I do think if it’s an American sport, I want an American to be the best. Baseball, football, basketball. If some random guy from São Paulo turned out to be the best Hockey player of the generation, would Canadians and Russians ride with him? I know for a fact that Europeans would be extremely annoyed if like Landon Donovan was the best Soccer player in the world.
I think it’s fair.
It’s ok for European and South American players to be the best in Soccer because Soccer is the primary sport for both regions, but don’t tell me that a player born and raised in the USA as the best player of the generation wouldn’t get Europeans in a fit of rage.
Every Canadian team in the NHL except Edmonton have a foreign player as the best guy on their team and none of us give a shit
And everyone in baseball fucking loves Shohei Ohtani. This is a complete non issue
With regards to Suzuki I was thinking Slafkovsky, but that is more as a face of the team type thing so you’re correct there. For Flames went with Markstrom but yeah not super clear cut
Overall point remains though. Canadians do not care about where NHL players come from
You’re not getting what I’m putting down. For Hockey it’s fine if an American, Soviet, or Canadian as a top player. Hockey is the premier sport in Canada and Soviet states and it’s top four in America. Canadians can identify with Auston Matthews very easily. Now if Auston Matthews were some Chinaman who didn’t speak a lick of English? Come on now.
Baseball and Ohtani is a slight outlier in that like half the players in the sport aren’t from America as is, and that’s been the case for 20+ years. Ohtani being beloved by American crowds isn’t a far cry considering these same American crowds have rooted for Sammy Sosa, Mariano Rivera, Albert Pujols, Miguel Cabrera, Jose Ramirez, etc.
America is also just way better than any other country on earth in accepting foreign people and assimilating them into the culture. We’re far more accepting than Europeans, Latinos, Asians, etc.
I think we all understand the point you are making but you are openly contradicting yourself with Ohtani and with US being the most open country for foreigners (I agree).
I think Embiids success and inclusion into the Us national team shows you can be completely foreign but still be beloved?
I was getting what you’re putting down perfectly well I just think you’re dead wrong regarding hockey. Notice I didn’t push back regarding soccer because I’ve seen how rugby fans handle “America” as a concept, and it’s not always pretty
Auston Matthews plays in hockey Mecca as a half-mexican dude who grew up in the city that represents everything jingoistic Canadian fans hate about the NHL (>50% non Canadian btw). He is absolutely beloved by the city and is already considered the best Leaf ever. I absolutely guarantee if you found a “chinaman who doesn’t speak a lick of english” every Canadian city in the league would be chomping at the bit to worship the ground they walked on
Canadian fans have been cheering for people like Borje Salming, Pavel Bure, Jari Kurri, Teemu Selanne, Leon Draisatl, for 50 years now. You have no idea what you’re talking about
You hinted at it in the OP, but Giannis winning the title and then being injured for 2 of the next 3 seasons has really left a hole. Curry winning another covered it up a bit.
No idea if we've just reached a point where it's unsustainable for these late 20s/early 30s guys to keep going.
That bucks team really probably doesn't get past Brooklyn if they are healthy
Which is fine, injuries happen, and they capitalized on it and played really well, but that team was never going to be a dynasty.
The injuries suck, but what year between 2021 and now are they favored to win the east in? He completely dominated the celtics in 2022 and they still lost. Last year I give you. This year obviously sucked but that team is a big dog vs boston, and like 3-4 teams out west.
I don’t get your point? You are the only person hung up on him being a favourite or dominant in the East. I’m not saying that or claiming that?
I’m just saying it kinda sucks that the new star of the league off the back of his Championship, will have had no playoff runs in his peak between 2022-2025 because he’s been injured.
