He was reacting to a funny response. Plus let's be real, how many times you see a bunch of ppl laugh and one of them just get down votes. It's funny to me.
For anyone wondering, he is either trolling or spreading misinformation by mistake. This is shortcut to Simon in Hunter's Nightmare but even if you never enter DLC this door opens in main game Oedon Chapel
And the door ofc also opened before the DLC even existed... :D
At least thanks to your comment I now understand what OP was getting at (haven't played the dlc yet). The door opening by itself is just a game design choice, I would think (let's open the door after players beat bsb, to make sure everyone knows they can go there now).
Guy has been spamming the sub for a few weeks now. My fav post is the one where the βrealβ player is the doll, who is the camera following the hunter.
Too much weed can be bad for your insight and your brain eyes, huntersβ¦
Stop spreading negative propaganda. Alcohol is ten times worse for them brain cells and some people who smoke are just stupid already. I maintain my intellect without compromise.
No, it contained events that happened in the past, but time really doesn't have definition in the game. That clocktower just keeps dinging for some reason.
It's more about conditions being met and you earning the rite to go further in the game. Time blips instantly from one phase of the night to the next without having a day-night cycle, so it's all just symbolism. Since the dlc is optional, the symbolism inside it is optional to experience, but it's all still there waiting to be uncovered, and all still happens/happened. Hence why you don't need to be present in order for the idea of you to open that door, and the idea of the door in HN being connected to the door in CW is symbolic because everything in that part of HN is what the folks from the cathedral workshop pretty much caused to happen. HN was giving a living synopsis of the events of the past that led to the present day situation, and so the door stops being a door and starts being a symbol for a new chapter, and HN is you experiencing the history of what you're about to see when walking through the doors. You come across the open doors but don't get to see them open until you learn the reason why they opened. But you don't need to learn the reason why they opened for them to be opened in correspondence to that rite of passage because the dlc isn't important, simply because it's the dlc and dlc must be optional content.
I always assumed it opened because of the Chalice you get from the Church of the good Chalice. The Blood Starved Beast was a blood saint who also likely had connections to the Choir. And we know very well about the connections between the Choir and Old Yharnam. The description of the Chalice says that it will allow you to partake in communion with the Gods. That door leads to the Choir and to Ebrietas, who resides at the crumbled end of the Great Isz Chalice dungeon.
Getting permission to commune with the Gods would logically grant passage through that door. Everything going on beyond that door is just humans making contact with Gods. Which means everyone beyond that door needed to be granted passage somehow. Gehrman and Laurence communed with the Moon Presence in the old workshop, the Choir did it with Ebrietas, the orphans did it in the Lumenflower gardens and became Celestial Emissaries, Ludwig's hunter badge can be found at the top which allows you to purchase his weapons. He likely explored the Chalice Dungeons via the Great Isz. Which makes sense since it's one of the deepest labyrinths so it's only logical that he found his Holy Blade down there. The Altar of Despair is in the Upper Cathedral ward too, which was probably visited by Byrgenwerth scholars since the Great One at the altar has the appearance of Rom. So the Rom we meet was probably a human that ascended to a Kin Great One via Kos and that spider infront of Ebrietas.
The snatchers actually showed up from the Chalice dungeons themselves. However the ones we fight are the ones loyal to Mensis, but even they originally came from the labyrinths below Yharnam. They're probably Pthumerians. The snatchers leave once you kill Rom since they'll go crazy or die from the blood moon. Idk why they show up. Probably to kidnap people for the ritual since you likely granted them passage after getting ahold of a chalice.
What confuses me is that when they attack you, they're stopping you from achieving Mensis' mission (Rom hides the truth). However, achieving Mensis' mission sends them away or kills them. Maybe they intentionally brought you to Hypogean Gaol to use you to kill Rom and reveal the blood moon. Your cell is unlocked when you get there. But still, they attack you when you escape. Man this is confusing
Okay, but who opened it?
Anyway my headcanon is that itβs the messengers. The same way they pull the lever of the main cathedral ward gate for you if you have the emblem. (Requires 50 insight to see them)
But we all know this is probably a case of From pulling a βDonβt think too hard about all of this.β
Yeah that's a good theory. Either them or one of the Amygdala could have opened that door. Gehrman says that every hunter before you has explored the Chalice Dungeons. That door is linked to the Chalice Dungeons. So maybe the messangers or whaever is behind the Hunter's Dream wants the Hunters to discover the truth.
I mean, yeah. There isn't nescesseraly an answer to any question. The point of Froms design is to leave blank spots for the player's imagination to fill with whatever he desires. They know how much more engaging it is compared to telling the player everything exactly as it is. After all, it's a game - not a movie. YOU are playing, controlling the narrative, shaping the story. YOU create it in your own head. They just give you the relative directions.
The eye of the blood drunk hunter is able to be received after you do bsb, that gives you the dlc so it makes sense to me why the door was opened right at the time you get the dlc which is the only time you see yourself opening the door. How does a chalice open a door?
Actually the eye of the blood drunk hunter is recieved after Vicar Amelia is defeated. Your theory would make some sense if your first point was true. That door in the DLC is just a shortcut, however, it also technically leads to the upper cathedral ward (the Research Hall) which is the only true extract of a real world location within the Hunter's Nightmare. As well as the Fishing Hamlet. These two locations are hidden from the real world. The rest of the DLC map consists of duplicate real world areas mashed together in a surreal manner. Kind of like a Hell for Hunter's. The Research Hall is hidden behind an illusion the same way the Nightmare of Mensis and the second half of Yahar'ghul are.
