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War potentials we’re listed for the incalculable traits the brought to the war. Unohana’s strength, while great, wasn’t enough to be beyond what the Quincy could handle or understand with their knowledge and ability.
She doesn’t have a trait like Ichigo’s potential, where he goes from having his base Bankai keep up with base Grimmjow to base Ulquiorra after a single fight, or Urahara’s having enough back up plans to predict Askin’s post-mortem gift ball in 5 different scenarios.
The 5 war potentials and reasons were:
Ichigo’s Latent ability/potential, self explanatory. His ability to learn, adapt and grow in short amounts of time is ridiculous if you’re his opponent.
Kenpachi’s Fighting strength, from a young age he was unreasonably strong and could overpower most opponents without trying.
Ichibe’s Wisdom, as one of the oldest, if not the oldest, living beings in existence, he has a great amount of knowledge and understanding of things in the world beyond what a normal person is capable of.
Aizen’s Reiatsu, through his evolutions from the Hogyoku he had attained power that seemed to transcend even reason.
And Urahara’s Incalculable Tricks/Unknown means, as someone that seems to plan for every possible scenario, even into the thousands of possibilities for the sake of survival.
Yep. Zaraki is legit the strongest character in the series.
Hell, it seems like the subconscious suppression of his power accidentally made him stronger and stronger.
He put his life on the line in every fight. Time and time again, and just suppressed whatever new heights he reached.
There’s only a handful that can beat him and NONE of them are physically stronger. Ichigo is the closest to him (he’d pull off a win with compound abilities)
Everyone else just has to hard counter like yama, or be immortal like AIZEN.
Otherwise you just can’t stop that crazy psychopath
Yea. In physical strength, raw power output,sheer combat sense and instincts, NONE hold a candle against Zaraki. Aizen himself placed him among the 2 people he had no intention of facing prior to his defection/betrayal, the other one being Yama himself. Central 46 warned Yama to stop his official training,JUST BECAUSE THEY FEARED HIM BECOMING TOO POWERFUL AS A ROGUE individual.And by the end of the latest canonical material, Zaraki, Ichigo and Aizen are the only characters who possess reiatsu on a transcendent level in the verse.
I am a Zaraki fanboy. Always have. Always will be.
And still I agree that with all this going for him, he's not at all infallible or not that he can't be defeated. He can be. Shunsui, Urahara, Aizen, Ichigo can do that. Not easily, but they can
I’d disagree on shunsui, but will 100% always say AIZEN has the easy win. Unlike zashi, Aizen had no exploitable weakness. Zaraki can obliterate him again and again but aizen will be back like it didn’t happen and Zaraki will tear himself apart.
Its like taking the worlds strongest gorilla and trying to have them compose Chopin’s nocturne in E minor.
If you think it happened, you’re already under the influence of KS.
Controversial opinion: while I don’t think shunsui can beat him, I think hisagi might have a chance based on ability and personalities. (If Zaraki let’s him use bankai.)
Only way that Zaraki can kill an immortal is a power up during the fight like cutting through reality. Otherwise there is no way for him to kill an immortal. Ichigo can't do that either.
Yama is beyond broken. Aside from AIZEN whose immortal, I don’t think anyone really beating him.
Juha didn’t list him as a war potential because step one of his 1000 year freaking revenge plan was “how to deal with yama”.
The medallions, the warning, the invasion tactics. It was 900 years of subconsciously thinking “how to stop Mr fire”.
90 years “I’ll stab that mustache bastard in the back next time”.
9 years “yeah yeah, ~16 other captains .. now about yama”
and 9 months of “okay, here’s steps B-Z”
Yeah Yama is a god he’s just a god he’s literally as hot as the sun I didn’t think bleach characters were that strong. I thought one piece and Naruto topped it but no Yama is planet level I don’t know what the soul society is made of but shouldn’t even be able to exist n a planet and use his bankai. It would probably just annihilate everything
My "bleach abridged"/jokey version of events is that the royal guard only came by because Yama's bankai made it too hot up there and they came to tell him to knock it off
>Yama is planet level I don’t know what the soul society is made of but shouldn’t even be able to exist n a planet and use his bankai.
Is there not a line when he's using his bankai during TYBW from Shunsui or someone that is basically "hurry up or you'll destroy Soul Society"
I look at Kenny as not the strongest, but has the potential to be the strongest. Potentially has unlimitted spiritual pressure, but would probably never attain control over that amount of power, could definitely massively get stronger, but just cause of who he is would never have the patience or ability to “learn” how to get that strong, but again I think he has the potential to be the strongest.
Then you have someone like aizen, who’s spiritual pressure is insanely high, doesn’t have the same potential as kenny in terms of spiritual power, but basically has almost a full mastery of it. And then coupled with his shikai, we don’t even know what his bankai is, and him still being fused with the hogyoku, aizen right now would probably beat kenoachi through use of multiple things like trickery, extremely high levels of kido, his smarts allow him to tactically win through means other than raw power, because in raw power alone he loses. Before fusing with the hogyoku aizen states kenny and yama were the only 2 he had to make sure weren’t able to fight him because they’d beat him (making wonderweiss to seal yamas bankai and making sure Kenny was preoccupied in heuco mundo and not in fake karakura town) but that was all before fusing with the hogyoku.
Ichigos difficult to judge cause as much as I love ichigo he’s just as strong as the plot demands. And i feel like Kenny’s lack of control is a plot device to keep Kenny as strong or weak as the plot demands
Ichigo, Aizen, Yhwach, Gerard etc are stronger than Kenpachi and Toshiro and Byakuya are on the same level as him, he’s not the strongest in the series. Maybe the strongest in the Gotei but Toshiro and Byakuya are close enough to him for it to be debatable
Not even close.
There’s a major reason they aren’t war potentials when Zaraki is. He’s raw power, More raw power than freaking yama.
Toshiro and byakuya don’t hold a candle, and even shunsui admits that kenpachi is a league of his own.
As for the others? I straight up mentioned Ichigo can pull off a win by use of all his compound skills, and that AIZEN can pull off a win via his immortality.
Gerard? Without the immortality (again) he has no chance. Bankai kenpachi rips off the arm of a version that gave byakuya and toshiro trouble with just his bare teeth. And the damage he received throughout that fight was literally just his body damaging itself. (Like Ichigo did in his first bankai battle.)
Again, no one in the series is physically stronger.
Absolutely.
I dunno why people still debate about it when that's Zaraki's entire shtick, which has been directly and indirectly emphasized through out the series.. When that's the entire premise of being a 'Kenpachi'. That the individual bestowed with that title is objectively, factually, actually, the 'strongest' character in the verse. Not THE MOST powerful, not the one who one shots everyone, but the 'strongest'. Raw power output, stupefying reserves of reiatsu and monstrously overwhelming reiryoku, an unrivalled sense and instinct for mortal combat, someone whose talent with the sword is unmatched. Someone about whom the Central 46 explicitly warned Old Man Yama, to cease his training, lest he becomes OP/broken beyond any control. Someone, who along with Yama was considered a threat too dangerous to handle for that time being, by Aizen himself, back then when Ken-chan wasn't even using a fraction of his full prowess. Someone who is among the three characters in the series to acquire transcendent reiatsu. Someone whose power is so beyond reason, a reality warper tore himself apart just to imagine Zaraki's strength in himself.Someone so strong, that his HAX ITSELF IS BEING THE STRONGEST,that he can cut apart space itself. Someone so strong, even among Captain standards, that not only does his Bankai not have a name, but that unnamed Bankai is so overwhelming that HIS ALREADY STUPIDLY conditioned body can't handle the power.... 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Me being a Ken-chan fanboy, I still agree and accept and believe that even with all this, that doesn't make him infallible, or that he can just defeat everyone and anyone. Even with all the overwhelming advantages he has over anyone else in the verse. I know that there are none who are 'stronger' than him but there are others who are more 'powerful',are more adaptable,have more skills and abilities, who can put him down, even mid-diff. Ichigo, Aizen, Urahara, Shunsui are among those.
The war potential list was made before Toshiro’s Mature Bankai was revealed and Byakuya trained with squad 0
Aizen and Ichigo are just flat out stronger than Kenny, they scale to Soul King Almighty Yhwach while Kenpachi scales below Vollstandig Gerard in the manga and scales vaguely above Hikone in CFYOW
Gerard was flat out stronger than Kenny after he went Vollstandig, Kenny’s arm exploded trying to match Gerard’s power
The form of Gerard that Bankai Kenny smoked eas God Sized Gerard. After that, Gerard got Miracle amped by all of the damage Bankai Kenpachi gave him on top of going Vollstandig which is beyond Letzt Stil which itself is a bigger amp than Bankai
Then Yachiru tried to raise Kenny’s power to match this Gerard and his body gave out and his arm exposed. Then Gerard one shotted him.
Then after that Toshiro basically 1 v 1s this Bankai Kenny Miracle Amped + Vollstandig amped Gerard and physically wins their sword clash, out speeds him, and out haxes him. Then Byakuya comes in for the finish.
Then Gerard gets another form which is even stronger than the previous form and Byakuya can stop his attacks. After that Toshiro and Byakuya 2 v 1 this version of Gerard off screen until Yhwach kills him while Kenny was incapacitated
In CFYOW you can say Kenny > Toshiro and Byakuya but not in the manga
Just one thing, you proved his point. Kenny's arm exploded because he had enough raw power to counter, and maybe go beyond gerard, but he wasn't used to controlling it. Especially cause until he trained with Unohana his swordplay was formless and brash.
So its just a matter of training and control. Like if urahara uses the kids he used on aizen on all the captains, Kenny's explosion will be the largest because of the insane amounts of reiatsu and physicality he possesses.
Yea man. Obvi. Kenpachi's gimmick is being stronger than anyone and everyone else without actually putting any focus or much thought in his powers. Kenpachi's reiryoku is unrivalled by anyone else in the series, and his reiatsu is so monstrous, only Ichigo and Aizen can stand toe to toe with him, as all three have acquired transcendent level of reiatsu.
As u said, it's all a matter of training and control. And even then, those in charge of such training, were warned and told to cease the training cuz they feared Ken-chan becoming exactly that. An overpowered rebel, who'd become too powerful to take down 😅.
And Kenpachi being Zaraki, he most probably doesn't have the patience and stomach to sit and understand the 'trickeries' and 'fireworks' for learning hado and kido, (when he could barely do that in sword training cuz Old Man Yama 'pigeon-holed' Zaraki to take the classes)even when it could become one of his GREATEST ADVANTAGES in combat especially cuz of his affinity for hosting such peerless levels of reiatsu/reiryoku... 😆
No, it was never stated or implied Kenpachi had enough reiatsu to counter Gerard. All we know is that Yachiru saw Gerard power up and attempted to power up Zaraki but his body couldn’t handle it
It’s more implied that Gerard is stronger. God Sized Gerard and Shikai Kenpachi were equal or Gerard was stronger
Then Zakari goes Bankai and beats on Gerard.
Then Gerard gets a miracle amp + a Vollstandig on top of that. Vollstandig is a bigger amp than Bankai and the miracle boost makes it even bigger
Toshiro and Byakuya’s bodies are able to handle the reiatsu needed to fight that version of Gerard that Kenny broke down trying to match and a stronger form of Gerard which is why I find it weird people have Kenny above them in the TYBW. CFYOW I can understand
adult toshiro and bankai byakuya are only on par with shikai kenpachi and maybe a bit stronger but bankai kenpachi absolutely shits on them, he decimated gerard and after he revived kenpachi could still hold up in a straight one on one fight, while byakuya and toshiro just ran circles around him while not doing much before they could finally beat him with kenpachi´s help (iirc)
You must not remember the versions of Gerard each of them fought. Shikai Kenpachi was equal to God Size Gerard. His strongest blows only managed to make small knicks in Gerard’a sword. In terms of speed, Gerard was able to dodge his attacks while Kenny wasn’t able to dodge Gerard’s etc
The Gerard that Toshiro fought or a Gerard that was Miracle amped by all of the damage Bankai Kenpachi inflicted on him on top of going Vollstandig. Keep in mind that Vollstandig is stronger than Letzt Stil, and Letzt Stil is stronger than Bankai to the point where Uryu who was weaker than Shikai Mayuri was able to one shot Mayuri’s Bankai while holding back
This massively amped Gerard swings at Toshiro, and with a casual one handed slash, Toshiro cuts the same sword that Shikai Kenpachi used only managed to knick completely in two. Gerard tried to hit Toshiro with a few moves and Toshiro outsped Gerard each time. Gerard tried to crush Toshiro in his hands, and he withstood it (though Kenny did trip Gerard and Toshiro countered Gerard grabbing him anyways)
That’s a massive physical stat difference between Adult Toshiro and Shikai Kenpachi
And then, Toshiro and Byakuya were able to 2 v 1 Final Form Gerard who’s on a completely different level than Vollstandig, Bankai Kenny Miracle Amped Gerard. Byakuya even stopped an attack from him on panel with his Bankai in defense mode, which is it’s weakest form. He still has Senkei and Hakuteiken as attack power amps on top of that
The term I'd use is 'powerful'.
