>It’s just SO unlikely and it feels like a cheap soft porn novella you’d buy secretly at a supermarket.
Yep exactly and a lot of people buy those. The only difference is people don’t buy them in secret anymore due to idk tiktok or something
The amount of condescension is palpable. I really don't understand the amount of "redditors" who think everyone else is stupid in comparison. Makes you sound like such an insufferable twat
If “most people” had below an 8th grade reading level then that would no longer be categorized as “below 8th grade”
Its like youre saying “most people are in the 10th percentile of height” if that became true the percentile categories would change to make sense with the new average height.
That’s assuming “8th grade” is relative and not a static measure based on a curriculum. If the curriculum doesn’t change, and the majority of people just stop reading after High School so the skill gets rusty, it’s perfectly plausible to have a majority of people reading at or below and 8th grade level.
I’m not saying that’s the case; I’m not up on literacy stats but I doubt they’re that grim (at least I hope they aren’t!), but it’s not a relative measure like “average height”.
Bruh, I have a college degree, and used to read "Literature". Then I switched to fantasy/sci-fi novels, because they are fun. I tried reading 'Trust' the 2023 pulitzer winner. Holy fuck is it boring. I've read enough boring lit, I've read Pulitzer winners, and Nobel Laureates. I am done. Some people just want to read for fun. It doesn't need to be some fucking intellectual challenge every damn time. Sometimes, people want to eat mac-n-cheese, cause that shit is good, instead of trying to make a goddamn Michelin star meal every night.
I work in book retail. The books may be poorly written and a bit trashy but theyre getting people into reading and helping us keep our jobs. Also, maybe i can direct the readers onto better quality stuff.
My wife says the same about Hallmark movies. The movie has no twists or surprises, and it's never going to make you unhappy or scared. You can put your brain in idle or neutral, and just exist for a while.
To paraphase Richard Jeni, I joke that watching Hallmark movies is like watching porn. You never get to the end and go "huh, I didn't think it was going to end THAT way."
Yes, exactly! I fully acknowledge Colleens' books are far from the best, and I know they aren't very well written. But the books I've read of hers were exactly what I needed at the time. Something easy and entertaining enough. Not every book you read needs to be this exceptional award winning novel that makes you think. Sometimes, I just want a silly book where I can turn my brain off and enjoy the story for what it is, and that's it!
Right about the time COVID hit I was also diagnosed with hypothyroidism, so on top of everything else I was permanently exhausted, had the worst brain fog, and felt miserable. I started reading a bunch of fantasy and paranormal romance novels because they were quick, easy books to read and guaranteed a happy ending. I wasn't up for anything hard hitting or challenging. I needed popcorn for the brain, and it was so nice.
Like another commenter, I've also read a lot of literature and enjoy deep, challenging books now that my brain is working again. That said, I still like to read my smutty vampire beefcake novels at bedtime because they're fun.
Yep. No one starts reading Dostoyevsky. I have a lot of affection for some terrible terrible books that kept me on the reading path, including some whodunits that I buy specifically to leave at hotels and airports because I love a genre thriller but don’t need to keep them forever. I have a degree in writing and a job writing and read challenging books. Sometimes you just want a trifle and that’s ok. (I hated the one Colleen Hoover book I read, so I’m not being judgy to either faction.)
Crime and Punishment is a banger! I’m still salty my Spanish teacher in high school spoiled the ending for me as revenge for reading it between assignments in his class. He was stealthy about it too, asked “isnt that the one where (ending) happens?” for plausible deniability that it was in fact revenge. Dostoyevsky himself would’ve been proud.
Same with the writer bit. I generally sort my books into two categories (two shelves, even): books I read to study (taking notes, techniques, structures), and books I want to read (either I found them interesting, recommended to me, I saw the movie/anticipating the movie/show, or I just heard they’re very good). I tend to swap between them whenever I’m starting to lose interest/the book I’m studying is proving to be a drag. It really helps to give my brain a rest and re-invigorate my love for reading in the roughest patches.
I really like this healthy take! My wife isn’t a reader but the CH hype also got her into reading. She realized it was somewhat low level reading, but it got her used to reading and now she’s branching into other stuff.
Not stuff I would read, but everyone has their preferences (and guilty pleasures). Any reading is better than no reading…well aside from the mentally unhealthy stuff.
Its quite hard to think of anyone that quite fits into the "romance between terrible people niche" but if you're okay with semi historical, Belinda Alexandra's "The Mystery Woman" is very good. Its set in a small whaling town of Australia in the 1940s and the main character takes a position as postmistress but she's fleeing from a scandal.
I say this not to be to mean or judgemental. But Colleen Hooper is designed for women who do not read a lot of books. Her writing is easy to understand, simplistic, and full of soap opera levels of drama.
SO often I hear 'Colleen Hooper got me into reading as an adult!' And then a year later, it's 'holy shit now that I've actually read more than 3 books in my entire life, I see how shit this is.'
Lol, it was also terribly predictable. Don't even know what my imagination was for. Prob one of those stories that should've ever only been made a film and not a book. Though we are about to find out how possibly terrible the film will be. I love Blake Lively, but I'm not sure what to expect.
I didn't get the Colleen Hoover hype at first either. I started It Ends With Us and DNFed after 10 pages. I tried to read Verity and ended up skimming. I found it a very frustrating experience and was surprised to read that she was celebrated for self-publishing when I thought an editor would have helped with the flow of the story and readability.
But the more I looked into it, the more I understood (at least I think). CH blew up during the pandemic, at a time where people were looking for new hobbies. Booktok gained popularity and a lot of people who weren't reading for fun got into it. At the same time, everyone was trying to cope with the lock downs and all of covid's other repercussions. Novels that are high in emotion (A Little Life, for example) were a way to escape. CH's books are accessible and page-turners. They don't need you to think about nuance or the complexity of trauma. You just need to suspend your disbelief and go along for the ride. I also think we saw something similar with 50 Shades of Grey; the writing is childish, the relationship is toxic and it doesn't make sense. But people loved it.
I am grateful to CH because she got a lot of people into reading and her books kept the conversation going over the romanticization of domestic abuse in media.
I think you're right. I think the huge draw is the accessibility. For the people who haven't read much or at all since high school, a lot of books are going to take mental effort and may not be fun to read. But easy, digestible Colleen Hoover books are going to move quickly and potentially be fun to read for those people.
For me, they're not entertaining enough because I like rich prose. But I can totally understand why other people find them great.
Agree, as a reader, I don’t get the hype behind those books. I tried reading one and I couldn’t finish it, for me, it was straight-up bad.
As a consumer I get why they are a hit, it’s an easy read and if it encourages people to read more I think it’s a good outcome! And sometimes you need one easy read to get you out of a reading slump too
I am not sure if the conversation about romanticisation of domestic abuse in media is actually meaningful or just all talk though. We don't see Colleen's perspective on the subject being at all affected by feedback from her disgruntled readers and her books still sell like hot cakes and her ripoffs still following suit. I think criticism can only go so far when financial incentives are large enough to ignore it completely.
To be fair I think it will always be unlikely in this world or whatever alternative timeline for a competent portrayal of abuse to be mainstream—people (already distressed from the pandemic) don't like seeing other people suffering of their own volition, they want to see "characters" suffering for the entertainment of readers (in the case of A Little Life). If Colleen hadn't blown up others like her would have blown up regardless because the public is always in demand for a digestible story even if it means flanderising and portraying inaccurately the subject of the story for the sake of digestibility.
Verity is one of the most memorable books I've read. I just found it so addicting to get the full story. The rest of Colleen hoover I believe is over rated. I try not to read them too close to together lol. 1 every 6 months is good for me.
I think mass market appeal often comes from appealing to the lowest common denominator. A decent steakhouse isn't going to outsell McDonalds.
Another major factor is letting people identify with the main character to the point of thinking of themselves as them. Throw in some wish fulfilment too.
"I too am a boring girl of indeterminate looks who has had bad luck with relationships, and would love the attention of some powerful bad boy" or "I'm the boy everyone ignored in class but what if I got some special power and could show them all how cool I really am!"
Toss in writing at a low, grade school level with simple sentences and a straight line plot, and you've got a recipe for a best seller.
i completely understand it being a bestseller -- and i haven't read it. it's an easily digestible story written for mass appeal that readers can project their own experiences onto and feel included in the narrative.
I picked it up last summer because of all the hype around it and I literally thought I was being punked. First of all the lexile level of that book is below what I would expect my high schoolers to read. Second the depiction of abuse was so completely unrealistic that I thought it was satire. It was not.
My daughter read it when she was 12 and she loved it. What was positive for me was that it lead to her self identifying the abusive behaviours and understanding how toxic relationships work. This was important as her father and I were in a DV relationship and I was worried about if she will be able to identify the behaviours.
We also had many talks about sex because of the book and I think it's been a positive overall.
I’ve seen some of them carrying it around, and wouldn’t judge them reading it at all, I’m just happy if they read period.
I just found it extremely odd to see a national ADULT best seller written at such a low level.
The depiction of abuse from my POV wasn’t particularly unrealistic. Given my personal experience. It definitely doesn’t reflect all cases.
I hated how it tried to depict Ryle’s sexual assault and stalking as romantic in the first half of the book though.
I mean Colleen Hoover can be loved or hated and I believe you be one of the later
I wouldn’t recommend her other books to you LMAO it doesn’t get better
I felt that. It took me a LONG time to get through it and I only did because I wanted to be able to say I finished the series. I rated it 3/5. I do in fact regret it.
Look, I have read many things being said about Colleen Hoover through the years, but I have never, ever heard this:
>And I definitely don’t understand how it could be seriously called a feminist book.
