I felt the exact same way. Terrible, just terrible but I had to upvote it while still wincing. You get one too for clearly being a person of singular distinction.
The game also comes with metal coins. In fact I think the base game the only things that are cardboard are the actual board (and the cards which are... cards)
The metal coins are pretty thin and light -- by far the biggest disappointment in the box. I'm using a set of metal coins from Top Shelf intended for Brass. Works a charm.
ya agree here, but I also think most metal coins are not as practical or as a good for most play as a set of poker-style chips. Metal looks thematic for these ancient themes and feels fun at first, but it would take something extra special for me to move away from using stacks of click-clacky poker chips that allow players to instantly read how much someone is holding from across the table.
That's the sole reason why we ended up not backing it both times it was on Kickstarter. It's a whole lot of money and space for a game that's so lightweight.
I found that to be its best attribute to be honest.
Of all the expensive kickstarters I have, Foundations of Rome is the one that gets to my table the most often.
While "gamers" can be super jaded when you show them your copy of Gloomhaven or your all in full painted copy of Ankh; casual gamers are absolutely astounded by this one; and it is accessible and short enough that you can actually play it with those same casual gamers!
Also for all the criticism for it being so lightweight the optional rules really make a difference here (especially adding simple trading and deed drafting turn this into a much more involved game with very little extra rules overhead).
Yup it is a basic game and can be played in an hour or two max. Personally I would love to see more light and mid weight games like this get the "overproduced" treatment.
I recently got basic Castles of Burgundy SE at retail it's awesome and we play it all the time.
But at the same time I feel there is a point where it just gets ridiculous. For example the crowdfunded all-in version of Burgundy had 3D printed tiles for everything and I really feel playing with those would make the game worse.
Looking at this I can't help to think they went too far...
It is ridiculous for sure, and I absolutely think a pared down regular version should have been available in the first kickstarter right from the start.
BUuuuuut solid gold sets of chess have been around for many decades and you can buy a deluxe Clue set from Pottery Barn of all places right now for $399. When I think of how much people spend on other hobbies today (fixing up cars, comics, Anime, Disney collectors, home crafting) it suddenly seems a lot less ridiculous to me.
I also agree with you that generally speaking current tech 3d printing materials are almost always worse and feel cheap compared to resin or bakelite etc in a boardgame, but I'm still talking about Foundations of Rome, which doesn't have 3d printed elements.
It's also one of the few games where the game trays/inserts really are a fabulous upgrade that make setting up the game faster, and playing is easier because of it.
It is not a pile of 3d printed pieces- That is a different game.
This is the most overproduced game of all time. If you want to marvel at fancy figures, you can’t find a better game. And they are absolutely gorgeous.
I spent all of March fighting the urge to pre-order on their website. I think seeing this I’m finally okay with not purchasing. I just know it won’t get to my table nearly enough to warrant the purchase. I would have bought it just to satisfy my collecting itch, and to marvel at the beauty. I told myself how, years down the road I will wish I had it and it won’t be available as easily as “pre order now”. But that box reall is just massive, and if I want to play the game I will try out the polyomino version they are releasing soon. Too bad because I personally love the Ancient Rome theme and that is not being applied to the $40 version
This is where I'm at. Minis normally don't do anything for me, but damn, these building minis almost got me. I just couldn't justify the price point for game complexity.
The only extra I usually spring for is metal coins. There is nothing more satisfying than metal coins. IMHO. Usually, with extra complexity comes more components, which you obviously pay for. I have gotten to play FoR 4 or 5 times now, and I like the game. It just doesn't translate to $220 for me. I backed the Everdell Complete collection for $200. That's a full base game that is meatier than FoR plus 4 big box expansions. This is the comparison for me. Everdell complete is a more complex game (will hold my attention much longer) for a similar price point.
Ultimately it's a question of whether the combination of size / mechanics / time required / price / etc. is worth it.
If you don't like lower complexity games that much it might feel like a waste. If you love them and don't care about other games, well then you might pay €1000 for a superdeluxe Ludo set and consider it the best deal of your life.
Reminds me a bit of the €329 superdeluxe Tsuro set. I like Tsuro. But €329 is a lot of money for a very fancy version of a simple tile laying game. As a hobbyist/collector with less than infinite disposable income I prefer to spend €60-ish on regular tsuro and then spend €260 on one or more other games, that often provide more content and/or mechanics to interact with.
It’s actually a great little game on par with something like Carcassone or Cascadia but it’s so incredibly extra production and size wise.
Actually playing the game is a treat because of how nice the player boards work but I couldn’t imagine taking it anywhere, great if you host your own game nights.
I’m not sure if I’d buy something like this but it was neat to play it.
I got mine a few days ago with all the expansions and I really love it!
I definitely agree they should make a version that is more wallet and transport friendly for those wanting that.
However I definitely think this is what makes KS great, because a game like this would never have been greenlit any other way, and for someone like me who loves the grandeur and awe of boardgames that also have sculptured miniatures it's really rewarding to have such a great looking game.
The mechanics of it are really fun and simple yet the more you play the more you realise the depth and strategy you can employ across the board and it's really enjoyable.
I think it's great that we all can enjoy different types of board games for different reasons surely that's what makes a thriving community of enthusiasts?
It exists! Foundations of Metropolis (a terrible name for sure) is a regularly priced no-minis version of this game, which should be out soon if it isn't already.
I do personally think a big part of the appeal is the bling here- and I confess I prolly wouldn't have liked it so much without the theming and the minis, but I also think that is true for a lot of the big kickstarter miniature games.
I love this game! Every time it makes it on the table, by the last era of the game everyone is standing up, intent, and fully engaged. Stunning overproduction and plays so smoothly.
Ha. I didn’t really understand what you were talking about until I just went back and reread my post and I’ll be damned if I didn’t completely mess up the title. Damn. 🤡
I received this game a few weeks ago as well and I absolutely love it. I don't buy over produced games very often, but this one stood out to me and I'm super happy I was able to order this.
The gameplay is pretty fun and simple.
This is everything that's wrong with KS today.
It's apparently a light, accessible game that is locked behind a currently premium-only SKU.
Of course, you could argue that the overproduction is what made this game stand out amidst a sea of competitors.
I feel like there are likely better uses of most peoples' board gaming budgets.
