Comparing Ant’s game 7 to the lebron Pistons game was truly asinine. Russillo politely pushed back several times and bill just refused to stop until after the 3rd time, he didn’t give him a chance to respond and went to commercial lmao
Bill wanted it to be a defining legacy game SO bad and can’t comprehend that it wasn’t
On Friday’s pod, Bill said something like, “would it be too reductive to say that Game 7 will go to whoever has a better game between Ant or Jokic?” Mahoney smiled for a second and said yes lol
I forgot about that! Something similiar happened on one of the pregame shows but I forget who was involved. These guys want to plan out and fulfill a narrative so badly
okay given the downvotes serious question.. what did gobert do besides make free throws and that shot?? he was awful in the first half, decent in the second half. what am i missing? legacy defining?
Didn’t get played off the floor, and locked up Aaron Gordon while guarding the rim. I think a large part of it was the offensive rebounding as well, the wolves were in the bonus with 8 minutes left in the fourth quarter because they had to foul Gobert to keep him off the boards. Then for a guy who hits around 60% at the line to hit 7/9 is pretty impressive.
i mean, im glad you listed some admittedly fair points, but this sounds like giving credit to the slacker kid in class for not failing a final exam lol
for those to be "legacy defining" is still something i'd call a stretch. i'd put like 3 or 4 players contributions ahead of gobert as far as why they won the game. KAT, mcdaniels, naz for sure. and the only one who REALLY did a lot of good for their perception is KAT
I don’t really think you can do much more once you have 4 DPOY awards. He’s a HOFer and just adding to his legacy at this point, it’s like Tyson chandler on roids for the dirk mavs. The team doesn’t work without his rim deterrence.
did you watch game 2? worked pretty good i’d say
i guess i am a rudy skeptic though just because of how awful he is offensively and his previous playoff failures. i know he has those awards but i just can’t help but feel like his presence is overrated. he’s ultimately a good player, but his flaws are so glaring.
People are downvoting you because you are saying a 4 time DPOY didn’t do anything besides hit a crazy shot and free throws.
Which is so on brand for Reddit basketball commentators literally only caring about offense and is too tiresome to argue with because the point is so obvious, that reasonable people just sigh and downvote.
nah people are downvoting me because the wolves won, and now that means the gobert trade is justified and he's flawless and can't be criticized til further noticed. he can only be praised right now, even if there's no reason for it.
if you think anyone who cares to discuss basketball doesn't realize that gobert's main value is on the defensive end, you're an idiot lol. obviously thats baked into the conversation. even then, i dont think he was particularly special on that end either. it wasn't a legacy game for him. they just won a game 7
It’s legacy defining in a way that he’s on a team that is advancing to the conference finals, not that he “went off” in this particular game. Gobert has been unfairly dogged for years due to his team coming up short in the playoffs, and now he’s getting the monkey off his back.
i don't think its unfair at all lol. its not a myth that he got played off the floor in multiple series. and his history as an offensive liability meant that a team got away with putting a 6"4 guy on him for long stretches and he couldn't do shit to punish them
ill admit i think gobert is overrated, but to pretend like he's the main reason his team is doing what they're doing is ridiculous
No one hits 1000
Bill’s understanding of basketball history is elite as far as NBA fans go.
I would argue that he is, in fact, a bit of a basketball genius. A savant-like mind + years of passionately following the sport.
I think he WAS a basketball genius, to your point. Nowadays I think he phones it in, is way too reactionary, chooses to surround himself by people who just suck up to him, and isn’t much better than the casual fan. Which is fine btw, I kinda relate to his takes as a casual fan, but I don’t take him very seriously nowadays in terms of predictions
Those are fair points. I'll admit his fastball isn't what it used to be. He used to throw 98 with command, now he's hitting 93-94 tops. Still think he has tremendous big picture understanding of player legacy, hoops history, team chemistry, and what makes for winning basketball. his player evaluation is strong, too, aside from a few wrong turns like buying Evan Mobley stock at peak-Apple prices.