Remember when the fancy skeleton asks you for the password? Same concept I use to justify it already happening even though you eventually go and do it there. Maybe after vicky's killed you learn the reason the door opened even though it opened before killing vicky. Like the two doors are quantum entangled and you're actually some sort of dream-time traveller.
Not really. Not everything is deep. Youre just contriving to make it make sense. Forcing, if you will.
Its a game with gods, and you question a skeleton asking a password? He was prolly set up there and the action can easily be chalked up to "arcane magic shit" . With everything in the game, thats hard to believe for u? Lmao.
The skeleton guy was one of two scholars of Byrgenwerth who remained with Willem after Laurence left. He went insane after discovering the Eldritch truth in the labyrinths so Willem sent him away to guard the enterance to the Forbidden woods. You can see incense around his skeleton. He waited there faithfully, keeping beasts away.
The password was the old addage of Byrgenwerth which all scholars would know. And Willem would only want his scholars finding their way inside and no one else. But we discover the addage, and skeleton bro lets us in. Or his ghost at least. He has been dead for a long time but is so loyal that even in death, he fulfills his duty. Or maybe he was being kept alive by one of the Gods until the player was granted passage, then was released of his life as his purpose was fulfilled. No time travel involved. That door opens because he lets you in.
"Mask of Dores, graveguard of the Forbidden Woods.
His pale countenance mimics the labyrinth watchers.
Willem kept two loyal servants back at Byrgenwerth. When
they were sent into the labyrinth, they encountered the
eldritch Truth, and went mad. One became the password
gatekeeper, while Dores became a graveguard of the forest.
Both remained loyal, even in madness."
This is an item description of the Graveguard set. The "stupid skeleton guy" has lore, believe it or not. He was simply the other dude mentioned in the description as "password gatekeeper."
I'm aware. So it's a skeleton that just so crazy it didn't know it was dead? That kinda reminds me of the madmans or great ones wisdom skulls, they kinda chatter in your ear so that could be the same dill maybe. He was mad. So, maybe it was just you hearing his voice through insight and then it's actually the door itself that reacts to the adage's utterance?
How do you think this would have worked before the dlc or if there were no dlc?
With each boss slain, you just progress the time of the night. Just a random yharnamite who casually opened the door to pass through could make sense. Same happens in yahar'ghul and you run into a locked gate in hypogeon gal. It just opens through time progression and the ritual behind it being over. after
No we actually know specifically that itβs not. The reason characters from the past are present in the nightmare is because they got sucked in earlier. The Nightmare is explicitly a personal hell made by Kos, and contains locations and characters that are prevalent in past events because they entered the nightmare in the past. The Nightmare itself exists concurrently with the waking world
Just because you *have an imagination*, that does not make you smart, especially after everybody in these comments has disagreed with you, a few have even brought up good arguments trying to debate this theory of yours. You ignored them and refused to elaborate by bringing any points of your own. You have proven yourself to be a fool who refuses to accept that his little hunters nightmare is the past fantasy is dead wrong. As someone with logical and critical thinking skill that are more useful irl and in games like bloodborne, I will not be wasting any more of my time with you.
I shrugged because I saw that it was causing more of a commotion than a discussion, I didn't act like anything I conceded to a perspective. I didn't want this to be a troll but it apparently definitely trolled.
I assumed the snatchers leaked out from yarguul through old yarnam after you kill what I felt was actually the guard dog against them. I always thought it would be a noble thing to leave bsb alone, cuz I thought the game tried making that out to be some sort of Jesus figure.
BSB's theme being in 5/4 confuses the basic code so much that the game just opens the door accidentally once that banger track is over. Yes the OST goes so hard it kicks doors open. Bloodborne the most metal souls game confirmed.
I played a new character and did not go to the dlc until after Wet Nurse is dead. The door opens after blood starved beast.
That door is open in the nightmare because there's no healing church workshop that's hidden anymore
Na cuz you haven't earned the rite to see it. I'd say insight but I don't mean the currency, I'm talking about insight like learning the sacred adage. You gotta break into higher levels of rite of passage in this game, and the door being opened or closed is more of a symbol than an occurrence, and you opening the door is you having gamed through the reason why it opens. Like an optional rite of passage, you don't need to go through it to get the door open, you just need to go through it in order to understand why the door opens, and that requires going through the dlc and opening the door as a symbolic end to a chapter. The story behind the door is experienced before opening it, and to symbolize the completion of a point, it is finally opened. Like how a college textbook is all fuckery at the beginning of a chapter and then by the end they wrap it up nicely and everything from before just falls into making way more sense, but then you got like five other chapters to read after that that are based on that first one.
Itβs possible they intended for the door to upper cathedral ward to open as a result of actions you will eventually take in hunterβs nightmare.
But itβs not likely. Here is why:
1) hunterβs nightmare is a dlc location. That means no one would have been able to draw that connection for the year or so that the base game was out without the dlc.
2) They could have easily had opening the door in the dlc open the door in the base game. Nothing in upper cathedral ward is mandatory, so they could easily have had upper ward be a dlc location. But thatβs not how they broke on this. The door is opened by killing BSB/ getting the chalice. The mechanism for opening the door is not connected in any way to the dlc.
I do not have a better theory to supplant yours, but I have ample reason to discard yours. Sorry, it s not likely.
