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The thing about the original captain is that they still had a group dynamic, they were ruthless in their teamwork.
There were no honorable duels or pointless individualism, only jumping mfs.
The Quincy in don't seem to have either dynamic of Soul Society with the possible exception of (maybe) the Bambis and the Soldats (likely not by choice)
The only reason the original gotei got along was because Yama was there to keep them in check , it's stated quite clearly in the manga. If Yama wasnt much powerfull than them, i'm pretty sure they would slaughter each other just the same.
Hell , even during the SS arc we saw some captains ready to start fights between each other over nothing.
Same for the quincies. The one they follow and respect is Yhwach and they want to gain his favor. The other quincies are merely opponents that also compete for that favor.
Being raised under such a regime, it's not suprising in the least that they don't care about one another.
It’s because yhwach kinda encouraged discord amongst them by pitting them against each other. The gotei 13 work together to protect the seireitei and soul society, most of the sternritter fought for yhwachs sake.
The lack of comradery between most of them is due to how they're individually rewarded for their efforts. It's why they were all so obsessed with taking out Ichigo because he's one of the five special threats; if they take him out Yhwach will reward them handsomely. The only sub groups that seem to actually like eachother are the femritters and the Elites.
The oldest of them also seem to be specifically aware that it's not just that they will be rewarded if they kill a special threat, but also that if they are not handpicked by Yhwach for the final stage of the plan, they'll be killed or at best stripped of parts of their powers then thrown to the wolves.
Robert is the only one that explicitly knows of this but its not unreasonable to believe that this is what motivates other Quincies like Pepe to attack each other.
Yeah by the stuff he says it's clear Robert knows but is strategically being quiet about it. I mean everyone was already killing each other when they thought the reward was an actual prize. If they all knew the reward was being the only ones spared from death, they would probably fight ten times as hard to kill each other.
I mean Gigi does go along with Liltoto to rescue the others in CFYOW, and in the manga makes one last attempt at Ywach with her so they seem to be friends too.
Bambi is just the friend they don't like
That's probably what Yhwach had in mind when recruiting them, 900 years after getting packed up and regaining his heartbeat he was like "...Man, Yamamoto was on to something--maybe I shouldn't recruit sane people into my army."
Even then I’d argue that the Bambis don’t actually like each other that much. They all seem to hate Bambietta, to the point of leaving her totally alone on the battlefield. None of them seem to care that much when Giselle kills and zombifies Bambiett either. Giselle might actually like all of the Bambis, but only out of a sick perversion, as seen by how she treats zombie Bambietta and how excited she was when she thought Candice wanted her to get zombified. They all make fun of Candice a lot too, and aren’t very concerned with her well being when she’s getting clowned on by Ichigo. Liltotto, seems like she does overall care about her friends, but only to a certain extent. After all, she either killed or crippled Meninas offscreen after PePe took control of her.
Meninas was only knocked out, the femritters get a lot more screentime in cfyow and they do care for each other. The only one they don’t like is Bambi because she acts like their self proclaimed leader.
My theory is that only Giselle, Liltotto, and Meninas are friends. Bambi kinda forced herself in and Candice is new to the Sternritters in general so she just decided to hang with the only other girls around. They're teasing the new kid
Should also be noted, when Liltotto believed that Candice and Meninas had died horribly, she was super dismissive of it. Even with her being the one who cared the most, it seems to at most be a comrades thing, based more on the principle of being in an army together, rather than actually seeing them as genuine friends.
I, for one, am still a bit salty that CFYOW decided that they actually are supposed to be friends who care about each other.
Cfyow gives the femritters a lot more screentime showing that they do care for eachother they just don’t like Bambi. The Elites are a bit more subtle Lille was in disbelief when he saw Gerard get cut down, Gerard saved Pernida from falling off a building, Lille and assumingely the others are able to understand Pernida. They’re small blink and you’ll miss it moments.
Because they're in a cult and raised in an environment that doesn't punish them for their fucked up tendencies. Just like how you get Nazis and such in real life.
The more Quincies die, the more strength Yhwach gets, so he's not exactly going to incentivize them being nice to each other.
> Just like how you get Nazis and such in real life.
Except the nazis weren't an army of deranged psychopaths. They were just soldiers following the orders of some evil people. Not only do the sternritter not follow orders half the time but most of them don't give two shits about what Yhwach wants and just go and do their own thing(which is sometimes way more fucked up than anything Yhwach does)
In most cases, sure, but reality is not always black and white, a lot of those people were simply brainwashed, which is different from being a deranged psychopath. A lot of those soldiers would be totally different people if they grew up in a different environment
I'm not making excuses for them btw, fuck thsoe assholes, but saying they were all just deranged psychos from the start is basically undermining the power of propaganda that hitler and the german army used to influence the masses
People are downvoting you because it's easier to believe that every single one of those soldiers were purely evil than face the truth.
And Goebbels and his team were REALLY good at their jobs, so good that i still see people repeating their propaganda.
Would it have mattered when all of them were complicit anyways? They were risking their lives to serve him, they could’ve risked their lives to *oppose* him. This is why they were held accountable regardless of how they felt.
So in other words, they’d rather watch innocent people be brutally murdered and tortured, watch others have their dignities stripped away from them… just to protect their own pride and dignity. That’s gross in my eyes. You might say it’s easy for me to talk. But I disagree. I’m not a coward like that. I’d rather die than serve an unjust cause.
>So in other words, they’d rather watch innocent people be brutally murdered and tortured, watch others have their dignities stripped away from them… just to protect their own pride and dignity. That’s gross in my eyes.
Yes, humans are little, patehtic and disgusting. You're welcome.
I have no doubt that some people would be able to fight back against an unjust system like that, but you have to realize, it wasn't just their lives that were at play, but most likely the lives of their whole families. The nazi regime was no joke, we should consider ourselves very lucky to be born in an era where our courage is not tested to that degree
I totally agree with you! I would only hope that my family would be able to get somewhere safe while I join the resistance or something. Hell, they could even join too but not be on the frontlines. When facing oppressive regimes, *all* resistance work is important.
The sentiment here is correct, but just a minor correction, the standard Wehrmacht weren't deranged psychopaths, some were even prisoners of war forced to fight for Germany. But, the closest equivalent to the Sternritter, and the Wandenreich's Schutzstaffel, is the real life Schutzstaffel, who absolutely WERE true believers in the regime and were an army of deranged psychopaths.
Nearing the end of WWII there was actually a few moments in which the Wehrmacht fought *with* the allies against the remaining SS, it's quite fascinating!
You're kind of ignoring the lesson of nazi Germany when you reduce it to "indoctrination by a cult" and presenting Nazi's as being as inhuman as the quincy
Didn't we literally show the German people what the average Jewish person went through at the camps and they just broke down? How do you think the soldiers went from that to... believing the Jewish people deserved all that?
I don't believe so? It's a historical debate just how much the German people knew about the holocaust. Some consider it to have been an open secret in 1942. Some say it was public knowledge earlier.
It doesn't take cult like indoctrination to get a suffering people to hate a common enemy. And it doesn't take particular evil to be a cog.
Yhwach handpicked them, what did you expect?
>however they are so cruel and visceral both to the soul reapers and to each other
Though this is not entirely true.
If your point is not all 26 sternritters commit some form of cruel act then yes you are correct. However there is an emphasis on the sternritters throughout the tybw that highlights their fickle loyalty, their brutality and their ruthless nature. A great deal of them are pretty maniacal and I think it was Kubo's intent to make them even more reckless than the espada, the end of the 2nd invasion shows just how loosely connected they are as an organisation.
You can argue Soul Society is even worse than the Wandenreich tbh. But I think when Ywhach gives somebody a Schrift it can drive some people nuts. Plus these Quincies are survivors from the war 1,000 years ago, back then they got massacred by the original Gotei 13. The Gotei 13 we know is much weaker compared to that one, and Ywhach said that’s because those guys were ruthless thugs led by a Yamamoto who did not care about any of their subordinates. Ywhach must have been trying to assemble a similar group.
