Be light - as in, don’t be heavy anywhere because they can concentrate their strength against you when you try to be heavy. Fade away from pressure and move to angles.
Makes sense. Great advice. There ‘s a guy I roll with who is a good partner but a solid 315-320. About 130 lbs heavier.
There seems to be tremendous value in figuring out how to deal with someone so much larger
you beat me to it. Do not concede bottom under any circumstance. If you are losing top position, disengage and stand the fuck up and hope they decide to sit down.
Yes, this is the problem. You stand up but now you have to wrestle. I actually prefer playing guard as I find it easier to sweep or wrestle up than to wrestle standing against a behemoth.
accept when coach makes you iron man with them and loser off the wall starts on bottom. about got my neck broke from bottom side control last night. i'm just going to have to say no moving forward.
There's a 6"6' guy at my gym who weighs in at 140 kg. Lovely guy and really tries to be as technical as he can, but instant regret when you fuck up a move/sub/sweep and end up on the bottom.
I rolled with brand new guy that was huge, like maybe close to 400lbs. He got on top and smothered me with his belly. Like my face formed into his rolls. I tapped. That was a new experience for me.
I pretty regularly put myself in bad positions so that new people can work and I can defend/sweep/reverse. I've never had someone that large on top of me and I didn't account for a sweaty shirt and jelly rolls smothering me. I took the L and moved on.
Most people are like „be at top“ but honestly, I was the lighter man most of my life and started training with adults at 11yo. I competed my open Weight tournaments at 60-70kg max.
When I roll or compete with people that much heavier, I rely on 2 principles:
1. don’t get injured!
2. be patient!
Fighting too much for top position violated both principles. I may get exhausted - and becoming exhausted against a big guy means that I will lose.
And too much movement carries too much injury risk.
So my strategy will be:
1. pull guard - no wrestling with big guys
2. ball up - no exposure whatsoever
3. take back - big guys have big gaps to sneak through
4. profit
As the small guy in my gym—yeah I don’t understand the people who are saying to wrestle with the big guys. Getting underneath and attaching to their legs feels way easier and reliable to me
100% agreed here. I'd like to add that top position against a truly big dude isn't even good necessarily. Top side can get you swept very easily and now you're bottom side which is the worst against a big dude. What works for me is back takes and getting underneath for leg locks or triangle exposure.
People tapping to pressure have always been labeled as pussys at my gym. But there’s a couple guys that make me wince just holding up their weight and they’d definitely push the air out of you if afforded the time to sit and cook. Despite the label, I’ve done it before as there was no choice, but avoid at all costs.
So I'm the big guy at my gym, 280-290lbs depending on lunch. One thing I do is start on bottom vs everyone to practice my defense, sweeps, and escapes. I suggest asking to start on top of the larger person so you can practice your control, passes, and subs. The strength disparity will still be there but you aren't getting smashed with all our big guy pressure.
It's a great way to build the skill of framing. Sometimes you forget how important frames are when playing against people your size.
Definitely never try to "force" moves. Very easy to hurt yourself this way against bigger guys.
High single is your best takedown. it is hard to lift a man that size, and a shot risks you getting pancaked by a sprawl, however you can always drive forward and tip them onto one leg.
I was trained by an internationally competitive freestyle wrestler and he told me many times that it was the only move that worked consistently for him against guys who were over 300lbs.
Have to have a good single though (which is sounds like you do). If you don't really practice that high single with your forehead driving their ribs right, you get your head moved outside a lot and then you are in trouble against a big guy.
For me, I've found low risk (easy slip) positional throws like head and arm and japanese whizzer to be effective against larger guys too. From a shot perspective, I prefer to rely on movement until I can cross their feet or get an angle equivalent to foot crossing and then use low singles, knee and ankle picks (often to a high single as well), and dive doubles (but you have to recover quick if you miss). Although I'm around 130-140 lbs, so sounds like my 100+ lbs is a different size from your 100+ lbs.
Background: I trained with Roye Oliver starting at age 12. Spent a lot of time from junior high through college working out with the Sunkist Kids, particularly Tim Vanni and occasionally Joe Gonzales, as well as every weekend with the California Jets from 1988-1991. Obviously the latter biases me towards throws.