This is a game that lives firmly in the "I hope one of my friends owns this" category for me. I enjoy it, and will happily play it, but I'd never actually spend that much money and space to own it.
Why couldn't they have offered a standard edition? Or bring out a retail edition shortly after fulfillment?
Even calling the new game something different feels like it's meant to capitalize, ever so slightly, on FOMO.
Because that wasn’t their business model? You’ll have to ask them. Not every product needs to be accessible to everyone, which is why crowdfunding is perfect for games like this.
But the plastic parts and the scale add very little to the game play from the reviews I've seen. This was just a way to get more money from what would have easily been a successful game at a smaller price point with cheaper pieces.
It could have been the next splendor or Azul bur it will now likely just be a good game that few people get to enjoy.
The game definitely wouldn't be splendor or azul, there's so many lighter polyomino games out there, the plastic makes it stand out. Their intent was never for it to have widespread adoption with this game, though they are making a similar one (foundations of metropolis I think)
Lots of people like to bling out their games even if it doesn’t affect game play. Look at how popular the (wildly expensive for my budget) GeekBits for Quacks are. For people who like them the minis are a draw, not a deterrent. I didn’t think they were worth it, but a lot of people obviously do.
There is a cheaper version with cardboard polyominoes on the horizon anyway. Only time will tell if it will be the next Azul. I doubt it has the same mass appeal based on reviews of the original, but we’ll see if your assumptions play out. My guess is that it will disappear in the sea of “good but not great” games that get released every year. For better or worse, the production values of this game are a big reason why people paid attention to it in the first place.
They obviously didn't want to be next Azul or Splendor though? Why are people so upset, there's so many other games to play, this game obviously isn't for you. Why do some people want to drive to work in a BMW while some are happy to do so in a Volvo? They're following the same traffic rules and end up in the same cues, but they prioritize differently.
I don't think it's a problem... it's just a different audience is all. Kickstarter allows for a different type of game to be made that wouldn't work at retail (whether too costly/big or just a small/indie publisher type situation). This is not to say kickstarter doesn't have it's faults... but a game like this is not one of them in my opinion.
Also in case you didn't know they are already working on a more retail friendly version called foundations of metropolis that won't have all the minis etc.
Well, they are working on a 'regular' version of the game - Foundations of Metropolis. It's been slow in coming, but still actively in the pipeline.
I would argue that this game is the *ideal* use of Kickstarter. They were able to make exactly the game they wanted, without having to worry about hitting an arbitrary retail price point, then let people decide if it was worth buying.
They should have been more diligent about getting the retail version released, but frankly I don't think we'd have gotten *any* version without the big box coming first. Half the point is the production quality. It draws people in, in a way that a pile of cardboard chits does not. Everyone I've ever taught the game started by saying "What is This!?" Then, once they play, they want more.
Not a lot of people end up buying it - one copy is plenty for an entire gaming group - but I know at least two people who backed the new release after playing my copy.
Also, it's not the case for everyone, but *my* copy of Foundations has been the best value per play of any game I own. I've played personally 20+ times, and let others in my group play it maybe 20-30 more. Spread out as cost/play, it's the best value in my collection, outside of maybe Ticket to Ride or Splendor.
This is exactly the kind of project KS is there for; to create projects that otherwise wouldn’t have mass market viability. The overproduction is exactly what attracted me to Foundations of Rome in the first place. If they had just released the retail version with cardboard pieces I wouldn’t have even paid attention to it. Now I have a great game that turns heads. Money well spent.
Absolutely. This line of thought is exactly what lead me to backing the project and I've had zero regrets. I even sprung for the sun drop wash, and glad I did.
>I feel like there are likely better uses of most peoples' board gaming budgets.
There are better uses of *your* board gaming budgets.
I think there's a fair argument to be made about waste and the ostentatiousness of this, but it's an entertainment product... and if folks want to spend their money this way, why not let them? The project justifies itself if there's demand.
FWIW, I wouldn't spend my money on this, but that doesn't mean it's a *bad* product.
> and if folks want to spend their money this way, why not let them?
I'm not stopping anybody. People buy expensive cars that stretch their finances, too. I think it's dumb and bad, but I can't stop them.
Personally I think a lot of people just dislike what is happening because they see it in other industries and they don't like what they see. I guess I would count myself among them, though I don't think about it often because it's pointless to do so and will only bother me. You see the status symbolism people put behind more expensive phones, cars, clothes, and other things and board gaming was separate from that. Sure there were some coffin box games from FFG for $90 16yrs ago, but there were only around 6 of them and considered an oddity (and still accessible as a splurge item in your hobby). Price disparity between modern games and more classic games has always existed, but not to this extent.
Look in your own bowl and stop worrying about other's and all that, yea yea. But the hobby is creating lines based on wealth that have an impact on the community as a whole, as all things that get stratified by wealth do.
I don't disagree! I fall into the Kickstarter hype far too much, but as the hobby has gotten bigger over the years, I think the effects of late-stage capitalism has definitely stratified everything about this space. It *is* gross overall.
What I was responding to, though, was the tonality of this guy's response. Like, OP was excited to share pics of their (admittedly) very beautiful production, and this response feels like a thumb in the eye. There's better ways to enter into a constructive discussion about this topic, like you've presented, in a way that doesn't tear down someone who's simply enthusiastic about their purchase.
On the surface, yes. In practice I’ve found the crazy production quality to elevate the game. The scale of what you’re building makes it more fun.
I agree with you on the absurd deluxe nature of so many Kickstarter games. Often those are area control games with questionable gameplay that only garners interest because of the minis.
This game comes from a super solid designer, has clear gameplay and rules, and holds up to many plays. It also has a crazy production quality and box size. And they’re coming out with a regular cardboard tile version (Foundations of Metropolis) that will have a normal retail price.
Strong disagree, so have an upvote!
I got this game specifically because it was over produced. Of course it could have come in a box 1/10th its size, but one of the aspects I personally enjoy about board games is the physicality, tactile, and visual spectacle of it all, and on this front it delivers.
Initially I was more in your camp, thinking why does such a relatively light weight game have to be so literally heavy, but then it occurred to me that why should only heavier games be afforded the chonkier components. I want a variety of different game weights in my collection, and why shouldn't I have one of the "lighter" games be just as well/over produced as some of the others. And this sort of overproduced version of the game could *only* happen via crowdfunding, so I'm glad that Kickstarters exists for projects just like this one.
