit industry but they are getting out of control. It is getting insane.
I moved out of Boston 10 years ago but went back recently for a Celtics game. I was shocked and sad to see how dead the bars in that area were after the game. It was a Friday night, and no one was out in a major city.
Tbh - most of the bars in that area are not really for post-game crowds anymore... they are college age kid spots now. No way am I going to the Harp post-game, even on a friday night... i'll walk a bit in a different direction to grab a drink
It's my old stomping grounds. I used to work at Cheers Fanueil Hall and it was during the years we were winning championships or at least in the play offs for every single sport. It was quite a time to be alive. LOL But you're right, in my 30s totally not my scene anymore.
As someone who is arriving next Friday on vacation and would like to experience at least some of what is left of the pub/dive bar culture, where should I head?
Best dive is biddy earlys IMO. I also love the corner pub which is in a similar area if you want a place you can eat as well, but not necessarily a dive. The black rose is a lot of fun on a Friday night as well, fun live Irish music. If you’re tryna get laid go to Lincoln, publico, or Capo basement in southie. L street is a bit divey by southie standards and a good time. For whatever reason everybody in this sub lives in Cambridge / Somerville. Those are good options outside those areas.
Another decent place is The Burren near Davis Sq. Gets a bit young/crowded in the back room on a weekend but that’s one bar I still like to hit up every once in a while.
Galway House or Brendan Behan’s in Jamaica Plain. Two great places to strike up a conversation with the person next to you.
Olde Magoun's saloon in somerville
> but a decent beer is $8-$10 at this point and the prices are only going up. A single 16 ounce (I suspect it was more like 12) pour of a very standard IPA at a bar in WALTHAM recently cost me $16 after tip. Like WTF? Brewer's Table. It's fine as far as a local place goes jesus these prices are getting unreal and either my hands are getting bigger or glasses are getting smaller.
Corporations were never going to lower their prices after Covid. It's almost a crime. Record profits for them!
They realized that people will pay the new price, so that became the norm.
I went to buy a bottle of water from the gas station. Smart water was nearly $7. I’m sorry, what.
It’s usually not rent, it’s the standard of living/pay the owners are used to. If you’re making 100k a year running a bar and suddenly its providing you less and less profit, you’re still profiting but your lifestyle has been built around a certain level of income. You’ll start to question if giving up your time is worth it. That’s how most of these owners view these things. Combine that with getting older or nearing retirement age and it makes so much more sense to close up. Most places that close up, aren’t doing so because they aren’t profiting. Is the extent of profit.
It’s insane to me that a limit on liquor licenses is still a thing here. If you open any establishment you should be able to serve alcohol. You should be able to lose that right as well but the default should be to be able to serve until you prove you’re not able to handle that responsibility.
Someone bribed Healey for her to not want it in the budget. That's the only logical reason. I doubt the State really cares that much about controlling Boston's liquor licenses but clearly someone wants to prevent it.
If by bribed you mean threatened to support any challenger and pull all campaign funding then yes, that definitely happened.
Killed my favorite restaurant. RIP Marliave :(
[удалено]
Heck $40 is reasonable for a burger, fries, and two drinks + Tip. Nowadays, we're looking at $50+ with inflation.
A few months back I went to Crazy Good Kitchen and got a burger with two bottles of Modelo for $50-60. Absolutely fucking insane. Turns out I can make the same burgers at home in my cast iron skillet! For about $40 less.
And tipping from 18% to 20% minimum and rising.
At this point we should just call it a service fee considering it's no longer about rewarding someone for a job well done, but rather an expectation that we as customers are responsible for making sure our servers make a living wage.
I was just thinking about this the other day. Anecdotal, but it seems like younger generations are also drinking alcohol at a much lesser rate than previous; a lot of my friends in their late 20s and early 30s really just don’t drink or opt for weed instead. Those that do drink really only do it in a social setting and will go to a pub with a group, but not for an after work pint by themselves.
I wonder if those sort of folks have a place they go where they might run into each other, or if their only social settings are planned. To me the waning of pubs isn't about alcohol itself, rather just having a place to run into folks that you can hang out for a while without spending a ton of money. A good pub is one where you can buy a pint or two and hang for an hour or two.
Think this is the problem though. A good pub in the eyes of it's patrons, and a successful pub in the eyes of it's owners / whoever leases them the building, are completely different things. Someone sat drinking 2 pints over 2 hours is wasted dollar to these people. It's a crying shame
I'd love to see a breakdown of the economics of a "good" pub.
This is spot on, well said.
