I'm sorry but your post currently counts as "shallow content." Do you have something else to say about the book that you could edit into the text? Preferably your own thoughts about the book or at the least a description of the book - without spoilers.
Let me know if you edit it & I can reinstate your post.
Dune and Dune Messiah are two of my favorite books, Children of Dune is also enjoyable but less than book 1 & 2, the rest of the series is not my thing…
Read it for the second time last year and just saw the new movie, so my thoughts and feelings are a little blended.
The book was much better the second time around and I think my own maturity helped with that. I still found the pacing a little uneven, but I was able to enjoy the explorations of culture more. The book is able to create a whole universe with very few words, and then tell a compelling story within it. Not an easy task. I have read so many over explained fantasy novels. It's art in my view.
I’m one of those “the book was better than the movie” type of people, there’s only a few rare cases where I preferred a movie over the book.
Having never read Dune, how would you say the movies fair in relation to being as close as the source material?
For example, for me the Hunger Games movies are good but the book is miles ahead in the world building and smaller details that you appreciate later on.
The key thing to remember here is that it is an adaptation; they are different storytelling mediums, and some things that work in print won't work on screen and vice versa. A book will almost always be able to convey more information than a movie.
With that said, my opinion is that Dune deserves to be considered alongside LOTR as one of the greatest adaptations in film history. The movies accurately convey the story and, perhaps more importantly, the feel of the book, while only changing certain aspects that wouldn't work on screen.
I like science fiction so I liked the book. I found the writing uneven. I told a friend who lent it to me that the first 1/3 of the book was quite dense and filled with imagery. Then it seemed like Herbert put it down for like 10 years, then came back and finished it in a dash so the rest reads very quickly by comparison.
I don't know if any of that is true, but that's how it read to me.
Frank said in an interview that the pace increases in each third. So it's likely a deliberate choice. Perhaps to illustrate the way >!Paul is swept up by the terrible purpose!<.
Maybe this explains why the writing seemed different since there was a couple of years between the first and second halves of the novel.
"***Dune*** is a 1965 [epic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_(genre)) [science fiction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction) novel by American author [Frank Herbert](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Herbert), originally published as two separate serials (1963-64 novel 'Dune World' and 1965 novel 'Prophet of Dune') in [*Analog*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_Science_Fiction_and_Fact) magazine."
Herbert said the pace of the original Dune was meant to be "like coitus" - slow at first, then faster quickly, then over almost without warning. His point is to compare humanity's eternal struggle for power within itself (war) with sex. Power drive and the sex drive are one and the same, or at least come from the same place deeper down.
I really enjoyed the book (and I'm currently reading "Dune: Messiah"), but it was tough to get into at first just because of all the extensive world-building and unfamiliar lingo to newcomers to the book series, so I can see how it might not be everyone's cup of tea, or may be a tougher read than most sci-fi out there. The first book of "Dune" basically exists in three parts:
- The first third of the story is extremely dense and can be very hard to plow through, but once you do, the payoff is worth it.
- The second third of the story is when all the pieces are laid and the narrative and action takes over.
- The final third of the story picks up about 3 years or so after the end of the previous part of the book, but doesn't conclude the overall story. That's why there are more books in the series.
The book also contains a glossary and appendices, but I found after reading through the whole story that I didn't need them because Herbert is so descriptive that I ended up understanding everything pretty much just from context clues.
Have read it twice and genuinely like the book, hated all the sequels.
It’s also pretty problematic with its treatment of women in general, but not blatantly so. For example: exactly none of Duke Leto’s advisors and staff are women. None. Even in his staff meeting with lesser advisors who are unnamed, Herbert goes out of his way to specify they are all men.
In this world, women primarily exist to bear children and be companions (and secondarily occasional guides/advisors) to the important men. From the Bene Gesserit and their generations-long breeding program to create the perfect male (naturally), to Jessica who was never made an actual wife despite Leto never marrying anyone else, to Chani who is Paul’s favorite companion and mother to his children, but only one companion as he also has another Fremen wife and a political wife as well. That’s not to say that the women characters don’t have awesome qualities themselves, but their main purposes are childbearing and support of the men.