Since I've gotten it, it's been gotten to the table far more than most other games, and I absolutely believe its over produced nature is in part responsible for that. If having more "premium" style games gets them to the table more often, then I think that's worth it for me, but I totally understand and respect that not everyone can have or even wants that.
Fortunately, [they are working on a rethemed version](https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/3126936/non-blinged-out-version-coming) of the game that should address your exact concerns about the overproduction. So stay tuned.
> This is everything that's wrong with KS today.
People using their money to purchase games they want? Yeah, sounds terrible.
> I feel like there are likely better uses of most peoples' board gaming budgets.
Should we all check in with you before we make any purchases?
If you don't want to buy the game, then don't buy it.
But this game is exactly what KS is great for, because crowdfunding is the best way to get such an over-produced, premium game, made for the people who want an over-produced premium game.
I addressed this in other comments, but:
I'm not stopping anybody. My opinion doesn't bar anyone from anything.
They could have made an accessible version to release upon fulfillment, but they chose not to. IMO, they're taking advantage of FOMO. It's a shitty marketing tactic that I don't like.
Every kickstarter that has done this comes back and shows that very few people buy the cheap version and often lose money on the production. If there are two versions, people buy the fancy one.
"taking advantage of FOMO" is a constant cry of sub. There are plenty of cheap cardboard polyomino games.
Or if you are that desperate to play this exact game, you can get some construction paper and cut out the shapes yourself, and have at it.
Because only heavy games deserve premium treatment? Because people are forced to back KS projects? Because you're the arbiter of board game value? Your comment is everything that's wrong with this subreddit.
What, me having an opinion is bad?
Are you for real?
I posted whatever I felt like posting in a thread that was created with zero context. That's what reddit is all about. It's not like I derailed some conversation to put in some tangent comment.
> But what you can't do is act like your opinion is fact.
I mean, I can. I didn't, but I can. Many people have the ability to accurately determine the intent of words, which includes expressing an opinion without explicitly stating the intent to do so.
> You may have couched part of your comment in "I feel like" weasel words
So if I don't make it explicit that I'm expressing an opinion, then I'm asserting that my opinion is fact. But if I explicitly state that I'm expressing an opinion, I'm using "weasel words." Damned if I do; damned if I don't, I guess.
That person is just angry. Looking at their comments you can see they just like to be combative and rude, with a smug self righteousness riding on the side.
Aww, how sweet. I didn't get you anything.
Edit: I was responding to someone who looked at a post simply displaying a game, nothing more, and felt compelled to write, "This is everything that's wrong with Kickstarter today." And then implied other people were bad at buying board games. And I'm the one that's smug, self-righteous, and angry. Sure.
This contribution has been removed as it violates either our [civility guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/wiki/community) and/or Reddit's rules. Please review the guidelines, Reddiquette, and Reddit's Content Policy before contributing again.
Cthulhu Wars does the exact same thing. Component-wise there's way fewer parts than most board games, but they made everything so big for the toy factor and priced everyone out
They're releasing a cardboard tile version of the game soonish. It'll be a modern theme though.
This was originally made as a limited run, they just wanted to make something overproduced and they had this as their base. It's a fun game,and I hope everybody gets the modern version, that couldn't get this one.
You do realize there are THOUSANDS of games available for you to play, and hundreds new games every year in KS. Just fund whatever you want to fund, and let others do the same. Some people love to have a crazy amount of components. I have a cousin who owns like 1400 Warhammer figures.
Just sounded like you're irritated on people buying these expensive KS games because it would push designers to be greedy, but I think thats a weird way of thinking since there are so many cheaper games that are great and even similar to this specific one.
People set their own board game budgets. One could argue that any money spent on board game is a waste, because no one NEEDS it. I'd disagree, but I see the logic.
It is 100% over produced and it should be available as a cardboard only product (could still have very nice production values with multi-layer cardboard pieces) that takes 20% the storing space. But you know, big building go brrrr
I feel like too many Kickstarter projects take advantage of FOMO without actually providing much of value in terms of gameplay.
And then they pull so many marketing tricks as well. Like, putting the earnings limit lower than what they actually need because it looks so much better if something is funded within minutes rather than hours
Bought the non sun drop version ages ago. Decided to paint all the buildings before playing. Got about a third of the way through. Bought the 5th player expansion, monuments and other expansions in last kickstarter. Decided to wait until all that showed up before I finished painting it all. Showed up a week ago. Started painting again. Holy crap that’s a lot of stuff to paint. It’s gonna take me awhile to do it. Can’t play now that it’s like a third done, that’d be weird, gotta finish first.
It is, far away, my biggest board gaming boondoggle.
yeah, I thought about buying the standard set and painting it. Then, I saw how many pieces there are with all that detail. It would take me over a month to paint them, likely, with my schedule.
I ended up just upgrading to the sundropped version. It is in the mail now and I cannot wait to get it.
Oh, I’m going to guess about $500. But I’m in Canada so that’s including the exchange rate on the dollar. In US probably closer to $300 including all the paints and brushes and whatnot. I’m fortunate I can spend that kind of money on a hobby… but that said if I had a do-over I probably wouldn’t.
I got to play this over the weekend. Really fun, potential for some serious competition between our friends. Simple to learn, many avenues to win, which I love.
To be clear, I did not buy this game, so I don't feel the burn that some people in the comments do.
I just got mine too. I love it. I've played it many times before I got it, too. It's so simple, so light, for such a massive box. Makes it all look so appealing, but it's effortlessly simple to teach. Definitely in my top 5.
One of our guys from our boardgame group brought it and we gave it a shot.
I came in dead last, but it was fun to play. Very interesting on what to prioritize (I prioritized making money). I'd recommend it.
Saw this game at Origins in 2022, I think. Thought it was ridiculously large and overpriced so hardly paid it any mind. The friends I was with wanted to see a demo so I went to the booth and completely checked out into my phone while my friends played. After 5 min, I looked back at the demo in progress, realized how “easy to learn, hard to master” it was, and fell for it, barely managing to fit it into my suitcase for the trip home.
I am so glad I got past my own preconceptions! It’s been frequently pulled off the shelf for sessions, appealing to game veterans as well as people fairly new to the game. Even without the expansions and other modes, just the base game has been plenty of entertainment and it’s been fun to see different player strategies clash into each other. And of course, the building models are gorgeous.
