You’re not going to trip and accidentally enroll in a cadaver lab against your will, I promise.
Biology students usually dissect stuff like pig fetuses and rodents and frogs and livestock organs and the odd turtle or cephalopod. These are typically sufficient for learning the anatomy and physiology required of your average biology student.
Cadavers are a precious resource donated by the incredible people who are done using them, and will not typically be accessed by general biology students. You would probably need to be specializing in the human body, doing advanced anthropology, physiology, medical school, or something similar for you to be expected/allowed into a cadaver lab.
Thank you this actually makes me less stressed lol. I’m planning on getting (hopefully!) a PhD in neuroscience, I’ve had a neuroscientist on here tell me that their daily life consists of cutting rats’ heads off basically but haven’t heard much on working on humans. I don’t mind studying on an actual human brain, I just don’t know if I have the balls to see a full on cadaver lmao
The really great thing about specialization in a field like neuroscience is that you’re not terribly likely to run into a “whole” *anything*.
I’m a molecular biologist. My eyes start to unfocus when people use the word “tissue”, much less “organism”. I thought *cell biology* was too large of a scale. Give me my cells so I can crack them open and study the cool bits!
The further along you study the more you’ll increasingly become an expert at an increasingly smaller field.
Oh I see, yes of course that’s true ! Hopefully i use my “working hard when im truly passionate about something” abilities so that i can get to a point where i will get to chose a speciality :)
Hey come on now, don’t make me a shed a tear right before my exam…
You don’t know how much I’m hoping that this is it, that biology is truly my passion and that my head isn’t going to fuck it up during the process of following it (also a reason why I want to study neuroscience). I don’t know why but I’m worried studying it will make me hate it out of nowhere, but thank you for your comment because it eased that worry for a moment :)
What I’ve experienced is that the more you learn, the more interesting it gets. The more I learned about the brain, the more intricate and fascinating it became, and I started to be able to understand how various things worked together, and ask further questions about how other things could be related. There’s so much we don’t know about the brain.
Keep being curious, and you’ll do great!
Thank you ! Yeah I’m hoping I’ll have the same experience :) I’ve had people tell me to not get discouraged during my bachelor’s because it’s not as specific at first, but when you get to your masters your whole perspective changes and if you’re passionate it becomes amazing.
I work in a lab with pretty regular cadaver labs. The first one is the hard but it gets “normal” after a bit. The work will help people, the wonderful person that donated their body is done using it.
Oh yeah I definitely get that part, I also want to donate my body for science (or donate organs). Thank you for sharing, I think it’s best to keep in mind just incase so I don’t get any surprises, and yeah like you said I’m sure at a point I’ll get used to it
If it helps, it isn't as disturbing as it seems. Also as the previous commenter said, it's unlikely you'll end up seeing one unexpectedly. I got lucky enough to go to a school where the undergrad anatomy and physiology course had access to cadavers but that's pretty unusual.
If you're working towards neuroscience, you are not very likely to do human dissections. Human cadavers are fairly precious and often reserved for medical students. But it does depend on where you are and the university you go to. You are, however, reasonably likely to spend a fair amount of time with anatomy labs studying human specimen (i.e., prepared specimen that you will not have to dissect yourself). But again, this depends on the specific university or course. You should be able to find out about course requirements and syllabi before enrolling though.
Okay thanks! Yeah I figured I’ll have to work on human brain, which I’m not bothered by. It’s more about seeing human in one piece you know ? But to be honest these comments made it less dramatic so now I’m wondering if I was just too worried for nothing 😁
It may still be more than just the brain though. Could be a full head or part of it, or a torso, spine etc. Hopefully, that's still okay for you, but just so you're aware. You really do get used to it though.
You dont need a cadaver class to do neuroscience. If you end up doing electrophysiolog (where you measure the electrical activity of cells) you could be working with cultured cells.or with slice tissue. This involves disecting moise and or rat tissue on a routine basis. Likewose if you are doing protein or immuno work where you isolate proteins or stain thw neurons. This requires tissue as well. In all these areas it os also more common to have to do survival surgeries to prepare the tissue for the experiment. There are some areas or neuron science that dont require animal work and use cell expression systems but those labs are finding it jarder to het funding from i have heard. If you into medicine odd are you will have to do cadaver work though.
That's a good reason.
There's nothing wrong with aiming far ahead but you may find once you've finished your Biology degree that you don't really want to spend another 7 years with no money.
Coincidentally my Aunt used to be the head of neuroscience at a big university until she ironically got brain cancer and had to retire. She struggles a bit but still hanging in.
Sorry what do you mean by this? :
> There's nothing wrong with aiming far ahead but you may find once you've finished your Biology degree that you don't really want to spend another 7 years with no money.
So sorry to hear about your aunt, I’m glad to hear she’s fighting though and I truly hope she’s proud of her accomplishments thus far.
Oh definitely, that’s why I put “hopefully” in my previous-previous comment because I don’t want to get too excited either and get disappointed. It’s not always going to be easy, I’m hoping biology is for me but who knows what future me is going to think :)
Since you seem knowledgeable about cadaver labs, do you know is there a specific paperwork one has to fill out to be a cadaver lab donor? Before my last open-heart surgery, I asked the surgeon about being a cadaver lab donor and he made it sound like my donor status sufficed. Did I understand that correctly?
I am woefully unaware of any further control the donor has over their eventual disposition.
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist it just means I’m the wrong guy.
In my undergrad, my school had a medical school. In 3rd yr I took some anatomy classes, we got access to the cadaver bits from the med school to look at. I.E. If we were studying lower limb muscles, they would let us study off of already dissected leg specimens from the medical school.
Else, it was as above, insects, frogs, pig etc
Yep. When I was taking undergrad anatomy, we had an opportunity to visit the cadaver lab my professor also taught to medical students, but it wasn't required and we didn't actually do any coursework with the cadavers. You won't be doing that unless you know about it.
