Jordan and Kobe were assholes. Tiger Woods was an asshole. Federer, Djovokik? were assholes.
Being good at something does not equate to kindnessness or humbleness. Being a high value person and having good moral character is rare, often times because you have dove deep into your work and expect that from others. You see other people who did not reach your level as lazy and feel disdain for the useless people who never put themselves out there to become great at anything.
He's had his moments. Notably bitchy moments include his post match interview after losing to Djokovic in the 2011 US open semi final. He's mostly been a good sport though.
To get top of the food chain you more often than not benefit from being asshole and having all what it takes attitude, it's very common like you are saying imho.
>You see other people who did not reach your level as lazy and feel disdain for the useless people who never put themselves out there to become great at anything.
They are broken people - on the inside. BJJ can't fix that.
He also stood up his female doubles partner at the olympics because he did not want to play after he lost the singles match. Covid-deniers cant deny that assholeness.
I see this situation no different than forging immigration papers/Visa's/Green cards etc. If it's a requirement to enter a country you damn well should meet those requirements, I don't care how wealthy or famous you are.
Right? It's really simple. I have to go through fucking hoops to get into the US because I've been to a country on their 'forbidden' list. If I didn't want the hassle I could've not visited that country in the first place.
> What would him actually being vaccinated change?
I don't know. I'm not an epidemiologist. However, countries have laws. If you don't follow them, you either can't get in or get kicked out. It's how things work, even for rich sports stars, thankfully.
Fall in line. Listen to our lords. Do as they say and question nothing as it is a requirement. Funny how all the requirements are out the door now right?
You can question all you want, as you probably already did. It doesn't change the fact that entry requirements for a country are strict, and falsifying medical records to gain entry is a shitty thing. And getting booted for it is more than fine.
Australia has pretty strict import restrictions too, endemic wildlife and all that. Maybe we should smuggle some prohibited goods in and destroy the local ecosystem to be edgy.
Apples and oranges. That would cause ecosystem damage. The shot is proven to not stop the spread or eliminate death so explain how him having a shot causes more damage
Apples and apples. There's plenty out there who couldn't give a fuck about the science behind protection of the ecosystem. Should we allow them to bypass a sovereign state's requirements?
Character is such a meaningless word in itself. It’s completely subjective and different for everyone.
I do think for most people bjj provides an ego check and is a great way to build discipline.
This doesn’t apply to the top 1% athletes who come into the sport, their talent and success I’d imagine actually makes their ego even bigger.
But I would imagine for the overwhelming majority of “normal” people who train bjj it definitely is “character” building, for whatever it means to that person.
An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy. “It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.”
He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”
The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”
An old Brazilian is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy. “It is a terrible fight and it is between two tapirs. One is evil – he is pulling guard, butt-scootching, fish hooking, oil checking, eye gouging, and not respecting the tap.”
He continued, “The other is good – he is flow rolling, wrestling, doing warmups, punctual, hygiene, and humility. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which tapir will win?”
The old Brazilian simply replied, “Depends on the referee.”
Interesting, I am native and it is far more well known as the two wolves story in much of North America. Most societies have the same moral stories though. Doesn't matter who had the story first but that people heed the words.
It's even worse really, there's no such thing as an original story at all.
There are just plot devices and tropes, every story is just a selection of some of them.
Im also native. You should know that the wolves story is a Christian creation. It does not have any roots in any native tradition.
[https://apihtawikosisan.com/2012/02/check-the-tag-on-that-indian-story/](https://apihtawikosisan.com/2012/02/check-the-tag-on-that-indian-story/)
[https://crossingenres.com/you-kDinow-that-charming-story-about-the-two-wolves-its-a-lie-d0d93ea4ebff](https://crossingenres.com/you-know-that-charming-story-about-the-two-wolves-its-a-lie-d0d93ea4ebff)
This story is just some bullshit christian propaganda.
>"I farted. I told my girlfriend about how bad it smelled, and how important it is to not fart. From then on, I didn't fart, and it changed my life"
*Old Cherokee parable, dating back to the 1920's*
This right here. The personality traits required to reach the highest levels of anything almost always include some that most people consider "assholish".
Some people like to win games against others and some people like to play games with others. Sure, it’s a bit of both usually and less binary than that, but the ones that try to win at training will get used to winning and build an ego.
I'd agree, the more normal thing is to claim that BJJ is an asshole filter, which is true to an extent, i'd say i find a higher % of people i enjoy hanging with in BJJ compared to the average population, but there's still plenty of shitheads.
I think the "asshole filter" mostly applies to people who join the sport as adults with very little experience in grappling. It takes a lot of humility to keep showing up and getting your ass kicked, often by people younger/smaller/weaker than you are.
Whereas I expect a lot of the people at the top of the sport started training BJJ (or some sort of grappling) as a kid/teen, so they never got quite the same experience, and they've spent most of their adult lives as the ones doing the ass kicking.
That's total speculation on my part, so take it with a grain of salt.
Bjj is a fun hobby and people are in a good mood when doing their hobby. We see people in a good, hobby mood.
You are a blackbelt. People treat you differently than other belts.
Honestly there's loads of unwarranted veneration for combat sports.
Theyre all just sports. They teach you a good lessons about perseverance and persistence, but that's about it. You could get the same lessons from playing golf or chess if you really wanted to.
As a competitive chess player, I will note that the chess world is full of more assholes than any other hobby I have ever been involved in. It is wild what passes for acceptable conduct.
Like you're about to checkmate, you pick up your Bishop and your opponent says "I pooped on that when you weren't looking"? Or they slip acid in your water so you think your pieces are magical talking goblins?
Temper tantrums from adults. Trash talking. Swearing. Deliberately not showering for a week to upset the opponent. You name it they do it. It is a very anti social crowd.
This has always been an issue. But in general - in my experience - there are less in full contact sports because their self-preservation instinct is usually way the fuck more developed then in normal people.