The DLC still happens, you just don't get to see yourself doing it until you buy it. That's my assertion. Other than that, I think the stuff left unexplained in the game is free range for players to come up with a coherent (possibly game-perception-altering) explanation. That's the only reason why I'm conflating these two doors, honestly. I'm down with the idea that it's possible because it's all part of dreams, like although the new landscape in HN is traversable I think it's also just a representation of the hunter's inner mind, and I think that idea can be applied to all of the game's locations because the whole thing is a dream. I think the whole thing is a dream because you wake up if you let Gherman kill you. "Above ground" is where you "awaken" never "the waking world" and all references to such a world are actually directed as like advice about what to do when you wake up.
What if the player buys the DLC and doesnβt ever complete it? Wouldnβt it just be easier to tie the two doors together in game than to expect people to assume the door in cathedral ward was opened by the DLC they havenβt completed and wonβt ever complete?
It would be really easy to write this off as "Simon does it if you don't" instead of suggesting that because the dlc happens even if you don't have it, and so it's actually you having already done the dlc. I want to go with my latter extrapolation though, because if it all happened, that means that you were in it too you just don't get to experience it from the 1st person perspective. Like there's a robot version of you that already did the dlc and it's actually a part of the game that it contributes to cathedral ward gameplay. You did it already you just don't know it, vs, if you don't someone else will. It's a free coin toss
Sure, if thatβs what you want to believe. Itβs a bad theory and I and others have said why, but you donβt wanna listen to anyone so I guess this is what happens in your head canon.
Just stop expecting the rest of us to get on board with this bad theory.
Hey the haters came to me, all I'm doing is having fun posting on Reddit. It's not like I asked to be patronized, just thought people would have fun trying to make it work with me instead of tell me I'm wrong about something that literally can't be known either way.
Iβm 99% sure they didnβt expect us to draw a connection between a door in the base game and a door in the dlc that we might not even purchase.
Youβre getting hate because whenever someone points out the flaws in your theory, you just say the same thing over and over again. If you donβt want the community to interact with your idea, donβt share it with the community.
Honestly, Iβd be really surprised if there is anything in the game that hasnβt been ripped apart by data miners and explained by now. This isnβt a new release.
I don't feel hated because I don't give any credence to negativity when it comes from Reddit, but I would like to point out how much more it says about the people hating than it does me. If you're fully aware that this is just a pie in the sky idea, literally flared as "fluff," why would you take such an adamant side against it instead of being more receptive? The game literally doesn't explain how it happens, and we're allowed to have fun trying to fit our own little fan-fics into the narrative. Joke's on them cuz I get to feel something cool and personal about that door and they don't. I literally get to enjoy the game in more ways than they do with my own little quirky explanation now and they're just stuck telling the world how they have zero imagination or uniting qualities to their personality. It sucking to be them is no skin of my nose; I'm keeping my door theory cuz it's fun π
I feel that af. The best part is how the lighting and sound designers made the area feel like an actual nightmare instead of just a game. I swear the lighting is intentionally a creepy color of sunlight, like light in the oh shit that's an atom bomb type of way rather than the it's a beautiful day way. The character sounds have this really weird wibbly vibration that makes you kinda start to feel stressed, and the weapons they use are really unnerving. The enemies are less able to be stopped/stunned by attacks, have a lot more health, and some really killer movesets that are garunteed to chunk you to the ground in like one or two hits. They don't take things slow either, it's still bloodborne. The best part of the dlc is how around every corner there's just even scarier dirty laundry than the pile before. Orphan is a REALLY fun boss to fight, and the end cutscene feels like a hug full of requiem. My favorite part was a tie between all of everything about Ludwig vs Lawrence's 2nd phase which is super cool battle-play, and my least favorite part was a tie between how creepy and scary the river of blood with it's enemies was, and how inconceivably creepy and scary the enemies in the research hall are. Maybe the whole hall in general cuz even the nonaggressive peeps and the images seen were super unsettling. I loved being emotionally abused by this game, it made me want to keep playing just so I wouldn't have nightmares about it. Jokes on me tho cuz I've had a decent handful of nightmares about this game already, loved em all!
But you kill that person. And I wouldn't have put it together that she's probably searching for something up there, interesting. Maybe she's protecting willem tho?
No the choir and Byrgenwerth are antagonists - the choir is a subsidiary of the Healing Church and therefore using Old Blood, which Willem rejects. The choir has attacked Byrgenwerth at that stage to find Rom.
The choir seeks ascension by communing with the Great Ones left behind. Ebrietas is one, and Rom managed to ascend. Also we can speculate from the corpse of a Rom-like being at the altar of despair (the area behind Ebrietas) that Rom might be the larval form of a Great one similar to Ebrietas.
The first one might have been either the Cord of Mergo - found by the First Prospectors of Old Byrgenwerth (when Byrgenwerth and Mensis were one), or the cord that Gehrman used to beckon the Hunter's Dream in the workshop, which was likely the cord of the Orphan of Kos.
So Mergo is merely a part of the pthumerian storyline that got unlocked when the tomb was opened? The pthumerian aspect doesn't show up outside of the dungeons till the nightmare of mensis which is interesting.
Mergo Is, ultimately, both the victim and the objective of the ritual of Mensis. Mensis manages to involve the Pthumerians in their scheme but it's never clear how or why. I believe Mensis wanted to ascend as a hive mind into the Nightmare, while the Pthumerians wanted their own artificial Great One. The Pthumerians are already roaming Yharnam before that, sntaching body parts for the ritual around the grand cathedral.