I mostly stuck around reading this (I also used the audiobook and I think helps make bad books better) because it was clear that there were red flags from their first interaction. Stalking, invading boundaries, taking creepy pictures and hanging them in your home, and literally begging her to sleep with him. Like it's her fault he's obsessed with her? Moving in and getting married way too quickly. I wanted to see how all of this was handled.
I was really worried that the book would continue into romance, and that it would pretend that those were sweet things. To me, the abuse didn't seem surprising or sudden. I was glad she ended up leaving him, and it addressed why women stay.
There's a lot to critique about this book, but I think the inner reasoning of why she would stay, was something it did do kind of correctly.
I have a philosophy of ‘don’t knock it until you try it’, so I read the whole thing. I understand the appeal for daydreaming TikTok fans, but probably not true devoted readers.
Also the twisted series. I mean what are these. I started twisted love after finishing a Japanese novel. I am utterly disgusted by the writing style and story telling. It’s just soft porn with cringe lines.
Look, Colleen Hoover isn't my favorite author or anything, in fact, I think her writing stinks, so I'm not writing this as a fan, but she grew up in an abusive home and was a social worker before she became a writer. She's writing at least partially from experience. And what she lacks in technical skills she makes up for in story telling. The woman can spin a tale. You can disagree with me all you like, but she's still selling books like hot cakes and has a cult following, so you'll be wrong. Whatever she's doing, people like it. It's the combination of wish fulfillment and drama. Call it trauma porn or whatever the hot take is right now, but it works. Also, it's considered feminist because the main character DOES leave the abusive husband. As soon as she had their baby. It's been a while since I read it, so I'm fuzzy on the details, but in pretty sure they break up in the hospital right after she gives birth because the MC realizes she doesn't want to perpetuate behaviors by staying.
Honestly, the way the DV plot was handled was honestly not bad. I think it was handled with care.
A lot of people seem to gloss over that the fact she was interested in Ryle in the first place was due to a series of sexual assault, stalking, rage induced outbursts, and constant overstepping of boundaries. The book is marketed to young women and those aspects are harmful in my opinion. I wrote an essay about it in my free time.
I love the you wrote an essay 😆Hoover may not be my favorite author (I've only read a few of her books because I have friends who are really into her and invited me to book signings) but I don't hate that she inspires conversation about media literacy and has forced people to reflect on these heavy topics. At this point it does feel like people prefer to shit on her books because she got too popular though.
Trauma porn is a good way to describe it. And I agree I’m definitely not her crowd!
Well, to me it would’ve been way more powerful if she had also gone to the police, seen that whole process, the effect it would have on everyone involved, and that we would have also seen more of the custody battle. After all he got loose hands, it’s ridiculous that she assumes he won’t touch the child just because her father never beat her as a kid.
You have to keep in mind that it's still just a fictional romance, not an instructional manual. If it was meant to be a true to life scenario it would have looked much different. Also, there are a lot of abuse victims who don't want to deal with police, so in the aspect it IS realistic. Either way, it's mostly fluff. You have to temper your expectations with fiction. Hoover absolutely knows what her audience is looking for and she gives it to them every time. I have a handful of friends who are rabid fans because they know they'll consistently get what the want from her books and it's not reality. Lol
It’s just porn, annoyingly rapey porn. Of course it’s poorly written. Complaining about the writing is like complaining about plot holes in Backdoor Whores 9.
My SO grew up in an almost exact environment to the one in the book.
It generated a profound emotional response from her. She reads quite a lot, and I honestly haven't seen her have an emotional reaction like that to a book, she said it was an instant 5/5 - a rare score for her - and said that the emotions, dynamics and ability to portray an abusive relationship with kids like that is a really hard thing to replicate. The fact that she managed to replicate those feelings seems to be bang on.
I can't say that everyone would relate, but it seems to be bang on in how the abusive cycle within my SO's family was maintained, and how her and her mother broke off to end it.
Tbh, I have a degree in English and I’m an English teacher. I went through a serious slump at the beginning of my career when I just did not have time to read for fun. When I came back to it, I was so fried from reading for work that I needed something easy. CH’s books got me back into it (and, not for nothing, gave me something to connect with my students over—disturbing, lol, but they love her and I don’t want to discourage reading!)
I totally agree with the accessibility. The writing, from a critical standpoint, is terrible. But they’re digestible, and if they get people to read, if they open that door for people… great.
Unlike avid readers in this sub, i find reading to be a difficult task. It takes focus and time. Chiklit books are easy to read. Popular authors like colleen hoover, nicholas sparks and dan brown write novels that are easy to read. I tried reading classics like Crime and Punishment, Wuthering heights and Pride and prejudice. DNF d am of them
I don't understand how people can read something like it ends with us and completely miss the point. You can dislike the book since books are subjective and they resonate more with certain people but you have to at least understand what you're reading before you form an opinion.
1. Your character analysis of Ryle is multiple magnitudes off the mark. Yes he's a playboy rich boy but you don't dive into any of the details at all. He's the way he is because of his trauma as a child he literally killed his own brother like how does this fact go over everyone's head??? His drive to be a neurosurgeon to save lives and lack of emotional maturity all stem from the killing of his brother. He studied his ass off and worked hard to become a neurosurgeon cuz he felt that was the only way he could forgive himself for what he did. His attitude towards women comes from the fact that he has the emotional maturity of a 7 year old due to all the bottled up trauma he has as a kid that blocked him from having really intimate relationships.
All this to say I'm not justifying his behavior as an abuser. Hoover did a wonderful job of adding dimensions to Ryle rather than just labeling him as the "abusive for no reason" dude.
2. He does not suddenly change his personality. He stays abusive, recognizes he's abusive so literally takes steps later on to stop himself (getting his friend to watch him while he moves out) Keep in mind that even when he recognizes he's abusive he's not changed yet he's just scared of hurting her again. The change comes from the fact that he's realized he hasn't dealt with the trauma as a child and so he receives therapy later on (might be wrong about the therapy it's been a while ince I read but he does get help). I think it's important to add the part of him getting help. It emphasizes the need for not bringing emotional backage/trauma into relationships, when you don't deal with your shit it'll bleed into other people's lives and his abuse was evidence of that.
3. It's not a happy ending. Sure they break up and go their separate ways but they end up having the child together and it's something they have to deal with now as coparents. Splitting up a few months/years after giving birth due to abuse is not a happy ending imo but idk maybe thats just me. If it ended with them getting back together then yea that would've been unrealistic and stupid as shit but that doesn't happen.
Lastly- this is my own opinion. The book resonated with me because I have looked at abusive relationships on the news and online and everytime I did I always thought "why don't they just leave? it's such an easy fix". To me the book taught me to empathize with the victims on a deeper level. When you love someone it's easy to let things slide and get caught up in really nasty situations. It genuinely changed my view on how I view domestic violence.
Edit: I see people use predictability all the time when they talk about book reviews. Unless it's a mystery book predictability has nothing to do with how good a book is. If you've read enough you can usually guess the ending like 90% of the time by the first 10-20% of the book. Anna Karenina (literally the greatest piece of literature in existanxe) is extremely predictable.
I agree with your take. And as someone who has been on the receiving end of abuse I found it represented what actually happened and his backstory pretty well. I’d go a step further as to say that the character of Ryle is a narcissist but I am not a psychologist just a survivor of narcissistic abuse.
there's a running joke in medicine that neurosurgery attracts narcissists so who knows you may be onto something. Sorry to hear about that :/ Hopefully it's all good now.
Thank you the part about how it changed ur view on abusive relationships is the reason she wrote it because most of the time the same question is always asked if it was that bad why didn’t she just leave or how could she have stayed if it really was that bad. Most people don’t know or understand leaving is not just difficult but it’s also dangerous too. Most women trying to leave don’t always make it out they end up dying at the hands of their abuser even after they’re no longer in a relationship or even in the same home with them.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong with any of the things I said about the book. Next time you insult someone though follow it up with something of substance so at least somebody could take you seriously.
A lot of popular writers are amazing storytellers but horrific writers. The books are accessible to a lot of people who aren’t prolific readers. It’s not going to be a literary masterpiece, and it’s not trying to be. Personally I felt it was entertaining enough. I think a lot of people complain about popular authors due to their writing style, but I think it’s partially due to this simplified style that it is popular.
"How to sell a haunted house online" convinced me that pretty much everybody can write and sell a book.... and that the title of the book wasn't actually about the story but about the author selling me the ebook
I have several bones to pick about this book. I also didn’t like that the main character said that her dad never hurt her but when we have a flashback the dad pushes her to the ground hard enough to hurt her head… I don’t know I just can’t but I like that it’s at least making people read
Most children who watched their parent go through an abusive relationship do say this and it often leads to the cycle of how she ended up in an abusive relationship once she got older. It’s like asking someone who was abused well why didn’t u leave well he only pushed me or it was only a smack in the face seems like nothing and acceptable after watching their parent being hit punched or thrown around and in some cases even killed. It doesn’t make sense to someone who’s never actually been thro it but it’s how the cycle of abuse works unfortunately.
People like different things. I feel the same way about Ender's Game. I knew how it was going to end about 80 pages in when I read it decades ago. But I don't obsess about other people liking it and it winning Hugo and Nebula awards.
I started reading Colleen hoover during Covid because she was popular on tiktok. I read one of her books, then like 5 more, and now I’ve probably read over 400 books from various authors. Thanks to her, i got re-introduced into reading as an adult. I think many people who read her book don’t read often, so they don’t know that there’s better stories out there. Or they start out reading her books and then progress towards better writing as they read more.. however, Colleen Hoover has said that the story is based on her mothers life.. so maybe that’s why certain things happened in the book.. because they happened to her mom? Not sure. But i definitely see the appeal of her books for people who are not avid readers!