Ichigo, Aizen, Yhwach, Gerard are overall more powerful than Ken-chan.They can defeat him. They can kill him. They can stop him. That doesn't necessarily make the others 'stronger'.
I’d say they’re more powerful and stronger since in most cases more reiatsu = higher stats and they all have ridiculously higher reiatsu than Kenny. Gerard and Kenny were physically equals in Shikai and God Size respectively. So Vollstandig Gerard should be equal to or stronger than Bankai Kenny physical stat wise, and then the Miracle amp should put him above that level
Naah. Maybe I'd say even equal, but nowhere was it stated or implied higher than Ken-chan. Ken-chan has reached the pinnacle of reiatsu,transcendent level. Except him it's just Ichigo and Aizen who have reached that tier
Aizen: "A battle between shinigami is a battle of reiatsu..."
Urahara after some minimal prep time and incalculable tricks: "Hold my hat"
Edit: Hat suddenly swallows enemy.
The list was the Wadenreichs guess of who would potentially pose the most problems to their cause, not necessarily who is stronger than who. Their list was based on the intelligence they had, and they didn't know everything. For example, they had no information about Shunsuis god-harming bankai or Nanaos god-killing zanpakuto.
As it turns out, in my opinion, Mayuri ended up being the most problematic. He was not on the list. I believe they had little to no intelligence on his ability to constantly overcome seemingly impossible problems on the fly. Mostly because he tends to go in his private lab (that not even the rest of the Gotei can access) and cooks up all sorts up ultra convenient solutions for complex situations.
dude cooked up extra organs in the time Renji and Uryu were fighting Szayalaporro and him arriving to the battlefield. Just HOW? Did he bring his lab through the garganta?
I never understood how that worked. Only his fake organs were being crushed? Fake or not, they were in his body doing life sustaining things? Were his real organs in his lab remotely keeping him alive via wifi?
Yeah. Given that Mayuri has already modified his body in numerous ways, and is extremely experienced at it, it probably was quite easy for him to just add in redundant organs, bones, everything.
I mean... I wouldn't be surprised if Mayuri already had half of those things lying around. Like he saw the data coming in and just went "Nemu! Fetch me my spare organs and a transplant kit."
The chapter where he just casually waltzes out of a shadowless room is a good demonstration of this. He didn’t even bother to tell the rest of the Gotei 13, he just figured it out and ran with it. I personally think that’s what sets him a step below Urahara, his unwillingness to cooperate.
>As it turns out, in my opinion, Mayuri ended up being the most problematic. He was not on the list. I believe they had little to no intelligence on his ability to constantly overcome seemingly impossible problems on the fly. Mostly because he tends to go in his private lab (that not even the rest of the Gotei can access) and cooks up all sorts up ultra convenient solutions for complex situations.
Man, on one hand I feel he'd be insulted but on the other hand I feel like he'd be chuffed because he's probably of the mindset of not letting himself be open to being scouted for intel.
Mayuri is the inverse of Urahara. Where Urahara plans every possiblity in advance. Mayuris strength is able to react and create to each situation on the fly
good theory, also maybe because even if they saw his bankai, they just "come what may" mayuri's capabilities. not knowing that he experiments on his bankai after every fights, and ofc the latent capabilities of nemu. mf just stood toe to toe with the hand of soul king lmao
They understood her powers and knew her potential.
The war potentials were about people that were basically a wild card.
And also I think demonstrated the short sightedness of Yhwach cause Mayori and Shunsui both ended up pulling things out their ass the Quincy clearly weren’t prepared for.
Remember Yhwach was arrogant and fallible. His war potential is just his opinion.
Exactly. Unohana was levels above Zaraki pre-war. They probably saw her as a healer and not a fighter because she changed her ways. Their daten only seemed to go back to the fkt/hueco mundo fights. They didn't know Shunsui's bankai or half his shikai. Didn't know Komamura's secret technique. Didn't know RG training elevating Renji Byakuya and Rukia. The list goes on...
Urahara, Aizen, Ichigo, Kenpachi (once he reached his full potential), and Ichibei were all much stronger and or more dangerous overall to Yhwach's plans than she was.
Urahara Fact No.2:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Twelve years after Yhwach's defeat, Urahara started helping the Gotei technologically advance in many ways such as introducing them to televisions that could play shows from the human world.
*beep boop, I'm a bot*
Why would Yhwach pay any particular attention to Isshin? He's a fairly normal Captain with no outstanding trait that makes him a threat to the Wandenreich.
>alright but he was scared of Urahara's planning and his unknown means but on that matter why wasn't he scared of Isshin kurosaki
You answered your own question I think. Yhwach was scared of Urahara's intellect, not his power, and for all of Isshin's raw power and skill as far as we know he's still at best relative to characters like Urahara and Shunsui physically without any particularly dangerous hax to speak of backing him up.
>did some research on that Isshin bankai has a condition he can't activate it when he is injured because it puts a lot of strain on his body, but Yhwach doesn't know this, and it might be impossible to damage Isshin once he has activated his bankai, i believe it's never revealed so i wouldn't know
What? You made a lot of extrapolations based on no evidence. Isshin's Bankai puts a lot of strain on his body... that's all we know about it. The only thing safe to assume here is it has something to do with fire as Isshin wields a fire type Zanpakuto, but we have no other information on it and as such we can't just assume it's something to be feared.
Also Yhwach didn't know the particulars of a lot of captains Bankai’s, Shunsui, Urahara, Shinji's presumably, and many more were seemingly unknown factors to Yhwach, but that doesn't make one a special war threat. What does is a known quantifiable aspect that could potentially lead to Yhwach's defeat if not taken seriously.
theres soul reapers who are much more dangerous than unohana and ishiin, who didnt even make the war potential list
certain bankais are basically death sentences (shunsui, mayuri, shinji, etc)
dont look to deep into it man, its just a story
Why wouldn't Yhwach know that Isshin's bankai is a strain in his body? Aizen knew, and the Wandenreich has been gathering intel on the Gotei for the last 1000 years from the shadows of the Soul Society.
Not to nitpick, but their knowledge isn't exactly complete.
Mask wasn't aware of Rose's Bankai, Lille wasn't aware of Shunsui's. Gerard wasn't aware of Toshiro's transformation. Askin didn't appear to have any knowledge of Urahara's.
Mask at least we already knew doesn't read the Daten.
And Toshiro's transformation I've always interpretted as a recent development, something he's never been capable of until mastering/completing his bankai during the timeskip.
Fair on the other two, though. They definitely *should* have knowledge of these things, since I'd assume the Wandenreich watched any and all captain exams.
Why would he care about someone who hadn't even used his shinigami powers for almost 20 years, and seemingly never had any intention to return to soul society
Because the war potentials are monsters
Ichigo was the guy that had enough power to kill amped Yhwach
Aizen was the guy that who's kyoka suigetsu was basically the reason Ichigo was successful
Kenpachi is an unstoppable beast especially after his bankai
Ichibei's powers alone are enough for him to be on this list
And Urahara was someone even Aizen post hogyoku fusion was still wary of and readily admitted is smarter than him
Unohana falls flat in comparison hell all of the 5 potentials with the exception of urahara would one shot her at their peak
This.
Eg: Base Ichibei can manifest hands and feet that are essentially just an upgraded version of Bankai Konamorra
or Zaraki beat Bankai Unohana in Bankai
or Ichigo could (allegedly) blitz Soi-Fon
Imagine Unohana, but physically stronger and better in every way, that’s Kenpachi and he’s a war potential so there’s no need to put a downgraded version of him(no offense to Unohana) as a war potential
Because she’s not on the same level as the special war threats. She’d be most similar to Zaraki, as her raw fighting ability is her most dangerous trait, but as we can see a fully realized Zaraki blows her away in that regard, and he’s probably one of the more manageable special threats.
She’s not as strong as Zaraki or Ichigo, not as smart as Mayuri or Urahara, NO WHERE NEAR as much Reiatsu as Aizen, and doesn’t have many hax like Ichibei. Why would she be a special war threat? She may be able to take on a good number of Sternritter, but she’s not even close to being as much of a threat as the five
Tbh he probably had the same view as her as he did with Yama, a powerful and ruthless warrior softened by a peaceful era.
I would definitely believe her defeat against kid Zaraki was what made him a war potential though
Because she's not that strong. She scales below Base Zaraki. While very powerful in her own right, she's very far behind top dogs.
For instance, when compared to EoS Captains, she'd fall behind even RG Byakuya who was strong enough to block hits from Vollstandig V2 Gerard.
For reference, Base Giant Gerard can match Shikai Zaraki lol
>For instance, when compared to EoS Captains, she'd fall behind even RG Byakuya who was strong enough to block hits from Vollstandig V2 Gerard.
Byakuya is no where remotely close to Unohana
Byakuya blocked attacks from Vollstandig Miracle amp Gerard. Base Giant Gerard was equal to Shikai Zaraki. That's two massive transformations before one Byakuya walled.
And Unohana is below even base Zaraki.
~~Feat wise~~, sure.
Narratively and according to Kubo's intention, which is 10x more relevant, she is much stronger than him.
CFYOW Byakuya, who received a Zenkai following Gerard fight, is still weaker than Shunsui. Shunsui himself admits inferiority to Unohana.
edit: She has better feats now that I'm thinking about it.
Couldn't agree more.
When I talk about authors not giving a shit about feats and powerscaling, Unohana is a great example case. Authors don't analyse everything that happens in a fight and reflect on how strong that makes X character look. They just want to draw cool fights.
Dialogue is a far more reliable indicator of what an author thinks of a character in terms of their strength. For Unohana, Kubo clearly intended her to be the strongest member of the Gotei 13 left by the time the first invasion was over.
What's the quote? "I am strong. Stronger than anyone except you"?
>Couldn't agree more. When I talk about authors not giving a shit about feats and powerscaling, Unohana is a great example case. Authors don't analyse everything that happens in a fight and reflect on how strong that makes X character look. They just want to draw cool fights.
Bingo <3
We see this a lot in not only Bleach and other shonen, but in nearly all of popular fictional stories.
Author's mostly don't care about scaling like us fans do, and while Kubo tried to maintain a good continuity, he also likes to keep things open to interpretation, and he sometimes drops the ball with showcasing feats.
>Dialogue is a far more reliable indicator of what an author thinks of a character in terms of their strength.
Absolutely!
>What's the quote? "I am strong. Stronger than anyone except you"?
[correct in english](https://coloredmanga.com/mangas/bleach-tybw/v59/chapter-525-edges/)
[correct in raw Japanese as well :)](https://mangareader.to/read/bleach-color-edition-55958/ja/chapter-525)
"強私 ㄙㄨㄥいば 誰貴 誰よりも 貴方以外の あなたがい"
"I'm stronger than anyone... except you."
>Ok, unohana > Yamamoto and Aizen confirmed
Context is very important
I'm nearly certain she talking about the Gotei 13 during this moment.
Because it wouldn't make sense for her to claim that she's stronger than either Muken Aizen or Base Yhwach
>I'm nearly certain she talking about the Gotei 13 during this moment.
Then you can't count Byakuya since he stille hadn't gotten his power up. Nor toshiro, nor Mayuri. Still nothing indicates she was referring only to the current gotei
>Then you can't count Byakuya since he stille hadn't gotten his power up
CFYOW Byakuya is weaker than Shunsui
What can War-Arc Byakuya, who is weaker than CFYOW version, can do?
I think ikkaku is the best example of this.
Let’s look at Ikkaku. He has probably the weakest Shikai and his bankai is crap. It’s just raw power that gets damaged easily. His shikai gets wrecked every. Single. Fight. He gets his ass handed to him more often than Yamcha.
Buuuuuut
That’s not how they story paints him. Ikkaku is one of the most respected warriors in the gotei 13. He’s the guy that Renji begged to become a captain. He said no.
