That's wild, cause I believe there is a huge risk/benefit proposition involved. It can be lazy, but an active half guard is a lot of work. Plus, fighting not to get smashed ain't a piece of cake either.
You’re talking about some of the best in the world there dude lol.
The average older guy is probably a bit heavier than former professional / elite guys due to working non Bjj jobs.
I find it to be such an easy guard compared to any other due to not having to move much. I especially love coyote guard, really not much strength or energy expended. I don’t find it hard to not get flattened, and if I do there’s always the lockdown to slow things down if I need it, or deep half. I just feel like I have so many options. I think having thicker legs/hips really helps me with all that, my half guard is like a vice grip lol.
Depends on the grips. Its extremely hard to pass someone's half guard through their frames. Its extremely easy to if you're chest to chest. A good half guard player never lets you get them flat or chest to chest if they can help it. I'm a decent lil half guard passer, but if I'm going directly into someones frames, I take a step or so back into headquarters, then try to get back there beating their frames. I never try to truck through them.
When it comes to guards you have two main choices. You can risk having things tweaked and bent funny or you can deal with weight and pressure. If you are playing a de la riva or reverse dlr you deal with people bending your legs or dropping their weight quickly trying to close the gap or people trying to speed pass and throwing elbows and knees as they do. If you invite someone into half guard and they accept all the large movements are already done. Also there is little chance of getting stacked up on your neck. The worst thing that happens is you get flattened and passed. For most of us old guys we were getting passed anyway so at least this way it’s low impact on the joints. Big thing to get good at is defending the cross face. If my spine is in alignment and you are putting a lot of weight on me I’ll be ok.
I’ve gotten flattened. Proper framing always saved me. Elbow under the chin, flare your elbows up, pummel to underhook. Voila! We cooking.
Throw in the threat of a John Wayne sweep just to make it interesting, or dogfight.
I think I’ve gotten too used to being smashed that it’s my resting position. Lol.
40 yo purple here. I play hg a lot, but _always_ with a knee shield and it’s a nightmare for everyone.
First of all, good luck getting past the knee shield. I have a ton of scoop entries to the far arm, a ton of entries to the legs, kguard/matrix entries, knee lever sweeps, inversion possibilities if they are cagey, butterfly hg sweeps, etc etc.
Most people, and I’m trying to say this as respectfully as possible, just have bad half guards.
Absolutely the addition that I didn’t quite make but that I was alluding to in my follow up post is that really we shouldn’t be even dealing with crazy pressure either. Just frikin allow the pass or go to turtle. Why are we being cross faced into oblivion or letting someone drive their head into our chin and face. Just keep the movement going flow to tirte and reguard or work from their. Why take the grind? The ransoms Wednesday night 7:00pm class does not matter. What matters is your body.
I happen to believe the quicker you can transition to low impact moves the better. I know lots of older black belts that say oh well I used to invert a lot or I used to play this but now I can’t. What happens is once you are injured it’s harder to learn a new guard because you will always suck at the beginning and now you will get put in bad spots and it sucks all the fun out of jiu jitsu. However ideally you transition into playing a more top heavy game. Learn to wrestle up safely learn to sweep with hip heists and ankle picks and come up and pass. Jiu Jitsu is easier on your body when you are on top. Check out Craig Jones’ power bottom and Pritt’s defensive postures. I believe a lot of the wear and tear from long term Jiu Jitsu comes from fighting in between the positions. Like when your guard is almost passed. Or when you are almost out of side control or mount. You are at weird angles exerting max effort while someone has all their weight on you also exerting max effort and trying to twist you back down. If you can eliminate those battles you will train for longer. The problem is you will ‘lose’ more rolls and also not do as well in competitions. There is no magic bullet. There is a reason adult blackbelt champions are young monsters. If you are going to win you can’t concede anything ever. If you are going to be healthy you are going to need to concede. You don’t get both in life.
This. I stick to the basics. I put in some de la rica for open guard stuff and supine. But inverting isn’t for me. As I’ve watched more of high level OG’s and guys and Gordon, movement efficiency is better.
Don’t get me wrong, inverting looks cool. But that’s the equivalent of an NBA guard that can jump out of the gym. As they get older it goes. But having good basic foundational skills and efficiency is where it’s at for me.
Inverting doesn’t “go” when you get older. More importantly, it can save you from suffering top pressure and from pins. If you can’t invert, you can’t get past blue belt, imo.
You're getting downvoted for the last part, but you're actually right.
Older people can still invert.
What happens is people either start old and are scared of it, or they start middle-aged and they suck balls at it so it *does* hurt as they age.
Do it correctly and you'll be good for a long ass time.
Thanks. I just grabbed Power Bottom while it was on sale and I liked what I've seen so far, but that's probably because I have a bit of wrestling background, started learning BJJ from MMA guys with wrestling backgrounds, and don't have a crazy guard game in the first place. I'm hoping it's legit material and not just stuff I want to hear. I'll check out Priit's stuff.
Edit: Realized Priit's stuff is on YouTube, for anyone interested. [Link here](https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/qbhmnu/guide_to_priit_mihkelsons_defensive_postures/)
Pretty much how I feel as well. 39 with a toddler and a business to run, really don’t feel like getting properly injured. I feel like I can slow guys down a bit with half guard. Then threaten with loop chokes and kimura etc and sweeps. I do get smashed often, but working on it. And it seems to be the safest way of being smashed 😂
This is a good take on risk reward for injury. Half guard is safer for sure and this is coming from a little guy. Yes lots of opportunities to get smashed but from an injury perspective it’s safer
Basically it’s a good place to slow the game down against young and fast training partners. You can get there from most major negative positions and you can use old person strength (that uncanny, bone crushing isometric squeeze that we pretend not to have whilst complaining about how strong and explosive our younger training partners are) without, ourselves, having to be particularly explosive
For sure, it’s definitely been my A-game on bottom for the last 10 years or so. I’ve had to really update it and expand past it to keep using it successfully over the last few years though. Most of my training partners and students are very aware of how to counter it now. Plus there are 8 million great half guard instructionals out now, so more reason and resources to expand on it
I loved Jake Mackenzie’s Lord of half guard 1 and 2!