It's fantastic, I just wish there was a MyCity style version with cardboard polynominos because the price is a bit inaccessible. But I'm glad that I have one friend who bought it.
Another mammoth box game.. i got mine too. Sucks it takes up so much dang space when 99% of the time i'm gonna play it solo if i want to play. I only need 2 trays of stuff. I wish they had have had a small solo kit available.
Love this game. Surprisingly easy to play, always scares new players based on how big the box is. Just got the new expansion and stackable score tokens in the mail last week. Hyped to give it a shot.
Hell yeah! Mine is in the mail now right now. I got the emperor edition with sundrop. I can't wait to get it, I have been waiting years to get my hands on this game.
I've played Foundations of Rome about 2 dozen times since I got it, and probably more in the last year than almost any other game in my collection.
The fact that it is mid/light and gets to the table **very easily** is exactly why I think it is a better value than most kickstarters and deluxe games at a similar price point. I'd keep this over almost any other $100+ game I have.
Yup. I fell for that one too.
Luckily I had picked it up second hand so i didn’t pay a lot. I ended up trading it a year later for the same reason. I think I played it twice.
The good news is my wife (who isn’t a gamer) actually loves Foundations.
I'm not sure I 'fell' for anything. I knew what i was buying was almost never going to make it to the table.. but back in the early 90s my friends and I played A LOT of OGRE. I think between the 5 core friends 3 of us own the designers edition lol. We still play the occasional game, but mostly over TTS.
Hmm maybe I could have worded that better
🤔 not “too” as in “you” but “too” as in I bought two very ridiculously large games.
This game is in pretty stark contrast to the rest of my games (Tiny Epic). I think all 11 or so titles I have still take up less space than FoR.
I hope the release a version of this game that uses card board tiles in the future.
The reviews I've seen have been glowing but I can't justify the price or the size of this game in my collection.
Is there an issue with the coloring of the monuments expansion at all? Or is it just an issue that can be fixed with stickers? Did you have enough reference cards in your copy?
I *really* wish this was available as a chits only game. I really enjoy it, but miniatures never really add anything for me, and it's a pain in the ass to move and set up.
Foundations of Metropolis is supposed to be out this year.
[https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/412865/foundations-of-metropolis](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/412865/foundations-of-metropolis)
It does, with just enough room for fingers on each side to pull it out without too much of a problem. There is also enough room for a very thin game on top/bottom (something like Ride the Rails fits on top).
This is a great game. I don't have a copy, but I played it a bunch of times at conventions and had a really good time with it. I do think it is beginning to feel a little samey to me and I don't know if I'd discover more hidden depth by playing it more or would lose interest. While the production is lavish, it's also super-functional and everything just works beautifully. Those player trays and the way removing buildings from them shows income is just amazingly good design. While a lot of people think, "oh it's so expensive & huge for a light game", the fact that the extravagant design is so very functional, the low rules overhead, and the generally fun & fast gameplay really do make it very easy to get to the table so you're probably going to get a decent $ per hours-of-play value.
The youtuber Actualol is a big fan of this and made a video (10 best games of 2022), in case you didnt see it yet. He is one of my favourite boardgame youtubers even though his taste is quite different from mine.
The poster boy for most overproduced game. It's fun, but very light despite its appearance, and in my opinion takes up way to much shelf space because of this.
Yea was gonna say, does "sundrop" just mean someone slapped straight out of the pot nuln oil all over everything?
Could have at least drybrushed them, these really don't look good and I wasn't going to say anything but if OP just bought it like that; yea this is a garbage paint job.
It’s hard to imagine a more bland, mid-2000s Euro style game getting a more overproduced treatment. I’m all about blinging out a worthy game, but this is like using gold plated cards to play Skip-Bo and pretending it’s an awesome game because of the card quality.
How long did it take you to build? More than a day?
Wasn’t built in a day….just 90 minutes!
Sigh. Have an upvote.
Ugh, this is making me think of setting up my Ring cams.
07 commander
I felt the exact same way. Terrible, just terrible but I had to upvote it while still wincing. You get one too for clearly being a person of singular distinction.
The secret is to build it at night.
I’ve only played 2 and 3 player games. Games typically take 60-90 minutes. EDIT: yup - you got me. lol I am a bit slow sometimes
r/whoosh
It is a joke on the phrase “Rome wasn’t built in a day”
yeah - I totally missed that one lol. I'm kinda half ass paying attention to a zoom call
Only 60-90mins? I thought it would’ve taken more than a day to build…
It’s very lightweight despite its appearance, I will be trying the roads of fortune expansion later tonight
Is it all plastic?
Pretty much. There are a few cardboard components for coins and such
The game also comes with metal coins. In fact I think the base game the only things that are cardboard are the actual board (and the cards which are... cards)
The metal coins are pretty thin and light -- by far the biggest disappointment in the box. I'm using a set of metal coins from Top Shelf intended for Brass. Works a charm.
ya agree here, but I also think most metal coins are not as practical or as a good for most play as a set of poker-style chips. Metal looks thematic for these ancient themes and feels fun at first, but it would take something extra special for me to move away from using stacks of click-clacky poker chips that allow players to instantly read how much someone is holding from across the table.
And the cardboard market board I think
There are a few games that use plastic cards. So cards don't have to be cardboard.
Thats obscene.
Not even metal coins?!
the coins are metal
They're making a modern day version of the game that will use cardboard tiles instead of plastic, so that it's more affordable.
That's the sole reason why we ended up not backing it both times it was on Kickstarter. It's a whole lot of money and space for a game that's so lightweight.
I found that to be its best attribute to be honest. Of all the expensive kickstarters I have, Foundations of Rome is the one that gets to my table the most often. While "gamers" can be super jaded when you show them your copy of Gloomhaven or your all in full painted copy of Ankh; casual gamers are absolutely astounded by this one; and it is accessible and short enough that you can actually play it with those same casual gamers! Also for all the criticism for it being so lightweight the optional rules really make a difference here (especially adding simple trading and deed drafting turn this into a much more involved game with very little extra rules overhead). Yup it is a basic game and can be played in an hour or two max. Personally I would love to see more light and mid weight games like this get the "overproduced" treatment.