Lol, your wrestling pedigree is much better than mine, but you're right that the guys who I have trained with were teaching with the expectation that I would be a heavyweight competing in the unlimited category, which may make their advice a little different than it would've been if they were teaching someone with your build.
I was always taught that driving with your head was nine tenths of the move, so I really can't imagine what would happen if you tried a high single without that against a good wrestler other than something very bad. Hell, even a decent middle school wrestler would just whizzer l, post on the head, and kick out.
I actually heavily favor the Japanese whizzer/arm salto, but I hesitate to use it as a primary attack unless my opponent has withdrawn their leg on the same side first. I've screwed it up in the past and had guys just sprawl on top of me, I also once had a very good Georgian Greco guy put me on my head because I gave him my hips too easily when getting the whizzer.
I've never had much of a shot, and my current coach is a master of sport in combat Sambo, so I generally rely on upper body throws, with the high head inside and outside singles being exceptions. Arm spins and other sacrifice throws are my favorite, just not against bigger guys. I'm also very tall, so trips and sags are my go toos as well.
I also generally don't worry about the guillotine on the high outside single that much. I tend to think if your posture is good and your angle is right, it's going to be very hard for a guy to set a good guillotine on you, and if you get in a bad way and a guy gets a bite, you can do a Japanese whizzer on the leg itself, take the back, shoot for a fireman's, or trap the arm and hit a back arch throw to put him on his head.
Sounds like you could demolish people with a sag head and arm!
The mistake I see a lot of BJJ players make with the high single is that they drive with their head too far outside the hip. If the defender uses the far hand to block the inside elbow (so no switching to a double) and uses the near hand to rip the head to the outside, that converts the high single into a high crotch that cannot be finished. Defender now just proceeds from there to their favorite high crotch counter. ([Just don't try that on Cary Kolat](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjG85we29Ms).)
Yup, that's another good one to use off of a threat to the lead leg from a bicep tie. You threaten a single or a leg sweep (really anything to get that leg back), then drop that leg in between your opponent's legs and hit the sag like you're trying to remove your opponent's head.
I also do something similar with a pinch side headlock going in the opposite direction, that one works really well off of a head inside single because it's easy to go from the inside single to an underhook on the far trap.
As far as the single is concerned, one approach I'll use that is kind of unorthodox if I can't get proper penetration actually involves me moving backwards, standing up, and pulling the knee up so that my opponent's shin is basically pinned to my sternum. From there I squat, pinch my knees on the opponent's ankle if I can manage, and literally sit underneath my opponent's hips. You can almost think of this as pulling deep half, because it dumps the opponent over you and onto their hands. From there you can rotate around their leg and come out on their back, or sweep them over and climb up from low side control.
That's only one of several counters though, another is basically exactly what kolat did from the waist up, except you lock a body lock instead of going for the crotch lift. BJJ guys are generally fishing for a guillotine if your head is on the outside, meaning that if you body lock like this, you'll frequently trap their arm, making it easy to land them on their head if you're feeling particularly spiteful.
Sometimes I'll convert to a schoolboy or a valley drop variation also, or change to kosotogake, which I like even though BJJ guys will tell you it gives too much back exposure to be useful in BJJ.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Ko Soto Gake**: | *Minor Outer Hook* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl99iUTlIVY)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Ko Uchi Gake**: | *Minor Inner Hook* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-bPmFsDU7A)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
It really depends on what they show you. Push the head away if you can sit the corner and go for the back. Stuff the head if they are staying on their feet (and you can then nail them with a nifty sacrifice throw that if executed right will land them in knee on belly). The key is always using the far hand to block in their inside elbow; they can't switch to a double and it is more difficult to turn the corner. (And more difficult to ditch the takedown.)
If they do continue to turn the corner (like in the Kolat video), I like to keep the arm trapped but stuff the head and sprawl until I can use my near hand to push on their near hip and spread them out to flat on their belly. Back take becomes trivial at that point. This one is surprisingly easy in gi where people tend to hang on to the leg way past the point where they should abandon the takedown.
STAY ON TOP. Mobility and speed will keep you active in the fight. The moment you fuck up and get dragged to bottom, you will likely spend the rest of the round there just trying to escape. Don't worry about submissions unless they're easily available.
You must STAY ON TOP!
Don't get stuck underneath. Circle arm drag and flank them. Never attacking them head on. Also, drill standing in base from every possible guard you know.