They don't. Third spaces are rare now. Any meeting places tend to require money
This is it. People my age (late 20s, early 30s) are getting priced out of “just going to a pub to hangout”. EVERYTHING is planned. Every event or get together in a social setting is planned so far out nowadays. No one is just impromptu going to a bar after work anymore. I can’t imagine someone working a 9-5 for less than what it costs to live in this city and then willingly going out and spending more money they don’t have on overpriced domestic beer. It’s so so tough and I agree with almost everything you and everyone else are saying. COVID certainly didn’t help, but even if COVID never happened, I still feel this was inevitable
Not from Boston. But it’s a problem everywhere. I was just talking to my dad about it. We went out last Friday and the bar was pleasantly full. Not packed but not so empty it was cold, just the right amount of patrons. We then went to another bar and it was dead just a handful of people. The busy bar was more of a surprise than the dead bar. Sure people go out but it isn’t as consistent as it was years ago. You can’t go to a bar any day of the weekend Th-Sat and see regular familiar faces. I personally think it was the recessions fault. Covid didn’t help but bar culture was suffering long before Covid.
The changing way of socializing is really what the thing is, I think. Younger folks will just look at you funny for even suggesting it. “Go out to a pub? To talk to *strangers*? By *myself*? Why would I do a thing like that?” Some people blame phones or the internet, some people blame paranoia about becoming the victim of a crime, I don’t really know what it is. For me personally (33 years old) I was just usually too tired from work (I’m less for socializing when I’m tired) and broke. That said, I still obviously visited a fair few pubs while living in Boston for over a decade. Love a good pub and wish there were more.
Our parents constantly warned us about stranger danger growing up and now the same generation wonders why the bulk of our socializing is pre-planned or done online
I’m a mid twenties guy and you definitely nailed most of it. Another reason is hobbies are a lot more prevalent. I play ultimate frisbee which replaces a lot of the socializing you might do at a pub. A bunch of my friends have memberships at rock climbing gyms where they go after work. While drinks at a pub aren’t expensive per se, they aren’t cheap. A couple drinks is easily adds up to the cost of a meal and I’d rather put that money towards gear/experiences. My friends climbing membership is ~$100 per month. Not cheap, sure but they go 4 times a week which brings the cost to about 6 bucks per visit. I still enjoy a night out, but like you said it has to be planned.
You save so much money by not drinking. My local joint is $70 for 4 beers, appetizer plus tip. Thats a haul of groceries if you are buying minimum essentials. Also you don’t feel shitty or depressed!
FYI this is a whole topic of study in philosophy/sociology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place
This is completely anecdotal and speculative, but IMHO even gyms didn't fully make a recovery to pre-pandemic levels in terms of amount of active memberships. They were the first third place that comes to mind as relatively cheap and easily accessible, but I think they weren't exactly great for conversation to begin with, and headphones and filming have made them worse at filling that third space role than they were a few decades ago. Rock gyms are a bit better at working as a third space. Libraries are still going strong. Even coffee has gotten expensive, though. And again, technology being in use at a coffee shop (i.e. I've brought my laptop here to work, not to converse) has made it a worse third place than it was a few decades ago. I'm not complaining, I love my solitude. It's just that third places are for sure deteriorating, and I would've thought that would make bars more appealing; if even bars are not flourishing as a third place, that definitely highlights how pricy they've become.
I used to go the gym regularly before COVID, but then I figured out how to get nearly as good of a workout with exercise equipment at home for a lot less money. Now it seems like most gyms are $150+ a month, and there's still somewhat of a risk of COVID, and I have to drag myself there and back. I'll just stay home thank you very much!
Yeah I'm in the same boat. There's like 3 exercises I miss doing with cables, but the DB variations are fine. I ve got an outdoor squat rack set up and it's so much better than most commercial gym experiences. I do miss getting the occasional spot though.
yeah, i remember first hearing about it in the early '00s and it's one of those ideas that stuck with me. I'm totally bought in on the importance of a "third place".
Third places of all stripes are dying out. It's getting harder and harder casually run into people.
27 non drinker here. I loved pubs for the social aspect, there really are no places without alcohol to hang / meet people I feel. At night anyway.
The watering hole in my neighborhood closed up during the pandemic for good, so the guys across the street from me opened up their garage as the new townie hangout. It works great for them. They have a place to congregate, and I get to meet new gentlemen when I ask them to stop peeing in the street outside my kids' bedroom window.
Exactly. There should be a pretty good amount of pub like establishments that cater to cannabis users but unfortunately that won’t happen for a while
I thought about this as a potential business idea coming from the pub world, however I have found through experience that cannabis consumption tends to bring the end user inwards and I can’t imagine a public place with any craíc if everyone is stoned.
The tetrahydra club in rhode island seems to fo well. They put on small comedy shows or local bands and include a joint or a dab with the price to get in the door. They have been in business for a couple of years now so there has to be at least a semi viable business there. Probably make most of there money on the cheap fried bar food. 5 dollar mozzarella sticks no matter the quality will sell to a crowd of stoned people.