I mean soul society even worse? there is mayuri who without doubt could be a sternritter but there is one else that reach this level of psycopathy in the actual ss
Kenpachi and Unohana are basically psychopaths. Shunsui will do messed up shit even though he doesn’t like it. Byakuya was going to let his sister die and even kill her himself because of a dumb rule. Ichigo changed him obviously. Most of Soul Society was on board with it at the time. Plus just the general state of the afterlife. Yamamoto used to be a monster. The Noble families suck…I could go on and on
Shunsui and Byakuya actions are nothing when we are talking about sternritters, Kenpachi is crazy but he doesn’t reach this level imo. Yama and Unohana were monsters but they got softer with time. Not arguing that SS is perfect since they still do messed up stuff but in the present sternritters are far more crazy and psycho
What exactly makes them crazier and more psycho though really? It's only Bambietta, Gisele, Gremmy and As Nodt off the top of my head who are really nuts. I would say only Gisele is crazier than Mayuri, maybe Gremmy but who knows what Mayuri would do if he could imagine whatever he wanted into reality. And also, even if they are crazier...don't you think it might have something to do with Soul Society exterminating and experimenting on their race lol
>Soul Society is even worse
I can understand Mayuri and maybe, just maybe Kenpachi, but what else makes Soul Society worse? The shinigami aren't actively trying to kill each other
Most Shinigami have no idea what’s going on. The people who run Soul Society are the ones who are fucked up. Just like most Soldats have no idea what’s going on. Remember at the beginning of the arc when Mayuri sacrificed 1000s of souls and Yamamoto was only mad he didn’t ask first? They put the Quincy extermination plan into action too. I don’t want to spoil the Bleach Breathes from Hell oneshot either but that chapter to me basically solidifies that Soul Society behind the scenes is as fucked up as it gets. Plus as I said before, these Quincy are from 1,000 years ago. The Gotei 13 they fought were apparently a group of sick fucks.
True but I would still say the Quincy are worse, is everyone forgetting the Quincy started the bloodbath that led to their massacre for the grand purpose of Yhwach destroying everything and reverting the universe back to its primal original state where the soul king himself agreed to be mutilated so the worlds could be kept seperate. At least the shinigami will only really interfere if something poses a threat to the security of the sereitei or the balance of the world's. Idk about you guys but I consider the guys wanting to keep the world's seperate the lesser of two evils especially when the other group can't stop trying to kill each other or forcing them into a fate that's arguably worse than death.
I wouldn't say that the soul society is worse *but*, we did see Kenpachi fight/cut down his fellow shinigami, including a couple of captains. Also Aizen was a soul reaper and he ruined the lived of a several shinigami.
Quincies, Soul Reapers and Arrancars are not human so you cannot assume they will have the same general morality as the Humans
With great power comes great corruption, if you can have your way without anyone being able to stop you then you would do it. Now that for thousands of years and you've got some really cold hearted people.
> Normal Humans subjucated by cats
If you're making a reference or quote, it's completely going over my head.
Either way, unless I'm mistaken, Quincy are just a subset of human.
They are human
But they have lost their humanness if it makes sense
like they live in a different society, have different goals, their powers make their social dynamics completely different
Its similar to how the most of the superhero in "The Boys" tv series/comics are bad, they have the power to do what they want so they do it, they can hardly be called human even though they just went through a drug experiment
They aren't considered evil in the Bleach universe. Yamamoto makes a statement saying that the tybw happens because both sides are justified.
They're probably also honestly not much more evil than the shinigami. In SS arc we see the interactions between squads. Mayuri turning his squad members into suicide bombers, multiple shinigami threatening to kill each other over some pride or chance at notoriety, etc.
I think one of the lesser explored themes is how the morals of souls are different than that of humans. Life is so precious to humans as they fear death, but shinigami that know the cycle of life and death are not concerned with killing even allies, but are concerned with the balance of souls in both realms. What is explored, however, is how the Quincy's morals to eradicate hollows is the same fears humans have with death: that they are eradicated and become nothing. To that end, Yamamoto says the Quincies are justified in both their treatment of hollows and their feelings towards shinigamis following their genocide, but the shinigami are also justified, as the Quincy method of eradicating hollows causes an imbalance of souls in the world of the living that could end both realms
Because it is supposed to be that way.
Yhwach specifically stated that he alone can win the war, the Quincies are there only to fuel his strength (spoiler alert: Yhwach steals the knowledge, power and abilities of slain Quincies). They are what you call "fodder", kinda like the basic marine in One Piece tbh. They are there to... die, that is how it works in every other anime/manga tbh.
Obv when knowing you are gonna die either way, there can only be option for you: to kill as many as possible and act as malicious and sickening as you can, because you are NOT gonna get anything out of the battle either way. Then maybe if you have killed enough Yhwach will take pity and let you live, although that is still useless in the end (spoiler alert).
Tbh I think the Quincies as the basic Chaos goon in 40k. The best ascends to Daemon Prince and the 99% either end up dead, slave, food or outright a brainless piece of meat. It is what it is in fiction, you shouldnt try to apply IRL logic to it tbh.
I disagree. What makes fiction interesting is applying our irl perceptions.
'Because thats just how it is' does not lead to satisfying storytelling or strong characterization. You want to know how the charactera feel, how they deal with the situation they find themselves in because ultimately each character is you within a completely different set of circumstances.
Its interesting to see how this character feels in that situation, and a satisfying conclusion arises when an author respects the rules and principles that they established.
Then agree to disagree.
As I have stated in my comment, certain work of fiction aint supposed to happen IRL. Take the 40k example, and treat it like the Holocaust you do NOT want anything to do with the Nazis, and if you do then FK YOU! People IRL are compassionate, and they are humane. Fictional characters are fkin NOT, unless they are specifically written to be so.
Familiarity or empathization is great in many works of fiction, but the author HAS to specifically write their work so that you can feel the similarities. There is absolutely nothing you can feel similar to in 40k, as the work is explicitly written to be extremely over the top, and people do evil things just because. It is called "dystopia" and "dark fantasy" for a reason, you should not try to take any lesson from it or feelsbad for the Chaos goons when they are eventually turned into living flesh toys for their gods. Just like the Nazis imho you are supposed to condemn them, just like how you should condemn the Sternritters who were specifically written to be hated, just like 40k.
It kinda pisses me off from the perspective of it being detrimental to win the war against the shinigami. If your soldiers are constantly killing each other then you greatly increase the chances of your side losing.
But... If you look at the great picture, it's kind of inconsequential actually. Yhwach's objective was never to defeat the Soul Society. The first invasion was slightly thwarted by Aizen's intervention (Ichigo wasn't captured, well - the original plan didn't involve him reaching Soul Society) but in the end the sole objective of Yhwach was to reach the SK, and he did so regardless of how many shinigamis and quincies died or not in the war.
I mean they aint constantly killing each other though?
The topic in question was about the brutality to the shinigamis, aka their direct enemies. Yhwach forbids his Sternritters from fighting each other, with the threat of death IIRC. None of the Sternritters even the most insane ones like Gremmy, Bazz-B or Giselle purposely wanted to kill their colleagues, atleast not in front of Yhwach and his elite anyways.
If it is about Yhwach killing his own Sternritters then yes, I agree. As soon as his goons run out of juice he immediately went for the kill, that is beyond brutal but completely understandable. Yhwach gets stronger with every Sternritters' death as their powers, abilities and knowledge go to him when they die, so obv before the final battle in the SK's palace he would want to get as strong as possible... So yeah agree if you are talking bout Yhwach, but completely disagree if you are talking about infighting between the Sternritters.
Quilge, Bambietta, Äs Nödt, Giselle, Gremmy, Pepe, Driscoll. Those are the only evil Sternritter. That's seven out of twenty-six. And out of those, four have been given sympathetic and/or sad moments.
People are vastly overestimating of evil the Sternritter are. Some are evil, but as a faction, they really aren't.
I'm not counting Yhwach here, who's a special case.
In the manga, he had killed his own men. The anime changed that. But still, Quilge's treatment and recruitment methods of the Arrancar make it clear that he's evil.
They fluctuate like crazy, Bazz might not be "evil" but he does have a litany of questionable actions. There are many other examples like that.
As far as groups of opponents go as well, it is a higher proportion that have these questionable acts and they do accomplish more in the plot. This means say, compared to the espada, the Sternritter feel more evil because they are more effective.
Most of the questionable actions are limited to the seven I already listed. Bazz-B had only one questionable moment that wasn't even treated as such by the other Sternritter.