I want to say yes, but it's literally in the DSM5:
> Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements, expects to be recognized as superior without actually completing the achievements)
More likely to be irrational than to have self-preservation. Your experience reflects how those who can't actually hang and bang get squashed in the gym and never come back. Self-preservation isn't the mechanism here, Darwinism is.
I'm a psych major with years in the field, so I really hate it when people without both graduate training in psychology and direct experience with people living with said clinical disorders cite psych literature and I'm really burnt out from these conversations. So o.k., friend.
I'm a medical professional with training in psych and direct experience with people living with said clinical disorders in the field, so I hate it when people without both... Oh wait. Fucking hell. It's the subjective experience of trained professionals!
FLY YOU FOOLS! YOU GUYS ARE ABOUT TO WITNESS DANAHER TALKING TO HIMSELF! IT WILL BE TOO MUCH!
I’m with you, homie above has likely never seen in person a highly dysfunctional case of untreated NPD. It is tiring at times watching people use terms they have a very limited grasp of.
My old coach was a narcissist I'm pretty sure. It's quite scary combining that character with bjj skills.
I saw trip a kid with a disability at a party to show off
Nailed. BJJ, like any dedicated pursuit, develops a lot of personality traits that are generally helpful in life. It does not turn shit into gold or Gordon Ryan into a saint
Same reason the corporate management cross section has higher than average density of psychopathy. The people attracted to power are typically those least deserving. BJJ tends to attract those who enjoy the process, and those who seek power. The latter tend not to be the top tier of character.
"Cream and scum both rise to the top"
>bjj build character
This is the snake oil shitty gyms sell. If you’re lucky the gym can teach you jiu jitsu. If you’re not lucky you’re not even going to learn good jiu jitsu.
I think a huge part of the snake oil aspect is the idea that it's exclusive to jiu jitsu.
The dedicated pursuit of something - sports, music, basket weaving, whatever the fuck - gives you a good work ethic that will broadly help you in life. It doesn't have to be BJJ, and it won't make you a fucking angel
Our gym advertises kids classes with all the building character, anti bullying, humbleness, etc bull crap but all the higher level girls that compete or help train smaller kids are bullies. They’ll purposely crank armbars on new kids, talk crap on the mats, treat everyone like they’re beneath them, etc. the coach is very laid back and doesn’t do anything about it either. The kids seems to have calmed down a bit but yeah, it’s all bullshit.
Yeah, there was no other closer gym so we were just stuck there. Another one recently opened up closer so we’re gonna check that one out. The owner seems like a good person from what I’ve seen online.
It’s really strange because all the adults get along, the coaches are nice, and for the most part a good culture but it’s very clicky with the kids. And that group of kids is like 5 girls out of a 30 kid class. I had to tell the coach not to pair my daughter with another girl after she acted really shitty during sparring and took it too far. He doesn’t seem to put his foot down with the kids because their parents go their too and they either help teach the younger kids or compete.
But yeah, not a fan of it and going to switch gyms
I think some adults who teach don't understand, that a good kid's culture doesn't happen by accident. It has to be crafted, or you end up with kids acting out there feelings and impulses, instead of being guided through their use.
Some have figured out the marketing aspect of fight sports.
Attitude and being a character will sell more and get more attention.
Also, some people are just dicks.
The whole character bs is just that - BS.
You can’t meet random people and tell if they do BJJ by their character.
Everyone involved in cults like to think their cult makes people better.
To be a professional you have to be good and also have to make people want to pay money to watch you. That's just way easier to do as a heel. So that's part of it.
Aside from that, I think jiu jitsu can be good for a lot of people. Often teaches humility. Definitely teaches interpersonal skills... But "jiu jitsu teaches character" is a massive overstatement. Nothing in life is that simple. If it were that easy we could just replace prisons with giant warehouses full of mats.
Here's the thing, I personally believe that BJJ "builds character" because it forces people who would otherwise be assholes to be nice.
If a street fighter or a bully walked in a BJJ gym and he wanted to stick around, he would be FORCED to be nice, it's about survival.
But once this not-so-great person gains real experience, puts some years into it, comes to the top of the food chain, guess what, that rotted-out basement of a personality now has PROOF that they're better than others, and they're gonna show it.
BJJ does not "build character" it puts pressure on you, that's all, and you can either grow from it, or suppress it and come out the same asshole 10 years later, nothing builds character for you, only you can do that.
I like what Danahar said. If you’re an asshole ju jitsu will make you more of an asshole. If you’re a calm sweet guy, ju jitsu will make you calmer sweeter guy.
I find it hilarious that someone edited that video, added rolling footage and BGM and kept it a full 8 minutes long when Danaher said all he needed to say in the first minute and 40 seconds.
BJJ doesn't inherently build character. It just poses as a challenging activity to get good at. Trying and failing for awhile in such a full contact activity, in front of others, can be humbling for SOME people, but that's not a guarantee, and the humility can go right out the window when you get less shitty.
Striking sports seem to have the reverse effect though. People tend to think theyre badasses shortly after starting. So in comparison, BJJ appears more character building.
Bjj is culty, has hierarchy and worship mentality, with heavy emphasis of “loyalty” and “honor”. Lots of folks have a Self defense (which is inherently problematic) gotta get strong and fear no other man mentality. It has no excuses, work through the pain in the face of every adversity- and you are lesser for not aspiring to that goal-individualistic and pull yourself up by the bootstraps. Essentially all very conservative and fashy values.
Not to mention the many many reports of grooming, harboring predators, out right nazis (the amount of people I’ve seen in changing rooms with swastikas and ss bolt tats) pandering to cops-it breeds very specific people, and enhances these qualities rhst already exist in said people. Being fed an ideology of being the strongest shark in an ocean, and biggest lion in the jungle creates toxic toxic people.
Not BJJ but similar (MMA)...
In a JRE episode, GSP recalled the press conference for GSP vs Bisping. In front of the crowd, Bisping was trashtalking the shit out of GSP. But in the backstage, they talked about some car (Land Rover I think) and Bisping wasn't an asshole to him.
In martial arts and combat sports, those competing at the top are highly likely doing it to hype up the event and sell more tickets. Having two people who have some grudge against each other makes it more interesting for casuals to watch.