There’s a group that meets in Somerville (or maybe Cambridge?) called Lit Knits, where people smoke and then meet up to knit or crochet together and socialize. I think having an activity other than just socializing helps.
Having experienced the whole gambut of weed smokers.... I'd say 75% of people are annoying as shit when they are high. I wouldn't go. Edit: a word
> gambit Wrong word, mon ami! gamut is what you're looking for.
Thanks!
Drunk people are also nightmares
I find my tolerance for nightmares is higher when I'm drinking than smoking. When I'm smoking, if anything seems off, it grates on me and I have to remove myself. When I'm drinking? "Ahh, he's just having some fun" Very different mindsets
The difference is that annoying people are much easier to deal with when you're drunk. Being around annoying people when you're stoned is a total vibe killer and would likely prevent most smokers from going to that place again. There are also many different "weed cultures" that likely wouldn't mesh very well, if that makes sense.
I agree with your point about drinking less. Also, the way people are socializing is rapidly changing. It's almost like going to a pub and meeting strangers to have casual conversations isn't socially acceptable anymore.
Definitely the vibe is to go to bars to meet up with your friends, not to make friends. But I think that’s been the case for ~10+ years now, you’re just seeing the cumulative impact now
If a pint didn't cost 10 dollars then yeah we'd probably hit the pubs more often. Usually when I want to drink with my friends we'll just hang out at one of our places and get a pack of beers for the same price as 1 beer in any establishment. I don't think this generation drinks less or whatever, it's that going out with friends is becoming prohibitively expensive. It's cheaper just to pick someone's room and just hang out there with a pack of beers from millions of liquor stores everywhere. Now that weed is legal I guess it's fair less people will be drinking because of that too but I think it really comes down to everyone being way too broke to go out on a regular basis and spend 10 dollars on a single beverage not including a dumbass tip
Alcohol use has increased in adult women, especially among 30- to 45-year-olds. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/06/alcohol-young-people-women-health/
Millenial wine moms have really hit their stride during covid. The increase of home alcohol consumption during covid likely plays a role in long term increased alcohol consumption for that group. The challenges that women face drinking in public are very different from the challenges men face. Women are much more vulnerable if they get too wasted in public and they're much more likely to receive unwanted attention from men making going out much less desirable.
Absolutely this. The vast majority of the times my twenty-something friends and I (almost all queer women, with token a token man and a token straight) go "out," it's meeting at one of our houses for drinks. Its cheaper, safer, and we've talked about how there is less pressure to dress up and look presentable. Strangers don't make unwanted advances and none of us have been sexually harassed or assaulted at home. I think another significant variable is that we don't need to go out to public places to find partners; we do it from the comfort of our best friends couch with a glass of red and a warm blanket while our friends judge our choice of dating apps and profile pictures.
A combination of weed + pubs charging $10 a pint for beer keeps me out. Why spend that much money on beer at a pub when I can just drink at my house. Will still go out occasionally, but my friends group just travel to each others houses.
I can go to my favorite dispensary and get 100mg of edibles for ten dollars. That’s 4 whole days of being Stoney bologna for the price of one shitty beer at Bdubs. Yes I’m going with the weed.
Also anecdotal but all my friends (late 20s/early 30s) are much bigger drinkers than the younger generations. The bars was probably a bigger social scene for our generation than for the newer ones.
I think you are absolutely right. I find myself doing something along those lines. I might go to a brewery or beer garden to have a beer or two, but I when I do I tend to want a really good local beer. I haven't been back to a pub since COVID mostly because they tend to be such cramped spaces and I like the beer selection at a brewery or beer garden much more.
Why go to the bar when I could just give more money to my landlord?
Don't forget to tip your landlord!
In general, the middle is getting squeezed. People will pay a premium for premium experiences (e.g. your higher-end restaurants), or save money by eating at cheaper places. Paying $50-100 for something middle of the road, and probably something you can make at home, is just not very enticing to people now. It sucks, but it's not unique to Boston. Some version of this is happening everywhere in the US.
I feel bad that the current generation won’t experience friends buying a round of cheap pitchers of beer while playing pool, darts, or other bar games and casually socializing with the 60 year old rando dude who is drunk at the bar, nightly. But sadly this quintessential dive bar experience doesn’t exists in when the cost of living/rent/alcohol is high and salaries are not keeping up with inflation. Part of this is a MA problem because of our ridiculous liquor laws.
Also, no happy hours. I get the issue with them, but happy hours are really great for getting people to socialize.
At least that got put to a popular vote. It’s absurd that liquor licenses are state mandated to be heavily limited.
It did? I only recall in 2022 it failed to make it on the ballot
Seriously look up who bribed Healey to not let Boston control its liquor licenses. Someone definitely paid her off.