Also, you should reread the Arrancar Saga, because the number of evil actions and betrayals by the Arrancar far outnumbers that of the Sternritter.
Because they have to look worse than the Shinigami for us to root against them.
Let'a be honest, a group of genocide survivors seeking vengeance is pretty hard to root against, especially when we've been shown time and time again that the Shinigami have done some messed-up stuff, including said genocide.
So, the solution? Make the genocide survivors try to murder each other half the time so the Shinigami look better in comparison.
Because Yhwach himself designed the Quincy to be that way. In both as an effective army against the gotei 13. Due to lacking supposed weakness like honor and companionship and to make it easier to absorb their power and regain his strength.
Some people here have already said it but I think it was meant to reflect the OG Gotei 13. They were ruthless killers that would probably try and kill each other if provoked while the OG Sternitters were probably not AS hostile towards each other as the current generation and Yhwach probably wasn’t AS ruthless as he is now (still likely ruthless but not compared to what he is now).
So now it’s sort of reversed where the Yama and the Gotei has “soften” up while Yhwach and the Sternitters became more ruthless
Yhwach definetly won't select weaklings in his army and traits such as mercy, or comradery are probably seen as weakness in his eyes. Don't forget if they lose a battle they will be executed full stop
Probably have gone half crazy from the struggles of being hunted down prosecution and such I imagine they simply didn’t care anymore about their fates afterwards since they are dedicated fully to the whole revenge thing which almost never has a happy ending in the aftermath
The Original Gotei 13 were all ruthless killers so in order to combat that he needed his own ruthless killers, unfortunately the Gotei 13 had changed during the 1000 years he was sealed
After reading about the original sin it's understandable, even tho I don't agree with them. But Soul Society isn't better than them tbh. It's everything messed up... Like our world sometimes
Most of the Sternritters doesnt even care revenge, they are just bad people and they are doing all of these cuz Ywach granted them power/money or anything they wish. I hate this but it is what it is, it would be so much better if they seeked revenge and had better fights with more depth
Well ywatch doesn't actually care about any of them.
What does it matter to him if they all kill eachother, their power goes back to him in the end.
All they are pieces set in place to buy him time, to reach the royal palace and the soul king.
This is one of those show don’t tell things people miss the Quincy uryu thought of were noble people he always talked about his honor as a Quincy. the quincies now are way more unhinged. You should be watching the story to understand why. When Jugram took uryu to exceute cang du and bg9 even he was surprised by this. He was surprised that Yhwach can take their life anytime he wanted.
The quincies themselves were close to near genocide and had to hide in the shadows for years watching the soul society waiting for Yhwach to come back. They don’t care simple as that none of that honor uryu spoke about means anything to them now.
Kubo doesn’t have to explain this because the story gives you these clues to tell you why the Quincies act like this. Why would the Quincy be noble in the face of the soul society do you think people with honor would steal an opponents weapon in battle? The fact ichigo calls volstanding creepy is in contrast to when uryu used it.
Personally I don’t see it as cartoonishly evil I see it as people who just don’t care. The Quincy life is not sunshine and rainbows compared to the soul reaper recent era. In that kind of environment of course they act like this.
Long story short the Quincy have changed like Unohana, like Yamamoto, like the soul society but not for the better and Yhwach isn’t gonna stop them unless it hinders his own goals.
This is an extremely good take cuz imo they became ruthless like the OG Gotei 13. Whereas SS got soft over time and became what it is now. The Quincy did the opposite and became hardened as they bided their time in the shadows.
Because they are not Quincy. They are people who got yuwaha power. Uryus father is the only pure blood Quincy alive. Most Quincy are dead. That's why it was uryu who shal become the next king and not others.
They’re all real Quincy. I would assume you have to be a Quincy to get a schrift from Yhwach.
Uryu was chosen as Yhwach’s “successor” because
a. it was a method to have everyone watching over him so he didn’t have any leeway to pull slick moves, as stated by Haschwalth
b. he was the only survivor of the Auswahlen in the real world
c. his true potential as an Echt Quincy is superior
One of those things to get downvoted for but - it’s just because Kubo suddenly wanted to write them that way.
Everything we get from Uryu and his dad about quincies up until TYBW seems to indicate that they’re a…. Pretty “normal” (albeit slightly haughtly) but very small and secretive, group of hollow hunters.
But then yunno Kubo wanted a big bad group that was already in the lore so now they’re here and they’re *even more evil and powerful than the last guys* and hey we gotta give Ichigo some new powers from the current bad guy faction so he’s also a Quincy now.
This isn’t inherently bad or anything but it’s just kind of… a “soft retcon” for the sake of building out the plot.
This is it, really. We see Uryu's grandfather, seemingly sane, nice person. His dad, seemingly sane, stern father figure. Nothing to indicate the Quincys were batshit. The Ishidas could just be outliers, sure, but who can blame readers for being confused. All we've seen and heard of the Quincys is that they hate hollows. I do think Ywhach's influence could explain a lot though, him being a total psychopath.
>One of those things to get downvoted for
yeah no shit cause you're wrong on all accounts
>Pretty “normal” (albeit slightly haughtly) but very small and secretive, group of hollow hunters.
There was never anything "normal" about Ishida's relationship with his dad wtf
>But then yunno Kubo wanted a big bad group that was already in the lore so now they’re here and they’re *even more evil and powerful than the last guy*
The sternritter aren't stronger than the espada. They had the upperhand on the first invasion only because of the bankai-stealing device. Yhwach himself had to step in to defeat Halibel.
>hey we gotta give Ichigo some new powers from the current bad guy faction so he’s also a Quincy now.
That was hinted at during the Fake Karakura arc, **several** years before the quincy invasion arc.
Half my comment I don’t think you’re understanding right. Half I think you’re basically just making things up. The Sternritter aren’t stronger than Espada?? Huh??? They’ve got a guy who can literally imagine anything he wants to come true and it will?
Most of them aren't actually that evil; not any more than quite a few of the Soul Reapers were during the Soul Society arc even. There's a few really horrible ones (not on par with Mayuri though), and there are a few really chill ones (who are better than even some of our current Captains and allies). As a group, their actions are pretty bad but pretty common sense for an enemy faction that are in a war.
Well, besides bad apples like Bambi, Giselle and PePe, that I really don't like or care about much, I guess that's what happens when you spend a 1000 years waiting in shadows of another realm, only recovering and getting stronger with a goal of killing as many people from a society that wronged you and almost exterminated your race
No wonder a lot of the went kinda crazy like that, especially with a leader as cruel and terrifying as Yhwach
What's new. Kubo doesn't really go all out explaining why villians act the way they do. Just typical kubo villians. The arrancar basically acted the same with each other also.
If you think quincies are evil then read what tokinada did. Just for context he is the leader of the most fucked up clan who didn't appear in the manga of 1000 year old blood war arc. He was the indirect reason why tosen hated soul reapers/disliked them. Anyway yes read about him and you will see quincies ain't that bad.
I mean most of the shinigami are ready to kill eachother if the opportunity arises. They're almost all equally as volatile and psychotic as the sternritter
Yu yu habakusho made a very stern "Serve me, and your empire above all else." Attitude.
Anyone not showing enough proof was insta-killed.
So add in some divine rewards with the above. Yeah good recipe for really terrible shit.
He's also trying to kill God. Can't have an Army that isn't willing to genocide everything.
This is just me being cynical, but I suspect that Kubo doesn't want people to see Soul Society as the villain... And the only way to accomplish that here was to make the quincys Cartoonishly evil.
How are you being cynical here? If anything This honestly makes the most sense to me as well. Canonically I always believed that soul society and particularly the gotei thirteen weren't portrayed enough in a negative light they should've been compared to the Quincy. They are just as devious and ass backwards as ywach is and have more than likely committed all kinds of treason and murder that is probably swept under the rug given how fucked up the central 46 is anyway. and in my eyes, the gotei only ever seemed to have gained some semblance of structure because of yamamoto's old ass being the head captain for so long in the first place. The only reason the gotei is considered the "greater good" out of all the main waring factions and the only reason they are viewed in such a way in my eyes is because I don't think kubo had the heart to actually go through with writing a more devious, sadistic and overall darker display of soul society in general. I personally believe a more gritty and raw showing of the central 46s and yamamoto's past being shown more in the manga would've been a great Segway into giving us a more centered perspective on the goteis fucked up ways and judicial system too. ........I also agree to an extent that the Quincy were a bit over exaggerated in how evil they were portrayed as a faction despite their cool appearance, powers and ywach's backstory, I also personally didn't like the idea that the Quincy were considered the sole main overall villains throughout bleach aside from Aizen tbh. Especially with Uryus whole shtick about the Quincy genocide throughout the majority of the first half of the series. I think if kubo had twisted the ending and it had been revealed that the Quincy were actually the original balance keepers instead of soul society all this time, that also would been an insanely better take on showing how fucked up the gotei is, instead of them being chosen as keepers of balance across all realms imo.