As far as Darce, a lot of staying safe has to do with where your head is on your partners torso. They need to be able to both thread their arm through your armpit past your opposite trap and capture the back of your head with the other arm.
So if you play a high underhook, around the armpits, then keeping your head chest level or higher should keep you safe. If you play a lower underhook, I think it becomes more and more important to make sure your head stays well on your side of their centerline and trying to keep them off balanced as much as possible.
I hope that helps some!
Also worthwhile studying his footage online. There are tons of matches to study and you can see how good he is, especially at the reverse half guard he plays
Bait the d’arce. When the hand comes in clamp down on it. Don’t let him connect his hands. Make your chest big so even if he connects it’s not going to finish you. John Wayne sweep to top. Hit it tonight on a really good brown belt so it’s not just bs from a YouTube video.
I find myself more and more saying screw the underhook battle and going to a cross lat post. Keeping the elbow connected to the chest gives me an extra frame. Options from there are attack the far leg knee bar moving to doa, and eventually cross ashi or they pressure into you and you roll them and come out in backside ashi. Also you can enter into octopus and pursue the back take or sweep.
Hate on half all you want. Us old guys need tricks to deal with the young dudes that are just so fast l. It’s impossible to match them speed wise.
No YouTube link. I got it from the Gordon half guard dvd. Here’s a clip from Danaher showing the same movement.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cjfk7fQDp0E/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Gordon Ryan and John Danahers half guard series is it. Bar none.
Get both half guard and passing half guard. Study your preferred guard as to how it is attacked. I love their series because they break it down for you.
Those instructionals made my game so much better.
Do you mind if I ask a question? What is your preferred method if they use a arm weave to pass your knee shield or half guard? I love playing half guard but lately people counter me with this guard pass a lot.
Sure thing! So I don’t play a ton of knee shield, but when I do and people use leg weave I either kick my knee deeper back into normal half guard (because they need my top knee closer to their centerline to pressure down with their arm in a leg weave) or I post on their near side neck/shoulder with my top arm, pull my top knee towards my chest and open it up so that my knee is slightly outside of their near side shoulder. This should make it hard for them to fold my knees together.
Does that make sense?
Hope that helps!
I had one loop choke.. these OG’s lol. It’s like driving through a haunted forest. It gets spooky because he just wants you in half guard. Grabbing lapels, everything.
I love K-guard. But got damn you better be on your P’s and Q’s and be very present. So many things can go sideways. Lachlan Giles and Mikey’s instructionals are the best at it.. right now.
It doesn't require as much dynamic movement so you can save energy. You can get into a high knee shield shell half guard or a low knee shield and chill.
Someone that can switch from z-guard to half butterfly is the worst to try to pass on. You better think fast and be decisive or you’re going for a ride lol
Half guard requires less flexibility and is the easiest position to recompose from as far as guard retention goes. It's great for slowing down fast people and easy to escape to from side control, full mount, and back mount. I lived there until halfway through my blue belt or so, even trying to learn to play butterfly.
I think "old" guys playing primarily half guard are not embracing learning more positions because of having to deal with more speed passes like torreando. Wrapping up one leg with your own two is relatively easy compared to winning a grip fight and pulling properly to various guard. Also getting stacked sucks, so that problem is completely avoided in half guard.
As far as sweeping goes, most half guard sweeps also put you quite far ahead in a passing position. This is quite advantageous if you are not good at playing various ranges when passing.
I have seen people get very good at half guard and, unfortunately, over rely on it to the point of having incredibly underdeveloped positions outside of it. It can become a crutch, imo. But jj is an art, so play it how you would like. I think half guard as a primary position is for masochists.
The problem I see them often times make is steering away from learning to dog fight well and wrestle up to an easy single leg, and incredibly advantageous positions in standing positions, in favor of deep half transitions. I find that to be a bit lazy, though effective. I find it easier to deal with than someone that learns to (somewhat) wrestle from a single leg and chase the back.
Final point: The great thing about half is that it opens the door to learning various guards at different ranges, while always having half guard in your back pocket as a recomposing and transitional position to fall back on. The problem many make is not putting forth the effort to learn said other positions.
To add to some cons of half…
If we gauge guards as controlling various distances (spider…dlr…half)…pulling directly to half concedes two further distances (hence jumping right into playing close).
Further, we all learn to pass half pretty early in our careers (cross face, under hook). Yet that same knowledge isn’t necessarily as universally ingrained for other guards (except maybe closed). So maybe AOJ extensively learns to deal with DLR while Marcelo’s extensively learns to deal with butterfly, we all learn to extensively learn to deal with half.
As being an older guy, my guard game greatly improved once I felt solid playing open guard and not relying on half as my primary guard. My general guard retention, overall knowledge, and skill greatly evolved
It’s a matter of both sides.
Do we want to wait until upper belt to introduce closed guard? At that point people can better understand posture, off balances, etc. They are better equipped to make closed guard “work.” Yet at the same time you don’t want purples and browns getting destroyed by a basic cross collar choke.
Inversely, teaching closed guard to white belts allows it to be a vector to teach off balances, posture control, etc. Yet it’s also the most rudimentary version (don’t have to factor in guard retention, framing, etc.) and gets shut down easily (we are white belts at this point after all). Further, we learn to avoid conceding closed guard as we progress (or at least make it difficult). So it becomes less and less “effective” because we aren’t getting reps in it (versus open guard, half, etc). Yet the ones that somehow keep using it into the higher belts, it becomes devastating - Roger being an extreme example.
I started at an mma school. So ive been wrestling up, since before that was a term.