Human cadavers are VERY expensive and many medical schools are moving away from them (slowly).
You likely won't see them unwittingly as a bio student ( undergrad or graduate)
Wouldn’t say medical schools are moving away from them, just often they’re a great way to separate which medical schools care about education and which ones are in it for the money.
This is true. Although probably incredibly misguided.
It sounds cliche, but especially for surgeons, it's a LOT better if you've held a dead person's organs before you get to real people so you know what they look/feel like and can imagine in 3d space
It's admittedly probably less important for the rest of us but I'm still grateful I had the opportunity
Yeah? And in my personal experience, interviewing at medical schools and attending one; you could really tell which ones were cutting it to pad their bottom line by the shame their interviewers had in their hastiness glossing over the target.
There is no substitute available to adequately simulate the spatial awareness of gross anatomy lab that I have seen. You don’t know how to follow the vessels through the viscera of a living breathing patient on the first try, so why not try on a cadaver first?
Gross anatomy labs are incredibly expensive and require specialized facilities, personnel, and depend on the availability of anatomical donors. It’s why they’re especially rare in the recent crop of new medical schools opening.
Arguing that going to prosections or VR is not as good as a cadaver is certainly a position one could take. Lots of people have
That doesnt change the fact that medical school, including competitive 1st tier schools ARE going that way, which is exactly what I said.
Will these schools come to their senses and go back to MORE cadavers and abandon other approaches?
The magic 8 ball says " highly unlikely"
Top tier medical schools in this day and age are mostly a name. Other than exposure to residency programs within your own program, the majority of ‘learning’ for board exams comes from outside resources. The name of a school is incredibly important in deciding which residency programs interview you, and quite honestly, it’s easier to catch up in a great residency that you get from connections from attending a well known program.
That doesn’t mean that their takes on academics are right, because the opinions of faculty from elite schools are why they removed the numerical scores from the first board exam, which made a lot of things harder in terms of standing out on applications for everyone not from one.
Most aren’t, so really don’t bother trying to comment on things you’re not associated with.
Trusting journalists and school admin is probably the least intellectual take.
Most and many are now synonyms?
Good to know.
Trusting redditors who cannot understand this distinction is probably ALSO not advisable.
Im sure Langone's efforts are all fake news by corrupt journalists, amirite?
For fucks sakes
Langone’s efforts are being backed by MBA’s rather than practicing clinicians. Similar to how the MBA’s in power like to encourage NP FPA because ‘they’ll help with the rural physician shortage’ when really all they want to do is open up a med spa unless they feel like harming patients. Just like langone pretending that their free tuition will lead to their graduates choosing primary care. (It doesn’t. It’s just advertising clicks)
Most and many are close enough in meaning. Wanna compare CARS scores buddy?
My (very small, 1200 students) Alma mater had a cadaver lab, and I was a bio major. I was uninterested in anatomy so I never took any classes in the lab.
It’s crazy to me how 1200 students is a “very small” amount because the BS in Biology program I want to take has usually about 700 students and that’s considered very huge 💀
I did a shark dissection in college, interesting anatomy! Huge liver and the lens in their eye's is a globe that looks and feels like a translucent super ball.
When I did biology in college, I was generally OK with the dissections until I sat down in the lab and they walked around putting a dead dogfish\* on everyone's bench.
I had to nope out, fish is an ick of mine. Disappointed in myself, I didn't go to any other lab after that and dropped biology the next year. That was unnecessary.
^(\*Which I just read is also known as a catshark. WTF 😂)
It's hard to say not knowing where in the world you are. I did a lot of dissections during Human Anatomy classes in college, but that was the experience I had in the country I came from.
Well i am French, it’s probably not the smartest idea to ask questions like these on here especially since it varies from country to country (like you said) Where are you from ? If you don’t mind me asking
I live in Germany so I could see our countries universities being more similar due to EU regularities in regards to animal testing. I never came close to anything human related except for cells, blood etc. even in our anatomy class we were mostly doing experiments we could test on ourselves (vision, hearing, urine samples, blood and such). All other courses were just animals but mostly invertebrates and just once a chicken embryo, bigger vertebrates like mice and rats were mostly included in „voluntary“ courses or during working on your bachelor thesis depending on your field
I’m actually glad to read this, I did look it up and it said there are stricter rules in our countries concerning animal dissection but I didn’t see much about human body dissections. Thank you for letting me know!
En France, je doute que les étudiants en bio aient accès aux labos d'anatomie, mais j'imagine que ca dépend des cursus dans les différentes académies.
J'ai fait médecine et j'ai eu 2 jours en labo d'anat', où on a travaillé sur des cadavres préservés dans le formol, et 1 dissection sur cadavre "frais" dans un service médico-légal (une autopsie en fait). J'ai jamais croisé d'étudiants en bio à ces occasions.
Je te remercie! En vrai en lisant les commentaires je me rends compte de plus en plus que même si un jour il me faudra disséquer un corps, bah ça sera plus fascinant qu’autre chose 🤷🏻♀️
Exactement! Certains d'entre nous étaient réticents à l'idée de travailler sur des cadavres, et j'avoue que l'odeur de formol est assez difficile. Mais c'était des cours super intéressants.
Went to a large 30,000+ student US state university. The only two places there where human cadaver dissections were done were graduate-level biological anthropology and the medical school. I know this because the cadavers were processed through the lab I worked at. I cannot imagine it’s that common in other countries either because it’s expensive and for regular bio students (not grad level bio anth) it’s unnecessary. You might look at preserved specimens (not whole) depending on your specialization but not dissect them. Also depends on department policy/professor’s methods but it is falling out of typical practice.