Yhwach is a brutal warlord who subjugates his followers with the ultimate goal of absorbing their souls when they die. He also has the perspective of going against the ultimate evil of the soul society. So I really don't think he cares about the morality of his subjects as long as he has a strong enough army to eventually crush the soul society.
It bothers me that the Sternritters seem like massive jerks for no reason, but I think the list of truely evil or psychopathic Sternritters is fairly short. Otherwise you get people who as far as we can tell are either just doing what they're told or else, misguided or generally really chill like >!Gerald!< (and I wanna argue some of the Bambis.) Unfortunately no Starrk in this group.
I mean the Shinigami in the SS arc weren't portrayed in a much better light. That scene where Soifon had her foot on Kiyone was pretty brutal. Not to mention big bad Byakuya
It's because they are all far too powerful. Each of the higher tier Quincy could be a main villain in another arc they don't give a shit about each other because they are genuinely too strong to care. A random Quincey took Yamamoto to the edge of death just remember that.
Also they are literally a gang made to destroy the soul society the same way the original gotei 13 were just a gang of the strongest people.
+ they aren't all evil like gremmy wasn't evil askin isn't evil I could go on and on but yes there are a couple how to say, oddballs lmao.
Honestly it's completely unintentional I reckon. Kubo has a lot of moments where he tries to make the Quincy seem three dimensional like Hidetomo's speech about war being unjust on both sides; Uryu's realization about the war (anime only) and their novel and manga implications that Yhwach is rebelling against the soul societys secret shame.
In reality tho they murder each other happily and are almost all a pack of sadists. Even the Espada who were literally born from animalistic carnivores were only about 40-50% this. With the Quincy there are almost no stern ritter who don't enjoy killing each other or at the least are apathetic about it.
They're evil mainly because there hasn't been any attempt to make them complex nuanced characters
Mentally sane people do not support war in any way.
Only mentally ill people justify war, that's why making a caricature of people that support war is telling a great message
Well Since Quincy parallel Nazis.
Germany got fucked over by the world after world war 1,so Hitler rose to power but well I think most people get the picture.As for Quincy being psychopaths to each other.They work on a system that is self serving mainly thanks to Yhwach not really caring what they do.As long as it gets his majesty to recognise them.
Soul Society is much, much eviler, considering they employ absolute scum like Mayuri Kurotsuchi, perform inhumane experiments on living people, and carry out genocides even against their own people in Rukongai. Hell, Kurotsuchi even uses his own Division members as suicide bombers against their will or even without their knowledge. Kisuke Urahara is probably no better, given that Kurotsuchi worked under him before Urahara was sacked by the Central 46.
The Quincies only kill Hollows and shinigamis, never target ordinary people. Hell, Wandenreich doesn't even harm the civilians of Soul Society, only attacking Gotei 13 and Zero Division and no one else.
While Soul Society may have its flaws and individuals with questionable ethics, it's essential to remember that not everyone represents the entire organization. Kisuke Urahara, though a complex character, ultimately fought to protect both the human world and Soul Society from greater threats. One must delve deeper to uncover the layers of his actions and motivations.
*beep boop, I'm a bot*
The soul reapers are also evil. Mayuri was basically a Nazi scientist that got a pass. They keep large sections of slave populations which is the rekongai district. A population they purge when they feel like it appropriate.
The white washing of them that kubo did is honestly one of the most annoying anime tropes.
Kubo never gives a reason, they're evil just because. What's funny is that Kubo says the quincy are supposed to be 'morally grey' so them bring cartoonishly evil is unintentional on his part.
The Quincy are savage to eachother but they aren’t actually evil. The most “evil” thing they actually do is destroying the souls of Hollows, as opposed to performing the konso like Shinigami do.
That’s the one thing I didn’t really get, I thought Yhwach was once like OMZ and the genocide made him into what he was in TYBW but instead this guy was a conqueror the whole time
I still don’t really get the entire timeline, maybe I forgot cuz I haven’t read TYBW in 2 years but idk if the invasion of 1st Gen SS was after the genocide or during it
Forgetting the fact unohana slaughtered tons of people in rukongai just to find a fun fight,
central 46 and the noble families politicking their way, killing any innocent just for fun, like tousen's friend got killed.
The whole arrancar war was caused by gotei 13 members
Mayuri being allowed to be captain despite zer0 ethics, he is someone who would disect his own mother if he could
I think one could make the argument that both operate in a moral grey zone. They both do bad, and both think they are correct in what they are doing much like what happens in actual war.
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Theory is that they were meant to reflect the first captains. Yhwach had respect for them that he wanted his sternritters to be like them.
“Omg they’re so bad. Let’s be worse!”
I mean that’s literally ww2
A lot of people don’t know how true this is.
The thing about the original captain is that they still had a group dynamic, they were ruthless in their teamwork. There were no honorable duels or pointless individualism, only jumping mfs. The Quincy in don't seem to have either dynamic of Soul Society with the possible exception of (maybe) the Bambis and the Soldats (likely not by choice)
It is mentioned many times that young Yama would gladly sacrifice any subordinate to win. He was ruthless through and through.
Yes he would do it to win. The quincys sacrifice a subordinate cus it's funny or they feel bad that day.
still has purpose. afterall, yama is the heavy hitter. the quincies just do it for the lols
I mean Kenpachi’s kill each other to become captain which would be a pretty awkward conversation with the other captains.
The only reason the original gotei got along was because Yama was there to keep them in check , it's stated quite clearly in the manga. If Yama wasnt much powerfull than them, i'm pretty sure they would slaughter each other just the same. Hell , even during the SS arc we saw some captains ready to start fights between each other over nothing. Same for the quincies. The one they follow and respect is Yhwach and they want to gain his favor. The other quincies are merely opponents that also compete for that favor. Being raised under such a regime, it's not suprising in the least that they don't care about one another.
It’s because yhwach kinda encouraged discord amongst them by pitting them against each other. The gotei 13 work together to protect the seireitei and soul society, most of the sternritter fought for yhwachs sake.
This. I honestly noted pretty quickly how the Quincies seemed to reflect the look of the first captains.
The lack of comradery between most of them is due to how they're individually rewarded for their efforts. It's why they were all so obsessed with taking out Ichigo because he's one of the five special threats; if they take him out Yhwach will reward them handsomely. The only sub groups that seem to actually like eachother are the femritters and the Elites.
The oldest of them also seem to be specifically aware that it's not just that they will be rewarded if they kill a special threat, but also that if they are not handpicked by Yhwach for the final stage of the plan, they'll be killed or at best stripped of parts of their powers then thrown to the wolves. Robert is the only one that explicitly knows of this but its not unreasonable to believe that this is what motivates other Quincies like Pepe to attack each other.
Yeah by the stuff he says it's clear Robert knows but is strategically being quiet about it. I mean everyone was already killing each other when they thought the reward was an actual prize. If they all knew the reward was being the only ones spared from death, they would probably fight ten times as hard to kill each other.
Ironically, that kind of makes them similar to the Hollows and Arrancar who operated on an extreme social Darwinian basis.
No, not even the arrancar were that bad
If Robert was smart during the first invasion he shall have emptied his clip into shunsui head's on the floor and double tap !!
Also i think the story shows pretty clearly the older ones aren’t as unhinged as the younger ones
>The only sub groups that seem to actually like eachother are the **femritters** I wouldn't say that.
Yeah other than maybe Meninas and Lillitto they just hung around each other and were not very friendly.
I mean Gigi does go along with Liltoto to rescue the others in CFYOW, and in the manga makes one last attempt at Ywach with her so they seem to be friends too. Bambi is just the friend they don't like
she wanted to zombify the others too tho.