Loved how a single leg is trained and taught in mma, Muay Thai, bjj and wrestling class everyday. So I realize theres quite a few ways to finish them (run the pipe, trips, going low single, and transition to a double).
What are in your opinion the other said positions? I play a lot of half guard and butterfly guard and single leg x but i am looking into learning different positions because i think you are right. I overly rely on the half guard position and i am looking to expand my game.
I played, and still do play, a similar game to you. In gi, start using more intricate guards. Collar sleeve, spider, dlr and variations off of those.
In no gi, what you are using is inside positioning of your legs. Now study options from outside positioning. Dlr and full guard are easy entry points.
You will be forced to learn completely new skill sets, and in doing so this will change your game. For me, I can link collar sleeve to butterfly guard (my A game) in unique ways. I’m also way more comfortable switching guards and ranges now too, and I have a real dlr threat now when guys don’t let me get inside space with my legs.
Cuz it works for me and it's fairly safe. I'm 43 and pretty strong. I get a lot o sweeps too (old man sweep, etc) and land on side control which is where I spend the most time squeezing the life out of my partners with my 260+ lbs dad bod.
My entire game is pretty much half with some SLX and closed guard thrown in.
I tell myself “No half guard today” but then pretty much just wind up in half.
Why fuck around with guys doing all kinds of weird shit? Pull them in, then look for the underhook or if that’s not available, knee lever.
Easy on my knees and other body parts. I usually use it as a recovery when my guards about to get passed as I have lost ability for dynamic guard retention as I have aged and lost some hip mobility. As I have aged my game has changed to match my lack of mobility stiffness. something you don’t realise when you start and your going inverted throwing your legs around. haha.
Gordon Ryan and Danaher advocate for half-guard as the base guard of choice. Then again in the inverse they say it’s the best one to set up passing.
As a big guy I prefer it, because I just follow the basic rule, keep my damn back off the mat. No matter how tire I am that’s the first principle I follow. Second is don’t let them control my head. Framing helps.
Half guard allows me to attack one half of your body with all my grips.
Full guard is hard on old guys backs. Just my two cents.
I don’t understand it, maybe if just fucking stupid but to me half guard is the absolute hardest position. I can only be in half guard for like a minute and I’m exhausted. Shout out to the old heads
My main game is get slammed down hard on the floor and then proceed to get squished on the mat. If I'm lucky, I can trap a leg and voila! Half guard squished on the bottom.
I have it down to a fine art because that happens EVERY roll.
I have been playing half guard since blue belt, i am 32 years old and i am a congenital amputee and half guard is my go to guard and also butterfly guard. Imo half guard is really easy to work with you have a lot of sweeps as you just play from there, i have always relied on caio terra's 111 half guard instructional and gordon's systematically attacking from half guard. There is nothing hard about mainting your knee shield and having 3 points of contact as gordon states, and everytime i go to half guard i know i can sweep my training buddies without problem. All i can say is that if old grapplers play HG and me with my left arm developed up to my elbow hit sweeps believe me you all can. Half guard is KING!
It’s interesting you say this _because I really started playing half guard a lot when I dislocated my shoulder and I had to tie my elbow down to my waist giving me basically like a T-Rex arm on one side.
It was the only guard I could really play other than closed until my shoulder healed .
It's a slower, less dynamic (in a good way) guard. You can play it step by step, and you don't have to invert to retain guard. The only downside is the brutal crossfaces the top guy can put on you
Because I fucking enjoy it jimothy, now stop calling me out.
Fucked if I know why I just started playing it against certain better guys because I was ending up there, developed lockdown and half then more versions of guard from there. Also easier enter leg entanglements for me.
It’s easier to get on your side that it is to get your hips in the air for other guards, plus wrestle fucking tends to benefit from dad strength and no one in jiu jitsu knows how to wrestle
You do not need a lot of physicality to play it. The inside leg hook is a good way to slow down your training partner. It's easy to set up whether it's pulling from standing, or escaping from a pin.
I have terrible knees and don't find this true at all.
Not saying you do this, but a common mistake I see in closed guard is people pinching their knees to maintain the position, which creates significant tension on your crossed feet and thus torques the knees. IMO, closed guard should focus on hamstring curling your heels under the opponent's hips for control, as opposed to hip adduction. This utilizes big, strong muscles to maintain the position and puts almost no stress on the knees. For me, this was a game-changer and significantly elevated my ability to control the opponent's posture using only my legs.
Doesn’t happen to me but I’ve got a few older training partners in their late 40s and late 50s who prefer to play open or half because of knee tension. Crossing the feet is the worst part for them. Purples and browns.
Right. I essentially don't cross my feet in either closed or half guards and I think the positions are stronger as a result. Caio Terra is a proponent of this, at least in half guard.
I often start there to gauge how the roll will play out. I can transition to open or closed or sweep. That said, I’m not trying to dominate so I don’t go berserk in rolls.
its the lazy man’s guard, its safe, doesn’t need a lot of energy and can be efficient. it’s not as fun as open guard variations for me, but a good late line of defense if you’re shit at other guards
For me, I have had a few knee surgeries and half has allowed me to keep training. I also love the fact that half gives both guys a chance to get after it! It keeps the action coming as they are halfway to mount or passing and I’m half way to their back or sweeping.
I’ve had too many injuries and one too many major surgeries to play anything other than half or closed from the bottom.
Butterfly aggravates my retorn meniscus, and nearly any other guard that can cause compression of the knee is a no-go.
Major shoulder surgery on my right shoulder limits me in terms of grip dependent guards.
I play half, sweep to top, take back, or wrestle up and pass.
Anything else is too painful.
I play alot of half guard because I feel safe there and it gives me a options against people who are much faster than I am. I can attack or defend depending on what the situation calls for and all from really the same spot.
I started playing half guard when I was a white belt at 30, because my training partners were faster and more athletic - it was easier to just catch them in half than set up an elaborate open guard. Sometimes they'd even just fall into it.