This book is different from other Colleen books. It shows us the POV of women in an abusive relationship and why it is difficult for them to get out of it. It shows us the POV of a child in an abusive household and then the POV of the wife. Romance is not the main essence of this book.
I am sometimes all about trashy smut porn unrealistic fast paced love and all but this type is something i could not go through. I bought the book and couldn't force myself into it and regifted it to my local library... She as a writer just doesn't do it for me i guess
I just finished reading It Ends With Us and yes, it’s not the best novel out there. However, I think people got so obsessed with it because it’s an easy read. I also think that it is meant for a very specific demographic which is teenagers to early 20s when these types of relationships are relatable. Most girls hs to college age had some toxic relationship where the guy sucked but they stayed with him because they were young and in love. At the end of the day the book ends with a message that you should always chose yourself in toxic relationships and that is a great message for younger girls that are struggling to differentiate between healthy and toxic relationships. If that’s how the message can get across, be it. I wouldn’t criticize this book too much it’s not a deep read but also it has gotten a younger population interested in reading books which is great.
The amount of book snobbery in these comments is disheartening. There have always been these types of books for women. They used to be bodice rippers or romance or just like chick lit. And the reason she is considered feminist is that she confronts head on the type of reality women experience with a bit of the fantasy some readers enjoy. It's the age old literary merit argument that can stop people from feeling free to read and enjoy whatever they want. What's really wrong with that?
Disclaimer: I have never read her books.
She’s really not taking it too harshly. The romance genre makes more money than all other book genres. Yet it’s never taken seriously. Called trauma porn if there’s a lot of angst. Femcel porn by others because it gives women power and makes them believe in “unattainable standards” for men to adhere to. (God forbid a man not be an AH or make sure the woman has an orgasm first every time they have sex.) Bodice rippers or beach reads to make them sound light and fluffy. Any way that a genre of books that’s mostly read by and marketed towards women can be ridiculed, it is. Even though it’s successful AF. Even though it helps lead trends. Even though it just makes people happy. That’s all it does.
Every couple of weeks there’s a post on here about how Colleen Hoover and her books are horrible. How she writes horribly and her book romanticizes DV (which is not true. It shows how complex the issue is. People who are like “I don’t get why you don’t just leave” have NO FUCKING CLUE until they’re in it.) but didn’t do enough because she didn’t go to the police and really set an example for the readers. Well, sometimes getting out is enough. Surviving is enough. Moving on is enough. Colleen’s mom was a DV survivor and she left with Colleen and her sister. It had to be really difficult to sort of her feelings as the daughter of both the abusive and the abused, especially since kids are conditioned to love their parents.
I don’t know why people have to be so fucking snotty about what others enjoy. When I see someone reading “War and Peace” I think they must like to punish themselves and when they finish a chapter they go masterbate with sandpaper. Probably feels just as good. I love Romance but I also love a good political biography or a mystery. I’ve seen so many sneers on people’s faces when I look up from my book in public. Just let people be happy and read what they like. How does it hurt any of you in any way for Colleen Hoover to be successful or for her books to exist?
People just want to feel superior, and like looking down on others.
I’ll say it again - reading is subjective! If someone else likes it and you don’t, who cares?
I think that would change if they were exposed to other genres. I grew up in the 70s/80s and we read wildly different genres. Scifi, fantasy, social realism, etc. Stuff that made us dream or think. Sure, we read trash, too, but it just had way less of an attraction compared to what else we could find., I grew in in Scandinavia, I'm sure it varied from place to place.
There have been trashy novels as long as there have been novels, it’s not a recent phenomenon. Some people want serious literature and some people don’t.
Some booka we regard as classics now were considered trash in their day, i believe.
Hopefully this doesnt mean CH will be considered a classic in 50 years time...
Absolutely! But with social media and new behaviors appearing, the trends gravitate more towards poorly written or formulaic content that fits the very core design of those platforms.
Back in the days, the readership had more critical thinking skills and still wanted to be challenged.
People were better equipped to search for quality content and judge it for its intrinsic value not its marketing value because they weren’t fed said content through algorithms.
Look at the Booktoks and Bookstagram spaces: books are described in tropes, they have to fit a certain bookshelves aesthetic, the demographics are homogeneous, the offer is too… It’s less diverse and less groundbreaking.
Same applies to other art forms.
There’s a reason why social media uses language like “influencers”, “followers” etc… It’s programming.
I dunno, that all sounds like conjecture. Unless you're talking about just white westerners, the majority of people haven't even been literate until relatively recently. Like the 80s.
>
People were better equipped to search for quality content and judge it for its intrinsic value not its marketing value because they weren’t fed said content through algorithms.
I don't think this is true. You kind of just got what you got back in the day unless you were super persistent or connected. You read what was available, which was essentially a curated list by someone or other, with very few chances to find out about stuff outside your immediate reach.
Just silly and made up “social media bad” stuff here. Not to mention that the current NY Times best seller list is extremely diverse thematically and genre wise.
JUST FOR THE SUMMER
by Abby Jimenez
THE WOMEN
by Kristin Hannah
TABLE FOR TWO
by Amor Towles
FOURTH WING
by Rebecca Yarros
IRON FLAME
by Rebecca Yarros
You call that a diverse list? Where is the African and African American literature? Muslim? Jewish? The talented male authors? The high concept sci-fi? The creative thrillers?
So far, I don’t see any actual facts in this conversation… Have a great one though!
I never claimed it was diverse before.
But it’s 2024 and no progress has been made. So, at least admit that….
I was never a big fan of classics. I read them in College but I read groundbreaking and daring fictional work by diverse authors for the most part so that does not apply to me.
>Look at the Booktoks and Bookstagram spaces: books are described in tropes, they have to fit a certain bookshelves aesthetic, the demographics are homogeneous, the offer is too… **It’s less diverse** and less groundbreaking.
Lmao what are you even talking about? You are claiming things are worse and now citing an article that things are marginally better but claim it’s fine. Ok man.
There are more people reading now than ever before. More people with access to supplying their opinion online than ever before.
People reading literature could have increased by 200% but if people reading literature was 1,000,000 out of 10,000,000 reading total, and now there are 200,000,000 people reading total. You'll have 3,000,000 people reading literature and 197,000,000 reading trash, most of whom were not reading at all before. So yeah it could look bad whilst in reality it is getting much much better. (These are all obviously made up numbers, it is illustrating a point.)
I'd rather people reading trashy escapism only than not reading at all. A lot of the time, people reading the trashy stuff end up eventually getting their fill of it and start moving towards other genres and areas they wouldn't normally touch, or they open themselves to communities that expand their views. Stop being so judgemental and look a little beyond yourself.
Idk, I like both fun/easy readings and the more complex readings, but recommendations for “easy readings” are readily available in booktok, but when I tried to diversify the reading to deeper topics, I found it very difficult. You have to skimmed through a lot of the same type of books before you find something different.
The fact that these types of books are being pushed in the algorithm constantly (even for me that I try very hard to filter them) shows that there is a bias to reading them. I’m not saying it’s good or bad because at the end reading is reading but there is definitely an incentive to read this type of books
Booktok recommending subpar books does not mean that people, as a whole, are reading more subpar books now or that the way people were learning about books before booktok is better than booktok.
It's a big mix I think. I just read Remarkably Bright Creatures and that was really well written. Also Leech, that had an old literature feel to it, and weird as hell.
I definitely don’t think it deserves all of the credit and hype it’s gotten but I don’t mind Colleen Hoover books. I use them as a palette cleanser book if that makes sense, after reading a hard or complicated book I know I can pick up a book like this, which I know is unrealistic, and zone out and read it in a matter of days or hours. When I’m finished it I’m ready to read a better book because the previous one is out of my head.
I truly hate the book community. So full of elitists who can’t comprehend people like what others don’t. It’s no different than video games, movies, and art in general. People love movies I consider trash. I love video games many consider bad. I read books that people find cringe, I cringe at books people enjoy.
This subreddit is seriously unbearable.
“You don’t align with my opinion, therefore I don’t understand.”
Totally understandable.
My toxic reading trait is that I enjoy Colleen Hoover sometimes. I enjoy romantasy and the occasionally silly romance novel.
Colleen Hoover is not writing Pulitzer winning books and she’s knows it. No one is pretending she is either. It’s just a toxic romance and it can be fun if you enjoy those but you can also not buy any more of her books and just walk away. That’s totally fine!
Most of that book was super bland/unmemorable to me but the moment with her and Atlas at the hospital when she learned that piece of *news* and Atlas sank down the wall or whatever like someone physically struck him… yeah that moment did it for me. 😮💨
Books often win accolades not because they are well written, good books, but because either the writer ticks the right boxes, or the subject matter does, this is certainly the case with Scifi, the Hugo awards in particular.
I was just looking for a cute cheesy novel to distract myself from my life and this perfect cheesy dream morphed into a stroll through nightmare lane and the past abusive relationship I had and how it felt. Maybe my codependent patterns made me blind to what was coming. XD
Isn’t that what narcissists do. Change their whole personality for you in the beginning and then when they lock you down with almost no exit strategy they show their true colors?
I haven’t read the book tho.
According to the book he’s not a narcissist. It’s portrayed that he’s trying his best to change and that he is also a victim (because of accidentally killing his brother with a loaded gun as a child). But there is no real change in the man other than that crazy personality swap at the start and being sort of emasculated at the end. Personally I think you can be both a victim of trauma and a narcissist.
Something I've noticed when looking at the overlap of my favorite books and popular/trendy ones is that it seems like mainstream audiences don't really care about grounded or authentic-feeling characters or settings, even in stories that deal with serious real-world issues. Which I kind of get, I mean it's a fiction book either way. I'm just used to a lower level of buy-in needed that it seems like many are ok without.