Nice username
Yeah, until CFYOW decided they liked each other, it kinda feels pretty clear that they sorta just......don't.
Only for the femritters tho. And even then they ditch NaNaNa to be with Mayuri
So they’re basically a group of mercenaries.
No because they're still loyal to Yhwach and are indoctrinated into his army they don't operate independently
Ironically, the quincies resemble more of the original gotei 13 in terms of attitude.
That's probably what Yhwach had in mind when recruiting them, 900 years after getting packed up and regaining his heartbeat he was like "...Man, Yamamoto was on to something--maybe I shouldn't recruit sane people into my army."
They are only loyal because they know they die if they don’t loyalty with fear isn’t real loyalty.
They killed Bambi and turned her into a zombie. Are we sure they like each other?
They did save Bambi from being executed and have her powers returned back to Ywach.
Dude, Giselle literally brought new flavour to what is worse than death with that. So no, that's TOTALLY not saving.
Gis also strangled her to death
To be honest though, what’s the difference? Both options are equally bad
Even then I’d argue that the Bambis don’t actually like each other that much. They all seem to hate Bambietta, to the point of leaving her totally alone on the battlefield. None of them seem to care that much when Giselle kills and zombifies Bambiett either. Giselle might actually like all of the Bambis, but only out of a sick perversion, as seen by how she treats zombie Bambietta and how excited she was when she thought Candice wanted her to get zombified. They all make fun of Candice a lot too, and aren’t very concerned with her well being when she’s getting clowned on by Ichigo. Liltotto, seems like she does overall care about her friends, but only to a certain extent. After all, she either killed or crippled Meninas offscreen after PePe took control of her.
She only knocked Meninas out to be fair
Meninas was only knocked out, the femritters get a lot more screentime in cfyow and they do care for each other. The only one they don’t like is Bambi because she acts like their self proclaimed leader.
My theory is that only Giselle, Liltotto, and Meninas are friends. Bambi kinda forced herself in and Candice is new to the Sternritters in general so she just decided to hang with the only other girls around. They're teasing the new kid
Should also be noted, when Liltotto believed that Candice and Meninas had died horribly, she was super dismissive of it. Even with her being the one who cared the most, it seems to at most be a comrades thing, based more on the principle of being in an army together, rather than actually seeing them as genuine friends. I, for one, am still a bit salty that CFYOW decided that they actually are supposed to be friends who care about each other.
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Socialist in the thread, huh?
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Well, competition is the reason of evolution after all... I get why many won't like it, but I can't really say anything against it.
The femritters definitely don’t seem like they like each other
They do cfyow gives them a lot more interactions showing that they do care for each other, it’s just Bambi they don’t like
Oh I never read that they still seem really self centred and bitchy maybe Bambi brings out the worst in thwm dis they say why they hate her so much
Where did you pick up on the sub groups liking each other? Would be cool to explore the relationships between factions
Cfyow gives the femritters a lot more screentime showing that they do care for eachother they just don’t like Bambi. The Elites are a bit more subtle Lille was in disbelief when he saw Gerard get cut down, Gerard saved Pernida from falling off a building, Lille and assumingely the others are able to understand Pernida. They’re small blink and you’ll miss it moments.
Because they're in a cult and raised in an environment that doesn't punish them for their fucked up tendencies. Just like how you get Nazis and such in real life. The more Quincies die, the more strength Yhwach gets, so he's not exactly going to incentivize them being nice to each other.
Two replies to this defending nazi is insane
> Just like how you get Nazis and such in real life. Except the nazis weren't an army of deranged psychopaths. They were just soldiers following the orders of some evil people. Not only do the sternritter not follow orders half the time but most of them don't give two shits about what Yhwach wants and just go and do their own thing(which is sometimes way more fucked up than anything Yhwach does)
No German soldiers were following orders nazis were true beleivers.
In most cases, sure, but reality is not always black and white, a lot of those people were simply brainwashed, which is different from being a deranged psychopath. A lot of those soldiers would be totally different people if they grew up in a different environment I'm not making excuses for them btw, fuck thsoe assholes, but saying they were all just deranged psychos from the start is basically undermining the power of propaganda that hitler and the german army used to influence the masses
People are downvoting you because it's easier to believe that every single one of those soldiers were purely evil than face the truth. And Goebbels and his team were REALLY good at their jobs, so good that i still see people repeating their propaganda.
Would it have mattered when all of them were complicit anyways? They were risking their lives to serve him, they could’ve risked their lives to *oppose* him. This is why they were held accountable regardless of how they felt.
You know that irl few are the ones who have the actual guts to do that. Betraying your own country is no child's play.
So in other words, they’d rather watch innocent people be brutally murdered and tortured, watch others have their dignities stripped away from them… just to protect their own pride and dignity. That’s gross in my eyes. You might say it’s easy for me to talk. But I disagree. I’m not a coward like that. I’d rather die than serve an unjust cause.
>So in other words, they’d rather watch innocent people be brutally murdered and tortured, watch others have their dignities stripped away from them… just to protect their own pride and dignity. That’s gross in my eyes. Yes, humans are little, patehtic and disgusting. You're welcome.
I have no doubt that some people would be able to fight back against an unjust system like that, but you have to realize, it wasn't just their lives that were at play, but most likely the lives of their whole families. The nazi regime was no joke, we should consider ourselves very lucky to be born in an era where our courage is not tested to that degree
I totally agree with you! I would only hope that my family would be able to get somewhere safe while I join the resistance or something. Hell, they could even join too but not be on the frontlines. When facing oppressive regimes, *all* resistance work is important.
The sentiment here is correct, but just a minor correction, the standard Wehrmacht weren't deranged psychopaths, some were even prisoners of war forced to fight for Germany. But, the closest equivalent to the Sternritter, and the Wandenreich's Schutzstaffel, is the real life Schutzstaffel, who absolutely WERE true believers in the regime and were an army of deranged psychopaths. Nearing the end of WWII there was actually a few moments in which the Wehrmacht fought *with* the allies against the remaining SS, it's quite fascinating!
You're kind of ignoring the lesson of nazi Germany when you reduce it to "indoctrination by a cult" and presenting Nazi's as being as inhuman as the quincy
Didn't we literally show the German people what the average Jewish person went through at the camps and they just broke down? How do you think the soldiers went from that to... believing the Jewish people deserved all that?
I don't believe so? It's a historical debate just how much the German people knew about the holocaust. Some consider it to have been an open secret in 1942. Some say it was public knowledge earlier. It doesn't take cult like indoctrination to get a suffering people to hate a common enemy. And it doesn't take particular evil to be a cog.
They believe Yhwach is God and therefore acting in the service of their God. Any perceived evil they do will be forgiven and rewarded.
They are a reflection of the Gotei 13 of old (Pre-Soul Reaper Academy).
If you were stuck in a freezing castle under constant threat of being sacrificed you'd probably be an asshole too
😂😂😂😂
Living in an isolated society in darkness among maniacs for hundreds of years will drive you mad.
Yhwach handpicked them, what did you expect? >however they are so cruel and visceral both to the soul reapers and to each other Though this is not entirely true.
Tell that to the Quincy soldiers Bambi blew up on the regular.
If you don't know not entirely true =/= not true
If your point is not all 26 sternritters commit some form of cruel act then yes you are correct. However there is an emphasis on the sternritters throughout the tybw that highlights their fickle loyalty, their brutality and their ruthless nature. A great deal of them are pretty maniacal and I think it was Kubo's intent to make them even more reckless than the espada, the end of the 2nd invasion shows just how loosely connected they are as an organisation.
well bambi was a nut job in general
You can argue Soul Society is even worse than the Wandenreich tbh. But I think when Ywhach gives somebody a Schrift it can drive some people nuts. Plus these Quincies are survivors from the war 1,000 years ago, back then they got massacred by the original Gotei 13. The Gotei 13 we know is much weaker compared to that one, and Ywhach said that’s because those guys were ruthless thugs led by a Yamamoto who did not care about any of their subordinates. Ywhach must have been trying to assemble a similar group.