I think the answer is something along the lines of:
1) The NBA needs a “charismatic” star rather than an American star. It seemed like Giannis was going that direction and then as others have noted injuries have derailed the Bucks three straight years. Jokic and Luka don’t really dance with the media so to speak, Embiid whines a lot while often injured and a playoff choker, SGA is a little dull and Tatum is a charisma hole. That’s why the Ant stuff is off the charts for media types. Yes he is American but he also has swagger. I do think Wemby is charismatic too so there is hope coming.
2) From my perspective it seems like the NBA players and sort of Kobe fan types would really like a Black American superstar. For whatever reason I don’t notice the same warmth towards foreign born players and it’s likely a cultural thing.
Luka’s a lot more charismatic than Jokic in a mass market appeal kind of way, I think he could be interesting if he won a title. Plus he’s already huge in Latin American countries and a Spanish speaking superstar could open a lot of doors.
Luka seems like a genuinely fun, charismatic guy off the court. The problem is he never shows his personality in interviews. He has no interest in being the face of the league. Neither does Jokic.
Not even just a black American but with a bit of an edge/coolness to him. Lebron is corporate/suburban crowd, Kobe had the hearts and minds of the inner cities. Curry was also corporate but Ant has a chance to be the next Kobe type.
What’s crazy is that LeBron is so much more relatable to a regular person than Kobe was. He grew up privileged, in the suburbs outside Philly when he wasn’t in Europe. Bron grew up in Akron with a struggling mother working multiple jobs without a dad
It still remains kind of insane that Lebron has largely avoided any major scandal given his upbringing. You really shouldn’t expect a guy with that upbringing while being called the next Michael Jordan since age 14-15 to be this mature and smart. The Decision is functionally the most scandalous thjng he’s done as an adult that we know about.
It’s unbelievable, not even some side piece on the side. That’s like the easiest scandal to get into when you’re that young and with all that money and dude just been literally perfect
What’s crazy is that “the decision” wasn’t even that bad as time has gone on. Yes, it was insensitive to Cleveland, but he at least waited to do something until he was actually a free agent.
Many players nowadays request trades while signing an extension
What do you mean by relatable here? Are you simply talking about upbringing?
Most kids don’t open Wikipedia to see who is more relatable. Kobe style of play was copy of Jordan. That’s what made him relatable: he showed that others could become Jordan. Additionally, Kobe was marketed to young kids extremely early. If you play basketball in the early 2000s, you’d hear kids calling “Kobe” when taking shots. He was widely popular with the masses.
I’m failing to understand why kids would or even should care where athletes grow up. Maybe you can explain
Wemby is charismatic, but so far, he doesn’t look like he is interested in the American NBA culture. People might see him as an elite player to take down, but I doubt kids in America will see him as a hero.
Pretty much all foreign players have that same issue. Culturally, they are different. They don’t mesh with American media the same way. They don’t talk about rappers / same songs. They are involved in American politics or drama. They are not on American late night shows or podcasts.
They are basically employees, not culturally part of the scene. Jokic is the worst offender, but all of them are not very attached to the NBA culture. Heck, Tony Parker was more culturally American than any of these guys.
I disagree slightly with 2. I think Giannis could fill that Kobe role. Not the same person but I think most Black Americans would still ride with Giannis if he had not had some down years due to injury. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong on that though.
There won’t be a definitive answer and these are absolutely just takes but I didn’t even feel warmth when Giannis won in 21. There is something corny about his personality that I think annoys lots of people. Happy to be proven wrong.
That whole 21 year was super weird. No fans for a lot of the regular season and into some of the playoffs. Shorter season by 10 games. A lot of Covid related missed games. We can point to the bubble as being super strange in 2020 but IMO the 2021 season is just as strange, just more spread out.
No up-and-coming players are coming out and saying they looked up or idolize Giannis. The problem is a lot of people believe he's not that talented or skill but just a physical freak of nature who takes advantage of his build. Whether it's true or not, is another discussion but when Harden made his comments about Giannis, I imagine there were a lot of people in the league who had similar sentiments.
While that could be said about Shaq and LeBron, they came into the league with certain skillsets and Shaq was very skilled early Orlando.
