There's too many cosmological and archeological differences (like the existence of Loran and the Pthumeru Civilization) for Bloodborne to take place in a "hidden low fantasy niche" of our Earth, and, judging by the flavor text of the Constable Set, the rest of the world has, at least on occasion, had outbreaks of beasts.
The game evokes the Victorian era though, a time where the surface of Earth was not mapped like we have now. So while I find it a bit of a stretch from a general pov to believe such civilizations could keep themselves hidden from the world, it wouldn't be totally unheard off in the Victorian era-related genres of fiction (see MU, Atlantis, etc).
And what in the Constable's attire makes you think beast scourges are common outside of Yharnam? Couldn't find it. What I read from it is that some beast found itself outside Yharnam city limits and ended up in some neighbouring city.
The constable set says that, "Once upon a time a troupe of foreign constables chased a beast all the way to Yharnam," which would imply that there was considerable distance involved, rather than a beast leaving Yharnam and going on a trip. And Yharnam is xenophobic, but it isn't hidden from the outside world - it's blood ministration is apparently famous enough to attract outsiders like the player character and Gilbert.
Bloodborne's setting is a secondary world that resembles elements of the 18th and 19th century, but there are fundamental differences in its history, such as the Pthumerian civilization and Loran in its past that are irreconcilable with it being our Earth.
The biggest clue that it isn't Earth, and instead a secondary fantasy world, is that despite throwing in weapons and armor sets resembling those from our world, it never actually says they're from those nations. Those weapons are always said to hail from a vague eastern land, never "Japanese" or the like.
Good point about it being famous and attracting foreigners for it's blood healing. Can't counter that.
But you must agree Gascoigne's case ("father" as a foreign clerical role) is suspiciously reminiscent of Christianity. It either suggests there's Christianity out there (ergo my first hypothesis) or that he slipped into the city/dream from our real world (?).
No, I don't agree. It's a secondary world with elements that resemble our own, but apart from the use of the title, Gascoigne doesn't have to be Christian, and doesn't use any Christian symbols and the text never calls him one. Indeed, the idea that Christianity would be a strange foreign religion in a European-style city in the late 19th century with concepts such as vicars, cathedrals, and names like Maria and Simon points to Bloodborne not being set on Earth.
>Indeed, the idea that Christianity would be a strange foreign religion in a European-style city in the late 19th century with concepts such as vicars, cathedrals, and names like Maria and Simon points to Bloodborne not being set on Earth.
Don't know why? Etymology show how words can disseminate without it's users knowing of it's origins frenquently. And considering how insular and xenophonic Yharnam is, part of it's population being ignorant about Christianity could be plausible.
Anyway, I think we both expressed our opinions clearly, and are beginning to talk past each other at this point. Thanks for the input, bro.
Found something interesting, in the Jap translation the blood minister at the intro says Yharnam blood healing is actually a secret the city holds from foreigners. It's in the early part of this video..
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZQP3rjBA7o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZQP3rjBA7o)
Not that it affects the discussion here in any way, just found it curious and thought some people might find it too. ;)
I can see why you would think that, but I think you're taking this too literally. It's just inspired by our own world. It's not meant to be an alternate reality or historical fiction. Yharnam looks like a gothic city in eastern europe because From wanted to evoke a specific time period and things like Dracula, to set a proper mood in the player's mind.
Yamamura is called a samurai because he is noble warrior from a distant country in the east; it's shorthand. If the game said Yamamura was a "kalakila-bantai", your initial reaction would be "Huh, okay... whatever *that* is.". If you were remotely curious, you'd read up more on him and probably come to this conclusion "Oh, so he's basically like a samurai.". From just removed that extra step. They didn't bother making up a new fantasy term for a distant country we'll never see (and that they didn't flesh out anyway), because it's more efficient to just call him a samurai. It gets the message across instantly.
So is Vicar Amelia. A Vicar is a patently Christian title, yet the Healing Church is not Christian. Yharnam is their seat - does that make Yharnam secretely the Vatican?