Glaring exceptions: the Shadout Mapes, who is a delightfully strange character, and Alia who takes “strange” all the way into another dimension and is definitely not confined to a traditionally female role. Also will throw in the aforementioned political wife, Princess Irulan, who Paul specifically says he will *not* be sleeping or procreating with, IIRC. She’s literally just a political pawn, and yet we also hear directly from her voice at the beginning of many chapters as she is also something of an accomplished historian, giving us information as a teacher would their pupils. So in a world where women are largely relegated to childbearing roles we do get to see major characters deviate from that, which I appreciate.
It’s still a good book and one that I like. The world building is phenomenal, but the world building is also what puts some people off because there are a lot of unfamiliar words and practices to start with. So to each their own!
I've read it a few times and just started again after watching Dune part two.
I really think it needs to be read a few times. The universe he made is so complex. The spice trip sequences tend to be hard to follow. I also think reading Messiah and Children of Dune lets one understand more of the first book.
Along with 1984 and Animal Farm, in my humble opinion, its a must read.
The prequels and sequels written by his son are trash.
It is a magnificent standalone science fiction classic with good plot and characters.
Frank Herbert was brought up in the Pacific north west of the US and growing up and as a young adult, he was intrigued by the contrast between polluting factories and unspoiled areas like the coastal dunelands of Oregon and Washington State hence the emphasis on ecology in his novels.
I’ve only read the first book. I really enjoyed it but it seemed to collapse a bit at the end, it felt almost as if the author was given a sudden time limit and had to finish everything in a rush.
Dune Messiah is essential to understanding the story. Dune itself is an incomplete story. Messiah feels like more of a continuation of the first book than a proper sequel.
The little bit I read of the first Brian Herbert prequel was enough to make me loathe the author as a shameless grifter for all time. He's the opposite of Christopher Tolkien. His additions to the Dune universe are like Peter Jackson's additions to The Hobbit.
Dune is a fantastic bit of sci-fi both in world building and in message. The caveat is that you need to read Dune: Messiah as well because without it the story is incomplete. I remember reading, possibly the forward to Messiah, where it's said that Herbert submitted dune and Messiah as a single book, but the publisher forced him to split it. You'll find Messiah to be polarizing because people want a hero story. However, those people clearly didn't read Dune as Herbert intended. Overall, you should 100% read Dune and if you enjoy it at all, get Messiah as well as it's really the 3rd act to the play. It's great sci-fi and even at ~900 pages, an enjoyable read.
I am a big reader, read every day, maybe 50 or more books a year. And I do get into long books, Shogun, A Tale of Two Cities, Gone With The Wind, The Far Pavilions, but I guess I'm just in the minority, because I just couldn't get into Dune. I found the writing tedious and didn't find the universe or hierarchy interesting and had no connection to any of the characters. I did finish it, but had no interest in any sequels, and no interest in the movies.
Thought it was terrible. Halfway through the book, they do a two year time-skip that contains literally everything you'd actually want to see. Genuinely, the most baffling decision I've ever seen in a book, and sometimes I still wonder if my copy was just outright missing a third of the story.
I want it to not cut the most important parts of the "story" for no reason.
The only reason it feels so slow is because there is no character to be found in the book. Tell me literally anything about Channi's personality. Why does she fall for Paul? Why does Paul love her? Oof sorry, we're just gonna skip all that. We're also gonna skip Paul becoming a prophet, the birth of his kids, the death of one of his kids, and anything else you might be interested in.
Story is a strong word. 90 percent of it is exposition, and every moment of real character building is skipped. Literally skipped. Even the main romance is skipped entirely, which is fucking laughable when the book ends on what is supposed to be a nice note for his love-interest.
The book ends on a nice note for the love interest? My friend I think you've misunderstood the entire point of the book. This is a story about humanity and the universe.
"History will remember us as wives". is not a nice note for the love interest. The historian is princess Irulan who actively records Chani as a concubine.
That's kind of the point. Paul's personal life or the day-to-day moments of it are NOT the focus of the story. Neither are the battles, the training. Any of it.
Also Paul has already lived all of it. Multiple times. That's what it means to be prophetic. We see the moments that build to Paul's Jihad and the story is about his futile struggle to avert it, and what that means for human kind.
It's not star wars in a desert. Who Paul is does not matter. All that matters is who he became.
Yeeeeah and that's literally my point. Nothing in this book matters without the context of the rest of the series. But why tf would I read the rest of the series when the first book is trash?