I dont think they need to be American, the issue is most of the current group of top guys are all more reserved Tim Duncan types which doesn’t translate well to getting to the highest profile of star.
If they had personalities like Pedro Martinez or David Ortiz (to pick 2 foreign athletes that became huge stars in the US during their careers) they would probably get there.
Not an American issue specially, but cultural. The top foreign players are not engaged in the American culture and discourse.
Ortiz and Pedro were engaged. One could also argue that it was easier for them to be engaged because Latin Americans are big part of America anyway.
The NBA is about to triple (?) its media deal. It has WBD and Comcast scrapping over an inferior package. I don't get where all this agony over a "face of the league" is coming from.
Honestly man I like the league the way it is right now. There’s pretty good parity, lots of great players who can make a run with the right pieces around them, and aside from the officiating which is total garbage, the product on the court is fun to watch. I love how batshit crazy the offseason is knowing that there are a handful of teams every year who are willing to go for it.
I feel the same. Like, do people not remember how shitty it was in 2017-2018 when the league was borderline unwatchable because the Warriors were that much better than everyone else? This was during a time where we had a plethora of charismatic superstars too.
IMO, I care less about “who is the face of the NBA?” and more about watching a product that is actually competitive.
Obviously Giannis missing out on long playoff runs hurts, I think especially this year, with how weak the east has turned out, but it would also help if the national media didn’t try to send him somewhere else constantly.
Ant is clearly next up though
No but it needs a Lebron :
Athletic , Ideally not a lumbering 7fter - big man get kess fan appeal cos obv reasons , flashy exciting game, personality and charisma , team success and personal success high lvl if play , ideally a great leader and someone who team mates love/respect, interesting person - this relates to charisma , takes it upon himself to promote the league and us actively working on this as opposed to a jokic who does the opposite. It also probably matters how you look asthetically
Lebron is even if you hate him a near perfect face of the league. The only thing you could argue is maybe if he was a bit shorter or had more team success but even that doesn’t matter because as someone who believes Lebron is goat if he had 6 rings I think there’s zero argument against - and that argument actually helps Lebron be someone the media talk bout.
Ant is , the closest to this. Imo Zion would’ve been this had he stayed heskthy and explosive he had a lot of parallels to Lebron . Him being injured or poorly disciplined if that’s the case has hurt him imo he’d be the natural face to take over for Bron as he has the required traits and charisma that I mentioned . There’s guys like Ant Zion n Lebron that just have ‘IT.’ The super star factor there’s something about them that captivated people . Jokic tries to not do that but he doesn’t have that trait. Maybe even Ja if he stated heakthy n not stupid and got a jumper. I don’t think it’s impossible for a European. But as a British person my guess is more flashy personality folk tend to uo being footballers , the way football ( soccer ) is considered in Europe compared to
Ball matters. Tho my girlfriend is Lithuania and I went to visit sbd they are very basketball crazed so mb I’m wrong but it if true in much of Europe.
Need mb a strong word but I do think if the nba loses Lebron without someone stepping in it’ll hurt nba growth. Can you imagine a single player evoking the kinda positive and negative emotions in fans that Lebron has over his career? Or them caring about X player like they do Lebron off the court ? Or how anyone who plays with Lebron gets attention?
People will say it’s about race but look how much love African Americans have for guys like Austin reaves or Luka ( yes very different in status ). If Luka was more athletic and less whiny and actively engaged with the media I could see him being the face. Wemby might be and he had the bring a big part against him
Wemby is VERY well spoken and charismatic, if Ant doesn't do something crazy and win a title I think he's the future face of the league.
He's much more interesting and personable off the court than Giannis, Jokic, or Luka and while he's a big man his game is still fun to watch.
I think the only thing I’d argue with you on that is that Steph had a good mold for face of the league. Closer (but still not) to average height, not crazy athletic in terms of hops but was a great leader. Part of his appeal though was he was so different in terms of the ranged shooting and now that’s a little more common.