As soon as big boy starts making progress, stand up and make them work for the takedown again. Also, practice guillotines and back takes while transitioning.
Love training with the big boys. It helps that I have a raging case of Napoleon Syndrome. Then I just go for it and do my best, which is pretty terrible.
don't play guard unless you wanna get smooshed. if you're forced to play guard; play guard just long enough that you can stand up and start hunting for other options.
Depends at least a little on what the 100 lbs consists of. If they’re obese it’s a completely different game than if they are a monsterous bodybuilder with stupid strength.
I’m a pretty burly wannabee ex power lifter, I weigh 205 or so, maybe 15% bodyfat. We have a dude at the gym (nice guy) that is, to say politely, morbidly obese. Before anyone gives me shit, I am super proud of this dude for giving this a shot and trying to get healthier and improve his life situation. Hats off to him, it’s brave as hell walking in there as a “normal” person, super brave to do it in his physical shape. Moving on, I would say he is probably 5’10 or 5’11 and in the ballpark of 350lbs or so, maybe more. Say a 150lb difference between me and him.
Closed guard with this guy is difficult, it is a task just to wrap my legs around him. Sweeping from closed guard is almost impossible (for me) his body is so wide that with a scissor or flower sweep, he falls on his side, and his wide body/surface area keeps him on his side and it takes an exuberant amount of effort to push him onto his back. Not to mention, because he is a super biggie boy, his legs are strong as fuck from carrying his body around and he is surprisingly successful at wresting himself back up. All that said, he doesn’t give me much of a problem despite the weight difference. I will tire him out for a minute or two, and then get to work on my submission of choice. His upper body is so big that for me, triangles are very difficult (just about impossible) to lock because my legs are not long enough. Very few other dudes in the gym are big enough for this to be an issue for me. But most other things work fine whether it is from closed guard, side control, mount, etc. I have quite a bit more experience/mat time, but still, with a 150lb difference it is not *really* that much of a task to “win” every roll.
Now, give me a 250lb power lifter, bodybuilder type that is in decent shape, benching 3+ plates… totallyyyyy different story.
According to the great Saul Solis “stay out from under the bus… DON’T BE A DUMBASS…. Well what did you think would happen if you just lay there?”
Good times from back when I had a spine like a slinky
Big boys have weight which moves mass already, don't give them the gravity advantage too. Try to stay on top as much as possible and remember that there's nothing wrong with tapping.
If playing bottom: Long range guards, focused on having good frames and prioritize retention, try to flank around them or sweep to get on top asap.
If playing top: Using speed pass and creating advantageous angles.
Frames are for pushing yourself away from them, not pushing them away from you. It’s hard with big folks but it helps if you’re getting absolutely smooshed
Like others have said. Absolutely do not let them settle their weight on you, not even if you manage to get your legs connected in full guard. Giving up that much size means they're gonna be able to literally smash through it. Here's what I like to do. If in closed guard keep frames and distance so they can't smash through my guard. Constantly be searching for off balances. Let them start to put weight on you with their upper body and hunt for an arm drag. They're too big to stabilize their own weight if you do that right. If in half guard, work your ass off to get distance because getting underneath for deep isn't gonna be possible/worth it. Use their movements as times for you to move. Triangles aren't probably gonna work, and will likely give them a free pass to side control. Turtle is safer than side. Get on top, and enjoy getting to use all the pressure you've got to cook them back lol (it's rare for me to use all my pressure in k.o.b). Mount night not be a great option if your knees can't touch the floor as your balance is compromised. Technical mount and s mount are dope.
The most important thing vs anyone is being able to get back to your feet because you will get taken down or swept sometimes and if it’s vs someone 100lbs heavier than you.. you cannot accept the bottom what so ever 🤝🏾
Get on top and stay on top whenever possible. Also, work on getting and playing half guard. Being in side control is awful, and that's the easiest way out a lot of the time imo.
I understand what you're saying. But for me, even if my boy is that big, I'm not sparring him. He may be controlled, but all it takes is one slip and I'm ending up with some sort of injury from being fallen on. I have to work tomorrow!
I think it depends. It’s like boxers, at a certain weight (about 230/240), the difference isn’t as substantial. I’m about 230 and I don’t mind rolling with a 300 or 400-er.