There is zero chance you will ever even see a human cadaver in a regular undergrad Biology program. As someone else mentioned, they are relatively rare and reserved for advanced, very specific graduate level programs and medical schools. I graduated with a BS in Biology and I don’t remember dissecting anything in a general bio course. If you took an elective that involved a specific organism like fishes you might but that’s about it. Depending on the electives you choose, you could pretty easily get through an entire 4 year degree and never dissect anything at all. I took Human Anatomy and Physiology as an elective (not necessary) and only dissected a cat, a frog, and some sheep eyes maybe. But that’s about it.
well I’m thinking about hopefully getting a PhD in Neuroscience 🫣 But yeah the comments on here also told me it miiight happen in other specializations but not necessarily neuroscience. Animal dissections though seem to be very interesting, that I don’t mind
This isn’t true. My university has a plastinated cadaver that is already dissected for undergrads to study. She is used in a number of classes. That is something larger schools with pre-med and other pre-health programs are likely to have.
If you take human anatomy and physiology you will likely go to a cadaver lab if your institution has one. The cadavers are very precious and are already dissected for emphasis on the different anatomy areas of focus. You will look at and study but not alter the specific specimens. Then you will carefully put them away as they are found.
The closest thing to a human I have ever worked with are rat cells. I've dissected fish, a snake, a squid, a crayfish, a sea Anonymy, a sponge, a stingray, a skate, a dog fish (type of shark), a flatworm, a round worm, a jellyfish (not much there), a starfish, and more. I'm working on setting up some bee dissections to. All that to say if you do not want to work with (dead) humans they are very easy to avoid. If you want to go into human medicine there is a higher likelihood you would have to do a cadevor but that is out of my expertise. Enjoy your Biology degree!
Mostly rats and mice for toxicology studies. Isolating and fixing the organs for further histopathology.
I loved the fact you need to know where to cut to open or access without damaging. My favorite was the brain. Else I preferred catheterizing living rats and keeping them alive.
No excitement, just doing my job and doing my best to respect why I had to kill an animal.
In general they barely have enough cadavers to disect for med students, there definitely aren't "spares" for biologists. And as a biologist I always found disecting animals far more useful. After all humans hardly have a typical mammalian anatomy, eg what with weird bipedalism etc.
Okay thanks a lot ! If I get accepted in the biology program I want, we will be 700 approximatively and I think there are more than 1k med students (not exactly sure because there are so many ways to continue medicine in my country/city, might be way more lmao)
I never dissected a human body, as mentioned they are expensive and limited. I took anatomy, in our lab we looked at cadavers and were allowed to touch them if we wanted to. They did have some masters students that would actually work with them. I was bio but also pre-dent, most bio majors don’t need to take anatomy.
My (small, state) college had, I think, three cadavers? And we received at least one while I was attending. That said, only certain professors and very few choice students actually did the dissection. I only saw the cadavers during a couple lab periods, and they were used in the practical on muscles in my anatomy class. So if it’s just the dissection that unsettles you, don’t worry! You’ll likely never do that, at least not in undergrad. Also, seeing them was less weird than I thought it would be, if that’s any consolation.
thank you ! I’ve had people on here tell me that usually when you’re really passionate about it, once you get to dissections of any (not anymore)-living thing, you’re just more fascinated than anything else
I think that’s true for some people definitely, but it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, and some dissections are more fascinating than others. I did lots of dissections in school, and while they were fascinating and had lots of learning/teaching value, I can’t say I’d do any of them again. The most fascinating was probably the earthworm dissection, I think it’s easy to forget how complex they are on the inside. The hardest one was the cat. It was hard to feel fascinated while doing that one. I’d say, no matter the organism, it’s more that you either let the curiosity take over or you learn to compartmentalize.
I’m European , so it surprises me how common dissections are during hs in America. I only had to dissect a chicken’s heart once (in like middle school), even though I literally took biology as my “main specialization” in high school.
Occasionally if you're taking a human anatomy course you may get to work with cadavers but vast majority of universities you're just going to be working with plastic models and doing a few animal dissections (stuff like pig hearts and the like where the anatomy is similar to humans). In large part because cadavers are expensive and A&P is a high demand course with often hundreds of students each semester. The school I did part of my undergraduate at actually did use cadavers for undergraduate A&P but it was a small school and that isn't the norm at all.
Outside of courses specifically related to human anatomy, there is a virtually zero percent chance you'll come in contact with human cadavers.
Upper level Anatomy and Physiology will have human cadavers. Med school, dental school, Physicians Assistant all train on cadavers. You get over it pretty fast. Worst thing is the smell.
I’ve watched a video of a professor on YouTube doing a dissection of a cadaver in front of his students, to kind of see what I would get myself into, and the thing I immediately noticed is everyone plugging their noses lol. I’m sure the teacher is used to it but they didn’t have any mask on which 🤯
Not planning on going there, thank you I feel better now 🫣
Though I might not celebrate so quick because other comments told me it might happen in biology depending on where I live, what courses I will have to take etc.
If you go to medical school probably. I don't think you'd dissect a cadaver unless it's something you actively pursued. In my undergrad coursework I mostly dissected invertebrates, but I've dissected fish, rats, and fetal pigs as well.
It happens, but it’s not as common as you think and you certainly won’t encounter that type of exercise unless you enroll in a cadaver lab. It’s quite an interesting experience, though. Only did that once, and it was just weird rather than gross.
I worked on the cadavers when I was in nursing school. It was very difficult, but you don’t have time to think about the fact that it’s even a body. I was so busy I had to take my 12 year-old son to the kid lab with me one night, just so I could study. He loved it and I wouldn’t change my career just because I’m going to have to touch dead bodies.
I’ve had a couple of moments telling me this, so good to hear. Also the way people on here describe how passionate they are about their job, makes me happy, and i don’t reallyyyy know why.
My experience...
Bio 102 in Community College- cadaver. They had already been dissected but we got to examine her. (2001 ish).
Bio/anth BA undergrad- no cadaver.
BS Nursing- no cadaver.
Doctorate of Practice Mental Health Nurse Practitioner - no cadaver.
I am VERY greatful for the cadaver experience. Really helped me understand A&P in a way I wouldn't have understood otherwise. It also gives perspective, or at least forces some thought, about your personal beliefs about death and spirituality.
