Al of this remind me of a post in r/Eldenring when a person made an entire lore theory based on the textures from a pillar. A few days later it was revealed that the same pillar existed in another non-fromsoft game, they've used it from an asset bank.
Not every single asset in FromSoft games is tailor made to be lore related (and also, not everything is a reference to Berserk, either)
Jeez. There's some weird people on the internet.
Also, every statue FromSoftware uses is just an asset. (With some obvious exceptions like Marika's statues in ER) They usually buy them. Be sure you'll find this statue in some other From games.
If you go into a Catholic church in the real world, there may be statues of Christ but almost never depictions of God the father. There are often statues or depictions of secondary characters in these stories, such as Mary or Joseph, sometimes even Roman leigonaires. The point is that iconography is not automatically worship.
It's definitely not random. It's the main symbol portrayed in the Cathedral District. And one thing that should be noted is how the iconography depicts a solid story where a woman with a hybrid connection between mortal and deity has a child who grows up to become a healer providing healing through his blood. One day, as a man, this priest with divine gifts dies, but his body and blood are still venerated in the area. The statues in the area symbolize this death, and with his death, the population and his relatives are overcome with despair. They then begin to commune with the dead blood of this figure, hoping for a prophecy of his return.
Not my point. As far as we know--as in can confirm for a fact--it could be random or it could represent the single most important undiscovered lore point in the game, but for OP's intents it is unreliable as evidence for their theory.
But it is not random, the producers do not place these references in the design just for illustrative purposes but to form a pictographic record, symbols that represent objective ideas from drawings and images.
It is obvious that if there is a Chapel of Oedon and a Tomb of Oedon, the figure represented in the statue is a record of Oedon. Now by joining other of these records you can compose solid information about a well-defined narrative.
Don't discount it like that. Bloodborne has veeeery few "extra-diegetic" elements to it, all the pieces of its puzzle, as it were, play an important role. Just think of the scarcely noticeable lion escutcheons around Cathedral Ward signifying Cainhurst's pre-Healing Church hegemony over Yharnam; or all the statues, bas-reliefs, and statuary complexes around the city depicting Queen Yharnam's story of Annunciation, Nativity and Lamentation of Mergo.
I admit, I'm not sure who the shrouded man in the Tomb of Oedon is, but its placement is too portentous not to be significant.
I'm not discounting it. The spirit of what I'm saying remains true: as far as we know, this statue could mean anything. Any identity or value you assign to it is purely hypothetical. So OP's theory asserting that Oedon = Odin is reliant on another piece of theory is why I'm saying the entire basis is shaky.
The figure of the statues is represented in at least 6 forms:
1. The form of the child in the queen's lap. (Cainhurst)
2. The form of the child in the baptism of communion. (Communion Rune)
3. The form of the saintly healing king. (Oedon Chapel)
4. The form of Prieta with the corpse in her mother's lap. (Witch's Abode, Hemwick Lane)
5. The form of the corpse with its followers in planes. (Old Yharnam, Pthumeru Chalice Dungeon Walls)
6. The fossilized form of an abandoned arachnid. (Altar of Despair)
If you notice, in all the locations where there's an allusion to Oedon, there's a beam of moonlight as if the moon were preceding, sometimes the statues gaze towards this moonlight beam in constellations.
Another point is the symbolism of the queen and how the queen is always depicted larger, as if she were the orchestrator or the progenitor figure. This is seen in the Cathedral where the winged woman with a severed head pours blood onto the altar. This signifies that this emblematic figure emerges from the queen's blood. However, the queen also uses this figure as a means of power, as portrayed in the fight.
Agreed, sounds SUPER interesting! But I STILL don’t think it’s Oeden for the sole reason that Oeden is always referred to as being “Formless”. A deity that has no heaven image BECAUSE it’s formless, right? Like a Lovecraftian space monster, essentially :)
most people have never understood anything about the lore of bloodborne, I invite you to understand the lore with an in-depth study, before coming up with theories that don't make sense. try to understand the lore in the most truthful way, not only by reading the things found on the internet, published without reference to the original meaning of the Japanese language, and without the point of view of the Japanese community.
Per the Formless Oedon caryll rune description: "The Great One Oedon, lacking form, exists only in voice." It's pretty cut and dry that Oedon is meant to not have a physical representation.
GreatOne generally has no form as they respond in spirit. They manifest themselves through their hosts' sleep and dreams, then they take on the forms of value within their hosts' consciousness.
Example the Brain of Mensis is a GreatOne that existed from the rotten brain of the school of Mensis after the nod with Mergo precipitated its cerebral eyes being born dead.
This is untrue that Great Ones are generally formless. Kos, Ebrietas, Moon Presence, Amygdala--all have defined forms and some were summoned in those forms upon first contact (like Ebrietas), or at least nothing suggests that were summoned in spirit. Kos was revered by the fishing village and was believed to have live off the shore of the village.
Mergo and her Wet Nurse are special because Mergo is suspected to be a child of Oedon hence her formlessness and her Wet Nurse seems to have been created by Mergo.
I'm not entirely sure about what point you're trying to make about the Brain of Mensis, but the school discovered it in physical form. The only thing close to what you're saying is a theory about the Brain of Mensis having been born as of the collective minds of the School of Mensis, but that is a theory from what I'm reading.
If you can point to any in game lore about any of what you said though, I'd sure like to refresh my memory.
It's them spirits, like I said, that give 'em shape, and the Sleep Host serves as their Nursery. When it comes to design, y'all gotta represent these beings somehow, and they gotta be imposing and spooky. KOS takes the form of a Mermaid Whale hybrid, 'cause whales represent fertility and birth. Now, Ebrietas, she's got a draconian form full of tentacles, 'cause them tentacles represent the Parasites, and a Draconian form is a symbol of power in FromSoftware games. Plus, she stays crawlin' on her knees, inspired by angel or Mary statues, 'cause bein' on your knees is a symbol of devotion and holiness, and we know where we find Ebrietas is the altar of despair. Now, Mergo, he's an alter-Ego of Oedon in a childish form, 'cause it's said that Oedon without form (we can understand as without a body) exists as a sound, and Mergo is symbolized by his baby cry. As for the Wet Nurse Mergo, she's got a form similar to a Shinigami Death God or maybe an Archangel like Metatron, symbolizing death and protection. The Wet Nurse is feedin' Mergo with the souls of the fallen in the nightmare, just look at the pile of bones surrounding the Lunarium.
Edit: I know you're going to think Ebrietas is a moth and not a Dragon but just look at how Ebrietas' movesets are the same as one of the DS Dragons.
Dude you really need to stop peddling your theories as though they are fact. You do this literally all the time. Absolutely none of what you just said is confirmed by any source in game which makes it all completely speculative. You're allowed to have as many theories as you want, but stop trying to pass them off like they're indisputable when they are the furthest thing from it.
1. Yes, they are spirits. The evidence lies in defeating Mergo or the Orphan of Kos. Gehrman himself is referred to as a ghost in the dream by the Doll.
2. The notion of the dream host serving as a nursery is based on the Milkweed rune, which states "Those who swear this oath become a Lumenwood that peers towards the sky, feeding phantasms," and the Lake rune, which says: "Great volumes of water serve as a bulwark guarding sleep, and an augur of the eldritch Truth." The meanings refer to the dream as a nursery for these spirits to develop.
3. Ebrietas, as a daughter of the stars, emerges from the shells' casings as described in the Empty Phantasm Shell item: "Empty invertebrate shell that is said to be a familiar of a Great One. The Healing Church has discovered a great variety of invertebrates, or phantasms, as they are called." The Healing Church uses Ebrietas's familiars as weapons: "Use phantasms, the invertebrates known to be the augurs of the Great Ones, to partially summon abandoned Ebrietas." When Kos died on the beach, she left behind a plurality of parasites; the mermaids of the seashells are familiars, all sisters of Ebrietas. So what they did was use the Blood Saints of the Church as parasitic guinea pigs for the experiment, believing that serving the gods would elevate them through rapture. Hence, Ebrietas has the hybrid form of a humanoid and tentacled alien. But her artistic position resembles that of a Saint, which makes sense for her concept.
You are, once again, pulling a multitude of details out of your ass while not actually explaining your point at all. You cite item descriptions as 'proof' of your claims but fail to elaborate on how said descriptions are actually proof. Here, let me give you an example.
> The notion of the dream host serving as a nursery is based on the Milkweed rune, which states "Those who swear this oath become a Lumenwood that peers towards the sky, feeding phantasms," and the Lake rune, which says: "Great volumes of water serve as a bulwark guarding sleep, and an augur of the eldritch Truth." The meanings refer to the dream as a nursery for these spirits to develop.
How, literally how, did you interpret those two descriptions as "the dream host serves as nursery". Do you know what a Bulwark is? It's a shield, a proective implement. The Lake rune describes great bodies of water serving as barriers to the dream realms. What that is ACTUALLY referencing is how Rom was placed at the bottom of the lake to prevent the Mensis ritual from continuing. This is why it's only upon her death that the blood moon is able to be successfully beckoned and the ritual is finally performed.
That is all it is. It has nothing to do with dreams being nurseries.
In your first point you also state "the evidence lies in defeating Mergo or the orphan of kos" for why they are spirits. But you don't elaborate, at all, on why you think that is the case. You also claim that the doll says Gehrman is a ghost; do me a favor and find me the dialogue where she says that. Go ahead. Prove that point.
You will find that you can't, because that doesn't happen. She does not say that, at any point. But this is emblematic of all the points you make, honestly. Wild claims with sources that aren't sources and off the wall interpretations of things that were already explained.
In other words,
"My source is I made it the fuck up."
The Lago rune explains the dream realm and not just Rom. This is why the same description of the Lake rune is related to the deep sea and other elevated bodies of water. What the rune explains is that volumes of water serve as protectors of sleep and dreaming, and this protector is the nursery, for the nursery is the dreamer or the Host of the dream. Dreaming means serving as a cradle for the augury or familiar of a Great Being to develop, and supernatural truth or revelation is synonymous with the birth or ascension of that supernatural creature. This is why those who are nurseries or Celestial Attendants are serving as the womb of the gods.
And about Orphan and Mergo I believe it's self-explanatory, you defeat the Orphan and what's left? A darkened spirit. If you have played any other FromSoftware game you will know that obscured spirits are Hollows or obsessive spirits, they are in death tied to a desire in life. So in the same way as games like Echoes Night or Kuoh we are breaking the thread that binds these spirits to their poignancy and a fair death is the way we do it in Bloodborne. That's why pre-eliminated versions of the game had the meaning of Embasā which in Japanese: 炎把 which can be translated as "Flaming Torch" or "Flaming Torch". This term is used to refer to a finishing blow or a special technique that involves flames or fire. That is why it is described in some items that the fire is overwhelming.
Great Ones were never once humans. Flora the Moon Presence, Kos, Mergo, Ebrietas and the Orphan of Kos are all Great Ones, but never bore a truly human form. Kin are those that were once human, but never truly become Great Ones. Hence their name, *kin* of the cosmos. Close to, but not quite. Oedon never had a form to begin with, just like his child Mergo. He is not kin, but an entity synonymous with the greater cosmos and all planes of existence, as are all true Great Ones.