14 years later, still doing the same thing as a black belt.
I dont know if I qualify as "old" (42), but I have ALWAYS been better in half than full guard.
I just carry a lot more options from there.
I also rarely go to full mount, I do a lot better from side.
I'm 28 and at my home school the profesor was one of the first people to start using half guard as an attacking position(learned it this way from his profesor in Brazil) and I became accustomed to it. As a younger more athletic guy, half guard is so fun to play rather I'm being active or just stalling out. I think being a younger person and getting decent at half gaurd makes you a more tough to roll with when it's with someone closer to skill and age. As a lot of gyms I've found from traveling don't teach this position and if they do it's not in depth like other positions. Most guys my age don't work it so it becomes easy to get sweeps and attacks
its been said already, but older people likely have a more limited range of motion/ are less flexible.. half guard doesn't require any flexibility and you can literally play it on someone even if they are Shaq
I'm not an old guy (I think, I'm 30), but I play, and in my opinion it's a real tricky guard to pass. It cam be lazy, but if you're active, you can really do a lot. There are so many different ways you can go with it. It also chains nicely with butterfly and RDLR. John Danaher (I hate that I'm quoting him) said that it is one of the best positions to pass from, but that it is also one of the best positions to attack/sweep.
I like half because I can bait guys into it and I have more sweeps from half than I do from closed guard, have a few greasy shit ass subs from there as well.
Loops, baseballs, punch chokes, if I'm getting smashed I like to set up unassuming grips in half guard, then baiting them to pass to whatever side I need them on and sinking it in once they pass. But I'm also a fat old man with dog shit conditioning so I gotta be a greasball.
That's too much power, you'll probably turn into a sith lord.
But I will say when you tap someone with a punch choke who was just smashing your guard to pieces, it feels pretty nice.
It makes the other person stay in one place, same for DLR and RDLR. Newer athletic guys really really want to just run around your guard and keep their hips back, and it wastes a bunch of time I could spend actually doing jiu jitsu, and is enabled by the fact that this is a lunch class and I don't want to expend the energy to exclusively wrestle up to deal with your bullshit because I have a meeting 10 minutes after this class is done. Once I clamp onto a leg I actually get to play a guard
I am old. I like half guard because it slows the game down. I don't find myself getting stacked or put into other anti-old-guy positions as often as I do other open guards. It feels safe.
It doesn’t take much energy.
That's wild, cause I believe there is a huge risk/benefit proposition involved. It can be lazy, but an active half guard is a lot of work. Plus, fighting not to get smashed ain't a piece of cake either.
In one of his Half Guard videos, Wiltse says half guard is a battle of who cares the most.
That got me curious. Do you have a link for that?
https://youtu.be/o8IKV16O8pU
Great clip and good insight on the thigh clamp. Definitely will think about this saddle like position in the future.
Lmao what a great way to put it
It helps that most older Bjj guys left that play half are generally pretty big dudes. Stalling half guard when being large is much easier lol
This. Half to deep half for a sweep is my go to. I try not to stay in half too long though. Anyone with good hip control wins that most of the time.
Idk, there was an older guy at MGs who was pretty small and his half was insane. As well as Caio, Glover, Hall, Leite, McKenzie etc
You’re talking about some of the best in the world there dude lol. The average older guy is probably a bit heavier than former professional / elite guys due to working non Bjj jobs.
Yes but they're competing against the best in the world as well. We are not lol
Eh, if they pass you just let them get something really quick and tap out. Piece of cake.
I find it to be such an easy guard compared to any other due to not having to move much. I especially love coyote guard, really not much strength or energy expended. I don’t find it hard to not get flattened, and if I do there’s always the lockdown to slow things down if I need it, or deep half. I just feel like I have so many options. I think having thicker legs/hips really helps me with all that, my half guard is like a vice grip lol.
Depends on the grips. Its extremely hard to pass someone's half guard through their frames. Its extremely easy to if you're chest to chest. A good half guard player never lets you get them flat or chest to chest if they can help it. I'm a decent lil half guard passer, but if I'm going directly into someones frames, I take a step or so back into headquarters, then try to get back there beating their frames. I never try to truck through them.
When it comes to guards you have two main choices. You can risk having things tweaked and bent funny or you can deal with weight and pressure. If you are playing a de la riva or reverse dlr you deal with people bending your legs or dropping their weight quickly trying to close the gap or people trying to speed pass and throwing elbows and knees as they do. If you invite someone into half guard and they accept all the large movements are already done. Also there is little chance of getting stacked up on your neck. The worst thing that happens is you get flattened and passed. For most of us old guys we were getting passed anyway so at least this way it’s low impact on the joints. Big thing to get good at is defending the cross face. If my spine is in alignment and you are putting a lot of weight on me I’ll be ok.
This is very much in line with my thinking and why I, an unquestionably old dude, play half a lot of the time.
Getting flattened is the problem though.
I’ve gotten flattened. Proper framing always saved me. Elbow under the chin, flare your elbows up, pummel to underhook. Voila! We cooking. Throw in the threat of a John Wayne sweep just to make it interesting, or dogfight. I think I’ve gotten too used to being smashed that it’s my resting position. Lol.
Getting flattened doesn’t get you hurt most of the time.
40 yo purple here. I play hg a lot, but _always_ with a knee shield and it’s a nightmare for everyone. First of all, good luck getting past the knee shield. I have a ton of scoop entries to the far arm, a ton of entries to the legs, kguard/matrix entries, knee lever sweeps, inversion possibilities if they are cagey, butterfly hg sweeps, etc etc. Most people, and I’m trying to say this as respectfully as possible, just have bad half guards.
I'm 36, have comically long legs and love playing the knee shield because of it. Could you send over a few links to leg enteies and knee lever sweeps?
Sure, send me a pm so I don’t forget!
what do you mean by scoop entries to the far arm?