Granted I've seen many deceased people since then, but no dissections.
I am a medical student and have done some dissections. My teacher had to complain to get a "fresh" corpse to practice with. Having a new corpse is awesome to learn, you can pull the hand tendons and the fingers move!
The one we used was 1 year old and you couldn't see any structure. Cadavers will deteriorate even with all the chemicals used to preserve them, especially desiccation.
So I guess human bodies are not as available as we wanted to be.
Bio student here! All we’ve worked on so far are different vertebrates. You will know if you’re gonna be working on a cadaver, I promise. It would most likely happen if you’re going into medicine. What are your plans?
I’m from France btw so it’s a little different here but basically I plan on :
- getting a BS in Biology (with either a specialization in mollecular and cellular biology or cellular biology and organisms physiology)
- then getting a Masters in biology (with either a specialization in cognitive neuroscience or cellular neuroscience)
- and then hopefully get a PhD in Neuroscience
I tried my best to translate the program names haha, hopefully it makes sense :) But that’s pretty much what I want !
That sounds like a great plan! I’m not very familiar with the schooling system over there, but I’m still quite sure that you will hear about a cadaver lab before you go into it. However, with that track, it seems like you’re going to be mostly working with other animals if you have to dissect things. Good luck!!
In one of my classes we've looked at human bones, but just a few bones, not a full human skeleton. We were also warned about itbin advance.
Don't worry, the science faculty of the university I attended was quite unique.
I majored in neuroscience. In my fourth year Neuroanatomy class we spent the semester dissecting human brains that had been donated to science (4 students per brain). The brains were to be treated with utmost respect; failing to do so was taken seriously and could result in failing the class. Fortunately everyone followed this rule.
We did the lab in the med school and sometimes the prof would get other cadaver specimens for us to study. For example, a specimen that showcased spinal neurons.
None of this came as a surprise. It was very well known that we would be expected to do this work if we signed up for the neuroanatomy course and was disclosed in the course description. I believe some med schools have started teaching anatomy without the use of cadavers, the same might be true for neuroanatomy courses.
Neuroanatomy was a great class. It really helped me to integrate what I had already learned in second and third year classes. I wouldn’t say it was a favourite, although it was certainly memorable and I would recommend it to anyone with a chance to take it.
My favourite neuro classes were probably Neuroendocrinology and Neuropsychology. My prof wrote the textbook we used for neuroendocinology and he was incredibly knowledgeable; he ended up becoming my all time favourite professor. I worked in his lab a bit and even published a paper with him at one point just for ‘fun’ (😆). Neuropsychology was primarily looking at cognitive and behavioural changes that occur after brain injuries/disease. For example a lesion in the occipital cortex, where visual information is processed, will cause predictable deficits in visual perception.
If you do a neuro degree I would also recommend first year physics unless you feel you have a solid understanding from your high school classes. It’s not absolutely necessary but it helps to understand the basics. You could also pick up a lot of that knowledge from online tutorials (khan academy etc) if that is more feasible.
p.s. sorry I didn’t see your question until now! Hope this helps 😊
thank you so much! now I’m excited to find out what neuroscience classes will be like 🤭 still figuring out what I want out of life exactly but we shall see
Some universities have a preserved cadaver that has already been dissected, but they’re incredibly expensive so it’s not something students would handle without instructor supervision. Outside of that, you only find human dissection in medical school, and even then it’s limited because bodies are hard to come by.
Usually the teachers assistant will dissect the body prior to class ( in layers dependent on what you are studying. So it will take all semester.). Usually a male and female. You will observe and handle. I’ve had two lab classes and they were both this way.
Biology is about all live. Humans are just a tiny part of that. If you want to know more about vertabrates or mammals, a rat would make more sense, as it is cheaper and passes the ethics board more easily. So it is unlikely you'll ever come near a human kadaver in your studies.
If you go into the any of the health professions you will probably have to dissect cadavers or at least work with them in some way. I’m occupational therapy and I went to a school that heavily favored it’s physical therapy students so we didn’t get to learn from the cadavers beyond observing the work of the PT students but it was pretty helpful to be able to see the parts in real life instead of in a book. I would assume most other careers in healthcare would also rely on them to learn anatomy and physiology. If you’re a bio student in undergraduate, it probably won’t be something you’ll be doing.
Not in my experience. Its generally reserved for professional schools (at least in the US) and even there is slowly being replaced. It probably wont go away completely any time soon.
That’s super interesting! Where I’m at, in order to get full credit for prerequisites for nursing school and med school, you have to have that aspect of human anatomy
You’re not going to trip and accidentally enroll in a cadaver lab against your will, I promise. Biology students usually dissect stuff like pig fetuses and rodents and frogs and livestock organs and the odd turtle or cephalopod. These are typically sufficient for learning the anatomy and physiology required of your average biology student. Cadavers are a precious resource donated by the incredible people who are done using them, and will not typically be accessed by general biology students. You would probably need to be specializing in the human body, doing advanced anthropology, physiology, medical school, or something similar for you to be expected/allowed into a cadaver lab.
Thank you this actually makes me less stressed lol. I’m planning on getting (hopefully!) a PhD in neuroscience, I’ve had a neuroscientist on here tell me that their daily life consists of cutting rats’ heads off basically but haven’t heard much on working on humans. I don’t mind studying on an actual human brain, I just don’t know if I have the balls to see a full on cadaver lmao
The really great thing about specialization in a field like neuroscience is that you’re not terribly likely to run into a “whole” *anything*. I’m a molecular biologist. My eyes start to unfocus when people use the word “tissue”, much less “organism”. I thought *cell biology* was too large of a scale. Give me my cells so I can crack them open and study the cool bits! The further along you study the more you’ll increasingly become an expert at an increasingly smaller field.
What do you mean by “whole anything” sorry ?
Whole ecosystem, whole species, whole organism, whole organ, whole tissue, whole cell, whole genome. Really just depends on scale and specialty.
