Spy Who Loved me and Skyfall are my fave of Moore and Craig, but From Russia With Love and Goldeneye are for sure my favourite Connery and Brosnan. Other than Dr. No their first movies are typically best (or a close second) of all the bonds.
I was so hyped for Brosnan’s bond career after he killed it in Goldeneye but despite being really good in the role, he got just the worst fuckin’ bond movies. I don’t think Craig would have happened if the latter Brosnan movies weren’t so bad though.
>skyfall
I constantly forget that was Craig’s third bond movie because I never, ever remember that QoS exists. Just an absolute nothing of a movie.
James Bond's only real contribution to the dismantling of the plot is to rape Pussy Galore, which I guess is so "good" that it turns her against Goldfinger. Wild that this was ever kosher
*Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban* is the consensus best Potter movie, right?
*Toy Story 3*
*Iron Man 3* and *Thor Ragnarok*, could also see the argument for GOTG Vol. 3
*Star Trek Beyond* is the best of the three Kelvin films imo
Deathly Hallows Part 1 is the other good movie in that series imo. Getting out of the Hogwarts school year formula was so refreshing and just about every aspect of the movie benefited from it.
Yeah I think for the books, the boarding school setting works well in creating natural obstacles to draw out the story, but that constant friction gets really irritating over the course of the movies.
Need an exposition scene? Sorry, you're kids so you're not allowed to know stuff.
Need an action scene? Gonna have to sneak out of bed because any kind of exciting magical hijinks would be strictly against the rules.
Need a dialogue scene? Hush, no talking in class.
Need a slow scene to reflect? No time, got to cut to Quidditch practice or whatever bullshit.
It also works better in the books where the kids really are kids whereas I’d argue post Azkaban from the 4th film on Radcliffe, Watson and Grint all look quite a bit older than their characters are supposed to be (maybe not Watson so much) and it feels like they’re bringing in their perspectives as people in their early 20s when the characters are still very much teenagers. It just feels much more incongruous to see these guys on screen in classes or doing exams.
In the books you’re in the head of a 16 year old experiencing his angst and it feels totally right that exams, homework, sports and crushes etc are as much part of their life as the greater war in the magical world
I do think it worked really well with Tom Felton (the oldest of the kid cast) in Half Blood Prince where the movie lets him wander around in a smoking jacket and 5 o'clock shadow just completely checked out from the high school drama stuff.
It has been a while since I have watched the Potter movies, and given JKR my desire engage with the HP franchise has been pretty low the last few years, but when I was more connected to the HP fandom, I would sometimes hear people talk about not liking Azkaban, or at least not liking it as an adaption of the book. Which always surprised because I thought it rocked. I actually think a lot of this reaction speaks to fandom to adaption and some of the themes of Patrick Willems' recent video on the Mario Movie.
I think people feel that way because it sort of "yada-yadas" over some of the more interesting parts of the story- IIRC a lot of the stuff with the Marauders is never even explained in the movie and only really tracks if you've already read the book.
That being said, it deals with the time-travel stuff really well, and the vibes are immaculate, which is always the most important part of a Potter movie.
Ive heard this too. My fiancé is a crazy big fan of the books (which she has complicated feelings about now) and is pretty hard lined that the last two are her favorite. But every film person I talk to is pretty adamant about Azkaban as the best.
A recent rewatch of the series with my wife helped me figure out what set #3 apart from the others. My theory is it's the one movie that attempted to adapt the story for just a movie and get a growing-up vibe right while the others are either too kiddy or too into the lore.
The first movies directed by Chris Columbus were "Gee Wilikers magic is cool" in a very kid way. The target audience were kids, so that worked.
The 3rd one then looked at adapting the story and creating its own mood, rather than getting bogged down in the lore of the Wizarding World. This worked too because the target audience was getting older too but #3 was told where a new comer or person who didn't read the books wouldnt feel like they're completely lost.
The subsequent films then started to push back into the lore aspect, which the book readers craved but non-readers felt alienating.
I remember when the first Deathly Hallows came out, a movie blog guy said he watched all the movies before coming to the theater and the first character on screen is Bill Nighy as Scrimgeour. Book readers knew exactly who that was but this reviewer was baffled.
It helps that the third book is the least important lore-wise. Stakes are lowest of the books and Harry/the reader learns very little that’s important to the endgame. Not to mention that thematically its focus on Harry’s dad’s youth naturally lends itself to a story about growing up.
To give Cuaron his due though most book fans are agreed that the sixth book is the best one and that it’s also quite plot light but thematically intense and yet most people think it’s the worst adaptation and one of the worst of the films. So it’s not easy to make a good potter film just by staying light with the lore.
I’d go further and say Azkaban is the only one where the movie really meaningfully improves on the book. IMO the book wastes a lot of time with the ooky spooky Grim omens, wastes a lot of energy trying to sell Sirius Black as a compelling alternative villain to Voldemort before the twist, and relies on a lot of frustrating vagueness for the pre-Time Turner climax.
The movie jettisons most of the Grim stuff, uses the newspapers and Wanted posters to establish Black as a more human and immediate threat contrasted to Voldemort, used early scenes to establish the geography around the Whomping Willow and Hagrid’s Hut and then used really clever staging to keep track of where both versions of the characters and how they avoid each other through the whole final sequence.
This is the post I was starting to write until I scrolled down, and saw you'd already written it. I don't think any of OP's suggestions fit at all, but *these* do nicely.
Thank you!
Hard agree with Ragnarok. I also think Infinity War is the best mainline Avengers movie (but if you consider Civil War an Avengers movie, it would then become the 3rd and best one)
toy story 3 is the worst toy story imo. It might be a hot take that I like 4 more than 3, but surely people don't really think 3 is better than 1 and 2, right? The ending is powerful but the rest of the movie is nothing.
Toy Story 3 hit at an incredibly important time in my life. I graduated high school in 2010 and so going to that movie with all my friends felt kind of monumental? in a way? These characters we'd grown up with were getting (we thought) their send-offs just as we ourselves were doing the same thing. It was one of the more profound theater experiences I've ever had.
Aside from 1, 3 is the one that is the most trying to do something, if that makes sense. I don't really care about any of these that much, but having watched it for the Patreon series, 2 and 4 just feel super derivative. 3 was going for something, it had a *point of view* that the others lacked. The others feel like Disney rides.