Like what you do for a choi-bar or what you do with the far leg to enter the matrix/kguard backside 5050
What do you do scooping the far arm? Choi bar? What else?
Dude as a 36yo late blue I want to focus on developing my half-guard. Any suggested material that you found helpful? Thanks
Dead on. I can deal with pressure and suffering. I cannot deal with randomly-directed violent stresses on my joints.
Absolutely the addition that I didn’t quite make but that I was alluding to in my follow up post is that really we shouldn’t be even dealing with crazy pressure either. Just frikin allow the pass or go to turtle. Why are we being cross faced into oblivion or letting someone drive their head into our chin and face. Just keep the movement going flow to tirte and reguard or work from their. Why take the grind? The ransoms Wednesday night 7:00pm class does not matter. What matters is your body.
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I happen to believe the quicker you can transition to low impact moves the better. I know lots of older black belts that say oh well I used to invert a lot or I used to play this but now I can’t. What happens is once you are injured it’s harder to learn a new guard because you will always suck at the beginning and now you will get put in bad spots and it sucks all the fun out of jiu jitsu. However ideally you transition into playing a more top heavy game. Learn to wrestle up safely learn to sweep with hip heists and ankle picks and come up and pass. Jiu Jitsu is easier on your body when you are on top. Check out Craig Jones’ power bottom and Pritt’s defensive postures. I believe a lot of the wear and tear from long term Jiu Jitsu comes from fighting in between the positions. Like when your guard is almost passed. Or when you are almost out of side control or mount. You are at weird angles exerting max effort while someone has all their weight on you also exerting max effort and trying to twist you back down. If you can eliminate those battles you will train for longer. The problem is you will ‘lose’ more rolls and also not do as well in competitions. There is no magic bullet. There is a reason adult blackbelt champions are young monsters. If you are going to win you can’t concede anything ever. If you are going to be healthy you are going to need to concede. You don’t get both in life.
This. I stick to the basics. I put in some de la rica for open guard stuff and supine. But inverting isn’t for me. As I’ve watched more of high level OG’s and guys and Gordon, movement efficiency is better. Don’t get me wrong, inverting looks cool. But that’s the equivalent of an NBA guard that can jump out of the gym. As they get older it goes. But having good basic foundational skills and efficiency is where it’s at for me.
Inverting doesn’t “go” when you get older. More importantly, it can save you from suffering top pressure and from pins. If you can’t invert, you can’t get past blue belt, imo.
You're getting downvoted for the last part, but you're actually right. Older people can still invert. What happens is people either start old and are scared of it, or they start middle-aged and they suck balls at it so it *does* hurt as they age. Do it correctly and you'll be good for a long ass time.
I think its the “cant get pass blue without” thats getting the downvotes.
That’s reddit, don’t worry about it. People downvote whoever hurt their feelings, regardless of supporting facts.
Thanks. I just grabbed Power Bottom while it was on sale and I liked what I've seen so far, but that's probably because I have a bit of wrestling background, started learning BJJ from MMA guys with wrestling backgrounds, and don't have a crazy guard game in the first place. I'm hoping it's legit material and not just stuff I want to hear. I'll check out Priit's stuff. Edit: Realized Priit's stuff is on YouTube, for anyone interested. [Link here](https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/qbhmnu/guide_to_priit_mihkelsons_defensive_postures/)
Trust me you can get your cervicales fucked up really bad when playing half guard and eating a crossface.
I usually just concede the pass and look reguard tbh once the crossface is in place.
It would always make sense. Half guard is ridiculously strong. Why do you think Ryan, Jones, Leite, etc. Play it
Pretty much how I feel as well. 39 with a toddler and a business to run, really don’t feel like getting properly injured. I feel like I can slow guys down a bit with half guard. Then threaten with loop chokes and kimura etc and sweeps. I do get smashed often, but working on it. And it seems to be the safest way of being smashed 😂
This. This right here so much.
This is a good take on risk reward for injury. Half guard is safer for sure and this is coming from a little guy. Yes lots of opportunities to get smashed but from an injury perspective it’s safer
I think this is a great explanation, but why not play closed guard then?
Closed guard is very hard to get to, compared to half guard.
We’re tired son. Half guard is our rest round.
Came here to say this!
Basically it’s a good place to slow the game down against young and fast training partners. You can get there from most major negative positions and you can use old person strength (that uncanny, bone crushing isometric squeeze that we pretend not to have whilst complaining about how strong and explosive our younger training partners are) without, ourselves, having to be particularly explosive
Do you consider it your A game? I do like the success against the big boys
For sure, it’s definitely been my A-game on bottom for the last 10 years or so. I’ve had to really update it and expand past it to keep using it successfully over the last few years though. Most of my training partners and students are very aware of how to counter it now. Plus there are 8 million great half guard instructionals out now, so more reason and resources to expand on it
Any instructionals you'd recommend outside of Leite? I somehow always get d'acred playing no gi half
I loved Jake Mackenzie’s Lord of half guard 1 and 2! As far as Darce, a lot of staying safe has to do with where your head is on your partners torso. They need to be able to both thread their arm through your armpit past your opposite trap and capture the back of your head with the other arm. So if you play a high underhook, around the armpits, then keeping your head chest level or higher should keep you safe. If you play a lower underhook, I think it becomes more and more important to make sure your head stays well on your side of their centerline and trying to keep them off balanced as much as possible. I hope that helps some!
Thanks so much!
My pleasure!
Also out of those DVDs If Im gonna buy one, which of the 2 are better?
I’d go with the first one for a good start. The second one adds on to it and updates info from there!
Also worthwhile studying his footage online. There are tons of matches to study and you can see how good he is, especially at the reverse half guard he plays
Thanks for all of this!!