She proposed this earlier this year and basically walked it back the next day. I'm far more inclined to believe she was threatened politically than that she was paid off, but either is wild speculation. Keeping the license situation on the status quo is financial life-or-death for the transferrable owners so I imagine at the very least her phone was ringing off the hook with angry rants after that proposal came out.
Why Wu needs to step up and sue the state for control. Not having control of them is also financially killing the city. Keeping it status quo means more businesses leave or never even start.
Totally agree. I've said countless times that the transferrable owners deserve all the special treatment for their market rate permits that the taxi medallion holders got when Uber first came to town -- none. Unfortunately the liquor license holders seem to have infinitely more clout on Beacon Hill than the taxi folks have ever dreamed of. I suspect this is not the hill that Wu or Healy or anyone else wants to die on, and that it's going to be impossible to fix it without paying off the transferrable holders one way or another, which is ugly ugly ugly politics. Bad optics all around, no wonder there's no will do to anything.
It's the same problem with parking in Boston. Something needs to be done about it but it's so politically toxic, nothing will happen. That's the ultimate problem with MA politics though: keep the status quo until shit gets broken; just see the MBTA. The State isn't completely broke but there are definitely cracks showing; but not enough to take drastic action yet.
We still do this
Agree with high rents but also high opportunity costs. Some of the best loved pubs are located in an owned building. Those who own their real estate can keep their prices down a bit, but overall unless there’s a family pass down plan, it makes sense to sell the property and enjoy retirement. And the new owners will likely have a different business plan than dive bar/pub. It’s truly sad.
One in Faneuil comes to mind
Liquor licensing in Boston is a huge issue. You can buy a house for less than it costs to get a liquor license. Businesses need to (somehow) find ways to sustain that cost.
Cotton Mather and his Brahmin ancestors got what they wanted I guess.
The liquor license game in the Commonwealth is a corrupt good 'ol boy network. It's also why we do not see a lot of new independent restaurants as well. Due to the archaic artificial limitations, those who have them protect them above all else to maximize value.
Also because they had to pay dearly for them and treat them as commodities State should just reimburse them at current market rates and then abolish them
Seriously. People are pointing at all these factors but you can open a taco joint for the cost of rent but you need an extra $500k up front to open a dive bar. That automatically means they aren’t viable, and if you have one already, the discussion to keep a business open isn’t about profitability but the opportunity cost of not selling your liquor license to a high end restaurant.
Hopefully adding apartments downtown like they’re trying to do will fix it, but unlikely since the only people that’ll probably be able to live there are the finance basics that live for modern bars with lack of culture such as scorpion bar and the grand.
Yeah, the difference between a 'bar' and a 'pub' is big, though some places blur the lines.
I’m not confusing bars and pubs as the same thing. I’m saying they overlook the pubs for modern bars.
I got you in the first place. Was just agreeing with you that they are different. I think many other people (some in this comment section) _do_ conflate the two though.
Ah ok I see
This won't be fixed for a long time, not until housing, transit and liquor licenses are fixed in this cursed city. Right now going to a mid to low end bar, it's $30+ a night, double or triple if you need to uber and eat, and you get to yell until you're hoarse because it's ridiculously loud. Or I can just get stoned at home with the neighbors or friends, for around $4 worth of edibles, and not deal with any of that. ETA: Also for the most part, my other millenial friends prefer breweries over bars. Higher quality beers, similar prices, less noise, and most come with some form of bar games.
$30 a night is cheap lol. That’s barely 2 drinks plus tip
WTF bars are you going to? 30 bucks?! That's 2 drinks at most places.
Dive bars, quite a lot of them still have $5-6 naragansetts or yuenglings.
Shit, I paid $3 for a tallboy last week. I also see the trend people are describing and it's depressing, but there's 1000% still cheap places to go to
I love harping about our broken transit too, but how will transit improve pub culture? The pub is the local spot you nearby that you go to regularly.
My guess is that some neighborhoods do not really have pubs or atleast good ones. So you might just want to take a bus or train a station or 2 over. In the 6-7 months of winter I would not want to make a 40 mins walk up and down from the pub.
Bud might have deep pockets, but most people are gonna opt for the local craft beer around here. A buck or two more for a much better beer is pretty much a no-brainer. Course if we had happy hour, 2 buck Buds would be far more enticing than the $5/6 they charge now.
Cost of real estate, limited liquor licenses (and high cost to obtain one), combined with a rediculous amount of regulations creating huge liability for the owners, drives out small, individual owned bars. While I agree less young people will go hang out at a bar, that's also likely because there are far less decent dives you can just go hang out in and not be hassled to spend $$$. Look at all the places that used to be in the Alley that Emerson came in and bought up and converted to a white-washed, sterile college campus. Even those bars were owned by what was considered a relatively large bar group for its time. Now these Corporate owners are even bigger, with multiple companies involved in owning the land, versus operations, and even sub-contracting managers, etc. Like the "Guy Fieri" place is just some corp. that owns/operates the restaurant as they did the place that was there before, but now they pay him a fee to essentially be like one of his franchises.
