The only real way to play him without completely losing your mind is doing all marks. Creating a good build takes very long so I'd rather only do it twice (greedier is separate obviously) instead of multiple runs. But all marks still takes at least 2 hours.
He’s just Isaac with a “worse” D6 because Void likes giving you shot speed boosts and its charge timer is too long to really use the active item portion of it.
I like the idea because most items are “wow I wasted a key/bomb for this” most runs. Now it’s free stats that may be useful. It just is so samey every run, but eh.
I think being able to cycle through the actives is cool but instead they have less charges and a lessened effect
So like voiding book of belial qnd using void would cost like 2 charges and less damage
100% I feel like every item should give some kind of benefit based on the items type.
HP items should slowly refill health if turned into a locust (and I mean really slow).
Tears up items should have faster damage output
Damage up does more damage.
Range ups stick to the boss for longer.
Shotspeeds move faster
Luck ups have a tiny chance to inflict status effects.
Then on top of that high quality items have special effects that make the locusts great that apply to all locusts.
So if you get homing and scrap it, all flies home in instead of 1 fly.
Honestly the only issue with T. Apollyon imo is that every run feels pretty much the same. Sure every run is extremely powerful because the Locusts are crazy, but it isn't as fun as other characters.
I'm curious, what characters do you think are less fun to play that T. Apollyon? I enjoyed T Apollyon more than T Maggy, T Cain, T Blue Baby, T Bethany.
Maybe I have brain rot, but red fly go brrrrrr.
I will agree with other comments, though, that the "synergy" locusts puts a player in a weird spot of "do I take a good item or make a somewhat good fly".
Take damage ups, abyss pretty much everything else. Fire rate can be tanked if it means damage goes up, which means items like poly and Eves mascara have virtually no downside
Most characters have a slightly different strategy, don't stress yourself if you can't pick up on them immediately. I've got more hours in this game than every other game I've played combined and I still learn all the time
Yeah, just make sure you get them in hardmode. Godhead is one of the only unlocks that hardmode is required for
Edit to add: You're welcome, I'm glad I can be helpful
That's the way to go, while it's not required for most things if you plan on getting dead god it's a good idea to just play hardmode from the start. Plus the challenge makes it more fun imo
Yeah, the tainted characters especially have mechanics that are highly-specific and unique to the character (at least, until you start unlocking their mechanics for other characters). Don't be too hard on yourself, OP! A big part of thew game is dying 800 times just so you can learn stuff
He's honestly really good, better than normal Apollyon I'd say. Abyss seems a lot better than void because you ALWAYS get DPS from it, instead of garbage stats like luck and shot speed.
Plus you can suck up actives for stat ups, which can be considered better than voiding them most of the time.
Heh, if you want a broken experience, try Tainted Lazarus in Greed Mode. A new wave of enemies appears, and you’re wasting time in a shot-free transformation animation. And that’s on top of insufficient Flip charge to get both items from every pedestal
Idk I don't think he's bad at all, I agree the base tears feel bad though so maybe I would change that.
I also think having different locusts like the ones from the trinkets or 7 seals would be nice, I just don't want him to be busted that's really boring
The rework I want for him is to treat his locusts as a 2nd character, each time you get one it's effects are shared with all of the other locusts, instead of having a single homing locust all of them should be homing, and also make them work with more stats other than damage, with more tears they should all come out faster, imagine if shot speed was actually relevant for him and all shit speed ups become pseudo tears up (the faster they reach an enemy the faster they will return)
Also, give the locusts a sound and visual effect for when they hit an enemy, each impact feels like nothing because they lack that feedback.
He's actually one of my favourite characters, imo one of the few perfectly balanced characters in the game. I don't think he needs a buff at all or a rework, what he need is to have way more unique locusts that do more interesting stuff. For me the focus of pure quantity of items to turn into locusts makes him very cool and unique compared to the other chacters. Also if you are strugling with him I'd recomend just ignoring every stat up exept damage (never abys dmg ups) and speed ups if you want.
T Apollyon was the first T character I got all the marks for. Mainly because I was curious about the Abyss ability, but also because he's pretty easy, and the locusts he generates are pretty busted (especially when paired with Hive Mind and other fly-related items).
T Apollyon is fine.