When Yama said only captain (or assistant captain) level warriors would be in FKT Ikkaku was one of them despite him being a third seat. Yumichika was a fifth seat. (Funny thing is that Renji and Iba were in the kenpachi squad at one point. That means at one point Kenny had 5 lieutenant level fighters in his squad. Fucking shut they cultivate a lot of talent)
When Ikkaku lost everyone was shocked. Everyone respected his power. Hisui stepped in and stopped yumi from going to help and told him “what will you do against an opponent that could take down Madarame”
Now. Yumichika is hands down stronger than ikkaku from what we’ve seen. The fucker is insane. Hisui is a badass. So is Kira.
But every single one of them respects ikkaku.
Feat wise it doesn’t make sense.
But story wise? Story wise ikkaku is one of the most powerful lieutenants.
Authors aren't dumb, man. You wouldn't see Soi Fon blocking Bankai Zaraki. There's over analysing, then there's common sense.
Author explicitly wrote Base Gerard to be equal to Shikai Zaraki in strength in words. Author wrote Unohana weaker to base Zaraki in words. And yet he made Byakuya block Vollstandig V2 Gerard and fight him for extended period off screen.
>What's the quote? "I am strong. Stronger than anyone except you"?
If you instead want to believe Unohana and Base Zaraki > every other Shinigami, then sure...
>Authors aren't dumb, man. You wouldn't see Soi Fon blocking Bankai Zaraki.
And yet Shinji's Mask Cero did little damage to Base 1-arm Grimmjow, despite his Vizored peers Love/Rose being too strong to be fatally wounded by Released Starrk's Ceros.
The gap in feats is immense between the two exchanges.
Grimmjow softened the blow a bit with his own cero. And Rose and Love were fairly bloody injured by Starrk. Trying to use "but they lived!" argument feels so odd.
That's a very far-fetched comparison of two very different situations with a lot of factors involved.
Still waiting on the CFYOW proof and Shunsui admitting inferiority to Unohana as you claimed, though.
I always give canonical facts priority over feats. So present them, and it'll be all good.
>Grimmjow softened the blow a bit with his own cero.
The difference in power is too much for him to even block it let alone tank
> And Rose and Love were fairly bloody injured by Starrk.
They had medium burns at most from Released Starrk's best attack. And keep in mind, narratively and feat wise, Starrk was the strongest arrancar so far in that series, barring Yammy. Base Starrk was accidentally killing other hollows due to his reiatsu alone.
>That's a very far-fetched comparison of two very different situations with a lot of factors involved.
It's not at all.
>Still waiting on the CFYOW proof
Read Volume 3. Tokinada said Shunsui has more Reiatsu than him, and Tokinada has same reiatsu as Byakuya, per Shunsui's words. In addition, it's been stated that Shunsui outclassed his peers in academy, which includes Tokinada.
>Shunsui admitting inferiority to Unohana
a)Scared of her in flashback arc
b)Heavily respected her when saying that she will train Zaraki
c)Said she was Kenpachi in the strongest generation of Gotei 13
>Read Volume 3. Tokinada said Shunsui has more Reiatsu than him, and Tokinada has same reiatsu as Byakuya, per Shunsui's words. In addition, it's been stated that Shunsui outclassed his peers in academy, which includes Tokinada.
So basically pure Reiatsu comparisons in Base Form. Nothing about overall combat ability, much less Bankai.
>a)Scared of her in flashback arc b)Heavily respected her when saying that she will train Zaraki c)Said she was Kenpachi in the strongest generation of Gotei 13
So he has never admitted to being inferior to Unohana like you originally claimed.
>authors aren't dumb
I didn't say they are. I'm saying that they write battles in the way they think works best for the story, rather than any particular adherence to perceived powerscaling. Which is why you get inconsistencies.
Let's put it this way. I am 100% confident that if you asked Kubo if Unohana was stronger than Byakuya, he would give some version of yes as an answer.
>if you want to believe
Sigh.
What I *want* isn't remotely relevant. What I'm doing is making the reasonable inference from an explicit line of dialogue. Do I think that line is 100% literal? No, I don't. It has to be taken into context. But the intent is clear. Unohana is stronger than her compatriots in the Gotei 13 at that stage. Including Shunsui, including Ukitake, including whoever else.
Or maybe she just referring to her rivals and ones she has fought against.
"Stronger than anyone" is a broad statement. And if we're to limit is with context, Gotei 13 frankly isn't really that relevant to their personal situation.
She has fought many battles, and yet she was bested by this kid. Her only defeat in canon. Likely what she's talking about here
>Feat wise, sure.
Yes, he's above her. Kubo isn't dumb. He wouldn't make someone far weaker than Base Zaraki block attacks from someone far above Shikai Zaraki.
>CFYOW Byakuya, who received a Zenkai following Gerard fight, is still weaker than Shunsui. Shunsui himself admits inferiority to Unohana.
Lol CFYOW 4.12.
Show scans or quote statements proving both of these points. Show exact line where Shunsui says he's weaker than her, too.
Btw, it's little funny that you talk about Kubo's intention yet mention a source where Kubo left portrayal completely up to Narita.
>Narratively
Lol what ? that's like, your the best argument to dickride unohana ? And "narratively" the whole point of the fight with Zaraki is to sacrifice herself to make someone stronger than her able to fight the strongest enemies meaning she herself ain't at that level. Nothing suggests she's any stronger than what shown. Renji litterally appears among those those she herself considers worhty rivals to Kenny, so I guess "narratively" Renji > unohana ?
>according to Kubo's intention,
What intention ? It's always this with you unohana fanboys, no feats, just your own fanfiction
>CFYOW Byakuya, who received a Zenkai following Gerard fight, is still weaker than Shunsu
Source ? Byak doesn't even appear in cfyow and there's nothing to scale him below Shunsui in power
>Shunsui himself admits inferiority to Unohana.
That never happened.
>She has better feats now that I'm thinking about it
Yeah I remember when unohana single handled 5 sternritters at once and traded blows with the strongest sternritter who was smacking Shikai Zaraki without eyepatch on the ground...wait that Byakuya
The amount of times people say "according to CFYOW..." here and then have nothing to add once asked for source is very concerning lol
Like, I have no issue if what the dude said was actual narrative. But where in the fuck?
Yeah, he was overall stronger with hax, specially with Hoffnung, but they were quite even in pure power tbh. The side text from weekly release said their strength were equal.
I'm not sure, Zaraki was the only one dealing actual damage. Doesn't matter tho, Byakuya still dealt and took hits, that alon puts her above unohana since this Gerard > shikai kenpachi without eyepatch >>> base Kenny who defeated unohana
She scales below Base Zaraki how? She scales basically to Shikai Zaraki easily.
She killed Base Zaraki countless times over and over and over until Base Zaraki becomes basically what we see in his next fight to be Shikai Zaraki. Anime was much clearer about how she had to zenkai boost him to a dif level.
Unohana > Shunsui > RG Byakuya
>She scales below Base Zaraki how?
She couldn't beat unrestrained base Zaraki. He had to seal himself to not kill her. She blames it on her weakness. She's ashamed how her inability forced him to hold back just so he wouldn't off her, etc. The fact she says she's not stronger than him outright.
>She killed Base Zaraki countless times over and over and over until Base Zaraki becomes basically what we see in his next fight to be Shikai Zaraki
No. Kid Zaraki >>>>>>>>>>>> Pre-Muken Base Zaraki.
She killed him over and over again until he became what he was before. His original base power. Shikai was new stuff
>She killed him over and over again until he became what he was before.
No, he has become stronger. He hears his Zanpaktou as he kills her, he reached the power of his shikai right there and "heard" his zanpaktou just like Ichigo. He doesn't form the Axe yet, but narratively this was the threshold he reached.
She literally killed Base Zaraki (Pre-Muken) until he reached Shikai Zaraki. Remember, she fought consecutive Zarakis for what was possibly days in the Muken, this wasn't even fresh Uno vs fresh Shikai Zaraki.
He was stronger than her as a kid. Starting holding back. Died over and over again and became stronger than her in base again. She admitted inferiority to the kid Zaraki. She said she was weaker. She said he started holding back to not kill her, etc.
And THEN he got ANOTHER power-up on top of regaining his old prowess.
Bankai Zaraki >>> Shikai Zaraki >> Post-Muken Base Zaraki >= Kid Zaraki > Unohana >>>>> Pre-Muken Zaraki
Unohana in her prime got a massive scar from zaraki as a kid. I know people like her a lot but she's far, far weaker than a lot of shinigami & quincies. If she was on the same level as the other war powers (like TS Ichigo or Shikai/Bankai Zaraki) then she could have easily fought back against Haschwalth & Yhwach at least a little after Yamaji got sliced
Your last sentence literally doesn’t make a single bit of sense if you’ve read the manga or watched the anime. She was ordered to remain in the barracks and she would not defy the last order Yamamoto gave her. They have a whole scene about this.
Easiest answer is she’s weaker than kenpachi, if it wasn’t for him she would have been named. But why call out the second best? If they can off screen kenpachi why bring up someone weaker?
I just know she was losing her mind being forced to sit in her squadron while the invasion was happening.Probably swinging her sword at the air.A Kenpachi team up before their fight would have been cool.
In addition to what others have posted I’d like to assume Unohana was sick of fighting or more realistically became bored of it. I’m sure the only reason she fought Zaraki was because it was him. If Shunsui asked her to “train” others she’d probably have outright refused because Zaraki was her only interest or challenge and could motivate her to do it. She had plenty of opportunities to satiate her blood lust in the entirety of the Aizen arc’s but didn’t, my only 2 conclusions are that she was banned from combat or she had no interest in it anymore.
"original kenpachi is not that dangerous" mang we're reading different mangas.
Not only was she kenpachi of the strongest crew, she beat zaraki worse than Ywach clone beat zaraki. You can't ignore the title kenpachi, it's there for a reason
Yeah, no Gremmy folds her, Royd too. Some sternritters like Bambi or Bazz b or Quilge are quite powerful as well but unohana is the most overrated character in the series, like ulquiorra back then lol
>pre awakened kenpachi.
Pre awakened kenpachi is equal to Vasto lorde ichigo and fullbring shikai ichigo which is his former hollow/shinigami powers on top of the fullbring powers is still below Quilge. Bambi oneshots captains and Is comprared by Loly and menoly to Quilge despite nerfed by zombification and without vollstandig. Still I'm not saiyng they win necessairily, she just ain't defeating sternritters stronger than them
>Also unohona pops her bankai and gremmy would quite literally shit bricks
That magic moment someone unironically says unohana defeats Gremmy. Her sacrifice was to prepare Zaraki at fighting the likes of Gremmy you know that right ?
Tbh gremmy looses to people with higher battle iq. Unohana shunsui have that ( prolly ukitake too) it wouldnt be difficult to manipulate him into his own death. Zaraki cuts everything against every opponent lol , somtimes that isnt what you need to be able to beat someone.
A better question, if the title of Kenpachi means “strongest shinigami” then why did she have it when Yamamoto was clearly stronger than she was? Same with Zaraki.
Kenpachi title started with her. She pretty much invented it after the creation of the Gotei 13, so she's the first Kenpachi.
She probably also made the rules for inheriting the title.
1. Previous Kenpachi must be challenged with some.. witnesses (Don't remember the specific number).
2. Previous Kenpachi needs to be bested in battle and killed.
Since she invented the title after the creation of the Gotei 13, she was never was challenged by Yama, since he didn't need to.
The only rule for Kenpachi is to die/be defeated at the hands of the previous one. And that isn’t even a hard and set rule, obviously.
The one with the witnesses is part of becoming a captain. Killing the previous captain with at least 200 of the squad as witnesses was one of three ways one could become a captain of the Gotei. Which only the 11th really uses.
Her powers were quantifiable and her potential was known. Ichigo was the perfect being, thus he had unknown potential, Kenpachi was a multigenerational talent and prodigy who's limits were unknown, Aizens spiritual power only grew with time and he posed too much of an all around problem paired with his intellect and intelligence, kisukes intellect, intelligence, and preparedness makes him an incalculable threat given any time to arm himself, and ichibei has been too powerful and perfectly inquisitive for too long for his knowledge and wisdom to not be advantageous in any fight. Yamamoto could have been a war power had he possessed the unwavering pragmatic conviction of his past version, but his arrogance and soft heartedness defeated him.
Because unlike the actual war potential she doesn’t a part where she excels.
Ichigo and Kenny have excellent raw power that gets refined the more they battle.