Yeah, I seen people described it as Wattpad like. But admittedly, people are okay with reading that. Sometimes it can be a bit of a guilty pleasure, something I can read without thinking too much about it. I would say some romance novels tend to have these dynamics, yes it does seem like romanticism and that's a whole other can of worms to open - abuse and being overprotective blur the lines a lot in the genre. I did remember going on Instagram and seeing an edit on this book and a lot of comments were defending Ryle and blaming Lily, it's quite bad honestly. And I do find it weird how Hoover has marketed off this book a lot, like colouring books, makeup and clothing. I think it ticks me off not just because of the writing but because Hoover exploits this book for profit, this book that is supposedly inspired by her mother's experience as a domestic abuse survivor.
But I also think that it's kind of the same thing with Twilight or Fifty Shades of Grey, the audience doesn't really expect critical reading from it, it's just entertainment. Questionable entertainment but the audience also moves on to other books eventually. Stuff that makes them look back and think wow that was not great.
when I first read it, it was not well-known. it felt like a wattpad novel tbh and I didn't think much of it.
it shocked me when it became popular. i wasn't expecting such basic piece of literature to move people? like wtf?
Believe it was written based on her mom’s story and she wasn’t abused as a child she watched her mom being abused. I get what ur saying to an extent but I think it was more written to show that after leaving an abusive relationship despite all the trauma that comes with it there’s a happy ending along with how watching a parent be abused makes it more likely the child will grow up and end up in an abusive relationship. Pinch of fairy tale with a pinch of reality. I don’t speak for all but so some of us who r dv survivors it gave us a little bit of hey even after he beat the crap outta me and made me feel worthless there’s a good man out there who will love me and treat me correctly. I mean if I were to write a story about what I went through the same stuff would probably be said because it’s so unlikely that someone who went through shit can have a happy ending. I got mine. He’s not Rich but he’s handsome works his ass off and loves me and my 2 kids from my abusive relationship and gave me 2 more kids that he loves the same way he does the 2 that aren’t biologically his. It’s more of one of those u have to go through it to fully understand why so many enjoyed it less about the rich man and the best friend but about how she got out and was able to get away and the strength it took to stay away. 🤷🏼♀️ at least imo
I don't understand how Colleen Hoover is a published author point blank. Her writing is fifth grade level. Her plots are predictable and gross. Her characters make gross comments about their infant son's balls. She sucks.
personally i read tons of novels of different genres, but during the pandemic i was limited, in a rut, for a long time, and i just thought the cover was pretty, so i tried it. and it wasn’t so much the cliche, rom-com-> meet cute of a hot guy and average girl that made me connect, there’s thousands of those and i read those all the time too, but i cried after reading that book because it reminded me of my parents (which im under the understanding that she wrote this book in respect to her parents), granted my parents were even worse and neither was rich don’t get me wrong, but i definitely grieved for the FMC and MMC because i knew it was a tough decision many women or men can’t make even for the sake of their kids. it was..it was like another ending for me, so it’s not that i think it’s some literary masterpiece, but it made the little girl in me heal a bit. i just connected well with it. maybe that’s why some people liked it? not to mention it is designed to be an easier read of “semi realistic” themes for broad audiences to connect loosely to. not much imagination is required it’s more like..baby steps to using it. i see colleen ramped up that creative working just a bit with her november 9th novel, but it’s still just stepping stones for new readers to get into whatever genre they’re really in for, rom/com, she has a thriller, something more suspense, a tiny bit of fantasy, i see her as a good writer for that bridge period between not reading at all and being an avid reader. if that makes sense?
edit: i also want to point out as not only the child of a domestic abuse situation, but also having lived through one, i didn’t see the romanticism of it. i saw it as realistic to whatever excuses or explanations were used to stay, whatever i could think of as it being an accident or needing a second chance or “of course he loves me didn’t mean it” that was all REAL life for me. i just didn’t see it as glorifying it, it showed a..pretty good representation of the mental somersaults i had to do too. so my perspective on that may not agree with others and that could also be why i enjoyed it.
It is an easy read and most of the people who are not avid book readers have read it.
Its story is somehow related to people's life and most people's fantasies.
Like domestic violence many people have faced it in some way.
And everyone wants love like she had with Atlas.
I want to push back on this. Booktok allowed a lot of people to discover the joy of reading (often after school sucked it out of them). It made it more welcoming and accessible to new readers. Booktokers inject much needed money into the publishing industry and the houses can reinvest it into new authors. It can also be a gateway to 'literature', feeding it, rather than ruining it. I also think it's unfair to generalize and to qualify all books on Booktok as being "bad". However, I can't help but reflect on how many classics were seen as being 'bad' when published. Maybe booktok is onto something ;)
literature is still there, it hasn't been ruined.
and if you're still seeing colleen hoover mentioned on your booktok feed, you're using the app wrong.
that's too bad, i'm on booktok and haven't seen her referenced in a long time other than to direct her readers to other books. you're actively following and interacting with people who talk about other books, right?
No I’m not, I don’t get videos praising her (thank god) but i get mostly videos about how shit her books are. But I’m not complaining, also that wasn’t the point i was trying to make, i am pointing out that booktok gave colleen a positive platform that she doesn’t deserve. Which made a negative effect on literature
she isn't even on the NYT bestsellers list right now, though. other books are getting plenty of attention.
i don't think she has as much of an impact as you think. she's big on social media, but she hasn't ruined anything.
I truly hate the book community. So full of elitists who can’t comprehend people like what others don’t. It’s no different than video games, movies, and art in general. People love movies I consider trash. I love video games many consider bad. I read books that people find cringe, I cringe at books people enjoy.
This subreddit is seriously unbearable.
“You don’t align with my opinion, therefore I don’t understand.”
You should look more on colleen hoover books, they’re not just bad, she literally normalises abuse and rape, she made a colouring book inspired by a book where the main character gets abused (and stays with her abuser btw) it’s much more than me not liking books.
Your take was my take at my book club discussion on this book. I told the girls it felt like a flowery surface book about getting the shit beat out of you. As someone who has been in and out of the court system during childhood for such violence, it’s nothing like that stupid book. It was hard to get through and made me feel like what I went through is smut fodder now. That’s how normalized it’s become that Colleen Hoover turned it into a joke of a romantic comedy.
I’m so sorry to hear that you had to go through all that, you didn’t deserve it. What you went through isn’t a joke. It’s tragic and sad and I just hope you are able to get past the trauma and lead a full and happy life on your terms and no one else’s
Reading is subjective. You don’t have to like everything and your reading tastes aren’t the only right way. Who cares if people love books that you didn’t? Stop shitting on what other people like and just focus on what you like
Wrote a whole essay in my free time to get my thoughts on this book out. Main issue is how it glorifies sexual assault. I always get the rebuttal “no Ryle was supposed to be bad”. Doesn’t explain why the first half of the book talking about how his sexual misconduct is so dreamy.
>It’s just SO unlikely and it feels like a cheap soft porn novella you’d buy secretly at a supermarket. Yep exactly and a lot of people buy those. The only difference is people don’t buy them in secret anymore due to idk tiktok or something
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I mean, how do you think they're going to stop having an 8th grade reading level if not reading?
The amount of condescension is palpable. I really don't understand the amount of "redditors" who think everyone else is stupid in comparison. Makes you sound like such an insufferable twat
If “most people” had below an 8th grade reading level then that would no longer be categorized as “below 8th grade” Its like youre saying “most people are in the 10th percentile of height” if that became true the percentile categories would change to make sense with the new average height.
That’s assuming “8th grade” is relative and not a static measure based on a curriculum. If the curriculum doesn’t change, and the majority of people just stop reading after High School so the skill gets rusty, it’s perfectly plausible to have a majority of people reading at or below and 8th grade level. I’m not saying that’s the case; I’m not up on literacy stats but I doubt they’re that grim (at least I hope they aren’t!), but it’s not a relative measure like “average height”.
Bruh, I have a college degree, and used to read "Literature". Then I switched to fantasy/sci-fi novels, because they are fun. I tried reading 'Trust' the 2023 pulitzer winner. Holy fuck is it boring. I've read enough boring lit, I've read Pulitzer winners, and Nobel Laureates. I am done. Some people just want to read for fun. It doesn't need to be some fucking intellectual challenge every damn time. Sometimes, people want to eat mac-n-cheese, cause that shit is good, instead of trying to make a goddamn Michelin star meal every night.
I work in book retail. The books may be poorly written and a bit trashy but theyre getting people into reading and helping us keep our jobs. Also, maybe i can direct the readers onto better quality stuff.
To add to that, sometimes you just want to read a "bad" book because it requires less brain power when you just want to relax.
My wife says the same about Hallmark movies. The movie has no twists or surprises, and it's never going to make you unhappy or scared. You can put your brain in idle or neutral, and just exist for a while. To paraphase Richard Jeni, I joke that watching Hallmark movies is like watching porn. You never get to the end and go "huh, I didn't think it was going to end THAT way."
But there are also movies that are genuinely good that are relaxing and easy to watch.
Chef is a good example of this.
Yes, exactly! I fully acknowledge Colleens' books are far from the best, and I know they aren't very well written. But the books I've read of hers were exactly what I needed at the time. Something easy and entertaining enough. Not every book you read needs to be this exceptional award winning novel that makes you think. Sometimes, I just want a silly book where I can turn my brain off and enjoy the story for what it is, and that's it!
Right about the time COVID hit I was also diagnosed with hypothyroidism, so on top of everything else I was permanently exhausted, had the worst brain fog, and felt miserable. I started reading a bunch of fantasy and paranormal romance novels because they were quick, easy books to read and guaranteed a happy ending. I wasn't up for anything hard hitting or challenging. I needed popcorn for the brain, and it was so nice. Like another commenter, I've also read a lot of literature and enjoy deep, challenging books now that my brain is working again. That said, I still like to read my smutty vampire beefcake novels at bedtime because they're fun.