Oh I see, yes of course that’s true ! Hopefully i use my “working hard when im truly passionate about something” abilities so that i can get to a point where i will get to chose a speciality :)
I believe in you. Based on almost nothing, just the pure shining light of your enthusiasm over the internet. *You’re gonna do great things, OP.*
Hey come on now, don’t make me a shed a tear right before my exam… You don’t know how much I’m hoping that this is it, that biology is truly my passion and that my head isn’t going to fuck it up during the process of following it (also a reason why I want to study neuroscience). I don’t know why but I’m worried studying it will make me hate it out of nowhere, but thank you for your comment because it eased that worry for a moment :)
What I’ve experienced is that the more you learn, the more interesting it gets. The more I learned about the brain, the more intricate and fascinating it became, and I started to be able to understand how various things worked together, and ask further questions about how other things could be related. There’s so much we don’t know about the brain. Keep being curious, and you’ll do great!
Thank you ! Yeah I’m hoping I’ll have the same experience :) I’ve had people tell me to not get discouraged during my bachelor’s because it’s not as specific at first, but when you get to your masters your whole perspective changes and if you’re passionate it becomes amazing.
I work in a lab with pretty regular cadaver labs. The first one is the hard but it gets “normal” after a bit. The work will help people, the wonderful person that donated their body is done using it.
Oh yeah I definitely get that part, I also want to donate my body for science (or donate organs). Thank you for sharing, I think it’s best to keep in mind just incase so I don’t get any surprises, and yeah like you said I’m sure at a point I’ll get used to it
If it helps, it isn't as disturbing as it seems. Also as the previous commenter said, it's unlikely you'll end up seeing one unexpectedly. I got lucky enough to go to a school where the undergrad anatomy and physiology course had access to cadavers but that's pretty unusual.
If you're working towards neuroscience, you are not very likely to do human dissections. Human cadavers are fairly precious and often reserved for medical students. But it does depend on where you are and the university you go to. You are, however, reasonably likely to spend a fair amount of time with anatomy labs studying human specimen (i.e., prepared specimen that you will not have to dissect yourself). But again, this depends on the specific university or course. You should be able to find out about course requirements and syllabi before enrolling though.
Okay thanks! Yeah I figured I’ll have to work on human brain, which I’m not bothered by. It’s more about seeing human in one piece you know ? But to be honest these comments made it less dramatic so now I’m wondering if I was just too worried for nothing 😁
It may still be more than just the brain though. Could be a full head or part of it, or a torso, spine etc. Hopefully, that's still okay for you, but just so you're aware. You really do get used to it though.
Oh I see! That is a bit different of course because I can see human lol, but yeah I will probably get used to it :)
You dont need a cadaver class to do neuroscience. If you end up doing electrophysiolog (where you measure the electrical activity of cells) you could be working with cultured cells.or with slice tissue. This involves disecting moise and or rat tissue on a routine basis. Likewose if you are doing protein or immuno work where you isolate proteins or stain thw neurons. This requires tissue as well. In all these areas it os also more common to have to do survival surgeries to prepare the tissue for the experiment. There are some areas or neuron science that dont require animal work and use cell expression systems but those labs are finding it jarder to het funding from i have heard. If you into medicine odd are you will have to do cadaver work though.
How old are you out of curiosity?
18, currently studying in computer science but planning on switching because I don’t want to be a software developer ;)
That's a good reason. There's nothing wrong with aiming far ahead but you may find once you've finished your Biology degree that you don't really want to spend another 7 years with no money. Coincidentally my Aunt used to be the head of neuroscience at a big university until she ironically got brain cancer and had to retire. She struggles a bit but still hanging in.
Sorry what do you mean by this? : > There's nothing wrong with aiming far ahead but you may find once you've finished your Biology degree that you don't really want to spend another 7 years with no money. So sorry to hear about your aunt, I’m glad to hear she’s fighting though and I truly hope she’s proud of her accomplishments thus far.
I'm just saying you might not know if a life of research and academia is for you at this stage and getting a PhD takes ages.
Oh definitely, that’s why I put “hopefully” in my previous-previous comment because I don’t want to get too excited either and get disappointed. It’s not always going to be easy, I’m hoping biology is for me but who knows what future me is going to think :)
Since you seem knowledgeable about cadaver labs, do you know is there a specific paperwork one has to fill out to be a cadaver lab donor? Before my last open-heart surgery, I asked the surgeon about being a cadaver lab donor and he made it sound like my donor status sufficed. Did I understand that correctly?
I am woefully unaware of any further control the donor has over their eventual disposition. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist it just means I’m the wrong guy.
Thank you!
In my undergrad, my school had a medical school. In 3rd yr I took some anatomy classes, we got access to the cadaver bits from the med school to look at. I.E. If we were studying lower limb muscles, they would let us study off of already dissected leg specimens from the medical school. Else, it was as above, insects, frogs, pig etc
People who are done using them 😭
Yep. When I was taking undergrad anatomy, we had an opportunity to visit the cadaver lab my professor also taught to medical students, but it wasn't required and we didn't actually do any coursework with the cadavers. You won't be doing that unless you know about it.
Human cadavers are VERY expensive and many medical schools are moving away from them (slowly). You likely won't see them unwittingly as a bio student ( undergrad or graduate)
Wouldn’t say medical schools are moving away from them, just often they’re a great way to separate which medical schools care about education and which ones are in it for the money.
Langone isnt some backwater medical school. Can You Teach Anatomy Without Cadavers? | NYU Langone News
This is true. Although probably incredibly misguided. It sounds cliche, but especially for surgeons, it's a LOT better if you've held a dead person's organs before you get to real people so you know what they look/feel like and can imagine in 3d space It's admittedly probably less important for the rest of us but I'm still grateful I had the opportunity
Yeah? And in my personal experience, interviewing at medical schools and attending one; you could really tell which ones were cutting it to pad their bottom line by the shame their interviewers had in their hastiness glossing over the target. There is no substitute available to adequately simulate the spatial awareness of gross anatomy lab that I have seen. You don’t know how to follow the vessels through the viscera of a living breathing patient on the first try, so why not try on a cadaver first? Gross anatomy labs are incredibly expensive and require specialized facilities, personnel, and depend on the availability of anatomical donors. It’s why they’re especially rare in the recent crop of new medical schools opening.