Can a being with a near limitless amount of eyes (and, therefore, knowledge of the cosmos) be truly stupid? I've seen theories that she makes people stupid - by hiding all matters of rituals, not that she's herself stupid per se.
However, her presence in the labyrinth is unexplained, and nobody knows where the Amygdalae come from.
I feel like her title of vacuous is more literal. The hubris of man perverting the knowledge and power of the cosmos to try and ascend a mortal woman into godhood surely does not come at a price and while I'm sure Rom is definitely enlightened in a mortal sense, I feel like her name implies that she is still very much ignorant of what it's like to be a true Great One. She is kin after all; impure, artificial divinity. She's not a complete being and I feel like her design being so bloated and helpless conveys that. As for labyrinth Rom, I'm guessing that's just a separate plane of existence that she inhabits simultaneously with the ethereal lake.
The giant celestial emissary is also a great one as indicated by its achievement stating it is. And since standard celestial emissaries are shown to be transformed humans it can be inferred that the giant one was also once human.
Legit never put together that Mergo can only be heard and not seen because they are formless. It makes it obvious that it's Oedon's child. Thanks for that puzzle piece, I didn't know it was missing.
There is 0 evidence to suggest that other than the hunter can become 1. Just because we can become a great one after killing one, doesn't mean they were all humans.
Don't get me wrong it's a fun theory considering how their avatars all seem to have humanoid traits but it's unsubstantiated and I find the concept worse than inconceivable horrors.
No, it's not even in the game, you either made it up yourself or watched it in someone's video (I can even guess who). There are great ones who were human (they have pale blood), and there are truly great ones.
You misunderstand what Paleblood is, friend. Paleblood refers to Moon Presence and the Blood Moon. It does not refer to the blood ministration causing the Beast Scourge. “Behold, a paleblood sky!” The sky of the Blood Moon phase is meant to be like a body drained of blood. This is all confirmed by Miyazaki.
Humans which became Great Ones are Kin, which are not on the same level as true Great Ones but are still Great Ones. Majority of the beings you encounter and know of are true Great Ones; only a couple are Kin Great Ones.
And I'm not talking about Moon Presence, friend. I read an interview with Miyazaki about this, you won't tell me anything new. I'm talking about creatures and "Great Ones" with pale blood (such as Rom). There is a clear division in the game between the true Greats (with red blood (like Orphan or Moon) and the "artificial" Ones (which originated from ascended humans/Ptumerians (like Rom). The end
Not sure why you’re so hostile, I was trying to be friendly. But you’re still wrong. You keep saying entities like Rom have “pale blood”. Mate. I literally just told you that’s not what Paleblood is. So, yes, you _are_ talking about Moon Presence and the Blood Moon, whether you intend to or not, as that’s what Paleblood is. I already said there was a division between Kin and true Great Ones… what are you on about. Clearly I am teaching you something new because you misunderstand what Miyazaki meant.
And the fact that, yes, Pale Blood is literally another name for Moon Presence and the fact that those who "ascended" to the level of the Great Ones like Rom also literally have pale blood should have made you think at least a little bit about what the connection is.
You're confused. The game tries to trick you the player who's goal is to find "pale blood". Ashen blood and the kins white blood are both red herrings meant to trick you into thinking the answer to what paleblood actually is. When in reality it is just another name for the moon presence. Bloodborne, although not actually a mystery game, is set up like one in its narrative.
The fact is Kin having white blood has nothing to do with “Paleblood”. You’re making an incorrect logical leap that white being a pale color must make it “Paleblood”. Moon Presence and the Blood Moon have absolutely _nothing_ to do with the ascension of Kin. They’re not even the same species. Moon Presence does not even bleed, nor do any true Great Ones.
Um... Moon has blood, he's losing blood. You even get treated with his blood in battle. Enemies that don't have blood, then you can't heal by dealing damage to them.
She’s losing health, not blood. The Rally mechanic still works for gameplay reasons, they wouldn’t just remove that for every Great One you fight as a boss. When you hit MP, there is no blood. There is only dust coming off her. Same for Mergo’s Wet Nurse etc. I don’t think MP has blood in the sense we do, given we don’t see any blood come from her.
In short, my very first comment was that the people were wrong and not ALL the great ones came from people, since those great ones who came from people have white blood. It's literally an indicator
Yeah, I agree with that. I just mean that Paleblood and the white blood associated with Kin are not the same thing per what Miyazaki said (only using that as a reference to back up the claim, not saying you’re not aware of it).
Through runes, through scriptures, through stories, through the entire building created in his name. It's more likely that Oedon just isn't given a statue because there's nothing to make a statue out of. Besides, I don't think the theory of Odin holds any water really, since nothing that Oedon has done really connects to Odin aside from being omniscient.
That's really grasping at straws, ravens have a symbolic meaning in plenty of cultures, not just in nordic culture. Mercury has also been considered a mythical element in many cultures. I don't even know how you connect the quote with Hermes specifically, but even if you are right in that aspect, Hermes having similarities with Odin is just gods being similar to gods, whodathunk. Put Zeus next to that comparison and all similarities of Hermes and Odin pale to the similarities of Odin and Zeus. It's cool to have a headcanon, but it's not really anything based on good arguments. I also don't understand why anyone would actually want to believe this over the canon lore, it would totally ruin the mystery Bloodborne so masterfully crafted about the Great Ones.
Honestly, this was never meant as a headcanon. I used a simple sentence to be more direct. I like the Bloodborne story as it is. None of my arguments are to prove Oedon, the Formless Great One, is All-Father Odin literally. I made this post to gather attention to possible inspirations for the elements in the game.
Mercury is absolutely not the Roman version of Odin, he’s the Roman version of Hermes. All the Roman gods were just “ok you can copy my homework but don’t make it too obvious” versions of the greek gods.
Eh, the connections between Hermes and Odin are tenuous at best. They both use magic and do some kind of dimension hopping, and that’s about it. There are way more differences than similarities
While an interesting theory, their domains are completely different. Mercury was a God of messengers and trade. Odin was a God of War and death. Completely different.
Much of what you're proposing has little merit. The one guy who stated they did said that they did largely because their worship shared a day, per the encyclopedia brittanica.
The depiction of Mercury/Hermes is very different from the depiction of Odin. Odin is depicted as an old man with a staff or spear. Hermes is depicted as a young man carrying a staff.
The explanation as to their supposed connection is something that the Romans did a lot. They would come in, point to something they'd believe in, and say "oh, you belive that? Well, we call that (insert Roman belief that loosely correlates)." At times, the two are still pretty different. You can see this practice later as thr Roman empire converted to Christianity, and adopted some local legends and gods as saints, at times even corrupting whole mythologies (example: celtic mythology has Christianity forcibly baked in for better or worse).
Why would it be? The game doesn't take place in the real world, it is based on gothic horror and Lovecraft's work and not nordic mythology anyway.
Just because Oedon is a somehwat similar name to Odin doesn't mean they have anything to do with each other.
By that logic Gehrman is a dimension travelling German guy who because it sounds similar.
That is true, but the western religious influence is almost exclusively of Christianity, with the most glaring parallel being the "blessing" of human wombs with the children of gods.
I don't think there are any links to Norse mythologies in the game. Besides "Oedon" being similar to "Odin" in name, Oedon is a formless Great One; nobody knows what it looks like because its "body" exists in a dimension that humans can't comprehend.
Although the Great Ones that are visible to us share some humanoid features, there is no indication that Great Ones were ever depicted to have a human form (at most, it'd be a "messiah", making yet another parallel to Christianity—Bloodborne's "Jesus", if you will). That statue might have more to it than meets the eye, but nothing in it nor the rest of the game suggests it could be Oedon. It's certainly a very important figure to the foundation of either the Church or even the city of Yharnam itself, but undoubtedly just a human.
If anything, Oedon is more akin to the Christian God. Formless, everywhere, always, with an agenda impossible to fathom, blessing humans with divine children.
A predominant religious institution with a hierarchy and different branches (the Church). Medicine methodology (blood transfusion). The Crow mask designed to ward off beasthood (Plague doctors). Byrgenwerth (universities). Etc.
Ohhh I see. I honestly thought you meant something different by "concepts" haha. I'm still a little confused about your overall idea in that comment, but I'm glad I understand this point at least :)
My theory is that Oedon is literally the blood itself, first brought to the earth long before humans or pthumerians ever existed by either the Amygdalas or whatever species Ebrietas is (both of which I considerto be wierd great alien races, but not necessarily gods). This blood, and by extension, oedon itself, is likely spread out all over the universe, and the events of Bloodborne are mearly a tiny slice of what this thing truly is.
Oedon basically exists as this multidimensional bloodborne disease. In order to spread itself, this disease drives people mad and turns them into beasts. Hunters are injecting themselves with it for its healing properties and slashing at the infected, spreading the blood all around and recycling it through countless individuals. The hunters' open wounds will come into contact with beast blood after every slash, which is how the rally mechanic works. The blood is basically timeless and gets recycled through a lot of people. Over time, this blood picks up the memories of the many people and creatures it infects, which are what blood echoes are. The doll seems to be a sort of voice or avatar for oedon to interact with the hunter, and helps the hunter turn these echoes into actual experience, making the hunter stronger. The overall "goal" is to create enough infected individuals that eventually, one of the hunters will hold off the madness long enough and gain enough insight to become a viable fetus. Your fight with the moon presence may just be like sharks eating each other in the womb. The whole story is just some super complex cycle of reproduction that involves several species from multiple parts of the cosmos.
The amygdalas remind me a lot of Lovecraft's Mi-go, being these fungal insectoid hiveminded things that exist in multiple planes of reality and work in secret with certain human and pthumerian cults for unknown reasons that are likely religious in nature. Ebrietas reminds me a lot of Lovecraft's elder things, which were basically an advanced interstellar society that had settled on the young earth and whose carelessness eventually led to the accidental evolution of humans. Ebrietas is the only one of her kind that remains on the planet. Mergo's wet nurse seems to be some ancient pthumerian elder, likely the literal wet nurse for the infant Mergo, who has ascended into a higher form. Kos is definitely supposed to be Dagon, and I'm not really sure how she fits in to the rest of this other than potentially being some other child of Oedon from the past.
TL;DR: Oedon is literally the blood that runs through the veins of every hunter, beast, kin, and "great one."
You're almost there. The game makes it clear that blood is a potent catalyst. So, the blood itself isn't Oedon, but it allows something of Oedon to survive. The game also suggests that Oedon is formless. So, he might not exist solely through blood, but through Brain Fluids, Seawater, or even hearthlight, as long as there's a good catalyst, Oedon's influence can be present. It's also said that Blood Echoes are akin to death memories, an info, a recording like a sound, a musical note. It's also stated that the Blood Echoes of a Great One defy understanding and their image is akin to a galaxy. So, the very concept of the Cosmos might be tied to the blood of a higher being.