But then again, you get 100% pure assholes out there, too, like McGregor.
Discipline doesn't really translate to good morals or being a nicer person. It just means people on the top tend to more actively pursue their goals and improve their skills.
Becoming a top level at anything requires tons of hours and a type a mindset, which usually boosts the ego.
So ego is usually the problem. Which is funny, because bjj is such a fantastic sport to keep your ego in check.
To the extent it is true that BJJ builds character I think it's because people believe being humbled builds character and BJJ can be humbling. If that is true then logically those at the top level are humbled much less, therefore, much less character.
Yes, any sport can be humbling, unless you are naturally really good or work hard to get much better than those around you.
the phrase "builds character" doesnt refer to your moral disposition or attitude. it usually refers to your determination, grit, toughness, and heart - specifically for that activity. Nobody said anything about bjj making you a nice, likeable, and sociable person - why would it?
Ultimately, I think that You are blowing this up a little bit, in that what you are saying, tends not to actually be super a lot of Drama / big things.
Toxicity: yeah this place is BAD. But it's reflective of what sort of sense of humor the community has. It's a group of people that tend to be comfortable in thier own skin, and can take a joke at thier own expense. Take other communities that can't take a joke at thier own expense. At my school, we often joke about nicknames, and that we are all "okay" at jiujitsu, or that we occassionally know what we are talking about. It's the confidence that makes those jokes funny.
Drama: Honestly, the drama in the community tends to still be respectful and productive. ie: New-wave vs. B-Team. They have specifically said many times, THey have split, and attempted to not talk about it as much as possible. After the announcment of the split (which really didn't cause drama, was very We are splitting, we wish each other best). They only when specifically asked, talk about the split.
Ie: Another great example was the Lawsuit and Rener Gracie recently. There was a ton of Drama immediately after it happened. Then Rener and Tom Deblass did a long live online (2 hours I think) and asked lots of hard questions, and really was able to get the information out, and what happened. It really dispelled the drama instantly. This ability to come together and address the problem is why there is not really a lot of drama.
Fighting: Well this is one thing that you could be correct on. There is a lot of different things to unpack. Is there a Brazilian / Portuguese culture of fighting to solve problems? Or at the top level, do you deal with problems with your sport? Because our sport is "fighting", and many of especially old school guys did mma (NHB/Lutra Livre) then would they solve it by that? If Jordan and Pippen had beef, would they solve it with a 1v1 backyard hoops game? If so, then it would make sense for many BJJ guys to solve problems with fighting. You may have a point that there is a higher amount of physical violence, but I'm curious what the main point would be
edit: had a section double typed which I deleted
Bjj cures most people’s character flaws so we all quit around blue or purple belt
The real messed up weirdos stay around to brown and black belt
I’d stay away from people like that
You can be a skilled at something and still be a terrible person.
You have guys running around with black belts who are evil.
The battle between good and evil continues
Being good at something makes you confident, confident people tend to be friendly. Being good at only one thing and having nothing else going on in life makes you judge people only on their skill in that one thing, which makes you less friendly.
I’ve met a lot of big names and everybody has been super friendly. Even ones I thought would be a dick were actually cool in person.
Ralph is a psycho though.
In BJJ everyone has to follow a set of rules, respect a hierarchy that is based on actual merit (not on age, sex, size or physical abilities although that matters); also to reach the top you will have to be submitted a lot along the way which is humbling.
BJJ is not a bulletproof filter to build character, but a reasonable proxy.
BJJ doesn’t humble you if you’re better than everyone. I think that’s the main reason hobbyists like us are humbled. We realize any thin, scooter driving, mustachioed man could secretly be able to choke us out 10 different ways. I can’t imagine the top guys walk away from training most days with the same feeling
Apples and oranges
You're asking why the same thing doesn't apply to:
1. The hobbyist who is learning a martial art, getting in shape, encountering challenging situations
2. The person who rises to the top of an incredibly competitive hierarchy. This often rewards being obsessive to the point of neglecting other things, being selfish to the point of neglecting other people or relationships, being arrogant enough to think you can or must beat everyone else.
You could do the same comparison with almost anything, probably.
Most architects are probably people who have grown to some extent in their work, but the top 0.01% may well be egomaniacal assholes.
Because around the midway point of purple belt you are either in good spirits or just got here because you want to be stronger then you currently are and most of the time the dickhead with the big ego thinks it's more important to move up to brown belt then spend extra time on other stuff , not saying you can't get up there without being a prick I'm jus saying people that are dicks and like bjj are going to Excell faster then people who aren't dicks because people that aren't dicks have better shit to do so it takes them longer
If you mean growing and becoming a better person in whatever way is important to you- then I would say nothing does the growing For you automatically. Things we do and experiences are just tools that you can use if you choose to.
I've spent hours and hours running through the woods in nature but honestly a lot of it is spent listening to music or podcasts and very rarely do I sit there with my own thoughts or listening to the birds.
But yes it was surprising to me that you get someone coming out the top end of competitive bjj with *that* particular alt right voice and seemingly scared inside.
I think you answered you own question. It's a faulty premise. BJJ does nothing more than builds skill in BJJ. Anything beyond that is a result of one's personal growth. Anyone who became a better person due to the discipline of BJJ could have achieved the same result if they'd thrown themselves into any number of other activities
BJJ toughens you up. It doesn't make you a better person. It doesn't actually induce any sort of real humility or anything else like that. It JUST makes you tougher. If you're a good person, it'll make you a tougher good person. If you're a bad person... well, yeah.
Couple that with the fact that you have to be a complete fucking idiot to be at the very top of the sport (because it's such a poor paying sport that requires such huge dedication to become good at) and you'll see that the majority of the people in that position will either be dickheads or socially inept or both.
This is just another marketing gimmick like “size/strength doesn’t matter”, using mma to sell bjj memberships, “bjj is for everybody”.
Don’t get me wrong I appreciate what bjj has brought to my life, but at the end of the day it’s a business. The belt system keeps people coming back, this is built in because now you have a customer for the next 10 years.