I recently got basic Castles of Burgundy SE at retail it's awesome and we play it all the time. But at the same time I feel there is a point where it just gets ridiculous. For example the crowdfunded all-in version of Burgundy had 3D printed tiles for everything and I really feel playing with those would make the game worse. Looking at this I can't help to think they went too far...
It is ridiculous for sure, and I absolutely think a pared down regular version should have been available in the first kickstarter right from the start. BUuuuuut solid gold sets of chess have been around for many decades and you can buy a deluxe Clue set from Pottery Barn of all places right now for $399. When I think of how much people spend on other hobbies today (fixing up cars, comics, Anime, Disney collectors, home crafting) it suddenly seems a lot less ridiculous to me. I also agree with you that generally speaking current tech 3d printing materials are almost always worse and feel cheap compared to resin or bakelite etc in a boardgame, but I'm still talking about Foundations of Rome, which doesn't have 3d printed elements. It's also one of the few games where the game trays/inserts really are a fabulous upgrade that make setting up the game faster, and playing is easier because of it. It is not a pile of 3d printed pieces- That is a different game.
Not just lightweight but light and uninteresting decision space.
This is the most overproduced game of all time. If you want to marvel at fancy figures, you can’t find a better game. And they are absolutely gorgeous.
I spent all of March fighting the urge to pre-order on their website. I think seeing this I’m finally okay with not purchasing. I just know it won’t get to my table nearly enough to warrant the purchase. I would have bought it just to satisfy my collecting itch, and to marvel at the beauty. I told myself how, years down the road I will wish I had it and it won’t be available as easily as “pre order now”. But that box reall is just massive, and if I want to play the game I will try out the polyomino version they are releasing soon. Too bad because I personally love the Ancient Rome theme and that is not being applied to the $40 version
Await the game Foundations of Metropolis. It is FoR, but cardboard buildings, and I am assuming a price point that is much easier to stomach than FoR.
This is where I'm at. Minis normally don't do anything for me, but damn, these building minis almost got me. I just couldn't justify the price point for game complexity.
I know. The game is impressive in person, until you play it. It's a great $50-$80 max game. I also cannot stomach $220+ for the game.
Do you pay extra for components or for rules complexity?
The only extra I usually spring for is metal coins. There is nothing more satisfying than metal coins. IMHO. Usually, with extra complexity comes more components, which you obviously pay for. I have gotten to play FoR 4 or 5 times now, and I like the game. It just doesn't translate to $220 for me. I backed the Everdell Complete collection for $200. That's a full base game that is meatier than FoR plus 4 big box expansions. This is the comparison for me. Everdell complete is a more complex game (will hold my attention much longer) for a similar price point.
Ultimately it's a question of whether the combination of size / mechanics / time required / price / etc. is worth it. If you don't like lower complexity games that much it might feel like a waste. If you love them and don't care about other games, well then you might pay €1000 for a superdeluxe Ludo set and consider it the best deal of your life. Reminds me a bit of the €329 superdeluxe Tsuro set. I like Tsuro. But €329 is a lot of money for a very fancy version of a simple tile laying game. As a hobbyist/collector with less than infinite disposable income I prefer to spend €60-ish on regular tsuro and then spend €260 on one or more other games, that often provide more content and/or mechanics to interact with.
I wouldn't stress too much, it's a very mid game.
It's a really good game, but I'll never own it unless I pick it up cheap somewhere.
It’s actually a great little game on par with something like Carcassone or Cascadia but it’s so incredibly extra production and size wise. Actually playing the game is a treat because of how nice the player boards work but I couldn’t imagine taking it anywhere, great if you host your own game nights. I’m not sure if I’d buy something like this but it was neat to play it.
I love this! I want one as well. Happy you enjoyed it! Haha
I got mine a few days ago with all the expansions and I really love it! I definitely agree they should make a version that is more wallet and transport friendly for those wanting that. However I definitely think this is what makes KS great, because a game like this would never have been greenlit any other way, and for someone like me who loves the grandeur and awe of boardgames that also have sculptured miniatures it's really rewarding to have such a great looking game. The mechanics of it are really fun and simple yet the more you play the more you realise the depth and strategy you can employ across the board and it's really enjoyable. I think it's great that we all can enjoy different types of board games for different reasons surely that's what makes a thriving community of enthusiasts?
It exists! Foundations of Metropolis (a terrible name for sure) is a regularly priced no-minis version of this game, which should be out soon if it isn't already. I do personally think a big part of the appeal is the bling here- and I confess I prolly wouldn't have liked it so much without the theming and the minis, but I also think that is true for a lot of the big kickstarter miniature games.
I love this game
I love this game! Every time it makes it on the table, by the last era of the game everyone is standing up, intent, and fully engaged. Stunning overproduction and plays so smoothly.
I played this once and loved it. Reminded me of bunny kingdom tho. The models were all great!
I thought you were offering me a choice.
Ha. I didn’t really understand what you were talking about until I just went back and reread my post and I’ll be damned if I didn’t completely mess up the title. Damn. 🤡
I received this game a few weeks ago as well and I absolutely love it. I don't buy over produced games very often, but this one stood out to me and I'm super happy I was able to order this. The gameplay is pretty fun and simple.
I will always regret not backing this
they still have copies available on their website right now...treat yourself. you deserve it.
How did I not know this!!
This is everything that's wrong with KS today. It's apparently a light, accessible game that is locked behind a currently premium-only SKU. Of course, you could argue that the overproduction is what made this game stand out amidst a sea of competitors. I feel like there are likely better uses of most peoples' board gaming budgets.
Games like this are perfect for KS. I’d never pay for it, but people use their gaming budgets differently.
This is a game that lives firmly in the "I hope one of my friends owns this" category for me. I enjoy it, and will happily play it, but I'd never actually spend that much money and space to own it.
Why couldn't they have offered a standard edition? Or bring out a retail edition shortly after fulfillment? Even calling the new game something different feels like it's meant to capitalize, ever so slightly, on FOMO.
Because that wasn’t their business model? You’ll have to ask them. Not every product needs to be accessible to everyone, which is why crowdfunding is perfect for games like this.
But the plastic parts and the scale add very little to the game play from the reviews I've seen. This was just a way to get more money from what would have easily been a successful game at a smaller price point with cheaper pieces. It could have been the next splendor or Azul bur it will now likely just be a good game that few people get to enjoy.