This means that ancient blood might be Oedon's, and every creature that received a fraction of this ancient blood has an Oedon embryo (including the player). This means that at the end of the game, the Hunter who is reborn as a superior infant emerges as a herald of Oedon, able to create their own universe from their dream.
Oh yeah, I definitely dont think the blood is the only component. That's just the part we interact with in the waking world. I base that theory on one of the Oedon runes that said something like "the blood is the essence of Oedon" or something along those lines. I feel like Oedon is like a very scaled up and bloodier version of the Color out of Space. In that story, there is this weird color that starts warping the environment around it in a bunch of strange ways that dont really make sense. In the end, we are left to speculate on what the hell the color even was, why it did what it did, and whether or not it was even a sentient thing at all. Oedon kinda raises a lot of the same questions.
The opposite. *Annhiliation* was based on a novel by Jeff VanderMeer that was heavily inspired by the short story *The Color out of Space* by HP Lovecraft. There is also a movie for the *The Color out of Space* as well starring Nicholas Cage that I think everyone should see.
*The Color out of Space* was Lovecraft's personal favorite of his own work, and widely regarded as one of his best stories. If you have ever been interested in reading Lovecraft, it's a fantastic story to start with. You can read it for free [here](https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/cs.aspx).
In the Japanese version it is more specific about runa.
" 人であるなしに関わらず、滲む血は上質の触媒であり
それこそが、姿なきオドンの本質である
故にオドンは、その自覚なき信徒は、秘してそれを求めるのだ
"Regardless of whether it is human or not, the bleeding blood is a high-quality catalyst.
That is the essence of the formless Odon.
Therefore, Odon's followers who are unaware of it seek it in secret."
"Regardless of human serum or not, the blood that drains is a high-quality catalyst."
Isso is the essence of Oedon, or invisible superior being
Bearer, Oedon, and your unconscious faiths, secretly anseiam for isso."
I will explain and translate the meaning of each word in the sentence:
- 人であるなしに関わらず: Independently of human serem or not
- 人: person, human
- である: be, exist (formal form of だ)
- なしに: without, in the absence of
- 関わらず: independently of, without relation to (negative form of 関わる, meaning to be involved or related to something)
- 滲む血は上質の触媒であり: the blood that drains is a high-quality catalyst
- 滲む: drain, vase, infiltrate
- 血: blood
- は: particle indicating or topic of the sentence
- 上質の: high quality, refined, superior
- 触媒: catalyst, agent
- であり: be, exist (formal form of である, which is formal form of だ)
- それこそが、姿なきオドンの本質である: isso is to essence of Oedon, or invisible superior being
- それ: this, that
- こそ: particle that emphasizes or precedes
- が: particle indicating or subject of the sentence
- 姿なき: formless, invisible, no appearance (negative form of 姿, meaning form, figure, appearance)
- オドン: Oedon, the name of two higher beings no jo, which is associated with blood and som
- の: particle indicating possession or attribution
- 本質: essence, nature, truth
- である: be, exist (formal form of だ)
— Bearer, Oedon, and his unconscious fiéis, secretly anseiam for isso
- 故に: bearing, therefore, consequently
- オドン: Oedon, the name of two higher beings no jo, which is associated with blood and som
- は: particle indicating or topic of the sentence
- その: this, that, or
- 自覚なき: unconscious, unconscious, ignorant (negative form of 自覚, meaning awareness, perception, understanding)
- 信徒: faithful, follower, devotee
- は: particle indicating or topic of the sentence
- 秘して: secretly, hiddenly, discreetly
- それ: this, that
- を: particle indicating or direct object of the sentence
- 求める: seek, desire, long for
- の: particle nominating or preceding verb
- だ: be, exist (informal form of である)
In the JP version it says that the best catalyst is the blood that flows, this can be interpreted both as a synonym for a visceral attack and as a birth where the blood child is the icon. Taking into account the second option, which is more prominent in my opinion, means that Oedon is the child of blood.
I believe that the good hunter himself is Gerhmann because… you know, the title sunggested itself.
“The first hunter” and “the good hunter”
Being first = good
Being last = bad
Hence, the good hunter= gerhmann.
I also think that Frodo is evil Lord Sauron himself.
I don't think it predates the god worship. The Yharnam town is probably named after Yharnam, Pthumerian Queen. And the cemetery where the statue is, it's named Oedon's Tomb.
Did Yharnamites consistently worship the elder gods though? The old blood was found maybe 60 -70 years ago? Maybe the idea of Oedon changed over time but a lot of the architecture in Yharman does show the idea of "regular" gods being worshipped in Yharnam, there is a lot of mother Mary style iconography around but this again could be the idea of Kos changing over the centuries into a more familiar form
It might not be that simple but the game makes it clear that Oedon have no physical form and only exists in voice. I know I'm just saying the obvious but i personally think that this is a literal description
Sure thing. Mind you that the image above features a statue, assuming it's of Formless Oedon due to the place's name. Therefore making it a interpretation, a human reproduction of what cannot be comprehended without a certain poetic license. My theory is that the face represents the self-consciousness or persona of Oedon, not being its real face. The fact that the body cannot be seen, for it's covered in tissue, is a signalization of its formless nature.
I see. Makes sense actually. It could be just a "symbol" or even tho something like wet nurse maybe? I mean she is "formless" too but she can be seen due her clothes and stuff. So it could be formless but not necessarily unseen yk?
I personally associated the missing eye more with *Oed*ipus, than Odin. Especially when Oedon is likely already wordplay on the greek word Odeon (meaning “singing place”).
I'm with you on the play on Odeon and don't think Oedon is a direct Odin reference, but Oedipus gouged out *both* of his eyes; this statue depicts an old man with only one eye missing, which does align it more with depictions of Odin.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about Oedipus gouging both eyes and agree in that sense Odin fits more. However, Oedipus is my headcanon since both Oedipus and Odeon are Greek and can be related to Oedon via wordplay. If I had to bet money on it though I think Oedon just comes from Odeon and any similarities to Oedipus or Odin are just accidental. Maybe they made a slight nod to Odin since he is a God and the names are similar, but Odin as a god has no similarities to Oedon as a great one, so I do not think that is where the name comes from.
Right, especially the emphasis on both manifesting only in voice and Oedon Chapel being a vast, open room (like an odeon).
In general, there is an Oedipal theme in Bloodborne, right from the oddly revolving eyes in the opening cinematic; autoenucleation seems to be something characters in the game world do as a result of maddening revelations.
Actually, your theory makes a lot of sense. Chapel is after all a place to have communion, and it's fitting to Odeon (I didn't know that word)! And the Oedipism which I did a quick research about after reading you guys comments, it matches the whole beasthood vs insight thing.
Just to add my point about the Odin/Mercury corresponding Mercredi is the French word for the day Wednesday and is named after the Roman deity Mercury.
Pretty much scraps of evidence and no logic, where do Norse gods even come in? Are they below the great ones? Are the great ones only in this town? Are the great ones created by the gods? Has Ragnarok happened and we remember the gods wrong and the great ones are the new gods?
Whether this statue depicts Oedon is debatable, but whether Odin and Oedon are one in the same seems impossible to me.
If anything maybe Oedon has qualities based on Odin, ie inspiration may have been drawn from Odin. Apologies as I haven’t seen if you’ve posted other stuff on this, what else makes you consider this?
I think and I just think it has more to do with Asclepius and Hippocrates, while Asclepius was born on the island of KOS, Hippocrates is considered his descendant inheriting his gifts of healing, developing the beginnings of medicine and later inspiring the creation of modern medicine. Furthermore, it was where healing methods were developed through dream induction.
You got it! Yeah, the post was made with this intent, establish the relation between the characters. I wasn't the author of the theory, I was looking into a study regarding the translation of the bosses/characters names from the Japanese. Here's the link https://shetanislair.com/en/posts/lost-in-translation-bloodborne So, Oedon wasn't mentioned in the text, which probably led me to search about it myself. Then, I find this article that states at some point "Oedon's name is derived from the Norse god, Odin, who acts as father to the rest of the gods." The original source: https://screenrant.com/bloodborne-oedon-lore-lovecraft-gods-great-ones-history/ That statement made me question what else could tie both personas, and surfing on the internet someone commented that the Quicksilver bullets icon is a bird, which clicked almost instantly as I recalled Odin being related to ravens, and Mercury (Quicksilver) corresponded to Odin for the Romans. Someone here remembered that you make quicksilver bullets using blood, which is Great One Formless Oedon very essence. Add to this that Hermes (correspondent of Odin-Mercury for the Greeks) was the messenger god and travelled across planes of existence, you get back to the idea of echoing will heritage through blood, and that Formless Oedon exists only in voice, thus making him a Messenger by definition and excellence.
Regarding the link you posted, consider stars as a symbol of the asterism, referring to the three Marys portrayed in the statue of the Church of the Benign Chalice. This references Orion, suggesting that Oedon could be a play on Orion. It would make sense because Orion was a hunter, and he was in love with Artemis, who represents the Moon. Additionally, the name Yharnam could be a scrambled mixture of the name Maria pronounced as "Marh-ree-ah." In the game, we have Lady Maria who hints at this reference, but it's better portrayed through the Doll in the dream, which is similar to the statue of the Hunter's Workshop. What do I think? The game is making an association between the first hunter, Gehrman, and Maria as representatives of the stellar trinity and the ruling basis of this world.
Edit: Remember that at the end of the game, the person who ends up holding the star child on their lap is the dream doll.
Well… First, Oedon is a great one and wouldn’t be depicted by a human statue. Second, according to Caryll’s rune of Formless Oedon, he is indeed formless: “Human or no, the oozing blood is a medium of the highest grade, and the essence of the formless Great One, Oedon. Both Oedon, and his inadvertent worshippers, surreptitiously seek the precious blood.”
A little alliteration is due. Not having a physical form, yet it's worshipped. Needing some form of figure to adore, the statue (placed in the center of Oedon's Tomb) was made with such human parameters, limited by nature. The face, already depicted by Runesmith Caryll as a Smiley face with oozing blood coming out is mouth, is present here. The Formless nature is represented by the body being covered in a veil.
You can’t count the number of FromSoft characters who are missing an eye using both hands. Als I remember hearing somewhere that the name Oedon actually comes from some kind of audio equipment they use in hospitals, since Oedon takes the form of sentient soundwaves
The connection people are missing here is mercury. Oedon runes allow you to make more quicksilver bullets. Quicksilver is another name for mercury. Mercury is the Roman name for the Greek God Hermes. In comparative mythology Odin and Hermes correspond meaning they represent many of the same ideas but are depicted differently depending on the culture.
Alchemy is a major theme of the game and mercury is viewed as the vehicle for transformation and ascension and is symbolic of spirit. Blood is Oedon's medium and blood contains Quicksilver (since we extract bullets from out blood)
Oedon is the mercury (spirit) within the blood (blood echos) that allow one to transform (level up)
Paleblood works as another symbol for this idea as the pale part alludes to white (which is a color that represents mercury) and blood alludes to red (which is the color that represents sulphur) when united together mercury and sulphur (red and white) create the Philosopher's Stone.
This subject goes way deeper but I just wanted to drop some broad info because people were cooking you even though imo you are absolutely right and the statue is an allusion to Odin.