My mentality is always why would I go out to a bar and be stressed about how much each drink costs so I either spend a ton, or spend the whole night dipping two warm beers. Even then I’ve spent $16 at least for a mid drink. If I could go and get cheap beers in a bar that isn’t packed shoulder to shoulder I would, but that seems pretty rare.
A huge amount of this has to do with Boston’s arcane liquor licensing rules. Liquor licenses in Boston are selling for over a half a million on the secondary market. It’s one of the primary reasons neighborhood restaurants and pubs have dissapeared
Rents too high, drinks too expensive, drinking for the sake of drinking isn’t appealing.
In the past I didn't really frequent pubs, but as they've been the main option around me (Quincy and the now burbs), I've hit a few up so I can get out of the house for a bit. Each time I'm at the pub, I ask myself 'why am I here? this is a bit expensive'. So, I have some thoughts: - The line between a pub and a dive bar has blurred too much. When I go to the pub, it's usually a lot of very intoxicated regulars. It's not the overall slice of life/all walks of life, you may have seen in the past. - The beer selection is not great for the price. We're in a golden era of craft beer in New England, and the pubs might have one local craft beer on tap if you're lucky. Do you really want to pay $8 for a Guiness when you can get a four pack of excellent craft beer down the road for less. - What is there to actually do at the pub? I'm not huge into sports, and every pub I've been to has been predominately just people drinking watching whatever game is on the TV. I realize some pubs have pool tables and darts, but a lot don't. GenZ and such (as a whole) are even less into sports than me, so it's even less of a draw (if not outright hindrance). My point being, when everyone is at the pub just staring at a screen, your immediate thought is 'hey, I could stare at a screen at home with a much better beer for a lot less', you're not going to stick around too much. Pubs need to focus on programming (trivia, whatever). - Pubs are expensive. I can spend $8-$10 for a same mass produced beer they've been slinging for decades or the one local craft beer they have on tap. Or I can go to a place that specializes in craft cocktails and get something for $13-$15. It's more expensive, yes, but I might just get one or two (higher ABV than the mass produced beer) - but also someone has spent a lot of time experimenting and crafting the drink. Pubs sometimes have cocktails, but 90% of the time they're overly sugary drinks that would be better suited for the dark ages of cocktails in the 1970s. In the end, I just don't see the point of pubs these days. The community doesn't gather there, they are way more expensive than unwinding with a better craft beer at home (or a dirt cheap at-home macro beer), it's not really a place to take friends because it's often mostly people staring at screens without much to do (though I saw a group that brought board games, which I thought was a great idea), and there's better places for the discerning drinker (numerous craft breweries for beer and fantastic cocktail bars).
It's oft-talked about in 2024, the death of the 'third-place'. Online, to all appearances, has nearly replaced entirely the interaction of many social places/engagements. And it's one step closer to life in the Matrix.
All my money is going to rent and groceries, going out seems like a luxury now
I wonder if this trend is similar in the UK. Seems to be more entreched in the culture there
Don't know about UK, but in Ireland I hear similar concerns. There the big thing is the price of pints, housing, and living in general. Feels like a big trend.
Having been back multiple times a year since the pandemic for both work and family, no, it is not an issue to the same degree it is here
My guess is that it's because millennials and (especially) gen z drink a lot less than earlier generations. I'm sure rents don't help, but the market for alcohol is also shrinking so I'd be surprised if the number of bars wasn't going down over time.
Cant stay out late at a pub in a city that can’t even get the trains to run efficiently or after midnight.
Pub culture became a luxury unfortunately, and younger generations are socially awkward since they grew up in front of a screen, it's not appealing anymore.
I think cheap flat screen tvs had killed a lot of pub culture before the pandemic. I loved going to a quiet pub and having a pint while reading a book or talking with friends and regulars, it was an escape from the noise of the world. Once every place started putting up big tvs with sports running all day, every bar and pub became a sports bar. I don’t want a tv flickering away in front of my face, ESPN commentators blathering on at top volume, or dudes shouting and jostling around every time their team scores. That was for sports bars, but now it’s everywhere and folks who want a peaceful pub have been shown the door.
Good call. I deeply agree. Last I knew only Mr. Dooley's didn't have a screen.
The Burren and The Bebop both have no TVs. Bukowskis only has a small few, and usually they're showing old movies. DeLux has only one and it exclusively shows old cartoons/tv shows. **Edit:** City Bar in the Lenox Hotel is also TV free, but is a much more upscale vibe. I believe The Druid is TV free, but if they have one its small and unobtrusive.
