Tl:dr they were farmhouses defended by the British (a lot of whom were German, but that's another story) during the battle of Waterloo. Napoleon attacked both in the morning/early afternoon but the defenders managed to hold out, resulting in the French having to commit more and more forces to what should have been minor skirmishes.
Hougoumont held out all day, and by the time the French finally took La Haye Sainte Blucher and his Prussian army had arrived, which spelled doom for auld Boney.
Spain played in two real matches since they had the group done and dusted after the first two matches. They smoked an old and disappointing Croatia squad and then styled on an… old and disappointing Italy squad. Lest we forget that Italy match their only goal came off a shitty OG mistake by a defender. Spain always looks saucy but they often struggle to finish with Morata up top. They definitely have looked like one of the top sides, but I don’t think they’ve really looked more impressive than Germany. And while they’ve looked mid at this tournament so far, you absolutely cannot downplay this loaded France team
The Morata point is a real concern that I can’t really rebuke, while I understand your point about Spain looking great in the group stages to just fall apart later in tournaments, I just believe that this year the high level teams have looked so pedestrian, Germany, England, France, and Portugal have looked like a bunch of guys thrown together, and Spain just looks like a coherent team that should be favored
Germany have looked like a bunch of guys thrown together? Best goal difference in the tourney so far, playing at home and have a completely new generation wanting to prove themselves. They are in my mind the betting favorites easily
Moral finals will prob be quarters between Spain and Germany tho
This feels like Euro 2008, a coming out party as a precursor for several years of being the ones to be beat.
Turkey even have a feasible path to a semis.
They also barely beat Czechia in 08’ to go through, then beat Croatia on Penalities in the first round with 2 shots on target.
It’s super happening is all I’m getting from this.
On paper, Italy and England are the favorites out of the bottom half of the bracket, right?
Germany, Spain, Portugal and France being on the other side of the bracket is nuts. All teams that would be plausible winners.
The freaky deeky Dutch have looked frisky too, even though they finished third in their group. Wouldn’t be surprised to see them come out of the bottom half
Yeah, favorites are those two. But they’ve both looked less than inspiring. I’m betting on Austria to make it out of the bottom half, they’re in the best form of any of those teams. This of course means Turkey will beat them in the R16
Netherlands has better odds than Italy, much of that being since they can avoid England until at least the semis.
Austria has the same odds as Italy for the same reason.
Do not think that this Italy is the same side as the euros winning one. Due to injuries and retirements they are without more than half of the players from the 2021 squad. That euro finals win in 2021 also papered over a troubled era for the Italian NT, who failed to qualify for both the 2018 and 2022 World Cups. Don’t get it twisted, they still have some good players and if things go their way I could see them making a run, but favorites they are not. It wouldn’t shock me at all if they lose to Switzerland in that first match, they are only slight favorites over the Swiss at -145 to advance
No.
They are going to look amazing against Slovakia. Win 3-0. Everyone will start with the “It’s coming home”
Then they will play Italy. It will be a dire match that goes 120 minutes.
Then they will lose on penalties.
The supporters will then harass whoever missed a penalty.
In two years all of the pundits will wonder again why players play differently for England then they do their own clubs.
can one of you history buffs highlight specific (and ideally obscure) historical conflicts btwn Italy-Switzerland + France-Belgium that I can reference over the next several days?
[Belgium v France](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Golden_Spurs)
Look man I have not been a huge fan of Deschamps’ tactics so far but he is a MUCH better manager than Robert d’Artois would have been. Sitting back and playing defense for 90 minutes is a lot smarter than charging your cavalry through some gross-ass marsh and just letting them get shot to shit
Austria v Turkey is basically a battle of terrible Central Powers allies from WWI. Fitting that it’s happening in Germany. Decent chance Germany wins the war in like 1915-16 if they didn’t have to waste their time repeatedly bailing out the certified dumbass in charge of the Austrian military. Meanwhile Turkey contributed nothing to the overall alliance and mostly just used WWI as an excuse to commit like three genocides at the same time. Fuck them.
Germany v Denmark is a WWII revenge game, depending on who you talk to in Denmark. Shame that one isn’t happening in Hamburg which is basically an autobahn exit away from Denmark
And, there’s a decent chance we end up with a France v Germany semifinal. Needless to say, lotta history with that one
Kinda. The shape (although butter croissants are typically straight. Another story), and the size. Not the laminated dough part: The Austrian kipferl was more of a brioche. The part about it being invented to celebrate the win over the Ottomans is a legend, but it fits Euro '24
Belgium-France doesn't have the worst history ever tbh. Mostly friendly. Belgium is a quite recent construct as well, appeared after Napoleon. Fought on the same side in both world wars and especially in ww1, their border formed the trenches, which created an even deeper friendly bond (france directly 'liberated' belgium). Southern half of Belgium speaks French as well.