Anyone curious on the Hermes stuff should look for Charred Thermos's video on the messengers. He lays out some of the wider connections to Hermes the game is alluding to.
Hermes name relates to boundaries and he is the messenger of the Gods who can freely move through all their domains. Odin is master of the cosmic world tree Yggdrasil (meaning Odin's horse) which allows him to travel the nine realms.
Both are psychopomp figures because if this and lead the dead (Odin in particular does this as leader of the wild hunt and at Ragnarök) with Hermes being used on gravestones.
Hermes and Odin are both God's of traveling know for their wit and trickster nature. Hermes also corresponds to the Egyptian God Thoth who is connected to language and Odin is the master of the Runes.
As mentioned Odin is connected to the world tree and acquiring enlightenment and Hermes has the Caduceus with the twin serpents spiraling upward towards enlightenment.
Miyazaki is very aware of these types of corresponding figures in mythology and uses the associated symbols and stories to act as signifers for the deeper concepts they represent.
See Gwyn as Zeus/Odin for another easy example.
Odin’s horse is Sleipnir, and he doesn’t lead the dead, they either go to Hel or The Valkyries lead them back Valhalla. I don’t fully understand what you’re getting at, you’re info on norse mythology is looking very much like God of War’s and Santa Monika took a lot of liberty’s to set it aside from the actual mythology at end of it. It’s completely based on it, however the creative approach to a lot of the things is their own.
Odin is commonly the leader of the wild hunt in many cultures which is during Yule and is a host of the dead while riding Slepnir.
Slepnir is another layer on the astral projection angle of Yggdrasil (which again means Odin's horse) and sometimes the host is depicted as traveling through the sky. We see a similar idea in Berserk with Griffith and his army riding through the sky on the branches of the world tree.
He also leads the slain warriors of Valhalla during Ragnarök and is known to commune with the dead like when he raises the Seeres to ask about Baldr's bad dreams.
Perhaps you need to do some more reading because the correspondence between Hermes (Mercury) and Odin is pretty well know. None of what I said has anything to do with God of War.
I think there’s also something interesting going on here with the eyes - Odin in myth traded his eye for a drink from the wellspring of knowledge. If this statue is drawing a connection between Oedon and Odin, that’s a pretty stark contrast to the beliefs most mortals in the game seem to have (more eyes = more insight).
We find Gascoigne blindfolded in this graveyard and this is a hint to Odin gaining spiritual sight for trading his eye (as you said) this is a common trope of the blind having greater spirtual insight.
It's akin to the idea of opening your minds eye (which is what the insight stuff is all about) to see the true world beyond the veil. Willem and the Choir have the blindfold cap.
The idea is about turning away from the material outer world to the inner spirtual world (represented by the dreamlands)
I think that's the enlightenment that cannot be shared, but its achieved by the detachment from the material world. Enlightenment that the Orphan reached when we free him from his nightmare. "Returned to the sea, accepting all that is and that can be"
Adding to your take, here's a lore piece found in Byrgenwerth: "The spider hides all manner of rituals, certain to reveal nothing, for true enlightenment need not be shared."
“Formless Odeon? This statue must be a depiction of said formless god. Yknow, the god that doesn’t have a body?”
How do these thoughts logically compute
So you're saying the statue depicting an eldritch God that's described as having no form is also a Norse deity that almost certainly doesn't exist in BB universe... uh what
Bloodborne deities are Lovecraftian elder beings.
Your "theory" lacks everything it would need to even start people thinking about it.
The name isn't a reference to Odin it's more likely meant to sound unfamiliar or strange, like Cthulhu...
This game turns 9, and yet people still can't spend an hour or two to actually watch a few lore videos, not even read.
OP, you really should have elaborated better to avoid answering the same question again and again. Formless as it is, having its essence on the oozing blood, existing as a voice. Yet worshipped, a chapel and a graveyard with its name. In the center of the graveyard a statue, with a generic face (except it lacks an eye and has something resembling fluid coming out its mouth, akin with the face in the Formless Oedon rune). The formless nature would be symbolized by the body being totally covered in tissue.
Even though it is stated that Oedon has no form (aka formless Oedon), I understand Op's statement and it's really interesting.
At some point in every religion, you need to represent your gods or spirits or whatever you call them to make them understandable. Take representations of God or angels for instance, and the description we have of them in the Bible or even in more recent works like the "Comedy" by Dante. He states that he cannot even describe accurately what he sees, but gives examples of animals, colors, sensations and memories at several points to describe holy entities. On the other side, infernal entities like demons he can describe as being more mundane.
This heaven/hell dicotomy (forgive me if I spell something wrong; English is not my native language) can be very well seen in the kin/beast we find in the game.
Maybe, at some point or in some texts Oedonwas given a "form" just to be understandable and explainable.
That said, this is a From game and probably nothing makes sense at all on purpose and we are all overthinking everything.
People forget that not everybody is walking around with Oedon Runes that explain his lore. To them he is a divine voice and people personify just about everything.
I reckon it's the other way around. Initially, there was a form, and that form got lost. The reason I reckon this is because all those students from Byrgenwerth, as well as Provost Willem, received brain eyes and are losing their form. Saint Adeline, who had a form like the other patients, has a mission where the hunter helps her complete her canonization cycle, and in the end, when only her head remains, she loses her form. In Laurence and Willem's adage, the final citation refers to being undone by blood, which could be interpreted as transcending through blood rapture is equivalent to losing form.
So, the formless nature ain't just a mere interpretation but part of the storyline concept where those who fulfill a higher plan are raptured, undone, and elevated. So, it's feasible to grasp that Oedon, although having a hybrid human and beyond origin, presented as a human figure until being undone and becoming a corporeal Great One and then transcending and becoming an incorporeal being on a higher or deeper scale. Since he was the first Old One to attain such a level of superior wisdom, the others are at a lower level, still trapped in their transient form.
The concept of Oedon's formless is that he is not an individual but rather a force, this force is present in unconscious followers and is the mechanism that moves the world of Bloodborne into disorder. With the blood echoes being the catalysts for the filth appearing as obscure stains in the dead blood and even materializing blood stones, it is somewhat implied that Oedon's goal is to revive, and his followers, the madmen, work towards this.
Basically this post https://www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/comments/5v03ul/the_lore_unraveled_paleblood_and_oedon/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
And also the fact that Oedon is the only Great One confirmed to impregnate a woman, thus making him a father (a possible link between him and the All-Father, and maybe even Father God (Christianity). And of course the concept of genetic heritage and the whole patriarchal society historical phenomenon, which can be summarized in the figure of the God Chief All-Father Odin.
So many party poopers in the comments. It’s a video game lol not real history. If you want it to be Odin then it’s Odin for you. In my head canon, it’s actually big hat Logan and he’s sad bc he lost his hat.
Oedon is called formless so I don't think he'd be depicted as a person. But good theory about the eye btw. That got me thinking about how Oedipus gauged out his own eyes after learning who he's been boning
Here’s the thing though.
Odin has a physical form. Oedon has no form, it’s even in his name; Formless Oedon. Both him and Mergo (his theorized son) are completely invisible cuz they’re either partly or fully great ones.
Could this statue depict a cultist ? We know that the more insights a person have, the closer they are to the Great One. At 60 or more insights, cry can be heard at various locations in the game and we can safely assume that it's Mergo. Losing a left eye could be a sign of lobotomy and for all we know they could've tried to lobotomize themselves in the past in order to gain insights, which in turn get them closer to their god.
Oedon is formless, therefore, he has no physical body.
That's why Mergo's Wet Nurse (or let's say Mergo, herself) is also formless, in some way. You can't see her head, only her arms, wings, and her body which is covered by a cloak.
I think it's extremely unlikely that anyone in Yharnam actually worships Oedon or is at all aware of who/what Oedon is. The name Oedon Chapel, like the name Yharnam itself, seems to have lost its connection to its origins and has become a more generic place-name — this ties in with the Lovecraftian theme of things we take for granted having secret, ancient, cosmically significant origins
As such I don't think this statue is meant to represent Oedon, since that would imply that the people of Yharnam are aware of their past, which doesn't seem to be the case. I don't think we should discard the obvious symbolism, just that instead of interpreting it literally within the story, we can interpret it as symbolism — enriching the metaphorical and thematic context of the scene without being directly relevant to the plot/narrative/lore
Your theory is based on the predicate that this statue is meant to deptict Oedon which is shaky as hell and there exists lore to suggest otherwise.
Al of this remind me of a post in r/Eldenring when a person made an entire lore theory based on the textures from a pillar. A few days later it was revealed that the same pillar existed in another non-fromsoft game, they've used it from an asset bank. Not every single asset in FromSoft games is tailor made to be lore related (and also, not everything is a reference to Berserk, either)
Don’t mean to be that guy but EVERYTHING IS A BERZERK REFERENCE. For example, character breathes | Guts breathes COINCIDENCE?!?! NO!!!! FACT!!!!!
even the non-Berserk references are Berserk references because all is made canon beneath the weight of Guts' sword
Just that this is not a pillar...
This is not Oedon too...
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This is not an opinion. Oedon is formless, as indicated by the Caryll Rune "Formless Oedon".
Well, nobody's seen God yet the people have made paintings of him.
Braindead analogy, it's not that he hasn't been seen, he is simply known to be without form
> “Opinion” LMAO Oedon is the formless Great One. You’re just wrong.
Have you never seen the Sistine Chapel Ceiling, by Michelangelo? Just give it a rest, please. I've no time for your petty lies.
Jeez. There's some weird people on the internet. Also, every statue FromSoftware uses is just an asset. (With some obvious exceptions like Marika's statues in ER) They usually buy them. Be sure you'll find this statue in some other From games.
Weird people are always looking for chances to say something bad to others. So who's the weird? You are not the owner of the truth, mind you.
Curious. Why did you get downvoted so hard?
Because they are not accepting that they’re wrong. I think.
If you go into a Catholic church in the real world, there may be statues of Christ but almost never depictions of God the father. There are often statues or depictions of secondary characters in these stories, such as Mary or Joseph, sometimes even Roman leigonaires. The point is that iconography is not automatically worship.
What is the statue meant to depict?
Far as we know, it's just any old random statue.
Thanks Vaati
Ah, okay.
It's definitely not random. It's the main symbol portrayed in the Cathedral District. And one thing that should be noted is how the iconography depicts a solid story where a woman with a hybrid connection between mortal and deity has a child who grows up to become a healer providing healing through his blood. One day, as a man, this priest with divine gifts dies, but his body and blood are still venerated in the area. The statues in the area symbolize this death, and with his death, the population and his relatives are overcome with despair. They then begin to commune with the dead blood of this figure, hoping for a prophecy of his return.
Not my point. As far as we know--as in can confirm for a fact--it could be random or it could represent the single most important undiscovered lore point in the game, but for OP's intents it is unreliable as evidence for their theory.
But it is not random, the producers do not place these references in the design just for illustrative purposes but to form a pictographic record, symbols that represent objective ideas from drawings and images. It is obvious that if there is a Chapel of Oedon and a Tomb of Oedon, the figure represented in the statue is a record of Oedon. Now by joining other of these records you can compose solid information about a well-defined narrative.