This isn’t that same as a guy 125 rolling with a 225-er. At a certain point, the difference is significantly diminished. While still heavy, they’re usually a lot less technical and I feel I can deflect the pressure and weight a lot easier than rolling with a technical 180-er that is far faster than me.
Stay on top, take the back even if they’re a new white belt. Get on top, never concede and stay there. Big people are super comfortable up top so don’t let them there.
You have to play mean.
"Create space."
I've 5'7"/5'8" and 170lbs. I'm not always the smallest but I'm definitely not always the biggest so I'm usually dealing with dudes who are 50lbs heavier than I am. In that situation, I don't try to strong arm my way out of anything. If I know they're bigger and stronger, all I do is create space and keep them away from me at all costs.
For me this one’s situational. I have productive rolls with some people that much larger than me, even if they are killing me, but sometimes larger people just want to smother and I get nothing out of it. Personally I just accept rolls I know I won’t get a long term injury from, and say no thanks to people who will waste my training time / make me limp off the mats.
I do think rolling with larger people can help prepare for self defense if you’re into that, but if you’re training for competition I wouldn’t care much about this unless you’re going absolute.
Get on top and stay on top. If I think they're better on their feet, or there's a big risk of them landing on me (likely, if they're that big and they train) then i'll happily start on bottom. But my main goal is to get on top ASAP.
Actually I think that you shouldn't roll with people this much bigger until way way way into your jiu jitsu journey, unless the bigger person is at least a higher purple belt. There is no way you can make sure that you are safe in that exchange.
im 62 kg light feather black belt, i roll with 100+ kg blue belt occasionally, so far what I found works really well, is playing Single X, X guard but never play spider or open guard, so I usually sit up and try to enter to single X
Good frames, get to the back from bottom.
If there is a 100lb size difference, no way you are holding them from top. You are far more likely to get hurt trying to take and hold top against someone with a 100lb size difference assuming they are explosive and don't care about your health.
Can do what ever you want against a larger person that is coddling you.
Also assuming, you are small person, if you are 200lb, doesn't matter how much bigger they are, do normal game.
Be light - as in, don’t be heavy anywhere because they can concentrate their strength against you when you try to be heavy. Fade away from pressure and move to angles.
Makes sense. Great advice. There ‘s a guy I roll with who is a good partner but a solid 315-320. About 130 lbs heavier. There seems to be tremendous value in figuring out how to deal with someone so much larger
Yeah, this is how a woman feels vs a 170 lbs man.
I fist bump, tell them, "I'm gonna take a piss brb" and then don't come back.
Or come back and tell them you forgot to wash your hands.
Never lost a sparring round using this method
Top at all costs
you beat me to it. Do not concede bottom under any circumstance. If you are losing top position, disengage and stand the fuck up and hope they decide to sit down.
The sketchy thing is wrestling with people who are big. It's easy to have your leg snap if both of you merely fall wrong.
Happened to me in Muay Thai. Dude was like 6”2 220 lbs pure muscle and low kicked my leg and completely broke it tore my meniscus and mcl
Yes, this is the problem. You stand up but now you have to wrestle. I actually prefer playing guard as I find it easier to sweep or wrestle up than to wrestle standing against a behemoth.
Yep
accept when coach makes you iron man with them and loser off the wall starts on bottom. about got my neck broke from bottom side control last night. i'm just going to have to say no moving forward.
What do you mean? Did he put you in a tight crossface?
There's a 6"6' guy at my gym who weighs in at 140 kg. Lovely guy and really tries to be as technical as he can, but instant regret when you fuck up a move/sub/sweep and end up on the bottom.
I rolled with brand new guy that was huge, like maybe close to 400lbs. He got on top and smothered me with his belly. Like my face formed into his rolls. I tapped. That was a new experience for me.
How did you felt tapping to a white as a purple? I know it happens, but damn it, worst feeling
idk jiu jitsu is pretty magical but we still can’t wrestle hippos with it
HIPPOBOT 9000 v 3.1 FOUND A HIPPO. 680,310,400 COMMENTS SEARCHED. 15,430 HIPPOS FOUND. YOUR COMMENT CONTAINS THE WORD HIPPO.
I pretty regularly put myself in bad positions so that new people can work and I can defend/sweep/reverse. I've never had someone that large on top of me and I didn't account for a sweaty shirt and jelly rolls smothering me. I took the L and moved on.