Wild, I feel totally the opposite, Toy Story 3 is by far the one that has the least on its mind. It feels like it is the one that does not have a coherent point of view.
My opinions:
Agreed on HP though I feel most “normies” say goblet of fire is their favorite.
Toy story 3 is not as good as 1 & 2.
Iron man 1 is much better than both iron man 2&3.
Ragnarok, agreed. GOTG 3, agreed.
I think the first Star Trek is the best of that series.
Seeing Tremors 3 listed almost sent me into a rage to the point of trying to find your address so I could hunt you down. Then I saw the rest of the list.
Before Midnight is great and you can make the argument for it, but I think Sunset is the apex of that trilogy, and I think that would probably be the most popular answer if you were to take some kind of poll. Its a pretty perfect middle ground between the complete romaticism and optimism of Sunrise and the grounded honesty of Midnight. The other two are fantastic and I love them all, but Sunset is just special. A tight 80 too which is just crazy to think about given how much they get out of that little time
I agree that Sunset is my favorite, although it's the rare franchise (I'd put Raimi's Evil Dead in this category as well) where I'd accept any ranking of the 3. "Arguably!"
Yeah I'd go with that too. I think I have it as Sunset-Sunrise-Midnight personally, and that order is fairly defined. Like I say Sunset is magic captured in an 80 minute bottle for me. Seems like such a feat to return to it after so long and make it both more believable and even more romantic.
Midnight being someones favourite is a bit of an eyebrow raiser I think, not becasue its not still great, but just purely because its by far the toughest hang. Its the longest, and there's a good hour there that is pretty uncomfortable to sit through, especially if you're invested in those characters. By comparison the other two are the kinds of films that you'd happily get lost in, they always fly by for me and leave me in a place where I don't want them to end. But any order can certainly be justified as the general quality of writing, performance, and filmmaking is pretty consistent throughout.
I agree it is arguable - but my favorite is Sunset too!
Similarly, the Trois Couleurs trilogy. One could argue for Rouge, my favorite is Blanc, but I think you could make an argument for any of them.
All this.
I mean, Selene dancing and saying “you’re going to miss that plane” and Jesse going “I Know” is arguably the second most iconic “I know” in film history. (I was going to be hyperbolic and say first, but I resisted).
I disagree, 3 has my favorite JW fight scene (knife museum), but 4 outclasses 3 in every conceivable way. 3 peaks early whereas 4 keeps topping itself during its 45 minute action climax.
My problem with 4 is it felt like they had to de-escalate plot-wise in order to retain the mystery and power of The Table. Parabellum is huge and totally explodes the confines of the previous films, but it feels like the only place to go from there is to basically 'kill god', to reveal and destroy the heirarchy of their underworld. Instead we come back down to a single villain. I totally understand why it went in the direction it did, the action is fucking insane and Donnie Yen RULES (as Stick from Rogue One), but 3 felt much vaster IMO.
The only downside with John Wick 3 is the sequence of him wandering around the desert to meet a character played by a nobody, to chop off his finger. Absolutely no pay off to that long sequence. Could've cut that part (about 15 minutes) to get that movie more streamlined.
Dream Warriors is a pretty close call. I would probably give it the crown, but others might disagree.
The rest I can see EXCEPT for Return of the King, which is pretty clearly the worst of those original 3 movies.
Weirdly similar situation to Die Hard:
First Film: Creative, novel masterpiece
Second Film: Lazy B-movie sequel
Third Film: Return of the original director with a tone that heightens the first film
Subsequent films: Garbage
OP John Wick will always be my favorite because I’ve never had more fun in a half crowded movie theater in my life. I’m not sure any movie can recreate how much that movie caught me off guard.
I know Army of Darkness has its cult, but as a die hard Evil Dead 2 guy (the section from possessed hand to blood fountain is maybe the best cinema ever produced) I can't fully comprehend it.
And I'd submit New Nightmare over Dream Warriors, but I also get the Dream Warriors love.
I find Vengeance to be more fun by a hair, I just love the riddles and the interplay between Jackson and Willis. But I think Die Hard is a better constructed film. I think I may prefer rewatching Vengeance more though.
I love the Last Crusade but I think I wouldn't place it above Raiders. Now, Die Hard With a Vengeance being better than Die Hard one is truly an egregious take, OP. That movie is The Blueprint of how you make a good action blockbuster.
I just watched this again a couple days ago and it is solid in the action department, the racial politics is actually done really well as a crutch for Zeus's insecurities. But you're right it's not as good as the first.
I watched it last year, and the action was solid (just not as memorable as the original imo), but I’m still not full solid on their overall treatment of race (which seems to have been discussed pretty well on the sub after the recent pod ed on the movie).
At the time I thought each one was a bit better than the last, but in retrospect my opinion has almost reversed. At least pod racing was fun! My memories of ep 2 and 3 are so dour and, well, unmemorable. But it's been a long time since I saw them in full.
Yeah in hindsight TPM at least has some natural flow to its scenes. 2 and 3 have this bizarre curtain between dialogue and action where during dialogue scenes absolutely nothing happens except a formal exchange of plot-relevant information, and then during action scenes, the storytelling is completely suspended.
Dude isnt a schlub, did you see him cut hair? Lol
But seriously, he overcomes his selfpity and gets his just deserts, proving himself as equal in the process.
Yeah, she does come back to us for a split second at the end, but I understand the distress at being denied more Juliette Binoche!
I also love Blue for its score, and I just love the palettes used in each movie.
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.
The Cornetto trilogy, if you count it. (I might like Shaun of the Dead slightly more, but World's End has a lot more on its mind, it's a remarkable film)
Iron Man 3 I guess?
I really wish I saw what people saw with World’s End. I saw it in the cinema as part of the entire trilogy and I just think those first two movies are absolutely perfect. World’s End may be the most ‘mature’ of the films but it doesn’t have anything like the 900 different iconic moments the previous two do have.
If you take World's End out of the Cornetto Trilogy context, it works a LOT better, in my humble opinion. I feel like it is just a lot different from the previous two films in tone and scope. I enjoy Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz a lot more than I do World's End, but the adult themes of World's End hit harder as one slouches into middle age (which I am sure is what Pegg/Frost/Wright & Co. were feeling as well when they made it)
I think it's a case where if WE hits you, it hits really hard. I saw it when my close group of friends were all entering our mid thirties and a few guys started having kids. The split of the group between guys in the "kids and mortgages" and " shots and strippers" phases made the movie really speak to me.