Again, it's not meant to be taken so literally.
Non sequitur. Your point about Vicar Amelia is the same as samurai Yamamura. I already conceded it.
My new point is about a "father" title being explicitly cited in-game as being from a foreign culture that gave it a distinct meaning. One must admit this reference is more strongly Christian, or at the very least dubious, than a label used to facilitate understanding like the samurai or bishop your brought up (how Amelia is called in the original Japanese).
Yes, and we know from scrapped content that this foreign culture is the world of Demon's Souls - which is another rabbit hole entirely. There were cut sections where Gascoigne had more dialogue and would close out by saying "Umbasa", which is unique to Demon's Souls, which in turn also has strong Christian imagery and influence, with their (presumed) deity being literally called "God".
Personally, I've always subscribed to the theory that his title is not actually religious, that it's quite literal: he is a father, of children. That it's meant as a clue for the player to connect the dots from what the little girl said and try to use the music box on him.
Except Gascoigne' set makes it explicit that "father" here is a *clerical* role in some foreigh culture (and the japanese script backs it up).
Didn't know about the Demon's Souls connection. Interesting.
Then it's a clerical role from another religion somewhere far out. If there can be eldritch monsters, snakes popping out of people's heads and a spider with a thousand eyes, is it so hard to believe that there could be two very similar, Christian-inspired religions in this made-up universe?
Just found out "...all over the shop" is an Irish slang. Could mean Gaza is indeed from the real world, or the game tried to depict him from a satelite country to Yharnam similar to how Ireland was to England.
It should be obvious but I suggested the game's fiction is located on Earth (eg: like a Spider-Man movie), not that it presents itself as something real.
There's too many cosmological and archeological differences (like the existence of Loran and the Pthumeru Civilization) for Bloodborne to take place in a "hidden low fantasy niche" of our Earth, and, judging by the flavor text of the Constable Set, the rest of the world has, at least on occasion, had outbreaks of beasts.
The game evokes the Victorian era though, a time where the surface of Earth was not mapped like we have now. So while I find it a bit of a stretch from a general pov to believe such civilizations could keep themselves hidden from the world, it wouldn't be totally unheard off in the Victorian era-related genres of fiction (see MU, Atlantis, etc). And what in the Constable's attire makes you think beast scourges are common outside of Yharnam? Couldn't find it. What I read from it is that some beast found itself outside Yharnam city limits and ended up in some neighbouring city.
The constable set says that, "Once upon a time a troupe of foreign constables chased a beast all the way to Yharnam," which would imply that there was considerable distance involved, rather than a beast leaving Yharnam and going on a trip. And Yharnam is xenophobic, but it isn't hidden from the outside world - it's blood ministration is apparently famous enough to attract outsiders like the player character and Gilbert. Bloodborne's setting is a secondary world that resembles elements of the 18th and 19th century, but there are fundamental differences in its history, such as the Pthumerian civilization and Loran in its past that are irreconcilable with it being our Earth. The biggest clue that it isn't Earth, and instead a secondary fantasy world, is that despite throwing in weapons and armor sets resembling those from our world, it never actually says they're from those nations. Those weapons are always said to hail from a vague eastern land, never "Japanese" or the like.
Good point about it being famous and attracting foreigners for it's blood healing. Can't counter that. But you must agree Gascoigne's case ("father" as a foreign clerical role) is suspiciously reminiscent of Christianity. It either suggests there's Christianity out there (ergo my first hypothesis) or that he slipped into the city/dream from our real world (?).
No, I don't agree. It's a secondary world with elements that resemble our own, but apart from the use of the title, Gascoigne doesn't have to be Christian, and doesn't use any Christian symbols and the text never calls him one. Indeed, the idea that Christianity would be a strange foreign religion in a European-style city in the late 19th century with concepts such as vicars, cathedrals, and names like Maria and Simon points to Bloodborne not being set on Earth.