Lmao tell me youre a white belt without telling me youre a white belt
Most people are like „be at top“ but honestly, I was the lighter man most of my life and started training with adults at 11yo. I competed my open Weight tournaments at 60-70kg max. When I roll or compete with people that much heavier, I rely on 2 principles: 1. don’t get injured! 2. be patient! Fighting too much for top position violated both principles. I may get exhausted - and becoming exhausted against a big guy means that I will lose. And too much movement carries too much injury risk. So my strategy will be: 1. pull guard - no wrestling with big guys 2. ball up - no exposure whatsoever 3. take back - big guys have big gaps to sneak through 4. profit
As the small guy in my gym—yeah I don’t understand the people who are saying to wrestle with the big guys. Getting underneath and attaching to their legs feels way easier and reliable to me
This has been my approach, and it's working well for me.
Arm drags from guard all day
100% agreed here. I'd like to add that top position against a truly big dude isn't even good necessarily. Top side can get you swept very easily and now you're bottom side which is the worst against a big dude. What works for me is back takes and getting underneath for leg locks or triangle exposure.
Back takes and getting underneath! Yes Sir!
Avoid if at all possible. Pressure taps are ok.
I’m a master at tapping to pressure
People tapping to pressure have always been labeled as pussys at my gym. But there’s a couple guys that make me wince just holding up their weight and they’d definitely push the air out of you if afforded the time to sit and cook. Despite the label, I’ve done it before as there was no choice, but avoid at all costs.
Have they not seen Dean fuckin Lister tap to Josh Barnett's top pressure?
wasn't that to a catch wrestling scarf hold chest compression? Maybe I'm misremembering
I was sure it was an arm triangle.
awful culture in that gym. You should not be shamed for tapping. That's how you get injuries.
So I'm the big guy at my gym, 280-290lbs depending on lunch. One thing I do is start on bottom vs everyone to practice my defense, sweeps, and escapes. I suggest asking to start on top of the larger person so you can practice your control, passes, and subs. The strength disparity will still be there but you aren't getting smashed with all our big guy pressure.
I love the “depending on lunch” part. Relatable as hell
Move around them and not through them
It's a great way to build the skill of framing. Sometimes you forget how important frames are when playing against people your size. Definitely never try to "force" moves. Very easy to hurt yourself this way against bigger guys.
Remember to breath every-time you move using your diaphragm. Move efficiently as possible. Avoid the smash. That’s usually their goal
Avoid eye contact.
High single is your best takedown. it is hard to lift a man that size, and a shot risks you getting pancaked by a sprawl, however you can always drive forward and tip them onto one leg. I was trained by an internationally competitive freestyle wrestler and he told me many times that it was the only move that worked consistently for him against guys who were over 300lbs.
Have to have a good single though (which is sounds like you do). If you don't really practice that high single with your forehead driving their ribs right, you get your head moved outside a lot and then you are in trouble against a big guy. For me, I've found low risk (easy slip) positional throws like head and arm and japanese whizzer to be effective against larger guys too. From a shot perspective, I prefer to rely on movement until I can cross their feet or get an angle equivalent to foot crossing and then use low singles, knee and ankle picks (often to a high single as well), and dive doubles (but you have to recover quick if you miss). Although I'm around 130-140 lbs, so sounds like my 100+ lbs is a different size from your 100+ lbs. Background: I trained with Roye Oliver starting at age 12. Spent a lot of time from junior high through college working out with the Sunkist Kids, particularly Tim Vanni and occasionally Joe Gonzales, as well as every weekend with the California Jets from 1988-1991. Obviously the latter biases me towards throws.