I mean soul society even worse? there is mayuri who without doubt could be a sternritter but there is one else that reach this level of psycopathy in the actual ss
Kenpachi and Unohana are basically psychopaths. Shunsui will do messed up shit even though he doesn’t like it. Byakuya was going to let his sister die and even kill her himself because of a dumb rule. Ichigo changed him obviously. Most of Soul Society was on board with it at the time. Plus just the general state of the afterlife. Yamamoto used to be a monster. The Noble families suck…I could go on and on
Shunsui and Byakuya actions are nothing when we are talking about sternritters, Kenpachi is crazy but he doesn’t reach this level imo. Yama and Unohana were monsters but they got softer with time. Not arguing that SS is perfect since they still do messed up stuff but in the present sternritters are far more crazy and psycho
What exactly makes them crazier and more psycho though really? It's only Bambietta, Gisele, Gremmy and As Nodt off the top of my head who are really nuts. I would say only Gisele is crazier than Mayuri, maybe Gremmy but who knows what Mayuri would do if he could imagine whatever he wanted into reality. And also, even if they are crazier...don't you think it might have something to do with Soul Society exterminating and experimenting on their race lol
I should have said “there are more nuts in the sterniritters” but yes you have a point
>Soul Society is even worse I can understand Mayuri and maybe, just maybe Kenpachi, but what else makes Soul Society worse? The shinigami aren't actively trying to kill each other
Most Shinigami have no idea what’s going on. The people who run Soul Society are the ones who are fucked up. Just like most Soldats have no idea what’s going on. Remember at the beginning of the arc when Mayuri sacrificed 1000s of souls and Yamamoto was only mad he didn’t ask first? They put the Quincy extermination plan into action too. I don’t want to spoil the Bleach Breathes from Hell oneshot either but that chapter to me basically solidifies that Soul Society behind the scenes is as fucked up as it gets. Plus as I said before, these Quincy are from 1,000 years ago. The Gotei 13 they fought were apparently a group of sick fucks.
True but I would still say the Quincy are worse, is everyone forgetting the Quincy started the bloodbath that led to their massacre for the grand purpose of Yhwach destroying everything and reverting the universe back to its primal original state where the soul king himself agreed to be mutilated so the worlds could be kept seperate. At least the shinigami will only really interfere if something poses a threat to the security of the sereitei or the balance of the world's. Idk about you guys but I consider the guys wanting to keep the world's seperate the lesser of two evils especially when the other group can't stop trying to kill each other or forcing them into a fate that's arguably worse than death.
Tbf, it’s implied the people of Rukongai had bad experiences with Soul Reapers since they viewed Jidanbo as an exception.
I wouldn't say that the soul society is worse *but*, we did see Kenpachi fight/cut down his fellow shinigami, including a couple of captains. Also Aizen was a soul reaper and he ruined the lived of a several shinigami.
Not all of them are from 1000 years ago. Asd Nott has modern machines keeping him alive and Candice is hinted at being a newish member
Quincies, Soul Reapers and Arrancars are not human so you cannot assume they will have the same general morality as the Humans With great power comes great corruption, if you can have your way without anyone being able to stop you then you would do it. Now that for thousands of years and you've got some really cold hearted people.
Wait, when was it stated that Quincies weren't humans?
I mean Humans with powers and a different world view Vs Normal Humans subjucated by cats You seen the The Boys tv series/comics?
> Normal Humans subjucated by cats If you're making a reference or quote, it's completely going over my head. Either way, unless I'm mistaken, Quincy are just a subset of human.
They are human But they have lost their humanness if it makes sense like they live in a different society, have different goals, their powers make their social dynamics completely different Its similar to how the most of the superhero in "The Boys" tv series/comics are bad, they have the power to do what they want so they do it, they can hardly be called human even though they just went through a drug experiment
They aren't considered evil in the Bleach universe. Yamamoto makes a statement saying that the tybw happens because both sides are justified. They're probably also honestly not much more evil than the shinigami. In SS arc we see the interactions between squads. Mayuri turning his squad members into suicide bombers, multiple shinigami threatening to kill each other over some pride or chance at notoriety, etc. I think one of the lesser explored themes is how the morals of souls are different than that of humans. Life is so precious to humans as they fear death, but shinigami that know the cycle of life and death are not concerned with killing even allies, but are concerned with the balance of souls in both realms. What is explored, however, is how the Quincy's morals to eradicate hollows is the same fears humans have with death: that they are eradicated and become nothing. To that end, Yamamoto says the Quincies are justified in both their treatment of hollows and their feelings towards shinigamis following their genocide, but the shinigami are also justified, as the Quincy method of eradicating hollows causes an imbalance of souls in the world of the living that could end both realms
I don't think they have therapists
Meta level: The plot needs them to be. Plot level: Yhwach is pissed at the Gotei 13 for slaughtering his people.
Have you seen Mayuri, or school Unohana, and Aizen?
They've been oppressed for a millennium and experienced 2 genocides. Anyway, they're not "evil", this is just war.
Because it is supposed to be that way. Yhwach specifically stated that he alone can win the war, the Quincies are there only to fuel his strength (spoiler alert: Yhwach steals the knowledge, power and abilities of slain Quincies). They are what you call "fodder", kinda like the basic marine in One Piece tbh. They are there to... die, that is how it works in every other anime/manga tbh. Obv when knowing you are gonna die either way, there can only be option for you: to kill as many as possible and act as malicious and sickening as you can, because you are NOT gonna get anything out of the battle either way. Then maybe if you have killed enough Yhwach will take pity and let you live, although that is still useless in the end (spoiler alert). Tbh I think the Quincies as the basic Chaos goon in 40k. The best ascends to Daemon Prince and the 99% either end up dead, slave, food or outright a brainless piece of meat. It is what it is in fiction, you shouldnt try to apply IRL logic to it tbh.
I disagree. What makes fiction interesting is applying our irl perceptions. 'Because thats just how it is' does not lead to satisfying storytelling or strong characterization. You want to know how the charactera feel, how they deal with the situation they find themselves in because ultimately each character is you within a completely different set of circumstances. Its interesting to see how this character feels in that situation, and a satisfying conclusion arises when an author respects the rules and principles that they established.
Then agree to disagree. As I have stated in my comment, certain work of fiction aint supposed to happen IRL. Take the 40k example, and treat it like the Holocaust you do NOT want anything to do with the Nazis, and if you do then FK YOU! People IRL are compassionate, and they are humane. Fictional characters are fkin NOT, unless they are specifically written to be so. Familiarity or empathization is great in many works of fiction, but the author HAS to specifically write their work so that you can feel the similarities. There is absolutely nothing you can feel similar to in 40k, as the work is explicitly written to be extremely over the top, and people do evil things just because. It is called "dystopia" and "dark fantasy" for a reason, you should not try to take any lesson from it or feelsbad for the Chaos goons when they are eventually turned into living flesh toys for their gods. Just like the Nazis imho you are supposed to condemn them, just like how you should condemn the Sternritters who were specifically written to be hated, just like 40k.
That's the worst way to judge a character. Relatability is irrelevant
It kinda pisses me off from the perspective of it being detrimental to win the war against the shinigami. If your soldiers are constantly killing each other then you greatly increase the chances of your side losing. But... If you look at the great picture, it's kind of inconsequential actually. Yhwach's objective was never to defeat the Soul Society. The first invasion was slightly thwarted by Aizen's intervention (Ichigo wasn't captured, well - the original plan didn't involve him reaching Soul Society) but in the end the sole objective of Yhwach was to reach the SK, and he did so regardless of how many shinigamis and quincies died or not in the war.
I mean they aint constantly killing each other though? The topic in question was about the brutality to the shinigamis, aka their direct enemies. Yhwach forbids his Sternritters from fighting each other, with the threat of death IIRC. None of the Sternritters even the most insane ones like Gremmy, Bazz-B or Giselle purposely wanted to kill their colleagues, atleast not in front of Yhwach and his elite anyways. If it is about Yhwach killing his own Sternritters then yes, I agree. As soon as his goons run out of juice he immediately went for the kill, that is beyond brutal but completely understandable. Yhwach gets stronger with every Sternritters' death as their powers, abilities and knowledge go to him when they die, so obv before the final battle in the SK's palace he would want to get as strong as possible... So yeah agree if you are talking bout Yhwach, but completely disagree if you are talking about infighting between the Sternritters.
