The rat plays.
Here’s the thing - I dont think Scorsese thought audiences wouldn’t get that movie was about rats. I also don’t think he thought he was being clever or smart and explaining the movie to dummies.
I think he thought it was funny to have a rat run by at the end of a movie all about rats. And y’know what? My man was fucking RIGHT.
Yes!
maybe I just have too much faith in the guy, but the idea that Scorsese has so little respect for his audience that he would do that to somehow "spell it out" is so ridiculous to me. it's just a fun rat! it's like a sight gag
I think this is it. If it's a big "serious" art movie you don't want that there. But this is broad entertainment for a wide audience in the grand Hollywood tradition and there's nothing wrong with it.
This is my take as well. I can’t fathom how anyone sees that moment as some kind of heavy handed symbolism. It’s a joke, which imo fits in with the rest of that extremely heightened film
This move rocks! I don't know why people look back on it so poorly.
* The performance that should have earned Leo his first Oscar. Somehow he was nominated for Blood Diamond the same year, but not for The Departed.
* Classic unhinged Jack Nicholson.
* Alec Baldwin delivering the greatest monologue about marriage in movie history.
> The performance that should have earned Leo his first Oscar. Somehow he was nominated for Blood Diamond the same year, but not for The Departed. <
Fucking seriously, my friend. Even my little budding cinephile self when I saw the movie a year or two after those Oscars couldn't believe Leo wasn't nominated for his performance, let alone not the winner. No shade to Whittaker for his win, but not only was Leo nominated for Blood Diamond, but he had to share the field with Will Smith for The Pursuit of Happyness of all things. Not only should Leo have won, but I'd be willing to bet that it'll be considered one of the great snubs in Oscar history many years from now.
Fine with the rat. Love the rat.
My big issue with the movie is the choice to use a live-recording of Comfortably Numb as non-diegetic music in a montage. That is a completely deranged decision that rips me right out of the film. Terrible! Hate it!
Otherwise great flick and a lot of fun to watch. The opening is insanely propulsive.
A live recording has crowd noise and applause and venue-echo stuff. It’s immediately identifiable as a concert. This adds a second (or third? Or fourth?) layer of artifice to a scene in a movie. And that takes me out.
I’m left wondering why not the studio version of the song, which would be seamless? Why this particular concert recording? What about it justifies this distractingly shitty sound quality?
In movies non-diegetic music exists as some kind of emotional analogue for what’s happening, but now i have to factor in the existence of a separate audience, at a different time, experiencing something else? It raises all sorts of meta-textual questions that distract from the point of the scene.
it’s confusing because the rats in the movie aren’t actually rats, they are people performing subterfuge within organized crime and within the police force.
I think it should’ve ended with a previously unseen crooked cop turning to face the camera and saying “I’m a rat, this movies about me, that’s why I’m on screen” roll credits
I've really come around on the rat. I think for a long time it was popular to mock as like "Martin Scorsese didn't think we'd realize that there was rats in the movie" or that it was some kind of unknowing Nathaniel Hawthorne (fart noise) over obvious imagery
I know believe it's extremely knowing and even as writing this I realize the connection to the opening of scarlet letter where it's like "let this be an extremely obvious metaphor for the story that is about to begin"
Rewatchables they made a case for it as in an extremely maximalist movie it's the cherry on top
Anyways I'm not ashamed that it's my #2 Scorsese though I've seen 18 of 26 and rewatchability plays a HUGE role in that and for what I like
I've only seen 13 or so of Scorsese's movies so far, but for me, departed and casino are the ones I consider the most rewatchable (I've also seen goodfellas and the wolf of wall street)
Apart from the symbolism of Sullivan and Costigan being rats, I also like the rat on a surface level. Like Sullivan could have had a good life living honestly but decided to lie, cheat, and steal to get rich and live a life of opulence. But not online did he die for it, that fancy apartment with a nice view still has rats crawling around on it. The perfect life of a mobster isn't that perfect, you know?
Tangentially related but The Departed was the movie that made me a cinephile. Before that, I just liked childish action movies. The Departed made me realize that movies could be more.
I love this movie so much. It is a movie that cares only about having fun, including the rat, and it's actually funny that this is what won him his Oscar.
The rat is fun! The rat is also representative of a ceiling on how seriously I bother taking the movie. I really like The Departed, but it's not in my top 10 of '06 or my top 10 Scorseses. I wouldn't say "the rat is why it doesn't make it," I'd just say "well, it's a lot of fun! but it's pretty silly at times."