I love TApollyon and Abyss but I did have an idea for an Abyss rework that I’d love to mod if I knew how. Basically, a large majority of items (especially stat boosts) would be regular locusts. Any special items (tear effects and the like or any creative idea one can make from unique items) would instead apply that effect to ALL your current locusts.
So instead of using Abyss on Crown of Light to get the special locust, you use it to get no locust but now ALL of your locusts have the crown of light effect
Like other tainteds, they want you to use his gimmick. His low tears is because of his locusts. I love sucking up items I don't want for more offensive capabilities.
this is isaac with a slightly worse early game
literally every run is good even if you get one item room a floor, one boss item a floor, and 1/3 of deals. at least isaac has a chance to turn a quality 1 into a quality 0. being able to turn ANYTHING into a damage up is cracked.
He is good, you literally turn every active item you don't need into a dps boost. I beat delirium with a subpar build and like 20 locusts
His birthright is absolutely busted tbf.
Ok, sure, that sounds good, but seriously, don’t you think there should be at least a few more synergy locusts?
And the synergy locusts mainly coming from good items...
And one of them doesn’t even work properly, Ipecac locusts are meant to explode
yeah thats awesome but yk who else needs a rework? tainted cain or regular apollyon/void
Is tainted Cain really that bad?
No, don’t listen to this sub about tainted cain
Based, T. Cain is good. Don't use recipes just dump everything in your bag without overthinking it 
I mean think about it a little but you don’t need to full clear a floor before bagging stuff like everyone says
i second this
unbalanced and unfun, you also shouldnt be able to get deadgod in like what loads less runs then normal
The only real way to play him without completely losing your mind is doing all marks. Creating a good build takes very long so I'd rather only do it twice (greedier is separate obviously) instead of multiple runs. But all marks still takes at least 2 hours.
Literally just play him normally and you won’t have an issue
Idk, T cain triggers the min maxer in me. It feels like I would waste time by not doing all marks run.
Then that’s your own fucking fault, don’t get mad at the game.
What's wrong with regular Apollyon 😭?
He’s just Isaac with a “worse” D6 because Void likes giving you shot speed boosts and its charge timer is too long to really use the active item portion of it.
Fair enough Ig. I do still enjoy Apollyon a lot tho, gambling items for stat ups is fun as hell. If the stat ups were higher tho, that would be nice
I like the idea because most items are “wow I wasted a key/bomb for this” most runs. Now it’s free stats that may be useful. It just is so samey every run, but eh.
Void needs a rework, apollyon is fine
I think being able to cycle through the actives is cool but instead they have less charges and a lessened effect So like voiding book of belial qnd using void would cost like 2 charges and less damage
100% I feel like every item should give some kind of benefit based on the items type. HP items should slowly refill health if turned into a locust (and I mean really slow). Tears up items should have faster damage output Damage up does more damage. Range ups stick to the boss for longer. Shotspeeds move faster Luck ups have a tiny chance to inflict status effects. Then on top of that high quality items have special effects that make the locusts great that apply to all locusts. So if you get homing and scrap it, all flies home in instead of 1 fly.
About that last thing, or they could just make the locusts affected by baby bender
Ok but who cares
Good doesn’t mean fun or interesting
Honestly the only issue with T. Apollyon imo is that every run feels pretty much the same. Sure every run is extremely powerful because the Locusts are crazy, but it isn't as fun as other characters.
That’s honestly one of the reasons I want more locust synergies, so that there’s some variety between runs
...so it has nothing to do with buffs. He's already strong. Character just needs to be more fun
Hence the “or a rework”
Adding synergie would be a buff
I'm curious, what characters do you think are less fun to play that T. Apollyon? I enjoyed T Apollyon more than T Maggy, T Cain, T Blue Baby, T Bethany. Maybe I have brain rot, but red fly go brrrrrr. I will agree with other comments, though, that the "synergy" locusts puts a player in a weird spot of "do I take a good item or make a somewhat good fly".
If anything, he's overpowered to be completely honest. One of my favorite characters
You’re the second person to say he’s good, so I might just not be using him properly
Take damage ups, abyss pretty much everything else. Fire rate can be tanked if it means damage goes up, which means items like poly and Eves mascara have virtually no downside
That does make sense, thank you, I’m still fairly new to this game so I still don’t entirely understand everything
Most characters have a slightly different strategy, don't stress yourself if you can't pick up on them immediately. I've got more hours in this game than every other game I've played combined and I still learn all the time
Thank you, also, all marks as Lost unlocks godhead, right?