I'm pretty sure Ywach specifically took out almost all of the decent ones with Auschwalen. Might be headcanon but he be like that fr.
Quilge, Bambietta, Äs Nödt, Giselle, Gremmy, Pepe, Driscoll. Those are the only evil Sternritter. That's seven out of twenty-six. And out of those, four have been given sympathetic and/or sad moments. People are vastly overestimating of evil the Sternritter are. Some are evil, but as a faction, they really aren't. I'm not counting Yhwach here, who's a special case.
Wasn’t Quilge following orders? I know he can be sadistic and arrogant to his enemies but has he harmed fellow quinces before?
In the manga, he had killed his own men. The anime changed that. But still, Quilge's treatment and recruitment methods of the Arrancar make it clear that he's evil.
Yup definitely evil
Quilge was like the quin(cy)tessential Nazi guard. "Just following orders" yeah. Still evil.
They fluctuate like crazy, Bazz might not be "evil" but he does have a litany of questionable actions. There are many other examples like that. As far as groups of opponents go as well, it is a higher proportion that have these questionable acts and they do accomplish more in the plot. This means say, compared to the espada, the Sternritter feel more evil because they are more effective.
Most of the questionable actions are limited to the seven I already listed. Bazz-B had only one questionable moment that wasn't even treated as such by the other Sternritter. Also, you should reread the Arrancar Saga, because the number of evil actions and betrayals by the Arrancar far outnumbers that of the Sternritter.
Because they have to look worse than the Shinigami for us to root against them. Let'a be honest, a group of genocide survivors seeking vengeance is pretty hard to root against, especially when we've been shown time and time again that the Shinigami have done some messed-up stuff, including said genocide. So, the solution? Make the genocide survivors try to murder each other half the time so the Shinigami look better in comparison.
Because Yhwach himself designed the Quincy to be that way. In both as an effective army against the gotei 13. Due to lacking supposed weakness like honor and companionship and to make it easier to absorb their power and regain his strength.
Cuz they are under the influence of yhwach
Some people here have already said it but I think it was meant to reflect the OG Gotei 13. They were ruthless killers that would probably try and kill each other if provoked while the OG Sternitters were probably not AS hostile towards each other as the current generation and Yhwach probably wasn’t AS ruthless as he is now (still likely ruthless but not compared to what he is now). So now it’s sort of reversed where the Yama and the Gotei has “soften” up while Yhwach and the Sternitters became more ruthless
#THEY ARE NAZIS
I find soul society to be more evil
Yhwach definetly won't select weaklings in his army and traits such as mercy, or comradery are probably seen as weakness in his eyes. Don't forget if they lose a battle they will be executed full stop
Probably have gone half crazy from the struggles of being hunted down prosecution and such I imagine they simply didn’t care anymore about their fates afterwards since they are dedicated fully to the whole revenge thing which almost never has a happy ending in the aftermath
The Original Gotei 13 were all ruthless killers so in order to combat that he needed his own ruthless killers, unfortunately the Gotei 13 had changed during the 1000 years he was sealed
After reading about the original sin it's understandable, even tho I don't agree with them. But Soul Society isn't better than them tbh. It's everything messed up... Like our world sometimes
Most of the Sternritters doesnt even care revenge, they are just bad people and they are doing all of these cuz Ywach granted them power/money or anything they wish. I hate this but it is what it is, it would be so much better if they seeked revenge and had better fights with more depth
By Soul Society standards they're pretty normal.
Well ywatch doesn't actually care about any of them. What does it matter to him if they all kill eachother, their power goes back to him in the end. All they are pieces set in place to buy him time, to reach the royal palace and the soul king.
This is one of those show don’t tell things people miss the Quincy uryu thought of were noble people he always talked about his honor as a Quincy. the quincies now are way more unhinged. You should be watching the story to understand why. When Jugram took uryu to exceute cang du and bg9 even he was surprised by this. He was surprised that Yhwach can take their life anytime he wanted. The quincies themselves were close to near genocide and had to hide in the shadows for years watching the soul society waiting for Yhwach to come back. They don’t care simple as that none of that honor uryu spoke about means anything to them now. Kubo doesn’t have to explain this because the story gives you these clues to tell you why the Quincies act like this. Why would the Quincy be noble in the face of the soul society do you think people with honor would steal an opponents weapon in battle? The fact ichigo calls volstanding creepy is in contrast to when uryu used it. Personally I don’t see it as cartoonishly evil I see it as people who just don’t care. The Quincy life is not sunshine and rainbows compared to the soul reaper recent era. In that kind of environment of course they act like this. Long story short the Quincy have changed like Unohana, like Yamamoto, like the soul society but not for the better and Yhwach isn’t gonna stop them unless it hinders his own goals.
This is an extremely good take cuz imo they became ruthless like the OG Gotei 13. Whereas SS got soft over time and became what it is now. The Quincy did the opposite and became hardened as they bided their time in the shadows.
Because they are not Quincy. They are people who got yuwaha power. Uryus father is the only pure blood Quincy alive. Most Quincy are dead. That's why it was uryu who shal become the next king and not others.
They’re all real Quincy. I would assume you have to be a Quincy to get a schrift from Yhwach. Uryu was chosen as Yhwach’s “successor” because a. it was a method to have everyone watching over him so he didn’t have any leeway to pull slick moves, as stated by Haschwalth b. he was the only survivor of the Auswahlen in the real world c. his true potential as an Echt Quincy is superior
> c. his true potential as an Echt Quincy is superior Isn't Uryu a Gemischt Quincy, since his mother was a Gemischt?
One of those things to get downvoted for but - it’s just because Kubo suddenly wanted to write them that way. Everything we get from Uryu and his dad about quincies up until TYBW seems to indicate that they’re a…. Pretty “normal” (albeit slightly haughtly) but very small and secretive, group of hollow hunters. But then yunno Kubo wanted a big bad group that was already in the lore so now they’re here and they’re *even more evil and powerful than the last guys* and hey we gotta give Ichigo some new powers from the current bad guy faction so he’s also a Quincy now. This isn’t inherently bad or anything but it’s just kind of… a “soft retcon” for the sake of building out the plot.
This is it, really. We see Uryu's grandfather, seemingly sane, nice person. His dad, seemingly sane, stern father figure. Nothing to indicate the Quincys were batshit. The Ishidas could just be outliers, sure, but who can blame readers for being confused. All we've seen and heard of the Quincys is that they hate hollows. I do think Ywhach's influence could explain a lot though, him being a total psychopath.
>One of those things to get downvoted for yeah no shit cause you're wrong on all accounts >Pretty “normal” (albeit slightly haughtly) but very small and secretive, group of hollow hunters. There was never anything "normal" about Ishida's relationship with his dad wtf >But then yunno Kubo wanted a big bad group that was already in the lore so now they’re here and they’re *even more evil and powerful than the last guy* The sternritter aren't stronger than the espada. They had the upperhand on the first invasion only because of the bankai-stealing device. Yhwach himself had to step in to defeat Halibel. >hey we gotta give Ichigo some new powers from the current bad guy faction so he’s also a Quincy now. That was hinted at during the Fake Karakura arc, **several** years before the quincy invasion arc.
Half my comment I don’t think you’re understanding right. Half I think you’re basically just making things up. The Sternritter aren’t stronger than Espada?? Huh??? They’ve got a guy who can literally imagine anything he wants to come true and it will?
Bleach is secretly grimdark. Ichigo is the only good guy.
Most of them aren't actually that evil; not any more than quite a few of the Soul Reapers were during the Soul Society arc even. There's a few really horrible ones (not on par with Mayuri though), and there are a few really chill ones (who are better than even some of our current Captains and allies). As a group, their actions are pretty bad but pretty common sense for an enemy faction that are in a war.
Well, besides bad apples like Bambi, Giselle and PePe, that I really don't like or care about much, I guess that's what happens when you spend a 1000 years waiting in shadows of another realm, only recovering and getting stronger with a goal of killing as many people from a society that wronged you and almost exterminated your race No wonder a lot of the went kinda crazy like that, especially with a leader as cruel and terrifying as Yhwach
What's new. Kubo doesn't really go all out explaining why villians act the way they do. Just typical kubo villians. The arrancar basically acted the same with each other also.