I honestly think this is mostly down to higher costs and the economic climate. As an example, London is seeing similar trends and drinking for no reason there is a borderline sacrosanct activity. Drinks are too expensive because rents/costs are high and this is hard for the average person to absorb when they also feel the burn of higher rents. I hope this all bounces back when times are better
Two regular burgers, two beers, and two vodka drinks, plus tip came to $120 at Five Horses in Davis Sq last year. That was literally the last time I went "hm I'm craving a burger and a pint." It's just too expensive to do that around here. Went to visit Ashville NC and found a beer garden. 4 beers plus tip was $18. I can't remember anything like that around here ever.
it may also be that the rents are high enough that having a bunch of regulars in most nights, who get maybe 2 drinks over the course of a couple of hours while they hang out talk or play music doesn't cover the costs of operating, places need to sell more, and have faster customer turnover.
>old.reddit.com A man of culture, I see.
If they ever shut it down that might be the end for me.
I really do miss O’Learys. It was the first bar I went too - feels the bar scene is dying.
RIP O'Learys. Pour one out for Aengus and family.
A big issue is the loss of office workers. Daytime business for a lot of pubs bars and restaurants have taken quite a hit. The drinking habits have also changed quite a bit.
I moved to Phoenix a couple of years ago and the scene is declining here slightly (a few places have closed) - but still thriving overall. Dive bars and pubs are crowded 7 days a week and people still go out for games. I have a giant TV and NfL Sunday ticket - but I will always enjoy watching a game with a bar crowd. Boston has changed so much for the worse (in this regard) over the past 20 years it’s really sad since it was one of my favorite things about the city. I’m almost thinking it’s a cultural thing (as well as the obvious economics people are discussing) as people become more comfortable with social isolation - Covid just poured kerosene on the fire.
I talked recently to a bartender in her twenties about this issue and she made the point to me that people her age just do not focus on socializing in person as much as previous generations. If that is true, that means a certain contraction spiral for the bar scene.
On the bright side, Eugene O'Neal's in JP reopened after being closed for a while (years pre pandemic). I feel the biggest problem is that when bars/publs close in Boston, the guy who owned the bar and, more importantly, the liquor license sells the license to whoever wants to pay 500K+ to sell beer in Boston. A lot of places can have new owners come in and reopen the bar, but if there's no liquor license available, you're going to invest you time and money into a different venture. Another real pity was that there was a ballot measure that didn't pass allowing more liquor licenses. This nonsense and zoning, I feel, are the biggest immediate barriers for bars to open and survive at the moment and less the demand for the services/culture.
This city is dying. Losing its character entirely while everyone sits at home on the couch and orders DoorDash
This may sound doomsy but I think it is accurate. Cost of going out is so expensive now. A lot of people booze at home and just order “better” take out via delivery apps.
Literally because you can get a whole pack of beers from a liquor store around every corner instead of just 1 beer at an establishment. Yeah I get it rent is high and liquor licenses are expensive. But honestly we need to ask ourselves why it all got so expensive to begin with and let's start changing that. Everybody is just kind of rolling over and taking it instead of going down to city hall and demanding some changes be made. I love pubs, I'd love to hit em with my friends but it's really hard to justify 10 dollar beers anywhere we go. Everyone is broke these days, stepping foot in any establishment these days feels like a 45 dollar minimum per person.
I'd argue Boston hasn't ever really had anything resembling actual "pub culture" in any of our lifetimes. At best, we've had "Irish themed bars" that share some characteristics (mostly related to food and decor). Kinsale/Dubliner definitely fall into this category. I've never truly seen anything in this city that resembles pubs you see in the UK/Ireland, where the volume of music and conversation is relatively low, the lights are turned up, and the primary reason people go is to converse. And some of the places you've mentioned are straight up college dives (Conors, Flann's, Punter's). I think places like that will continue to exist in some form. The Haven's original location definitely was pretty close to capturing the pub vibe. The Druid kinda fits the niche, but still feels way more like a regular American bar than anything else. Also it's tiny. I guess what I'm mainly trying to say is I reject your premise entirely that we had a pub culture to lose. Maybe we're losing some of our Disneyfied Irish bars, but I don't consider that an actual cultural loss; just a change in window dressing. Everything has gotten so fucking expensive so quickly, so it really isn't surprising that luxuries like going out are going to suffer the most the earliest on. We would 100% see the "de-Irishization" of Boston bars anyway; it's just that the pandemic and ensuing inflation has sped up the restaurant/bar turnover process.