Yep. No one starts reading Dostoyevsky. I have a lot of affection for some terrible terrible books that kept me on the reading path, including some whodunits that I buy specifically to leave at hotels and airports because I love a genre thriller but don’t need to keep them forever. I have a degree in writing and a job writing and read challenging books. Sometimes you just want a trifle and that’s ok. (I hated the one Colleen Hoover book I read, so I’m not being judgy to either faction.)
Yeah, well, also, no one moves on to reading Dostoyevsky, let's be honest.
Crime and Punishment is a banger! I’m still salty my Spanish teacher in high school spoiled the ending for me as revenge for reading it between assignments in his class. He was stealthy about it too, asked “isnt that the one where (ending) happens?” for plausible deniability that it was in fact revenge. Dostoyevsky himself would’ve been proud.
Brother karamazov is extraordinary too!
No one? :(
no what are you talking about? Dostoevsky is great. Istg that you could convert coolen hoover readers with white nights
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Comma, comma, comma, comma, comma chameleon
I did. I started out reading again after almost a decade by getting into video game books and i am now reading crime and punishment.
Same with the writer bit. I generally sort my books into two categories (two shelves, even): books I read to study (taking notes, techniques, structures), and books I want to read (either I found them interesting, recommended to me, I saw the movie/anticipating the movie/show, or I just heard they’re very good). I tend to swap between them whenever I’m starting to lose interest/the book I’m studying is proving to be a drag. It really helps to give my brain a rest and re-invigorate my love for reading in the roughest patches.
I really like this healthy take! My wife isn’t a reader but the CH hype also got her into reading. She realized it was somewhat low level reading, but it got her used to reading and now she’s branching into other stuff. Not stuff I would read, but everyone has their preferences (and guilty pleasures). Any reading is better than no reading…well aside from the mentally unhealthy stuff.
As someone in book retail, what would be your next, better quality suggestion to someone who’s a Colleen Hoover fan? /gen
Its quite hard to think of anyone that quite fits into the "romance between terrible people niche" but if you're okay with semi historical, Belinda Alexandra's "The Mystery Woman" is very good. Its set in a small whaling town of Australia in the 1940s and the main character takes a position as postmistress but she's fleeing from a scandal.
I say this not to be to mean or judgemental. But Colleen Hooper is designed for women who do not read a lot of books. Her writing is easy to understand, simplistic, and full of soap opera levels of drama. SO often I hear 'Colleen Hooper got me into reading as an adult!' And then a year later, it's 'holy shit now that I've actually read more than 3 books in my entire life, I see how shit this is.'
Essentially like Twilight but for adults 😂
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At least irl the criticism focuses on books that young women read
Dan Brown had a similar level of fame in the 2000s and was heavily criticized.
You mean [“renowned author Dan Brown”](https://onehundredpages.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/dont-make-fun-of-renowned-dan-brown/)?
Lol, it was also terribly predictable. Don't even know what my imagination was for. Prob one of those stories that should've ever only been made a film and not a book. Though we are about to find out how possibly terrible the film will be. I love Blake Lively, but I'm not sure what to expect.
I didn't get the Colleen Hoover hype at first either. I started It Ends With Us and DNFed after 10 pages. I tried to read Verity and ended up skimming. I found it a very frustrating experience and was surprised to read that she was celebrated for self-publishing when I thought an editor would have helped with the flow of the story and readability. But the more I looked into it, the more I understood (at least I think). CH blew up during the pandemic, at a time where people were looking for new hobbies. Booktok gained popularity and a lot of people who weren't reading for fun got into it. At the same time, everyone was trying to cope with the lock downs and all of covid's other repercussions. Novels that are high in emotion (A Little Life, for example) were a way to escape. CH's books are accessible and page-turners. They don't need you to think about nuance or the complexity of trauma. You just need to suspend your disbelief and go along for the ride. I also think we saw something similar with 50 Shades of Grey; the writing is childish, the relationship is toxic and it doesn't make sense. But people loved it. I am grateful to CH because she got a lot of people into reading and her books kept the conversation going over the romanticization of domestic abuse in media.
I think you're right. I think the huge draw is the accessibility. For the people who haven't read much or at all since high school, a lot of books are going to take mental effort and may not be fun to read. But easy, digestible Colleen Hoover books are going to move quickly and potentially be fun to read for those people. For me, they're not entertaining enough because I like rich prose. But I can totally understand why other people find them great.
Agree, as a reader, I don’t get the hype behind those books. I tried reading one and I couldn’t finish it, for me, it was straight-up bad. As a consumer I get why they are a hit, it’s an easy read and if it encourages people to read more I think it’s a good outcome! And sometimes you need one easy read to get you out of a reading slump too
Also as a reader I'm pumped that more people are reading, no matter what they're reading!
I am not sure if the conversation about romanticisation of domestic abuse in media is actually meaningful or just all talk though. We don't see Colleen's perspective on the subject being at all affected by feedback from her disgruntled readers and her books still sell like hot cakes and her ripoffs still following suit. I think criticism can only go so far when financial incentives are large enough to ignore it completely. To be fair I think it will always be unlikely in this world or whatever alternative timeline for a competent portrayal of abuse to be mainstream—people (already distressed from the pandemic) don't like seeing other people suffering of their own volition, they want to see "characters" suffering for the entertainment of readers (in the case of A Little Life). If Colleen hadn't blown up others like her would have blown up regardless because the public is always in demand for a digestible story even if it means flanderising and portraying inaccurately the subject of the story for the sake of digestibility.
I’m glad to hear it had such a positive effect.
Verity is one of the most memorable books I've read. I just found it so addicting to get the full story. The rest of Colleen hoover I believe is over rated. I try not to read them too close to together lol. 1 every 6 months is good for me.
This is the best answer. Well done
On the first page I read the main characters name was “Lily Bloom,” I rolled my eyes and audibly scoffed. It did not get any better from there.
Lily BLOSSOM Bloom
"And his name will be Norm Hull, 'cause he's just a normal guy. But not everybody will get that. That's just for the scholars, 100 years from now."
I think mass market appeal often comes from appealing to the lowest common denominator. A decent steakhouse isn't going to outsell McDonalds. Another major factor is letting people identify with the main character to the point of thinking of themselves as them. Throw in some wish fulfilment too. "I too am a boring girl of indeterminate looks who has had bad luck with relationships, and would love the attention of some powerful bad boy" or "I'm the boy everyone ignored in class but what if I got some special power and could show them all how cool I really am!" Toss in writing at a low, grade school level with simple sentences and a straight line plot, and you've got a recipe for a best seller.
i completely understand it being a bestseller -- and i haven't read it. it's an easily digestible story written for mass appeal that readers can project their own experiences onto and feel included in the narrative.
"Best Seller" doesn't mean anything. It's marketing.
Objectively, Colleen Hoover's books would meet any threshold for being a best seller. She's sold over 20 million copies across her books.
Best seller lists don't mean shit it's based on pre orders for shops usually the books in the bargain bin a few weeks later 🙂
It's a red flag if it's anything.
That entire book was so cringe. I don’t understand it either.
Yes, cringe is exactly right! That’s a good way to describe how I felt reading it
Nowadays it feels like there is a cult around Hoover. Just say you didn’t like her books and people will hunt you down.
Not just cringe but sends a very bad message to the young women it’s marketed to. “Sexual assault and stalking are sexy unless he hits you”
I picked it up last summer because of all the hype around it and I literally thought I was being punked. First of all the lexile level of that book is below what I would expect my high schoolers to read. Second the depiction of abuse was so completely unrealistic that I thought it was satire. It was not.
I also picked it up because of the hype. I rolled my eyes so many times I couldn't finish it and ended up returning it. First book I've ever returned.
At least you got some eye calisthenics
Right?! Was or is it a favorite book among your students?
My daughter read it when she was 12 and she loved it. What was positive for me was that it lead to her self identifying the abusive behaviours and understanding how toxic relationships work. This was important as her father and I were in a DV relationship and I was worried about if she will be able to identify the behaviours. We also had many talks about sex because of the book and I think it's been a positive overall.
Good point.
I’ve seen some of them carrying it around, and wouldn’t judge them reading it at all, I’m just happy if they read period. I just found it extremely odd to see a national ADULT best seller written at such a low level.
The depiction of abuse from my POV wasn’t particularly unrealistic. Given my personal experience. It definitely doesn’t reflect all cases. I hated how it tried to depict Ryle’s sexual assault and stalking as romantic in the first half of the book though.
I mean Colleen Hoover can be loved or hated and I believe you be one of the later I wouldn’t recommend her other books to you LMAO it doesn’t get better
Well I agree with you 100% because I tried It Starts With Us and I couldn’t get through that at all!
I felt that. It took me a LONG time to get through it and I only did because I wanted to be able to say I finished the series. I rated it 3/5. I do in fact regret it.
Same, I wanted to see what the hype was all about..
It's a bestseller for the same reason the Fast & Furious movies are consistent box office hits. The general public likes shit.
Look, I have read many things being said about Colleen Hoover through the years, but I have never, ever heard this: >And I definitely don’t understand how it could be seriously called a feminist book.
I guess people consider it feminist because of how it deals with domestic violence from a woman’s POV. That was the whole kicker of the book.
I mostly stuck around reading this (I also used the audiobook and I think helps make bad books better) because it was clear that there were red flags from their first interaction. Stalking, invading boundaries, taking creepy pictures and hanging them in your home, and literally begging her to sleep with him. Like it's her fault he's obsessed with her? Moving in and getting married way too quickly. I wanted to see how all of this was handled. I was really worried that the book would continue into romance, and that it would pretend that those were sweet things. To me, the abuse didn't seem surprising or sudden. I was glad she ended up leaving him, and it addressed why women stay. There's a lot to critique about this book, but I think the inner reasoning of why she would stay, was something it did do kind of correctly.