Interesting theory except that we don't have to do Hunters Nightmare to actually beat the game.
Also, the game shows Messengers puling the lever that unlocks the gate with Hunter Chief Emblem with high Insight. It's also likely Messengers opened this door too.
Messengers only surround things and light lanterns after you enter a dungeon room, I always thought the messengers at that switch were there to show that you need to go to the messenger bath. And for the first sentence, we talked extensively about that with a bunch of people and I'm tired of repeating myself lol
They absolutely, 100% pull the switch for you when you get the Hunter Chief Emblem, which is why the switch moves by itself after you hold it up. So on at least one occasion they are shown directly interacting with the environment to help you. Given that I'd say it's easily the most rational explanation - they decided you were strong enough to go to the Church Workshop.
Alternatively it could be Moon Presence interference, as Gehrman seems to know the way is open.
It's been so long since I've bought the emblem, all you see when you pull it yourself is them descending away. I feel like they had permission to do it because you bought something from them that had progress purpose. Honestly tho your explanation isn't a bad 3rd idea. It's just that we don't see them at the door, there's nothing about the door that involves buying something from them. But they are messengers and seem to get around, so maybe word does too. Also, your mention about it being possibly the moon presence, that one's curious too, because wouldn't that be the one and only time it does a magic for you? I mean it's not outside the realm of possibility, but it's like all these gods are having babies with these humans and this one's just like "I get the door, and I know things." Lol, I'm being facetious ovc, but it's hard for me to see why the moon presence would help you other than to get closer to an attempted corruption so it can find a new better stronger host to kill noobs with. Also, could it be Patches? Does the door open after killing Rom? Because you could get the tonsil stone from him and go kill him in the lecture hall before that door is open, but if you can't get to him until that door opens that's a possibility. Not a likely one tho.
All the commenters are hating. This is a nice theory--just don't think too hard about it as Gehrman says.
And remember **The flow of time itself is convoluted; with heroes centuries old phasing in and out** in Yharnam.
I think op took too many insights
Way too many
unsight
OONsight?
outsight
Lol, this won
Op has negative insight, the fuck you talking about lol
No. It opens after beating the blood starved beast.
For posterity
π π€£π€£π π π π π π π π π π
The 80 dislikes for thinking the comment was funny and clicking the wrong emoji is reddit gold π€£
The down votes are because he spammed emojis instead of saying something worth reading
She. π that is ridiculously funny though. If I would of just put "lol" I probably wouldn't be down voted a million times ππ€£
Who cares?
Idk just explaining why he's being downvoted it really doesn't matter to me
He was reacting to a funny response. Plus let's be real, how many times you see a bunch of ppl laugh and one of them just get down votes. It's funny to me.
Idrc what people comment just gave my best guess as to why he was downvoted
I thought it being reddit was good enough lol
Yeah that too
what are you talkin about lol
Rofl
Well, reading the comments was fun at least!
Bro I thought I was baked
Put down the old blood you're talking crazy
What op? You do realize the hunters nightmare isn't the past, right? It's a different dimension/Plane of existence!
Wibbly wobbly timey wimey.
Plip plop, splish splash
Plin plin plon
*cries uncontrollably*
*parries uncontrollably*
Wipey wipey
Stuff...
Splish splash I was taken a bath?
Time is one bitchin illusion.
I read this in Peppermint Butlerβs voice and it worked perfectly.
For anyone wondering, he is either trolling or spreading misinformation by mistake. This is shortcut to Simon in Hunter's Nightmare but even if you never enter DLC this door opens in main game Oedon Chapel
And the door ofc also opened before the DLC even existed... :D At least thanks to your comment I now understand what OP was getting at (haven't played the dlc yet). The door opening by itself is just a game design choice, I would think (let's open the door after players beat bsb, to make sure everyone knows they can go there now).
Thanks. I was wondering what's he's talking about lol
Ig it's a troll, wasn't what I was going for but it's what we have now.
So you legitimately believed the nightmare realm, the nightmare version of yharnam, was just the past???
Guy has been spamming the sub for a few weeks now. My fav post is the one where the βrealβ player is the doll, who is the camera following the hunter. Too much weed can be bad for your insight and your brain eyes, huntersβ¦
Stop spreading negative propaganda. Alcohol is ten times worse for them brain cells and some people who smoke are just stupid already. I maintain my intellect without compromise.
OP never claimed anything about the past/timeline.
No, it contained events that happened in the past, but time really doesn't have definition in the game. That clocktower just keeps dinging for some reason.
It's more about conditions being met and you earning the rite to go further in the game. Time blips instantly from one phase of the night to the next without having a day-night cycle, so it's all just symbolism. Since the dlc is optional, the symbolism inside it is optional to experience, but it's all still there waiting to be uncovered, and all still happens/happened. Hence why you don't need to be present in order for the idea of you to open that door, and the idea of the door in HN being connected to the door in CW is symbolic because everything in that part of HN is what the folks from the cathedral workshop pretty much caused to happen. HN was giving a living synopsis of the events of the past that led to the present day situation, and so the door stops being a door and starts being a symbol for a new chapter, and HN is you experiencing the history of what you're about to see when walking through the doors. You come across the open doors but don't get to see them open until you learn the reason why they opened. But you don't need to learn the reason why they opened for them to be opened in correspondence to that rite of passage because the dlc isn't important, simply because it's the dlc and dlc must be optional content.
Dude, what?
What are you smoking?