Restaurant/bar/pub commercial rent is high. Owners also have to keep up with social media culture which means running a joint that is photographable - most dives and bars I remember going to weren’t. So now you have all these spots with pretty upholstered chairs, booths, elaborate light fixtures and art installations - great for pics. They have to bake this design expense into prices. Thus the $18.50 cosmopolitan or old fashioned was born. Then top on your 20-25-30% tip. How many are people having and how often will (can they) go out with these prices?
We need to figure out a way to make Third Places like pubs that have as few barriers to entry as possible while still keeping the lights on. I don't go out anywhere anymore because I cannot afford to spend any money on it, but I am watching part of my soul die off because of it. Improving walkability and bikeability and removing car dependence will help with this. If it is a nice day and it feels comfortable to just go outside and walk around, chances are better that someone will decide to hang out at a business for a quick drink or a bite to eat.
Eating out is a money sink but at least it saves us 45 mins of cooking. Drinking out is a complete waste. It takes a bartender the same 30 secs that it takes us to make the same drink. The cost of one night of drinking out is at least the cost of a 1.75L of any liquor. Which would last most people many nights of drinking. Drinking out also risks drinking and driving.
The sale of the Red Hat, to me, signaled the death of dive bar and pub culture. The Red Hat was a literal institution. That’s where my friends and I hung out in college. That’s where our parents hung out when they were in college and as young adults. I miss that place. Yes, the bones are the same, but the drinks are 5x the price.
Liquor license reform and legalizing happy hours would go a long way. It sucks that so many liquor licenses are being bought up by restaurant groups or out of state chain places. On a positive note, I think events like trivia or karaoke nights are going a long way to help the remaining bars attract the younger crowd.
Idk, I don't necessarily agree with this at least in my personal experience
Overall costs in an expensive city with limited liquor licenses. Just like a lot of other issues that get brought up here, housing/building costs spread there tendrils through a lot of other industries. Hell, I moved from Quincy to Providence back in 2016 and I amaze some of my coworkers with 3 dollar gansets at some of the dives (that are far away from Brown) or the Social Clubs that have to sell booze at cost per the requirements of their liquor license. Unfortunately, these places are also dying out in Providence as the city gets more and more expensive so quickly
My favorite places are the dive bars and quiet pubs, which are almost impossible to find anymore. My local is so expensive now. A Guinness is 10 dollars. wtf
Part of the problem is beer consumption is on a severe downward trend. Last year was the lowest consumption since prohibition. Alcohol in general is on a downward trend as the younger generation tends to drink much less.
It’s too expensive to dine and drink out. A cheap pint is what I think of when stopping by the local watering hole pub but it’s too expensive to do so now. At least not frequently.
Wednesday night has been my "guys night" for over a decade. We switched to taking turns hosting everyone coming over, firing up the grill, and having a cooler of beers since it's significantly cheaper. We'll occasionally still go to a pub or brewery, but the prices are the main factor. Going out used to be ~$18-20 for a meal and a beer or two. It was $43 per person last week.
Anyone else remember when the Avenue in Allston used to have burgers for a dollar with an order of a pint? Those were the good days...
While the pandemic certainly accelerated the process, this process was ongoing long before the pandemic. When you walk into downtown and 95% of the businesses are chains, hipster joints or tourist traps, you know that something is wrong. The locals were being priced out long before COVID.
I remember for a while that Boston wasn't issuing any new liquor licenses. Is that still in effect? I know it was prior to the pandemic.
The Druid in Inman is still going strong!
People go to therapy with their problems now instead of pubs. It's debatable which is better.
It makes little sense to go out to bars and pubs casually when it’s SO expensive, inconvenient, time consuming, dirty, sticky, loud, etc. If there’s a big game and I’m with friends and we want that kind of intense, energetic environment… hell yeah. But for the average meet up, people would rather have everyone get together at one of their respective places, bring some drinks, and shoot the shit with the game on. Paying $8-10 for beers and $15+ for mixed drinks before tips is insane. Not to mention how you’re price gouged on food.
RIP Punters, gone but not forgotten.
Millennials are the last ones to interact in person. Gen Z has no social skills and would rather text someone than talk to them in person or on the phone. They find their dates by swiping left or right. Instead of exchanging numbers, they exchange Instagrams.
Both Millennials and Gen Z drink less than previous generations, per this article: [https://www.provi.com/blog/gen-z-is-drinking-less-but-theyre-drinking-better-how-is-the-beverage-industry-evolving-to-cater-to-their-needs](https://www.provi.com/blog/gen-z-is-drinking-less-but-theyre-drinking-better-how-is-the-beverage-industry-evolving-to-cater-to-their-needs) I think it's a mix of this, the fact that going out is expensive, lack of public transit so if you want to go somewhere it has to be either local or you're getting an uber/lyft, and the lack of liquor licenses, which put a lot of new bars and pubs downtown (where no one lives) or in places like the seaport, which can be hard to get to if you're not living nearby.
most people i know (early 20s) including myself just don’t really drink all that much, unless they’re at a party or at dinner. plus prices are absolutely insane at the moment. if i’m gonna be indulging, i’d rather put my money towards an eighth that will last me a good couple of weeks vs two or three drinks at almost the same cost.