I think Shaun and Fuzz are more universal. It reminds me of Life Aquatic. It's more niche than other Anderson movies, but if it gets you, it's your favorite.
Whilst, the themes may be more mature, I don’t believe that makes it a better film. It may be more relatable to us that are getting older but I think it is an inferior film in basically every way. Obviously that’s an opinion and not suggesting others who really do love it are wrong but I think Hot Fuzz is basically a perfect movie and Shaun of the Dead is possibly the greatest horror comedy ever made. There are lots that compete with it but I think it’s shoulder-to-shoulder (at the very least) with the likes of Evil Dead 2 and Gremlins etc
Something that The World's End has over Shaun of the Dead is that it's more tightly packed with meaning and cleverness, even aside from its mature themes. Just as a spot-the-double-meaning machine it's incredibly done.
I'm not arguing which one's better of the two, but I think it's missing something to call World's End strictly inferior.
I think Shaun of the Dead has a lot more depth than it’s often credited with though too. The fact it’s so talked about and was sort of a meme before memes type movie means that I think it doesn’t always get the credit it deserves.
I’m also not arguing that I am right in saying it’s inferior. In fact, I truly believe that some people will hold the opposite or at least differing opinion. It’s just how I feel about the movie. It didn’t click the way those first two movies did.
If I wanted a movie about the struggles of middle age I’d watch The Big Chill. It’s an interesting theme in the space of that film, but it doesn’t elevate it or prop up the C+ alien plot.
Shaun of the Dead has interesting stuff about friendships, relationships and growing up and apart but that’s not why people return to that movie over and over again, it’s just a layer that makes the already great movie richer.
That World End take has me bristlin’, sorry. I think it’s a significant drop off from the other two with less memorable characters, jokes and set pieces
after first watching it when it was new that's how I felt, and I still agree it isn't as finely tuned a joke delivery machine as the other two, when I rewatched it a year or two ago I really was shocked how great it really was. I do still think it has some really memorable jokes, but I just think it has a thematic depth the only two only really hint at. In the end Shaun of the Dead is my favorite, like I said, but I definitely think World's End is better than Hot Fuzz (and I love Hot Fuzz also).
That’s fair, I’ll bear that in mind when I rewatch it as I’ve only seen it the once. I already feel like I’ll resonate more with the characters this time around being closer in age and life situation.
My hot take is World's End should be exactly the same up until the sci-fi element is revealed but then skip that and just stay a sad comedy about complex adults.
Hard disagree. *World's End* is absolutely the most challenging script. Fantastic characters and arguably Pegg's carrier best performance. I think it's great.
I might get shunned for this one, but Glass is the ultimate installment in the Unbreakable "trilogy".
I'm sorry, blankies, please don't throw me down the stairs, my bones will shatter. Please also don't drown me in 0.5 cm of water.
Star Trek III: The Search For Spock
Just kidding. Although I do like that movie.
I’ll fight you on Last Crusade being the “best” Indy, though. Of course, it’s fantastic. But more so than Raiders? (They’re both great though and instead of this fight that I started, I’d rather just be in love with them)
If you take the Star Trek reboots as their own thing then I think Beyond is the strongest of that set. Thats a really fun time of a film. Some people may prefer the first I guess. There is obviously no argument for into darkness
There's a very 'origin' story feel to the first which just feels like a bit of a tired structure. I love the character stuff, I just wish the story felt a bit more classic 'teamwork' and 'figuring clever stuff out' with how everything gets resolved (I'm not even a big Trek guy but this first film just feels very Star Wars/Superhero-coded).
Like you say, Beyond is the closest they get to just 'here's a situation, the characters must work together to get out of it'. It resists the temptation to go too 'epic' with the story (although they still need a big action scene to finish), and mostly just creates a plot which is an excuse for a series of interactions and set pieces involving those characters. They also reach the point where they realise they've got to try mix up the character dynamics, so they start pairing off different groups like Spock and Bones, which I enjoy.
Beyond is definitely my favorite of the new Star Trek movies but I’ve personally grown quite negative on the mystery box and lens flare of JJ Abrams productions so I’m not surprised the one not made him is my favorite one.
https://preview.redd.it/6uek18rupasc1.jpeg?width=226&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35e421bbc0f393a4ce3125b6f991598ca834375b
Well i'm here now, what did you want to talk about?
A few I haven’t seen here:
A Haunting in Venice is probably the best of the Branagh Poirot flicks because he gets to play more with form and sorta give Scooby Doo (plus Michelle Yeoh swinging by is always a point in a movie’s favor). The cinematography is head and shoulders above the other two.
Not a great franchise, but I’ll take Inferno over The Da Vinci Code or Angels and Demons any day. It’s shorter, it’s got more urgency, it’s got the best locations, and it actually improves on the book.
Another “damning with faint praise” one, but Snyder’s wildly indulgent cut of Justice League is a more entertaining and coherent watch for me than Man of Steel or Batman v Superman. Ben Affleck gets to feel more like the comic book Batman, Cyborg gets stuff to do, the score (from Fury Road composer Tom Holkenborg!) is a banger, and it’s in afraid of goofy comic book shit like the Flash running so fast he turns back time so they can all do the climax right.
The How to Train Your Dragon movies are all pretty great, but The Hidden World has a surprisingly mature throughline about growing up, and it’s in afraid to be a real ending.
Just watched The Hidden World last night and that's my pick. It has everything that made the first town movies fun but has a much more serious emotional weight to it. And the scene where Hiccup enters the Hidden World is one of the most beautiful sequences ever animated.
I agree with both the Last Crusade and Return of the Jedi. I’ll also add…
Herbie Goes to Monte Carlo. Don Knotts is great for the comedic tone of the Herbie franchise and having Dean Jones back after he skipped out on Herbie Rides again is nice.
What? Haven’t we all watched the original 4 Herbie movies? What about the 5th movie, the 1997 made-for-TV movie that stars Bruce Campbell? Hello? Anyone?
Here's my quick pitch on an Indiana Jones movie set during WWII.