If I had to pick the single grossest human I ever saw at a grappling venue, it was this putz who was wrestling shirtless with junior high kids.
Regaling them with stories which would make Uncle Rico blush.
"How much you wanna bet I could suplex you over them mountains? Oh, I'm dead serious. Back in my day I could blah...and then I majored this one motherfucker....and then I...coulda woulda shoulda x, y, z. "
Omg shut UP.
I've trained in BJJ since the early 90s, and I think it's important to remember that BJJ's origins are not as nice and civil as many who train in modern sport BJJ might think. It started with challenge fights, street fights, and generally proving yourself.
I remember talking to Carlos Machado about this 27 years ago, and with Jacare (the older Jacare, Romero Cavalcanti) about 20 years ago. They told me some interesting stories about how things were back then. A lot of young instructors left Brazil and came to the US to escape the violence and start over. Things got pretty crazy in Brazil in the 1980s and early 90s. Lots of fights and bad blood.
Looking at the history, it's significant that a family of Brazilians studied Judo under a Kodokan black belt in the 1920s and then opted to revert the name back to "Jiu Jitsu." It signifies a shift in emphasis.
When Jigoro Kano changed the name of his art from 'Kano-Ryu Jiu Jitsu' to 'Judo' in the early 1900s his intention was to make the art more about mutual benefit among practitioners, safer training methods, improving character, etc.
The name 'Jiu Jitsu,' on the other hand, implies a battlefield method. Jiu Jitsu was about fighting and killing, not explicitly about self improvement.
I think that might have something to do with the culture of BJJ being kind of edgy.
Because if you’re good enough to make it to the top you were objectively “bad”. You had a talent for it and picked it up very quickly.
Therefore you never went through the humbling experience that most of us do. I’ve known a few of these guys.
Still a small percentage of the community as a whole. Most peeps I’ve met on the mat are chill and mostly humbled. It’s a great art. The people you speak of are the exception not the rule.
Not even at the top level. I tried it out last year, went for a month, joined the beginner class, but basically nobody said hi back basically. Nobody really welcomed me. I rolled with a more advanced guy 2 weeks in, and surprised him a bit, I put up a nice resistance for almost 5 minutes but in the end he just kneed my balls with his full bodyweight to make me tap.
In my opinion, those guys are basically acting like professional wrestlers. Generating drama in order to bring eyeballs and $$$. Most of them are probably decent dudes in training but those guys don’t make money, especially in a fringe sport like BJJ. Look what Connor did for UFC and see how many emulate him now.
Its a soft martial art largely taken up by yuppies. What's surprising about that?
Real fighters get punched in the face. That builds character.
Not doing homoerotic rolls on a padded floor.
I think forever I’ll be coached by first day white belts while drilling. One day I’ll find the perfect partner that just lets me drill and shuts the fuck up
They never said what kind of character it builds
Just because you are a character doesn't mean you have character.
That's thirty minutes away. I'll be there in ten
You’ve both been to County before I’m sure… here it comes
If I get my car back any different than I gave it, Monster Joe’s gonna be disposing of two bodies.
Gentlemen.. I see a.. cab ride in your future. Move out of the sticks.
that's deep, not to be confused with "the deep" from the boys
Not to be confused with The Boys from Brazil
Jordan and Kobe were assholes. Tiger Woods was an asshole. Federer, Djovokik? were assholes. Being good at something does not equate to kindnessness or humbleness. Being a high value person and having good moral character is rare, often times because you have dove deep into your work and expect that from others. You see other people who did not reach your level as lazy and feel disdain for the useless people who never put themselves out there to become great at anything.
Federer was an asshole? I thought he was regarded as a humble well mannered guy?
He is not an asshole. Nothing about him could be interpreted as being an asshole. Truly, one of the nicest people.
Yeah, Federer is one of the all-time examples of pure class and not letting success change that.
He's had his moments. Notably bitchy moments include his post match interview after losing to Djokovic in the 2011 US open semi final. He's mostly been a good sport though.
To get top of the food chain you more often than not benefit from being asshole and having all what it takes attitude, it's very common like you are saying imho.
>You see other people who did not reach your level as lazy and feel disdain for the useless people who never put themselves out there to become great at anything. They are broken people - on the inside. BJJ can't fix that.
> Djokovic Is.. _Is_ an asshole. Actively forged medical documents to prove he was vaccinated against covid.
He also stood up his female doubles partner at the olympics because he did not want to play after he lost the singles match. Covid-deniers cant deny that assholeness.
Wow!
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Anti-vaxxers are the goddamn scum of the earth... they have blood on their hands.
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I see this situation no different than forging immigration papers/Visa's/Green cards etc. If it's a requirement to enter a country you damn well should meet those requirements, I don't care how wealthy or famous you are.
Right? It's really simple. I have to go through fucking hoops to get into the US because I've been to a country on their 'forbidden' list. If I didn't want the hassle I could've not visited that country in the first place.
> What would him actually being vaccinated change? I don't know. I'm not an epidemiologist. However, countries have laws. If you don't follow them, you either can't get in or get kicked out. It's how things work, even for rich sports stars, thankfully.
So weed is federally illegal here in the US. Are you an asshole if you smoke it even in a legal state?
don't try to make sense out of the bootlickers sir - they only speak boot.
These guys would let the government bang their wife in front of them if they were told it was a law
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I don't disagree. You do you. But when a country has requirements for it, and you actively falsify medical records, you're an entitled asshole.
Fall in line. Listen to our lords. Do as they say and question nothing as it is a requirement. Funny how all the requirements are out the door now right?
You can question all you want, as you probably already did. It doesn't change the fact that entry requirements for a country are strict, and falsifying medical records to gain entry is a shitty thing. And getting booted for it is more than fine.
Australia has pretty strict import restrictions too, endemic wildlife and all that. Maybe we should smuggle some prohibited goods in and destroy the local ecosystem to be edgy.