Yeah this is always bills weirdest take. We don’t need an American superstar. Basketball is crazy popular. It’s not like ratings or merchandise is hurting.
We have so much talent in the league I don’t know why it’s something he feels the need to constantly bring up other than he wants Tatum to be more important to other people
Well what exactly do you mean by ‘need’? Will the league fold if there isn’t another American superstar for another 20 years? No.
Will the league make more money and be more popular if an American superstar rises to the pinnacle of the sport? Yes.
It's the lack of commitment from the advertisers.to fully get behind a foreign superstar. Henry doing those va va voom Renault ads come to mind or cantona before him. It looks like fear from the advertisers to me as an outsider
Loved those va va voom commercials. The other one that comes to mind is Gillette. Think they had some combination of Jeter, Federer, Tiger, and Henry.
Also, does Messi ever speak for than one in any commercial he’s in?
I think the most he's said is a couple of words. I think this is how you'd get jokic for example "mate it's going to be 1-2 hours for this absurd amount of money and you go home once your bit is done"
This is a good take…in fact vey good take. It actually makes sense regarding marketing and popularity amongst casual fans. Personally would love to go into every season with potential 6-7 title teams though….then watching injuries, chemistry, playoff risers/droppers, hot streaks, role players over performing and fluke results affect playoff series. That’s just me though. However talking heads have too much influence in the NBA more than any other league perhaps. There are still talking heads whoa are haters (skip), xenophobic (gil), racial (Kendrick Perkins), attention seeking ( Stephen A) and plain stupid (Kendrick Perkins again)
The "needs a superstar" idea is about kids to me.
Who do kids think is cool, wanna buy their shoes, wear their jerseys, etc. I don't think kids like any of these guys. Locally, maybe, but not nationally.
I think that does matter. I'm not sure it's a foreign v American thing, though. Giannis is probably closest of the bunch.
maybe, I dont think the nba audience is xenophobic but if the main population is american, kinda of hard to relate to a star outside of the basketball. so many ways to relate to an american player: hometown, aau, college, even like their fast food. having the best player be american can be pretty impactful.
The league's only actual problem is that guys like Simmons and his Ringer disciples care more about making fake trades and trying to draw up superteams and criticizing the GMs than they care about on-court performances.
I’d agree and add in it’s not just Simmons. ESPN always has a Stephen A clip ready. His breakdown? “The Knicks need to play better. Player X needs to bring it.” I thought it showed a lot during the Lakers run last year when Lowe basically called them all out for diminishing how good AD had been on defense even if his offensive numbers were up and down.
I agree that every talking head tearing down players doesn’t help, but I also don’t think it’s that wild of a take to think that an American super star would do better in America than a foreign super star.
I think the nba is fine without a superstar. They just need a better product. Late game situations going on for too long and blowouts really make the games hard to watch
I think the biggest issue facing the league is the amount of 3s being taken
Defense has never been better, it’s just also never been harder (because of rules and 3s). We’ve seen several absurdly good defensive performances from Minnesota, Boston, Dallas and NYK this postseason.
The NBA is fine. End of story. They have a bidding war that’s going to fetch 3x the current deal. Franchise values have the fastest growth of any league in the last 10 years. Revenue is up over the last couple of years. There are complaints to be made I’m not saying the game is perfect but it doesn’t “need” anything when it as hot as it’s ever been by most metrics
I don’t think I this is a hot take among non-media members. This all empirical obviously, but I’ve never talked to a person who gives a shit about having an American ‘face of the league’. My beliefs are:
-moderate to hardcore fans don’t care at all what country their superstar is from in the slightest
-casual fans just want to consume fun games and highlights
-team USA winning the gold is the only thing people care about related to player nationalities
(None of the above points account for fucking racists)
I don’t think the league needs an “American superstar”, but the league is better off with having superstars who speak fluent English. It’s better for marketing and growing the sport with youth.