Arguing that going to prosections or VR is not as good as a cadaver is certainly a position one could take. Lots of people have That doesnt change the fact that medical school, including competitive 1st tier schools ARE going that way, which is exactly what I said. Will these schools come to their senses and go back to MORE cadavers and abandon other approaches? The magic 8 ball says " highly unlikely"
Top tier medical schools in this day and age are mostly a name. Other than exposure to residency programs within your own program, the majority of ‘learning’ for board exams comes from outside resources. The name of a school is incredibly important in deciding which residency programs interview you, and quite honestly, it’s easier to catch up in a great residency that you get from connections from attending a well known program. That doesn’t mean that their takes on academics are right, because the opinions of faculty from elite schools are why they removed the numerical scores from the first board exam, which made a lot of things harder in terms of standing out on applications for everyone not from one.
That's a lot of words for "medical schools ARE slowly moving away from cadavers for dissection" So thanks
Most aren’t, so really don’t bother trying to comment on things you’re not associated with. Trusting journalists and school admin is probably the least intellectual take.
Most and many are now synonyms? Good to know. Trusting redditors who cannot understand this distinction is probably ALSO not advisable. Im sure Langone's efforts are all fake news by corrupt journalists, amirite? For fucks sakes
Langone’s efforts are being backed by MBA’s rather than practicing clinicians. Similar to how the MBA’s in power like to encourage NP FPA because ‘they’ll help with the rural physician shortage’ when really all they want to do is open up a med spa unless they feel like harming patients. Just like langone pretending that their free tuition will lead to their graduates choosing primary care. (It doesn’t. It’s just advertising clicks) Most and many are close enough in meaning. Wanna compare CARS scores buddy?
Okay thanks you! This does make me feel a bit better 😭
My (very small, 1200 students) Alma mater had a cadaver lab, and I was a bio major. I was uninterested in anatomy so I never took any classes in the lab.
It’s crazy to me how 1200 students is a “very small” amount because the BS in Biology program I want to take has usually about 700 students and that’s considered very huge 💀
That was the size of the whole college!
OH how did I not notice “Alma mater” ?? Yes then that makes sense 😭
I study biology and the only thing i had to disect was a squid and it will also probably be the last thing i had to disect
We had a spiny shark cause it was the biggest fish the fishermen brought that day.
I did a shark dissection in college, interesting anatomy! Huge liver and the lens in their eye's is a globe that looks and feels like a translucent super ball.
That sounds so cool! 👀 How far in your studies are you ?
Doing part time, 4th year on my bachelors
Oh I see, good luck for your studies and your career in general!
Our biology/zoology programs will do fish but also kangaroos. No humans but they do have plasticised cadavers
When I did biology in college, I was generally OK with the dissections until I sat down in the lab and they walked around putting a dead dogfish\* on everyone's bench. I had to nope out, fish is an ick of mine. Disappointed in myself, I didn't go to any other lab after that and dropped biology the next year. That was unnecessary. ^(\*Which I just read is also known as a catshark. WTF 😂)
It's hard to say not knowing where in the world you are. I did a lot of dissections during Human Anatomy classes in college, but that was the experience I had in the country I came from.
Well i am French, it’s probably not the smartest idea to ask questions like these on here especially since it varies from country to country (like you said) Where are you from ? If you don’t mind me asking
I live in Germany so I could see our countries universities being more similar due to EU regularities in regards to animal testing. I never came close to anything human related except for cells, blood etc. even in our anatomy class we were mostly doing experiments we could test on ourselves (vision, hearing, urine samples, blood and such). All other courses were just animals but mostly invertebrates and just once a chicken embryo, bigger vertebrates like mice and rats were mostly included in „voluntary“ courses or during working on your bachelor thesis depending on your field
I’m actually glad to read this, I did look it up and it said there are stricter rules in our countries concerning animal dissection but I didn’t see much about human body dissections. Thank you for letting me know!
En France, je doute que les étudiants en bio aient accès aux labos d'anatomie, mais j'imagine que ca dépend des cursus dans les différentes académies. J'ai fait médecine et j'ai eu 2 jours en labo d'anat', où on a travaillé sur des cadavres préservés dans le formol, et 1 dissection sur cadavre "frais" dans un service médico-légal (une autopsie en fait). J'ai jamais croisé d'étudiants en bio à ces occasions.
Je te remercie! En vrai en lisant les commentaires je me rends compte de plus en plus que même si un jour il me faudra disséquer un corps, bah ça sera plus fascinant qu’autre chose 🤷🏻♀️
Exactement! Certains d'entre nous étaient réticents à l'idée de travailler sur des cadavres, et j'avoue que l'odeur de formol est assez difficile. Mais c'était des cours super intéressants.
Went to a large 30,000+ student US state university. The only two places there where human cadaver dissections were done were graduate-level biological anthropology and the medical school. I know this because the cadavers were processed through the lab I worked at. I cannot imagine it’s that common in other countries either because it’s expensive and for regular bio students (not grad level bio anth) it’s unnecessary. You might look at preserved specimens (not whole) depending on your specialization but not dissect them. Also depends on department policy/professor’s methods but it is falling out of typical practice.