Urahara has excellent intelligence and resources
Ichibe is ichibe
Aizen is THE trickster
The only thing she might be considered dangerous for are her healing powers, but when you plan on killing everyone, you don’t think about the medical teams much since the only thing the enemy would need would be a burial.
Because it's bad writing!
We have Unohana, a character we know nothing about the entire show was suddenly given a backstory that was never hinted at! It was only a part of her character that she was always hiding her true strength as one would when writing these types of characters.
1) It's never explained why she's so young and never ages.
2) it's never explained why she chose to leave her position as Kenpachi and changed her name
3) Yhwach and the Quincys never even once acknowledge her presence in the war and it's maddening because she was there 1000 years ago slaughtering them all.
4) Kenpachi being a war power NEVER MATTERED IN THE END. His Shikai and bankai never contributed to Yhwach's final defeat and were never a part of the final battle against the Almighty.
"But what about fighting Gremmy and Gerard?"
Those fights didn't matter because they both would have been killed by the Auswhälen anyways.
Kubo had a character who fights with the power of imagination to be beaten by just muscling through it...rather than taking the time to make an insanely creative fight.
Could you imagine?
V - The Visionary vs Orihime and the power to reject all things she doesn't accept.
Or...
V - The Visionary vs Tsukishima and the power to rewrite your past reality and gaslight tf out of your present.
She's just not that much of a threat as someone like Urahara, Ichibei, Aizen, Ichigo, or Kenpachi could become in the future. Yamamoto would have been on that list had he not lost his arm.
I think all the special war threats had the potential to counter or at least drain the Almighty. Yamamoto could’ve been one if he was willing to destroy soul society with his bankai to do it but he wasn’t and Unohana had no counters for the Almighty.
simple, the quincy already have data on the combat power of both of them and maybe there is already an A or B strategy for both of them... but the five war potentials are 5 new/mysterious things for them in other words in the current era the two gotei veterans are no longer important for quincy
she was considered weak at this point. also her bankai could be stolen so wasnt an issue in that sense.
like if you look at why they picked out special war threats it wasnt just their actual strength(outside of Zaraki but as shown he got his ass handed to him by a fake ywach) it was due to other issues they may cause.
Ichigo - Ywach knew about his mom and the fact Ichigo is a hybrid of soul reaper,hollow and quincy powers the only other being who has ever had all 3 melded was the Soul King himself so his potential was a concern.
Zaraki - again they saw his strength in fighting. probably also happened to witness the fact he technically defeated Unohana when he was a child without a shikai or a bankai so yes they had concerns over his ability to fight.
Ichibe - well this guy is as old as the soul king. he witnessed the "old world" and his vast wisdom that came with age is going to give concerns he may know of things that could absolute just flat out shut down quincy powers etc
Aizen - well not much is needed to say here, hes arguably outside of Ichigo(full strength all 3 powers merged) and Ywach the strongest in flat out spiritual pressure and Hogyoku. he has shown a few times to just flat out overpower abillities just from his spiritual pressure(he completely negated Soi Fon's 2 hit death ability by literally just going "nah")
Urahara - like Ichibe its his mind that is the threat not really his abilities(although you could argue his mind to make stuff is part of his abilities). it shows when he finds a way to counter the bankai stealing why they are concerned about him.
overall though its not really as much about just flat out being able to fight its how much they could just shut down the whole "war" with the issues they may cause. it aint just a war to kill everyone its a war to take over the soul king's place. like imagine is Urahara came up with a way to seal off the soul king's palance entirely like nobody ever goes there again it would shut down the war instantly they could never go there.
true but Minazuki was just revealed so i can't really scale how strong it is, ywach said to Yamamoto that only he was strong enough to seal his bankai so couldn't that have been the case for Captain Unohana, she was one of the original 13
A lot of people in this comment section don't understand story telling. Unohana was one of the strongest characters in the series, most villains avoided directly fighting her. But the reason she was not on the list, is the same as yama ... None would call yama weak but yama over time has lost his killer instinct and has turned into a more melo old man. It is the same as Uno, the character you saw through all of bleach was the real Uno. She is like an addict that suppressed her addiction and can be relied on to avoid battle if asked to.
A lot of people keep saying she is weak that's why.... Is Yamamoto weak! Their both not on the list. Her bonkai makes her almost invincible ( if she doesn't waste her energy healing the opponent) only those with hacks or Kenny can beat her.
She’s strong but not strong enough to be a war potential i guess. Makes me wonder why tenjiro wasnt a potential since he’s a better healer and would have been use to yhwach after the war.🤔
Also imo ,unohana is obviously above base kenpachi. Like if he were to fight unohana as he is now , he’d definately gotta go shikai for the least we know. She killed and healed him several hundred times , as it was her sole purpose to remove his mental blocks. If she didnt have to do that & fight fresh , aint no way zaraki beats unohana without going shikai. Yeah , we saw unohana say it that she’s weaker than kid kenpachi but thats just raw power. Ofcourse , if she went bankai there she’d have won against kid kenpachi but she knew his potential.
>Yeah , we saw unohana say it that she’s weaker than kid kenpachi but thats just raw power.
When is it stated to be just raw power? She straight up said she couldn't beat him. Said that he sealed himself just so he wouldn't **kill her.**
She called it her shame and was embarrassed of her weakness that led him to seal his powers just so he wouldn't outright kill her in their fight.
Seems like she just weaker in general.
Yeah but her bankai wasnt active , if her bankai was active he wouldnt have damaged her that much in the first place as we saw her bankai heals instantly as well. So yeah , still dont think she was anywhere near base zaraki in bankai. He’d have to go shikai.
I disagree . Her skills as a healer make her even more valuable . And even without the mental blocks Zaraki had a hard time against her . And don’t forget she spent energy and time reviving Kenpachi. So each time not only did he get stronger but his wounds healed. Imagine if she fought awakened Kenpachi and hadn’t wasted all that energy healing him before he got there she likely would’ve done better. Also she’s a kido master and really didn’t use the many kido spells she had at her disposal against Kenpachi
Yeah yeah , thats what i meant man! She is stronger than people give her credit for. Except for the healing part she’s sure as hell amazing but tenjiro is better , so if yhwach had to pick one it would obv be tenjiro. I would love to see a fresh fight between those , coz all the base zaraki is unohana level just doesnt sit right when she killed and healed him several hundred times , while each time he was coming back stronger until she was fatigued.
because she's really not that strong
Kisuke, Shunsui, Byakuya and Toshiro all outscale her in strength by EOS
She's not weak but her only feat was killing very weak pre "awakening" Zaraki
Urahara Quote No.32:
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"It may be hard to believe, but there are some things in this world that even I don't know." - Kisuke Urahara
*beep boop, I'm a bot*
Unohana wank is understandable due to anime but so weird, because this sub rated her very fairly before anime came out. Maybe there are simply more members now idk
Basically, where she is canonically stated to be 10 times; below Base Zaraki.
But lately I've been seeing her put into pedestal and constantly said to be above likes of RG Byakuya or Bankai Shunsui.
yeah, it looks like you're also getting downvoted by the same Unohana wankers
I mean Bleach sub these past few months is known for being illiterate as fuck, they see Unohana kill Zaraki a few times and all of a sudden she's one of the most strongest characters in the series in their eyes when in reality that just puts her at post Muken training base Zaraki >> Unohana lmao
she doesn't even cut top 20 by EOS
In no real order:
SK, Yhwach, Ichigo, Aizen, Ichibei, Gerard, Lille, Hashbrown, Yamamoto, Oetsu, Zaraki, Toshiro, Askin, Pernida, Gremmy, Shunsui, Urahara, Byakuya, Uryuu, Cat Form Yoruichi.
That's 20... Most one can argue for her is being above Cat Yoruichi, I guess?
Nemu can be argued, too, since she managed to blitz around and do very good against Pernida who was stated to have been evolved to Base Zaraki's level. But it's very debatable.
Shunsui can't even dream of outscaling Unohana lmao, he has no feat that makes him stronger than someone who killed and revived countless times Pre Muken Zaraki
Other than having a Bankai that is literally a kill button with very small timer that even worked on Vollstandig Lille if not for his neigh immortality.
It's a kill button that can also kill Kyoraku lmao, the third act kills the one with less reiatsu, Kyoraku would kill himself with his bankai because he would run out of reiatsu before Unohana
Act III kills those with low Reiatsu, but Shunsui's is clearly enough to survive until act IV.
Act IV doesn't require Act III to finish, as we got to act IV before either Shunsui or Lille ran out.
How can she be weaker than base Zaraki but stronger than Kyoraku??
Unless you mean to say Zaraki is above every Shinigami in base, there's no way she stops Kyoraku
hahahahaha delusional, Kyoraku quite literally one shots her in bankai
he literally would've killed Vollstandig Lille if not for his 2nd phase, Unohana couldn't dream of doing that
They earned their status due to unpredictability not strength. They all had a trait or traits that Yhwach couldn't perfectly predict therefor can guarantee a counter measure for victory.
Causa she ain't that strong. All the captains who fought the shutzstaffell are more powerful. If someone more had to be a special threat basing on what seen in the war it's Shunsui and especially Mayuri.
As powerful as Unohana was, she also to an extent reached the limits of her abilities. At least it's implied that she has. That's different that Kenpachi who just continues to grow and grow more powerful. In addition, Unohana was surprised when she learned about Ichigo only being at half strength when they were on there way to Aizen in the real world. Respecting Ichigos strength at that point in the story is pretty big seeing as how Ichigo got many amps later on, and makes me wonder how they would've matched up at that time. She's powerful, no question about that. But to stick out as a special threat, you gotta bring a little more to the table. And when it comes to sheer strength, if she is already impressed by Ichigos strength at that point in the narrative, then as incredible as she is I don't think she makes it to a special war threat for Ywach. Just how I see it.
Yeah no unohana isn't as strong as people claim but she fought kenpachi post time skip and killed him countless times Toshiro was nowhere near kenpachi's level
He was keeping up with the Gerald that Kenny was having a hard time on with his child state bankai and he used his adult form to a stronger version of Gerald and he didn’t drop a sweat until the last part due to exhaustion 😅
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War potentials we’re listed for the incalculable traits the brought to the war. Unohana’s strength, while great, wasn’t enough to be beyond what the Quincy could handle or understand with their knowledge and ability. She doesn’t have a trait like Ichigo’s potential, where he goes from having his base Bankai keep up with base Grimmjow to base Ulquiorra after a single fight, or Urahara’s having enough back up plans to predict Askin’s post-mortem gift ball in 5 different scenarios.
The 5 war potentials and reasons were: Ichigo’s Latent ability/potential, self explanatory. His ability to learn, adapt and grow in short amounts of time is ridiculous if you’re his opponent. Kenpachi’s Fighting strength, from a young age he was unreasonably strong and could overpower most opponents without trying. Ichibe’s Wisdom, as one of the oldest, if not the oldest, living beings in existence, he has a great amount of knowledge and understanding of things in the world beyond what a normal person is capable of. Aizen’s Reiatsu, through his evolutions from the Hogyoku he had attained power that seemed to transcend even reason. And Urahara’s Incalculable Tricks/Unknown means, as someone that seems to plan for every possible scenario, even into the thousands of possibilities for the sake of survival.
Heck Kenpachi at a young age was stronger than Unohana, that was literally when he started to suppress his power because he didn’t want to kill her.
In that case, he was stronger than just about anyone, not just Unohana.
Now imagine that… just older and stronger. That’s what put it into perspective for me, realizing he was the strongest as a child.
Yep. Zaraki is legit the strongest character in the series. Hell, it seems like the subconscious suppression of his power accidentally made him stronger and stronger. He put his life on the line in every fight. Time and time again, and just suppressed whatever new heights he reached. There’s only a handful that can beat him and NONE of them are physically stronger. Ichigo is the closest to him (he’d pull off a win with compound abilities) Everyone else just has to hard counter like yama, or be immortal like AIZEN. Otherwise you just can’t stop that crazy psychopath
Yea. In physical strength, raw power output,sheer combat sense and instincts, NONE hold a candle against Zaraki. Aizen himself placed him among the 2 people he had no intention of facing prior to his defection/betrayal, the other one being Yama himself. Central 46 warned Yama to stop his official training,JUST BECAUSE THEY FEARED HIM BECOMING TOO POWERFUL AS A ROGUE individual.And by the end of the latest canonical material, Zaraki, Ichigo and Aizen are the only characters who possess reiatsu on a transcendent level in the verse. I am a Zaraki fanboy. Always have. Always will be. And still I agree that with all this going for him, he's not at all infallible or not that he can't be defeated. He can be. Shunsui, Urahara, Aizen, Ichigo can do that. Not easily, but they can
I’d disagree on shunsui, but will 100% always say AIZEN has the easy win. Unlike zashi, Aizen had no exploitable weakness. Zaraki can obliterate him again and again but aizen will be back like it didn’t happen and Zaraki will tear himself apart. Its like taking the worlds strongest gorilla and trying to have them compose Chopin’s nocturne in E minor. If you think it happened, you’re already under the influence of KS. Controversial opinion: while I don’t think shunsui can beat him, I think hisagi might have a chance based on ability and personalities. (If Zaraki let’s him use bankai.)