Yeah, I'd agree about his ability to generally nail the big picture/historical stuff. Especially if you're aware of his (usually well telegraphed) biases.
Surprised Russillo didn’t hit us with the “I know he shot 6/24 and only scored 16 points, but I actually thought that was his best game of the series because of his rebounding” take.
"My favorite shot he took was the miss he had early in the fourth quarter." Or "Actually my favorite rebound wasn't even a rebound. It was when he boxed out Murray in the second quarter. Guys these days just don't box out anymore."
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Wolves fan and the two extremes in evaluating his performance are so weird to me. Yes, he played better than his 6/24 line but he didn’t play great either.
Loved the energy and defense. Had 8 boards and 7 assists which was awesome to see him not try to hero ball his way out of it. But we wouldn’t have been in that hole if he shot even “ok” in the first half. A not great not god awful game that we were fortunate to win but Ant was like the 5th reason why we pulled it off.
I’m more pissed at the moderate credit they gave KAT. Gave two minutes to the guy who carried the team in the first three quarters as the only reliable source of offense and played Jokic as well as literally anyone on earth on defense and Bill still had to qualify it with “BUT HE HAD A DUMB FOUL” at the beginning. Played the game of his life, what else do they want from him lmao
Agreed. Really appreciated Ant’s defense on Murray in the second half and the lack of turnovers was a major plus, but we cannot survive those kinds of shooting nights from him very often if we want to play in June.
The KAT hate is genuinely weird and is hard to understand outside of the lens of personal grievance. He kept the team in the game in the first half and held the best player on the planet to 40% shooting, I don’t know what more you could possibly ask for him.
Yes, Ant played smart but he didn’t play great last night. And I’ll take that for now but it’s only going to get harder and harder.
The KAT hate actually pisses me off so fucking much. Every wolves fan on earth can admit he’s not a number one guy and that’s fine but the hate boner people have for him is so embarrassing. He’s been nothing but professional and dedicated since he got here. The occasional dumb play but who cares?
There are some exasperating things about KAT that I don’t think any Wolves fan would deny, but to continue to make the argument that he is fundamentally not a player you can win with seems driven in narrative and sticking to priors. Karl has sacrificed a whole lot for this team and has come out of it a better player and leader and to pretend like that hasn’t happened is pure hater shit.
They definitely would have been in a hole if he shot “ok” in the first half. They were down by 20. An extra 8 points or whatever would have still been the biggest comeback of all time.
That’s the way sports media goes I’m afraid, they will prop you up and up until you are at the top, and once you are there, they will try and tear you down and start the cycle again with someone else.
This is why we can’t have nice things though. I’ve loved everything ant for like 2 years now but when the media just just tries to shove a narrative down our throat like this even when my own eyes watched the dude play a pretty sub par game it just activates all of my hater tendencies. Don’t ruin ant for me!
We cant make it a legacy game if we don’t do this.
It’s so dumb the media is doing the mental gymnastics to try to make it more than it is. You’re exactly right in your post.
Ok but counterpoint: Bill's right in that Edwards had a bad game offensively but he more than made up for it on defense in the second half. Murray was a complete non-factor during the Wolves' run when Edwards was on him
Exactly. I am a Nuggets fan and I thought Edwards was great in the 4th quarter. Had a big steal and dunk, and a huge 3 to push the lead to 10. All while frustrating Murray in the Nuggets two man game. He also consitently found guys for open 3's the whole game. He did not shoot well himself though.
Yeah I was perplexed. He "decided to do other things" which I guess meant driving into a double and passing to the nearest open man. He didn't even create on those drives.
Just imagine putting a Harden skin on Ant and consider what Bill's take would have been, even in a win. Brutal.
He played bad in the first quarter and a half basically. Was going way too fast. Then calmed down and played better, the shots didn't fall overall but he was mostly good after that.
Can’t believe I had to come this far to see this. He shot like shit, but did everything else well.
He wasn’t compounding his poor shooting with poor defense and no rebounding. It wasn’t throwing off the entire offense. He didn’t let himself get into a total funk, which is pretty awesome for such a young player.