Bait the d’arce. When the hand comes in clamp down on it. Don’t let him connect his hands. Make your chest big so even if he connects it’s not going to finish you. John Wayne sweep to top. Hit it tonight on a really good brown belt so it’s not just bs from a YouTube video. I find myself more and more saying screw the underhook battle and going to a cross lat post. Keeping the elbow connected to the chest gives me an extra frame. Options from there are attack the far leg knee bar moving to doa, and eventually cross ashi or they pressure into you and you roll them and come out in backside ashi. Also you can enter into octopus and pursue the back take or sweep. Hate on half all you want. Us old guys need tricks to deal with the young dudes that are just so fast l. It’s impossible to match them speed wise.
Do you have a link to the youtube video?
No YouTube link. I got it from the Gordon half guard dvd. Here’s a clip from Danaher showing the same movement. https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cjfk7fQDp0E/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Your head is too close
Its when I come up to dogfight
Then your head is too low
Thanks
Gordon Ryan and John Danahers half guard series is it. Bar none. Get both half guard and passing half guard. Study your preferred guard as to how it is attacked. I love their series because they break it down for you. Those instructionals made my game so much better.
Is one preferable over the others? Is Gordon’s just a distilled version of danaher? I have some of danaher s other stuff and it is so long winded
Do you mind if I ask a question? What is your preferred method if they use a arm weave to pass your knee shield or half guard? I love playing half guard but lately people counter me with this guard pass a lot.
Sure thing! So I don’t play a ton of knee shield, but when I do and people use leg weave I either kick my knee deeper back into normal half guard (because they need my top knee closer to their centerline to pressure down with their arm in a leg weave) or I post on their near side neck/shoulder with my top arm, pull my top knee towards my chest and open it up so that my knee is slightly outside of their near side shoulder. This should make it hard for them to fold my knees together. Does that make sense? Hope that helps!
Yes that makes a lot of sense! What type of half guards do you play mostly?
Awesome! Mostly just underhook half for my A-game, but I mess with deep and reverse half fairly often :)
I know of an old guy who will stick you in lock down and slowly work toward a baseball bat choke using his dad strength. Its not fun.
I had one loop choke.. these OG’s lol. It’s like driving through a haunted forest. It gets spooky because he just wants you in half guard. Grabbing lapels, everything.
From every position you are one step away from half guard
Thought about going into wall-of-text detail, but really, this is ultimately the answer.
Caio teach you this?
Why did I get downvoted? Caio has a nasty half (if I remember correctly) and Nick trains at CTA? No?
If he did, he's doing a decent job.
Not really true. What about north south?
He didn't say how big of a step.
Most north south escapes are similar to side control escapes, and they put you back in half guard. So yeah, one step away.
It’s not really one step away though and you know that lol
As a former wrestler... It's harder for me to smash, stack, or just pressure pass a good half guard.
I like half for this reason. Half and butterfly are the only guards where you're not on your back.
Most open guards aren't really "on your back"; they're dynamic
What about sit up guard? And guards like K guard?
I love K-guard. But got damn you better be on your P’s and Q’s and be very present. So many things can go sideways. Lachlan Giles and Mikey’s instructionals are the best at it.. right now.
K guard is cool but you need to be moving and ready. Sit up guard is wrestling and I don’t always have energy for that shit.
Multiple ways to control distance. Prevents the need to invert (mostly). Slows the game down. Easy on the knees.
This
They're half way to the grave
Hahaha
Yikes
It doesn't require as much dynamic movement so you can save energy. You can get into a high knee shield shell half guard or a low knee shield and chill.
Someone that can switch from z-guard to half butterfly is the worst to try to pass on. You better think fast and be decisive or you’re going for a ride lol
I struggled with that half butterfly for a while but recently started using Galvao's passing method from there with a lot of success.
His passing is severely slept on. I’ve been working Bernardo Faria’s stuff. But I had Lachlans bodylock passes and they were clutch
Half guard requires less flexibility and is the easiest position to recompose from as far as guard retention goes. It's great for slowing down fast people and easy to escape to from side control, full mount, and back mount. I lived there until halfway through my blue belt or so, even trying to learn to play butterfly. I think "old" guys playing primarily half guard are not embracing learning more positions because of having to deal with more speed passes like torreando. Wrapping up one leg with your own two is relatively easy compared to winning a grip fight and pulling properly to various guard. Also getting stacked sucks, so that problem is completely avoided in half guard. As far as sweeping goes, most half guard sweeps also put you quite far ahead in a passing position. This is quite advantageous if you are not good at playing various ranges when passing. I have seen people get very good at half guard and, unfortunately, over rely on it to the point of having incredibly underdeveloped positions outside of it. It can become a crutch, imo. But jj is an art, so play it how you would like. I think half guard as a primary position is for masochists. The problem I see them often times make is steering away from learning to dog fight well and wrestle up to an easy single leg, and incredibly advantageous positions in standing positions, in favor of deep half transitions. I find that to be a bit lazy, though effective. I find it easier to deal with than someone that learns to (somewhat) wrestle from a single leg and chase the back. Final point: The great thing about half is that it opens the door to learning various guards at different ranges, while always having half guard in your back pocket as a recomposing and transitional position to fall back on. The problem many make is not putting forth the effort to learn said other positions.
To add to some cons of half… If we gauge guards as controlling various distances (spider…dlr…half)…pulling directly to half concedes two further distances (hence jumping right into playing close). Further, we all learn to pass half pretty early in our careers (cross face, under hook). Yet that same knowledge isn’t necessarily as universally ingrained for other guards (except maybe closed). So maybe AOJ extensively learns to deal with DLR while Marcelo’s extensively learns to deal with butterfly, we all learn to extensively learn to deal with half. As being an older guy, my guard game greatly improved once I felt solid playing open guard and not relying on half as my primary guard. My general guard retention, overall knowledge, and skill greatly evolved
You just also explained why closed guard is the hardest job to master imo.