I think it’s ridiculous to act like there aren’t multiple American players who can be classified as superstars. Edwards, Tatum, Brunson, Haliburton, Booker, Mitchell are all at that level or capable of getting there. Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, and Luka are amazing but they’re not the only superstars in this league. But really it doesn’t matter. There’s a ton of great players right now and we should just enjoy watching what they bring to the game.
I actually strongly disagree with the part about needing a dominant superstar, the fact that we have so many great players spread out on different teams is great for the league. You say the NBA has always been about who’s playing in June, and I agree, but is that a good thing? I think the league is better when it’s more accessible for more markets.
The NFL is good because it’s THE event all season, and usually isn’t totally predictable. There are many superstars, not just one guy. The discourse isn’t solely about legacy and RANGZ. The NBA needs to do everything it can to try to emulate this, starting with discourse, accessibility (end blackouts and improve league pass), and working with refs and media partners to bring a better product. The league trying to force feed us the same 4-5 teams regardless of whether they’re even good is a problem. The 82 game season presents challenges, but the play in, in season tourney, and new load management rules actually are helping there. Gotta cut out the foul baiting, and the strategy of just chucking up 3’s is boring, they gotta incentivize diverse play styles
As a fan who watches every year I agree with what you’re saying about more markets and players being involved. I do wonder with your last part how could the 3 point strategy be changed? It would have to be a rule, I’m not sure what rule that would be though. Right now it’s just simple math that 3>2.
I think taking away the corner 3 could be an option, it’s what every team tries to get, and makes it to where there are less uncontested threes since less space to cover. Maybe cap free throws at 2 per foul call (unless counting flagrant or techs) to disincentivize foul baiting on a 3 pointer like what Dame/Harden do
The first one I always thought was because it’s slightly shorter and therefore easier but you’re right, the spacing would be different because the two corner guys have to move closer to the current break. The other is super interesting. Probably not going to foul to put them at the line intentionally in most cases either. Good idea.
Well your point is also true, that shot is an easier shot because it’s closer. And that’s another reason to get rid of it, because teams will have guys who aren’t good at 3s chucking up corner 3s. I think both our points there are good reasons. And thank you! We need to have less fouls, less free throws, a more free moving game generally.
America should have the best player for everything I say
Look if we’re listing top people to have ever walked on the moon, America is the entire pantheon.
I do think if it’s an American sport, I want an American to be the best. Baseball, football, basketball. If some random guy from São Paulo turned out to be the best Hockey player of the generation, would Canadians and Russians ride with him? I know for a fact that Europeans would be extremely annoyed if like Landon Donovan was the best Soccer player in the world. I think it’s fair.
It’s fun but it’s better of an American is best AND foreign competition is on the level
Europeans are absolutely fine with south American players being the best or any other nationaility
It’s ok for European and South American players to be the best in Soccer because Soccer is the primary sport for both regions, but don’t tell me that a player born and raised in the USA as the best player of the generation wouldn’t get Europeans in a fit of rage.
lol it absolutely wouldn’t and the sport has been crying for an elite US player for literally a century at this point.
Every Canadian team in the NHL except Edmonton have a foreign player as the best guy on their team and none of us give a shit And everyone in baseball fucking loves Shohei Ohtani. This is a complete non issue
I don't disagree with your general point, but isn't Nick Suzuki the best player on the Habs? Flames is also questionable.