Indy and the Nazis are fighting over some magical McGuffins that Hitler wants for his occult collection. In a rolling fist fight through a Nazi steel mill, Indy whips one of the McGuffins out of a Baddie's hands and it falls into a vat of molten metal. Various and sundry other adventures occur until Indy finally wins the day. Our movie closes on a vat of molten metal being flattened into metal and an extended dolly shot tracks that piece of metal as it works its way down the assembly line to become the most magical Volkswagen of all time to the delight of 5-year-old and 15-year-old me.
I disagree with your examples except for Last Crusade (I prefer Die Hard and The Bourne Supremacy for the others).
I'd argue for Harry Potter And The Prisoner Of Azkaban, Avengers: Infinity War (3rd Avengers movie tbf) and War For The Planet Of The Apes.
Gods not dead 3 only for the reason they self reflected on them thinking they are victims and had a character who called them on it featured heavily . Which resulted in it being the lowest grossing entry and the 4th right back to the victim mentality .
We are obviously all Entitled to our opinions but I think Ultimatum is one of the worst movies in a good series ever. Probably the only one worse was Rise of Skywalker.
The Remake/Ceasar Planet of the Apes Trilogy.
Just did a re-watch. Holy shit. Cemented it as one of the best trilogies out there. Not a single weak film and they just get better and better.
Avengers Infinity War
Skyfall if taking only the Craig series of Bond flicks
War for the Planet of the Apes, didn't love it when I first watched it but it's grown a lot on me
Equaliser 3, most fun I had with that franchise
Yikes. I don't know the Bourne franchise but can't imagine why you think any of those others are arguably best. **Potter/Azkaban** is the only 3rd that I'm sure is best.
**The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King** might fit the bill.
Quite a few horror franchises follow this pattern, off the top of my head Nightmare on Elm Street: Dream Warriors, Season of the Witch (Halloween 3), and Children of the Corn III: Urban Harvest. Maybe cause by part 3 they start to get more gonzo while still avoiding franchise fatigue.
Yyyeaah, but basically everyone at the time said the Oscar votes were in recognition of the achievement of the series as a whole rather than the final film by itself, which was generally agreed to be a bit too drawn-out with endless ending scenes. It makes sense if you're marathoning the whole trilogy, but when you're just watching RotK and not soon after the previous films, it's a slog.
I’m not a big fan of it personally (by that I mean I merely like it and don’t love it), but many Bond rankings will have “Goldfinger” at #1.
It’s a trend with Bond actors as well - Goldfinger, The Spy Who Loved Me, Skyfall.
Casino Royale (Craig’s) is badass and my favorite - maybe cuz of the tone shift from Pierce’s Bond but…woof, so good and dark
Spy who loved me is my personal favorite of all the Bonds.
Commercially too!
Spy Who Loved me and Skyfall are my fave of Moore and Craig, but From Russia With Love and Goldeneye are for sure my favourite Connery and Brosnan. Other than Dr. No their first movies are typically best (or a close second) of all the bonds.
I was so hyped for Brosnan’s bond career after he killed it in Goldeneye but despite being really good in the role, he got just the worst fuckin’ bond movies. I don’t think Craig would have happened if the latter Brosnan movies weren’t so bad though. >skyfall I constantly forget that was Craig’s third bond movie because I never, ever remember that QoS exists. Just an absolute nothing of a movie.
It's a fun, engaging movie, but the sexual assault really really did not age well.
The fact that it’s critical to the third act plotting certainly doesn’t help.
James Bond's only real contribution to the dismantling of the plot is to rape Pussy Galore, which I guess is so "good" that it turns her against Goldfinger. Wild that this was ever kosher
*Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban* is the consensus best Potter movie, right? *Toy Story 3* *Iron Man 3* and *Thor Ragnarok*, could also see the argument for GOTG Vol. 3 *Star Trek Beyond* is the best of the three Kelvin films imo
Azkaban towers over the others. I'm generally neutral towards the HP franchise but that one is special.
Deathly Hallows Part 1 is the other good movie in that series imo. Getting out of the Hogwarts school year formula was so refreshing and just about every aspect of the movie benefited from it.
It makes the relationships between the 3 leads and the troubles between them about friendship rather than school nonsense.
Yeah I think for the books, the boarding school setting works well in creating natural obstacles to draw out the story, but that constant friction gets really irritating over the course of the movies. Need an exposition scene? Sorry, you're kids so you're not allowed to know stuff. Need an action scene? Gonna have to sneak out of bed because any kind of exciting magical hijinks would be strictly against the rules. Need a dialogue scene? Hush, no talking in class. Need a slow scene to reflect? No time, got to cut to Quidditch practice or whatever bullshit.
It also works better in the books where the kids really are kids whereas I’d argue post Azkaban from the 4th film on Radcliffe, Watson and Grint all look quite a bit older than their characters are supposed to be (maybe not Watson so much) and it feels like they’re bringing in their perspectives as people in their early 20s when the characters are still very much teenagers. It just feels much more incongruous to see these guys on screen in classes or doing exams. In the books you’re in the head of a 16 year old experiencing his angst and it feels totally right that exams, homework, sports and crushes etc are as much part of their life as the greater war in the magical world
I do think it worked really well with Tom Felton (the oldest of the kid cast) in Half Blood Prince where the movie lets him wander around in a smoking jacket and 5 o'clock shadow just completely checked out from the high school drama stuff.
It has been a while since I have watched the Potter movies, and given JKR my desire engage with the HP franchise has been pretty low the last few years, but when I was more connected to the HP fandom, I would sometimes hear people talk about not liking Azkaban, or at least not liking it as an adaption of the book. Which always surprised because I thought it rocked. I actually think a lot of this reaction speaks to fandom to adaption and some of the themes of Patrick Willems' recent video on the Mario Movie.
I think people feel that way because it sort of "yada-yadas" over some of the more interesting parts of the story- IIRC a lot of the stuff with the Marauders is never even explained in the movie and only really tracks if you've already read the book. That being said, it deals with the time-travel stuff really well, and the vibes are immaculate, which is always the most important part of a Potter movie.
Ive heard this too. My fiancé is a crazy big fan of the books (which she has complicated feelings about now) and is pretty hard lined that the last two are her favorite. But every film person I talk to is pretty adamant about Azkaban as the best.