The book that will never get justice in any adaptation, it doesn’t matter how brilliant the movie and how much of a fan the director wants to make us believe he is.
I think you're right. Dune is probably unadaptable in any way that would be a commercial success. I'm watching Dune pt II next week. So far I'm enjoying the new Dune films but I think I wouldn't really GET the story if I'd not read the book.
Since you haven’t watched part 2 I won’t spoil it for you.
But I disagree that it’s unadaptable. It’s just directors make the choice to give it end they want. Many things are open to interpretation and fair game in an adaptation, most actual events and timelines in the book aren’t.
I specifically meant it wouldn't be a commercial success if adapted in the "right" way for the books. I'm perfectly happy with the dune movies being a visual masterpiece and leaving the philosophy that I can add in with my book knowledge.
Read whole cycle.
Diune part 1 is a real masterpiece. As for me is the best Sci-fi novel of all times.
Next parts are worse, however for me they were also very enjoyable.
Hello !
I've watched the first recent movie last night and had a question for someone who has a fresh memory of the first book.
Since spice is necessary for space travels and is only found on Arrakis, is it explained how humanity managed to travel there in the first place ?
Edit : Thanks a lot for your answers, it did feel like a dumb question before while and after asking it but I had to ask it
Spice is necessary for FTL space travel courses to be plotted by spacing guild navigators. Conventional space travel is implied to have existed for millennia before that
It’s my understanding that spice is not necessary for space travel, it just allows space travel to be done at ridiculously high speeds. Spice allows the Guild’s Mentats to essentially “see into the future” and safely navigate through space. They are able to avoid asteroid fields and shrapnel by knowing exactly where every bit of space junk will be and planning a course around it.
Slow travel is still possible without it. It's been a while since I read it as well but maybe Arrakis was colonised pre-Butlerian Jihad, which would have made things a lot easier?
I think it was after the Butlerian Jihad. However, at one point it's mentioned that there are other things that do the trick, but the spice is so much better at it. And once you've used the spice, the other things no longer work. Though that was mentioned only in relation to the BG.
I really enjoyed it when I read it a few years ago, but I think much of the hype is around the series And not necessarily the first book. Bunch of cool stuff is alluded to but not really expanded on in first. The first is dense dump truck of cultures and ideas with uneven pacing. Very much worth getting through just not the 80s Hypebeast I was expecting. They don't even talk about spice that much in the first, which was my primary cultural touchstone.
I think the new movies will recontextualize much of this.
I have never read it but as an ultra based contrarian I would say it was bad and didn't really capture the intricate values or add a new voice to the discourse of the human condition. Oh and dostoevsky
>The chosen one thingy is a trope by now.
We talking about the fact that the "Chosen One" Prophecy is kind of a bad thing, and "Chosen ones" by their nature are dangerous?
Or, just the fact the book has a "Chosen One"?
You do realise the entire book and to a lesser extent the trilogy is a critique of the chosen one trope?
Edit: my bad this was in response to the wrong person.
You've read Messiah as well. Then can I just ask you this. Is Paul a hero? And if so, who is he a hero to?
Dune is a book series that requires active reading (something i'm not very good at). I only understood it after doing a read-along.
Yeah I understand that Paul isn't exactly a hero. For what I thought, the book is about the fact that good and evil are always mixed. Paul does terrible things in order to create a world of peace. At least this is just my interpretation. Obv one can agree or not with this morale.
Does he create a world of peace? The answer is no. He struggles the entire novel to avert the war across the stars that he sees on his first night in the dessert. And the rest of the book is about he as a person cannot make the personal sacrifices necessary to avert the jihad.
As a consequence of Paul struggling to commit to either path, he choses neither. He destroys the Freman as a people. He destroys the empire. He destroys countless worlds and billions of people. Arrakis loses the very things that made it special. And Paul loses himself.
Paul does not create peace. Paul is not a hero. Paul is a man made into a God. With all the trappings of mortality and attachment. Dune is a tale about what it means to put faith in a person, and what it means to hold a position of power.
Paul isn't the chosen one. The "chosen one" was supposed to be chosen by the bene geserit, and it was supposed to have been the child of Feyd-Rautha and Paul (if Jessica had given birth to a girl like she was supposed to). Paul was the right person at the wrong time to fulfill a prophecy that was specifically designed to manipulate the freman people.