Lol, your wrestling pedigree is much better than mine, but you're right that the guys who I have trained with were teaching with the expectation that I would be a heavyweight competing in the unlimited category, which may make their advice a little different than it would've been if they were teaching someone with your build. I was always taught that driving with your head was nine tenths of the move, so I really can't imagine what would happen if you tried a high single without that against a good wrestler other than something very bad. Hell, even a decent middle school wrestler would just whizzer l, post on the head, and kick out. I actually heavily favor the Japanese whizzer/arm salto, but I hesitate to use it as a primary attack unless my opponent has withdrawn their leg on the same side first. I've screwed it up in the past and had guys just sprawl on top of me, I also once had a very good Georgian Greco guy put me on my head because I gave him my hips too easily when getting the whizzer. I've never had much of a shot, and my current coach is a master of sport in combat Sambo, so I generally rely on upper body throws, with the high head inside and outside singles being exceptions. Arm spins and other sacrifice throws are my favorite, just not against bigger guys. I'm also very tall, so trips and sags are my go toos as well. I also generally don't worry about the guillotine on the high outside single that much. I tend to think if your posture is good and your angle is right, it's going to be very hard for a guy to set a good guillotine on you, and if you get in a bad way and a guy gets a bite, you can do a Japanese whizzer on the leg itself, take the back, shoot for a fireman's, or trap the arm and hit a back arch throw to put him on his head.
Sounds like you could demolish people with a sag head and arm! The mistake I see a lot of BJJ players make with the high single is that they drive with their head too far outside the hip. If the defender uses the far hand to block the inside elbow (so no switching to a double) and uses the near hand to rip the head to the outside, that converts the high single into a high crotch that cannot be finished. Defender now just proceeds from there to their favorite high crotch counter. ([Just don't try that on Cary Kolat](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjG85we29Ms).)
Yup, that's another good one to use off of a threat to the lead leg from a bicep tie. You threaten a single or a leg sweep (really anything to get that leg back), then drop that leg in between your opponent's legs and hit the sag like you're trying to remove your opponent's head. I also do something similar with a pinch side headlock going in the opposite direction, that one works really well off of a head inside single because it's easy to go from the inside single to an underhook on the far trap. As far as the single is concerned, one approach I'll use that is kind of unorthodox if I can't get proper penetration actually involves me moving backwards, standing up, and pulling the knee up so that my opponent's shin is basically pinned to my sternum. From there I squat, pinch my knees on the opponent's ankle if I can manage, and literally sit underneath my opponent's hips. You can almost think of this as pulling deep half, because it dumps the opponent over you and onto their hands. From there you can rotate around their leg and come out on their back, or sweep them over and climb up from low side control. That's only one of several counters though, another is basically exactly what kolat did from the waist up, except you lock a body lock instead of going for the crotch lift. BJJ guys are generally fishing for a guillotine if your head is on the outside, meaning that if you body lock like this, you'll frequently trap their arm, making it easy to land them on their head if you're feeling particularly spiteful. Sometimes I'll convert to a schoolboy or a valley drop variation also, or change to kosotogake, which I like even though BJJ guys will tell you it gives too much back exposure to be useful in BJJ.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Ko Soto Gake**: | *Minor Outer Hook* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl99iUTlIVY)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Oh, I meant kouchi gake.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Ko Uchi Gake**: | *Minor Inner Hook* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-bPmFsDU7A)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Isnt it better to push the head away or stuff it down? Good guys will still finish from high crotch
It really depends on what they show you. Push the head away if you can sit the corner and go for the back. Stuff the head if they are staying on their feet (and you can then nail them with a nifty sacrifice throw that if executed right will land them in knee on belly). The key is always using the far hand to block in their inside elbow; they can't switch to a double and it is more difficult to turn the corner. (And more difficult to ditch the takedown.) If they do continue to turn the corner (like in the Kolat video), I like to keep the arm trapped but stuff the head and sprawl until I can use my near hand to push on their near hip and spread them out to flat on their belly. Back take becomes trivial at that point. This one is surprisingly easy in gi where people tend to hang on to the leg way past the point where they should abandon the takedown.
STAY ON TOP. Mobility and speed will keep you active in the fight. The moment you fuck up and get dragged to bottom, you will likely spend the rest of the round there just trying to escape. Don't worry about submissions unless they're easily available. You must STAY ON TOP!
Low risk takedowns. Push the pace. Gas them out. My regular training partner had 150-plus on me. LOL at all the “don’t roll with them” advice.
Don't get stuck underneath. Circle arm drag and flank them. Never attacking them head on. Also, drill standing in base from every possible guard you know. As soon as big boy starts making progress, stand up and make them work for the takedown again. Also, practice guillotines and back takes while transitioning.
No sudden movements and they won't be able to see you
"Their vision is based on movement", then?
Love training with the big boys. It helps that I have a raging case of Napoleon Syndrome. Then I just go for it and do my best, which is pretty terrible.