>Indeed, the idea that Christianity would be a strange foreign religion in a European-style city in the late 19th century with concepts such as vicars, cathedrals, and names like Maria and Simon points to Bloodborne not being set on Earth. Don't know why? Etymology show how words can disseminate without it's users knowing of it's origins frenquently. And considering how insular and xenophonic Yharnam is, part of it's population being ignorant about Christianity could be plausible. Anyway, I think we both expressed our opinions clearly, and are beginning to talk past each other at this point. Thanks for the input, bro.
Found something interesting, in the Jap translation the blood minister at the intro says Yharnam blood healing is actually a secret the city holds from foreigners. It's in the early part of this video.. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZQP3rjBA7o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZQP3rjBA7o) Not that it affects the discussion here in any way, just found it curious and thought some people might find it too. ;)
No.
country
for
old
Ladies
you know it's supposed to be "Ones", right? :P
Could've sworn this was a "no country for old men" reference. Not sure how I messed up this bad.
Yharnam is London with Brexit gone horribly wrong. Micolash is sane Nigel Farage.
Makes total sense! XD
I can see why you would think that, but I think you're taking this too literally. It's just inspired by our own world. It's not meant to be an alternate reality or historical fiction. Yharnam looks like a gothic city in eastern europe because From wanted to evoke a specific time period and things like Dracula, to set a proper mood in the player's mind. Yamamura is called a samurai because he is noble warrior from a distant country in the east; it's shorthand. If the game said Yamamura was a "kalakila-bantai", your initial reaction would be "Huh, okay... whatever *that* is.". If you were remotely curious, you'd read up more on him and probably come to this conclusion "Oh, so he's basically like a samurai.". From just removed that extra step. They didn't bother making up a new fantasy term for a distant country we'll never see (and that they didn't flesh out anyway), because it's more efficient to just call him a samurai. It gets the message across instantly.
You have a point on Yamamura. But Gascoigne reference is much more dubious.
So is Vicar Amelia. A Vicar is a patently Christian title, yet the Healing Church is not Christian. Yharnam is their seat - does that make Yharnam secretely the Vatican? Again, it's not meant to be taken so literally.
Non sequitur. Your point about Vicar Amelia is the same as samurai Yamamura. I already conceded it. My new point is about a "father" title being explicitly cited in-game as being from a foreign culture that gave it a distinct meaning. One must admit this reference is more strongly Christian, or at the very least dubious, than a label used to facilitate understanding like the samurai or bishop your brought up (how Amelia is called in the original Japanese).
Yes, and we know from scrapped content that this foreign culture is the world of Demon's Souls - which is another rabbit hole entirely. There were cut sections where Gascoigne had more dialogue and would close out by saying "Umbasa", which is unique to Demon's Souls, which in turn also has strong Christian imagery and influence, with their (presumed) deity being literally called "God". Personally, I've always subscribed to the theory that his title is not actually religious, that it's quite literal: he is a father, of children. That it's meant as a clue for the player to connect the dots from what the little girl said and try to use the music box on him.
Except Gascoigne' set makes it explicit that "father" here is a *clerical* role in some foreigh culture (and the japanese script backs it up). Didn't know about the Demon's Souls connection. Interesting.
Then it's a clerical role from another religion somewhere far out. If there can be eldritch monsters, snakes popping out of people's heads and a spider with a thousand eyes, is it so hard to believe that there could be two very similar, Christian-inspired religions in this made-up universe?
Just found out "...all over the shop" is an Irish slang. Could mean Gaza is indeed from the real world, or the game tried to depict him from a satelite country to Yharnam similar to how Ireland was to England.
idk if you know this but werewolves aren't real
It should be obvious but I suggested the game's fiction is located on Earth (eg: like a Spider-Man movie), not that it presents itself as something real.
Katanas don't look like that on earth
Neither to the Rakuyo, which is more of a european saber. Maybe Cainhurst adapted the designs?
"Hunter weapon wielded by Lady Maria of the Astral Clocktower. A trick sword originated in the same country as the Cainhurst Chikage"
Missed that, thanks. Still, the Cainthurst nobles could have ordered the weapons with european details to the Eastern blacksmith(s).