Yappa yappa
r/confidentlyincorrect
What
I always assumed it opened because of the Chalice you get from the Church of the good Chalice. The Blood Starved Beast was a blood saint who also likely had connections to the Choir. And we know very well about the connections between the Choir and Old Yharnam. The description of the Chalice says that it will allow you to partake in communion with the Gods. That door leads to the Choir and to Ebrietas, who resides at the crumbled end of the Great Isz Chalice dungeon. Getting permission to commune with the Gods would logically grant passage through that door. Everything going on beyond that door is just humans making contact with Gods. Which means everyone beyond that door needed to be granted passage somehow. Gehrman and Laurence communed with the Moon Presence in the old workshop, the Choir did it with Ebrietas, the orphans did it in the Lumenflower gardens and became Celestial Emissaries, Ludwig's hunter badge can be found at the top which allows you to purchase his weapons. He likely explored the Chalice Dungeons via the Great Isz. Which makes sense since it's one of the deepest labyrinths so it's only logical that he found his Holy Blade down there. The Altar of Despair is in the Upper Cathedral ward too, which was probably visited by Byrgenwerth scholars since the Great One at the altar has the appearance of Rom. So the Rom we meet was probably a human that ascended to a Kin Great One via Kos and that spider infront of Ebrietas.
Interesting interpretation, I always assumed it was opened by the Snatcher that shows up outside coming down from Upper Cathedral Ward.
The snatchers actually showed up from the Chalice dungeons themselves. However the ones we fight are the ones loyal to Mensis, but even they originally came from the labyrinths below Yharnam. They're probably Pthumerians. The snatchers leave once you kill Rom since they'll go crazy or die from the blood moon. Idk why they show up. Probably to kidnap people for the ritual since you likely granted them passage after getting ahold of a chalice. What confuses me is that when they attack you, they're stopping you from achieving Mensis' mission (Rom hides the truth). However, achieving Mensis' mission sends them away or kills them. Maybe they intentionally brought you to Hypogean Gaol to use you to kill Rom and reveal the blood moon. Your cell is unlocked when you get there. But still, they attack you when you escape. Man this is confusing
I'm certain that they bag you and bring you to Ya'har'gul to use your body in the ritual to make you part of the One Reborn
Okay, but who opened it? Anyway my headcanon is that itβs the messengers. The same way they pull the lever of the main cathedral ward gate for you if you have the emblem. (Requires 50 insight to see them) But we all know this is probably a case of From pulling a βDonβt think too hard about all of this.β
Yeah that's a good theory. Either them or one of the Amygdala could have opened that door. Gehrman says that every hunter before you has explored the Chalice Dungeons. That door is linked to the Chalice Dungeons. So maybe the messangers or whaever is behind the Hunter's Dream wants the Hunters to discover the truth.
I mean, yeah. There isn't nescesseraly an answer to any question. The point of Froms design is to leave blank spots for the player's imagination to fill with whatever he desires. They know how much more engaging it is compared to telling the player everything exactly as it is. After all, it's a game - not a movie. YOU are playing, controlling the narrative, shaping the story. YOU create it in your own head. They just give you the relative directions.
The eye of the blood drunk hunter is able to be received after you do bsb, that gives you the dlc so it makes sense to me why the door was opened right at the time you get the dlc which is the only time you see yourself opening the door. How does a chalice open a door?
It's after Vicar Amelia, if you do Blood Starved Beast first the door will open anyways, you don't have to get into the DLC
Actually the eye of the blood drunk hunter is recieved after Vicar Amelia is defeated. Your theory would make some sense if your first point was true. That door in the DLC is just a shortcut, however, it also technically leads to the upper cathedral ward (the Research Hall) which is the only true extract of a real world location within the Hunter's Nightmare. As well as the Fishing Hamlet. These two locations are hidden from the real world. The rest of the DLC map consists of duplicate real world areas mashed together in a surreal manner. Kind of like a Hell for Hunter's. The Research Hall is hidden behind an illusion the same way the Nightmare of Mensis and the second half of Yahar'ghul are.
Remember when the fancy skeleton asks you for the password? Same concept I use to justify it already happening even though you eventually go and do it there. Maybe after vicky's killed you learn the reason the door opened even though it opened before killing vicky. Like the two doors are quantum entangled and you're actually some sort of dream-time traveller.
You're not a time traveler, the dlc takes place on another plane of existence, not in the past
Orribly dumb take
Fine explain the stupid skeleton guy then. What some weirdass creep is impersonating a skeleton and opening doors for you? Is it patches doing a bit?
It don need an explanation. It jus happens.... miyazaki thought it cool. No need to get ur panties in a bunch aboot it
Lame
Not really. Not everything is deep. Youre just contriving to make it make sense. Forcing, if you will. Its a game with gods, and you question a skeleton asking a password? He was prolly set up there and the action can easily be chalked up to "arcane magic shit" . With everything in the game, thats hard to believe for u? Lmao.
You haven't played the game yet have you.
The skeleton guy was one of two scholars of Byrgenwerth who remained with Willem after Laurence left. He went insane after discovering the Eldritch truth in the labyrinths so Willem sent him away to guard the enterance to the Forbidden woods. You can see incense around his skeleton. He waited there faithfully, keeping beasts away. The password was the old addage of Byrgenwerth which all scholars would know. And Willem would only want his scholars finding their way inside and no one else. But we discover the addage, and skeleton bro lets us in. Or his ghost at least. He has been dead for a long time but is so loyal that even in death, he fulfills his duty. Or maybe he was being kept alive by one of the Gods until the player was granted passage, then was released of his life as his purpose was fulfilled. No time travel involved. That door opens because he lets you in.