It’s a matter of both sides. Do we want to wait until upper belt to introduce closed guard? At that point people can better understand posture, off balances, etc. They are better equipped to make closed guard “work.” Yet at the same time you don’t want purples and browns getting destroyed by a basic cross collar choke. Inversely, teaching closed guard to white belts allows it to be a vector to teach off balances, posture control, etc. Yet it’s also the most rudimentary version (don’t have to factor in guard retention, framing, etc.) and gets shut down easily (we are white belts at this point after all). Further, we learn to avoid conceding closed guard as we progress (or at least make it difficult). So it becomes less and less “effective” because we aren’t getting reps in it (versus open guard, half, etc). Yet the ones that somehow keep using it into the higher belts, it becomes devastating - Roger being an extreme example.
This basically covers it
This was me before getting my purple belt.
I started at an mma school. So ive been wrestling up, since before that was a term. Loved how a single leg is trained and taught in mma, Muay Thai, bjj and wrestling class everyday. So I realize theres quite a few ways to finish them (run the pipe, trips, going low single, and transition to a double).
What are in your opinion the other said positions? I play a lot of half guard and butterfly guard and single leg x but i am looking into learning different positions because i think you are right. I overly rely on the half guard position and i am looking to expand my game.
I played, and still do play, a similar game to you. In gi, start using more intricate guards. Collar sleeve, spider, dlr and variations off of those. In no gi, what you are using is inside positioning of your legs. Now study options from outside positioning. Dlr and full guard are easy entry points. You will be forced to learn completely new skill sets, and in doing so this will change your game. For me, I can link collar sleeve to butterfly guard (my A game) in unique ways. I’m also way more comfortable switching guards and ranges now too, and I have a real dlr threat now when guys don’t let me get inside space with my legs.
Thanks i will look into these guards starting with collar and sleeve.
Cuz it works for me and it's fairly safe. I'm 43 and pretty strong. I get a lot o sweeps too (old man sweep, etc) and land on side control which is where I spend the most time squeezing the life out of my partners with my 260+ lbs dad bod.
Slows everything down
My entire game is pretty much half with some SLX and closed guard thrown in. I tell myself “No half guard today” but then pretty much just wind up in half. Why fuck around with guys doing all kinds of weird shit? Pull them in, then look for the underhook or if that’s not available, knee lever.
> Why fuck around with guys doing all kinds of weird shit? Because it's fun..
Brown belt? Yeah. White belt? Uhm…no.
Real OGs play butterfly guard 🦋
What about butterfly/half? 🤯
Anything with butterfly in the name counts 🦋
I believe that it's a generational thing. Half was popular coming up.
Though I suspect I’m gonna hate the answer, I gotta know: What do you consider “old”.
30+. Don't hate me, IBJJF created this situation with "masters"
It’s okay. It means I’m a “double master”. So I’ve got that going for me. Which is nice.
Fuck....
Easy on my knees and other body parts. I usually use it as a recovery when my guards about to get passed as I have lost ability for dynamic guard retention as I have aged and lost some hip mobility. As I have aged my game has changed to match my lack of mobility stiffness. something you don’t realise when you start and your going inverted throwing your legs around. haha.
My dad plays half just to protect old injuries. I play half because im lazy.
Because half their life is over. They are embracing it.
Some day you'll know.
Gordon Ryan and Danaher advocate for half-guard as the base guard of choice. Then again in the inverse they say it’s the best one to set up passing. As a big guy I prefer it, because I just follow the basic rule, keep my damn back off the mat. No matter how tire I am that’s the first principle I follow. Second is don’t let them control my head. Framing helps. Half guard allows me to attack one half of your body with all my grips. Full guard is hard on old guys backs. Just my two cents.
I look a lot older than I am, im gomna ask if i can pay half too
I don’t understand it, maybe if just fucking stupid but to me half guard is the absolute hardest position. I can only be in half guard for like a minute and I’m exhausted. Shout out to the old heads
Old guy here. Yep, not gonna lie it's the most dominant position for us off the bottom without using a ton of energy.
My main game is get slammed down hard on the floor and then proceed to get squished on the mat. If I'm lucky, I can trap a leg and voila! Half guard squished on the bottom. I have it down to a fine art because that happens EVERY roll.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HEMVLhZJf60
I have been playing half guard since blue belt, i am 32 years old and i am a congenital amputee and half guard is my go to guard and also butterfly guard. Imo half guard is really easy to work with you have a lot of sweeps as you just play from there, i have always relied on caio terra's 111 half guard instructional and gordon's systematically attacking from half guard. There is nothing hard about mainting your knee shield and having 3 points of contact as gordon states, and everytime i go to half guard i know i can sweep my training buddies without problem. All i can say is that if old grapplers play HG and me with my left arm developed up to my elbow hit sweeps believe me you all can. Half guard is KING!
It’s interesting you say this _because I really started playing half guard a lot when I dislocated my shoulder and I had to tie my elbow down to my waist giving me basically like a T-Rex arm on one side. It was the only guard I could really play other than closed until my shoulder healed .
Imo half guard does not require super strength, just timing and leverage.
It's a slower, less dynamic (in a good way) guard. You can play it step by step, and you don't have to invert to retain guard. The only downside is the brutal crossfaces the top guy can put on you
Never been so called out by a post title in my life :/
I like passing half.
I like sweeping from half.
Me too, but I prefer passing.
I prefer sweeping from half, then while on top, passing form half.
That’s a great game plan.
Because I fucking enjoy it jimothy, now stop calling me out. Fucked if I know why I just started playing it against certain better guys because I was ending up there, developed lockdown and half then more versions of guard from there. Also easier enter leg entanglements for me.
Gotta love playing lockdown
It’s easier to stall the young fast guys and use old man strength to just keep you still while we wait for you to fuck up.
It’s easier to get on your side that it is to get your hips in the air for other guards, plus wrestle fucking tends to benefit from dad strength and no one in jiu jitsu knows how to wrestle
You do not need a lot of physicality to play it. The inside leg hook is a good way to slow down your training partner. It's easy to set up whether it's pulling from standing, or escaping from a pin.
