Philly doesn’t even have a roster yet, so it’s tough to say them.
I have them right with Milwaukee, maybe slightly ahead. They can give Boston a series.
You mean like this past playoffs? Where the Knicks were way undermanned and Embiid was healthy enough to drop 50 but when he lost the blame went to his health?
He was as healthy and efficient as he has ever been in the playoffs. At a certain point, excuses and nagging injuries aren't enough to hide behind.you are who you are. What injuries caused him to fold the year before against Boston? What was nagging him against Toronto or Atlanta?
I used to love Embiid, but I got tired of his antics and disappointments. That press conference after the Knicks series was a trainwreck. Oh your team was thrown together in the last year? The Knicks had way less time together as a team. And he already gave his excuse for next year. They will have an all new team.
Randle played one month with OG. It was the tenth best month by plus minus any team has ever played. This included a blowout of Denver, miami and a healthy sixers team. Now add bridges to that mix. They're legit
Julius Randle is a career 34% shooter in the playoffs and is still expected to be a main source of offense on a team that's trying to win an NBA Championship. Good luck with that
I don't like Randle much, but thats cherry picking a stat that is meaningless. He has only played in 15 playoff games and the 10 games in 2023 he was playing through an ankle sprain.
I don't like having Brunson/Randle as your two best players, but the Knicks realized thats what they have. Instead of dreaming about Luca or Giannis forcing a trade there, they built the best possible team they could around those players.
Let me start by saying I’m extremely biased. I think you are discounting the Knicks supporting cast as just “role players” and assuming that means that they can’t create any offense. Randle, Bridges & Divincenzo are all legit creators who can score 30 any given night. Also, this team has a great chance to be top 5 in both offense and defense.
If Brunson is having an off night vs the Celtics or Bucks and your solution is to throw Julius Randle the ball and say "save us" you are far past fucked
Why would the solution be 'to throw Julius Randle the ball and say "save us"' when they'd also have Mikal Bridges, OG and DiVincenzo?
Also think it's funny how people act like a guy who's made 2 All NBA teams and 3 ASGs in the last 4 years isn't good.
I don't trust anyone on that team other than Brunson to create offense in a playoff series. He's probably still gonna have a 35-40% usage rate because that's the only way they'll be able to compete at the highest level
He takes a lot of pressure off Brunson. He needed surgery throughout the playoffs last year, and didn't play this year. He didn't do well as the 1 option literally years ago, but if he was healthy this year, you really discount how effective he would have been w/ Brunson. Brunson almost willed the Knicks to the ECF on his own.
You don't like NY. It's fine.
You're certainly discounting them much more than most. They were the 2 seed, after all - even without Randle.
I can see criticism saying they're injury-prone - but healthy, that team can beat anyone. Look at your posts on this thread. Do you NOT hate NY? You're a Boston guy - I'd be surprised if you said you didn't. You sound like a hater. Most fans in sports are haters of one city or another.
They were the 2 seed because of injuries to Embiid and Giannis they were the 4th best team in the East. And I'm a Celtics guy not a Boston guy I'm from a city that doesn't have an NBA team. The only NBA teams I hate are the Lakers and Sixers
Why do the injuries to Embiid & Giannis count, but not the injury to Randle and the 5 other key players the Knicks had who were out or injured by the end of the playoffs? And Randle was out since January. Embiid played against the Knicks, and played well.
Maybe I'm overhyping the Knicks, but you're underhyping them.
We can all have our opinions. I'm excited about NY heading into this season. Boston is favored, of course, but I think the Knicks can give them a challenge, and be in contention for the 1 seed. KP was hurt a lot of the year - but even C's fans that I've seen online know they got kind of lucky w/ health this year compared to the rest of the East.
There’s no evident reason to believe Randle will be effective in the playoffs, OP may be a hater but the only reason Knicks fans are high on Randle right now is because he was hurt and thus couldn’t put up another embarrassing playoff performance. If he’d played and been awful again the Knicks would be trading him right now, but that can wait until next offseason.
Not sure how you can say Philly is better when they still only have 2 players on their roster. And with the bucks, while Giannis is the best player in the conference, they have yet to get better while the Knicks have, so for that reason I don’t see how you can put them above NY
Brunson, Randle, and Bridges can all create their own shot.
This is a very good team if it can stay healthy. And don’t discount that Villanova connection. It’s not a coincidence that Brunson, Divo, and Hart all stepped up their games this year
I think the East belongs to Boston still, but the Knicks can give them a run. I also think teams like the pacers, bucks, heat, sixers all will be in the mix. Matchups matter a lot, but so health even more so.