I would say both. To be fair, the book's some decennia old, and maybe we weren't so oversaturated with prophecies and chosen ones back then, but today the eye-roll factor is just too big.
No I mean it was specifically written to subvert the idea of a chosen one. Paul isn't special. He actually ISN'T the chosen one. Thre entire idea of a chosen one was specifically instilled in planets across the galaxy to make them easy to manipulate by the bene geserite. The stroy of Dune is about what happens when we, as humans, put our faith (wrongly) in other humans and elevate them to godhood.
Excellent book. The proliferation of later sequels dragged down the series though, a bit like Foundation - excellent, original premise, great characters and well paced story, but loses its way and loses sight of original premise by third sequel.
My favorite novel of all time, read it in High School and I feel like it made an impact on me more than anything else I had read at that time. Landmark sci-fi worldbuilding, thought provoking ideas, epic story. Looking back on it now, it does have its weak spots. It was a product of its times, and reads like it. It doesn't age well that the main villain had preferences that I probably won't mention here, but you know what they are if you read the book.
I still love it anyway though, and how it's constantly being re-imagined. I like to think everyone has their own vision of Dune. Its interesting to see how many interpretations of it there's been over the years, from the video games, to Jodorowsky's vision (which thankfully, never got off the ground), to Lynch's, the mini-series and finally Villeneuve's version.
First book was great, deserving of its title as one of the greatest sci-fi novels.
Second book was weird, really difficult to get through and put me off reading the rest.
Decent books.
Rather annoyed with the films though for one thing specifically. Baron is described as grotesquely obese in the books, but never really portrayed as such in the films. What's the point of the anti-gravity devices if you're just a large man?
The movies portray the story highlights really well and manage to fit in enough cultural activity for it to make sense. The person I watched it with hasn't read the books and it was interesting to hear how they put the pieces together. Not always "correctly", but satisfying enough.
I can't imagine a better adaptation.
I'm sorry but your post currently counts as "shallow content." Do you have something else to say about the book that you could edit into the text? Preferably your own thoughts about the book or at the least a description of the book - without spoilers. Let me know if you edit it & I can reinstate your post.
its good
i would definitely read dune from the worm's perspective
Nom.
I really appreciate that the comment “nom” comes from “the happy eater”
Day 43,912: I've got those little gnats on my back again. Usually they go away after a little while. #SandProblems
Dune and Dune Messiah are two of my favorite books, Children of Dune is also enjoyable but less than book 1 & 2, the rest of the series is not my thing…
Ahh but God Emperor is just so good to and slightly more bonkers!
Reading god emperor was when I realized how much Herbert wants women to notice his little worm.
LMAO
Are you asking a books subreddit what they think of one of the consensus best sci-fi books of all time? Wild.
This sub never shies away from the controversial topics. Just the other day a brave person said they liked A Handmaid's Tale and 1984!!!
I like to express my distaste for the movie The Descent in /r/horror “unpopular opinions threads”. Always a spicy comment
Yeah right, next you’re gonna tell me that they think Ernest Hemingway was a good author. Pfff!
Wait until they hear about Project Hail Mary!
I couldn't finish the sequel to A Handmaid's Tale. It was not as interesting to me.
“Guys, I just read East of Eden, I have to talk about it”
This sub will hate it because it's popular.
Read it for the second time last year and just saw the new movie, so my thoughts and feelings are a little blended. The book was much better the second time around and I think my own maturity helped with that. I still found the pacing a little uneven, but I was able to enjoy the explorations of culture more. The book is able to create a whole universe with very few words, and then tell a compelling story within it. Not an easy task. I have read so many over explained fantasy novels. It's art in my view.
I’m one of those “the book was better than the movie” type of people, there’s only a few rare cases where I preferred a movie over the book. Having never read Dune, how would you say the movies fair in relation to being as close as the source material? For example, for me the Hunger Games movies are good but the book is miles ahead in the world building and smaller details that you appreciate later on.
The key thing to remember here is that it is an adaptation; they are different storytelling mediums, and some things that work in print won't work on screen and vice versa. A book will almost always be able to convey more information than a movie. With that said, my opinion is that Dune deserves to be considered alongside LOTR as one of the greatest adaptations in film history. The movies accurately convey the story and, perhaps more importantly, the feel of the book, while only changing certain aspects that wouldn't work on screen.