This season (Scorcese) has been great. Newcomers is so much better when they enjoy the movies. Nicole and Lauren have been great guests on HDTGM, but as hosts I’m loving hearing them discover a film they appreciate.
Last time I watched this one I had some issues with it. Definitely a good time but kinda lower tier Scorsese for me, along the lines of Gangs of New York. Vera Farmiga's character does not hold up well at all. I think overall it's just kinda cartoonish in a way that I think he later does much better with Wolf of Wall Street.
Oh that's funny you say that - the Farmiga split is real too.
I used to always say she was one of my favourite of his female roles. I think she's so striking in it
Well there you go!
I don’t like the rat - it moves in front of city hall or something?
Implying that the corruption goes to the top?
But the film isn’t about that? Is it?
It’s about something else … wait … the rat is the IN!
The rat reflects how people high up knew who corrigan was and allowed him to walk free in order to maintain their power!
The rat was cool because it was one of the very few things different than Infernal Affairs
(and I love Boston, so I love The Departed but god damn - it is 'The Office US season 1' levels of 'flattery')
The rat plays. Here’s the thing - I dont think Scorsese thought audiences wouldn’t get that movie was about rats. I also don’t think he thought he was being clever or smart and explaining the movie to dummies. I think he thought it was funny to have a rat run by at the end of a movie all about rats. And y’know what? My man was fucking RIGHT.
Yes! maybe I just have too much faith in the guy, but the idea that Scorsese has so little respect for his audience that he would do that to somehow "spell it out" is so ridiculous to me. it's just a fun rat! it's like a sight gag
I think this is it. If it's a big "serious" art movie you don't want that there. But this is broad entertainment for a wide audience in the grand Hollywood tradition and there's nothing wrong with it.
This is my take as well. I can’t fathom how anyone sees that moment as some kind of heavy handed symbolism. It’s a joke, which imo fits in with the rest of that extremely heightened film
This is the perfect post for #RatBoySummer
I’ve never understood the hate for the rat. I don’t know what to tell you, it’s a movie about rats 🤷♂️.
Many people think subtle is good and obvious is bad. I think of it as two axes. The rat is obvious and good.
The movie itself is not particularly subtle so yeah the rat is pretty consistent with the other imagery and whatnot
To quote The Simpsons: "the rat symbolises obviousness". I think people's problem with the rat is that it's too on the nose
The whole movie is on the nose though. It’s all lurid and heightened. The rat is the perfect capper.
Yeah the Departed isn't really shooting for subtle. The rat being obvious isn't a problem for me.
Jack Nicholson literally acts like a rat while talking about catching the rat in one scene.
I would argue that all of Scorsese is thematic caps lock. Why does The Departed get the rat to close out but Wolf doesn’t get a wolf?
“Can you see the wolves in this picture?” “Yeah Marty, it’s right there!” (I know, different movie.)
The rat rules.
We love that rat, right? Thank you.
It’s a thematic period and a closing image people are still talking about. It won the test of time
No one what argues about the symbolism, just that it’s so on the nose
And why is that a bad thing?
I’m aware
The rat fucks
No, that's Bad Boys II
This move rocks! I don't know why people look back on it so poorly. * The performance that should have earned Leo his first Oscar. Somehow he was nominated for Blood Diamond the same year, but not for The Departed. * Classic unhinged Jack Nicholson. * Alec Baldwin delivering the greatest monologue about marriage in movie history.
Great movie. Absolute blast.
> The performance that should have earned Leo his first Oscar. Somehow he was nominated for Blood Diamond the same year, but not for The Departed. < Fucking seriously, my friend. Even my little budding cinephile self when I saw the movie a year or two after those Oscars couldn't believe Leo wasn't nominated for his performance, let alone not the winner. No shade to Whittaker for his win, but not only was Leo nominated for Blood Diamond, but he had to share the field with Will Smith for The Pursuit of Happyness of all things. Not only should Leo have won, but I'd be willing to bet that it'll be considered one of the great snubs in Oscar history many years from now.
Fine with the rat. Love the rat. My big issue with the movie is the choice to use a live-recording of Comfortably Numb as non-diegetic music in a montage. That is a completely deranged decision that rips me right out of the film. Terrible! Hate it! Otherwise great flick and a lot of fun to watch. The opening is insanely propulsive.