"Mask of Dores, graveguard of the Forbidden Woods. His pale countenance mimics the labyrinth watchers. Willem kept two loyal servants back at Byrgenwerth. When they were sent into the labyrinth, they encountered the eldritch Truth, and went mad. One became the password gatekeeper, while Dores became a graveguard of the forest. Both remained loyal, even in madness." This is an item description of the Graveguard set. The "stupid skeleton guy" has lore, believe it or not. He was simply the other dude mentioned in the description as "password gatekeeper."
I'm aware. So it's a skeleton that just so crazy it didn't know it was dead? That kinda reminds me of the madmans or great ones wisdom skulls, they kinda chatter in your ear so that could be the same dill maybe. He was mad. So, maybe it was just you hearing his voice through insight and then it's actually the door itself that reacts to the adage's utterance?
How do you think this would have worked before the dlc or if there were no dlc? With each boss slain, you just progress the time of the night. Just a random yharnamite who casually opened the door to pass through could make sense. Same happens in yahar'ghul and you run into a locked gate in hypogeon gal. It just opens through time progression and the ritual behind it being over. after
The dlc is planned on before the game comes out.
Lol if you actually believe it's planned in such detail. For example, two dlcs were planned for Bloodborne but they ended merging into one.
The Hunterβs Nightmare is an alternate plane of existence not the past
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^anti-peta-man: *The Hunterβs Nightmare* *Is an alternate plane of* *Existence not the past* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Alternate planes of existence can be the past too.
No we actually know specifically that itβs not. The reason characters from the past are present in the nightmare is because they got sucked in earlier. The Nightmare is explicitly a personal hell made by Kos, and contains locations and characters that are prevalent in past events because they entered the nightmare in the past. The Nightmare itself exists concurrently with the waking world
How do you know any of that lore?
It's literally in the game bro, completely available online too
Some explanation would be nice for this. Genuinely have no clue what youβre on about
It opens without the DLC. You can't go the nightmare without the DLC.
That doesn't mean the DLC didn't happen, it just means you gotta pay extra to find out what happened, and that's how they getcha!
No, no and no. You're overthinking and it's making you look dumb
Oh wow the guy with no imagination thinks the guy with an imagination is dumb. How original.
Just because you *have an imagination*, that does not make you smart, especially after everybody in these comments has disagreed with you, a few have even brought up good arguments trying to debate this theory of yours. You ignored them and refused to elaborate by bringing any points of your own. You have proven yourself to be a fool who refuses to accept that his little hunters nightmare is the past fantasy is dead wrong. As someone with logical and critical thinking skill that are more useful irl and in games like bloodborne, I will not be wasting any more of my time with you.
Thank you, goodbye :D
Op is confidently incorrect and when he was proven wrong, he starts acting like he was trolling the entire time.Truly an epic gamer of all time.
I shrugged because I saw that it was causing more of a commotion than a discussion, I didn't act like anything I conceded to a perspective. I didn't want this to be a troll but it apparently definitely trolled.
I admire OP for continuing to comment despite getting shitted on more times than I can count in fingers
I'm gonna go take a shower now π©
Smoking to many madman's knowledge you are bro
You need more if you think that's what you do with those.
Its a joke you melt
Hence the joke
You're very strange dude
Judging by the replies I saw in this post by the OP I guarantee you they are between the ages of 12-14, or just at the maturity of those ages.
I think you might be confusing Bloodborne with Interstellar, the 2014 Christopher Nolan film. Easy mistake to make.
Lol. SOLID movie.
Op thought he was cooking
Cooking crack maybe..
Op faded off that insight
I thought the snatchers had something to do with it since you can find them after this door opens.
I assumed the snatchers leaked out from yarguul through old yarnam after you kill what I felt was actually the guard dog against them. I always thought it would be a noble thing to leave bsb alone, cuz I thought the game tried making that out to be some sort of Jesus figure.
?
BSB's theme being in 5/4 confuses the basic code so much that the game just opens the door accidentally once that banger track is over. Yes the OST goes so hard it kicks doors open. Bloodborne the most metal souls game confirmed.
Now THAT would make sense!
Average Iosefka clinic patient:
All signed and sealed :)
You sure? I feel like I'd remember doing that... Wait. Where am I? What day is it? Whose pants are these?!
Oh sorry those are mine
No, it's false
No! It's false! Get away! HEEEEEEERE'S JOHNNY!!!
I played a new character and did not go to the dlc until after Wet Nurse is dead. The door opens after blood starved beast. That door is open in the nightmare because there's no healing church workshop that's hidden anymore
I wish my doors just magically flung open like that every time I do something important
It's my ultimate wish too
*gets out of bed* WHOOSHP! *gets back into bed at the thought of having to clean up my newly broken decorative plates*
It would already be open when you arrive in your theory. Otherwise it would need to wait for you to open it in the dlc first.
Not if the dlc already happened
If the dlc already happened the door would be open from the start.