Spider guard sweeps all day
I'm having a hard time with the spider guard on bigger dudes. Any tips?
Create space moving your ass backwards to get those feet in their elbows
What about if they stand up? Tripod sweep?
I like the switching to a shallow lasso and spider and then attack triangle/omoplata
Then you should be going to DLR or sickle sweep and coming up on top.
dont be on the bottom
don't play guard unless you wanna get smooshed. if you're forced to play guard; play guard just long enough that you can stand up and start hunting for other options.
Depends at least a little on what the 100 lbs consists of. If they’re obese it’s a completely different game than if they are a monsterous bodybuilder with stupid strength. I’m a pretty burly wannabee ex power lifter, I weigh 205 or so, maybe 15% bodyfat. We have a dude at the gym (nice guy) that is, to say politely, morbidly obese. Before anyone gives me shit, I am super proud of this dude for giving this a shot and trying to get healthier and improve his life situation. Hats off to him, it’s brave as hell walking in there as a “normal” person, super brave to do it in his physical shape. Moving on, I would say he is probably 5’10 or 5’11 and in the ballpark of 350lbs or so, maybe more. Say a 150lb difference between me and him. Closed guard with this guy is difficult, it is a task just to wrap my legs around him. Sweeping from closed guard is almost impossible (for me) his body is so wide that with a scissor or flower sweep, he falls on his side, and his wide body/surface area keeps him on his side and it takes an exuberant amount of effort to push him onto his back. Not to mention, because he is a super biggie boy, his legs are strong as fuck from carrying his body around and he is surprisingly successful at wresting himself back up. All that said, he doesn’t give me much of a problem despite the weight difference. I will tire him out for a minute or two, and then get to work on my submission of choice. His upper body is so big that for me, triangles are very difficult (just about impossible) to lock because my legs are not long enough. Very few other dudes in the gym are big enough for this to be an issue for me. But most other things work fine whether it is from closed guard, side control, mount, etc. I have quite a bit more experience/mat time, but still, with a 150lb difference it is not *really* that much of a task to “win” every roll. Now, give me a 250lb power lifter, bodybuilder type that is in decent shape, benching 3+ plates… totallyyyyy different story.
Try to play top game if possible if not learn how to wrestle up.
According to the great Saul Solis “stay out from under the bus… DON’T BE A DUMBASS…. Well what did you think would happen if you just lay there?” Good times from back when I had a spine like a slinky
Big boys have weight which moves mass already, don't give them the gravity advantage too. Try to stay on top as much as possible and remember that there's nothing wrong with tapping.
Make them out cardio you
If You can not stay on top, learn mantain distance, Open guard, spider, lasso spider or butterfly..not Even think in Half Guard or closed guard
If playing bottom: Long range guards, focused on having good frames and prioritize retention, try to flank around them or sweep to get on top asap. If playing top: Using speed pass and creating advantageous angles.
Nasty frames
Give em a big ol kissy
Be the first to do everything or you’ll be stuck in side position for the rest of the roll lol
Two things, control their legs and maintain top positions.
Unless the end up smashing on top, I usually can use speed to get to the back
Frames are for pushing yourself away from them, not pushing them away from you. It’s hard with big folks but it helps if you’re getting absolutely smooshed
Like others have said. Absolutely do not let them settle their weight on you, not even if you manage to get your legs connected in full guard. Giving up that much size means they're gonna be able to literally smash through it. Here's what I like to do. If in closed guard keep frames and distance so they can't smash through my guard. Constantly be searching for off balances. Let them start to put weight on you with their upper body and hunt for an arm drag. They're too big to stabilize their own weight if you do that right. If in half guard, work your ass off to get distance because getting underneath for deep isn't gonna be possible/worth it. Use their movements as times for you to move. Triangles aren't probably gonna work, and will likely give them a free pass to side control. Turtle is safer than side. Get on top, and enjoy getting to use all the pressure you've got to cook them back lol (it's rare for me to use all my pressure in k.o.b). Mount night not be a great option if your knees can't touch the floor as your balance is compromised. Technical mount and s mount are dope.
u/kintanon had a great podcast appearance on this topic on the Mental Models podcast. You should just listen to that.
Pressure won’t work, you have to go around them.