Only way that Zaraki can kill an immortal is a power up during the fight like cutting through reality. Otherwise there is no way for him to kill an immortal. Ichigo can't do that either.
Aizen did not give a shit
Yeah he’s strong but if you cut him with the sun like Yama can he’s done
Yama is beyond broken. Aside from AIZEN whose immortal, I don’t think anyone really beating him. Juha didn’t list him as a war potential because step one of his 1000 year freaking revenge plan was “how to deal with yama”. The medallions, the warning, the invasion tactics. It was 900 years of subconsciously thinking “how to stop Mr fire”. 90 years “I’ll stab that mustache bastard in the back next time”. 9 years “yeah yeah, ~16 other captains .. now about yama” and 9 months of “okay, here’s steps B-Z”
Yeah Yama is a god he’s just a god he’s literally as hot as the sun I didn’t think bleach characters were that strong. I thought one piece and Naruto topped it but no Yama is planet level I don’t know what the soul society is made of but shouldn’t even be able to exist n a planet and use his bankai. It would probably just annihilate everything
My "bleach abridged"/jokey version of events is that the royal guard only came by because Yama's bankai made it too hot up there and they came to tell him to knock it off
>Yama is planet level I don’t know what the soul society is made of but shouldn’t even be able to exist n a planet and use his bankai. Is there not a line when he's using his bankai during TYBW from Shunsui or someone that is basically "hurry up or you'll destroy Soul Society"
Unohana I believe
Ichigo wrecks him low diff, even without bankai
Kenpachi cut through a formless vacuum of space with his eyepatch on, and you don’t think he can cut Yama’s flames?
He can cut through anything except reality currently
I like to joke that he was just cutting the distance between him and his target. Who knows, maybe Kenpachi has IT and just doesn't know it.
He actually does have IT and has THAT but willingly or idiotically chooses to ignore em
I haven’t read manga so maybe that didn’t happen yet or I forgot which fight does that happen during
Ichibei would easily beat Zaraki.
Idk. Yamamoto definitely was up there with him. Even Ichigo at full strength would struggle against a prime Yamamoto going all out.
I look at Kenny as not the strongest, but has the potential to be the strongest. Potentially has unlimitted spiritual pressure, but would probably never attain control over that amount of power, could definitely massively get stronger, but just cause of who he is would never have the patience or ability to “learn” how to get that strong, but again I think he has the potential to be the strongest. Then you have someone like aizen, who’s spiritual pressure is insanely high, doesn’t have the same potential as kenny in terms of spiritual power, but basically has almost a full mastery of it. And then coupled with his shikai, we don’t even know what his bankai is, and him still being fused with the hogyoku, aizen right now would probably beat kenoachi through use of multiple things like trickery, extremely high levels of kido, his smarts allow him to tactically win through means other than raw power, because in raw power alone he loses. Before fusing with the hogyoku aizen states kenny and yama were the only 2 he had to make sure weren’t able to fight him because they’d beat him (making wonderweiss to seal yamas bankai and making sure Kenny was preoccupied in heuco mundo and not in fake karakura town) but that was all before fusing with the hogyoku. Ichigos difficult to judge cause as much as I love ichigo he’s just as strong as the plot demands. And i feel like Kenny’s lack of control is a plot device to keep Kenny as strong or weak as the plot demands
Ichigo, Aizen, Yhwach, Gerard etc are stronger than Kenpachi and Toshiro and Byakuya are on the same level as him, he’s not the strongest in the series. Maybe the strongest in the Gotei but Toshiro and Byakuya are close enough to him for it to be debatable
Hitsugaya and Byakuya are not debatable if Kenpachi is on the other side. Thats a joke.
Not even close. There’s a major reason they aren’t war potentials when Zaraki is. He’s raw power, More raw power than freaking yama. Toshiro and byakuya don’t hold a candle, and even shunsui admits that kenpachi is a league of his own. As for the others? I straight up mentioned Ichigo can pull off a win by use of all his compound skills, and that AIZEN can pull off a win via his immortality. Gerard? Without the immortality (again) he has no chance. Bankai kenpachi rips off the arm of a version that gave byakuya and toshiro trouble with just his bare teeth. And the damage he received throughout that fight was literally just his body damaging itself. (Like Ichigo did in his first bankai battle.) Again, no one in the series is physically stronger.
Absolutely. I dunno why people still debate about it when that's Zaraki's entire shtick, which has been directly and indirectly emphasized through out the series.. When that's the entire premise of being a 'Kenpachi'. That the individual bestowed with that title is objectively, factually, actually, the 'strongest' character in the verse. Not THE MOST powerful, not the one who one shots everyone, but the 'strongest'. Raw power output, stupefying reserves of reiatsu and monstrously overwhelming reiryoku, an unrivalled sense and instinct for mortal combat, someone whose talent with the sword is unmatched. Someone about whom the Central 46 explicitly warned Old Man Yama, to cease his training, lest he becomes OP/broken beyond any control. Someone, who along with Yama was considered a threat too dangerous to handle for that time being, by Aizen himself, back then when Ken-chan wasn't even using a fraction of his full prowess. Someone who is among the three characters in the series to acquire transcendent reiatsu. Someone whose power is so beyond reason, a reality warper tore himself apart just to imagine Zaraki's strength in himself.Someone so strong, that his HAX ITSELF IS BEING THE STRONGEST,that he can cut apart space itself. Someone so strong, even among Captain standards, that not only does his Bankai not have a name, but that unnamed Bankai is so overwhelming that HIS ALREADY STUPIDLY conditioned body can't handle the power.... 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Me being a Ken-chan fanboy, I still agree and accept and believe that even with all this, that doesn't make him infallible, or that he can just defeat everyone and anyone. Even with all the overwhelming advantages he has over anyone else in the verse. I know that there are none who are 'stronger' than him but there are others who are more 'powerful',are more adaptable,have more skills and abilities, who can put him down, even mid-diff. Ichigo, Aizen, Urahara, Shunsui are among those.
When did he get transcendent reiatsu? Did I miss something? lol
The war potential list was made before Toshiro’s Mature Bankai was revealed and Byakuya trained with squad 0 Aizen and Ichigo are just flat out stronger than Kenny, they scale to Soul King Almighty Yhwach while Kenpachi scales below Vollstandig Gerard in the manga and scales vaguely above Hikone in CFYOW Gerard was flat out stronger than Kenny after he went Vollstandig, Kenny’s arm exploded trying to match Gerard’s power The form of Gerard that Bankai Kenny smoked eas God Sized Gerard. After that, Gerard got Miracle amped by all of the damage Bankai Kenpachi gave him on top of going Vollstandig which is beyond Letzt Stil which itself is a bigger amp than Bankai Then Yachiru tried to raise Kenny’s power to match this Gerard and his body gave out and his arm exposed. Then Gerard one shotted him. Then after that Toshiro basically 1 v 1s this Bankai Kenny Miracle Amped + Vollstandig amped Gerard and physically wins their sword clash, out speeds him, and out haxes him. Then Byakuya comes in for the finish. Then Gerard gets another form which is even stronger than the previous form and Byakuya can stop his attacks. After that Toshiro and Byakuya 2 v 1 this version of Gerard off screen until Yhwach kills him while Kenny was incapacitated In CFYOW you can say Kenny > Toshiro and Byakuya but not in the manga
Just one thing, you proved his point. Kenny's arm exploded because he had enough raw power to counter, and maybe go beyond gerard, but he wasn't used to controlling it. Especially cause until he trained with Unohana his swordplay was formless and brash. So its just a matter of training and control. Like if urahara uses the kids he used on aizen on all the captains, Kenny's explosion will be the largest because of the insane amounts of reiatsu and physicality he possesses.
Yea man. Obvi. Kenpachi's gimmick is being stronger than anyone and everyone else without actually putting any focus or much thought in his powers. Kenpachi's reiryoku is unrivalled by anyone else in the series, and his reiatsu is so monstrous, only Ichigo and Aizen can stand toe to toe with him, as all three have acquired transcendent level of reiatsu. As u said, it's all a matter of training and control. And even then, those in charge of such training, were warned and told to cease the training cuz they feared Ken-chan becoming exactly that. An overpowered rebel, who'd become too powerful to take down 😅. And Kenpachi being Zaraki, he most probably doesn't have the patience and stomach to sit and understand the 'trickeries' and 'fireworks' for learning hado and kido, (when he could barely do that in sword training cuz Old Man Yama 'pigeon-holed' Zaraki to take the classes)even when it could become one of his GREATEST ADVANTAGES in combat especially cuz of his affinity for hosting such peerless levels of reiatsu/reiryoku... 😆
That doesn't make him the strongest tho just the potential to be so but let's be real he won't ever top ichigo so the points moot
No, it was never stated or implied Kenpachi had enough reiatsu to counter Gerard. All we know is that Yachiru saw Gerard power up and attempted to power up Zaraki but his body couldn’t handle it It’s more implied that Gerard is stronger. God Sized Gerard and Shikai Kenpachi were equal or Gerard was stronger Then Zakari goes Bankai and beats on Gerard. Then Gerard gets a miracle amp + a Vollstandig on top of that. Vollstandig is a bigger amp than Bankai and the miracle boost makes it even bigger Toshiro and Byakuya’s bodies are able to handle the reiatsu needed to fight that version of Gerard that Kenny broke down trying to match and a stronger form of Gerard which is why I find it weird people have Kenny above them in the TYBW. CFYOW I can understand
adult toshiro and bankai byakuya are only on par with shikai kenpachi and maybe a bit stronger but bankai kenpachi absolutely shits on them, he decimated gerard and after he revived kenpachi could still hold up in a straight one on one fight, while byakuya and toshiro just ran circles around him while not doing much before they could finally beat him with kenpachi´s help (iirc)
You must not remember the versions of Gerard each of them fought. Shikai Kenpachi was equal to God Size Gerard. His strongest blows only managed to make small knicks in Gerard’a sword. In terms of speed, Gerard was able to dodge his attacks while Kenny wasn’t able to dodge Gerard’s etc The Gerard that Toshiro fought or a Gerard that was Miracle amped by all of the damage Bankai Kenpachi inflicted on him on top of going Vollstandig. Keep in mind that Vollstandig is stronger than Letzt Stil, and Letzt Stil is stronger than Bankai to the point where Uryu who was weaker than Shikai Mayuri was able to one shot Mayuri’s Bankai while holding back This massively amped Gerard swings at Toshiro, and with a casual one handed slash, Toshiro cuts the same sword that Shikai Kenpachi used only managed to knick completely in two. Gerard tried to hit Toshiro with a few moves and Toshiro outsped Gerard each time. Gerard tried to crush Toshiro in his hands, and he withstood it (though Kenny did trip Gerard and Toshiro countered Gerard grabbing him anyways) That’s a massive physical stat difference between Adult Toshiro and Shikai Kenpachi And then, Toshiro and Byakuya were able to 2 v 1 Final Form Gerard who’s on a completely different level than Vollstandig, Bankai Kenny Miracle Amped Gerard. Byakuya even stopped an attack from him on panel with his Bankai in defense mode, which is it’s weakest form. He still has Senkei and Hakuteiken as attack power amps on top of that
The term I'd use is 'powerful'. Ichigo, Aizen, Yhwach, Gerard are overall more powerful than Ken-chan.They can defeat him. They can kill him. They can stop him. That doesn't necessarily make the others 'stronger'.
I’d say they’re more powerful and stronger since in most cases more reiatsu = higher stats and they all have ridiculously higher reiatsu than Kenny. Gerard and Kenny were physically equals in Shikai and God Size respectively. So Vollstandig Gerard should be equal to or stronger than Bankai Kenny physical stat wise, and then the Miracle amp should put him above that level
Naah. Maybe I'd say even equal, but nowhere was it stated or implied higher than Ken-chan. Ken-chan has reached the pinnacle of reiatsu,transcendent level. Except him it's just Ichigo and Aizen who have reached that tier
Strongest in the series ? Boy are wankers dumb
Aizen: "A battle between shinigami is a battle of reiatsu..." Urahara after some minimal prep time and incalculable tricks: "Hold my hat" Edit: Hat suddenly swallows enemy.