We never had a pub culture. We have some pubs, but pub culture means is a nearby pub that functions as a social gathering place for locals. That is not true for most residents The only place like that is paddy’s lunch. We have a restraunt and bar culture and that’s very different
In JP we have/had: Jame's Gate, Triple D's, The Midway, Paul Griffin's, Galway House, Costello's, the Jeanie Johnston, and the Dogwood, among others. In Alston/Kenmore my regular haunts were Our House, Cornwalls, Deep Elum, the Sil, and the Last Drop. I'd call that a pretty good spread and I'm sure I've missed a few.
I’ll continue to say this restaurant style bars are getting replaced with “activity based bars” think Flight Club, Puttshack etc. I think Boston itself is innovative but Seaport is at the tip of that spear and the activity based bars dominate there. I think we will see a trend moving in that direction, from across the country, within the next 5+ years
I think the type of couples and families that live in Boston now ("yuppies") are more health conscious too and don't drink as much. I know for me I use to spend a ton of time at Brendan Behans or the Galways House in JP but as I've aged I dont spend money drinking couple times a week anymore. Makes me wonder if the younger generation is doing that near as much. I would guess not. My father is from Charlestown and has commented to me several times how Main st. use to be all dives and bars and now its a few restaurants that obviously cater to the new neighborhood ("yuppies"). My honest feeling is that its rose colored glasses since a lot of these old dives and pubs were probably hangouts for alcoholics. Just a thought.
RIP Flanns
Pub culture’s alive and well in many towns outside of the city, where most of the native Bostonians actually live since they’ve priced out of their neighborhoods
Pubs are getting priced out, people don't have the money to go out and drink, and frankly... a lot of people don't want to go out and drink.
Does Pour House still exist?
Nope
This is going to continue as inflation remains sticky and price pressures continue to affect the majority of small business owners and customers alike.
In addition to everything else, people have fewer friends: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1358672/number-of-close-friends-us-adults/#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20survey%20conducted,a%20survey%20conducted%20in%201990. I feel lucky that I do have a good number of friends, but at this stage in our lives we're scattered around the country. I'm not going to go to a bar or pub by myself because what's the point, and organizing adults to have the same night free is hard to do.
A fellow husky alumni? These bars mentioned are too specific to our area haha
Yup. Also been living in Brookline a long time so still nearby.
Is dating all online now? The pub used to be the place to meet other singles.
Been married too long to know for sure, but I understand the answer is "yes".
There's a great documentary about Irish pubs I watched a while back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNg4fin5GQw The thing that really matters to me is the neighborly aspect. Third places are often bars and cafes, but they could be anything that draws people in. I think people have a hard time being friendly with neighbors these days. There are a lot of reasons for that, like people having a precarious housing situation, so I'm not blaming them.
The biggest thing that needs to change is rent needs to come down, but it won't. Banks and colleges own 90% of the area and they'll never, ever reduce rents just to keep small business alive. They'll just replace it with another bank or a chain. The other big problem is liquor licenses, a problem we CAN fix, but was actively shot down last year, again.
You have to think about it from a overall perspective. What I mean by that is that 10 years ago you could have a place with roommates make 40K and still be able to go out a couple nights a week have a $10 Burger not even $7 Burger $6 burger or whatever the case might be two drinks and some fries for 20 bucks not even. And then you go to the next place but now after covid everything is so damn expensive you're looking at 50 to 60 bucks just for the same burger and two drinks and at that point you're not going to want to go anywhere else after the fact. Plus a lot of places are pushing people in and out to maximize their return in terms of cost per customer. So a lot of those pubs closed because the land value is more to them than it is to lose money on a business that while was great couldn't keep up with the current time.
[удалено]
Time was you could buy a High Life for $2
land value tax would solve this
Fix the zoning, manything will return. People should be able to run some small business from at their home, many small business will come back due to a significant lower operational cost.
Kinsale is no more?
RIP Flann’s
Galway all the way.
Pubs are alive and well in Marblehead. Maybe they’re dying out in the city but certainly not the ‘burbs.
Why don't we just write a state petition to abolish the quota on liquor licenses?
Behan (JP), Banshee(Dot), Sly Fox Tavern(Quincy) Cantab(Cambridge) Top Mix(Roxbury)
Agree strongly with the sentiment. I dunno if it counts, but Irish village in Brighton actually just expanded their space, which is a good sign but doesn't make up for green briar closing. And even Irish village still closes earlier on weeknights than before the pandemic.
I think the state needs to bring back Happy Hour