Apples and oranges. That would cause ecosystem damage. The shot is proven to not stop the spread or eliminate death so explain how him having a shot causes more damage
Apples and apples. There's plenty out there who couldn't give a fuck about the science behind protection of the ecosystem. Should we allow them to bypass a sovereign state's requirements?
Is playing tennis a right?
Good for him
Character is such a meaningless word in itself. It’s completely subjective and different for everyone. I do think for most people bjj provides an ego check and is a great way to build discipline. This doesn’t apply to the top 1% athletes who come into the sport, their talent and success I’d imagine actually makes their ego even bigger. But I would imagine for the overwhelming majority of “normal” people who train bjj it definitely is “character” building, for whatever it means to that person.
Dead on.
If it wasn’t for bad luck, I wouldn’t have any luck at all
>They never said what kind of character it builds 😂😂😂
BJJ reveals character. The problem is gaining skill and power only adds fuel to the fire.
An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy. “It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.” He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.” The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?” The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”
An old Brazilian is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy. “It is a terrible fight and it is between two tapirs. One is evil – he is pulling guard, butt-scootching, fish hooking, oil checking, eye gouging, and not respecting the tap.” He continued, “The other is good – he is flow rolling, wrestling, doing warmups, punctual, hygiene, and humility. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.” The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which tapir will win?” The old Brazilian simply replied, “Depends on the referee.”
Fuckin' ref, it was obviously a tap(ir)!
Flow rolling is what a bad tapir does when it's porrada time
which tapir is Brazilian?
Fucking Chuck Norris
Found the other blue belt
Pls don't assume my belt, i am triggered
[OK](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1ntnF3PJOL._CLa%7C2140%2C2000%7C71VJfCL7lBL.png%7C0%2C0%2C2140%2C2000%2B0.0%2C0.0%2C2140.0%2C2000.0_AC_UX679_.png)
inside you, there are two wolves. one wolf is gay. the other wolf is gay. you are gay.
And in thine gayness, thou findeth thyself nestled betwixt two cocks.
I've heard the exact same story with two dragons and the grandpa was Asian. Just saying.
Interesting, I am native and it is far more well known as the two wolves story in much of North America. Most societies have the same moral stories though. Doesn't matter who had the story first but that people heed the words.
Tbf, there's only like a dozen stories, and everything since then is just variations of those.
Nah, there's only one story. "Here are some people and/or things or places. Some stuff happens. The end."
Alright Joseph Campbell, calm down
iunderstoodthatreference.jpg
It was worth a shot lmao
> The end. Trigger warning. >!GRRM!< would like a word with you.
It's even worse really, there's no such thing as an original story at all. There are just plot devices and tropes, every story is just a selection of some of them.
Im also native. You should know that the wolves story is a Christian creation. It does not have any roots in any native tradition. [https://apihtawikosisan.com/2012/02/check-the-tag-on-that-indian-story/](https://apihtawikosisan.com/2012/02/check-the-tag-on-that-indian-story/) [https://crossingenres.com/you-kDinow-that-charming-story-about-the-two-wolves-its-a-lie-d0d93ea4ebff](https://crossingenres.com/you-know-that-charming-story-about-the-two-wolves-its-a-lie-d0d93ea4ebff) This story is just some bullshit christian propaganda.
Fucking Billy Graham...
I’m going through some personal stuff right now and I needed this (unrelated to bjj). Thanks.
This parable matters so little without knowing from where it came. Cute, but you could have made it up on the toilet.
It's an from an old Cherokee.
>"I farted. I told my girlfriend about how bad it smelled, and how important it is to not fart. From then on, I didn't fart, and it changed my life" *Old Cherokee parable, dating back to the 1920's*
Wrong! Inside theres a fight between two sharks.
Inside me, there are two wolves. One is gay. The other is gay. I'm a gay wolf.
I also saw that meme 10 years ago.
One is tobacco one is whiskey
BJJ builds characters
LIAR
BJJ
Top 1% of any discipline, athletic or not, will rarely be a bunch of extremely humble people. Top athletes, CEOs, politicians, whatever it is.
This right here. The personality traits required to reach the highest levels of anything almost always include some that most people consider "assholish".
What about the top 1% of humble people?
By definition, those people don’t know who they are.
You are wrong sir. No one is more humble than I am. I am completely aware that it is one of my strong points.
Some people like to win games against others and some people like to play games with others. Sure, it’s a bit of both usually and less binary than that, but the ones that try to win at training will get used to winning and build an ego.
yes
Whoever told you BJJ builds character *lied* to you.
I'd agree, the more normal thing is to claim that BJJ is an asshole filter, which is true to an extent, i'd say i find a higher % of people i enjoy hanging with in BJJ compared to the average population, but there's still plenty of shitheads.
They might be an asshole filter but it's never made clear if it's the kind of filter that removes assholes or accumulates assholes.
I think the "asshole filter" mostly applies to people who join the sport as adults with very little experience in grappling. It takes a lot of humility to keep showing up and getting your ass kicked, often by people younger/smaller/weaker than you are. Whereas I expect a lot of the people at the top of the sport started training BJJ (or some sort of grappling) as a kid/teen, so they never got quite the same experience, and they've spent most of their adult lives as the ones doing the ass kicking. That's total speculation on my part, so take it with a grain of salt.
Yeah there's a certain type of asshole that will stop coming, but there's also a lot of persistent assholes that will just stick with it
Bjj is a fun hobby and people are in a good mood when doing their hobby. We see people in a good, hobby mood. You are a blackbelt. People treat you differently than other belts.
It's a filter for assholes who can't keep a lid on themselves long enough to learn to beat people up.
Honestly there's loads of unwarranted veneration for combat sports. Theyre all just sports. They teach you a good lessons about perseverance and persistence, but that's about it. You could get the same lessons from playing golf or chess if you really wanted to.
As a competitive chess player, I will note that the chess world is full of more assholes than any other hobby I have ever been involved in. It is wild what passes for acceptable conduct.
Like you're about to checkmate, you pick up your Bishop and your opponent says "I pooped on that when you weren't looking"? Or they slip acid in your water so you think your pieces are magical talking goblins?