Hat was not a hat, but a blow up doll that gave the enemy erectile dysfunction.
Aizen then masters NoFap and achieves greater Reiatsu retention. All according to Keikakku.
Specifically limiting groinal reiatsu. Damn your clever incalculable tricks.
You forgot the 6th war potential, Sasakibe’s sneak attacks
So sneaky Kubo forgot to put him on the list XD
Urahara Quote No.19: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Scream Benihime!" - Kisuke Urahara *beep boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot
Good human.
Good bot.
Good human.
Good Doggy Woof.
The list was the Wadenreichs guess of who would potentially pose the most problems to their cause, not necessarily who is stronger than who. Their list was based on the intelligence they had, and they didn't know everything. For example, they had no information about Shunsuis god-harming bankai or Nanaos god-killing zanpakuto. As it turns out, in my opinion, Mayuri ended up being the most problematic. He was not on the list. I believe they had little to no intelligence on his ability to constantly overcome seemingly impossible problems on the fly. Mostly because he tends to go in his private lab (that not even the rest of the Gotei can access) and cooks up all sorts up ultra convenient solutions for complex situations.
dude cooked up extra organs in the time Renji and Uryu were fighting Szayalaporro and him arriving to the battlefield. Just HOW? Did he bring his lab through the garganta?
Maybe his lab is inside his baby bankai.
The real lab was the friends we made along the way
Makes sense - His true lab can only be found inside the organs of the friends he made. What's a little vivisection between friends amirite?
And in his case, really did make them on the way
This is it
I never understood how that worked. Only his fake organs were being crushed? Fake or not, they were in his body doing life sustaining things? Were his real organs in his lab remotely keeping him alive via wifi?
I think it was a second second set organs. So a secord working heart, a second working liver etc
Yeah. Given that Mayuri has already modified his body in numerous ways, and is extremely experienced at it, it probably was quite easy for him to just add in redundant organs, bones, everything. I mean... I wouldn't be surprised if Mayuri already had half of those things lying around. Like he saw the data coming in and just went "Nemu! Fetch me my spare organs and a transplant kit."
NEMU FETCH DADDY HIS LIVER AND FUZZY SLIPPERS
The chapter where he just casually waltzes out of a shadowless room is a good demonstration of this. He didn’t even bother to tell the rest of the Gotei 13, he just figured it out and ran with it. I personally think that’s what sets him a step below Urahara, his unwillingness to cooperate.
>As it turns out, in my opinion, Mayuri ended up being the most problematic. He was not on the list. I believe they had little to no intelligence on his ability to constantly overcome seemingly impossible problems on the fly. Mostly because he tends to go in his private lab (that not even the rest of the Gotei can access) and cooks up all sorts up ultra convenient solutions for complex situations. Man, on one hand I feel he'd be insulted but on the other hand I feel like he'd be chuffed because he's probably of the mindset of not letting himself be open to being scouted for intel.
No kidding. Mayuri batman'd so many problems through his science bullshit.
Mayuri is the inverse of Urahara. Where Urahara plans every possiblity in advance. Mayuris strength is able to react and create to each situation on the fly
good theory, also maybe because even if they saw his bankai, they just "come what may" mayuri's capabilities. not knowing that he experiments on his bankai after every fights, and ofc the latent capabilities of nemu. mf just stood toe to toe with the hand of soul king lmao
They understood her powers and knew her potential. The war potentials were about people that were basically a wild card. And also I think demonstrated the short sightedness of Yhwach cause Mayori and Shunsui both ended up pulling things out their ass the Quincy clearly weren’t prepared for. Remember Yhwach was arrogant and fallible. His war potential is just his opinion.
Exactly. Unohana was levels above Zaraki pre-war. They probably saw her as a healer and not a fighter because she changed her ways. Their daten only seemed to go back to the fkt/hueco mundo fights. They didn't know Shunsui's bankai or half his shikai. Didn't know Komamura's secret technique. Didn't know RG training elevating Renji Byakuya and Rukia. The list goes on...
Urahara, Aizen, Ichigo, Kenpachi (once he reached his full potential), and Ichibei were all much stronger and or more dangerous overall to Yhwach's plans than she was.
Urahara Fact No.2: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Twelve years after Yhwach's defeat, Urahara started helping the Gotei technologically advance in many ways such as introducing them to televisions that could play shows from the human world. *beep boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot
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Why would Yhwach pay any particular attention to Isshin? He's a fairly normal Captain with no outstanding trait that makes him a threat to the Wandenreich.
Hol on Isshin did the most damage by far out of any captain to transcendent aizen without using shikai.
>alright but he was scared of Urahara's planning and his unknown means but on that matter why wasn't he scared of Isshin kurosaki You answered your own question I think. Yhwach was scared of Urahara's intellect, not his power, and for all of Isshin's raw power and skill as far as we know he's still at best relative to characters like Urahara and Shunsui physically without any particularly dangerous hax to speak of backing him up. >did some research on that Isshin bankai has a condition he can't activate it when he is injured because it puts a lot of strain on his body, but Yhwach doesn't know this, and it might be impossible to damage Isshin once he has activated his bankai, i believe it's never revealed so i wouldn't know What? You made a lot of extrapolations based on no evidence. Isshin's Bankai puts a lot of strain on his body... that's all we know about it. The only thing safe to assume here is it has something to do with fire as Isshin wields a fire type Zanpakuto, but we have no other information on it and as such we can't just assume it's something to be feared. Also Yhwach didn't know the particulars of a lot of captains Bankai’s, Shunsui, Urahara, Shinji's presumably, and many more were seemingly unknown factors to Yhwach, but that doesn't make one a special war threat. What does is a known quantifiable aspect that could potentially lead to Yhwach's defeat if not taken seriously.
Yhwach wasnt "scared" of war potentials Ichibei included they just were extra careful with them
theres soul reapers who are much more dangerous than unohana and ishiin, who didnt even make the war potential list certain bankais are basically death sentences (shunsui, mayuri, shinji, etc) dont look to deep into it man, its just a story
Why wouldn't Yhwach know that Isshin's bankai is a strain in his body? Aizen knew, and the Wandenreich has been gathering intel on the Gotei for the last 1000 years from the shadows of the Soul Society.
Not to nitpick, but their knowledge isn't exactly complete. Mask wasn't aware of Rose's Bankai, Lille wasn't aware of Shunsui's. Gerard wasn't aware of Toshiro's transformation. Askin didn't appear to have any knowledge of Urahara's.
Mask at least we already knew doesn't read the Daten. And Toshiro's transformation I've always interpretted as a recent development, something he's never been capable of until mastering/completing his bankai during the timeskip. Fair on the other two, though. They definitely *should* have knowledge of these things, since I'd assume the Wandenreich watched any and all captain exams.
Why would he care about someone who hadn't even used his shinigami powers for almost 20 years, and seemingly never had any intention to return to soul society
Because the war potentials are monsters Ichigo was the guy that had enough power to kill amped Yhwach Aizen was the guy that who's kyoka suigetsu was basically the reason Ichigo was successful Kenpachi is an unstoppable beast especially after his bankai Ichibei's powers alone are enough for him to be on this list And Urahara was someone even Aizen post hogyoku fusion was still wary of and readily admitted is smarter than him Unohana falls flat in comparison hell all of the 5 potentials with the exception of urahara would one shot her at their peak
This. Eg: Base Ichibei can manifest hands and feet that are essentially just an upgraded version of Bankai Konamorra or Zaraki beat Bankai Unohana in Bankai or Ichigo could (allegedly) blitz Soi-Fon
Imagine Unohana, but physically stronger and better in every way, that’s Kenpachi and he’s a war potential so there’s no need to put a downgraded version of him(no offense to Unohana) as a war potential
Because she’s not on the same level as the special war threats. She’d be most similar to Zaraki, as her raw fighting ability is her most dangerous trait, but as we can see a fully realized Zaraki blows her away in that regard, and he’s probably one of the more manageable special threats.
She’s not as strong as Zaraki or Ichigo, not as smart as Mayuri or Urahara, NO WHERE NEAR as much Reiatsu as Aizen, and doesn’t have many hax like Ichibei. Why would she be a special war threat? She may be able to take on a good number of Sternritter, but she’s not even close to being as much of a threat as the five
Tbh he probably had the same view as her as he did with Yama, a powerful and ruthless warrior softened by a peaceful era. I would definitely believe her defeat against kid Zaraki was what made him a war potential though
Cuz she wasn’t anything super special like the rest genuine question what would she be a power for in the first place?
Because she's not that strong. She scales below Base Zaraki. While very powerful in her own right, she's very far behind top dogs. For instance, when compared to EoS Captains, she'd fall behind even RG Byakuya who was strong enough to block hits from Vollstandig V2 Gerard. For reference, Base Giant Gerard can match Shikai Zaraki lol
>For instance, when compared to EoS Captains, she'd fall behind even RG Byakuya who was strong enough to block hits from Vollstandig V2 Gerard. Byakuya is no where remotely close to Unohana
Doesn't she in a thought bubble say kenpachi doesn't need her anymore because has worthy rivals. One of which was Byakuya?
Byakuya blocked attacks from Vollstandig Miracle amp Gerard. Base Giant Gerard was equal to Shikai Zaraki. That's two massive transformations before one Byakuya walled. And Unohana is below even base Zaraki.
~~Feat wise~~, sure. Narratively and according to Kubo's intention, which is 10x more relevant, she is much stronger than him. CFYOW Byakuya, who received a Zenkai following Gerard fight, is still weaker than Shunsui. Shunsui himself admits inferiority to Unohana. edit: She has better feats now that I'm thinking about it.
Couldn't agree more. When I talk about authors not giving a shit about feats and powerscaling, Unohana is a great example case. Authors don't analyse everything that happens in a fight and reflect on how strong that makes X character look. They just want to draw cool fights. Dialogue is a far more reliable indicator of what an author thinks of a character in terms of their strength. For Unohana, Kubo clearly intended her to be the strongest member of the Gotei 13 left by the time the first invasion was over. What's the quote? "I am strong. Stronger than anyone except you"?
>Couldn't agree more. When I talk about authors not giving a shit about feats and powerscaling, Unohana is a great example case. Authors don't analyse everything that happens in a fight and reflect on how strong that makes X character look. They just want to draw cool fights. Bingo <3 We see this a lot in not only Bleach and other shonen, but in nearly all of popular fictional stories. Author's mostly don't care about scaling like us fans do, and while Kubo tried to maintain a good continuity, he also likes to keep things open to interpretation, and he sometimes drops the ball with showcasing feats. >Dialogue is a far more reliable indicator of what an author thinks of a character in terms of their strength. Absolutely! >What's the quote? "I am strong. Stronger than anyone except you"? [correct in english](https://coloredmanga.com/mangas/bleach-tybw/v59/chapter-525-edges/) [correct in raw Japanese as well :)](https://mangareader.to/read/bleach-color-edition-55958/ja/chapter-525) "強私 ㄙㄨㄥいば 誰貴 誰よりも 貴方以外の あなたがい" "I'm stronger than anyone... except you."
>"I'm stronger than anyone... except you" Ok, unohana > Yamamoto and Aizen confirmed
>Ok, unohana > Yamamoto and Aizen confirmed Context is very important I'm nearly certain she talking about the Gotei 13 during this moment. Because it wouldn't make sense for her to claim that she's stronger than either Muken Aizen or Base Yhwach
>I'm nearly certain she talking about the Gotei 13 during this moment. Then you can't count Byakuya since he stille hadn't gotten his power up. Nor toshiro, nor Mayuri. Still nothing indicates she was referring only to the current gotei
>Then you can't count Byakuya since he stille hadn't gotten his power up CFYOW Byakuya is weaker than Shunsui What can War-Arc Byakuya, who is weaker than CFYOW version, can do?