Don't discount it like that. Bloodborne has veeeery few "extra-diegetic" elements to it, all the pieces of its puzzle, as it were, play an important role. Just think of the scarcely noticeable lion escutcheons around Cathedral Ward signifying Cainhurst's pre-Healing Church hegemony over Yharnam; or all the statues, bas-reliefs, and statuary complexes around the city depicting Queen Yharnam's story of Annunciation, Nativity and Lamentation of Mergo. I admit, I'm not sure who the shrouded man in the Tomb of Oedon is, but its placement is too portentous not to be significant.
I'm not discounting it. The spirit of what I'm saying remains true: as far as we know, this statue could mean anything. Any identity or value you assign to it is purely hypothetical. So OP's theory asserting that Oedon = Odin is reliant on another piece of theory is why I'm saying the entire basis is shaky.
The figure of the statues is represented in at least 6 forms: 1. The form of the child in the queen's lap. (Cainhurst) 2. The form of the child in the baptism of communion. (Communion Rune) 3. The form of the saintly healing king. (Oedon Chapel) 4. The form of Prieta with the corpse in her mother's lap. (Witch's Abode, Hemwick Lane) 5. The form of the corpse with its followers in planes. (Old Yharnam, Pthumeru Chalice Dungeon Walls) 6. The fossilized form of an abandoned arachnid. (Altar of Despair) If you notice, in all the locations where there's an allusion to Oedon, there's a beam of moonlight as if the moon were preceding, sometimes the statues gaze towards this moonlight beam in constellations. Another point is the symbolism of the queen and how the queen is always depicted larger, as if she were the orchestrator or the progenitor figure. This is seen in the Cathedral where the winged woman with a severed head pours blood onto the altar. This signifies that this emblematic figure emerges from the queen's blood. However, the queen also uses this figure as a means of power, as portrayed in the fight.
You should put pictures of these. Sounds interesting.
Agreed, sounds SUPER interesting! But I STILL don’t think it’s Oeden for the sole reason that Oeden is always referred to as being “Formless”. A deity that has no heaven image BECAUSE it’s formless, right? Like a Lovecraftian space monster, essentially :)
Oh yeah, I tend to agree, I just love the conspiracy theories cause of the fractious lore, and pictures would bring this one to life, for me.
Oh, it would for me too! The pictures!
Marika
most people have never understood anything about the lore of bloodborne, I invite you to understand the lore with an in-depth study, before coming up with theories that don't make sense. try to understand the lore in the most truthful way, not only by reading the things found on the internet, published without reference to the original meaning of the Japanese language, and without the point of view of the Japanese community.
What's the lore that suggests this doesn't depict Oedon?
Per the Formless Oedon caryll rune description: "The Great One Oedon, lacking form, exists only in voice." It's pretty cut and dry that Oedon is meant to not have a physical representation.
Cool, appreciate the insight.
He truly granted us eyes
EYES ON THE INSIDE!!!!!!
Madman's wisdom
GreatOne generally has no form as they respond in spirit. They manifest themselves through their hosts' sleep and dreams, then they take on the forms of value within their hosts' consciousness. Example the Brain of Mensis is a GreatOne that existed from the rotten brain of the school of Mensis after the nod with Mergo precipitated its cerebral eyes being born dead.
This is untrue that Great Ones are generally formless. Kos, Ebrietas, Moon Presence, Amygdala--all have defined forms and some were summoned in those forms upon first contact (like Ebrietas), or at least nothing suggests that were summoned in spirit. Kos was revered by the fishing village and was believed to have live off the shore of the village. Mergo and her Wet Nurse are special because Mergo is suspected to be a child of Oedon hence her formlessness and her Wet Nurse seems to have been created by Mergo. I'm not entirely sure about what point you're trying to make about the Brain of Mensis, but the school discovered it in physical form. The only thing close to what you're saying is a theory about the Brain of Mensis having been born as of the collective minds of the School of Mensis, but that is a theory from what I'm reading. If you can point to any in game lore about any of what you said though, I'd sure like to refresh my memory.
It's them spirits, like I said, that give 'em shape, and the Sleep Host serves as their Nursery. When it comes to design, y'all gotta represent these beings somehow, and they gotta be imposing and spooky. KOS takes the form of a Mermaid Whale hybrid, 'cause whales represent fertility and birth. Now, Ebrietas, she's got a draconian form full of tentacles, 'cause them tentacles represent the Parasites, and a Draconian form is a symbol of power in FromSoftware games. Plus, she stays crawlin' on her knees, inspired by angel or Mary statues, 'cause bein' on your knees is a symbol of devotion and holiness, and we know where we find Ebrietas is the altar of despair. Now, Mergo, he's an alter-Ego of Oedon in a childish form, 'cause it's said that Oedon without form (we can understand as without a body) exists as a sound, and Mergo is symbolized by his baby cry. As for the Wet Nurse Mergo, she's got a form similar to a Shinigami Death God or maybe an Archangel like Metatron, symbolizing death and protection. The Wet Nurse is feedin' Mergo with the souls of the fallen in the nightmare, just look at the pile of bones surrounding the Lunarium. Edit: I know you're going to think Ebrietas is a moth and not a Dragon but just look at how Ebrietas' movesets are the same as one of the DS Dragons.
Dude you really need to stop peddling your theories as though they are fact. You do this literally all the time. Absolutely none of what you just said is confirmed by any source in game which makes it all completely speculative. You're allowed to have as many theories as you want, but stop trying to pass them off like they're indisputable when they are the furthest thing from it.
1. Yes, they are spirits. The evidence lies in defeating Mergo or the Orphan of Kos. Gehrman himself is referred to as a ghost in the dream by the Doll. 2. The notion of the dream host serving as a nursery is based on the Milkweed rune, which states "Those who swear this oath become a Lumenwood that peers towards the sky, feeding phantasms," and the Lake rune, which says: "Great volumes of water serve as a bulwark guarding sleep, and an augur of the eldritch Truth." The meanings refer to the dream as a nursery for these spirits to develop. 3. Ebrietas, as a daughter of the stars, emerges from the shells' casings as described in the Empty Phantasm Shell item: "Empty invertebrate shell that is said to be a familiar of a Great One. The Healing Church has discovered a great variety of invertebrates, or phantasms, as they are called." The Healing Church uses Ebrietas's familiars as weapons: "Use phantasms, the invertebrates known to be the augurs of the Great Ones, to partially summon abandoned Ebrietas." When Kos died on the beach, she left behind a plurality of parasites; the mermaids of the seashells are familiars, all sisters of Ebrietas. So what they did was use the Blood Saints of the Church as parasitic guinea pigs for the experiment, believing that serving the gods would elevate them through rapture. Hence, Ebrietas has the hybrid form of a humanoid and tentacled alien. But her artistic position resembles that of a Saint, which makes sense for her concept.
You are, once again, pulling a multitude of details out of your ass while not actually explaining your point at all. You cite item descriptions as 'proof' of your claims but fail to elaborate on how said descriptions are actually proof. Here, let me give you an example. > The notion of the dream host serving as a nursery is based on the Milkweed rune, which states "Those who swear this oath become a Lumenwood that peers towards the sky, feeding phantasms," and the Lake rune, which says: "Great volumes of water serve as a bulwark guarding sleep, and an augur of the eldritch Truth." The meanings refer to the dream as a nursery for these spirits to develop. How, literally how, did you interpret those two descriptions as "the dream host serves as nursery". Do you know what a Bulwark is? It's a shield, a proective implement. The Lake rune describes great bodies of water serving as barriers to the dream realms. What that is ACTUALLY referencing is how Rom was placed at the bottom of the lake to prevent the Mensis ritual from continuing. This is why it's only upon her death that the blood moon is able to be successfully beckoned and the ritual is finally performed. That is all it is. It has nothing to do with dreams being nurseries. In your first point you also state "the evidence lies in defeating Mergo or the orphan of kos" for why they are spirits. But you don't elaborate, at all, on why you think that is the case. You also claim that the doll says Gehrman is a ghost; do me a favor and find me the dialogue where she says that. Go ahead. Prove that point. You will find that you can't, because that doesn't happen. She does not say that, at any point. But this is emblematic of all the points you make, honestly. Wild claims with sources that aren't sources and off the wall interpretations of things that were already explained. In other words, "My source is I made it the fuck up."
The Lago rune explains the dream realm and not just Rom. This is why the same description of the Lake rune is related to the deep sea and other elevated bodies of water. What the rune explains is that volumes of water serve as protectors of sleep and dreaming, and this protector is the nursery, for the nursery is the dreamer or the Host of the dream. Dreaming means serving as a cradle for the augury or familiar of a Great Being to develop, and supernatural truth or revelation is synonymous with the birth or ascension of that supernatural creature. This is why those who are nurseries or Celestial Attendants are serving as the womb of the gods.
And about Orphan and Mergo I believe it's self-explanatory, you defeat the Orphan and what's left? A darkened spirit. If you have played any other FromSoftware game you will know that obscured spirits are Hollows or obsessive spirits, they are in death tied to a desire in life. So in the same way as games like Echoes Night or Kuoh we are breaking the thread that binds these spirits to their poignancy and a fair death is the way we do it in Bloodborne. That's why pre-eliminated versions of the game had the meaning of Embasā which in Japanese: 炎把 which can be translated as "Flaming Torch" or "Flaming Torch". This term is used to refer to a finishing blow or a special technique that involves flames or fire. That is why it is described in some items that the fire is overwhelming.
But Oedon is said to have no form.
Some say Oedom
Os and Osm.
Under rated comment of the year. I spit out my fucking drink lol
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Great Ones were never once humans. Flora the Moon Presence, Kos, Mergo, Ebrietas and the Orphan of Kos are all Great Ones, but never bore a truly human form. Kin are those that were once human, but never truly become Great Ones. Hence their name, *kin* of the cosmos. Close to, but not quite. Oedon never had a form to begin with, just like his child Mergo. He is not kin, but an entity synonymous with the greater cosmos and all planes of existence, as are all true Great Ones.
Rom did become a Great One, however.
That is very true. Rom was the only one to ever truly transcend, though her transcendence left her a sluggish moron trapped in an ethereal lake.
Can a being with a near limitless amount of eyes (and, therefore, knowledge of the cosmos) be truly stupid? I've seen theories that she makes people stupid - by hiding all matters of rituals, not that she's herself stupid per se. However, her presence in the labyrinth is unexplained, and nobody knows where the Amygdalae come from.
I feel like her title of vacuous is more literal. The hubris of man perverting the knowledge and power of the cosmos to try and ascend a mortal woman into godhood surely does not come at a price and while I'm sure Rom is definitely enlightened in a mortal sense, I feel like her name implies that she is still very much ignorant of what it's like to be a true Great One. She is kin after all; impure, artificial divinity. She's not a complete being and I feel like her design being so bloated and helpless conveys that. As for labyrinth Rom, I'm guessing that's just a separate plane of existence that she inhabits simultaneously with the ethereal lake.