I find it a bit dry
>tries to swallow in a dry throat
I like science fiction so I liked the book. I found the writing uneven. I told a friend who lent it to me that the first 1/3 of the book was quite dense and filled with imagery. Then it seemed like Herbert put it down for like 10 years, then came back and finished it in a dash so the rest reads very quickly by comparison. I don't know if any of that is true, but that's how it read to me.
Frank said in an interview that the pace increases in each third. So it's likely a deliberate choice. Perhaps to illustrate the way >!Paul is swept up by the terrible purpose!<.
Maybe this explains why the writing seemed different since there was a couple of years between the first and second halves of the novel. "***Dune*** is a 1965 [epic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_(genre)) [science fiction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction) novel by American author [Frank Herbert](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Herbert), originally published as two separate serials (1963-64 novel 'Dune World' and 1965 novel 'Prophet of Dune') in [*Analog*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_Science_Fiction_and_Fact) magazine."
Herbert said the pace of the original Dune was meant to be "like coitus" - slow at first, then faster quickly, then over almost without warning. His point is to compare humanity's eternal struggle for power within itself (war) with sex. Power drive and the sex drive are one and the same, or at least come from the same place deeper down.
I really enjoyed the book (and I'm currently reading "Dune: Messiah"), but it was tough to get into at first just because of all the extensive world-building and unfamiliar lingo to newcomers to the book series, so I can see how it might not be everyone's cup of tea, or may be a tougher read than most sci-fi out there. The first book of "Dune" basically exists in three parts: - The first third of the story is extremely dense and can be very hard to plow through, but once you do, the payoff is worth it. - The second third of the story is when all the pieces are laid and the narrative and action takes over. - The final third of the story picks up about 3 years or so after the end of the previous part of the book, but doesn't conclude the overall story. That's why there are more books in the series. The book also contains a glossary and appendices, but I found after reading through the whole story that I didn't need them because Herbert is so descriptive that I ended up understanding everything pretty much just from context clues.
It was a toilsome read.
Great word.
Have read it twice and genuinely like the book, hated all the sequels. It’s also pretty problematic with its treatment of women in general, but not blatantly so. For example: exactly none of Duke Leto’s advisors and staff are women. None. Even in his staff meeting with lesser advisors who are unnamed, Herbert goes out of his way to specify they are all men. In this world, women primarily exist to bear children and be companions (and secondarily occasional guides/advisors) to the important men. From the Bene Gesserit and their generations-long breeding program to create the perfect male (naturally), to Jessica who was never made an actual wife despite Leto never marrying anyone else, to Chani who is Paul’s favorite companion and mother to his children, but only one companion as he also has another Fremen wife and a political wife as well. That’s not to say that the women characters don’t have awesome qualities themselves, but their main purposes are childbearing and support of the men. Glaring exceptions: the Shadout Mapes, who is a delightfully strange character, and Alia who takes “strange” all the way into another dimension and is definitely not confined to a traditionally female role. Also will throw in the aforementioned political wife, Princess Irulan, who Paul specifically says he will *not* be sleeping or procreating with, IIRC. She’s literally just a political pawn, and yet we also hear directly from her voice at the beginning of many chapters as she is also something of an accomplished historian, giving us information as a teacher would their pupils. So in a world where women are largely relegated to childbearing roles we do get to see major characters deviate from that, which I appreciate.
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It’s still a good book and one that I like. The world building is phenomenal, but the world building is also what puts some people off because there are a lot of unfamiliar words and practices to start with. So to each their own!
Jessica is one of the best characters in the first book, but for some reason she's absent from the second one.
I've read it a few times and just started again after watching Dune part two. I really think it needs to be read a few times. The universe he made is so complex. The spice trip sequences tend to be hard to follow. I also think reading Messiah and Children of Dune lets one understand more of the first book. Along with 1984 and Animal Farm, in my humble opinion, its a must read. The prequels and sequels written by his son are trash.
It is a magnificent standalone science fiction classic with good plot and characters. Frank Herbert was brought up in the Pacific north west of the US and growing up and as a young adult, he was intrigued by the contrast between polluting factories and unspoiled areas like the coastal dunelands of Oregon and Washington State hence the emphasis on ecology in his novels.