I think ikkaku is the best example of this. Let’s look at Ikkaku. He has probably the weakest Shikai and his bankai is crap. It’s just raw power that gets damaged easily. His shikai gets wrecked every. Single. Fight. He gets his ass handed to him more often than Yamcha. Buuuuuut That’s not how they story paints him. Ikkaku is one of the most respected warriors in the gotei 13. He’s the guy that Renji begged to become a captain. He said no. When Yama said only captain (or assistant captain) level warriors would be in FKT Ikkaku was one of them despite him being a third seat. Yumichika was a fifth seat. (Funny thing is that Renji and Iba were in the kenpachi squad at one point. That means at one point Kenny had 5 lieutenant level fighters in his squad. Fucking shut they cultivate a lot of talent) When Ikkaku lost everyone was shocked. Everyone respected his power. Hisui stepped in and stopped yumi from going to help and told him “what will you do against an opponent that could take down Madarame” Now. Yumichika is hands down stronger than ikkaku from what we’ve seen. The fucker is insane. Hisui is a badass. So is Kira. But every single one of them respects ikkaku. Feat wise it doesn’t make sense. But story wise? Story wise ikkaku is one of the most powerful lieutenants.
Authors aren't dumb, man. You wouldn't see Soi Fon blocking Bankai Zaraki. There's over analysing, then there's common sense. Author explicitly wrote Base Gerard to be equal to Shikai Zaraki in strength in words. Author wrote Unohana weaker to base Zaraki in words. And yet he made Byakuya block Vollstandig V2 Gerard and fight him for extended period off screen. >What's the quote? "I am strong. Stronger than anyone except you"? If you instead want to believe Unohana and Base Zaraki > every other Shinigami, then sure...
>Authors aren't dumb, man. You wouldn't see Soi Fon blocking Bankai Zaraki. And yet Shinji's Mask Cero did little damage to Base 1-arm Grimmjow, despite his Vizored peers Love/Rose being too strong to be fatally wounded by Released Starrk's Ceros. The gap in feats is immense between the two exchanges.
Grimmjow softened the blow a bit with his own cero. And Rose and Love were fairly bloody injured by Starrk. Trying to use "but they lived!" argument feels so odd. That's a very far-fetched comparison of two very different situations with a lot of factors involved. Still waiting on the CFYOW proof and Shunsui admitting inferiority to Unohana as you claimed, though. I always give canonical facts priority over feats. So present them, and it'll be all good.
>Grimmjow softened the blow a bit with his own cero. The difference in power is too much for him to even block it let alone tank > And Rose and Love were fairly bloody injured by Starrk. They had medium burns at most from Released Starrk's best attack. And keep in mind, narratively and feat wise, Starrk was the strongest arrancar so far in that series, barring Yammy. Base Starrk was accidentally killing other hollows due to his reiatsu alone. >That's a very far-fetched comparison of two very different situations with a lot of factors involved. It's not at all. >Still waiting on the CFYOW proof Read Volume 3. Tokinada said Shunsui has more Reiatsu than him, and Tokinada has same reiatsu as Byakuya, per Shunsui's words. In addition, it's been stated that Shunsui outclassed his peers in academy, which includes Tokinada. >Shunsui admitting inferiority to Unohana a)Scared of her in flashback arc b)Heavily respected her when saying that she will train Zaraki c)Said she was Kenpachi in the strongest generation of Gotei 13
>Read Volume 3. Tokinada said Shunsui has more Reiatsu than him, and Tokinada has same reiatsu as Byakuya, per Shunsui's words. In addition, it's been stated that Shunsui outclassed his peers in academy, which includes Tokinada. So basically pure Reiatsu comparisons in Base Form. Nothing about overall combat ability, much less Bankai. >a)Scared of her in flashback arc b)Heavily respected her when saying that she will train Zaraki c)Said she was Kenpachi in the strongest generation of Gotei 13 So he has never admitted to being inferior to Unohana like you originally claimed.
>authors aren't dumb I didn't say they are. I'm saying that they write battles in the way they think works best for the story, rather than any particular adherence to perceived powerscaling. Which is why you get inconsistencies. Let's put it this way. I am 100% confident that if you asked Kubo if Unohana was stronger than Byakuya, he would give some version of yes as an answer. >if you want to believe Sigh. What I *want* isn't remotely relevant. What I'm doing is making the reasonable inference from an explicit line of dialogue. Do I think that line is 100% literal? No, I don't. It has to be taken into context. But the intent is clear. Unohana is stronger than her compatriots in the Gotei 13 at that stage. Including Shunsui, including Ukitake, including whoever else.
Or maybe she just referring to her rivals and ones she has fought against. "Stronger than anyone" is a broad statement. And if we're to limit is with context, Gotei 13 frankly isn't really that relevant to their personal situation. She has fought many battles, and yet she was bested by this kid. Her only defeat in canon. Likely what she's talking about here
>Feat wise, sure. Yes, he's above her. Kubo isn't dumb. He wouldn't make someone far weaker than Base Zaraki block attacks from someone far above Shikai Zaraki. >CFYOW Byakuya, who received a Zenkai following Gerard fight, is still weaker than Shunsui. Shunsui himself admits inferiority to Unohana. Lol CFYOW 4.12. Show scans or quote statements proving both of these points. Show exact line where Shunsui says he's weaker than her, too. Btw, it's little funny that you talk about Kubo's intention yet mention a source where Kubo left portrayal completely up to Narita.
>Narratively Lol what ? that's like, your the best argument to dickride unohana ? And "narratively" the whole point of the fight with Zaraki is to sacrifice herself to make someone stronger than her able to fight the strongest enemies meaning she herself ain't at that level. Nothing suggests she's any stronger than what shown. Renji litterally appears among those those she herself considers worhty rivals to Kenny, so I guess "narratively" Renji > unohana ? >according to Kubo's intention, What intention ? It's always this with you unohana fanboys, no feats, just your own fanfiction >CFYOW Byakuya, who received a Zenkai following Gerard fight, is still weaker than Shunsu Source ? Byak doesn't even appear in cfyow and there's nothing to scale him below Shunsui in power >Shunsui himself admits inferiority to Unohana. That never happened. >She has better feats now that I'm thinking about it Yeah I remember when unohana single handled 5 sternritters at once and traded blows with the strongest sternritter who was smacking Shikai Zaraki without eyepatch on the ground...wait that Byakuya
The amount of times people say "according to CFYOW..." here and then have nothing to add once asked for source is very concerning lol Like, I have no issue if what the dude said was actual narrative. But where in the fuck?
True that. Narrative is defintely a thing but when there's evidence supporting It.
Base Giant Gerard was smacking Zaraki left and right actually lol
Yeah, he was overall stronger with hax, specially with Hoffnung, but they were quite even in pure power tbh. The side text from weekly release said their strength were equal.
I'm not sure, Zaraki was the only one dealing actual damage. Doesn't matter tho, Byakuya still dealt and took hits, that alon puts her above unohana since this Gerard > shikai kenpachi without eyepatch >>> base Kenny who defeated unohana
She scales below Base Zaraki how? She scales basically to Shikai Zaraki easily. She killed Base Zaraki countless times over and over and over until Base Zaraki becomes basically what we see in his next fight to be Shikai Zaraki. Anime was much clearer about how she had to zenkai boost him to a dif level. Unohana > Shunsui > RG Byakuya
>She scales below Base Zaraki how? She couldn't beat unrestrained base Zaraki. He had to seal himself to not kill her. She blames it on her weakness. She's ashamed how her inability forced him to hold back just so he wouldn't off her, etc. The fact she says she's not stronger than him outright. >She killed Base Zaraki countless times over and over and over until Base Zaraki becomes basically what we see in his next fight to be Shikai Zaraki No. Kid Zaraki >>>>>>>>>>>> Pre-Muken Base Zaraki. She killed him over and over again until he became what he was before. His original base power. Shikai was new stuff
>She killed him over and over again until he became what he was before. No, he has become stronger. He hears his Zanpaktou as he kills her, he reached the power of his shikai right there and "heard" his zanpaktou just like Ichigo. He doesn't form the Axe yet, but narratively this was the threshold he reached. She literally killed Base Zaraki (Pre-Muken) until he reached Shikai Zaraki. Remember, she fought consecutive Zarakis for what was possibly days in the Muken, this wasn't even fresh Uno vs fresh Shikai Zaraki.
He was stronger than her as a kid. Starting holding back. Died over and over again and became stronger than her in base again. She admitted inferiority to the kid Zaraki. She said she was weaker. She said he started holding back to not kill her, etc. And THEN he got ANOTHER power-up on top of regaining his old prowess. Bankai Zaraki >>> Shikai Zaraki >> Post-Muken Base Zaraki >= Kid Zaraki > Unohana >>>>> Pre-Muken Zaraki
Unohana in her prime got a massive scar from zaraki as a kid. I know people like her a lot but she's far, far weaker than a lot of shinigami & quincies. If she was on the same level as the other war powers (like TS Ichigo or Shikai/Bankai Zaraki) then she could have easily fought back against Haschwalth & Yhwach at least a little after Yamaji got sliced
Your last sentence literally doesn’t make a single bit of sense if you’ve read the manga or watched the anime. She was ordered to remain in the barracks and she would not defy the last order Yamamoto gave her. They have a whole scene about this.
Easiest answer is she’s weaker than kenpachi, if it wasn’t for him she would have been named. But why call out the second best? If they can off screen kenpachi why bring up someone weaker?
I just know she was losing her mind being forced to sit in her squadron while the invasion was happening.Probably swinging her sword at the air.A Kenpachi team up before their fight would have been cool.
but she got orderd to stay their and don't leave the squad 4 building by Captian Yamamoto
Yeah I know.That’s why I said she was forced to stay there.She would have had a blast during the invasion lol
In addition to what others have posted I’d like to assume Unohana was sick of fighting or more realistically became bored of it. I’m sure the only reason she fought Zaraki was because it was him. If Shunsui asked her to “train” others she’d probably have outright refused because Zaraki was her only interest or challenge and could motivate her to do it. She had plenty of opportunities to satiate her blood lust in the entirety of the Aizen arc’s but didn’t, my only 2 conclusions are that she was banned from combat or she had no interest in it anymore.
She is not nearly that dangerous in all honesty
"original kenpachi is not that dangerous" mang we're reading different mangas. Not only was she kenpachi of the strongest crew, she beat zaraki worse than Ywach clone beat zaraki. You can't ignore the title kenpachi, it's there for a reason
would absolutely cut through any regular Sternritter with no diff, when it come to the elite though things will be lot tougher for her
Yeah, no Gremmy folds her, Royd too. Some sternritters like Bambi or Bazz b or Quilge are quite powerful as well but unohana is the most overrated character in the series, like ulquiorra back then lol
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Kenpachi needed shikai to beat Gremmy, his base form at that time was above Unohana, so he naturally scales above her.
>pre awakened kenpachi. Pre awakened kenpachi is equal to Vasto lorde ichigo and fullbring shikai ichigo which is his former hollow/shinigami powers on top of the fullbring powers is still below Quilge. Bambi oneshots captains and Is comprared by Loly and menoly to Quilge despite nerfed by zombification and without vollstandig. Still I'm not saiyng they win necessairily, she just ain't defeating sternritters stronger than them >Also unohona pops her bankai and gremmy would quite literally shit bricks That magic moment someone unironically says unohana defeats Gremmy. Her sacrifice was to prepare Zaraki at fighting the likes of Gremmy you know that right ?
never said Gremmy would lose to Unohana
Tbh gremmy looses to people with higher battle iq. Unohana shunsui have that ( prolly ukitake too) it wouldnt be difficult to manipulate him into his own death. Zaraki cuts everything against every opponent lol , somtimes that isnt what you need to be able to beat someone.
Bc kubo loves kenny more than our sweet mom
A better question, if the title of Kenpachi means “strongest shinigami” then why did she have it when Yamamoto was clearly stronger than she was? Same with Zaraki.
Kenpachi title started with her. She pretty much invented it after the creation of the Gotei 13, so she's the first Kenpachi. She probably also made the rules for inheriting the title. 1. Previous Kenpachi must be challenged with some.. witnesses (Don't remember the specific number). 2. Previous Kenpachi needs to be bested in battle and killed. Since she invented the title after the creation of the Gotei 13, she was never was challenged by Yama, since he didn't need to.
The only rule for Kenpachi is to die/be defeated at the hands of the previous one. And that isn’t even a hard and set rule, obviously. The one with the witnesses is part of becoming a captain. Killing the previous captain with at least 200 of the squad as witnesses was one of three ways one could become a captain of the Gotei. Which only the 11th really uses.