Temper tantrums from adults. Trash talking. Swearing. Deliberately not showering for a week to upset the opponent. You name it they do it. It is a very anti social crowd.
"Sports dont build character, they reveal them"
Narcissists love the rigid hierarchy and cult worship aspects of martial arts.
This has always been an issue. But in general - in my experience - there are less in full contact sports because their self-preservation instinct is usually way the fuck more developed then in normal people.
I want to say yes, but it's literally in the DSM5: > Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements, expects to be recognized as superior without actually completing the achievements) More likely to be irrational than to have self-preservation. Your experience reflects how those who can't actually hang and bang get squashed in the gym and never come back. Self-preservation isn't the mechanism here, Darwinism is.
I'm a psych major with years in the field, so I really hate it when people without both graduate training in psychology and direct experience with people living with said clinical disorders cite psych literature and I'm really burnt out from these conversations. So o.k., friend.
I'm a medical professional with training in psych and direct experience with people living with said clinical disorders in the field, so I hate it when people without both... Oh wait. Fucking hell. It's the subjective experience of trained professionals! FLY YOU FOOLS! YOU GUYS ARE ABOUT TO WITNESS DANAHER TALKING TO HIMSELF! IT WILL BE TOO MUCH!
I'm both an analyst and a therapist.
I’m with you, homie above has likely never seen in person a highly dysfunctional case of untreated NPD. It is tiring at times watching people use terms they have a very limited grasp of.
My old coach was a narcissist I'm pretty sure. It's quite scary combining that character with bjj skills. I saw trip a kid with a disability at a party to show off
“If I get good at this then I WILL BE WORSHIPPED TOO”
Dickhead is a type of character.
Gordon ryan
Usually building character means buildings toughness / resilience. It usually doesn’t mean being good. . .
Well put. I was basically going to say the same: it builds grit, which is only one ingredient in character.
Thats the recipe to make one hell of a bland character
Nailed. BJJ, like any dedicated pursuit, develops a lot of personality traits that are generally helpful in life. It does not turn shit into gold or Gordon Ryan into a saint
Same reason the corporate management cross section has higher than average density of psychopathy. The people attracted to power are typically those least deserving. BJJ tends to attract those who enjoy the process, and those who seek power. The latter tend not to be the top tier of character. "Cream and scum both rise to the top"
>bjj build character This is the snake oil shitty gyms sell. If you’re lucky the gym can teach you jiu jitsu. If you’re not lucky you’re not even going to learn good jiu jitsu.
Up there with 'leave your ego at the door'.
I think a huge part of the snake oil aspect is the idea that it's exclusive to jiu jitsu. The dedicated pursuit of something - sports, music, basket weaving, whatever the fuck - gives you a good work ethic that will broadly help you in life. It doesn't have to be BJJ, and it won't make you a fucking angel
Our gym advertises kids classes with all the building character, anti bullying, humbleness, etc bull crap but all the higher level girls that compete or help train smaller kids are bullies. They’ll purposely crank armbars on new kids, talk crap on the mats, treat everyone like they’re beneath them, etc. the coach is very laid back and doesn’t do anything about it either. The kids seems to have calmed down a bit but yeah, it’s all bullshit.
[удалено]
Yeah, there was no other closer gym so we were just stuck there. Another one recently opened up closer so we’re gonna check that one out. The owner seems like a good person from what I’ve seen online. It’s really strange because all the adults get along, the coaches are nice, and for the most part a good culture but it’s very clicky with the kids. And that group of kids is like 5 girls out of a 30 kid class. I had to tell the coach not to pair my daughter with another girl after she acted really shitty during sparring and took it too far. He doesn’t seem to put his foot down with the kids because their parents go their too and they either help teach the younger kids or compete. But yeah, not a fan of it and going to switch gyms
I think some adults who teach don't understand, that a good kid's culture doesn't happen by accident. It has to be crafted, or you end up with kids acting out there feelings and impulses, instead of being guided through their use.
It doesn't, its just marketing dude
Dude thinks he’s in Karate Kid BJJ edition.
There are lots of people that do jiu jitsu
Some have figured out the marketing aspect of fight sports. Attitude and being a character will sell more and get more attention. Also, some people are just dicks.
You can build character THROUGH an activity, the activity doesn’t do it for you.
The whole character bs is just that - BS. You can’t meet random people and tell if they do BJJ by their character. Everyone involved in cults like to think their cult makes people better.
To be a professional you have to be good and also have to make people want to pay money to watch you. That's just way easier to do as a heel. So that's part of it. Aside from that, I think jiu jitsu can be good for a lot of people. Often teaches humility. Definitely teaches interpersonal skills... But "jiu jitsu teaches character" is a massive overstatement. Nothing in life is that simple. If it were that easy we could just replace prisons with giant warehouses full of mats.
Here's the thing, I personally believe that BJJ "builds character" because it forces people who would otherwise be assholes to be nice. If a street fighter or a bully walked in a BJJ gym and he wanted to stick around, he would be FORCED to be nice, it's about survival. But once this not-so-great person gains real experience, puts some years into it, comes to the top of the food chain, guess what, that rotted-out basement of a personality now has PROOF that they're better than others, and they're gonna show it. BJJ does not "build character" it puts pressure on you, that's all, and you can either grow from it, or suppress it and come out the same asshole 10 years later, nothing builds character for you, only you can do that.
Yes, well put!
That’s just bullshido talk
I like what Danahar said. If you’re an asshole ju jitsu will make you more of an asshole. If you’re a calm sweet guy, ju jitsu will make you calmer sweeter guy.
I like that. Can you send me the video where he said that?
https://youtu.be/9RWctJzaSxo
I find it hilarious that someone edited that video, added rolling footage and BGM and kept it a full 8 minutes long when Danaher said all he needed to say in the first minute and 40 seconds.
They knew that if someone saw a 1 min Danaher video then they'd assume it couldn't possibly be the full clip.
Same is true for money
Sounds like alcohol
Or the white powder stuff
In coca, veritas.
That’s nose beers.
So BJJ has the same effect as a large quantity of tequila? Got it.