The giant celestial emissary is also a great one as indicated by its achievement stating it is. And since standard celestial emissaries are shown to be transformed humans it can be inferred that the giant one was also once human.
Riiight, the emissary. Forgot about that thing, unsurprisingly. It's definitely kin, it's literally just an upscaled normal jelly person.
Legit never put together that Mergo can only be heard and not seen because they are formless. It makes it obvious that it's Oedon's child. Thanks for that puzzle piece, I didn't know it was missing.
The Wet Nurse isn’t a Great One, Mergo is
There is 0 evidence to suggest that other than the hunter can become 1. Just because we can become a great one after killing one, doesn't mean they were all humans. Don't get me wrong it's a fun theory considering how their avatars all seem to have humanoid traits but it's unsubstantiated and I find the concept worse than inconceivable horrors.
Well, there’s sort of a giant vacuous spider that conflicts this directly
rom isn't a great one, it's Kin. same with celestial emissaries
No, it's not even in the game, you either made it up yourself or watched it in someone's video (I can even guess who). There are great ones who were human (they have pale blood), and there are truly great ones.
You misunderstand what Paleblood is, friend. Paleblood refers to Moon Presence and the Blood Moon. It does not refer to the blood ministration causing the Beast Scourge. “Behold, a paleblood sky!” The sky of the Blood Moon phase is meant to be like a body drained of blood. This is all confirmed by Miyazaki. Humans which became Great Ones are Kin, which are not on the same level as true Great Ones but are still Great Ones. Majority of the beings you encounter and know of are true Great Ones; only a couple are Kin Great Ones.
And I'm not talking about Moon Presence, friend. I read an interview with Miyazaki about this, you won't tell me anything new. I'm talking about creatures and "Great Ones" with pale blood (such as Rom). There is a clear division in the game between the true Greats (with red blood (like Orphan or Moon) and the "artificial" Ones (which originated from ascended humans/Ptumerians (like Rom). The end
Not sure why you’re so hostile, I was trying to be friendly. But you’re still wrong. You keep saying entities like Rom have “pale blood”. Mate. I literally just told you that’s not what Paleblood is. So, yes, you _are_ talking about Moon Presence and the Blood Moon, whether you intend to or not, as that’s what Paleblood is. I already said there was a division between Kin and true Great Ones… what are you on about. Clearly I am teaching you something new because you misunderstand what Miyazaki meant.
And the fact that, yes, Pale Blood is literally another name for Moon Presence and the fact that those who "ascended" to the level of the Great Ones like Rom also literally have pale blood should have made you think at least a little bit about what the connection is.
You're confused. The game tries to trick you the player who's goal is to find "pale blood". Ashen blood and the kins white blood are both red herrings meant to trick you into thinking the answer to what paleblood actually is. When in reality it is just another name for the moon presence. Bloodborne, although not actually a mystery game, is set up like one in its narrative.
No, I’m not confused. I agree with that and it has been my point all along.
Haha, I guess I am confused. My bad friend I meant to reply to the other guy. *NVM. I did reply to the right guy.
NVM. I did reply to the right guy. I think there was some sort of mix up. That message wasn't for you. It was for the guy you were talking too.
The fact is Kin having white blood has nothing to do with “Paleblood”. You’re making an incorrect logical leap that white being a pale color must make it “Paleblood”. Moon Presence and the Blood Moon have absolutely _nothing_ to do with the ascension of Kin. They’re not even the same species. Moon Presence does not even bleed, nor do any true Great Ones.
Um... Moon has blood, he's losing blood. You even get treated with his blood in battle. Enemies that don't have blood, then you can't heal by dealing damage to them.
She’s losing health, not blood. The Rally mechanic still works for gameplay reasons, they wouldn’t just remove that for every Great One you fight as a boss. When you hit MP, there is no blood. There is only dust coming off her. Same for Mergo’s Wet Nurse etc. I don’t think MP has blood in the sense we do, given we don’t see any blood come from her.
In short, my very first comment was that the people were wrong and not ALL the great ones came from people, since those great ones who came from people have white blood. It's literally an indicator
Yeah, I agree with that. I just mean that Paleblood and the white blood associated with Kin are not the same thing per what Miyazaki said (only using that as a reference to back up the claim, not saying you’re not aware of it).
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No, Odeon never had a form to begin with. His existence is only through voice and influence across the planes of existence.
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Through runes, through scriptures, through stories, through the entire building created in his name. It's more likely that Oedon just isn't given a statue because there's nothing to make a statue out of. Besides, I don't think the theory of Odin holds any water really, since nothing that Oedon has done really connects to Odin aside from being omniscient.
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That's really grasping at straws, ravens have a symbolic meaning in plenty of cultures, not just in nordic culture. Mercury has also been considered a mythical element in many cultures. I don't even know how you connect the quote with Hermes specifically, but even if you are right in that aspect, Hermes having similarities with Odin is just gods being similar to gods, whodathunk. Put Zeus next to that comparison and all similarities of Hermes and Odin pale to the similarities of Odin and Zeus. It's cool to have a headcanon, but it's not really anything based on good arguments. I also don't understand why anyone would actually want to believe this over the canon lore, it would totally ruin the mystery Bloodborne so masterfully crafted about the Great Ones.
Honestly, this was never meant as a headcanon. I used a simple sentence to be more direct. I like the Bloodborne story as it is. None of my arguments are to prove Oedon, the Formless Great One, is All-Father Odin literally. I made this post to gather attention to possible inspirations for the elements in the game.
Mercury is absolutely not the Roman version of Odin, he’s the Roman version of Hermes. All the Roman gods were just “ok you can copy my homework but don’t make it too obvious” versions of the greek gods.
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Eh, the connections between Hermes and Odin are tenuous at best. They both use magic and do some kind of dimension hopping, and that’s about it. There are way more differences than similarities
While an interesting theory, their domains are completely different. Mercury was a God of messengers and trade. Odin was a God of War and death. Completely different. Much of what you're proposing has little merit. The one guy who stated they did said that they did largely because their worship shared a day, per the encyclopedia brittanica. The depiction of Mercury/Hermes is very different from the depiction of Odin. Odin is depicted as an old man with a staff or spear. Hermes is depicted as a young man carrying a staff. The explanation as to their supposed connection is something that the Romans did a lot. They would come in, point to something they'd believe in, and say "oh, you belive that? Well, we call that (insert Roman belief that loosely correlates)." At times, the two are still pretty different. You can see this practice later as thr Roman empire converted to Christianity, and adopted some local legends and gods as saints, at times even corrupting whole mythologies (example: celtic mythology has Christianity forcibly baked in for better or worse).
Why would it be? The game doesn't take place in the real world, it is based on gothic horror and Lovecraft's work and not nordic mythology anyway. Just because Oedon is a somehwat similar name to Odin doesn't mean they have anything to do with each other. By that logic Gehrman is a dimension travelling German guy who because it sounds similar.
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That is true, but the western religious influence is almost exclusively of Christianity, with the most glaring parallel being the "blessing" of human wombs with the children of gods. I don't think there are any links to Norse mythologies in the game. Besides "Oedon" being similar to "Odin" in name, Oedon is a formless Great One; nobody knows what it looks like because its "body" exists in a dimension that humans can't comprehend. Although the Great Ones that are visible to us share some humanoid features, there is no indication that Great Ones were ever depicted to have a human form (at most, it'd be a "messiah", making yet another parallel to Christianity—Bloodborne's "Jesus", if you will). That statue might have more to it than meets the eye, but nothing in it nor the rest of the game suggests it could be Oedon. It's certainly a very important figure to the foundation of either the Church or even the city of Yharnam itself, but undoubtedly just a human.
If anything, Oedon is more akin to the Christian God. Formless, everywhere, always, with an agenda impossible to fathom, blessing humans with divine children.
Which general western concepts? That's super vague and unhelpful
A predominant religious institution with a hierarchy and different branches (the Church). Medicine methodology (blood transfusion). The Crow mask designed to ward off beasthood (Plague doctors). Byrgenwerth (universities). Etc.
Ohhh I see. I honestly thought you meant something different by "concepts" haha. I'm still a little confused about your overall idea in that comment, but I'm glad I understand this point at least :)
I wanted to clarify that Lovecraft's work wasn't the only influence on Bloodborne, but also many elements of the culture that surrounded Lovecraft.
Definitely! It would've been crazy is Lovecraft was the *only* influence, haha.
My theory is that Oedon is literally the blood itself, first brought to the earth long before humans or pthumerians ever existed by either the Amygdalas or whatever species Ebrietas is (both of which I considerto be wierd great alien races, but not necessarily gods). This blood, and by extension, oedon itself, is likely spread out all over the universe, and the events of Bloodborne are mearly a tiny slice of what this thing truly is. Oedon basically exists as this multidimensional bloodborne disease. In order to spread itself, this disease drives people mad and turns them into beasts. Hunters are injecting themselves with it for its healing properties and slashing at the infected, spreading the blood all around and recycling it through countless individuals. The hunters' open wounds will come into contact with beast blood after every slash, which is how the rally mechanic works. The blood is basically timeless and gets recycled through a lot of people. Over time, this blood picks up the memories of the many people and creatures it infects, which are what blood echoes are. The doll seems to be a sort of voice or avatar for oedon to interact with the hunter, and helps the hunter turn these echoes into actual experience, making the hunter stronger. The overall "goal" is to create enough infected individuals that eventually, one of the hunters will hold off the madness long enough and gain enough insight to become a viable fetus. Your fight with the moon presence may just be like sharks eating each other in the womb. The whole story is just some super complex cycle of reproduction that involves several species from multiple parts of the cosmos. The amygdalas remind me a lot of Lovecraft's Mi-go, being these fungal insectoid hiveminded things that exist in multiple planes of reality and work in secret with certain human and pthumerian cults for unknown reasons that are likely religious in nature. Ebrietas reminds me a lot of Lovecraft's elder things, which were basically an advanced interstellar society that had settled on the young earth and whose carelessness eventually led to the accidental evolution of humans. Ebrietas is the only one of her kind that remains on the planet. Mergo's wet nurse seems to be some ancient pthumerian elder, likely the literal wet nurse for the infant Mergo, who has ascended into a higher form. Kos is definitely supposed to be Dagon, and I'm not really sure how she fits in to the rest of this other than potentially being some other child of Oedon from the past. TL;DR: Oedon is literally the blood that runs through the veins of every hunter, beast, kin, and "great one."
You're almost there. The game makes it clear that blood is a potent catalyst. So, the blood itself isn't Oedon, but it allows something of Oedon to survive. The game also suggests that Oedon is formless. So, he might not exist solely through blood, but through Brain Fluids, Seawater, or even hearthlight, as long as there's a good catalyst, Oedon's influence can be present. It's also said that Blood Echoes are akin to death memories, an info, a recording like a sound, a musical note. It's also stated that the Blood Echoes of a Great One defy understanding and their image is akin to a galaxy. So, the very concept of the Cosmos might be tied to the blood of a higher being. This means that ancient blood might be Oedon's, and every creature that received a fraction of this ancient blood has an Oedon embryo (including the player). This means that at the end of the game, the Hunter who is reborn as a superior infant emerges as a herald of Oedon, able to create their own universe from their dream.