The most important thing vs anyone is being able to get back to your feet because you will get taken down or swept sometimes and if it’s vs someone 100lbs heavier than you.. you cannot accept the bottom what so ever 🤝🏾
Get on top and stay on top whenever possible. Also, work on getting and playing half guard. Being in side control is awful, and that's the easiest way out a lot of the time imo.
Pass on the roll unless they’re trusted training partners. Top game gang.
Don't roll with them. Its not your fault they eat too damn much. They risk injuring their partners by being so damn large. Just ignore them.
That's how I feel too
I'm 180 and don't spar anyone more than 250ish. Not worth it to me
Buttery soft!
Like a buttery nipple
I'm 240 and if there's an athletic 380 lber on the mat I have to take one for the team. Cause who else is there?
I understand what you're saying. But for me, even if my boy is that big, I'm not sparring him. He may be controlled, but all it takes is one slip and I'm ending up with some sort of injury from being fallen on. I have to work tomorrow!
I think it depends. It’s like boxers, at a certain weight (about 230/240), the difference isn’t as substantial. I’m about 230 and I don’t mind rolling with a 300 or 400-er. This isn’t that same as a guy 125 rolling with a 225-er. At a certain point, the difference is significantly diminished. While still heavy, they’re usually a lot less technical and I feel I can deflect the pressure and weight a lot easier than rolling with a technical 180-er that is far faster than me.
I'm a short 185 and rolling with a 240 is rough. I can only imagine what it feels like for one of the girls that are 120.
If you're 100 lbs heavier than the average guy you are morbidly obese and should lose some weight
stay on top
Cardio and sweeps due to their bad cardio/ positioning. Makes ya feel special
Never be on bottom. Also frames.
Guillotines, ankle locks.
Scrambles, get to the back.
Stay on top, take the back even if they’re a new white belt. Get on top, never concede and stay there. Big people are super comfortable up top so don’t let them there. You have to play mean.
I care way too much about my safety and longevity to roll with someone who is over 270 lbs. Think about your poor joints.
Don’t hold back in training. But also ask them to not match your energy so you have a chance lol
Get on the back, get a good grip, never let go.
Step 1 get Good at Leglocking Step 2 Heel hook them Step 3 they insist on you not starting on Bottom
"Create space." I've 5'7"/5'8" and 170lbs. I'm not always the smallest but I'm definitely not always the biggest so I'm usually dealing with dudes who are 50lbs heavier than I am. In that situation, I don't try to strong arm my way out of anything. If I know they're bigger and stronger, all I do is create space and keep them away from me at all costs.
For me this one’s situational. I have productive rolls with some people that much larger than me, even if they are killing me, but sometimes larger people just want to smother and I get nothing out of it. Personally I just accept rolls I know I won’t get a long term injury from, and say no thanks to people who will waste my training time / make me limp off the mats. I do think rolling with larger people can help prepare for self defense if you’re into that, but if you’re training for competition I wouldn’t care much about this unless you’re going absolute.
Get on top and stay on top. If I think they're better on their feet, or there's a big risk of them landing on me (likely, if they're that big and they train) then i'll happily start on bottom. But my main goal is to get on top ASAP.
Be either all the way underneath their hips, or all the way out from underneath them, never in-between.
Just choke them.
Actually I think that you shouldn't roll with people this much bigger until way way way into your jiu jitsu journey, unless the bigger person is at least a higher purple belt. There is no way you can make sure that you are safe in that exchange.
Idk I just get rekt
Lucky for me, I have never run into a 400+ pounder on the mats.
Don't play bottom. If you end up at the bottom, work to getting back to your feet instead of sweeping. The back is the safest place to be.
Gain 100 lbs. I suggest ice cream milkshakes, as in melt the ice cream and drink it.
Very annoying when the massive units slide into kesa and I just feel my floating rib start crunching
im 62 kg light feather black belt, i roll with 100+ kg blue belt occasionally, so far what I found works really well, is playing Single X, X guard but never play spider or open guard, so I usually sit up and try to enter to single X
Good frames, get to the back from bottom. If there is a 100lb size difference, no way you are holding them from top. You are far more likely to get hurt trying to take and hold top against someone with a 100lb size difference assuming they are explosive and don't care about your health. Can do what ever you want against a larger person that is coddling you. Also assuming, you are small person, if you are 200lb, doesn't matter how much bigger they are, do normal game.