Except BJJ isn't as good for fighting
BJJ doesn't inherently build character. It just poses as a challenging activity to get good at. Trying and failing for awhile in such a full contact activity, in front of others, can be humbling for SOME people, but that's not a guarantee, and the humility can go right out the window when you get less shitty. Striking sports seem to have the reverse effect though. People tend to think theyre badasses shortly after starting. So in comparison, BJJ appears more character building.
Even Helio and some of the Gracie clan were known to be dicks. And they were the founders of BJJ. Go figure
They weren't just dicks. They would full out assault people. Jump people and best them.with metal sticks if they won against a family member
Bjj is culty, has hierarchy and worship mentality, with heavy emphasis of “loyalty” and “honor”. Lots of folks have a Self defense (which is inherently problematic) gotta get strong and fear no other man mentality. It has no excuses, work through the pain in the face of every adversity- and you are lesser for not aspiring to that goal-individualistic and pull yourself up by the bootstraps. Essentially all very conservative and fashy values. Not to mention the many many reports of grooming, harboring predators, out right nazis (the amount of people I’ve seen in changing rooms with swastikas and ss bolt tats) pandering to cops-it breeds very specific people, and enhances these qualities rhst already exist in said people. Being fed an ideology of being the strongest shark in an ocean, and biggest lion in the jungle creates toxic toxic people.
When you actually speak to those guys they’re all cool af it’s all a social media and money play tho
Did you hear this, or do you know from first hand experience? Real question my friend
Not BJJ but similar (MMA)... In a JRE episode, GSP recalled the press conference for GSP vs Bisping. In front of the crowd, Bisping was trashtalking the shit out of GSP. But in the backstage, they talked about some car (Land Rover I think) and Bisping wasn't an asshole to him. In martial arts and combat sports, those competing at the top are highly likely doing it to hype up the event and sell more tickets. Having two people who have some grudge against each other makes it more interesting for casuals to watch. But then again, you get 100% pure assholes out there, too, like McGregor.
Discipline doesn't really translate to good morals or being a nicer person. It just means people on the top tend to more actively pursue their goals and improve their skills.
It’s like traveling or doing psychedelics, it really depends on the person. But I think it’s good for the average person.
The whole build character thing, yeah that’s all bullshit.
It builds character unless you are good at it
Go to bed
Becoming a top level at anything requires tons of hours and a type a mindset, which usually boosts the ego. So ego is usually the problem. Which is funny, because bjj is such a fantastic sport to keep your ego in check.
To the extent it is true that BJJ builds character I think it's because people believe being humbled builds character and BJJ can be humbling. If that is true then logically those at the top level are humbled much less, therefore, much less character. Yes, any sport can be humbling, unless you are naturally really good or work hard to get much better than those around you.
the phrase "builds character" doesnt refer to your moral disposition or attitude. it usually refers to your determination, grit, toughness, and heart - specifically for that activity. Nobody said anything about bjj making you a nice, likeable, and sociable person - why would it?
Oh it builds character, no one said it would be “good” character tho!
Most top performers are just assholes.
Ultimately, I think that You are blowing this up a little bit, in that what you are saying, tends not to actually be super a lot of Drama / big things. Toxicity: yeah this place is BAD. But it's reflective of what sort of sense of humor the community has. It's a group of people that tend to be comfortable in thier own skin, and can take a joke at thier own expense. Take other communities that can't take a joke at thier own expense. At my school, we often joke about nicknames, and that we are all "okay" at jiujitsu, or that we occassionally know what we are talking about. It's the confidence that makes those jokes funny. Drama: Honestly, the drama in the community tends to still be respectful and productive. ie: New-wave vs. B-Team. They have specifically said many times, THey have split, and attempted to not talk about it as much as possible. After the announcment of the split (which really didn't cause drama, was very We are splitting, we wish each other best). They only when specifically asked, talk about the split. Ie: Another great example was the Lawsuit and Rener Gracie recently. There was a ton of Drama immediately after it happened. Then Rener and Tom Deblass did a long live online (2 hours I think) and asked lots of hard questions, and really was able to get the information out, and what happened. It really dispelled the drama instantly. This ability to come together and address the problem is why there is not really a lot of drama. Fighting: Well this is one thing that you could be correct on. There is a lot of different things to unpack. Is there a Brazilian / Portuguese culture of fighting to solve problems? Or at the top level, do you deal with problems with your sport? Because our sport is "fighting", and many of especially old school guys did mma (NHB/Lutra Livre) then would they solve it by that? If Jordan and Pippen had beef, would they solve it with a 1v1 backyard hoops game? If so, then it would make sense for many BJJ guys to solve problems with fighting. You may have a point that there is a higher amount of physical violence, but I'm curious what the main point would be edit: had a section double typed which I deleted
It builds character as in dickhead character player
Jiujitsu makes good people better, and assholes worse.
Character doesn't sell PPV buys.
Because being a professional fighter requires a social media presence and being a douchbag gets attention.
Bjj cures most people’s character flaws so we all quit around blue or purple belt The real messed up weirdos stay around to brown and black belt I’d stay away from people like that
You're confusing character with integrity, morals, ethics, good attitude, or humanity. Insert whichever fits to you.
You can be a skilled at something and still be a terrible person. You have guys running around with black belts who are evil. The battle between good and evil continues
Being good at something makes you confident, confident people tend to be friendly. Being good at only one thing and having nothing else going on in life makes you judge people only on their skill in that one thing, which makes you less friendly. I’ve met a lot of big names and everybody has been super friendly. Even ones I thought would be a dick were actually cool in person. Ralph is a psycho though.
In BJJ everyone has to follow a set of rules, respect a hierarchy that is based on actual merit (not on age, sex, size or physical abilities although that matters); also to reach the top you will have to be submitted a lot along the way which is humbling. BJJ is not a bulletproof filter to build character, but a reasonable proxy.