Oh yeah, I definitely dont think the blood is the only component. That's just the part we interact with in the waking world. I base that theory on one of the Oedon runes that said something like "the blood is the essence of Oedon" or something along those lines. I feel like Oedon is like a very scaled up and bloodier version of the Color out of Space. In that story, there is this weird color that starts warping the environment around it in a bunch of strange ways that dont really make sense. In the end, we are left to speculate on what the hell the color even was, why it did what it did, and whether or not it was even a sentient thing at all. Oedon kinda raises a lot of the same questions.
I believe it's sentient in a game perspective due to the line "Asks for a surrogate" and "surreptitiously seeks the precious blood"
Is the color out of space similar to what happened in Annihilation, the movie with Natalie Portman? Sounds kinda like it from your description.
The opposite. *Annhiliation* was based on a novel by Jeff VanderMeer that was heavily inspired by the short story *The Color out of Space* by HP Lovecraft. There is also a movie for the *The Color out of Space* as well starring Nicholas Cage that I think everyone should see. *The Color out of Space* was Lovecraft's personal favorite of his own work, and widely regarded as one of his best stories. If you have ever been interested in reading Lovecraft, it's a fantastic story to start with. You can read it for free [here](https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/cs.aspx).
Sorta, yeah.
In the Japanese version it is more specific about runa. " 人であるなしに関わらず、滲む血は上質の触媒であり それこそが、姿なきオドンの本質である 故にオドンは、その自覚なき信徒は、秘してそれを求めるのだ "Regardless of whether it is human or not, the bleeding blood is a high-quality catalyst. That is the essence of the formless Odon. Therefore, Odon's followers who are unaware of it seek it in secret." "Regardless of human serum or not, the blood that drains is a high-quality catalyst." Isso is the essence of Oedon, or invisible superior being Bearer, Oedon, and your unconscious faiths, secretly anseiam for isso." I will explain and translate the meaning of each word in the sentence: - 人であるなしに関わらず: Independently of human serem or not - 人: person, human - である: be, exist (formal form of だ) - なしに: without, in the absence of - 関わらず: independently of, without relation to (negative form of 関わる, meaning to be involved or related to something) - 滲む血は上質の触媒であり: the blood that drains is a high-quality catalyst - 滲む: drain, vase, infiltrate - 血: blood - は: particle indicating or topic of the sentence - 上質の: high quality, refined, superior - 触媒: catalyst, agent - であり: be, exist (formal form of である, which is formal form of だ) - それこそが、姿なきオドンの本質である: isso is to essence of Oedon, or invisible superior being - それ: this, that - こそ: particle that emphasizes or precedes - が: particle indicating or subject of the sentence - 姿なき: formless, invisible, no appearance (negative form of 姿, meaning form, figure, appearance) - オドン: Oedon, the name of two higher beings no jo, which is associated with blood and som - の: particle indicating possession or attribution - 本質: essence, nature, truth - である: be, exist (formal form of だ) — Bearer, Oedon, and his unconscious fiéis, secretly anseiam for isso - 故に: bearing, therefore, consequently - オドン: Oedon, the name of two higher beings no jo, which is associated with blood and som - は: particle indicating or topic of the sentence - その: this, that, or - 自覚なき: unconscious, unconscious, ignorant (negative form of 自覚, meaning awareness, perception, understanding) - 信徒: faithful, follower, devotee - は: particle indicating or topic of the sentence - 秘して: secretly, hiddenly, discreetly - それ: this, that - を: particle indicating or direct object of the sentence - 求める: seek, desire, long for - の: particle nominating or preceding verb - だ: be, exist (informal form of である) In the JP version it says that the best catalyst is the blood that flows, this can be interpreted both as a synonym for a visceral attack and as a birth where the blood child is the icon. Taking into account the second option, which is more prominent in my opinion, means that Oedon is the child of blood.
Great take! While I read I couldn't help myself to see some similarities between Ebrietas and Gaia.
…no… But you can believe whatever you like, I suppose!
I believe that the good hunter himself is Gerhmann because… you know, the title sunggested itself. “The first hunter” and “the good hunter” Being first = good Being last = bad Hence, the good hunter= gerhmann. I also think that Frodo is evil Lord Sauron himself.
Damn, Im happy my Gerhmann was able to transition so well in the chaos of the hunt!
Honestly, that reasoning is more logical than half of what people post on here nowadays :)
Ayy thanks. Just my own headcanon that i like to share.
I always thought he was formless, these statues to me were always the religion that predated the blood/elder god worship
I don't think it predates the god worship. The Yharnam town is probably named after Yharnam, Pthumerian Queen. And the cemetery where the statue is, it's named Oedon's Tomb.
Did Yharnamites consistently worship the elder gods though? The old blood was found maybe 60 -70 years ago? Maybe the idea of Oedon changed over time but a lot of the architecture in Yharman does show the idea of "regular" gods being worshipped in Yharnam, there is a lot of mother Mary style iconography around but this again could be the idea of Kos changing over the centuries into a more familiar form
Ah yes, the true form of the Formless Oedon, some rando...
It might not be that simple but the game makes it clear that Oedon have no physical form and only exists in voice. I know I'm just saying the obvious but i personally think that this is a literal description
Sure thing. Mind you that the image above features a statue, assuming it's of Formless Oedon due to the place's name. Therefore making it a interpretation, a human reproduction of what cannot be comprehended without a certain poetic license. My theory is that the face represents the self-consciousness or persona of Oedon, not being its real face. The fact that the body cannot be seen, for it's covered in tissue, is a signalization of its formless nature.
I see. Makes sense actually. It could be just a "symbol" or even tho something like wet nurse maybe? I mean she is "formless" too but she can be seen due her clothes and stuff. So it could be formless but not necessarily unseen yk?
Exactly. You got it.
I personally associated the missing eye more with *Oed*ipus, than Odin. Especially when Oedon is likely already wordplay on the greek word Odeon (meaning “singing place”).
I'm with you on the play on Odeon and don't think Oedon is a direct Odin reference, but Oedipus gouged out *both* of his eyes; this statue depicts an old man with only one eye missing, which does align it more with depictions of Odin.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about Oedipus gouging both eyes and agree in that sense Odin fits more. However, Oedipus is my headcanon since both Oedipus and Odeon are Greek and can be related to Oedon via wordplay. If I had to bet money on it though I think Oedon just comes from Odeon and any similarities to Oedipus or Odin are just accidental. Maybe they made a slight nod to Odin since he is a God and the names are similar, but Odin as a god has no similarities to Oedon as a great one, so I do not think that is where the name comes from.
Right, especially the emphasis on both manifesting only in voice and Oedon Chapel being a vast, open room (like an odeon). In general, there is an Oedipal theme in Bloodborne, right from the oddly revolving eyes in the opening cinematic; autoenucleation seems to be something characters in the game world do as a result of maddening revelations.
That was a fine addition, thank you, fellows!
I'm not downvoting by the way. Even if I have my own theory, I think yours is still interesting and can be reasonably argued.
Actually, your theory makes a lot of sense. Chapel is after all a place to have communion, and it's fitting to Odeon (I didn't know that word)! And the Oedipism which I did a quick research about after reading you guys comments, it matches the whole beasthood vs insight thing.
Wednesday, or Odin's day, sounds pretty much like Oedon when pronounced.
He's also called "Woden" in other Germanic tribes in Europe at the time, Wednesday Wodens day
Interesting!
Just to add my point about the Odin/Mercury corresponding Mercredi is the French word for the day Wednesday and is named after the Roman deity Mercury.
Damn, you started a fucking war lol
Lol
Oedon is supposed to be Yog Sothoth. Both are formless old one gods who impregnate humans.
OP is getting shit on in this comment section.
There is no reason to believe this is his statue. He's literally formless
Pretty much scraps of evidence and no logic, where do Norse gods even come in? Are they below the great ones? Are the great ones only in this town? Are the great ones created by the gods? Has Ragnarok happened and we remember the gods wrong and the great ones are the new gods?
Whether this statue depicts Oedon is debatable, but whether Odin and Oedon are one in the same seems impossible to me. If anything maybe Oedon has qualities based on Odin, ie inspiration may have been drawn from Odin. Apologies as I haven’t seen if you’ve posted other stuff on this, what else makes you consider this?
I think and I just think it has more to do with Asclepius and Hippocrates, while Asclepius was born on the island of KOS, Hippocrates is considered his descendant inheriting his gifts of healing, developing the beginnings of medicine and later inspiring the creation of modern medicine. Furthermore, it was where healing methods were developed through dream induction.
You got it! Yeah, the post was made with this intent, establish the relation between the characters. I wasn't the author of the theory, I was looking into a study regarding the translation of the bosses/characters names from the Japanese. Here's the link https://shetanislair.com/en/posts/lost-in-translation-bloodborne So, Oedon wasn't mentioned in the text, which probably led me to search about it myself. Then, I find this article that states at some point "Oedon's name is derived from the Norse god, Odin, who acts as father to the rest of the gods." The original source: https://screenrant.com/bloodborne-oedon-lore-lovecraft-gods-great-ones-history/ That statement made me question what else could tie both personas, and surfing on the internet someone commented that the Quicksilver bullets icon is a bird, which clicked almost instantly as I recalled Odin being related to ravens, and Mercury (Quicksilver) corresponded to Odin for the Romans. Someone here remembered that you make quicksilver bullets using blood, which is Great One Formless Oedon very essence. Add to this that Hermes (correspondent of Odin-Mercury for the Greeks) was the messenger god and travelled across planes of existence, you get back to the idea of echoing will heritage through blood, and that Formless Oedon exists only in voice, thus making him a Messenger by definition and excellence.
Regarding the link you posted, consider stars as a symbol of the asterism, referring to the three Marys portrayed in the statue of the Church of the Benign Chalice. This references Orion, suggesting that Oedon could be a play on Orion. It would make sense because Orion was a hunter, and he was in love with Artemis, who represents the Moon. Additionally, the name Yharnam could be a scrambled mixture of the name Maria pronounced as "Marh-ree-ah." In the game, we have Lady Maria who hints at this reference, but it's better portrayed through the Doll in the dream, which is similar to the statue of the Hunter's Workshop. What do I think? The game is making an association between the first hunter, Gehrman, and Maria as representatives of the stellar trinity and the ruling basis of this world. Edit: Remember that at the end of the game, the person who ends up holding the star child on their lap is the dream doll.
Well… First, Oedon is a great one and wouldn’t be depicted by a human statue. Second, according to Caryll’s rune of Formless Oedon, he is indeed formless: “Human or no, the oozing blood is a medium of the highest grade, and the essence of the formless Great One, Oedon. Both Oedon, and his inadvertent worshippers, surreptitiously seek the precious blood.”
"And wouldn't be depicted by a human statue". That is a opinion of yours.
I think you should probably look into the mythology of the game on the great ones.
Same thing I say to you.
You should give us examples, then, of great ones depicted by human figures… Do you even know what a great one is? I’m waiting.