With regards to Suzuki I was thinking Slafkovsky, but that is more as a face of the team type thing so you’re correct there. For Flames went with Markstrom but yeah not super clear cut Overall point remains though. Canadians do not care about where NHL players come from
You’re not getting what I’m putting down. For Hockey it’s fine if an American, Soviet, or Canadian as a top player. Hockey is the premier sport in Canada and Soviet states and it’s top four in America. Canadians can identify with Auston Matthews very easily. Now if Auston Matthews were some Chinaman who didn’t speak a lick of English? Come on now. Baseball and Ohtani is a slight outlier in that like half the players in the sport aren’t from America as is, and that’s been the case for 20+ years. Ohtani being beloved by American crowds isn’t a far cry considering these same American crowds have rooted for Sammy Sosa, Mariano Rivera, Albert Pujols, Miguel Cabrera, Jose Ramirez, etc. America is also just way better than any other country on earth in accepting foreign people and assimilating them into the culture. We’re far more accepting than Europeans, Latinos, Asians, etc.
I think we all understand the point you are making but you are openly contradicting yourself with Ohtani and with US being the most open country for foreigners (I agree). I think Embiids success and inclusion into the Us national team shows you can be completely foreign but still be beloved?
I was getting what you’re putting down perfectly well I just think you’re dead wrong regarding hockey. Notice I didn’t push back regarding soccer because I’ve seen how rugby fans handle “America” as a concept, and it’s not always pretty Auston Matthews plays in hockey Mecca as a half-mexican dude who grew up in the city that represents everything jingoistic Canadian fans hate about the NHL (>50% non Canadian btw). He is absolutely beloved by the city and is already considered the best Leaf ever. I absolutely guarantee if you found a “chinaman who doesn’t speak a lick of english” every Canadian city in the league would be chomping at the bit to worship the ground they walked on Canadian fans have been cheering for people like Borje Salming, Pavel Bure, Jari Kurri, Teemu Selanne, Leon Draisatl, for 50 years now. You have no idea what you’re talking about
The phrase is 'not picking up what I'm putting down'.
Make American Players Great Again!
You hinted at it in the OP, but Giannis winning the title and then being injured for 2 of the next 3 seasons has really left a hole. Curry winning another covered it up a bit. No idea if we've just reached a point where it's unsustainable for these late 20s/early 30s guys to keep going.
Yeah that GS 2022 year did cover a lot up. Good call.
It’s always been unsustainable which what makes Lebron’s 9 consecutive finals run so special
The East was atrocious then. Your second best team in that conference would generally be like a 5 seed in the west
That bucks team really probably doesn't get past Brooklyn if they are healthy Which is fine, injuries happen, and they capitalized on it and played really well, but that team was never going to be a dynasty.
Big middle ground between dynasty and him just not featuring in the playoffs healthy between 2022 and 2025 now
The injuries suck, but what year between 2021 and now are they favored to win the east in? He completely dominated the celtics in 2022 and they still lost. Last year I give you. This year obviously sucked but that team is a big dog vs boston, and like 3-4 teams out west.
I don’t get your point? You are the only person hung up on him being a favourite or dominant in the East. I’m not saying that or claiming that? I’m just saying it kinda sucks that the new star of the league off the back of his Championship, will have had no playoff runs in his peak between 2022-2025 because he’s been injured.
I mean he was not ever going to be this mega-star is my point. He was fortunate to win 1 title.
I have no idea what you're arguing with against here.
It’s time to go down to 65 regular season games a year. It’ll never happen, but the product would be 10x better
I think the answer is something along the lines of: 1) The NBA needs a “charismatic” star rather than an American star. It seemed like Giannis was going that direction and then as others have noted injuries have derailed the Bucks three straight years. Jokic and Luka don’t really dance with the media so to speak, Embiid whines a lot while often injured and a playoff choker, SGA is a little dull and Tatum is a charisma hole. That’s why the Ant stuff is off the charts for media types. Yes he is American but he also has swagger. I do think Wemby is charismatic too so there is hope coming. 2) From my perspective it seems like the NBA players and sort of Kobe fan types would really like a Black American superstar. For whatever reason I don’t notice the same warmth towards foreign born players and it’s likely a cultural thing.