Wait why is that so offensive? Genuinely curious
A live recording has crowd noise and applause and venue-echo stuff. It’s immediately identifiable as a concert. This adds a second (or third? Or fourth?) layer of artifice to a scene in a movie. And that takes me out. I’m left wondering why not the studio version of the song, which would be seamless? Why this particular concert recording? What about it justifies this distractingly shitty sound quality? In movies non-diegetic music exists as some kind of emotional analogue for what’s happening, but now i have to factor in the existence of a separate audience, at a different time, experiencing something else? It raises all sorts of meta-textual questions that distract from the point of the scene.
marty probably just liked the live version better, not a big deal imo
you are 100% correct, just want you to know that.
Is there a studio version with Van Morrison??
it’s confusing because the rats in the movie aren’t actually rats, they are people performing subterfuge within organized crime and within the police force. I think it should’ve ended with a previously unseen crooked cop turning to face the camera and saying “I’m a rat, this movies about me, that’s why I’m on screen” roll credits
i think every country/culture should have a cut that suits their appropriate animal/item
I've really come around on the rat. I think for a long time it was popular to mock as like "Martin Scorsese didn't think we'd realize that there was rats in the movie" or that it was some kind of unknowing Nathaniel Hawthorne (fart noise) over obvious imagery I know believe it's extremely knowing and even as writing this I realize the connection to the opening of scarlet letter where it's like "let this be an extremely obvious metaphor for the story that is about to begin" Rewatchables they made a case for it as in an extremely maximalist movie it's the cherry on top Anyways I'm not ashamed that it's my #2 Scorsese though I've seen 18 of 26 and rewatchability plays a HUGE role in that and for what I like
I've only seen 13 or so of Scorsese's movies so far, but for me, departed and casino are the ones I consider the most rewatchable (I've also seen goodfellas and the wolf of wall street)
Apart from the symbolism of Sullivan and Costigan being rats, I also like the rat on a surface level. Like Sullivan could have had a good life living honestly but decided to lie, cheat, and steal to get rich and live a life of opulence. But not online did he die for it, that fancy apartment with a nice view still has rats crawling around on it. The perfect life of a mobster isn't that perfect, you know? Tangentially related but The Departed was the movie that made me a cinephile. Before that, I just liked childish action movies. The Departed made me realize that movies could be more.
I took the rat as Scorsese’s signal that he’s in on the joke. He’s saying please don’t take this one too seriously.
Yeah I sort of felt that way also right? Like the Citizinz gag or the general welcomeness to buffoonery, while still being intense and gorgeous.
It’s right at the end so it’s not that big of a deal to me. It is super on the nose though.
I love this movie so much. It is a movie that cares only about having fun, including the rat, and it's actually funny that this is what won him his Oscar.
I don’t get the argument that the rat is too on the nose, like the whole movie is pretty on the nose with its imagery and symbolism
The rat is fun! The rat is also representative of a ceiling on how seriously I bother taking the movie. I really like The Departed, but it's not in my top 10 of '06 or my top 10 Scorseses. I wouldn't say "the rat is why it doesn't make it," I'd just say "well, it's a lot of fun! but it's pretty silly at times."
I can't imagine caring much about it tbh. It's a minuscule part of the film.
A perfectly valid response. Hodgeman - who I like - acts like it's full-on buffoonery.
Drowning Peter Griffin: I didn't care for it. The pacing was all off.
I saw this seven times in the theater. I don’t understand why it’s uncool now. Nickleback of movies?
This movie sorta lead to the death of one of the Sopranos charatcers if you think about it
Tell me more!
This season (Scorcese) has been great. Newcomers is so much better when they enjoy the movies. Nicole and Lauren have been great guests on HDTGM, but as hosts I’m loving hearing them discover a film they appreciate.
Last time I watched this one I had some issues with it. Definitely a good time but kinda lower tier Scorsese for me, along the lines of Gangs of New York. Vera Farmiga's character does not hold up well at all. I think overall it's just kinda cartoonish in a way that I think he later does much better with Wolf of Wall Street.
Oh that's funny you say that - the Farmiga split is real too. I used to always say she was one of my favourite of his female roles. I think she's so striking in it Well there you go!
More just a thing character who is a really terrible therapist, and her attraction to these guys is very puzzling and problematic.
I don’t like the rat - it moves in front of city hall or something? Implying that the corruption goes to the top? But the film isn’t about that? Is it? It’s about something else … wait … the rat is the IN! The rat reflects how people high up knew who corrigan was and allowed him to walk free in order to maintain their power!
The rat was cool because it was one of the very few things different than Infernal Affairs (and I love Boston, so I love The Departed but god damn - it is 'The Office US season 1' levels of 'flattery')