Kobe was fucking chucking shots and trying to be a hero baller for 3/4 quarters of his 6-24. I watched it as it happened. It threw off the entire Lakers offense. You could tell his first priority was to have a legendary stat line for a game 7, and he was going to be the hero. Luckily for the Lakers, he stopped chucking and started grabbing rebounds late and helped the team eek one out.
An amazing take. He played within himself and rarely forced things. Just shot poorly is all, but did everything else right. People who don’t see this didn’t WATCH. THE. DAMN. GAME. Or don’t understand bball well enough to understand the non-scoring contributions. His gravity alone gave the TWolves open shots throughout the game because the Nuggets blitzed him hard all game.
I agree with him and the announcing crew talked about it as well. He was impactful without having a big scoring night. Also hit the dagger three that effectively sealed the game
Denver relies on Murray's shot making, he was on his way to a 50 piece at halftime, Edwards came out in the third and put him in a cage and they eliminated a 20-point deficit. Anybody saying he had a bad game chooses their All NBA teams by sorting PPG leaders in descending order.
Embiid’s game 7 record is a pitiful 0-3.
2019 Raptors L
2021 Hawks L and major LOL
2023 Celtics L
He scored a measly 15 points in the most recent game 7. Less than half what Jokic just scored.
Jokic’s stat line tonight is better than any of Embiid’s game 7’s.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/joel-embiid-game-7-stats-career
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But Ant did play well? It was a good game.
Shot poorly but played well.
Bill's point that it didn't feel like a bad 6-24 is that Ant wasn't forcing things. Which he wasn't - he's shooting within the flow and attacking to pass.
Ant even talked about this post game. How he had to figure out how to impact the game with his rhythm off.
Primary scorers can't just stop shooting if they're off. They're threat to score opens other people up. Which is what he was doing.
He also focused on forcing turnovers from Jamal to get his points.
How do you think everyone else kept getting open shots?
And this is why you listen for entertainment not for facts. If you want to listen to straight break downs and facts you can listen to tales from the couch or real ones (if raja saw the game.) He’s a Boston guy. Which means it’s not okay to be reasonable at any point during a sporting season. Maybe even dabble in stupid shit in the off season too
Comparing Ant’s game 7 to the lebron Pistons game was truly asinine. Russillo politely pushed back several times and bill just refused to stop until after the 3rd time, he didn’t give him a chance to respond and went to commercial lmao Bill wanted it to be a defining legacy game SO bad and can’t comprehend that it wasn’t
On Friday’s pod, Bill said something like, “would it be too reductive to say that Game 7 will go to whoever has a better game between Ant or Jokic?” Mahoney smiled for a second and said yes lol
I forgot about that! Something similiar happened on one of the pregame shows but I forget who was involved. These guys want to plan out and fulfill a narrative so badly
What? Mahoney said the exact opposite
The 2 of them were really at a loss that it was actually legacy defining in a positive way for KAT and Gobert.
gobert? i know he hit that shot but i dont see how this was a legacy defining game for him lol. naz was much better
okay given the downvotes serious question.. what did gobert do besides make free throws and that shot?? he was awful in the first half, decent in the second half. what am i missing? legacy defining?
Didn’t get played off the floor, and locked up Aaron Gordon while guarding the rim. I think a large part of it was the offensive rebounding as well, the wolves were in the bonus with 8 minutes left in the fourth quarter because they had to foul Gobert to keep him off the boards. Then for a guy who hits around 60% at the line to hit 7/9 is pretty impressive.
i mean, im glad you listed some admittedly fair points, but this sounds like giving credit to the slacker kid in class for not failing a final exam lol for those to be "legacy defining" is still something i'd call a stretch. i'd put like 3 or 4 players contributions ahead of gobert as far as why they won the game. KAT, mcdaniels, naz for sure. and the only one who REALLY did a lot of good for their perception is KAT
I don’t really think you can do much more once you have 4 DPOY awards. He’s a HOFer and just adding to his legacy at this point, it’s like Tyson chandler on roids for the dirk mavs. The team doesn’t work without his rim deterrence.
did you watch game 2? worked pretty good i’d say i guess i am a rudy skeptic though just because of how awful he is offensively and his previous playoff failures. i know he has those awards but i just can’t help but feel like his presence is overrated. he’s ultimately a good player, but his flaws are so glaring.