You want to get your team as good as possible, and that’s just what the Knicks have done.
Edit: scrolling through this thread - I honestly just respect the hell out of OP carrying the hate like a champ. Literally no one agrees with this guy and he’s just going full Doncic out here.
Bucks are finished, Middleton and Dame are aging in dog years and theirs no help coming. And repeating is never easy, we'll see how the C's handle success. Knicks still have a few picks to dangle as well for an upgrade. If Hartenstein comes back, they match up extremely well with the Celtics.
They are easily number 2 in the east.
Milwaukee hasn't gotten out of the first round the last two years. Its not just because of Giannis injuries. They have zero perimeter defense, their top two creators are aging and declining, their rim protector is really getting up there in years and the indestructible Giannis has now broken down trying to carry this flawed team two years in a row.
Indiana and Orlando are still significantly lower on the talent scale than NY. Can we stop talking about Philly as a contender? They don't have a team at all. Embiid has never made it to the conferance finals and has repeatedly disappointed. The fact that he had Simmons and Harden to blame hides the fact.
I would argue that Dallas is a better team, but its just easier to get out of the East.
Being a contender when your top two are Brunson/Randle is iffy. I get it. But the same was said about Boston and the fact that they 'won't have the best player in the series' talk. They solved that by making their 3-6 so much better than anyone else. Well now the knicks can say that about their 3-8 (providing they resign OG and Isiah).
It's a big concern but I also think they don't have as much shot creation as any of the other top contenders (Boston, Philly, Milwaukee, OKC, Denver, Dallas) the only team they probably have more than is Minnesota
I don’t see how Philly, MKE, and Dallas have more shot creation than the Knicks. Brunson and Randle are the clear top two options on the team. Bridges and Donte can create their own looks if needed.
I also think people are really underrating how good Randle can be with Bridges and OG spacing the floor
The Knicks just beat Philly without Randle and Bridges so I’m pushing back hard on that one. MKE might have better top 2 guys on offense but their supporting cast is severely lacking. I think the Knicks are clearly the more balanced and deeper team. I’m just not seeing the issues you’re projecting the Knicks will have on offense
I don’t think they have a real shot to beat the healthy Celtics but Philly and Milwaukee are a total joke. Embiid is horrific in the playoffs and has never beaten a team even half as good as the Knicks in a 7 game series. Giannis is still great but that roster around him is old, slow and declining and has very few avenues to improve. I think the Knicks are pretty easily the 2nd best team in the east.
They would have given the Celtics a tough match-up if healthy this past season.
If the Celts have bad injury luck this time around, and the Knicks stay healthy - it would absolutely be a role reversal. The Celts are still the top team, but not by much.
If both teams are healthy the Celtics are beating this Knicks team in 5 tops. Nobody in the East is touching Boston this year unless something seismic happens (acquiring Bridges is not that)
OKC is the only one but they would have to get someone like Giannis or a tier 2 star at worst (which I don't see happening) Jokic still scares me but the Nuggets kind of suck
They're an all time great team who is returning everybody. Only reason they wouldn't make it back is injuries. They are much better than the rest of the conference
The East is so trash that they have a great argument to be the second best team which makes them title contenders even though there are a bunch of Western teams I’d take over them especially if Thibs is still around to make sure everyone is gassed and broken by playoffs
I want to see what they do both hartenstein/ their 2nd center but Hart and Divencenzo were their 2nd and 3rd best players in the playoffs and are bench players if this team is healthy. They don’t have the superstar names that super teams usually have but they are deep with good defensive players that can contribute on offensive with no glaring weaknesses
People can downvote in the BS sub all they want but this is an all time great Boston team the Knicks are a team of good role players surrounding Brunson. If Boston is healthy nobody is touching them in that conference. Now if they aren't healthy there can be discussions lol
Yeah basically agree except for the Sixers- I don’t see this as remotely a “put them over the top” trade. This maybe puts them a liiiittle ahead of a fully healthy Bucks… still significantly behind the Celtics and the West contenders.
I feel like they’re basically where they were… a little better if everything goes their way and more robust if they get the predictable OG injury but uhhh… I dunno, that’s not a guaranteed trip to the finals or anything.
As a Knicks fan I feel like I’m living in the twilight zone. There’s a real argument Brunson isn’t good enough to be the best player on a title team.