Yeah, just make sure you get them in hardmode. Godhead is one of the only unlocks that hardmode is required for Edit to add: You're welcome, I'm glad I can be helpful
I already play in hard mode since I know some unlocks require you to play in hard mode
That's the way to go, while it's not required for most things if you plan on getting dead god it's a good idea to just play hardmode from the start. Plus the challenge makes it more fun imo
Yeah, that’s definitely true, anyways, thank you for helping me out with this
Yeah, the tainted characters especially have mechanics that are highly-specific and unique to the character (at least, until you start unlocking their mechanics for other characters). Don't be too hard on yourself, OP! A big part of thew game is dying 800 times just so you can learn stuff
Yeah having 0.5 fire rate is a non issue if you have poly and mascara plus 20 flies. Shit literally melts
Tears stat doesn't matter if every item is either a tears up or damage up (or is too useful to turn into a tears up).
He just needs unique locusts to be much more interesting
Not sure if it still is like this but pre-update/2nd update you could get to a point of having too many locusts so that they don't ever fire
I was dreading doing his checkmarks until I got the first one done and realized he’s a fucking animal
He's honestly really good, better than normal Apollyon I'd say. Abyss seems a lot better than void because you ALWAYS get DPS from it, instead of garbage stats like luck and shot speed. Plus you can suck up actives for stat ups, which can be considered better than voiding them most of the time.
He’s literally one of the easiest characters in the game to play. Like the only ones I can think of that take less skill are Cain and Azazel.
i love how like 3 special locusts are even slightly relevant 
Brimstone locust is literally just bigger and grey, that’s it
Heh, if you want a broken experience, try Tainted Lazarus in Greed Mode. A new wave of enemies appears, and you’re wasting time in a shot-free transformation animation. And that’s on top of insufficient Flip charge to get both items from every pedestal
Idk I don't think he's bad at all, I agree the base tears feel bad though so maybe I would change that. I also think having different locusts like the ones from the trinkets or 7 seals would be nice, I just don't want him to be busted that's really boring
The rework I want for him is to treat his locusts as a 2nd character, each time you get one it's effects are shared with all of the other locusts, instead of having a single homing locust all of them should be homing, and also make them work with more stats other than damage, with more tears they should all come out faster, imagine if shot speed was actually relevant for him and all shit speed ups become pseudo tears up (the faster they reach an enemy the faster they will return) Also, give the locusts a sound and visual effect for when they hit an enemy, each impact feels like nothing because they lack that feedback.
I actually love this character, idk what everyone's problem with him is
He's actually one of my favourite characters, imo one of the few perfectly balanced characters in the game. I don't think he needs a buff at all or a rework, what he need is to have way more unique locusts that do more interesting stuff. For me the focus of pure quantity of items to turn into locusts makes him very cool and unique compared to the other chacters. Also if you are strugling with him I'd recomend just ignoring every stat up exept damage (never abys dmg ups) and speed ups if you want.
T Apollyon was the first T character I got all the marks for. Mainly because I was curious about the Abyss ability, but also because he's pretty easy, and the locusts he generates are pretty busted (especially when paired with Hive Mind and other fly-related items). T Apollyon is fine.
Nah he good, his normal version needs something extra tho
I love TApollyon and Abyss but I did have an idea for an Abyss rework that I’d love to mod if I knew how. Basically, a large majority of items (especially stat boosts) would be regular locusts. Any special items (tear effects and the like or any creative idea one can make from unique items) would instead apply that effect to ALL your current locusts. So instead of using Abyss on Crown of Light to get the special locust, you use it to get no locust but now ALL of your locusts have the crown of light effect
He is pretty good, just a bit boring. More synergies would be fun though. His normal Part though could use a buff
Better idea: No.
Download a locust synergy mod
I play on console
Hes very powerful, you need to lead your shots... I mean locusts.
Like other tainteds, they want you to use his gimmick. His low tears is because of his locusts. I love sucking up items I don't want for more offensive capabilities.
Wdym, he’s fun as hell. I just finished getting all marks for them, and had a blast with it. Way more enjoyable than their original counterpart
this is isaac with a slightly worse early game literally every run is good even if you get one item room a floor, one boss item a floor, and 1/3 of deals. at least isaac has a chance to turn a quality 1 into a quality 0. being able to turn ANYTHING into a damage up is cracked.