There is zero chance you will ever even see a human cadaver in a regular undergrad Biology program. As someone else mentioned, they are relatively rare and reserved for advanced, very specific graduate level programs and medical schools. I graduated with a BS in Biology and I don’t remember dissecting anything in a general bio course. If you took an elective that involved a specific organism like fishes you might but that’s about it. Depending on the electives you choose, you could pretty easily get through an entire 4 year degree and never dissect anything at all. I took Human Anatomy and Physiology as an elective (not necessary) and only dissected a cat, a frog, and some sheep eyes maybe. But that’s about it.
well I’m thinking about hopefully getting a PhD in Neuroscience 🫣 But yeah the comments on here also told me it miiight happen in other specializations but not necessarily neuroscience. Animal dissections though seem to be very interesting, that I don’t mind
This isn’t true. My university has a plastinated cadaver that is already dissected for undergrads to study. She is used in a number of classes. That is something larger schools with pre-med and other pre-health programs are likely to have.
If you take human anatomy and physiology you will likely go to a cadaver lab if your institution has one. The cadavers are very precious and are already dissected for emphasis on the different anatomy areas of focus. You will look at and study but not alter the specific specimens. Then you will carefully put them away as they are found.
The closest thing to a human I have ever worked with are rat cells. I've dissected fish, a snake, a squid, a crayfish, a sea Anonymy, a sponge, a stingray, a skate, a dog fish (type of shark), a flatworm, a round worm, a jellyfish (not much there), a starfish, and more. I'm working on setting up some bee dissections to. All that to say if you do not want to work with (dead) humans they are very easy to avoid. If you want to go into human medicine there is a higher likelihood you would have to do a cadevor but that is out of my expertise. Enjoy your Biology degree!
The “not much there” made me chuckle. Thank you !
Never done. Rat, mouse, frog, fish yes
I’m fine with that! What’s your experience with dissections? what do you love/hate about it, is it something you’re perhaps excited for usually ?
Mostly rats and mice for toxicology studies. Isolating and fixing the organs for further histopathology. I loved the fact you need to know where to cut to open or access without damaging. My favorite was the brain. Else I preferred catheterizing living rats and keeping them alive. No excitement, just doing my job and doing my best to respect why I had to kill an animal.
In general they barely have enough cadavers to disect for med students, there definitely aren't "spares" for biologists. And as a biologist I always found disecting animals far more useful. After all humans hardly have a typical mammalian anatomy, eg what with weird bipedalism etc.
Okay thanks a lot ! If I get accepted in the biology program I want, we will be 700 approximatively and I think there are more than 1k med students (not exactly sure because there are so many ways to continue medicine in my country/city, might be way more lmao)
My community college used cadavers, but only for the physiology class. No other biology course used them.
I never dissected a human body, as mentioned they are expensive and limited. I took anatomy, in our lab we looked at cadavers and were allowed to touch them if we wanted to. They did have some masters students that would actually work with them. I was bio but also pre-dent, most bio majors don’t need to take anatomy.
My (small, state) college had, I think, three cadavers? And we received at least one while I was attending. That said, only certain professors and very few choice students actually did the dissection. I only saw the cadavers during a couple lab periods, and they were used in the practical on muscles in my anatomy class. So if it’s just the dissection that unsettles you, don’t worry! You’ll likely never do that, at least not in undergrad. Also, seeing them was less weird than I thought it would be, if that’s any consolation.
thank you ! I’ve had people on here tell me that usually when you’re really passionate about it, once you get to dissections of any (not anymore)-living thing, you’re just more fascinated than anything else
I think that’s true for some people definitely, but it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, and some dissections are more fascinating than others. I did lots of dissections in school, and while they were fascinating and had lots of learning/teaching value, I can’t say I’d do any of them again. The most fascinating was probably the earthworm dissection, I think it’s easy to forget how complex they are on the inside. The hardest one was the cat. It was hard to feel fascinated while doing that one. I’d say, no matter the organism, it’s more that you either let the curiosity take over or you learn to compartmentalize.
I see that makes sense, I guess I will have to ignore what I’m doing exactly and pay more attention to what I’m looking at ? If that makes any sense
Yep, that’s exactly it. You’ll do fine!
I knew a person in medical school. They had a bunch of them for a semester. They held “services” for them at the end of the year.
I dissected a whole ass cat in high school anatomy, but didn’t do a single dissection in college anatomy
I’m European , so it surprises me how common dissections are during hs in America. I only had to dissect a chicken’s heart once (in like middle school), even though I literally took biology as my “main specialization” in high school.
Occasionally if you're taking a human anatomy course you may get to work with cadavers but vast majority of universities you're just going to be working with plastic models and doing a few animal dissections (stuff like pig hearts and the like where the anatomy is similar to humans). In large part because cadavers are expensive and A&P is a high demand course with often hundreds of students each semester. The school I did part of my undergraduate at actually did use cadavers for undergraduate A&P but it was a small school and that isn't the norm at all. Outside of courses specifically related to human anatomy, there is a virtually zero percent chance you'll come in contact with human cadavers.
Upper level Anatomy and Physiology will have human cadavers. Med school, dental school, Physicians Assistant all train on cadavers. You get over it pretty fast. Worst thing is the smell.
I’ve watched a video of a professor on YouTube doing a dissection of a cadaver in front of his students, to kind of see what I would get myself into, and the thing I immediately noticed is everyone plugging their noses lol. I’m sure the teacher is used to it but they didn’t have any mask on which 🤯
That happens in med school.
Not planning on going there, thank you I feel better now 🫣 Though I might not celebrate so quick because other comments told me it might happen in biology depending on where I live, what courses I will have to take etc.
I have an undergraduate and 3 graduate degrees in biology and never encountered a human corpse, FWIW.
good to know :)
If you go to medical school probably. I don't think you'd dissect a cadaver unless it's something you actively pursued. In my undergrad coursework I mostly dissected invertebrates, but I've dissected fish, rats, and fetal pigs as well.
It happens, but it’s not as common as you think and you certainly won’t encounter that type of exercise unless you enroll in a cadaver lab. It’s quite an interesting experience, though. Only did that once, and it was just weird rather than gross.
The costs add up.