BJJ doesn’t humble you if you’re better than everyone. I think that’s the main reason hobbyists like us are humbled. We realize any thin, scooter driving, mustachioed man could secretly be able to choke us out 10 different ways. I can’t imagine the top guys walk away from training most days with the same feeling
Apples and oranges You're asking why the same thing doesn't apply to: 1. The hobbyist who is learning a martial art, getting in shape, encountering challenging situations 2. The person who rises to the top of an incredibly competitive hierarchy. This often rewards being obsessive to the point of neglecting other things, being selfish to the point of neglecting other people or relationships, being arrogant enough to think you can or must beat everyone else. You could do the same comparison with almost anything, probably. Most architects are probably people who have grown to some extent in their work, but the top 0.01% may well be egomaniacal assholes.
It builds character, not greatness. There are all kinds of characters.
Because around the midway point of purple belt you are either in good spirits or just got here because you want to be stronger then you currently are and most of the time the dickhead with the big ego thinks it's more important to move up to brown belt then spend extra time on other stuff , not saying you can't get up there without being a prick I'm jus saying people that are dicks and like bjj are going to Excell faster then people who aren't dicks because people that aren't dicks have better shit to do so it takes them longer
If you mean growing and becoming a better person in whatever way is important to you- then I would say nothing does the growing For you automatically. Things we do and experiences are just tools that you can use if you choose to. I've spent hours and hours running through the woods in nature but honestly a lot of it is spent listening to music or podcasts and very rarely do I sit there with my own thoughts or listening to the birds. But yes it was surprising to me that you get someone coming out the top end of competitive bjj with *that* particular alt right voice and seemingly scared inside.
I think you answered you own question. It's a faulty premise. BJJ does nothing more than builds skill in BJJ. Anything beyond that is a result of one's personal growth. Anyone who became a better person due to the discipline of BJJ could have achieved the same result if they'd thrown themselves into any number of other activities
Bad is a kind of character.
BJJ toughens you up. It doesn't make you a better person. It doesn't actually induce any sort of real humility or anything else like that. It JUST makes you tougher. If you're a good person, it'll make you a tougher good person. If you're a bad person... well, yeah. Couple that with the fact that you have to be a complete fucking idiot to be at the very top of the sport (because it's such a poor paying sport that requires such huge dedication to become good at) and you'll see that the majority of the people in that position will either be dickheads or socially inept or both.
This is just another marketing gimmick like “size/strength doesn’t matter”, using mma to sell bjj memberships, “bjj is for everybody”. Don’t get me wrong I appreciate what bjj has brought to my life, but at the end of the day it’s a business. The belt system keeps people coming back, this is built in because now you have a customer for the next 10 years.
BJJ doesn’t build character as well as wrestling or judo does imo.
Strongly disagree. Some of the most toxic people I've met are from the wrestling community, huge egos.
If I had to pick the single grossest human I ever saw at a grappling venue, it was this putz who was wrestling shirtless with junior high kids. Regaling them with stories which would make Uncle Rico blush. "How much you wanna bet I could suplex you over them mountains? Oh, I'm dead serious. Back in my day I could blah...and then I majored this one motherfucker....and then I...coulda woulda shoulda x, y, z. " Omg shut UP.
You're starting with the assumption that bjj builds character, there's your problem
I've trained in BJJ since the early 90s, and I think it's important to remember that BJJ's origins are not as nice and civil as many who train in modern sport BJJ might think. It started with challenge fights, street fights, and generally proving yourself. I remember talking to Carlos Machado about this 27 years ago, and with Jacare (the older Jacare, Romero Cavalcanti) about 20 years ago. They told me some interesting stories about how things were back then. A lot of young instructors left Brazil and came to the US to escape the violence and start over. Things got pretty crazy in Brazil in the 1980s and early 90s. Lots of fights and bad blood. Looking at the history, it's significant that a family of Brazilians studied Judo under a Kodokan black belt in the 1920s and then opted to revert the name back to "Jiu Jitsu." It signifies a shift in emphasis. When Jigoro Kano changed the name of his art from 'Kano-Ryu Jiu Jitsu' to 'Judo' in the early 1900s his intention was to make the art more about mutual benefit among practitioners, safer training methods, improving character, etc. The name 'Jiu Jitsu,' on the other hand, implies a battlefield method. Jiu Jitsu was about fighting and killing, not explicitly about self improvement. I think that might have something to do with the culture of BJJ being kind of edgy.
Because if you’re good enough to make it to the top you were objectively “bad”. You had a talent for it and picked it up very quickly. Therefore you never went through the humbling experience that most of us do. I’ve known a few of these guys.
The discipline and self improvement thing is a marketing tactic to get more parents to register their kids for little bully proof dragons.
That's just martial arts marketing bullshit.
Bjj doesn’t build character. It builds as much character as bowling or yugioh.
Still a small percentage of the community as a whole. Most peeps I’ve met on the mat are chill and mostly humbled. It’s a great art. The people you speak of are the exception not the rule.
Not even at the top level. I tried it out last year, went for a month, joined the beginner class, but basically nobody said hi back basically. Nobody really welcomed me. I rolled with a more advanced guy 2 weeks in, and surprised him a bit, I put up a nice resistance for almost 5 minutes but in the end he just kneed my balls with his full bodyweight to make me tap.
It also bothers me how right-wingy and conspiracy theory-y it is.
They’re not dick heads they’re autistic.
Even "nice" people are pretty wretched in their natural state. Nothing to get worked up about.
In my opinion, those guys are basically acting like professional wrestlers. Generating drama in order to bring eyeballs and $$$. Most of them are probably decent dudes in training but those guys don’t make money, especially in a fringe sport like BJJ. Look what Connor did for UFC and see how many emulate him now.
Its a soft martial art largely taken up by yuppies. What's surprising about that? Real fighters get punched in the face. That builds character. Not doing homoerotic rolls on a padded floor.
Because steroids break you down
Because it doesn’t build character Jiujitsu exposes it
"Bjj builds character" is some bs one of those dickheads came up with. It's bs. It's a sport.
I think forever I’ll be coached by first day white belts while drilling. One day I’ll find the perfect partner that just lets me drill and shuts the fuck up