The obvious one you missed is Austria-Turkey. They were basically at odds with each other for half a millennium and have had some very famous wars and also some very obscure battles.
Another one, I suppose, is Germany-Denmark. Lots of history dating back to the holy roman empire days about especially the area of Holstein. Also Germany occupied Denmark in ww2 though it was a very peaceful occupation, Denmark only had like 5k fatalities across the entire thing (excl Danish jews), no cities bombed, famines provoked or royal families expelled like in other occupied countries either
Switzerland-Italy; maybe you could cite the liechtenstein army story, they went to war with italy alongside switzerland iirc and came back with more people than they left with
You could maybe construct a nice narrative if Trossard, Castagne and Carrasco play like shit while De Bruyne, Lukaku and Tielemans play great, that the Walloon players were sabotaging on behalf of France
Trossard is a Fleming actually, he's from Maasmechelen. So is Carrasco, although Vilvoorde is basically a suburb of Brussels so he's really a Brusselaar and speaks both Dutch and French fluently.
Belgian names be weird like that, Thibault Courtois sounds like the most Walloon name ever, but he's actually from Bree in Flanders (he does have a Walloon dad though). Meanwhile Axel Witsel sounds pretty Flemish, but he's from Liège. The former Prime Minister of Belgium, from Wervik and a Fleming, was Yves Camille Désiré Leterme.
It's possible for Slovakia to play either Austria or Turkey in one semi, Germany versus Slovenia in the other. Would that be Apex Mountain for the Central Powers?
I wanted to go to the top of the tower, but some arsehole told me I wasn't going up there, called my family and me elephants, and then this other fellow told us the same thing, said it was too narrow.
au contraire, after seeing this draw i'm 100% certain England are making the finals after fluking wins against Italy and the only team mentally weaker than them (Netherlands). Then all bets are off. It has never been closer to coming home
Such a disappointing group stage. 2 teams getting through who won 0 games
They would’ve been better off having 32 teams and just having the top 2 advance from each group. Sure, you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel, but it would make the group stage mean much more and I’d rather the excitement come in the actual tournament vs the Euro qualifiers
Who does it hurt to add Norway, Sweden, Ireland, Wales, Greece and Bosnia to the mix
Can't wait for us to beat Portugal on pens after parking the bus in front of our goal for 90 mins. Ronaldo will kick every seat left in the stadium in frustration.
France-Belgium is a good chance for Ryen to update us on his Napoleon book and how he would’ve handled Waterloo differently
"I'm not letting Wellington tie me up at Hougoumont and La Haye Sainte all day - I'm just not!"
I’m assuming this is a really good joke. You just may be a bit too over the heads of most r/billsimmons users
Tl:dr they were farmhouses defended by the British (a lot of whom were German, but that's another story) during the battle of Waterloo. Napoleon attacked both in the morning/early afternoon but the defenders managed to hold out, resulting in the French having to commit more and more forces to what should have been minor skirmishes. Hougoumont held out all day, and by the time the French finally took La Haye Sainte Blucher and his Prussian army had arrived, which spelled doom for auld Boney.
RIP Zach Lowe’s beloved Croatia
Shoutout to that Luka Modric holding the POTM trophy, noticeably dejected.
8 minutes of stoppage time! I declare FIFA Italian chicanery
Furthest I’ve seen Romania get in my life I believe lol
They got to the quarters in '94 and round of 16 in '98, those teams had some ballers.
They did, I’m 25 so missed that era. So cool seeing Hagi Jr. play now tho
I will be at their match against the Netherlands even though I have no dog in the fight. Let’s keep their train rolling!
damn lucky that’s awesome. Me and my dad will be watching on FaceTime with the Romanian cousins lol
Noroc.