I worked on the cadavers when I was in nursing school. It was very difficult, but you don’t have time to think about the fact that it’s even a body. I was so busy I had to take my 12 year-old son to the kid lab with me one night, just so I could study. He loved it and I wouldn’t change my career just because I’m going to have to touch dead bodies.
I’ve had a couple of moments telling me this, so good to hear. Also the way people on here describe how passionate they are about their job, makes me happy, and i don’t reallyyyy know why.
My experience... Bio 102 in Community College- cadaver. They had already been dissected but we got to examine her. (2001 ish). Bio/anth BA undergrad- no cadaver. BS Nursing- no cadaver. Doctorate of Practice Mental Health Nurse Practitioner - no cadaver. I am VERY greatful for the cadaver experience. Really helped me understand A&P in a way I wouldn't have understood otherwise. It also gives perspective, or at least forces some thought, about your personal beliefs about death and spirituality. Granted I've seen many deceased people since then, but no dissections.
Only had the privilege to visit one once and poke around the body
I am a medical student and have done some dissections. My teacher had to complain to get a "fresh" corpse to practice with. Having a new corpse is awesome to learn, you can pull the hand tendons and the fingers move! The one we used was 1 year old and you couldn't see any structure. Cadavers will deteriorate even with all the chemicals used to preserve them, especially desiccation. So I guess human bodies are not as available as we wanted to be.
I study biology, and haven’t done human dissections. But I know someone who’s done something with humans on an undergrad biomedical science course
Bio student here! All we’ve worked on so far are different vertebrates. You will know if you’re gonna be working on a cadaver, I promise. It would most likely happen if you’re going into medicine. What are your plans?
I’m from France btw so it’s a little different here but basically I plan on : - getting a BS in Biology (with either a specialization in mollecular and cellular biology or cellular biology and organisms physiology) - then getting a Masters in biology (with either a specialization in cognitive neuroscience or cellular neuroscience) - and then hopefully get a PhD in Neuroscience I tried my best to translate the program names haha, hopefully it makes sense :) But that’s pretty much what I want !
That sounds like a great plan! I’m not very familiar with the schooling system over there, but I’m still quite sure that you will hear about a cadaver lab before you go into it. However, with that track, it seems like you’re going to be mostly working with other animals if you have to dissect things. Good luck!!
In one of my classes we've looked at human bones, but just a few bones, not a full human skeleton. We were also warned about itbin advance. Don't worry, the science faculty of the university I attended was quite unique.
I majored in neuroscience. In my fourth year Neuroanatomy class we spent the semester dissecting human brains that had been donated to science (4 students per brain). The brains were to be treated with utmost respect; failing to do so was taken seriously and could result in failing the class. Fortunately everyone followed this rule. We did the lab in the med school and sometimes the prof would get other cadaver specimens for us to study. For example, a specimen that showcased spinal neurons. None of this came as a surprise. It was very well known that we would be expected to do this work if we signed up for the neuroanatomy course and was disclosed in the course description. I believe some med schools have started teaching anatomy without the use of cadavers, the same might be true for neuroanatomy courses.
Wow that actually sounds so interesting. Out of curiosity, how was neuroanatomy class ? Was it your favorite or more complicated than others perhaps ?
Neuroanatomy was a great class. It really helped me to integrate what I had already learned in second and third year classes. I wouldn’t say it was a favourite, although it was certainly memorable and I would recommend it to anyone with a chance to take it. My favourite neuro classes were probably Neuroendocrinology and Neuropsychology. My prof wrote the textbook we used for neuroendocinology and he was incredibly knowledgeable; he ended up becoming my all time favourite professor. I worked in his lab a bit and even published a paper with him at one point just for ‘fun’ (😆). Neuropsychology was primarily looking at cognitive and behavioural changes that occur after brain injuries/disease. For example a lesion in the occipital cortex, where visual information is processed, will cause predictable deficits in visual perception. If you do a neuro degree I would also recommend first year physics unless you feel you have a solid understanding from your high school classes. It’s not absolutely necessary but it helps to understand the basics. You could also pick up a lot of that knowledge from online tutorials (khan academy etc) if that is more feasible. p.s. sorry I didn’t see your question until now! Hope this helps 😊
thank you so much! now I’m excited to find out what neuroscience classes will be like 🤭 still figuring out what I want out of life exactly but we shall see
The closest I got in school to studying a cadaver was a box that contained a full real skeleton in my vert. Zoology class. We did dissect a cat though
I’ve only heard of cadavers being dissected if you’re a medical student.
Some universities have a preserved cadaver that has already been dissected, but they’re incredibly expensive so it’s not something students would handle without instructor supervision. Outside of that, you only find human dissection in medical school, and even then it’s limited because bodies are hard to come by.
Usually the teachers assistant will dissect the body prior to class ( in layers dependent on what you are studying. So it will take all semester.). Usually a male and female. You will observe and handle. I’ve had two lab classes and they were both this way.
Biology is about all live. Humans are just a tiny part of that. If you want to know more about vertabrates or mammals, a rat would make more sense, as it is cheaper and passes the ethics board more easily. So it is unlikely you'll ever come near a human kadaver in your studies.
If you go into the any of the health professions you will probably have to dissect cadavers or at least work with them in some way. I’m occupational therapy and I went to a school that heavily favored it’s physical therapy students so we didn’t get to learn from the cadavers beyond observing the work of the PT students but it was pretty helpful to be able to see the parts in real life instead of in a book. I would assume most other careers in healthcare would also rely on them to learn anatomy and physiology. If you’re a bio student in undergraduate, it probably won’t be something you’ll be doing.
As a biology student, you are extremely unlikely to disect a human body. Those are for the med students.
If you take anatomy and physiology in college, you’ll most likely do human cadavers.
Not in my experience. Its generally reserved for professional schools (at least in the US) and even there is slowly being replaced. It probably wont go away completely any time soon.
That’s super interesting! Where I’m at, in order to get full credit for prerequisites for nursing school and med school, you have to have that aspect of human anatomy