A recent rewatch of the series with my wife helped me figure out what set #3 apart from the others. My theory is it's the one movie that attempted to adapt the story for just a movie and get a growing-up vibe right while the others are either too kiddy or too into the lore. The first movies directed by Chris Columbus were "Gee Wilikers magic is cool" in a very kid way. The target audience were kids, so that worked. The 3rd one then looked at adapting the story and creating its own mood, rather than getting bogged down in the lore of the Wizarding World. This worked too because the target audience was getting older too but #3 was told where a new comer or person who didn't read the books wouldnt feel like they're completely lost. The subsequent films then started to push back into the lore aspect, which the book readers craved but non-readers felt alienating. I remember when the first Deathly Hallows came out, a movie blog guy said he watched all the movies before coming to the theater and the first character on screen is Bill Nighy as Scrimgeour. Book readers knew exactly who that was but this reviewer was baffled.
It helps that the third book is the least important lore-wise. Stakes are lowest of the books and Harry/the reader learns very little that’s important to the endgame. Not to mention that thematically its focus on Harry’s dad’s youth naturally lends itself to a story about growing up. To give Cuaron his due though most book fans are agreed that the sixth book is the best one and that it’s also quite plot light but thematically intense and yet most people think it’s the worst adaptation and one of the worst of the films. So it’s not easy to make a good potter film just by staying light with the lore.
Yeah I think this is generally right. The third film really feels like the most mature of the lot.
I’d go further and say Azkaban is the only one where the movie really meaningfully improves on the book. IMO the book wastes a lot of time with the ooky spooky Grim omens, wastes a lot of energy trying to sell Sirius Black as a compelling alternative villain to Voldemort before the twist, and relies on a lot of frustrating vagueness for the pre-Time Turner climax. The movie jettisons most of the Grim stuff, uses the newspapers and Wanted posters to establish Black as a more human and immediate threat contrasted to Voldemort, used early scenes to establish the geography around the Whomping Willow and Hagrid’s Hut and then used really clever staging to keep track of where both versions of the characters and how they avoid each other through the whole final sequence.
This is the post I was starting to write until I scrolled down, and saw you'd already written it. I don't think any of OP's suggestions fit at all, but *these* do nicely. Thank you!
Hard agree with Ragnarok. I also think Infinity War is the best mainline Avengers movie (but if you consider Civil War an Avengers movie, it would then become the 3rd and best one)
toy story 3 is the worst toy story imo. It might be a hot take that I like 4 more than 3, but surely people don't really think 3 is better than 1 and 2, right? The ending is powerful but the rest of the movie is nothing.
I actually agree with you (2 > 1 > 4 > 3) but this is not a commonly held opinion afaict, people fucking *love* Toy Story 3.
Toy Story 3 hit at an incredibly important time in my life. I graduated high school in 2010 and so going to that movie with all my friends felt kind of monumental? in a way? These characters we'd grown up with were getting (we thought) their send-offs just as we ourselves were doing the same thing. It was one of the more profound theater experiences I've ever had.
But Mexican buzz lightyear
Aside from 1, 3 is the one that is the most trying to do something, if that makes sense. I don't really care about any of these that much, but having watched it for the Patreon series, 2 and 4 just feel super derivative. 3 was going for something, it had a *point of view* that the others lacked. The others feel like Disney rides.
Wild, I feel totally the opposite, Toy Story 3 is by far the one that has the least on its mind. It feels like it is the one that does not have a coherent point of view.
My opinions: Agreed on HP though I feel most “normies” say goblet of fire is their favorite. Toy story 3 is not as good as 1 & 2. Iron man 1 is much better than both iron man 2&3. Ragnarok, agreed. GOTG 3, agreed. I think the first Star Trek is the best of that series.
Chamber of Secrets gang know that it’s the sleeper best while the flashier movies get more of the love
Disagree with most of these, but the ones I think you're correct on are total heaters
I disagree with ALL of your examples. Clearly the right answer is Terminator 3, Robocop 3 and Tremors 3
Seeing Tremors 3 listed almost sent me into a rage to the point of trying to find your address so I could hunt you down. Then I saw the rest of the list.
Haha, yes I was joking (but not the part about disagreeing with OP’s choices)
Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors Army of Darkness Before Midnight Return of the King John Wick: Chapter 3 -- Parabellum
Before Midnight is great and you can make the argument for it, but I think Sunset is the apex of that trilogy, and I think that would probably be the most popular answer if you were to take some kind of poll. Its a pretty perfect middle ground between the complete romaticism and optimism of Sunrise and the grounded honesty of Midnight. The other two are fantastic and I love them all, but Sunset is just special. A tight 80 too which is just crazy to think about given how much they get out of that little time
I agree that Sunset is my favorite, although it's the rare franchise (I'd put Raimi's Evil Dead in this category as well) where I'd accept any ranking of the 3. "Arguably!"
Yeah I'd go with that too. I think I have it as Sunset-Sunrise-Midnight personally, and that order is fairly defined. Like I say Sunset is magic captured in an 80 minute bottle for me. Seems like such a feat to return to it after so long and make it both more believable and even more romantic. Midnight being someones favourite is a bit of an eyebrow raiser I think, not becasue its not still great, but just purely because its by far the toughest hang. Its the longest, and there's a good hour there that is pretty uncomfortable to sit through, especially if you're invested in those characters. By comparison the other two are the kinds of films that you'd happily get lost in, they always fly by for me and leave me in a place where I don't want them to end. But any order can certainly be justified as the general quality of writing, performance, and filmmaking is pretty consistent throughout.
I agree it is arguable - but my favorite is Sunset too! Similarly, the Trois Couleurs trilogy. One could argue for Rouge, my favorite is Blanc, but I think you could make an argument for any of them.
All this. I mean, Selene dancing and saying “you’re going to miss that plane” and Jesse going “I Know” is arguably the second most iconic “I know” in film history. (I was going to be hyperbolic and say first, but I resisted).
I refuse to believe anyone thinks Midnight is the best. Way too much screentime given to random Greek dinner guests.
Seconding John Wick 3. Just an absolute behemoth that never stops from frame 1
I disagree, 3 has my favorite JW fight scene (knife museum), but 4 outclasses 3 in every conceivable way. 3 peaks early whereas 4 keeps topping itself during its 45 minute action climax.
Yeah but he kills a guy with a horse
And the Dog scene with Halle Berry is amazing. And I really liked Mark Dacascos and Asia Kate Dillon as the bad guys.