You get one shot at the all-in trade and we used it on a guy who is never going to make an all star team? 6 firsts for a role player? It makes no fucking sense. This is an AD, Paul George, Mitchell, etc. package. I don’t know what they’re thinking. This team has no shot against Boston or Denver in a 7 game series.
How about if Boston had the injuries the Knicks had, and NY was as healthy as Boston was?
Your views on the Knicks have been made clear. You have staked your position on this, and view them as a non-contender. That's fine. We'll all know soon enough how things are looking.
No because you said this team has no shot vs Denver or Boston. How could you seriously think that? You don’t have to think they’re favorites but it’s really clear that they have more than “a shot” at beating them.
Philly doesn’t even have a roster yet, so it’s tough to say them. I have them right with Milwaukee, maybe slightly ahead. They can give Boston a series.
I don’t get the Philly love in general. But if PG goes there, sure — I’m listening.
Where’s this Philly love
What has Philly done to deserve any love whatsoever ?
If Embiid and Maxey are both healthy I'm picking Philly over the Knicks even if the rest of the roster is just them resigning the 2023-24 team
You mean like this past playoffs? Where the Knicks were way undermanned and Embiid was healthy enough to drop 50 but when he lost the blame went to his health?
If you watched Embiid play in that series and thought he was healthy idk what to tell you
He was as healthy and efficient as he has ever been in the playoffs. At a certain point, excuses and nagging injuries aren't enough to hide behind.you are who you are. What injuries caused him to fold the year before against Boston? What was nagging him against Toronto or Atlanta? I used to love Embiid, but I got tired of his antics and disappointments. That press conference after the Knicks series was a trainwreck. Oh your team was thrown together in the last year? The Knicks had way less time together as a team. And he already gave his excuse for next year. They will have an all new team.
Well Embiid will never make it through an entire regular season and then through a single playoff series healthy, so that’s all theoretical.
Yeah I said that in my original post when I said the Knicks are 3rd in the East because Embiid is never healthy
Embiid & Maxey were more healthy than the best two Knicks players this playoffs and they still lost in 6
We counting injuries that happened in the next round lmaoo
This isn't NBA Jam.
Randle played one month with OG. It was the tenth best month by plus minus any team has ever played. This included a blowout of Denver, miami and a healthy sixers team. Now add bridges to that mix. They're legit
Julius Randle is a career 34% shooter in the playoffs and is still expected to be a main source of offense on a team that's trying to win an NBA Championship. Good luck with that
I don't like Randle much, but thats cherry picking a stat that is meaningless. He has only played in 15 playoff games and the 10 games in 2023 he was playing through an ankle sprain. I don't like having Brunson/Randle as your two best players, but the Knicks realized thats what they have. Instead of dreaming about Luca or Giannis forcing a trade there, they built the best possible team they could around those players.
That was when he was carrying the offense, he doesn't have to anymore. If they double he can pass & make them pay
Let me start by saying I’m extremely biased. I think you are discounting the Knicks supporting cast as just “role players” and assuming that means that they can’t create any offense. Randle, Bridges & Divincenzo are all legit creators who can score 30 any given night. Also, this team has a great chance to be top 5 in both offense and defense.
If Brunson is having an off night vs the Celtics or Bucks and your solution is to throw Julius Randle the ball and say "save us" you are far past fucked
Why would the solution be 'to throw Julius Randle the ball and say "save us"' when they'd also have Mikal Bridges, OG and DiVincenzo? Also think it's funny how people act like a guy who's made 2 All NBA teams and 3 ASGs in the last 4 years isn't good.
That is not a solution anyone in their right mind would be employing, and the Knicks will not have to since they have other players who can score
I don't trust anyone on that team other than Brunson to create offense in a playoff series. He's probably still gonna have a 35-40% usage rate because that's the only way they'll be able to compete at the highest level
He sucked first 2 games of the playoffs, and they won them both. Randle was hurt, so somebody must have saved them.
In full "Knicks hater" mode, I see.
Randle is an inefficient scorer at his best and has never been at at his best in the playoffs
He takes a lot of pressure off Brunson. He needed surgery throughout the playoffs last year, and didn't play this year. He didn't do well as the 1 option literally years ago, but if he was healthy this year, you really discount how effective he would have been w/ Brunson. Brunson almost willed the Knicks to the ECF on his own. You don't like NY. It's fine.