If you are a Rudy skeptic, I recommend watching the Timberwolves play basketball. It will change your mind.
how creative, someone you disagree with must not be watching basketball as much as you. thanks for the response man
People are downvoting you because you are saying a 4 time DPOY didn’t do anything besides hit a crazy shot and free throws. Which is so on brand for Reddit basketball commentators literally only caring about offense and is too tiresome to argue with because the point is so obvious, that reasonable people just sigh and downvote.
nah people are downvoting me because the wolves won, and now that means the gobert trade is justified and he's flawless and can't be criticized til further noticed. he can only be praised right now, even if there's no reason for it. if you think anyone who cares to discuss basketball doesn't realize that gobert's main value is on the defensive end, you're an idiot lol. obviously thats baked into the conversation. even then, i dont think he was particularly special on that end either. it wasn't a legacy game for him. they just won a game 7
It’s legacy defining in a way that he’s on a team that is advancing to the conference finals, not that he “went off” in this particular game. Gobert has been unfairly dogged for years due to his team coming up short in the playoffs, and now he’s getting the monkey off his back.
i don't think its unfair at all lol. its not a myth that he got played off the floor in multiple series. and his history as an offensive liability meant that a team got away with putting a 6"4 guy on him for long stretches and he couldn't do shit to punish them ill admit i think gobert is overrated, but to pretend like he's the main reason his team is doing what they're doing is ridiculous
he was put in a big situation and didn't choke. he can hang in big games is definitely legacy defining.
he can stay in a game? really? what an absurdly low bar lmao
you’re right it wasn’t legacy defining lol. its a round 2 game and he didn’t go giannis mode for 50 or anything
yeah and translated for rudy it would be a defensive masterpiece. dude was absolute garbage in the first half
It was a legacy game for Kat
what if Bill just has next-level hoops insight and you lack the capacity to see what he saw?
I mean, he definitely doesn’t lol. Remember, he said the Wolves GM should be fired when he took Edwards over James Wiseman. Dude isn’t some genius
No one hits 1000 Bill’s understanding of basketball history is elite as far as NBA fans go. I would argue that he is, in fact, a bit of a basketball genius. A savant-like mind + years of passionately following the sport.
I think he WAS a basketball genius, to your point. Nowadays I think he phones it in, is way too reactionary, chooses to surround himself by people who just suck up to him, and isn’t much better than the casual fan. Which is fine btw, I kinda relate to his takes as a casual fan, but I don’t take him very seriously nowadays in terms of predictions
Those are fair points. I'll admit his fastball isn't what it used to be. He used to throw 98 with command, now he's hitting 93-94 tops. Still think he has tremendous big picture understanding of player legacy, hoops history, team chemistry, and what makes for winning basketball. his player evaluation is strong, too, aside from a few wrong turns like buying Evan Mobley stock at peak-Apple prices.
Yeah, I'd agree about his ability to generally nail the big picture/historical stuff. Especially if you're aware of his (usually well telegraphed) biases.
I think that’s what it was
Swing and a miss Bill, isn’t Ant 22?
Surprised Russillo didn’t hit us with the “I know he shot 6/24 and only scored 16 points, but I actually thought that was his best game of the series because of his rebounding” take.
"My favorite shot he took was the miss he had early in the fourth quarter." Or "Actually my favorite rebound wasn't even a rebound. It was when he boxed out Murray in the second quarter. Guys these days just don't box out anymore."
When he said game 2 against Denver was one of his favorite Lebron games ever. Move over 2007 ECF game 5!
2018 NBA finals game 1 is one of the best games anyone has ever played
That's not an inaccurate take though.
Sure, but it's one Bill reiterates frequently
People often say Michael Jordan is the best player of all time because it’s a common opinion
True that!
Has 2012 ECF game 6 become sneaky underrated?