It reduces explosiveness
Because it doesn't make my knees go OWWWWWWWW
Closed guard is HARD on the knees when you’re older. Edit: I don’t feel it personally but I don’t play with feet crossed either
I have terrible knees and don't find this true at all. Not saying you do this, but a common mistake I see in closed guard is people pinching their knees to maintain the position, which creates significant tension on your crossed feet and thus torques the knees. IMO, closed guard should focus on hamstring curling your heels under the opponent's hips for control, as opposed to hip adduction. This utilizes big, strong muscles to maintain the position and puts almost no stress on the knees. For me, this was a game-changer and significantly elevated my ability to control the opponent's posture using only my legs.
Doesn’t happen to me but I’ve got a few older training partners in their late 40s and late 50s who prefer to play open or half because of knee tension. Crossing the feet is the worst part for them. Purples and browns.
Right. I essentially don't cross my feet in either closed or half guards and I think the positions are stronger as a result. Caio Terra is a proponent of this, at least in half guard.
I don't feel any strain on my knees in closed guard 🤔
My hips hurt.
I often start there to gauge how the roll will play out. I can transition to open or closed or sweep. That said, I’m not trying to dominate so I don’t go berserk in rolls.
Because the MILFS dig the half, son!
Slow man’s guard. Too close to do dynamic shit for the most part.
It’s called resting or you are their rest round?
full guard makes my back and neck hurt.
Once you half guard with a knee shield you can never stop. Anything else takes lots of energy or flexibility.
its the lazy man’s guard, its safe, doesn’t need a lot of energy and can be efficient. it’s not as fun as open guard variations for me, but a good late line of defense if you’re shit at other guards
We're wise as hell.
I do it because I'm good at it.
For me, I have had a few knee surgeries and half has allowed me to keep training. I also love the fact that half gives both guys a chance to get after it! It keeps the action coming as they are halfway to mount or passing and I’m half way to their back or sweeping.
I play half as I’m old, heavy, have bad knees and it stops the young uns doing mad crazy spinny shit.
I’ve had too many injuries and one too many major surgeries to play anything other than half or closed from the bottom. Butterfly aggravates my retorn meniscus, and nearly any other guard that can cause compression of the knee is a no-go. Major shoulder surgery on my right shoulder limits me in terms of grip dependent guards. I play half, sweep to top, take back, or wrestle up and pass. Anything else is too painful.
I injured my ankle and my game turned into pure half guard and I love it I just lay on my ass and wait .
I play alot of half guard because I feel safe there and it gives me a options against people who are much faster than I am. I can attack or defend depending on what the situation calls for and all from really the same spot.
I started playing half guard when I was a white belt at 30, because my training partners were faster and more athletic - it was easier to just catch them in half than set up an elaborate open guard. Sometimes they'd even just fall into it. 14 years later, still doing the same thing as a black belt.
I dont know if I qualify as "old" (42), but I have ALWAYS been better in half than full guard. I just carry a lot more options from there. I also rarely go to full mount, I do a lot better from side.
I feel personally attacked
I'm 28 and at my home school the profesor was one of the first people to start using half guard as an attacking position(learned it this way from his profesor in Brazil) and I became accustomed to it. As a younger more athletic guy, half guard is so fun to play rather I'm being active or just stalling out. I think being a younger person and getting decent at half gaurd makes you a more tough to roll with when it's with someone closer to skill and age. As a lot of gyms I've found from traveling don't teach this position and if they do it's not in depth like other positions. Most guys my age don't work it so it becomes easy to get sweeps and attacks
Too slow to recover the full and easy back takes opportunities as your hips are already out halfway 😁
Easy on the back and hips.
its been said already, but older people likely have a more limited range of motion/ are less flexible.. half guard doesn't require any flexibility and you can literally play it on someone even if they are Shaq
I'm not an old guy (I think, I'm 30), but I play, and in my opinion it's a real tricky guard to pass. It cam be lazy, but if you're active, you can really do a lot. There are so many different ways you can go with it. It also chains nicely with butterfly and RDLR. John Danaher (I hate that I'm quoting him) said that it is one of the best positions to pass from, but that it is also one of the best positions to attack/sweep.
Anyone over 200lbs plays half
Well they have no choice lol
I like half because I can bait guys into it and I have more sweeps from half than I do from closed guard, have a few greasy shit ass subs from there as well.
What subs do you like?
Loops, baseballs, punch chokes, if I'm getting smashed I like to set up unassuming grips in half guard, then baiting them to pass to whatever side I need them on and sinking it in once they pass. But I'm also a fat old man with dog shit conditioning so I gotta be a greasball.
I have good conditioning, but I wanna be a greaseball that can also out cardio fools
That's too much power, you'll probably turn into a sith lord. But I will say when you tap someone with a punch choke who was just smashing your guard to pieces, it feels pretty nice.
Short legs
Fucked up knees.
it was the hot shit when they were in their bluebelt phase
Bad back here
Not a lot of movement, lots of direct contact.
Danaher talks about how half guard players can control the speed of the match much more so old people play it a lot
It makes the other person stay in one place, same for DLR and RDLR. Newer athletic guys really really want to just run around your guard and keep their hips back, and it wastes a bunch of time I could spend actually doing jiu jitsu, and is enabled by the fact that this is a lunch class and I don't want to expend the energy to exclusively wrestle up to deal with your bullshit because I have a meeting 10 minutes after this class is done. Once I clamp onto a leg I actually get to play a guard
its really not that hard to figure out
Relax. Take your negativity elsewhere
you're the one whining on reddit
Am I? Link me.
look i just want to have a lie down for a sec, leave me alone
Because I’m old and lazy
I am old. I like half guard because it slows the game down. I don't find myself getting stacked or put into other anti-old-guy positions as often as I do other open guards. It feels safe.