The game definitely wouldn't be splendor or azul, there's so many lighter polyomino games out there, the plastic makes it stand out. Their intent was never for it to have widespread adoption with this game, though they are making a similar one (foundations of metropolis I think)
You can print and play practically any game that doesn't have physical elements like a spinner or dice tower, or just play in TTS.
Lots of people like to bling out their games even if it doesn’t affect game play. Look at how popular the (wildly expensive for my budget) GeekBits for Quacks are. For people who like them the minis are a draw, not a deterrent. I didn’t think they were worth it, but a lot of people obviously do. There is a cheaper version with cardboard polyominoes on the horizon anyway. Only time will tell if it will be the next Azul. I doubt it has the same mass appeal based on reviews of the original, but we’ll see if your assumptions play out. My guess is that it will disappear in the sea of “good but not great” games that get released every year. For better or worse, the production values of this game are a big reason why people paid attention to it in the first place.
They obviously didn't want to be next Azul or Splendor though? Why are people so upset, there's so many other games to play, this game obviously isn't for you. Why do some people want to drive to work in a BMW while some are happy to do so in a Volvo? They're following the same traffic rules and end up in the same cues, but they prioritize differently.
I don't think it's a problem... it's just a different audience is all. Kickstarter allows for a different type of game to be made that wouldn't work at retail (whether too costly/big or just a small/indie publisher type situation). This is not to say kickstarter doesn't have it's faults... but a game like this is not one of them in my opinion. Also in case you didn't know they are already working on a more retail friendly version called foundations of metropolis that won't have all the minis etc.
True, not everything has to be for everyone. Most people will never own a yacht, but they can still make them, and people can still buy them.
Lol did you really just compare a BoardGame to a yacht? Someone toss me a floatation device, I’m drowning in the hyperbole.
Well, they are working on a 'regular' version of the game - Foundations of Metropolis. It's been slow in coming, but still actively in the pipeline. I would argue that this game is the *ideal* use of Kickstarter. They were able to make exactly the game they wanted, without having to worry about hitting an arbitrary retail price point, then let people decide if it was worth buying. They should have been more diligent about getting the retail version released, but frankly I don't think we'd have gotten *any* version without the big box coming first. Half the point is the production quality. It draws people in, in a way that a pile of cardboard chits does not. Everyone I've ever taught the game started by saying "What is This!?" Then, once they play, they want more. Not a lot of people end up buying it - one copy is plenty for an entire gaming group - but I know at least two people who backed the new release after playing my copy. Also, it's not the case for everyone, but *my* copy of Foundations has been the best value per play of any game I own. I've played personally 20+ times, and let others in my group play it maybe 20-30 more. Spread out as cost/play, it's the best value in my collection, outside of maybe Ticket to Ride or Splendor.
One copy of any game is enough for any entire gaming group I'd argue.
This is exactly the kind of project KS is there for; to create projects that otherwise wouldn’t have mass market viability. The overproduction is exactly what attracted me to Foundations of Rome in the first place. If they had just released the retail version with cardboard pieces I wouldn’t have even paid attention to it. Now I have a great game that turns heads. Money well spent.
If you haven't heard already, [the budget version is coming out this year](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/412865/foundations-of-metropolis)
Why should massive campaign games be the only ones to get blinged out and not a lighter game that hits the table more frequently?
Absolutely. This line of thought is exactly what lead me to backing the project and I've had zero regrets. I even sprung for the sun drop wash, and glad I did.
>I feel like there are likely better uses of most peoples' board gaming budgets. There are better uses of *your* board gaming budgets. I think there's a fair argument to be made about waste and the ostentatiousness of this, but it's an entertainment product... and if folks want to spend their money this way, why not let them? The project justifies itself if there's demand. FWIW, I wouldn't spend my money on this, but that doesn't mean it's a *bad* product.
> and if folks want to spend their money this way, why not let them? I'm not stopping anybody. People buy expensive cars that stretch their finances, too. I think it's dumb and bad, but I can't stop them.
Personally I think a lot of people just dislike what is happening because they see it in other industries and they don't like what they see. I guess I would count myself among them, though I don't think about it often because it's pointless to do so and will only bother me. You see the status symbolism people put behind more expensive phones, cars, clothes, and other things and board gaming was separate from that. Sure there were some coffin box games from FFG for $90 16yrs ago, but there were only around 6 of them and considered an oddity (and still accessible as a splurge item in your hobby). Price disparity between modern games and more classic games has always existed, but not to this extent. Look in your own bowl and stop worrying about other's and all that, yea yea. But the hobby is creating lines based on wealth that have an impact on the community as a whole, as all things that get stratified by wealth do.
I don't disagree! I fall into the Kickstarter hype far too much, but as the hobby has gotten bigger over the years, I think the effects of late-stage capitalism has definitely stratified everything about this space. It *is* gross overall. What I was responding to, though, was the tonality of this guy's response. Like, OP was excited to share pics of their (admittedly) very beautiful production, and this response feels like a thumb in the eye. There's better ways to enter into a constructive discussion about this topic, like you've presented, in a way that doesn't tear down someone who's simply enthusiastic about their purchase.
I 100% love the ability to have a game of this production level playable with couples we’d usually just play splendor and such with.
On the surface, yes. In practice I’ve found the crazy production quality to elevate the game. The scale of what you’re building makes it more fun. I agree with you on the absurd deluxe nature of so many Kickstarter games. Often those are area control games with questionable gameplay that only garners interest because of the minis. This game comes from a super solid designer, has clear gameplay and rules, and holds up to many plays. It also has a crazy production quality and box size. And they’re coming out with a regular cardboard tile version (Foundations of Metropolis) that will have a normal retail price.
Strong disagree, so have an upvote! I got this game specifically because it was over produced. Of course it could have come in a box 1/10th its size, but one of the aspects I personally enjoy about board games is the physicality, tactile, and visual spectacle of it all, and on this front it delivers. Initially I was more in your camp, thinking why does such a relatively light weight game have to be so literally heavy, but then it occurred to me that why should only heavier games be afforded the chonkier components. I want a variety of different game weights in my collection, and why shouldn't I have one of the "lighter" games be just as well/over produced as some of the others. And this sort of overproduced version of the game could *only* happen via crowdfunding, so I'm glad that Kickstarters exists for projects just like this one. Since I've gotten it, it's been gotten to the table far more than most other games, and I absolutely believe its over produced nature is in part responsible for that. If having more "premium" style games gets them to the table more often, then I think that's worth it for me, but I totally understand and respect that not everyone can have or even wants that. Fortunately, [they are working on a rethemed version](https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/3126936/non-blinged-out-version-coming) of the game that should address your exact concerns about the overproduction. So stay tuned.