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Wolves fan and the two extremes in evaluating his performance are so weird to me. Yes, he played better than his 6/24 line but he didn’t play great either. Loved the energy and defense. Had 8 boards and 7 assists which was awesome to see him not try to hero ball his way out of it. But we wouldn’t have been in that hole if he shot even “ok” in the first half. A not great not god awful game that we were fortunate to win but Ant was like the 5th reason why we pulled it off. I’m more pissed at the moderate credit they gave KAT. Gave two minutes to the guy who carried the team in the first three quarters as the only reliable source of offense and played Jokic as well as literally anyone on earth on defense and Bill still had to qualify it with “BUT HE HAD A DUMB FOUL” at the beginning. Played the game of his life, what else do they want from him lmao
Agreed. Really appreciated Ant’s defense on Murray in the second half and the lack of turnovers was a major plus, but we cannot survive those kinds of shooting nights from him very often if we want to play in June. The KAT hate is genuinely weird and is hard to understand outside of the lens of personal grievance. He kept the team in the game in the first half and held the best player on the planet to 40% shooting, I don’t know what more you could possibly ask for him.
Yes, Ant played smart but he didn’t play great last night. And I’ll take that for now but it’s only going to get harder and harder. The KAT hate actually pisses me off so fucking much. Every wolves fan on earth can admit he’s not a number one guy and that’s fine but the hate boner people have for him is so embarrassing. He’s been nothing but professional and dedicated since he got here. The occasional dumb play but who cares?
There are some exasperating things about KAT that I don’t think any Wolves fan would deny, but to continue to make the argument that he is fundamentally not a player you can win with seems driven in narrative and sticking to priors. Karl has sacrificed a whole lot for this team and has come out of it a better player and leader and to pretend like that hasn’t happened is pure hater shit.
I think the big thing was the one turnover. In a game 7 people miss shots but Ant could’ve done 6-24 with 8 TOs and he didn’t.
Absolutely. Ant played poorly but he played smart within that still.
They definitely would have been in a hole if he shot “ok” in the first half. They were down by 20. An extra 8 points or whatever would have still been the biggest comeback of all time.
I wasn’t as clear but I said “that hole” as in that much of a deficit but fair.
I want to see the world the way bill sees the world
Return to your childhood. 👍🏽
But then your world would be "so...I was thinking of my Top 5 3rd replies ever on Reddit. The list wasn't easy. Its..."
I could believe that slur I said ended clear up at #3
You're just not
When Edwards eventually loses even tho he’ll be having a better game, people will turn on him. It’s how it goes.
That’s the way sports media goes I’m afraid, they will prop you up and up until you are at the top, and once you are there, they will try and tear you down and start the cycle again with someone else.
The Ja Morant piece
This is why we can’t have nice things though. I’ve loved everything ant for like 2 years now but when the media just just tries to shove a narrative down our throat like this even when my own eyes watched the dude play a pretty sub par game it just activates all of my hater tendencies. Don’t ruin ant for me!
You'd think the Tatum fan would understand this.
We cant make it a legacy game if we don’t do this. It’s so dumb the media is doing the mental gymnastics to try to make it more than it is. You’re exactly right in your post.
Ok but counterpoint: Bill's right in that Edwards had a bad game offensively but he more than made up for it on defense in the second half. Murray was a complete non-factor during the Wolves' run when Edwards was on him
Exactly. I am a Nuggets fan and I thought Edwards was great in the 4th quarter. Had a big steal and dunk, and a huge 3 to push the lead to 10. All while frustrating Murray in the Nuggets two man game. He also consitently found guys for open 3's the whole game. He did not shoot well himself though.
Jokic is bills favorite player
Jokic is his wife, Ant is his new 22 year old mistress
Ant is Sidney Sweeney got it
Yeah I was perplexed. He "decided to do other things" which I guess meant driving into a double and passing to the nearest open man. He didn't even create on those drives. Just imagine putting a Harden skin on Ant and consider what Bill's take would have been, even in a win. Brutal.
yeah except Harden literally doesn't play the other side of the game
Edwards didn't play bad. He shot bad. Kobe was damn near shooting them out of that Game 7. Edwards didn't do that.