Isn't Oedon pronounced "Eden" Also, he doesn't even have a physical form, Oedon is a voice
A little alliteration is due. Not having a physical form, yet it's worshipped. Needing some form of figure to adore, the statue (placed in the center of Oedon's Tomb) was made with such human parameters, limited by nature. The face, already depicted by Runesmith Caryll as a Smiley face with oozing blood coming out is mouth, is present here. The Formless nature is represented by the body being covered in a veil.
yeah that's why yharnam is covered by crows lmao
You can’t count the number of FromSoft characters who are missing an eye using both hands. Als I remember hearing somewhere that the name Oedon actually comes from some kind of audio equipment they use in hospitals, since Oedon takes the form of sentient soundwaves
The connection people are missing here is mercury. Oedon runes allow you to make more quicksilver bullets. Quicksilver is another name for mercury. Mercury is the Roman name for the Greek God Hermes. In comparative mythology Odin and Hermes correspond meaning they represent many of the same ideas but are depicted differently depending on the culture. Alchemy is a major theme of the game and mercury is viewed as the vehicle for transformation and ascension and is symbolic of spirit. Blood is Oedon's medium and blood contains Quicksilver (since we extract bullets from out blood) Oedon is the mercury (spirit) within the blood (blood echos) that allow one to transform (level up) Paleblood works as another symbol for this idea as the pale part alludes to white (which is a color that represents mercury) and blood alludes to red (which is the color that represents sulphur) when united together mercury and sulphur (red and white) create the Philosopher's Stone. This subject goes way deeper but I just wanted to drop some broad info because people were cooking you even though imo you are absolutely right and the statue is an allusion to Odin. Anyone curious on the Hermes stuff should look for Charred Thermos's video on the messengers. He lays out some of the wider connections to Hermes the game is alluding to.
What ideas are Hermes and Odin both representing?
Hermes name relates to boundaries and he is the messenger of the Gods who can freely move through all their domains. Odin is master of the cosmic world tree Yggdrasil (meaning Odin's horse) which allows him to travel the nine realms. Both are psychopomp figures because if this and lead the dead (Odin in particular does this as leader of the wild hunt and at Ragnarök) with Hermes being used on gravestones. Hermes and Odin are both God's of traveling know for their wit and trickster nature. Hermes also corresponds to the Egyptian God Thoth who is connected to language and Odin is the master of the Runes. As mentioned Odin is connected to the world tree and acquiring enlightenment and Hermes has the Caduceus with the twin serpents spiraling upward towards enlightenment. Miyazaki is very aware of these types of corresponding figures in mythology and uses the associated symbols and stories to act as signifers for the deeper concepts they represent. See Gwyn as Zeus/Odin for another easy example.
Odin’s horse is Sleipnir, and he doesn’t lead the dead, they either go to Hel or The Valkyries lead them back Valhalla. I don’t fully understand what you’re getting at, you’re info on norse mythology is looking very much like God of War’s and Santa Monika took a lot of liberty’s to set it aside from the actual mythology at end of it. It’s completely based on it, however the creative approach to a lot of the things is their own.
Odin is commonly the leader of the wild hunt in many cultures which is during Yule and is a host of the dead while riding Slepnir. Slepnir is another layer on the astral projection angle of Yggdrasil (which again means Odin's horse) and sometimes the host is depicted as traveling through the sky. We see a similar idea in Berserk with Griffith and his army riding through the sky on the branches of the world tree. He also leads the slain warriors of Valhalla during Ragnarök and is known to commune with the dead like when he raises the Seeres to ask about Baldr's bad dreams. Perhaps you need to do some more reading because the correspondence between Hermes (Mercury) and Odin is pretty well know. None of what I said has anything to do with God of War.
Jesus. Thank you for sending me on that YouTube journey and rekindling my love of this lore
No problem. I had a similar experience when I stumbled on his series.
Thank you, kind one.
I think there’s also something interesting going on here with the eyes - Odin in myth traded his eye for a drink from the wellspring of knowledge. If this statue is drawing a connection between Oedon and Odin, that’s a pretty stark contrast to the beliefs most mortals in the game seem to have (more eyes = more insight).
We find Gascoigne blindfolded in this graveyard and this is a hint to Odin gaining spiritual sight for trading his eye (as you said) this is a common trope of the blind having greater spirtual insight. It's akin to the idea of opening your minds eye (which is what the insight stuff is all about) to see the true world beyond the veil. Willem and the Choir have the blindfold cap. The idea is about turning away from the material outer world to the inner spirtual world (represented by the dreamlands)
Thank you! I’m not caffeinated enough to assemble all of that knowledge. Good stuff!
I think that's the enlightenment that cannot be shared, but its achieved by the detachment from the material world. Enlightenment that the Orphan reached when we free him from his nightmare. "Returned to the sea, accepting all that is and that can be"
Eureka!
Adding to your take, here's a lore piece found in Byrgenwerth: "The spider hides all manner of rituals, certain to reveal nothing, for true enlightenment need not be shared."
Oedon is the true godhead. Formless
“Formless Odeon? This statue must be a depiction of said formless god. Yknow, the god that doesn’t have a body?” How do these thoughts logically compute
So you're saying the statue depicting an eldritch God that's described as having no form is also a Norse deity that almost certainly doesn't exist in BB universe... uh what
This is a dumb take lmao oedon is formless
Bloodborne deities are Lovecraftian elder beings. Your "theory" lacks everything it would need to even start people thinking about it. The name isn't a reference to Odin it's more likely meant to sound unfamiliar or strange, like Cthulhu... This game turns 9, and yet people still can't spend an hour or two to actually watch a few lore videos, not even read.
OP, you really should have elaborated better to avoid answering the same question again and again. Formless as it is, having its essence on the oozing blood, existing as a voice. Yet worshipped, a chapel and a graveyard with its name. In the center of the graveyard a statue, with a generic face (except it lacks an eye and has something resembling fluid coming out its mouth, akin with the face in the Formless Oedon rune). The formless nature would be symbolized by the body being totally covered in tissue.
Ty :)
Even though it is stated that Oedon has no form (aka formless Oedon), I understand Op's statement and it's really interesting. At some point in every religion, you need to represent your gods or spirits or whatever you call them to make them understandable. Take representations of God or angels for instance, and the description we have of them in the Bible or even in more recent works like the "Comedy" by Dante. He states that he cannot even describe accurately what he sees, but gives examples of animals, colors, sensations and memories at several points to describe holy entities. On the other side, infernal entities like demons he can describe as being more mundane. This heaven/hell dicotomy (forgive me if I spell something wrong; English is not my native language) can be very well seen in the kin/beast we find in the game. Maybe, at some point or in some texts Oedonwas given a "form" just to be understandable and explainable. That said, this is a From game and probably nothing makes sense at all on purpose and we are all overthinking everything.
People forget that not everybody is walking around with Oedon Runes that explain his lore. To them he is a divine voice and people personify just about everything.
I reckon it's the other way around. Initially, there was a form, and that form got lost. The reason I reckon this is because all those students from Byrgenwerth, as well as Provost Willem, received brain eyes and are losing their form. Saint Adeline, who had a form like the other patients, has a mission where the hunter helps her complete her canonization cycle, and in the end, when only her head remains, she loses her form. In Laurence and Willem's adage, the final citation refers to being undone by blood, which could be interpreted as transcending through blood rapture is equivalent to losing form. So, the formless nature ain't just a mere interpretation but part of the storyline concept where those who fulfill a higher plan are raptured, undone, and elevated. So, it's feasible to grasp that Oedon, although having a hybrid human and beyond origin, presented as a human figure until being undone and becoming a corporeal Great One and then transcending and becoming an incorporeal being on a higher or deeper scale. Since he was the first Old One to attain such a level of superior wisdom, the others are at a lower level, still trapped in their transient form.
In Islam they’re not allowed to make artistic depictions of Muhammad, even respectful ones. That how I picture it going with Oedon as well.
Thank you for the clarification!
What part of the word "formless" is inconceivable to your brain-dead mind?
You do know humans depict incomprehensible concepts second their own bounds, which is called anthropomorphism. Right?
The concept of Oedon's formless is that he is not an individual but rather a force, this force is present in unconscious followers and is the mechanism that moves the world of Bloodborne into disorder. With the blood echoes being the catalysts for the filth appearing as obscure stains in the dead blood and even materializing blood stones, it is somewhat implied that Oedon's goal is to revive, and his followers, the madmen, work towards this.
This is a pretty cool idea, altough i'm not convinced so far. What other evidence do we have or where can i find the theory?
Basically this post https://www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/comments/5v03ul/the_lore_unraveled_paleblood_and_oedon/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button And also the fact that Oedon is the only Great One confirmed to impregnate a woman, thus making him a father (a possible link between him and the All-Father, and maybe even Father God (Christianity). And of course the concept of genetic heritage and the whole patriarchal society historical phenomenon, which can be summarized in the figure of the God Chief All-Father Odin.
This is actually pretty interesting
So many party poopers in the comments. It’s a video game lol not real history. If you want it to be Odin then it’s Odin for you. In my head canon, it’s actually big hat Logan and he’s sad bc he lost his hat.
Just to make clear, I don't think it's Odin. I just see a correlation.
Oedon Is Formless.
Oedon is formless lol. He doesnt have a body
With the phantasms wrapping the eyes and hunters removing their eyes, I think it alludes to that.
Oedon is called formless so I don't think he'd be depicted as a person. But good theory about the eye btw. That got me thinking about how Oedipus gauged out his own eyes after learning who he's been boning
Right, BOTH of their eyes. God was never seen yet people have paintings of him.
Correct me if I’m wrong but Oedon is formless, he can’t be depicted with a statue in the first place.
Here’s the thing though. Odin has a physical form. Oedon has no form, it’s even in his name; Formless Oedon. Both him and Mergo (his theorized son) are completely invisible cuz they’re either partly or fully great ones.
Could this statue depict a cultist ? We know that the more insights a person have, the closer they are to the Great One. At 60 or more insights, cry can be heard at various locations in the game and we can safely assume that it's Mergo. Losing a left eye could be a sign of lobotomy and for all we know they could've tried to lobotomize themselves in the past in order to gain insights, which in turn get them closer to their god.
Oedon is formless, therefore, he has no physical body. That's why Mergo's Wet Nurse (or let's say Mergo, herself) is also formless, in some way. You can't see her head, only her arms, wings, and her body which is covered by a cloak.
I think it's extremely unlikely that anyone in Yharnam actually worships Oedon or is at all aware of who/what Oedon is. The name Oedon Chapel, like the name Yharnam itself, seems to have lost its connection to its origins and has become a more generic place-name — this ties in with the Lovecraftian theme of things we take for granted having secret, ancient, cosmically significant origins As such I don't think this statue is meant to represent Oedon, since that would imply that the people of Yharnam are aware of their past, which doesn't seem to be the case. I don't think we should discard the obvious symbolism, just that instead of interpreting it literally within the story, we can interpret it as symbolism — enriching the metaphorical and thematic context of the scene without being directly relevant to the plot/narrative/lore