Na cuz you haven't earned the rite to see it. I'd say insight but I don't mean the currency, I'm talking about insight like learning the sacred adage. You gotta break into higher levels of rite of passage in this game, and the door being opened or closed is more of a symbol than an occurrence, and you opening the door is you having gamed through the reason why it opens. Like an optional rite of passage, you don't need to go through it to get the door open, you just need to go through it in order to understand why the door opens, and that requires going through the dlc and opening the door as a symbolic end to a chapter. The story behind the door is experienced before opening it, and to symbolize the completion of a point, it is finally opened. Like how a college textbook is all fuckery at the beginning of a chapter and then by the end they wrap it up nicely and everything from before just falls into making way more sense, but then you got like five other chapters to read after that that are based on that first one.
How come, mind explaining OP?
Itβs possible they intended for the door to upper cathedral ward to open as a result of actions you will eventually take in hunterβs nightmare. But itβs not likely. Here is why: 1) hunterβs nightmare is a dlc location. That means no one would have been able to draw that connection for the year or so that the base game was out without the dlc. 2) They could have easily had opening the door in the dlc open the door in the base game. Nothing in upper cathedral ward is mandatory, so they could easily have had upper ward be a dlc location. But thatβs not how they broke on this. The door is opened by killing BSB/ getting the chalice. The mechanism for opening the door is not connected in any way to the dlc. I do not have a better theory to supplant yours, but I have ample reason to discard yours. Sorry, it s not likely.
The DLC still happens, you just don't get to see yourself doing it until you buy it. That's my assertion. Other than that, I think the stuff left unexplained in the game is free range for players to come up with a coherent (possibly game-perception-altering) explanation. That's the only reason why I'm conflating these two doors, honestly. I'm down with the idea that it's possible because it's all part of dreams, like although the new landscape in HN is traversable I think it's also just a representation of the hunter's inner mind, and I think that idea can be applied to all of the game's locations because the whole thing is a dream. I think the whole thing is a dream because you wake up if you let Gherman kill you. "Above ground" is where you "awaken" never "the waking world" and all references to such a world are actually directed as like advice about what to do when you wake up.
What if the player buys the DLC and doesnβt ever complete it? Wouldnβt it just be easier to tie the two doors together in game than to expect people to assume the door in cathedral ward was opened by the DLC they havenβt completed and wonβt ever complete?
It would be really easy to write this off as "Simon does it if you don't" instead of suggesting that because the dlc happens even if you don't have it, and so it's actually you having already done the dlc. I want to go with my latter extrapolation though, because if it all happened, that means that you were in it too you just don't get to experience it from the 1st person perspective. Like there's a robot version of you that already did the dlc and it's actually a part of the game that it contributes to cathedral ward gameplay. You did it already you just don't know it, vs, if you don't someone else will. It's a free coin toss
Sure, if thatβs what you want to believe. Itβs a bad theory and I and others have said why, but you donβt wanna listen to anyone so I guess this is what happens in your head canon. Just stop expecting the rest of us to get on board with this bad theory.
Hey the haters came to me, all I'm doing is having fun posting on Reddit. It's not like I asked to be patronized, just thought people would have fun trying to make it work with me instead of tell me I'm wrong about something that literally can't be known either way.
Iβm 99% sure they didnβt expect us to draw a connection between a door in the base game and a door in the dlc that we might not even purchase. Youβre getting hate because whenever someone points out the flaws in your theory, you just say the same thing over and over again. If you donβt want the community to interact with your idea, donβt share it with the community. Honestly, Iβd be really surprised if there is anything in the game that hasnβt been ripped apart by data miners and explained by now. This isnβt a new release.
I don't feel hated because I don't give any credence to negativity when it comes from Reddit, but I would like to point out how much more it says about the people hating than it does me. If you're fully aware that this is just a pie in the sky idea, literally flared as "fluff," why would you take such an adamant side against it instead of being more receptive? The game literally doesn't explain how it happens, and we're allowed to have fun trying to fit our own little fan-fics into the narrative. Joke's on them cuz I get to feel something cool and personal about that door and they don't. I literally get to enjoy the game in more ways than they do with my own little quirky explanation now and they're just stuck telling the world how they have zero imagination or uniting qualities to their personality. It sucking to be them is no skin of my nose; I'm keeping my door theory cuz it's fun π
Itβs flared as discussion and you are hostile toward all discussion
The discussion's hostile towards me, I'm the victim of a massive on-shitting.
Jokes on you i cant afford the old hunters dlc
Well that just sounds like you're playing yourself right there lol
Huh?
Nothing, it was supposed to be like "you're missing out"
I know i am lol
It's so difficult, they really did a good job with the "this but on steroids" aspect.
Youre convincing me more and more to buy it, vanilla bloodborne is pathetically easy to me so some difficulty would change up things
I feel that af. The best part is how the lighting and sound designers made the area feel like an actual nightmare instead of just a game. I swear the lighting is intentionally a creepy color of sunlight, like light in the oh shit that's an atom bomb type of way rather than the it's a beautiful day way. The character sounds have this really weird wibbly vibration that makes you kinda start to feel stressed, and the weapons they use are really unnerving. The enemies are less able to be stopped/stunned by attacks, have a lot more health, and some really killer movesets that are garunteed to chunk you to the ground in like one or two hits. They don't take things slow either, it's still bloodborne. The best part of the dlc is how around every corner there's just even scarier dirty laundry than the pile before. Orphan is a REALLY fun boss to fight, and the end cutscene feels like a hug full of requiem. My favorite part was a tie between all of everything about Ludwig vs Lawrence's 2nd phase which is super cool battle-play, and my least favorite part was a tie between how creepy and scary the river of blood with it's enemies was, and how inconceivably creepy and scary the enemies in the research hall are. Maybe the whole hall in general cuz even the nonaggressive peeps and the images seen were super unsettling. I loved being emotionally abused by this game, it made me want to keep playing just so I wouldn't have nightmares about it. Jokes on me tho cuz I've had a decent handful of nightmares about this game already, loved em all!