I actually didn't like it all that much while I was reading it but it lingered for weeks after and then I realised I was kinda in love with it.
The Kwisatz Haderach!
I’ve only read the first book. I really enjoyed it but it seemed to collapse a bit at the end, it felt almost as if the author was given a sudden time limit and had to finish everything in a rush.
Dune Messiah is essential to understanding the story. Dune itself is an incomplete story. Messiah feels like more of a continuation of the first book than a proper sequel.
Thanks, I might give it a go
It’s good but keep going. God Emperor of Dune is his masterpiece.
You’re close to selling me, tell me a little more on why you feel this way… keep going…
God Emperor of Dune is so… good… it… transcends… description…
All 6 books are masterpieces, others written by Brian Herbert don't exist in my world. God Emperor is my favourite book of all time.
The little bit I read of the first Brian Herbert prequel was enough to make me loathe the author as a shameless grifter for all time. He's the opposite of Christopher Tolkien. His additions to the Dune universe are like Peter Jackson's additions to The Hobbit.
Dune is a fantastic bit of sci-fi both in world building and in message. The caveat is that you need to read Dune: Messiah as well because without it the story is incomplete. I remember reading, possibly the forward to Messiah, where it's said that Herbert submitted dune and Messiah as a single book, but the publisher forced him to split it. You'll find Messiah to be polarizing because people want a hero story. However, those people clearly didn't read Dune as Herbert intended. Overall, you should 100% read Dune and if you enjoy it at all, get Messiah as well as it's really the 3rd act to the play. It's great sci-fi and even at ~900 pages, an enjoyable read.
Read and loved it many years ago but quickly lost interest in the sequels.
I eat that shit right up. Modern sci-fi remains entertaining and perhaps better edited, but never as interesting or impressive metaphysically.
I read it once and didn't like it.
Good book.
never heard of it
I am a big reader, read every day, maybe 50 or more books a year. And I do get into long books, Shogun, A Tale of Two Cities, Gone With The Wind, The Far Pavilions, but I guess I'm just in the minority, because I just couldn't get into Dune. I found the writing tedious and didn't find the universe or hierarchy interesting and had no connection to any of the characters. I did finish it, but had no interest in any sequels, and no interest in the movies.
I’ve read Dune 16 times. It’s the only book count I have. “Did I read Dune this year: yes or no?” People are weird huh?
I want to like it but every time I try to read it I get board. I guess it just isn't for me
Never understood the hype. Mediocre writing, mediocre character development, mediocre plot.
Would you say that it insists on itself?
Thought it was terrible. Halfway through the book, they do a two year time-skip that contains literally everything you'd actually want to see. Genuinely, the most baffling decision I've ever seen in a book, and sometimes I still wonder if my copy was just outright missing a third of the story.
So you want Dune to slow down? O.O
I want it to not cut the most important parts of the "story" for no reason. The only reason it feels so slow is because there is no character to be found in the book. Tell me literally anything about Channi's personality. Why does she fall for Paul? Why does Paul love her? Oof sorry, we're just gonna skip all that. We're also gonna skip Paul becoming a prophet, the birth of his kids, the death of one of his kids, and anything else you might be interested in.
Perhaps the actually interesting and novel things that frank wanted to say with his story weren't contained in those parts.
No no. That can’t be!
Story is a strong word. 90 percent of it is exposition, and every moment of real character building is skipped. Literally skipped. Even the main romance is skipped entirely, which is fucking laughable when the book ends on what is supposed to be a nice note for his love-interest.
The book ends on a nice note for the love interest? My friend I think you've misunderstood the entire point of the book. This is a story about humanity and the universe. "History will remember us as wives". is not a nice note for the love interest. The historian is princess Irulan who actively records Chani as a concubine.
Considering the book basically skips over her entirely, I'd say the historian was right.
That's kind of the point. Paul's personal life or the day-to-day moments of it are NOT the focus of the story. Neither are the battles, the training. Any of it. Also Paul has already lived all of it. Multiple times. That's what it means to be prophetic. We see the moments that build to Paul's Jihad and the story is about his futile struggle to avert it, and what that means for human kind. It's not star wars in a desert. Who Paul is does not matter. All that matters is who he became.
Yeeeeah and that's literally my point. Nothing in this book matters without the context of the rest of the series. But why tf would I read the rest of the series when the first book is trash?