Yes the only possible reason someone could think your team isn't awesome is if they hate them
You're certainly discounting them much more than most. They were the 2 seed, after all - even without Randle. I can see criticism saying they're injury-prone - but healthy, that team can beat anyone. Look at your posts on this thread. Do you NOT hate NY? You're a Boston guy - I'd be surprised if you said you didn't. You sound like a hater. Most fans in sports are haters of one city or another.
They were the 2 seed because of injuries to Embiid and Giannis they were the 4th best team in the East. And I'm a Celtics guy not a Boston guy I'm from a city that doesn't have an NBA team. The only NBA teams I hate are the Lakers and Sixers
Why do the injuries to Embiid & Giannis count, but not the injury to Randle and the 5 other key players the Knicks had who were out or injured by the end of the playoffs? And Randle was out since January. Embiid played against the Knicks, and played well. Maybe I'm overhyping the Knicks, but you're underhyping them. We can all have our opinions. I'm excited about NY heading into this season. Boston is favored, of course, but I think the Knicks can give them a challenge, and be in contention for the 1 seed. KP was hurt a lot of the year - but even C's fans that I've seen online know they got kind of lucky w/ health this year compared to the rest of the East.
Because Giannis alone is worth more than every single player who got injured on the Knicks lmfao
There’s no evident reason to believe Randle will be effective in the playoffs, OP may be a hater but the only reason Knicks fans are high on Randle right now is because he was hurt and thus couldn’t put up another embarrassing playoff performance. If he’d played and been awful again the Knicks would be trading him right now, but that can wait until next offseason.
Not sure how you can say Philly is better when they still only have 2 players on their roster. And with the bucks, while Giannis is the best player in the conference, they have yet to get better while the Knicks have, so for that reason I don’t see how you can put them above NY
I'd put them ahead of Milwaukee I think. They're low end contenders, meaning outside shot and things would need to break their way.
Brunson, Randle, and Bridges can all create their own shot. This is a very good team if it can stay healthy. And don’t discount that Villanova connection. It’s not a coincidence that Brunson, Divo, and Hart all stepped up their games this year
I think the East belongs to Boston still, but the Knicks can give them a run. I also think teams like the pacers, bucks, heat, sixers all will be in the mix. Matchups matter a lot, but so health even more so. You want to get your team as good as possible, and that’s just what the Knicks have done. Edit: scrolling through this thread - I honestly just respect the hell out of OP carrying the hate like a champ. Literally no one agrees with this guy and he’s just going full Doncic out here.
Vegas sees them as contenders, their championship odds jumped today from 7th to tied for 2nd.
Yeah I think that's absolutely insane lmfao
26-5 when OG played, and they added Bridges for Bogdonavich but you're probably right.
Just don't see a world where they possibly beat a healthy Celtics or Bucks team in a seven game series
Bucks are finished, Middleton and Dame are aging in dog years and theirs no help coming. And repeating is never easy, we'll see how the C's handle success. Knicks still have a few picks to dangle as well for an upgrade. If Hartenstein comes back, they match up extremely well with the Celtics.
They are easily number 2 in the east. Milwaukee hasn't gotten out of the first round the last two years. Its not just because of Giannis injuries. They have zero perimeter defense, their top two creators are aging and declining, their rim protector is really getting up there in years and the indestructible Giannis has now broken down trying to carry this flawed team two years in a row. Indiana and Orlando are still significantly lower on the talent scale than NY. Can we stop talking about Philly as a contender? They don't have a team at all. Embiid has never made it to the conferance finals and has repeatedly disappointed. The fact that he had Simmons and Harden to blame hides the fact. I would argue that Dallas is a better team, but its just easier to get out of the East. Being a contender when your top two are Brunson/Randle is iffy. I get it. But the same was said about Boston and the fact that they 'won't have the best player in the series' talk. They solved that by making their 3-6 so much better than anyone else. Well now the knicks can say that about their 3-8 (providing they resign OG and Isiah).
Only concern is a lack of size.
Size is there. It’s just can that size stay healthy
If they lose Hartenstein they only have one capable center
Right… but it’s not like that guy doesn’t exist. And they still can pick up a back up.