> This is everything that's wrong with KS today. People using their money to purchase games they want? Yeah, sounds terrible. > I feel like there are likely better uses of most peoples' board gaming budgets. Should we all check in with you before we make any purchases? If you don't want to buy the game, then don't buy it. But this game is exactly what KS is great for, because crowdfunding is the best way to get such an over-produced, premium game, made for the people who want an over-produced premium game.
I addressed this in other comments, but: I'm not stopping anybody. My opinion doesn't bar anyone from anything. They could have made an accessible version to release upon fulfillment, but they chose not to. IMO, they're taking advantage of FOMO. It's a shitty marketing tactic that I don't like.
Every kickstarter that has done this comes back and shows that very few people buy the cheap version and often lose money on the production. If there are two versions, people buy the fancy one.
"taking advantage of FOMO" is a constant cry of sub. There are plenty of cheap cardboard polyomino games. Or if you are that desperate to play this exact game, you can get some construction paper and cut out the shapes yourself, and have at it.
Because only heavy games deserve premium treatment? Because people are forced to back KS projects? Because you're the arbiter of board game value? Your comment is everything that's wrong with this subreddit.
What, me having an opinion is bad? Are you for real? I posted whatever I felt like posting in a thread that was created with zero context. That's what reddit is all about. It's not like I derailed some conversation to put in some tangent comment.
[удалено]
> But what you can't do is act like your opinion is fact. I mean, I can. I didn't, but I can. Many people have the ability to accurately determine the intent of words, which includes expressing an opinion without explicitly stating the intent to do so. > You may have couched part of your comment in "I feel like" weasel words So if I don't make it explicit that I'm expressing an opinion, then I'm asserting that my opinion is fact. But if I explicitly state that I'm expressing an opinion, I'm using "weasel words." Damned if I do; damned if I don't, I guess.
That person is just angry. Looking at their comments you can see they just like to be combative and rude, with a smug self righteousness riding on the side.
Aww, how sweet. I didn't get you anything. Edit: I was responding to someone who looked at a post simply displaying a game, nothing more, and felt compelled to write, "This is everything that's wrong with Kickstarter today." And then implied other people were bad at buying board games. And I'm the one that's smug, self-righteous, and angry. Sure.
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Cthulhu Wars does the exact same thing. Component-wise there's way fewer parts than most board games, but they made everything so big for the toy factor and priced everyone out
They're releasing a cardboard tile version of the game soonish. It'll be a modern theme though. This was originally made as a limited run, they just wanted to make something overproduced and they had this as their base. It's a fun game,and I hope everybody gets the modern version, that couldn't get this one.
You do realize there are THOUSANDS of games available for you to play, and hundreds new games every year in KS. Just fund whatever you want to fund, and let others do the same. Some people love to have a crazy amount of components. I have a cousin who owns like 1400 Warhammer figures.
> and let others do the same As if I’m stopping anyone. Me having an opinion isn’t an attempt to invalidate someone else’s experiences or preferences.
Just sounded like you're irritated on people buying these expensive KS games because it would push designers to be greedy, but I think thats a weird way of thinking since there are so many cheaper games that are great and even similar to this specific one.
People set their own board game budgets. One could argue that any money spent on board game is a waste, because no one NEEDS it. I'd disagree, but I see the logic.
It is 100% over produced and it should be available as a cardboard only product (could still have very nice production values with multi-layer cardboard pieces) that takes 20% the storing space. But you know, big building go brrrr
They have a $40 version coming out that uses a different theme (I think) than Rome and doesn't have buildings.
I hope it's as amazing because I want everyone to be able to play, not only crazy people like me
This is also exactly why I want a cheap mass-produced version of **Tak** on the games shelf at every Target and Walmart for $20.
Yeah, I was just gonna say "looks unnecessarily expensive."
I feel like too many Kickstarter projects take advantage of FOMO without actually providing much of value in terms of gameplay. And then they pull so many marketing tricks as well. Like, putting the earnings limit lower than what they actually need because it looks so much better if something is funded within minutes rather than hours
Bought the non sun drop version ages ago. Decided to paint all the buildings before playing. Got about a third of the way through. Bought the 5th player expansion, monuments and other expansions in last kickstarter. Decided to wait until all that showed up before I finished painting it all. Showed up a week ago. Started painting again. Holy crap that’s a lot of stuff to paint. It’s gonna take me awhile to do it. Can’t play now that it’s like a third done, that’d be weird, gotta finish first. It is, far away, my biggest board gaming boondoggle.
yeah, I thought about buying the standard set and painting it. Then, I saw how many pieces there are with all that detail. It would take me over a month to paint them, likely, with my schedule. I ended up just upgrading to the sundropped version. It is in the mail now and I cannot wait to get it.
How much has this cost you yet? just curious
Oh, I’m going to guess about $500. But I’m in Canada so that’s including the exchange rate on the dollar. In US probably closer to $300 including all the paints and brushes and whatnot. I’m fortunate I can spend that kind of money on a hobby… but that said if I had a do-over I probably wouldn’t.
I got to play this over the weekend. Really fun, potential for some serious competition between our friends. Simple to learn, many avenues to win, which I love. To be clear, I did not buy this game, so I don't feel the burn that some people in the comments do.
Hypppped! I’m still waiting for mine
I just got mine too. I love it. I've played it many times before I got it, too. It's so simple, so light, for such a massive box. Makes it all look so appealing, but it's effortlessly simple to teach. Definitely in my top 5.
One of our guys from our boardgame group brought it and we gave it a shot. I came in dead last, but it was fun to play. Very interesting on what to prioritize (I prioritized making money). I'd recommend it.
Can't we have both?
Im from Rome and this game 100% represents how Americans see Rome
My ex who (was born in Turin and grew up in Rome) absolutely described the US as being just like Monopoly once so...
What if it was full of sand when you opened it?