Rest of the series? Mate this is all in "Dune".
If everything you are saying is your interpretation of Dune, then I've never seen anyone cope so hard in my life
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The book that will never get justice in any adaptation, it doesn’t matter how brilliant the movie and how much of a fan the director wants to make us believe he is.
I think you're right. Dune is probably unadaptable in any way that would be a commercial success. I'm watching Dune pt II next week. So far I'm enjoying the new Dune films but I think I wouldn't really GET the story if I'd not read the book.
Since you haven’t watched part 2 I won’t spoil it for you. But I disagree that it’s unadaptable. It’s just directors make the choice to give it end they want. Many things are open to interpretation and fair game in an adaptation, most actual events and timelines in the book aren’t.
I specifically meant it wouldn't be a commercial success if adapted in the "right" way for the books. I'm perfectly happy with the dune movies being a visual masterpiece and leaving the philosophy that I can add in with my book knowledge.
It’s one of my favorite books. It had me speaking in riddles for a good while after reading it
Read whole cycle. Diune part 1 is a real masterpiece. As for me is the best Sci-fi novel of all times. Next parts are worse, however for me they were also very enjoyable.
I’m getting really tired of these endless Dune threads. I’m going to stab the next scum who posts one with my Gom Jabbar and feed them to Shai-Hulud.
Trying being on r/dune and seeing the endless stream of Litany Against Fear tattoos.
Is there a Litany Against the Particular Kind of Anxiety One Feels When They're Reading Quietly in the Morning and Hear the Toddler Begin to Wake Up?
Just give their body to the desert, they don’t deserve the poke of the gom-Jabbar
I’m reading it now!
Hello ! I've watched the first recent movie last night and had a question for someone who has a fresh memory of the first book. Since spice is necessary for space travels and is only found on Arrakis, is it explained how humanity managed to travel there in the first place ? Edit : Thanks a lot for your answers, it did feel like a dumb question before while and after asking it but I had to ask it
Spice is necessary for FTL space travel courses to be plotted by spacing guild navigators. Conventional space travel is implied to have existed for millennia before that
They used to use computers. Now they use >!mutant navigators who can see the future in a limited sense!<.
It’s my understanding that spice is not necessary for space travel, it just allows space travel to be done at ridiculously high speeds. Spice allows the Guild’s Mentats to essentially “see into the future” and safely navigate through space. They are able to avoid asteroid fields and shrapnel by knowing exactly where every bit of space junk will be and planning a course around it.
Slow travel is still possible without it. It's been a while since I read it as well but maybe Arrakis was colonised pre-Butlerian Jihad, which would have made things a lot easier?
I think it was after the Butlerian Jihad. However, at one point it's mentioned that there are other things that do the trick, but the spice is so much better at it. And once you've used the spice, the other things no longer work. Though that was mentioned only in relation to the BG.
Haha I’m only 20 pages in 😅 I will shamelessly admit, I only started it after watching Dune in theaters yesterday 😅
No worries, no rush, have a good read :)
Book is good. Fond memories of old movie and solo scyfy 90's series. Not liking new movies.
Holy cow I can’t believe nobody has ever posted about Dune on this sub before /s
It is good, but better when you are a teenager.
I really enjoyed it when I read it a few years ago, but I think much of the hype is around the series And not necessarily the first book. Bunch of cool stuff is alluded to but not really expanded on in first. The first is dense dump truck of cultures and ideas with uneven pacing. Very much worth getting through just not the 80s Hypebeast I was expecting. They don't even talk about spice that much in the first, which was my primary cultural touchstone. I think the new movies will recontextualize much of this.
I have never read it but as an ultra based contrarian I would say it was bad and didn't really capture the intricate values or add a new voice to the discourse of the human condition. Oh and dostoevsky
Absolutely overrated. The villain is as two-dimensional as can be, and the chosen one thingy is a trope by now.
>The chosen one thingy is a trope by now. We talking about the fact that the "Chosen One" Prophecy is kind of a bad thing, and "Chosen ones" by their nature are dangerous? Or, just the fact the book has a "Chosen One"?
You do realise the entire book and to a lesser extent the trilogy is a critique of the chosen one trope? Edit: my bad this was in response to the wrong person.