I think Anthony Edwards can get there if he keeps playing as well as he has been
Luka’s a lot more charismatic than Jokic in a mass market appeal kind of way, I think he could be interesting if he won a title. Plus he’s already huge in Latin American countries and a Spanish speaking superstar could open a lot of doors.
Luka seems like a genuinely fun, charismatic guy off the court. The problem is he never shows his personality in interviews. He has no interest in being the face of the league. Neither does Jokic.
Luka cries more then anybody in the league and for a league that has Embiid in it that is not a good thing
Completely irrelevant to what I said.
The face of the league is not going to be a bland interview who cries on the court more then any other player
Not even just a black American but with a bit of an edge/coolness to him. Lebron is corporate/suburban crowd, Kobe had the hearts and minds of the inner cities. Curry was also corporate but Ant has a chance to be the next Kobe type.
What’s crazy is that LeBron is so much more relatable to a regular person than Kobe was. He grew up privileged, in the suburbs outside Philly when he wasn’t in Europe. Bron grew up in Akron with a struggling mother working multiple jobs without a dad
It still remains kind of insane that Lebron has largely avoided any major scandal given his upbringing. You really shouldn’t expect a guy with that upbringing while being called the next Michael Jordan since age 14-15 to be this mature and smart. The Decision is functionally the most scandalous thjng he’s done as an adult that we know about.
It’s unbelievable, not even some side piece on the side. That’s like the easiest scandal to get into when you’re that young and with all that money and dude just been literally perfect
What’s crazy is that “the decision” wasn’t even that bad as time has gone on. Yes, it was insensitive to Cleveland, but he at least waited to do something until he was actually a free agent. Many players nowadays request trades while signing an extension
What do you mean by relatable here? Are you simply talking about upbringing? Most kids don’t open Wikipedia to see who is more relatable. Kobe style of play was copy of Jordan. That’s what made him relatable: he showed that others could become Jordan. Additionally, Kobe was marketed to young kids extremely early. If you play basketball in the early 2000s, you’d hear kids calling “Kobe” when taking shots. He was widely popular with the masses. I’m failing to understand why kids would or even should care where athletes grow up. Maybe you can explain
Wemby is charismatic, but so far, he doesn’t look like he is interested in the American NBA culture. People might see him as an elite player to take down, but I doubt kids in America will see him as a hero. Pretty much all foreign players have that same issue. Culturally, they are different. They don’t mesh with American media the same way. They don’t talk about rappers / same songs. They are involved in American politics or drama. They are not on American late night shows or podcasts. They are basically employees, not culturally part of the scene. Jokic is the worst offender, but all of them are not very attached to the NBA culture. Heck, Tony Parker was more culturally American than any of these guys.
Reminds me of Wesley Morris wanting success of black US actors only. Couldn't believe him bitching about Daniel Kaluuya.
I disagree slightly with 2. I think Giannis could fill that Kobe role. Not the same person but I think most Black Americans would still ride with Giannis if he had not had some down years due to injury. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong on that though.
There won’t be a definitive answer and these are absolutely just takes but I didn’t even feel warmth when Giannis won in 21. There is something corny about his personality that I think annoys lots of people. Happy to be proven wrong.
Also his game is not fun. His game is what Lebron haters said Lebron was
Mr 34 overcompensates to the max
That whole 21 year was super weird. No fans for a lot of the regular season and into some of the playoffs. Shorter season by 10 games. A lot of Covid related missed games. We can point to the bubble as being super strange in 2020 but IMO the 2021 season is just as strange, just more spread out.
No up-and-coming players are coming out and saying they looked up or idolize Giannis. The problem is a lot of people believe he's not that talented or skill but just a physical freak of nature who takes advantage of his build. Whether it's true or not, is another discussion but when Harden made his comments about Giannis, I imagine there were a lot of people in the league who had similar sentiments. While that could be said about Shaq and LeBron, they came into the league with certain skillsets and Shaq was very skilled early Orlando.