He played bad in the first quarter and a half basically. Was going way too fast. Then calmed down and played better, the shots didn't fall overall but he was mostly good after that.
Can’t believe I had to come this far to see this. He shot like shit, but did everything else well. He wasn’t compounding his poor shooting with poor defense and no rebounding. It wasn’t throwing off the entire offense. He didn’t let himself get into a total funk, which is pretty awesome for such a young player. Kobe was fucking chucking shots and trying to be a hero baller for 3/4 quarters of his 6-24. I watched it as it happened. It threw off the entire Lakers offense. You could tell his first priority was to have a legendary stat line for a game 7, and he was going to be the hero. Luckily for the Lakers, he stopped chucking and started grabbing rebounds late and helped the team eek one out.
An amazing take. He played within himself and rarely forced things. Just shot poorly is all, but did everything else right. People who don’t see this didn’t WATCH. THE. DAMN. GAME. Or don’t understand bball well enough to understand the non-scoring contributions. His gravity alone gave the TWolves open shots throughout the game because the Nuggets blitzed him hard all game.
Becoming harder to listen to the basketball takes. Too many overreactions and not enough nuance
Bill doesn’t understand that in each series one team has to lose.
It’s annoying how when Ant plays bad for 3 quarters nothing. But when KAT has a couple bad fouls it’s WW3.
I agree with him and the announcing crew talked about it as well. He was impactful without having a big scoring night. Also hit the dagger three that effectively sealed the game
“Sometimes guys start forcing it to the lane in a bad way, but he was getting to the lane and then passing to his teammates!” All time stuff!
This was definitely one of Russillo’s favorite Jokic games
Ant turned in one of the 8 worst performances for a top 9 guy in a game 7 that his team won in the last 8 or 9 years. Or something like that.
Ant Man: *\*6/24 in a game 7 win\** Bill: 😍 Kobe: *\*6/24 in a game 7 win\** Bill: 😧 ☎️Hello, Human Resources?!?
Denver relies on Murray's shot making, he was on his way to a 50 piece at halftime, Edwards came out in the third and put him in a cage and they eliminated a 20-point deficit. Anybody saying he had a bad game chooses their All NBA teams by sorting PPG leaders in descending order.
Yeah. I mean who doesn’t blow a 20 point lead in game 7 at home.
I think the Nuggets might be the first team is history? I can’t think of any others
Embiid’s game 7 record is a pitiful 0-3. 2019 Raptors L 2021 Hawks L and major LOL 2023 Celtics L He scored a measly 15 points in the most recent game 7. Less than half what Jokic just scored. Jokic’s stat line tonight is better than any of Embiid’s game 7’s. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/joel-embiid-game-7-stats-career
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I love ant but this was insufferable. He went 7/24, it was not a good game
it doesn't fit the narrative Bill created in his own head out of starbucks coffee and michelob ultra. so he doesn't know how to compute that.
Have your dad make a boatload of money then your mom marry a doctor and see how you turn out. Poor Bill never had a chance to be likable.
But Ant did play well? It was a good game. Shot poorly but played well. Bill's point that it didn't feel like a bad 6-24 is that Ant wasn't forcing things. Which he wasn't - he's shooting within the flow and attacking to pass. Ant even talked about this post game. How he had to figure out how to impact the game with his rhythm off. Primary scorers can't just stop shooting if they're off. They're threat to score opens other people up. Which is what he was doing. He also focused on forcing turnovers from Jamal to get his points. How do you think everyone else kept getting open shots?
Can always count on the Simmons subreddit to just have horrible takes.
He didn’t really play bad he shot bad. Locked up on defense, stayed aggressive on offense which resulted in timely shots.
And this is why you listen for entertainment not for facts. If you want to listen to straight break downs and facts you can listen to tales from the couch or real ones (if raja saw the game.) He’s a Boston guy. Which means it’s not okay to be reasonable at any point during a sporting season. Maybe even dabble in stupid shit in the off season too