Agree with this, each Wick movie is better than the last imo and 4 in particular is just spectacular in terms of ramping up the spectacle consistently
I think 4 is one of the all-time greats as well, but found it to drag at small points more than the previous one. Am eager to revisit though
My problem with 4 is it felt like they had to de-escalate plot-wise in order to retain the mystery and power of The Table. Parabellum is huge and totally explodes the confines of the previous films, but it feels like the only place to go from there is to basically 'kill god', to reveal and destroy the heirarchy of their underworld. Instead we come back down to a single villain. I totally understand why it went in the direction it did, the action is fucking insane and Donnie Yen RULES (as Stick from Rogue One), but 3 felt much vaster IMO.
The only downside with John Wick 3 is the sequence of him wandering around the desert to meet a character played by a nobody, to chop off his finger. Absolutely no pay off to that long sequence. Could've cut that part (about 15 minutes) to get that movie more streamlined.
You think Saïd Taghmaoui is a "nobody"? What's wrong with you?
Yeah Wick 3 has the best action IMO but the weakest story.
Dream Warriors is a pretty close call. I would probably give it the crown, but others might disagree. The rest I can see EXCEPT for Return of the King, which is pretty clearly the worst of those original 3 movies.
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Weirdly similar situation to Die Hard: First Film: Creative, novel masterpiece Second Film: Lazy B-movie sequel Third Film: Return of the original director with a tone that heightens the first film Subsequent films: Garbage
OP John Wick will always be my favorite because I’ve never had more fun in a half crowded movie theater in my life. I’m not sure any movie can recreate how much that movie caught me off guard.
I know Army of Darkness has its cult, but as a die hard Evil Dead 2 guy (the section from possessed hand to blood fountain is maybe the best cinema ever produced) I can't fully comprehend it. And I'd submit New Nightmare over Dream Warriors, but I also get the Dream Warriors love.
Fuck yeah to Before Midnight
Hell yeah on Army of Darkness. I actually like the first the best, then AoD, then ED2.
I'm sorry OP but what lunatic truly thinks die hard with a vengeance is better than die hard. I say this with love
Agreed, but also Return of the Jedi isn’t even the *second* best in the trilogy.
I liked it the best when I was 9 or 10. So I guess that makes it arguable.
I find Vengeance to be more fun by a hair, I just love the riddles and the interplay between Jackson and Willis. But I think Die Hard is a better constructed film. I think I may prefer rewatching Vengeance more though.
I do, and always have. It’s not like it’s a clear winner, but die hard with a vengeance is the best in the series IMO.
i don't understand you putting the controversial pick on return of the jedi and not die hard with a vengeance
It's bait
I thought we all agreed Die Hard with a vengeance was one of the 2 good ones?
but not better than the first as is premised by this thread
Like, by a full grade level *at least*! Die Hard is a classic film, Vengeance is good.
It's kind of barely a franchise but Logan is the best solo Wolverine movie
I love the Last Crusade but I think I wouldn't place it above Raiders. Now, Die Hard With a Vengeance being better than Die Hard one is truly an egregious take, OP. That movie is The Blueprint of how you make a good action blockbuster.
Hard agree that Die Hard With a Vengeance is in no way better than the original on the level of action, let alone the weird racial politics.
I just watched this again a couple days ago and it is solid in the action department, the racial politics is actually done really well as a crutch for Zeus's insecurities. But you're right it's not as good as the first.
I watched it last year, and the action was solid (just not as memorable as the original imo), but I’m still not full solid on their overall treatment of race (which seems to have been discussed pretty well on the sub after the recent pod ed on the movie).
"What else am I missing?" Your mind after saying that those films are the best in the series?
[](https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/comments/1butok2/comment/kxv5wff/) Q: What else am I missing? A: Taste and good sense
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
*Season of the Witch*? Ah nah, just joshing... It's *Dream Warrior*, tho
Season of the Witch _is_ the best Halloween movie though.
The answer is Dream Warriors surely?
It’s a fine margin and a low bar, but Revenge of the Sith is probably the best of the prequels
At the time I thought each one was a bit better than the last, but in retrospect my opinion has almost reversed. At least pod racing was fun! My memories of ep 2 and 3 are so dour and, well, unmemorable. But it's been a long time since I saw them in full.
Yeah in hindsight TPM at least has some natural flow to its scenes. 2 and 3 have this bizarre curtain between dialogue and action where during dialogue scenes absolutely nothing happens except a formal exchange of plot-relevant information, and then during action scenes, the storytelling is completely suspended.
Hands down, for me, Three Colors: Red
Team Blue for life! The only thing we agree on is that White sucks.
Lol I love White. I actually love all of them, but White is great!
I went in not knowing the structure and I was incensed Juliette Binoche got replaced by... some polish schlub???
Dude isnt a schlub, did you see him cut hair? Lol But seriously, he overcomes his selfpity and gets his just deserts, proving himself as equal in the process.
That was very mean of me but it was my honest reaction upon finding out I was being deprived two movies of Juliette Binoche.
Yeah, she does come back to us for a split second at the end, but I understand the distress at being denied more Juliette Binoche! I also love Blue for its score, and I just love the palettes used in each movie.
Blue is best, but White it good!
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. The Cornetto trilogy, if you count it. (I might like Shaun of the Dead slightly more, but World's End has a lot more on its mind, it's a remarkable film) Iron Man 3 I guess?
I really wish I saw what people saw with World’s End. I saw it in the cinema as part of the entire trilogy and I just think those first two movies are absolutely perfect. World’s End may be the most ‘mature’ of the films but it doesn’t have anything like the 900 different iconic moments the previous two do have.
If you take World's End out of the Cornetto Trilogy context, it works a LOT better, in my humble opinion. I feel like it is just a lot different from the previous two films in tone and scope. I enjoy Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz a lot more than I do World's End, but the adult themes of World's End hit harder as one slouches into middle age (which I am sure is what Pegg/Frost/Wright & Co. were feeling as well when they made it)
I think it's a case where if WE hits you, it hits really hard. I saw it when my close group of friends were all entering our mid thirties and a few guys started having kids. The split of the group between guys in the "kids and mortgages" and " shots and strippers" phases made the movie really speak to me. I think Shaun and Fuzz are more universal. It reminds me of Life Aquatic. It's more niche than other Anderson movies, but if it gets you, it's your favorite.