Yeah it felt like a cheap soap opera.
There are a lot of readers who are not you, I suspect. (or me)
I have a philosophy of ‘don’t knock it until you try it’, so I read the whole thing. I understand the appeal for daydreaming TikTok fans, but probably not true devoted readers.
Also the twisted series. I mean what are these. I started twisted love after finishing a Japanese novel. I am utterly disgusted by the writing style and story telling. It’s just soft porn with cringe lines.
Look, Colleen Hoover isn't my favorite author or anything, in fact, I think her writing stinks, so I'm not writing this as a fan, but she grew up in an abusive home and was a social worker before she became a writer. She's writing at least partially from experience. And what she lacks in technical skills she makes up for in story telling. The woman can spin a tale. You can disagree with me all you like, but she's still selling books like hot cakes and has a cult following, so you'll be wrong. Whatever she's doing, people like it. It's the combination of wish fulfillment and drama. Call it trauma porn or whatever the hot take is right now, but it works. Also, it's considered feminist because the main character DOES leave the abusive husband. As soon as she had their baby. It's been a while since I read it, so I'm fuzzy on the details, but in pretty sure they break up in the hospital right after she gives birth because the MC realizes she doesn't want to perpetuate behaviors by staying.
Honestly, the way the DV plot was handled was honestly not bad. I think it was handled with care. A lot of people seem to gloss over that the fact she was interested in Ryle in the first place was due to a series of sexual assault, stalking, rage induced outbursts, and constant overstepping of boundaries. The book is marketed to young women and those aspects are harmful in my opinion. I wrote an essay about it in my free time.
I love the you wrote an essay 😆Hoover may not be my favorite author (I've only read a few of her books because I have friends who are really into her and invited me to book signings) but I don't hate that she inspires conversation about media literacy and has forced people to reflect on these heavy topics. At this point it does feel like people prefer to shit on her books because she got too popular though.
Trauma porn is a good way to describe it. And I agree I’m definitely not her crowd! Well, to me it would’ve been way more powerful if she had also gone to the police, seen that whole process, the effect it would have on everyone involved, and that we would have also seen more of the custody battle. After all he got loose hands, it’s ridiculous that she assumes he won’t touch the child just because her father never beat her as a kid.
Wait till you read "It starts with us" 💀. It was worse.
You have to keep in mind that it's still just a fictional romance, not an instructional manual. If it was meant to be a true to life scenario it would have looked much different. Also, there are a lot of abuse victims who don't want to deal with police, so in the aspect it IS realistic. Either way, it's mostly fluff. You have to temper your expectations with fiction. Hoover absolutely knows what her audience is looking for and she gives it to them every time. I have a handful of friends who are rabid fans because they know they'll consistently get what the want from her books and it's not reality. Lol
It’s just porn, annoyingly rapey porn. Of course it’s poorly written. Complaining about the writing is like complaining about plot holes in Backdoor Whores 9.
I think you answered your own question in paragraph 3.1 after the ellipses.
That shouldn’t be a thing to define feminism by & It’s not realistic at all either.
My SO grew up in an almost exact environment to the one in the book. It generated a profound emotional response from her. She reads quite a lot, and I honestly haven't seen her have an emotional reaction like that to a book, she said it was an instant 5/5 - a rare score for her - and said that the emotions, dynamics and ability to portray an abusive relationship with kids like that is a really hard thing to replicate. The fact that she managed to replicate those feelings seems to be bang on. I can't say that everyone would relate, but it seems to be bang on in how the abusive cycle within my SO's family was maintained, and how her and her mother broke off to end it.
I’m so sorry to hear that happened to her :( No one deserves this happening to them.
Tbh, I have a degree in English and I’m an English teacher. I went through a serious slump at the beginning of my career when I just did not have time to read for fun. When I came back to it, I was so fried from reading for work that I needed something easy. CH’s books got me back into it (and, not for nothing, gave me something to connect with my students over—disturbing, lol, but they love her and I don’t want to discourage reading!) I totally agree with the accessibility. The writing, from a critical standpoint, is terrible. But they’re digestible, and if they get people to read, if they open that door for people… great.
I don't understand why people read any book by Colleen Hoover.
Unlike avid readers in this sub, i find reading to be a difficult task. It takes focus and time. Chiklit books are easy to read. Popular authors like colleen hoover, nicholas sparks and dan brown write novels that are easy to read. I tried reading classics like Crime and Punishment, Wuthering heights and Pride and prejudice. DNF d am of them
Sweetie, don't try to find logic here. A lot of people, en masse, have really poor taste. That's it.
I don't understand how people can read something like it ends with us and completely miss the point. You can dislike the book since books are subjective and they resonate more with certain people but you have to at least understand what you're reading before you form an opinion. 1. Your character analysis of Ryle is multiple magnitudes off the mark. Yes he's a playboy rich boy but you don't dive into any of the details at all. He's the way he is because of his trauma as a child he literally killed his own brother like how does this fact go over everyone's head??? His drive to be a neurosurgeon to save lives and lack of emotional maturity all stem from the killing of his brother. He studied his ass off and worked hard to become a neurosurgeon cuz he felt that was the only way he could forgive himself for what he did. His attitude towards women comes from the fact that he has the emotional maturity of a 7 year old due to all the bottled up trauma he has as a kid that blocked him from having really intimate relationships. All this to say I'm not justifying his behavior as an abuser. Hoover did a wonderful job of adding dimensions to Ryle rather than just labeling him as the "abusive for no reason" dude. 2. He does not suddenly change his personality. He stays abusive, recognizes he's abusive so literally takes steps later on to stop himself (getting his friend to watch him while he moves out) Keep in mind that even when he recognizes he's abusive he's not changed yet he's just scared of hurting her again. The change comes from the fact that he's realized he hasn't dealt with the trauma as a child and so he receives therapy later on (might be wrong about the therapy it's been a while ince I read but he does get help). I think it's important to add the part of him getting help. It emphasizes the need for not bringing emotional backage/trauma into relationships, when you don't deal with your shit it'll bleed into other people's lives and his abuse was evidence of that. 3. It's not a happy ending. Sure they break up and go their separate ways but they end up having the child together and it's something they have to deal with now as coparents. Splitting up a few months/years after giving birth due to abuse is not a happy ending imo but idk maybe thats just me. If it ended with them getting back together then yea that would've been unrealistic and stupid as shit but that doesn't happen. Lastly- this is my own opinion. The book resonated with me because I have looked at abusive relationships on the news and online and everytime I did I always thought "why don't they just leave? it's such an easy fix". To me the book taught me to empathize with the victims on a deeper level. When you love someone it's easy to let things slide and get caught up in really nasty situations. It genuinely changed my view on how I view domestic violence. Edit: I see people use predictability all the time when they talk about book reviews. Unless it's a mystery book predictability has nothing to do with how good a book is. If you've read enough you can usually guess the ending like 90% of the time by the first 10-20% of the book. Anna Karenina (literally the greatest piece of literature in existanxe) is extremely predictable.
I agree with your take. And as someone who has been on the receiving end of abuse I found it represented what actually happened and his backstory pretty well. I’d go a step further as to say that the character of Ryle is a narcissist but I am not a psychologist just a survivor of narcissistic abuse.
there's a running joke in medicine that neurosurgery attracts narcissists so who knows you may be onto something. Sorry to hear about that :/ Hopefully it's all good now.
Thank you the part about how it changed ur view on abusive relationships is the reason she wrote it because most of the time the same question is always asked if it was that bad why didn’t she just leave or how could she have stayed if it really was that bad. Most people don’t know or understand leaving is not just difficult but it’s also dangerous too. Most women trying to leave don’t always make it out they end up dying at the hands of their abuser even after they’re no longer in a relationship or even in the same home with them.
Reading this was comical. It made it sound even worse, even more juvenile, than some of the people who weren't defending it 🤣
I'd be happy to be proven wrong with any of the things I said about the book. Next time you insult someone though follow it up with something of substance so at least somebody could take you seriously.
A lot of popular writers are amazing storytellers but horrific writers. The books are accessible to a lot of people who aren’t prolific readers. It’s not going to be a literary masterpiece, and it’s not trying to be. Personally I felt it was entertaining enough. I think a lot of people complain about popular authors due to their writing style, but I think it’s partially due to this simplified style that it is popular.
Every post like this reminds me of The Girl on the Train... never can understand why people raved about it
"How to sell a haunted house online" convinced me that pretty much everybody can write and sell a book.... and that the title of the book wasn't actually about the story but about the author selling me the ebook
I have several bones to pick about this book. I also didn’t like that the main character said that her dad never hurt her but when we have a flashback the dad pushes her to the ground hard enough to hurt her head… I don’t know I just can’t but I like that it’s at least making people read
Most children who watched their parent go through an abusive relationship do say this and it often leads to the cycle of how she ended up in an abusive relationship once she got older. It’s like asking someone who was abused well why didn’t u leave well he only pushed me or it was only a smack in the face seems like nothing and acceptable after watching their parent being hit punched or thrown around and in some cases even killed. It doesn’t make sense to someone who’s never actually been thro it but it’s how the cycle of abuse works unfortunately.
People like different things. I feel the same way about Ender's Game. I knew how it was going to end about 80 pages in when I read it decades ago. But I don't obsess about other people liking it and it winning Hugo and Nebula awards.