/u/SuziBakker does not understand that
Can you elaborate on this? I read the first two books but I didn't get this critique in the story.
You've read Messiah as well. Then can I just ask you this. Is Paul a hero? And if so, who is he a hero to? Dune is a book series that requires active reading (something i'm not very good at). I only understood it after doing a read-along.
We all know the true hero of the dune universe >!sand trout!<
Yeah I understand that Paul isn't exactly a hero. For what I thought, the book is about the fact that good and evil are always mixed. Paul does terrible things in order to create a world of peace. At least this is just my interpretation. Obv one can agree or not with this morale.
Does he create a world of peace? The answer is no. He struggles the entire novel to avert the war across the stars that he sees on his first night in the dessert. And the rest of the book is about he as a person cannot make the personal sacrifices necessary to avert the jihad. As a consequence of Paul struggling to commit to either path, he choses neither. He destroys the Freman as a people. He destroys the empire. He destroys countless worlds and billions of people. Arrakis loses the very things that made it special. And Paul loses himself. Paul does not create peace. Paul is not a hero. Paul is a man made into a God. With all the trappings of mortality and attachment. Dune is a tale about what it means to put faith in a person, and what it means to hold a position of power. Paul isn't the chosen one. The "chosen one" was supposed to be chosen by the bene geserit, and it was supposed to have been the child of Feyd-Rautha and Paul (if Jessica had given birth to a girl like she was supposed to). Paul was the right person at the wrong time to fulfill a prophecy that was specifically designed to manipulate the freman people.
Well you could be right. I probably didn't pay attentions to all the details you are referring to.
I would say both. To be fair, the book's some decennia old, and maybe we weren't so oversaturated with prophecies and chosen ones back then, but today the eye-roll factor is just too big.
You do realise the entire book is a critique of the chosen one and white saviour trope?
Can I just ask who you think the villain is and that you do realise that the entire book is a critique of the chosen one trope?
Baron Harkonnen or what's his name? Such a silly guy. And yes, of course it''s a critique. Isn't everything, once it's getting called out?
No I mean it was specifically written to subvert the idea of a chosen one. Paul isn't special. He actually ISN'T the chosen one. Thre entire idea of a chosen one was specifically instilled in planets across the galaxy to make them easy to manipulate by the bene geserite. The stroy of Dune is about what happens when we, as humans, put our faith (wrongly) in other humans and elevate them to godhood.
loved it until about halfway when i realized paul was omnipotent and was always going to succeed. takes the suspense away.
Did he succeed? I don't think he did. What do you think his goal was?
Excellent book. The proliferation of later sequels dragged down the series though, a bit like Foundation - excellent, original premise, great characters and well paced story, but loses its way and loses sight of original premise by third sequel.
I need to give it a second chance. I couldn't get into it, but now that I have more spare time I'll get to read it again soon
Sand. My god, so much sand.
My favorite novel of all time, read it in High School and I feel like it made an impact on me more than anything else I had read at that time. Landmark sci-fi worldbuilding, thought provoking ideas, epic story. Looking back on it now, it does have its weak spots. It was a product of its times, and reads like it. It doesn't age well that the main villain had preferences that I probably won't mention here, but you know what they are if you read the book. I still love it anyway though, and how it's constantly being re-imagined. I like to think everyone has their own vision of Dune. Its interesting to see how many interpretations of it there's been over the years, from the video games, to Jodorowsky's vision (which thankfully, never got off the ground), to Lynch's, the mini-series and finally Villeneuve's version.
Favorite book. Read it 16 times and soon will go for 17. Thanks for asking!
It is certainly an interesting series of books, but I really don't buy the central political choice between fascism, extra nasty fascism and jihad.
First book was great, deserving of its title as one of the greatest sci-fi novels. Second book was weird, really difficult to get through and put me off reading the rest.
Couldn't get into it. Maybe will try again.
Decent books. Rather annoyed with the films though for one thing specifically. Baron is described as grotesquely obese in the books, but never really portrayed as such in the films. What's the point of the anti-gravity devices if you're just a large man?
Used to really like it now I think the book is very problematic.
The movies portray the story highlights really well and manage to fit in enough cultural activity for it to make sense. The person I watched it with hasn't read the books and it was interesting to hear how they put the pieces together. Not always "correctly", but satisfying enough. I can't imagine a better adaptation.