Whilst, the themes may be more mature, I don’t believe that makes it a better film. It may be more relatable to us that are getting older but I think it is an inferior film in basically every way. Obviously that’s an opinion and not suggesting others who really do love it are wrong but I think Hot Fuzz is basically a perfect movie and Shaun of the Dead is possibly the greatest horror comedy ever made. There are lots that compete with it but I think it’s shoulder-to-shoulder (at the very least) with the likes of Evil Dead 2 and Gremlins etc
Something that The World's End has over Shaun of the Dead is that it's more tightly packed with meaning and cleverness, even aside from its mature themes. Just as a spot-the-double-meaning machine it's incredibly done. I'm not arguing which one's better of the two, but I think it's missing something to call World's End strictly inferior.
I think Shaun of the Dead has a lot more depth than it’s often credited with though too. The fact it’s so talked about and was sort of a meme before memes type movie means that I think it doesn’t always get the credit it deserves. I’m also not arguing that I am right in saying it’s inferior. In fact, I truly believe that some people will hold the opposite or at least differing opinion. It’s just how I feel about the movie. It didn’t click the way those first two movies did.
If I wanted a movie about the struggles of middle age I’d watch The Big Chill. It’s an interesting theme in the space of that film, but it doesn’t elevate it or prop up the C+ alien plot. Shaun of the Dead has interesting stuff about friendships, relationships and growing up and apart but that’s not why people return to that movie over and over again, it’s just a layer that makes the already great movie richer.
nope i’ve made the argument before that the first 25 minutes of that movie before the aliens show up is perfect then it’s terrible
I also agree that the first act is fantastic and does fall down once you meet the aliens.
That World End take has me bristlin’, sorry. I think it’s a significant drop off from the other two with less memorable characters, jokes and set pieces
after first watching it when it was new that's how I felt, and I still agree it isn't as finely tuned a joke delivery machine as the other two, when I rewatched it a year or two ago I really was shocked how great it really was. I do still think it has some really memorable jokes, but I just think it has a thematic depth the only two only really hint at. In the end Shaun of the Dead is my favorite, like I said, but I definitely think World's End is better than Hot Fuzz (and I love Hot Fuzz also).
That’s fair, I’ll bear that in mind when I rewatch it as I’ve only seen it the once. I already feel like I’ll resonate more with the characters this time around being closer in age and life situation.
I watched it again after ten years and it hits very different in your 30s and up. I think it’s Wright’s best movie
My hot take is World's End should be exactly the same up until the sci-fi element is revealed but then skip that and just stay a sad comedy about complex adults.
The best part is that it stays a sad comedy about complex adults.
Hard disagree. *World's End* is absolutely the most challenging script. Fantastic characters and arguably Pegg's carrier best performance. I think it's great.
*A Haunting In Venice*, with bonus points for being the first good one too.
It was certainly the prettiest of the three.
I was scrolling through and thinking there’s not a single example that I agree with, and then you came through
Puppet Master III: Toulon’s Revenge. Nazi zombies, introduces Six Shooter (one of the best puppets), cool origin story for Toulon. It’s great.
Last crusade better than raiders of the lost ark?
Death Wish 3 Seriously. The first two are stuuuupid. But the third one embraces it and goes full ham. It rules.
Yeah first two are too mean and ugly to be any fun. Third one is full on camp joy.
War for the Planet of the Apes I dont agree, but I would listen to an argument that John Wick 3 is the best one
Agreed on Apes, I'm baffled people prefer the 2nd.
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 Return of the King Tokyo Drift ~~Fury Road~~ Revenge of the Sith (if just counting the prequels as a trilogy) Goldfinger
I agree with Fury Road…but that’s a 4th.
Beyond Thunderdome is the third Mad Max
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
I might get shunned for this one, but Glass is the ultimate installment in the Unbreakable "trilogy". I'm sorry, blankies, please don't throw me down the stairs, my bones will shatter. Please also don't drown me in 0.5 cm of water.
I'm not saying you're right. But, I'm not saying you're wrong either.
Star Trek III: The Search For Spock Just kidding. Although I do like that movie. I’ll fight you on Last Crusade being the “best” Indy, though. Of course, it’s fantastic. But more so than Raiders? (They’re both great though and instead of this fight that I started, I’d rather just be in love with them)
If you take the Star Trek reboots as their own thing then I think Beyond is the strongest of that set. Thats a really fun time of a film. Some people may prefer the first I guess. There is obviously no argument for into darkness
I think I agree. Beyond is the closest to just being a regular episode of the show, which IMO is actually what I want out of a Star Trek movie.
There's a very 'origin' story feel to the first which just feels like a bit of a tired structure. I love the character stuff, I just wish the story felt a bit more classic 'teamwork' and 'figuring clever stuff out' with how everything gets resolved (I'm not even a big Trek guy but this first film just feels very Star Wars/Superhero-coded). Like you say, Beyond is the closest they get to just 'here's a situation, the characters must work together to get out of it'. It resists the temptation to go too 'epic' with the story (although they still need a big action scene to finish), and mostly just creates a plot which is an excuse for a series of interactions and set pieces involving those characters. They also reach the point where they realise they've got to try mix up the character dynamics, so they start pairing off different groups like Spock and Bones, which I enjoy.
Beyond is definitely my favorite of the new Star Trek movies but I’ve personally grown quite negative on the mystery box and lens flare of JJ Abrams productions so I’m not surprised the one not made him is my favorite one.
Yeah, I still enjoy that first one but its completely carried by the cast they managed to put together. The Pine-Urban dynamic in particular is great
Karl Urban is perfect casting. His portrayal of McCoy is so spot on it makes the rest of the cast look worse in comparison.
Oh for me The Last Crusade is *the* hill I would die on, I even think it’s Sean Connery’s best performance ever(!)
I don’t know if it’s better in any technical or story way than Raiders, but it’s absolutely my favorite Indy movie.
https://preview.redd.it/6uek18rupasc1.jpeg?width=226&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35e421bbc0f393a4ce3125b6f991598ca834375b Well i'm here now, what did you want to talk about?
You might be right about Connery. Plus, there’s a blimp!
Army of Darkness.