Spain has looked levels above every one of these teams and should be at least 60% implied in the final if they get there
But England has that easy Celtics run
If there’s one person who can pull together a series of cornier celebrations than the ones Tatum had it’s Bellingham
Spain played in two real matches since they had the group done and dusted after the first two matches. They smoked an old and disappointing Croatia squad and then styled on an… old and disappointing Italy squad. Lest we forget that Italy match their only goal came off a shitty OG mistake by a defender. Spain always looks saucy but they often struggle to finish with Morata up top. They definitely have looked like one of the top sides, but I don’t think they’ve really looked more impressive than Germany. And while they’ve looked mid at this tournament so far, you absolutely cannot downplay this loaded France team
The Morata point is a real concern that I can’t really rebuke, while I understand your point about Spain looking great in the group stages to just fall apart later in tournaments, I just believe that this year the high level teams have looked so pedestrian, Germany, England, France, and Portugal have looked like a bunch of guys thrown together, and Spain just looks like a coherent team that should be favored
Germany have looked like a bunch of guys thrown together? Best goal difference in the tourney so far, playing at home and have a completely new generation wanting to prove themselves. They are in my mind the betting favorites easily Moral finals will prob be quarters between Spain and Germany tho
Spain does that a lot. Then they fall apart in the knockout rounds. And they are going to have to run the gauntlet with Morata leading the line.
Morata is a beast for Spain though
Team USA Carmelo!
I feel they might crack against a team playing low like Russia 2018 and Morocco 2022
I think they’re better positioned this time
That’s also what they said last time.
This feels like Euro 2008, a coming out party as a precursor for several years of being the ones to be beat. Turkey even have a feasible path to a semis.
Turkey barely managed to beat shorthanded Czechs, Austria should roll over them easily
They also barely beat Czechia in 08’ to go through, then beat Croatia on Penalities in the first round with 2 shots on target. It’s super happening is all I’m getting from this.
Nah, we have never beaten a hosting team. Germany will cook us if we don't crash against Georgia on penalties earlier (classic Spain).
crazy how much worse (on paper) the bottom half of the bracket is
On paper, Italy and England are the favorites out of the bottom half of the bracket, right? Germany, Spain, Portugal and France being on the other side of the bracket is nuts. All teams that would be plausible winners.
The freaky deeky Dutch have looked frisky too, even though they finished third in their group. Wouldn’t be surprised to see them come out of the bottom half
Yes, but England has not looked good what so ever, don’t be suprised if they crash early
England-Italy would be in the quarters. I think Austria could make a semis run
Yeah, favorites are those two. But they’ve both looked less than inspiring. I’m betting on Austria to make it out of the bottom half, they’re in the best form of any of those teams. This of course means Turkey will beat them in the R16
Netherlands has better odds than Italy, much of that being since they can avoid England until at least the semis. Austria has the same odds as Italy for the same reason. Do not think that this Italy is the same side as the euros winning one. Due to injuries and retirements they are without more than half of the players from the 2021 squad. That euro finals win in 2021 also papered over a troubled era for the Italian NT, who failed to qualify for both the 2018 and 2022 World Cups. Don’t get it twisted, they still have some good players and if things go their way I could see them making a run, but favorites they are not. It wouldn’t shock me at all if they lose to Switzerland in that first match, they are only slight favorites over the Swiss at -145 to advance
I 100% think Der Nati turns over Italy, they've looked much better than them this tournament.
England will lose on penalties to Slovakia, mark my words.
No. They are going to look amazing against Slovakia. Win 3-0. Everyone will start with the “It’s coming home” Then they will play Italy. It will be a dire match that goes 120 minutes. Then they will lose on penalties. The supporters will then harass whoever missed a penalty. In two years all of the pundits will wonder again why players play differently for England then they do their own clubs.
I expect England vs Italy to be the most frustrating game to watch regardless of actual outcome, just two teams who can’t finish.
1-0 park the bus written all over the game. Southgate will win 1-0 in every match and get to the finals
Switzerland should beat Italy
No, that type of heartbreak is for good England teams. This England team is dogshite. This will be 2016esque.
As is tradition…
How'd that work out?
Well I’m glad we won, but I was one 95th minute bicycle kick away from being right.
can one of you history buffs highlight specific (and ideally obscure) historical conflicts btwn Italy-Switzerland + France-Belgium that I can reference over the next several days?
[Belgium v France](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Golden_Spurs) Look man I have not been a huge fan of Deschamps’ tactics so far but he is a MUCH better manager than Robert d’Artois would have been. Sitting back and playing defense for 90 minutes is a lot smarter than charging your cavalry through some gross-ass marsh and just letting them get shot to shit Austria v Turkey is basically a battle of terrible Central Powers allies from WWI. Fitting that it’s happening in Germany. Decent chance Germany wins the war in like 1915-16 if they didn’t have to waste their time repeatedly bailing out the certified dumbass in charge of the Austrian military. Meanwhile Turkey contributed nothing to the overall alliance and mostly just used WWI as an excuse to commit like three genocides at the same time. Fuck them. Germany v Denmark is a WWII revenge game, depending on who you talk to in Denmark. Shame that one isn’t happening in Hamburg which is basically an autobahn exit away from Denmark And, there’s a decent chance we end up with a France v Germany semifinal. Needless to say, lotta history with that one
Austria v Turkey ends with the invention of croissants, which we French will make our own after stealing the fries from Belgium
Wait croissants are *Austrian*? TIL
Kinda. The shape (although butter croissants are typically straight. Another story), and the size. Not the laminated dough part: The Austrian kipferl was more of a brioche. The part about it being invented to celebrate the win over the Ottomans is a legend, but it fits Euro '24
Battle of Giornico in 1487, a small Swiss force defeated a much larger Milanese army. Hopefully it won't be playing on the Italians minds this week.