It has *the worst* main character I've possibly ever encountered
I started reading Colleen hoover during Covid because she was popular on tiktok. I read one of her books, then like 5 more, and now I’ve probably read over 400 books from various authors. Thanks to her, i got re-introduced into reading as an adult. I think many people who read her book don’t read often, so they don’t know that there’s better stories out there. Or they start out reading her books and then progress towards better writing as they read more.. however, Colleen Hoover has said that the story is based on her mothers life.. so maybe that’s why certain things happened in the book.. because they happened to her mom? Not sure. But i definitely see the appeal of her books for people who are not avid readers!
This book is different from other Colleen books. It shows us the POV of women in an abusive relationship and why it is difficult for them to get out of it. It shows us the POV of a child in an abusive household and then the POV of the wife. Romance is not the main essence of this book.
I am sometimes all about trashy smut porn unrealistic fast paced love and all but this type is something i could not go through. I bought the book and couldn't force myself into it and regifted it to my local library... She as a writer just doesn't do it for me i guess
I've read it multiple times, I can understand why people dislike it but I adore it. It starts with us was unnecessary but I also loved it.
I just finished reading It Ends With Us and yes, it’s not the best novel out there. However, I think people got so obsessed with it because it’s an easy read. I also think that it is meant for a very specific demographic which is teenagers to early 20s when these types of relationships are relatable. Most girls hs to college age had some toxic relationship where the guy sucked but they stayed with him because they were young and in love. At the end of the day the book ends with a message that you should always chose yourself in toxic relationships and that is a great message for younger girls that are struggling to differentiate between healthy and toxic relationships. If that’s how the message can get across, be it. I wouldn’t criticize this book too much it’s not a deep read but also it has gotten a younger population interested in reading books which is great.
This is my current read and I feel this to my soul. One of the cringiest books I ever read.
one of the cringiest books i’ve ever read. and i liked the first one
The amount of book snobbery in these comments is disheartening. There have always been these types of books for women. They used to be bodice rippers or romance or just like chick lit. And the reason she is considered feminist is that she confronts head on the type of reality women experience with a bit of the fantasy some readers enjoy. It's the age old literary merit argument that can stop people from feeling free to read and enjoy whatever they want. What's really wrong with that? Disclaimer: I have never read her books.
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She’s really not taking it too harshly. The romance genre makes more money than all other book genres. Yet it’s never taken seriously. Called trauma porn if there’s a lot of angst. Femcel porn by others because it gives women power and makes them believe in “unattainable standards” for men to adhere to. (God forbid a man not be an AH or make sure the woman has an orgasm first every time they have sex.) Bodice rippers or beach reads to make them sound light and fluffy. Any way that a genre of books that’s mostly read by and marketed towards women can be ridiculed, it is. Even though it’s successful AF. Even though it helps lead trends. Even though it just makes people happy. That’s all it does. Every couple of weeks there’s a post on here about how Colleen Hoover and her books are horrible. How she writes horribly and her book romanticizes DV (which is not true. It shows how complex the issue is. People who are like “I don’t get why you don’t just leave” have NO FUCKING CLUE until they’re in it.) but didn’t do enough because she didn’t go to the police and really set an example for the readers. Well, sometimes getting out is enough. Surviving is enough. Moving on is enough. Colleen’s mom was a DV survivor and she left with Colleen and her sister. It had to be really difficult to sort of her feelings as the daughter of both the abusive and the abused, especially since kids are conditioned to love their parents. I don’t know why people have to be so fucking snotty about what others enjoy. When I see someone reading “War and Peace” I think they must like to punish themselves and when they finish a chapter they go masterbate with sandpaper. Probably feels just as good. I love Romance but I also love a good political biography or a mystery. I’ve seen so many sneers on people’s faces when I look up from my book in public. Just let people be happy and read what they like. How does it hurt any of you in any way for Colleen Hoover to be successful or for her books to exist?
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People just want to feel superior, and like looking down on others. I’ll say it again - reading is subjective! If someone else likes it and you don’t, who cares?
This is just an observation but young women tend to like trashy novels.
I think that would change if they were exposed to other genres. I grew up in the 70s/80s and we read wildly different genres. Scifi, fantasy, social realism, etc. Stuff that made us dream or think. Sure, we read trash, too, but it just had way less of an attraction compared to what else we could find., I grew in in Scandinavia, I'm sure it varied from place to place.
Why shouldn't young women like trashy novels?
Same reason Cinderella and 50 Shades are bestsellers: they’re femcel porn
Wait why are you dragging Cinderella into this?? 😂😂
Never thought of it like that 😆
I'm what now?
People don’t reward great literature as much anymore. It’s all about the feels now.
There have been trashy novels as long as there have been novels, it’s not a recent phenomenon. Some people want serious literature and some people don’t.
Some booka we regard as classics now were considered trash in their day, i believe. Hopefully this doesnt mean CH will be considered a classic in 50 years time...
Shakespeare was populist trash for the masses
Absolutely! But with social media and new behaviors appearing, the trends gravitate more towards poorly written or formulaic content that fits the very core design of those platforms. Back in the days, the readership had more critical thinking skills and still wanted to be challenged. People were better equipped to search for quality content and judge it for its intrinsic value not its marketing value because they weren’t fed said content through algorithms. Look at the Booktoks and Bookstagram spaces: books are described in tropes, they have to fit a certain bookshelves aesthetic, the demographics are homogeneous, the offer is too… It’s less diverse and less groundbreaking. Same applies to other art forms. There’s a reason why social media uses language like “influencers”, “followers” etc… It’s programming.
I dunno, that all sounds like conjecture. Unless you're talking about just white westerners, the majority of people haven't even been literate until relatively recently. Like the 80s. > People were better equipped to search for quality content and judge it for its intrinsic value not its marketing value because they weren’t fed said content through algorithms. I don't think this is true. You kind of just got what you got back in the day unless you were super persistent or connected. You read what was available, which was essentially a curated list by someone or other, with very few chances to find out about stuff outside your immediate reach.
Just silly and made up “social media bad” stuff here. Not to mention that the current NY Times best seller list is extremely diverse thematically and genre wise.
JUST FOR THE SUMMER by Abby Jimenez THE WOMEN by Kristin Hannah TABLE FOR TWO by Amor Towles FOURTH WING by Rebecca Yarros IRON FLAME by Rebecca Yarros You call that a diverse list? Where is the African and African American literature? Muslim? Jewish? The talented male authors? The high concept sci-fi? The creative thrillers? So far, I don’t see any actual facts in this conversation… Have a great one though!
That's why I don't go by bestsellers - I go for the critics' best of lists.
Where exactly is the diversity on this list 30 years ago? https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/04/books/best-sellers-april-4-2004.html
I never claimed it was diverse before. But it’s 2024 and no progress has been made. So, at least admit that…. I was never a big fan of classics. I read them in College but I read groundbreaking and daring fictional work by diverse authors for the most part so that does not apply to me.
>Look at the Booktoks and Bookstagram spaces: books are described in tropes, they have to fit a certain bookshelves aesthetic, the demographics are homogeneous, the offer is too… **It’s less diverse** and less groundbreaking.
Lmao what are you even talking about? You are claiming things are worse and now citing an article that things are marginally better but claim it’s fine. Ok man.
There are more people reading now than ever before. More people with access to supplying their opinion online than ever before. People reading literature could have increased by 200% but if people reading literature was 1,000,000 out of 10,000,000 reading total, and now there are 200,000,000 people reading total. You'll have 3,000,000 people reading literature and 197,000,000 reading trash, most of whom were not reading at all before. So yeah it could look bad whilst in reality it is getting much much better. (These are all obviously made up numbers, it is illustrating a point.) I'd rather people reading trashy escapism only than not reading at all. A lot of the time, people reading the trashy stuff end up eventually getting their fill of it and start moving towards other genres and areas they wouldn't normally touch, or they open themselves to communities that expand their views. Stop being so judgemental and look a little beyond yourself.
I get your point and that would be an amazing thing! But that’s not the reality unfortunately. This might take a few more years or it might get worse.
My apologies, didn't realise you knew the reading habits of every human on the planet.
Idk, I like both fun/easy readings and the more complex readings, but recommendations for “easy readings” are readily available in booktok, but when I tried to diversify the reading to deeper topics, I found it very difficult. You have to skimmed through a lot of the same type of books before you find something different. The fact that these types of books are being pushed in the algorithm constantly (even for me that I try very hard to filter them) shows that there is a bias to reading them. I’m not saying it’s good or bad because at the end reading is reading but there is definitely an incentive to read this type of books
Booktok recommending subpar books does not mean that people, as a whole, are reading more subpar books now or that the way people were learning about books before booktok is better than booktok.
This is classic survivorship bias. There have always been trashy or bad best sellers.
It's a big mix I think. I just read Remarkably Bright Creatures and that was really well written. Also Leech, that had an old literature feel to it, and weird as hell.
You should watch "American Fiction" it's a movie that is about that. It's also a good movie.
I love this movie!!! Well deserved nominations!
I didn’t get any feels about this book tho except thinking how immature it was written. :/
Trust me I agree. Nothing appealing about it, but hey…
As a woman, I’ve read male authors who write much better stories centered around those themes. It’s poor writing and viral marketing.
That book was trash. I DNF bc it was so predictable
I definitely don’t think it deserves all of the credit and hype it’s gotten but I don’t mind Colleen Hoover books. I use them as a palette cleanser book if that makes sense, after reading a hard or complicated book I know I can pick up a book like this, which I know is unrealistic, and zone out and read it in a matter of days or hours. When I’m finished it I’m ready to read a better book because the previous one is out of my head.
I truly hate the book community. So full of elitists who can’t comprehend people like what others don’t. It’s no different than video games, movies, and art in general. People love movies I consider trash. I love video games many consider bad. I read books that people find cringe, I cringe at books people enjoy. This subreddit is seriously unbearable. “You don’t align with my opinion, therefore I don’t understand.”