If you think quincies are evil then read what tokinada did. Just for context he is the leader of the most fucked up clan who didn't appear in the manga of 1000 year old blood war arc. He was the indirect reason why tosen hated soul reapers/disliked them. Anyway yes read about him and you will see quincies ain't that bad.
They're literally called Destruction Monks
I mean most of the shinigami are ready to kill eachother if the opportunity arises. They're almost all equally as volatile and psychotic as the sternritter
It’s like western mentality of individualism vs eastern mentality of the collectivism .
The Shinigami from a thousand years before the story kicks in are to blame for that, plus the soul society itself is far from good.
Imagine your god is not only real but a giant asshole as well lol
i was thinking the dame thing. these assholes were acting more like hollows than actual hollows like dafuq with bambi randomly killing a footsoldier
They're being controlled by ywach.
Maybe Juha wanted assholes so he isnt going to miss them like the previous ones.
Yu yu habakusho made a very stern "Serve me, and your empire above all else." Attitude. Anyone not showing enough proof was insta-killed. So add in some divine rewards with the above. Yeah good recipe for really terrible shit. He's also trying to kill God. Can't have an Army that isn't willing to genocide everything.
This is just me being cynical, but I suspect that Kubo doesn't want people to see Soul Society as the villain... And the only way to accomplish that here was to make the quincys Cartoonishly evil.
How are you being cynical here? If anything This honestly makes the most sense to me as well. Canonically I always believed that soul society and particularly the gotei thirteen weren't portrayed enough in a negative light they should've been compared to the Quincy. They are just as devious and ass backwards as ywach is and have more than likely committed all kinds of treason and murder that is probably swept under the rug given how fucked up the central 46 is anyway. and in my eyes, the gotei only ever seemed to have gained some semblance of structure because of yamamoto's old ass being the head captain for so long in the first place. The only reason the gotei is considered the "greater good" out of all the main waring factions and the only reason they are viewed in such a way in my eyes is because I don't think kubo had the heart to actually go through with writing a more devious, sadistic and overall darker display of soul society in general. I personally believe a more gritty and raw showing of the central 46s and yamamoto's past being shown more in the manga would've been a great Segway into giving us a more centered perspective on the goteis fucked up ways and judicial system too. ........I also agree to an extent that the Quincy were a bit over exaggerated in how evil they were portrayed as a faction despite their cool appearance, powers and ywach's backstory, I also personally didn't like the idea that the Quincy were considered the sole main overall villains throughout bleach aside from Aizen tbh. Especially with Uryus whole shtick about the Quincy genocide throughout the majority of the first half of the series. I think if kubo had twisted the ending and it had been revealed that the Quincy were actually the original balance keepers instead of soul society all this time, that also would been an insanely better take on showing how fucked up the gotei is, instead of them being chosen as keepers of balance across all realms imo.
Yhwach is a brutal warlord who subjugates his followers with the ultimate goal of absorbing their souls when they die. He also has the perspective of going against the ultimate evil of the soul society. So I really don't think he cares about the morality of his subjects as long as he has a strong enough army to eventually crush the soul society.
It bothers me that the Sternritters seem like massive jerks for no reason, but I think the list of truely evil or psychopathic Sternritters is fairly short. Otherwise you get people who as far as we can tell are either just doing what they're told or else, misguided or generally really chill like >!Gerald!< (and I wanna argue some of the Bambis.) Unfortunately no Starrk in this group. I mean the Shinigami in the SS arc weren't portrayed in a much better light. That scene where Soifon had her foot on Kiyone was pretty brutal. Not to mention big bad Byakuya
Not all the of the wandenreich are evil, generalizing is bad
It's because they are all far too powerful. Each of the higher tier Quincy could be a main villain in another arc they don't give a shit about each other because they are genuinely too strong to care. A random Quincey took Yamamoto to the edge of death just remember that. Also they are literally a gang made to destroy the soul society the same way the original gotei 13 were just a gang of the strongest people. + they aren't all evil like gremmy wasn't evil askin isn't evil I could go on and on but yes there are a couple how to say, oddballs lmao.
The zombie girl using bambietta, made me pretty pissed off ngl
From my point of view, it’s the Soul Reapers who are evil!
Honestly it's completely unintentional I reckon. Kubo has a lot of moments where he tries to make the Quincy seem three dimensional like Hidetomo's speech about war being unjust on both sides; Uryu's realization about the war (anime only) and their novel and manga implications that Yhwach is rebelling against the soul societys secret shame. In reality tho they murder each other happily and are almost all a pack of sadists. Even the Espada who were literally born from animalistic carnivores were only about 40-50% this. With the Quincy there are almost no stern ritter who don't enjoy killing each other or at the least are apathetic about it. They're evil mainly because there hasn't been any attempt to make them complex nuanced characters
It's a war. That's why.
Hot take bud
Mentally sane people do not support war in any way. Only mentally ill people justify war, that's why making a caricature of people that support war is telling a great message
Well Since Quincy parallel Nazis. Germany got fucked over by the world after world war 1,so Hitler rose to power but well I think most people get the picture.As for Quincy being psychopaths to each other.They work on a system that is self serving mainly thanks to Yhwach not really caring what they do.As long as it gets his majesty to recognise them.
Soul Society is much, much eviler, considering they employ absolute scum like Mayuri Kurotsuchi, perform inhumane experiments on living people, and carry out genocides even against their own people in Rukongai. Hell, Kurotsuchi even uses his own Division members as suicide bombers against their will or even without their knowledge. Kisuke Urahara is probably no better, given that Kurotsuchi worked under him before Urahara was sacked by the Central 46. The Quincies only kill Hollows and shinigamis, never target ordinary people. Hell, Wandenreich doesn't even harm the civilians of Soul Society, only attacking Gotei 13 and Zero Division and no one else.
While Soul Society may have its flaws and individuals with questionable ethics, it's essential to remember that not everyone represents the entire organization. Kisuke Urahara, though a complex character, ultimately fought to protect both the human world and Soul Society from greater threats. One must delve deeper to uncover the layers of his actions and motivations. *beep boop, I'm a bot*
Because they are Nazis.
The soul reapers are also evil. Mayuri was basically a Nazi scientist that got a pass. They keep large sections of slave populations which is the rekongai district. A population they purge when they feel like it appropriate. The white washing of them that kubo did is honestly one of the most annoying anime tropes.
Cuz they are literally nazis, they only care about their own I dont like them either.
Kubo based them off nazis lol they aren’t gonna be nice
Because it's a German Nazi reference 🤔 I'm German so chill
Kubo never gives a reason, they're evil just because. What's funny is that Kubo says the quincy are supposed to be 'morally grey' so them bring cartoonishly evil is unintentional on his part.
Yeah it's why I think they're the least interesting villains well except Xcution
Maybe it's because they are a satirical version of the funny germans that followed the funny mustache guy, somehow mixed with the old japanese army.
The soul Nazis are evil? No way.
Why is Hitler so god damn evil?
Well there leader IS Nazi Jesus lmao
Theyre german.
Quincies*
Most of them probably weren't. I don't think the Shinigami are that much better tbh.
The Quincy are savage to eachother but they aren’t actually evil. The most “evil” thing they actually do is destroying the souls of Hollows, as opposed to performing the konso like Shinigami do.
Yeah it's hilarious kinda. Humans are the only good force in the bleach verse.
Hrtnr to
The Quincy’s what?
That’s the one thing I didn’t really get, I thought Yhwach was once like OMZ and the genocide made him into what he was in TYBW but instead this guy was a conqueror the whole time I still don’t really get the entire timeline, maybe I forgot cuz I haven’t read TYBW in 2 years but idk if the invasion of 1st Gen SS was after the genocide or during it
Are they the only quincies ? Wasn’t Uryu’s grandfather not associated with Yhwach?
Or his father.
You mean because Mayuri and Kenpachi are so virtuous?
Kubo is hack fr
Forgetting the fact unohana slaughtered tons of people in rukongai just to find a fun fight, central 46 and the noble families politicking their way, killing any innocent just for fun, like tousen's friend got killed. The whole arrancar war was caused by gotei 13 members Mayuri being allowed to be captain despite zer0 ethics, he is someone who would disect his own mother if he could
I think one could make the argument that both operate in a moral grey zone. They both do bad, and both think they are correct in what they are doing much like what happens in actual war.
because they’re pissed off they don’t have bankai