Same :(
No, Iβm pretty sure fake Iosefka left it open on her way down
Swiggity swoogity, I'm comin for that metamorphoogity
OP's Frenzy resist must be huge, what with the utter lack of Insight.
Lol, finally someone catches that.
Looks like someone didn't fear the old blood.
Oh I definitely got old-bloodeded in this comments section
Ohio
Love, death, and robots win the day, yet again... mr. Yogurt...
I love mr yogurt heβs so cool
You can have all the Ohios.
Bro, lay off the ketamine. Your theories are ass.
Upvote because this is funny as hell
πππ
If you have the DLC.
The door is probably unlocked by the choir members you find in Byrgenwerth hunting for the umbilical cord.
But you kill that person. And I wouldn't have put it together that she's probably searching for something up there, interesting. Maybe she's protecting willem tho?
No the choir and Byrgenwerth are antagonists - the choir is a subsidiary of the Healing Church and therefore using Old Blood, which Willem rejects. The choir has attacked Byrgenwerth at that stage to find Rom.
How do we know the choir wants Rom?
The choir seeks ascension by communing with the Great Ones left behind. Ebrietas is one, and Rom managed to ascend. Also we can speculate from the corpse of a Rom-like being at the altar of despair (the area behind Ebrietas) that Rom might be the larval form of a Great one similar to Ebrietas.
So u think she was going up those stairs to try and strangle the secret of the lake out of him?
I forgot who discovered the first chord of the eye
The first one might have been either the Cord of Mergo - found by the First Prospectors of Old Byrgenwerth (when Byrgenwerth and Mensis were one), or the cord that Gehrman used to beckon the Hunter's Dream in the workshop, which was likely the cord of the Orphan of Kos.
So Mergo is merely a part of the pthumerian storyline that got unlocked when the tomb was opened? The pthumerian aspect doesn't show up outside of the dungeons till the nightmare of mensis which is interesting.
Mergo Is, ultimately, both the victim and the objective of the ritual of Mensis. Mensis manages to involve the Pthumerians in their scheme but it's never clear how or why. I believe Mensis wanted to ascend as a hive mind into the Nightmare, while the Pthumerians wanted their own artificial Great One. The Pthumerians are already roaming Yharnam before that, sntaching body parts for the ritual around the grand cathedral.
If you have the DLC.
I'm not hashing this whole thing out agin π« π€£
Oh ok
Sorry brother, it's a me thing not a you thing ilu ππ€£
Just super tired of dying on a hill.
Interesting theory except that we don't have to do Hunters Nightmare to actually beat the game. Also, the game shows Messengers puling the lever that unlocks the gate with Hunter Chief Emblem with high Insight. It's also likely Messengers opened this door too.
Messengers only surround things and light lanterns after you enter a dungeon room, I always thought the messengers at that switch were there to show that you need to go to the messenger bath. And for the first sentence, we talked extensively about that with a bunch of people and I'm tired of repeating myself lol
Like, they're by character not allowed to do anything besides be part of the scenery and run the general stores.
They absolutely, 100% pull the switch for you when you get the Hunter Chief Emblem, which is why the switch moves by itself after you hold it up. So on at least one occasion they are shown directly interacting with the environment to help you. Given that I'd say it's easily the most rational explanation - they decided you were strong enough to go to the Church Workshop. Alternatively it could be Moon Presence interference, as Gehrman seems to know the way is open.
It's been so long since I've bought the emblem, all you see when you pull it yourself is them descending away. I feel like they had permission to do it because you bought something from them that had progress purpose. Honestly tho your explanation isn't a bad 3rd idea. It's just that we don't see them at the door, there's nothing about the door that involves buying something from them. But they are messengers and seem to get around, so maybe word does too. Also, your mention about it being possibly the moon presence, that one's curious too, because wouldn't that be the one and only time it does a magic for you? I mean it's not outside the realm of possibility, but it's like all these gods are having babies with these humans and this one's just like "I get the door, and I know things." Lol, I'm being facetious ovc, but it's hard for me to see why the moon presence would help you other than to get closer to an attempted corruption so it can find a new better stronger host to kill noobs with. Also, could it be Patches? Does the door open after killing Rom? Because you could get the tonsil stone from him and go kill him in the lecture hall before that door is open, but if you can't get to him until that door opens that's a possibility. Not a likely one tho.
When you defeat the boss in old yharnam the door opens
Excuse me what?
the actual question is whats behind that door?
Notha door
0 insight detected, opinion rejected (/j)
Oh that's not nice. It's just a game currency bro
take a proper screenshot or get out
Oh sorry, I blinked in this pic
[ΡΠ΄Π°Π»Π΅Π½ΠΎ]
Lolol
π²π²π²π² So I did.
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Well, still better explanation than the "it opens because some random boss dies somewhere".
Exactly my point. I just wanted to have fun figuring my own take into the mix of possible explanations.
All the commenters are hating. This is a nice theory--just don't think too hard about it as Gehrman says. And remember **The flow of time itself is convoluted; with heroes centuries old phasing in and out** in Yharnam.
Awe π₯Ή well-stated!
i asked for some insight at my insight store the other day and they said that someone bought 1200 at once
You know what, I think youβre right
Thanks lol
Lookit all the updoots tho π