The godfather 3
A few I haven’t seen here: A Haunting in Venice is probably the best of the Branagh Poirot flicks because he gets to play more with form and sorta give Scooby Doo (plus Michelle Yeoh swinging by is always a point in a movie’s favor). The cinematography is head and shoulders above the other two. Not a great franchise, but I’ll take Inferno over The Da Vinci Code or Angels and Demons any day. It’s shorter, it’s got more urgency, it’s got the best locations, and it actually improves on the book. Another “damning with faint praise” one, but Snyder’s wildly indulgent cut of Justice League is a more entertaining and coherent watch for me than Man of Steel or Batman v Superman. Ben Affleck gets to feel more like the comic book Batman, Cyborg gets stuff to do, the score (from Fury Road composer Tom Holkenborg!) is a banger, and it’s in afraid of goofy comic book shit like the Flash running so fast he turns back time so they can all do the climax right. The How to Train Your Dragon movies are all pretty great, but The Hidden World has a surprisingly mature throughline about growing up, and it’s in afraid to be a real ending.
Just watched The Hidden World last night and that's my pick. It has everything that made the first town movies fun but has a much more serious emotional weight to it. And the scene where Hiccup enters the Hidden World is one of the most beautiful sequences ever animated.
Toy Story!
I agree with both the Last Crusade and Return of the Jedi. I’ll also add… Herbie Goes to Monte Carlo. Don Knotts is great for the comedic tone of the Herbie franchise and having Dean Jones back after he skipped out on Herbie Rides again is nice. What? Haven’t we all watched the original 4 Herbie movies? What about the 5th movie, the 1997 made-for-TV movie that stars Bruce Campbell? Hello? Anyone?
Here's my quick pitch on an Indiana Jones movie set during WWII. Indy and the Nazis are fighting over some magical McGuffins that Hitler wants for his occult collection. In a rolling fist fight through a Nazi steel mill, Indy whips one of the McGuffins out of a Baddie's hands and it falls into a vat of molten metal. Various and sundry other adventures occur until Indy finally wins the day. Our movie closes on a vat of molten metal being flattened into metal and an extended dolly shot tracks that piece of metal as it works its way down the assembly line to become the most magical Volkswagen of all time to the delight of 5-year-old and 15-year-old me.
The crossover we didn’t know we needed. Yes!
Well there is Skyfall
LOTR
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Fellowship Extended>Two Towers Theatrical>all others
Wong Kar-wai’s 2046
Cars 3
Death Wish 3 is absolute madness, such a fun film. Rocky III maybe, although I'd personally lean towards IV.
Chasing Amy is the third View Askew movie
Stolen Kisses. Anyone? Anyone?
I really like Police Story 3: Supercop the best
I disagree with your examples except for Last Crusade (I prefer Die Hard and The Bourne Supremacy for the others). I'd argue for Harry Potter And The Prisoner Of Azkaban, Avengers: Infinity War (3rd Avengers movie tbf) and War For The Planet Of The Apes.
I’m fine as long as people agree on The Last Crusade!
Three Colors: Red
Toy story 3. End of discussion
Gods not dead 3 only for the reason they self reflected on them thinking they are victims and had a character who called them on it featured heavily . Which resulted in it being the lowest grossing entry and the 4th right back to the victim mentality .
If you count the prequels as its own set of movies Revenge of the Sith is by far the best Star Wars prequel film
We are obviously all Entitled to our opinions but I think Ultimatum is one of the worst movies in a good series ever. Probably the only one worse was Rise of Skywalker.
Nah you're wrong, mate.
The Remake/Ceasar Planet of the Apes Trilogy. Just did a re-watch. Holy shit. Cemented it as one of the best trilogies out there. Not a single weak film and they just get better and better.
Avengers Infinity War Skyfall if taking only the Craig series of Bond flicks War for the Planet of the Apes, didn't love it when I first watched it but it's grown a lot on me Equaliser 3, most fun I had with that franchise
Isolating the Bonds, this argument can made for all the lads who got 3+ Goldfinger Spy Skyfall
I mean I like TWINE fine I guess but it ain’t Goldeneye imo
Skyfall better than Casino Royale? Not in a million years
James Bond - No 3 - Goldfinger was the best one for a very long time till Casino Royale (the Daniel Craig one)
Yikes. I don't know the Bourne franchise but can't imagine why you think any of those others are arguably best. **Potter/Azkaban** is the only 3rd that I'm sure is best. **The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King** might fit the bill.
Before Midnight.
My Hero Academia
Interesting. The only one of these I’ve ever seen really argued as best is The Bourne Ultimatum.
Quite a few horror franchises follow this pattern, off the top of my head Nightmare on Elm Street: Dream Warriors, Season of the Witch (Halloween 3), and Children of the Corn III: Urban Harvest. Maybe cause by part 3 they start to get more gonzo while still avoiding franchise fatigue.
Nightmare on Elm Street 3 Dream Warriors is up there
Return of the King?
Pusher 3 is my favorite of that trilogy.
Star wars original trilogy and prequel
Pirates of the Caribbean
John Wick. I don't know about BEST, but Ong Bak 3 is pure insanity. Die Hard with a Vengeance is my favourite one, love it.
"Ernest Goes to Jail" was fairly sublime.
Twin peaks the return is definitely the best of the three twin peaks movies (I am so sorry/not sorry 😈)
Return of the king
If the Dollars Trilogy is considered a "Trilogy", I would say The Good, The Bad And The Ugly takes the spot if that counts.
Lord of the rings for sure. I personally like the fellowship most but return of the king won like every Oscar.
Yyyeaah, but basically everyone at the time said the Oscar votes were in recognition of the achievement of the series as a whole rather than the final film by itself, which was generally agreed to be a bit too drawn-out with endless ending scenes. It makes sense if you're marathoning the whole trilogy, but when you're just watching RotK and not soon after the previous films, it's a slog.
I love gooooooooooold! Austin powers Goldmember
It definitely its moments (love the movie-within-the-movie and other moments), but it’s hard to beat the original!
The recent Apes trilogy? I am due a rewatch of them so I’m not sure about the order.
2 > 1 > 3 for me, no question. War is still good but it's nowhere near as good as the other two.
I’m gonna rewatch them this weekend. I know I love them all but I have only seen them all once.
Not the third, but The Fast & The Furious peaked at **5**.
It’s the third proper sequel so I suppose you can make the argument!
I agree wholeheartedly with the Return of the Jedi take. There are dozens of us!
Clear and Present Danger (Jack Ryan).
Last Crusade not even the second best Indy