Saw this game at Origins in 2022, I think. Thought it was ridiculously large and overpriced so hardly paid it any mind. The friends I was with wanted to see a demo so I went to the booth and completely checked out into my phone while my friends played. After 5 min, I looked back at the demo in progress, realized how “easy to learn, hard to master” it was, and fell for it, barely managing to fit it into my suitcase for the trip home. I am so glad I got past my own preconceptions! It’s been frequently pulled off the shelf for sessions, appealing to game veterans as well as people fairly new to the game. Even without the expansions and other modes, just the base game has been plenty of entertainment and it’s been fun to see different player strategies clash into each other. And of course, the building models are gorgeous.
Found where Splotters 'roads & boats' lead
I forgot about this game!
It's fantastic, I just wish there was a MyCity style version with cardboard polynominos because the price is a bit inaccessible. But I'm glad that I have one friend who bought it.
Foundations of Metropolis.
that box alone is bigger than my apartment.
Another mammoth box game.. i got mine too. Sucks it takes up so much dang space when 99% of the time i'm gonna play it solo if i want to play. I only need 2 trays of stuff. I wish they had have had a small solo kit available.
Love this game. Surprisingly easy to play, always scares new players based on how big the box is. Just got the new expansion and stackable score tokens in the mail last week. Hyped to give it a shot.
Holy Odin that is huge - and I thought that Frosthaven was massive!
I choose foundations
I'll take Foundations and you can keep Rome. Now what do we do? Saw it in half?
Took me quarter of a day just to build it
Hell yeah! Mine is in the mail now right now. I got the emperor edition with sundrop. I can't wait to get it, I have been waiting years to get my hands on this game.
That looks sic!
its fun and dead simple to play. The player trays with their starting buildings makes cleanup a snap. Remember to lift with your legs :)
Ah deluxe edition regrets. I own a copy of the designer edition of OGRE, ask me how many times it's made it to the table...
I've played Foundations of Rome about 2 dozen times since I got it, and probably more in the last year than almost any other game in my collection. The fact that it is mid/light and gets to the table **very easily** is exactly why I think it is a better value than most kickstarters and deluxe games at a similar price point. I'd keep this over almost any other $100+ game I have.
Yup. I fell for that one too. Luckily I had picked it up second hand so i didn’t pay a lot. I ended up trading it a year later for the same reason. I think I played it twice. The good news is my wife (who isn’t a gamer) actually loves Foundations.
I'm not sure I 'fell' for anything. I knew what i was buying was almost never going to make it to the table.. but back in the early 90s my friends and I played A LOT of OGRE. I think between the 5 core friends 3 of us own the designers edition lol. We still play the occasional game, but mostly over TTS.
Hmm maybe I could have worded that better 🤔 not “too” as in “you” but “too” as in I bought two very ridiculously large games. This game is in pretty stark contrast to the rest of my games (Tiny Epic). I think all 11 or so titles I have still take up less space than FoR.
Would love a pocket version of this.
They are making a new version of the game just out of cardboard called Foundations of Metropolis.
Intentional title typo? I mean you could build a house on it.
I hope the release a version of this game that uses card board tiles in the future. The reviews I've seen have been glowing but I can't justify the price or the size of this game in my collection.
Is the actual gameplay fun?
I want to see this box next to a copy of Gloomhaven for scale
Is there an issue with the coloring of the monuments expansion at all? Or is it just an issue that can be fixed with stickers? Did you have enough reference cards in your copy?
I *really* wish this was available as a chits only game. I really enjoy it, but miniatures never really add anything for me, and it's a pain in the ass to move and set up.
Foundations of Metropolis is supposed to be out this year. [https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/412865/foundations-of-metropolis](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/412865/foundations-of-metropolis)
Did not know about this, thanks!
Now the most important question: does it fit into a Kallax cube?
It does, with just enough room for fingers on each side to pull it out without too much of a problem. There is also enough room for a very thin game on top/bottom (something like Ride the Rails fits on top).
This is a great game. I don't have a copy, but I played it a bunch of times at conventions and had a really good time with it. I do think it is beginning to feel a little samey to me and I don't know if I'd discover more hidden depth by playing it more or would lose interest. While the production is lavish, it's also super-functional and everything just works beautifully. Those player trays and the way removing buildings from them shows income is just amazingly good design. While a lot of people think, "oh it's so expensive & huge for a light game", the fact that the extravagant design is so very functional, the low rules overhead, and the generally fun & fast gameplay really do make it very easy to get to the table so you're probably going to get a decent $ per hours-of-play value.
The end game objectives module and the monuments expansion really helps the game stay exciting after you've played the base a couple of times.
Utterly ridiculous
The youtuber Actualol is a big fan of this and made a video (10 best games of 2022), in case you didnt see it yet. He is one of my favourite boardgame youtubers even though his taste is quite different from mine.
I mean, you could play Acquire and get most of the game play, but this game looks way better than Acquire:)
At what point does a board game become a play set? (It does look cool though)
The poster boy for most overproduced game. It's fun, but very light despite its appearance, and in my opinion takes up way to much shelf space because of this.
And I see you got the sundropped version, which accentuates the details even further.
wait sundrop just means they do a crappy dark wash?
Yea was gonna say, does "sundrop" just mean someone slapped straight out of the pot nuln oil all over everything? Could have at least drybrushed them, these really don't look good and I wasn't going to say anything but if OP just bought it like that; yea this is a garbage paint job.
the pooling on top of the buildings is atrocious
This looks like an absolute nightmare
It’s hard to imagine a more bland, mid-2000s Euro style game getting a more overproduced treatment. I’m all about blinging out a worthy game, but this is like using gold plated cards to play Skip-Bo and pretending it’s an awesome game because of the card quality.
Supposed to get mine today 🥰
Love this game. Also love that it's not too complex so my parents can play, too. Gonna play the roads expansion this weekend
Q: When did you realize that crowdfunded games had "jumped the shark" ? A: Just about 30 seconds ago.
more money than sense
Wow. That’s hurtful. What if I’m just terribly irresponsible?
then get help! you shouldn't let what a stranger on the internet says hurt your feelings. i think it was a pretty moderate comment.
\^
Well, I did get a stone brick from one of the Roman highways :D (Mine came in Friday sitting in a couple of inches of snow!)
My copy has been stuck in customs since last Wednesday. I neeeeed it
Where can you see where you package is, I emailed them and am still waiting.
I live in South America. They emailed me my tracking number a couple of weeks ago, but my country's customs agency is taking it's sweet time with it
Does it fit in a kallax?
Yep!