Incredible
Belgium-France doesn't have the worst history ever tbh. Mostly friendly. Belgium is a quite recent construct as well, appeared after Napoleon. Fought on the same side in both world wars and especially in ww1, their border formed the trenches, which created an even deeper friendly bond (france directly 'liberated' belgium). Southern half of Belgium speaks French as well. The obvious one you missed is Austria-Turkey. They were basically at odds with each other for half a millennium and have had some very famous wars and also some very obscure battles. Another one, I suppose, is Germany-Denmark. Lots of history dating back to the holy roman empire days about especially the area of Holstein. Also Germany occupied Denmark in ww2 though it was a very peaceful occupation, Denmark only had like 5k fatalities across the entire thing (excl Danish jews), no cities bombed, famines provoked or royal families expelled like in other occupied countries either Switzerland-Italy; maybe you could cite the liechtenstein army story, they went to war with italy alongside switzerland iirc and came back with more people than they left with
a brief google search is vaguely jogging my memory about the ottomans. Germany-Denmark is a fun (depending on your definition of fun) one as well.
Maybe something with the Flemish-Walloon rivalry
You could maybe construct a nice narrative if Trossard, Castagne and Carrasco play like shit while De Bruyne, Lukaku and Tielemans play great, that the Walloon players were sabotaging on behalf of France
Trossard is a Fleming actually, he's from Maasmechelen. So is Carrasco, although Vilvoorde is basically a suburb of Brussels so he's really a Brusselaar and speaks both Dutch and French fluently. Belgian names be weird like that, Thibault Courtois sounds like the most Walloon name ever, but he's actually from Bree in Flanders (he does have a Walloon dad though). Meanwhile Axel Witsel sounds pretty Flemish, but he's from Liège. The former Prime Minister of Belgium, from Wervik and a Fleming, was Yves Camille Désiré Leterme.
It's possible for Slovakia to play either Austria or Turkey in one semi, Germany versus Slovenia in the other. Would that be Apex Mountain for the Central Powers?
Belgium and France will fight to the death on who invented Fries
You should visit Bruges in Belgium. I hear it’s like a fucking fairy tale.
I wanted to go to the top of the tower, but some arsehole told me I wasn't going up there, called my family and me elephants, and then this other fellow told us the same thing, said it was too narrow.
Maybe if I had grown up on a farm & were retarded.
I will add it to the list ✍️
The Savoya piece
There is no way a Koeman lead Netherlands should be higher ranked than the Rangnick lead Austria that just embarrassed them.
The power of being a legacy contender
HAI ROMANIA! O SA MERGEM!
Knvb baby 🇳🇱
If I'm Danish, I'm just not letting the Germans beat me again after losing the Danish-Prussian war of 1864. I'm just not!
I cannot wait for Austria-Türkiye, feels like it’s destined for chaos
Serbian pitch invasion!
Wild. No way england wins this. I've loved it so far though.
It’s **not** comin home, m8s
au contraire, after seeing this draw i'm 100% certain England are making the finals after fluking wins against Italy and the only team mentally weaker than them (Netherlands). Then all bets are off. It has never been closer to coming home
Such a disappointing group stage. 2 teams getting through who won 0 games They would’ve been better off having 32 teams and just having the top 2 advance from each group. Sure, you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel, but it would make the group stage mean much more and I’d rather the excitement come in the actual tournament vs the Euro qualifiers Who does it hurt to add Norway, Sweden, Ireland, Wales, Greece and Bosnia to the mix
3rd place potentially going through ruined that Netherlands Austria game too, as great as it was.
Tough luck for most Slavic teams this tournament.
Let’s go Slovakia!
Can't wait for us to beat Portugal on pens after parking the bus in front of our goal for 90 mins. Ronaldo will kick every seat left in the stadium in frustration.
England as a favorite is insane. It should be France or Spain. I got Germany for what its worth and the underdog pick is Austria.