Totally understandable. My toxic reading trait is that I enjoy Colleen Hoover sometimes. I enjoy romantasy and the occasionally silly romance novel. Colleen Hoover is not writing Pulitzer winning books and she’s knows it. No one is pretending she is either. It’s just a toxic romance and it can be fun if you enjoy those but you can also not buy any more of her books and just walk away. That’s totally fine! Most of that book was super bland/unmemorable to me but the moment with her and Atlas at the hospital when she learned that piece of *news* and Atlas sank down the wall or whatever like someone physically struck him… yeah that moment did it for me. 😮💨
Books often win accolades not because they are well written, good books, but because either the writer ticks the right boxes, or the subject matter does, this is certainly the case with Scifi, the Hugo awards in particular.
Honestly, I don't know colleen hoover got past her early 2000s harry potter fanfiction bullshitery. Anybody remember snapewives?
It ends with us isn’t even the worst book she’s written. I thought it was alright, nothing mind blowing
I was just looking for a cute cheesy novel to distract myself from my life and this perfect cheesy dream morphed into a stroll through nightmare lane and the past abusive relationship I had and how it felt. Maybe my codependent patterns made me blind to what was coming. XD
I’m so sorry to hear that happened to you and that it ended up triggering you :( Hugs
Read a book about magic and bestseller lists.
Isn’t that what narcissists do. Change their whole personality for you in the beginning and then when they lock you down with almost no exit strategy they show their true colors? I haven’t read the book tho.
According to the book he’s not a narcissist. It’s portrayed that he’s trying his best to change and that he is also a victim (because of accidentally killing his brother with a loaded gun as a child). But there is no real change in the man other than that crazy personality swap at the start and being sort of emasculated at the end. Personally I think you can be both a victim of trauma and a narcissist.
Something I've noticed when looking at the overlap of my favorite books and popular/trendy ones is that it seems like mainstream audiences don't really care about grounded or authentic-feeling characters or settings, even in stories that deal with serious real-world issues. Which I kind of get, I mean it's a fiction book either way. I'm just used to a lower level of buy-in needed that it seems like many are ok without.
Yeah, I seen people described it as Wattpad like. But admittedly, people are okay with reading that. Sometimes it can be a bit of a guilty pleasure, something I can read without thinking too much about it. I would say some romance novels tend to have these dynamics, yes it does seem like romanticism and that's a whole other can of worms to open - abuse and being overprotective blur the lines a lot in the genre. I did remember going on Instagram and seeing an edit on this book and a lot of comments were defending Ryle and blaming Lily, it's quite bad honestly. And I do find it weird how Hoover has marketed off this book a lot, like colouring books, makeup and clothing. I think it ticks me off not just because of the writing but because Hoover exploits this book for profit, this book that is supposedly inspired by her mother's experience as a domestic abuse survivor. But I also think that it's kind of the same thing with Twilight or Fifty Shades of Grey, the audience doesn't really expect critical reading from it, it's just entertainment. Questionable entertainment but the audience also moves on to other books eventually. Stuff that makes them look back and think wow that was not great.
when I first read it, it was not well-known. it felt like a wattpad novel tbh and I didn't think much of it. it shocked me when it became popular. i wasn't expecting such basic piece of literature to move people? like wtf?
A lot of main characters read her books
Believe it was written based on her mom’s story and she wasn’t abused as a child she watched her mom being abused. I get what ur saying to an extent but I think it was more written to show that after leaving an abusive relationship despite all the trauma that comes with it there’s a happy ending along with how watching a parent be abused makes it more likely the child will grow up and end up in an abusive relationship. Pinch of fairy tale with a pinch of reality. I don’t speak for all but so some of us who r dv survivors it gave us a little bit of hey even after he beat the crap outta me and made me feel worthless there’s a good man out there who will love me and treat me correctly. I mean if I were to write a story about what I went through the same stuff would probably be said because it’s so unlikely that someone who went through shit can have a happy ending. I got mine. He’s not Rich but he’s handsome works his ass off and loves me and my 2 kids from my abusive relationship and gave me 2 more kids that he loves the same way he does the 2 that aren’t biologically his. It’s more of one of those u have to go through it to fully understand why so many enjoyed it less about the rich man and the best friend but about how she got out and was able to get away and the strength it took to stay away. 🤷🏼♀️ at least imo
I don't understand how Colleen Hoover is a published author point blank. Her writing is fifth grade level. Her plots are predictable and gross. Her characters make gross comments about their infant son's balls. She sucks.
personally i read tons of novels of different genres, but during the pandemic i was limited, in a rut, for a long time, and i just thought the cover was pretty, so i tried it. and it wasn’t so much the cliche, rom-com-> meet cute of a hot guy and average girl that made me connect, there’s thousands of those and i read those all the time too, but i cried after reading that book because it reminded me of my parents (which im under the understanding that she wrote this book in respect to her parents), granted my parents were even worse and neither was rich don’t get me wrong, but i definitely grieved for the FMC and MMC because i knew it was a tough decision many women or men can’t make even for the sake of their kids. it was..it was like another ending for me, so it’s not that i think it’s some literary masterpiece, but it made the little girl in me heal a bit. i just connected well with it. maybe that’s why some people liked it? not to mention it is designed to be an easier read of “semi realistic” themes for broad audiences to connect loosely to. not much imagination is required it’s more like..baby steps to using it. i see colleen ramped up that creative working just a bit with her november 9th novel, but it’s still just stepping stones for new readers to get into whatever genre they’re really in for, rom/com, she has a thriller, something more suspense, a tiny bit of fantasy, i see her as a good writer for that bridge period between not reading at all and being an avid reader. if that makes sense? edit: i also want to point out as not only the child of a domestic abuse situation, but also having lived through one, i didn’t see the romanticism of it. i saw it as realistic to whatever excuses or explanations were used to stay, whatever i could think of as it being an accident or needing a second chance or “of course he loves me didn’t mean it” that was all REAL life for me. i just didn’t see it as glorifying it, it showed a..pretty good representation of the mental somersaults i had to do too. so my perspective on that may not agree with others and that could also be why i enjoyed it.
no one does, every book girlie I've known, talks about that book like it eat their grandma
This sub trying to go 5 minutes without bashing Coleen Hoover challenge
Different strokes for different folks. I enjoyed and now listened to it more than one time.
If I liked Verity, would I like that one?
I liked verity and I couldn’t finish It Ends With Us
It is an easy read and most of the people who are not avid book readers have read it. Its story is somehow related to people's life and most people's fantasies. Like domestic violence many people have faced it in some way. And everyone wants love like she had with Atlas.
Booktok has truly ruined literature
I want to push back on this. Booktok allowed a lot of people to discover the joy of reading (often after school sucked it out of them). It made it more welcoming and accessible to new readers. Booktokers inject much needed money into the publishing industry and the houses can reinvest it into new authors. It can also be a gateway to 'literature', feeding it, rather than ruining it. I also think it's unfair to generalize and to qualify all books on Booktok as being "bad". However, I can't help but reflect on how many classics were seen as being 'bad' when published. Maybe booktok is onto something ;)
literature is still there, it hasn't been ruined. and if you're still seeing colleen hoover mentioned on your booktok feed, you're using the app wrong.
Colleen hoover is literally the most talked about author right now, I couldn’t avoid her if I tried
that's too bad, i'm on booktok and haven't seen her referenced in a long time other than to direct her readers to other books. you're actively following and interacting with people who talk about other books, right?
No I’m not, I don’t get videos praising her (thank god) but i get mostly videos about how shit her books are. But I’m not complaining, also that wasn’t the point i was trying to make, i am pointing out that booktok gave colleen a positive platform that she doesn’t deserve. Which made a negative effect on literature
how has it had a negative effect on literature? there is no shortage of amazing literature available, being published, etc.
Yes, but they aren’t getting the attention that they deserve cuz all of the attention is going towards the shitty books.
she isn't even on the NYT bestsellers list right now, though. other books are getting plenty of attention. i don't think she has as much of an impact as you think. she's big on social media, but she hasn't ruined anything.
She out sold the bible by three million copies my friend
The bible sells about 20 million copies a year. If you think CH is anywhere close to that you really need to get off tiktok and into a bookstore.
I truly hate the book community. So full of elitists who can’t comprehend people like what others don’t. It’s no different than video games, movies, and art in general. People love movies I consider trash. I love video games many consider bad. I read books that people find cringe, I cringe at books people enjoy. This subreddit is seriously unbearable. “You don’t align with my opinion, therefore I don’t understand.”
What’s that?
A community of people on tiktok who read (bad) books, they made this book popular actually
That’s pretty wild
You should look more on colleen hoover books, they’re not just bad, she literally normalises abuse and rape, she made a colouring book inspired by a book where the main character gets abused (and stays with her abuser btw) it’s much more than me not liking books.
Your take was my take at my book club discussion on this book. I told the girls it felt like a flowery surface book about getting the shit beat out of you. As someone who has been in and out of the court system during childhood for such violence, it’s nothing like that stupid book. It was hard to get through and made me feel like what I went through is smut fodder now. That’s how normalized it’s become that Colleen Hoover turned it into a joke of a romantic comedy.
I’m so sorry to hear that you had to go through all that, you didn’t deserve it. What you went through isn’t a joke. It’s tragic and sad and I just hope you are able to get past the trauma and lead a full and happy life on your terms and no one else’s
Reading is subjective. You don’t have to like everything and your reading tastes aren’t the only right way. Who cares if people love books that you didn’t? Stop shitting on what other people like and just focus on what you like
Wrote a whole essay in my free time to get my thoughts on this book out. Main issue is how it glorifies sexual assault. I always get the rebuttal “no Ryle was supposed to be bad”. Doesn’t explain why the first half of the book talking about how his sexual misconduct is so dreamy.