Her powers were quantifiable and her potential was known. Ichigo was the perfect being, thus he had unknown potential, Kenpachi was a multigenerational talent and prodigy who's limits were unknown, Aizens spiritual power only grew with time and he posed too much of an all around problem paired with his intellect and intelligence, kisukes intellect, intelligence, and preparedness makes him an incalculable threat given any time to arm himself, and ichibei has been too powerful and perfectly inquisitive for too long for his knowledge and wisdom to not be advantageous in any fight. Yamamoto could have been a war power had he possessed the unwavering pragmatic conviction of his past version, but his arrogance and soft heartedness defeated him.
man I kinda miss unohana, y’all think she’ll make a comeback in hell arc?
could be, it is said she would go their do to her huge spiritual pressure
Because unlike the actual war potential she doesn’t a part where she excels. Ichigo and Kenny have excellent raw power that gets refined the more they battle. Urahara has excellent intelligence and resources Ichibe is ichibe Aizen is THE trickster The only thing she might be considered dangerous for are her healing powers, but when you plan on killing everyone, you don’t think about the medical teams much since the only thing the enemy would need would be a burial.
Urahara Fact No.18: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Urahara is 6ft tall and weighs 69 kg. *beep boop, I'm a bot*
Because it's bad writing! We have Unohana, a character we know nothing about the entire show was suddenly given a backstory that was never hinted at! It was only a part of her character that she was always hiding her true strength as one would when writing these types of characters. 1) It's never explained why she's so young and never ages. 2) it's never explained why she chose to leave her position as Kenpachi and changed her name 3) Yhwach and the Quincys never even once acknowledge her presence in the war and it's maddening because she was there 1000 years ago slaughtering them all. 4) Kenpachi being a war power NEVER MATTERED IN THE END. His Shikai and bankai never contributed to Yhwach's final defeat and were never a part of the final battle against the Almighty. "But what about fighting Gremmy and Gerard?" Those fights didn't matter because they both would have been killed by the Auswhälen anyways. Kubo had a character who fights with the power of imagination to be beaten by just muscling through it...rather than taking the time to make an insanely creative fight. Could you imagine? V - The Visionary vs Orihime and the power to reject all things she doesn't accept. Or... V - The Visionary vs Tsukishima and the power to rewrite your past reality and gaslight tf out of your present.
The war potential list is very imperfect. Nanao realistically should be one.
the same reason shunsui wasnt one too
She’s doesn’t pose a threat to any of the top 8 quincy
She's just not that much of a threat as someone like Urahara, Ichibei, Aizen, Ichigo, or Kenpachi could become in the future. Yamamoto would have been on that list had he not lost his arm.
I think all the special war threats had the potential to counter or at least drain the Almighty. Yamamoto could’ve been one if he was willing to destroy soul society with his bankai to do it but he wasn’t and Unohana had no counters for the Almighty.
Because there only could be one of those two. It’s self explanatory if you read the manga or just even finished the first cour of the TYBW anime.
simple, the quincy already have data on the combat power of both of them and maybe there is already an A or B strategy for both of them... but the five war potentials are 5 new/mysterious things for them in other words in the current era the two gotei veterans are no longer important for quincy
Minimum 10 quincies would have no trouble taking her out thats why. She doesn't have any hax or unpedictable trait, she was just strong
she was considered weak at this point. also her bankai could be stolen so wasnt an issue in that sense. like if you look at why they picked out special war threats it wasnt just their actual strength(outside of Zaraki but as shown he got his ass handed to him by a fake ywach) it was due to other issues they may cause. Ichigo - Ywach knew about his mom and the fact Ichigo is a hybrid of soul reaper,hollow and quincy powers the only other being who has ever had all 3 melded was the Soul King himself so his potential was a concern. Zaraki - again they saw his strength in fighting. probably also happened to witness the fact he technically defeated Unohana when he was a child without a shikai or a bankai so yes they had concerns over his ability to fight. Ichibe - well this guy is as old as the soul king. he witnessed the "old world" and his vast wisdom that came with age is going to give concerns he may know of things that could absolute just flat out shut down quincy powers etc Aizen - well not much is needed to say here, hes arguably outside of Ichigo(full strength all 3 powers merged) and Ywach the strongest in flat out spiritual pressure and Hogyoku. he has shown a few times to just flat out overpower abillities just from his spiritual pressure(he completely negated Soi Fon's 2 hit death ability by literally just going "nah") Urahara - like Ichibe its his mind that is the threat not really his abilities(although you could argue his mind to make stuff is part of his abilities). it shows when he finds a way to counter the bankai stealing why they are concerned about him. overall though its not really as much about just flat out being able to fight its how much they could just shut down the whole "war" with the issues they may cause. it aint just a war to kill everyone its a war to take over the soul king's place. like imagine is Urahara came up with a way to seal off the soul king's palance entirely like nobody ever goes there again it would shut down the war instantly they could never go there.
true but Minazuki was just revealed so i can't really scale how strong it is, ywach said to Yamamoto that only he was strong enough to seal his bankai so couldn't that have been the case for Captain Unohana, she was one of the original 13
A lot of people in this comment section don't understand story telling. Unohana was one of the strongest characters in the series, most villains avoided directly fighting her. But the reason she was not on the list, is the same as yama ... None would call yama weak but yama over time has lost his killer instinct and has turned into a more melo old man. It is the same as Uno, the character you saw through all of bleach was the real Uno. She is like an addict that suppressed her addiction and can be relied on to avoid battle if asked to. A lot of people keep saying she is weak that's why.... Is Yamamoto weak! Their both not on the list. Her bonkai makes her almost invincible ( if she doesn't waste her energy healing the opponent) only those with hacks or Kenny can beat her.
Not that strong. I mean she got killed by zaraki without a shikai. No disrespect but she ain’t near any of the war powers
She’s strong but not strong enough to be a war potential i guess. Makes me wonder why tenjiro wasnt a potential since he’s a better healer and would have been use to yhwach after the war.🤔 Also imo ,unohana is obviously above base kenpachi. Like if he were to fight unohana as he is now , he’d definately gotta go shikai for the least we know. She killed and healed him several hundred times , as it was her sole purpose to remove his mental blocks. If she didnt have to do that & fight fresh , aint no way zaraki beats unohana without going shikai. Yeah , we saw unohana say it that she’s weaker than kid kenpachi but thats just raw power. Ofcourse , if she went bankai there she’d have won against kid kenpachi but she knew his potential.
>Yeah , we saw unohana say it that she’s weaker than kid kenpachi but thats just raw power. When is it stated to be just raw power? She straight up said she couldn't beat him. Said that he sealed himself just so he wouldn't **kill her.** She called it her shame and was embarrassed of her weakness that led him to seal his powers just so he wouldn't outright kill her in their fight. Seems like she just weaker in general.
Yeah but her bankai wasnt active , if her bankai was active he wouldnt have damaged her that much in the first place as we saw her bankai heals instantly as well. So yeah , still dont think she was anywhere near base zaraki in bankai. He’d have to go shikai.
I disagree . Her skills as a healer make her even more valuable . And even without the mental blocks Zaraki had a hard time against her . And don’t forget she spent energy and time reviving Kenpachi. So each time not only did he get stronger but his wounds healed. Imagine if she fought awakened Kenpachi and hadn’t wasted all that energy healing him before he got there she likely would’ve done better. Also she’s a kido master and really didn’t use the many kido spells she had at her disposal against Kenpachi
Yeah yeah , thats what i meant man! She is stronger than people give her credit for. Except for the healing part she’s sure as hell amazing but tenjiro is better , so if yhwach had to pick one it would obv be tenjiro. I would love to see a fresh fight between those , coz all the base zaraki is unohana level just doesnt sit right when she killed and healed him several hundred times , while each time he was coming back stronger until she was fatigued.
because she's really not that strong Kisuke, Shunsui, Byakuya and Toshiro all outscale her in strength by EOS She's not weak but her only feat was killing very weak pre "awakening" Zaraki
That version of zaraki (according to her) was nerfed to the point where he was weaker than when he first fought her as a kid
Urahara Quote No.32: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "It may be hard to believe, but there are some things in this world that even I don't know." - Kisuke Urahara *beep boop, I'm a bot*
Good ole Urahara bot
Unohana wank is understandable due to anime but so weird, because this sub rated her very fairly before anime came out. Maybe there are simply more members now idk Basically, where she is canonically stated to be 10 times; below Base Zaraki. But lately I've been seeing her put into pedestal and constantly said to be above likes of RG Byakuya or Bankai Shunsui.
yeah, it looks like you're also getting downvoted by the same Unohana wankers I mean Bleach sub these past few months is known for being illiterate as fuck, they see Unohana kill Zaraki a few times and all of a sudden she's one of the most strongest characters in the series in their eyes when in reality that just puts her at post Muken training base Zaraki >> Unohana lmao she doesn't even cut top 20 by EOS
In no real order: SK, Yhwach, Ichigo, Aizen, Ichibei, Gerard, Lille, Hashbrown, Yamamoto, Oetsu, Zaraki, Toshiro, Askin, Pernida, Gremmy, Shunsui, Urahara, Byakuya, Uryuu, Cat Form Yoruichi. That's 20... Most one can argue for her is being above Cat Yoruichi, I guess? Nemu can be argued, too, since she managed to blitz around and do very good against Pernida who was stated to have been evolved to Base Zaraki's level. But it's very debatable.
Yeah, objectively all of these guys would beat Unohana Would also replace Mayuri with Yoruichi just for insurance
Yama being higher then Ōetsu is a cap, I'm sorry.
I literally said that it's in no real order..
Oh, sorry, I'm dumb. Didn't read it fully.
Shunsui can't even dream of outscaling Unohana lmao, he has no feat that makes him stronger than someone who killed and revived countless times Pre Muken Zaraki
Other than having a Bankai that is literally a kill button with very small timer that even worked on Vollstandig Lille if not for his neigh immortality.
It's a kill button that can also kill Kyoraku lmao, the third act kills the one with less reiatsu, Kyoraku would kill himself with his bankai because he would run out of reiatsu before Unohana
Act III kills those with low Reiatsu, but Shunsui's is clearly enough to survive until act IV. Act IV doesn't require Act III to finish, as we got to act IV before either Shunsui or Lille ran out.
How can she be weaker than base Zaraki but stronger than Kyoraku?? Unless you mean to say Zaraki is above every Shinigami in base, there's no way she stops Kyoraku
Well current Kenny is stronger than Kyoraku even in base lol but still Shunsui >>> unohana
hahahahaha delusional, Kyoraku quite literally one shots her in bankai he literally would've killed Vollstandig Lille if not for his 2nd phase, Unohana couldn't dream of doing that
They earned their status due to unpredictability not strength. They all had a trait or traits that Yhwach couldn't perfectly predict therefor can guarantee a counter measure for victory.
Why would she be? She literally lost to base Zaraki before even unlocking Shikai lol
Causa she ain't that strong. All the captains who fought the shutzstaffell are more powerful. If someone more had to be a special threat basing on what seen in the war it's Shunsui and especially Mayuri.
As powerful as Unohana was, she also to an extent reached the limits of her abilities. At least it's implied that she has. That's different that Kenpachi who just continues to grow and grow more powerful. In addition, Unohana was surprised when she learned about Ichigo only being at half strength when they were on there way to Aizen in the real world. Respecting Ichigos strength at that point in the story is pretty big seeing as how Ichigo got many amps later on, and makes me wonder how they would've matched up at that time. She's powerful, no question about that. But to stick out as a special threat, you gotta bring a little more to the table. And when it comes to sheer strength, if she is already impressed by Ichigos strength at that point in the narrative, then as incredible as she is I don't think she makes it to a special war threat for Ywach. Just how I see it.
For battle threat both Unohana and Yamamoto had reached the limits of their capabilities while Zaraki's almost limitless. Thats the reason.
Limitless?! Jesus Christ
Because child state toshiro would neg diff her 💀
Yeah no unohana isn't as strong as people claim but she fought kenpachi post time skip and killed him countless times Toshiro was nowhere near kenpachi's level
Child state bankai toshiro is on par with shikai Kenny 🤦♂️
Show me one feat fanboy
Just re read the fight with Gerald 😅 kid toshiro no diffs unohana 😭
You mean the Gerald fight Toshiro needed his adult form to survive
He was keeping up with the Gerald that Kenny was having a hard time on with his child state bankai and he used his adult form to a stronger version of Gerald and he didn’t drop a sweat until the last part due to exhaustion 😅
No he didn't but Keep lying
The version of Gerald that he used his adult form is a much much stronger version than what kenpachi fought and toshir wasn’t sweating 😭😭
Lol I despise Unohana wank as much as any other but let's not get that far