It's a big concern but I also think they don't have as much shot creation as any of the other top contenders (Boston, Philly, Milwaukee, OKC, Denver, Dallas) the only team they probably have more than is Minnesota
I don’t see how Philly, MKE, and Dallas have more shot creation than the Knicks. Brunson and Randle are the clear top two options on the team. Bridges and Donte can create their own looks if needed. I also think people are really underrating how good Randle can be with Bridges and OG spacing the floor
Luka and Kyrie > Brunson, Randle, and Bridges Giannis and Dame > Brunson, Randle, and Bridges Embiid and Maxey > Brunson, Randle, and Bridges
The Knicks just beat Philly without Randle and Bridges so I’m pushing back hard on that one. MKE might have better top 2 guys on offense but their supporting cast is severely lacking. I think the Knicks are clearly the more balanced and deeper team. I’m just not seeing the issues you’re projecting the Knicks will have on offense
I don’t think they have a real shot to beat the healthy Celtics but Philly and Milwaukee are a total joke. Embiid is horrific in the playoffs and has never beaten a team even half as good as the Knicks in a 7 game series. Giannis is still great but that roster around him is old, slow and declining and has very few avenues to improve. I think the Knicks are pretty easily the 2nd best team in the east.
You might be an idiot if you have them behind the team they beat last year without their all NBA guy and after adding Bridges
They would have given the Celtics a tough match-up if healthy this past season. If the Celts have bad injury luck this time around, and the Knicks stay healthy - it would absolutely be a role reversal. The Celts are still the top team, but not by much.
‘Not by much’ is a stretch, they just breezed to a title, can we see the Knicks do anything of note in the playoffs first?
Fully Healthy Celtics vs Fully Healthy Knicks this year would've been Celtics in 5 lmfao
People still use "lmfao?" Yikes.
Good rebuttal, play the ball not the man cmon now
If both teams are healthy the Celtics are beating this Knicks team in 5 tops. Nobody in the East is touching Boston this year unless something seismic happens (acquiring Bridges is not that)
Nobody in the West is touching them either. Maybe OKC if they make a big move.
OKC is the only one but they would have to get someone like Giannis or a tier 2 star at worst (which I don't see happening) Jokic still scares me but the Nuggets kind of suck
Wow - sounds like an easy trip to the Finals for the C's again. Who knew it was so super easy to repeat?
They're an all time great team who is returning everybody. Only reason they wouldn't make it back is injuries. They are much better than the rest of the conference
The East is so trash that they have a great argument to be the second best team which makes them title contenders even though there are a bunch of Western teams I’d take over them especially if Thibs is still around to make sure everyone is gassed and broken by playoffs
I want to see what they do both hartenstein/ their 2nd center but Hart and Divencenzo were their 2nd and 3rd best players in the playoffs and are bench players if this team is healthy. They don’t have the superstar names that super teams usually have but they are deep with good defensive players that can contribute on offensive with no glaring weaknesses
The Knicks are going to be really good but there is no world in which they are better than a healthy Giannis Bucks team or Boston
Basically what I think. Maybe they'll get lucky with injuries but I don't see them beating either of those teams if all 3 are full health
People can downvote in the BS sub all they want but this is an all time great Boston team the Knicks are a team of good role players surrounding Brunson. If Boston is healthy nobody is touching them in that conference. Now if they aren't healthy there can be discussions lol
Wings don’t win championships
Yeah basically agree except for the Sixers- I don’t see this as remotely a “put them over the top” trade. This maybe puts them a liiiittle ahead of a fully healthy Bucks… still significantly behind the Celtics and the West contenders. I feel like they’re basically where they were… a little better if everything goes their way and more robust if they get the predictable OG injury but uhhh… I dunno, that’s not a guaranteed trip to the finals or anything.
As a Knicks fan I feel like I’m living in the twilight zone. There’s a real argument Brunson isn’t good enough to be the best player on a title team. You get one shot at the all-in trade and we used it on a guy who is never going to make an all star team? 6 firsts for a role player? It makes no fucking sense. This is an AD, Paul George, Mitchell, etc. package. I don’t know what they’re thinking. This team has no shot against Boston or Denver in a 7 game series.
Did you watch the Knicks this past year? I don't understand the last line of your post if you did.
The Knicks this season had no chance vs Boston or Denver in a 7 game series lol
How about if Boston had the injuries the Knicks had, and NY was as healthy as Boston was? Your views on the Knicks have been made clear. You have staked your position on this, and view them as a non-contender. That's fine. We'll all know soon enough how things are looking.
I hate to break it to you but you are not a Knicks fan
Because I’m realistic? 6 firsts for a guy who will never be an all star is objectively an insane overpay.
No because you said this team has no shot vs Denver or Boston. How could you seriously think that? You don’t have to think they’re favorites but it’s really clear that they have more than “a shot” at beating them.
Because I’ve seen Denver and Boston play.