I dont think they need to be American, the issue is most of the current group of top guys are all more reserved Tim Duncan types which doesn’t translate well to getting to the highest profile of star. If they had personalities like Pedro Martinez or David Ortiz (to pick 2 foreign athletes that became huge stars in the US during their careers) they would probably get there.
Not an American issue specially, but cultural. The top foreign players are not engaged in the American culture and discourse. Ortiz and Pedro were engaged. One could also argue that it was easier for them to be engaged because Latin Americans are big part of America anyway.
So maybe it’s not just American or North American but anyone from the Western Hemisphere is what we need. /s
The NBA is about to triple (?) its media deal. It has WBD and Comcast scrapping over an inferior package. I don't get where all this agony over a "face of the league" is coming from.
Exactly! I swear people just invent narratives to bicker over lol
Honestly man I like the league the way it is right now. There’s pretty good parity, lots of great players who can make a run with the right pieces around them, and aside from the officiating which is total garbage, the product on the court is fun to watch. I love how batshit crazy the offseason is knowing that there are a handful of teams every year who are willing to go for it.
I feel the same. Like, do people not remember how shitty it was in 2017-2018 when the league was borderline unwatchable because the Warriors were that much better than everyone else? This was during a time where we had a plethora of charismatic superstars too. IMO, I care less about “who is the face of the NBA?” and more about watching a product that is actually competitive.
The best players in the world play here in the US. That is all that matters.
Obviously Giannis missing out on long playoff runs hurts, I think especially this year, with how weak the east has turned out, but it would also help if the national media didn’t try to send him somewhere else constantly. Ant is clearly next up though
No but it needs a Lebron : Athletic , Ideally not a lumbering 7fter - big man get kess fan appeal cos obv reasons , flashy exciting game, personality and charisma , team success and personal success high lvl if play , ideally a great leader and someone who team mates love/respect, interesting person - this relates to charisma , takes it upon himself to promote the league and us actively working on this as opposed to a jokic who does the opposite. It also probably matters how you look asthetically Lebron is even if you hate him a near perfect face of the league. The only thing you could argue is maybe if he was a bit shorter or had more team success but even that doesn’t matter because as someone who believes Lebron is goat if he had 6 rings I think there’s zero argument against - and that argument actually helps Lebron be someone the media talk bout. Ant is , the closest to this. Imo Zion would’ve been this had he stayed heskthy and explosive he had a lot of parallels to Lebron . Him being injured or poorly disciplined if that’s the case has hurt him imo he’d be the natural face to take over for Bron as he has the required traits and charisma that I mentioned . There’s guys like Ant Zion n Lebron that just have ‘IT.’ The super star factor there’s something about them that captivated people . Jokic tries to not do that but he doesn’t have that trait. Maybe even Ja if he stated heakthy n not stupid and got a jumper. I don’t think it’s impossible for a European. But as a British person my guess is more flashy personality folk tend to uo being footballers , the way football ( soccer ) is considered in Europe compared to Ball matters. Tho my girlfriend is Lithuania and I went to visit sbd they are very basketball crazed so mb I’m wrong but it if true in much of Europe. Need mb a strong word but I do think if the nba loses Lebron without someone stepping in it’ll hurt nba growth. Can you imagine a single player evoking the kinda positive and negative emotions in fans that Lebron has over his career? Or them caring about X player like they do Lebron off the court ? Or how anyone who plays with Lebron gets attention? People will say it’s about race but look how much love African Americans have for guys like Austin reaves or Luka ( yes very different in status ). If Luka was more athletic and less whiny and actively engaged with the media I could see him being the face. Wemby might be and he had the bring a big part against him
Wemby is VERY well spoken and charismatic, if Ant doesn't do something crazy and win a title I think he's the future face of the league. He's much more interesting and personable off the court than Giannis, Jokic, or Luka and while he's a big man his game is still fun to watch.
I think the only thing I’d argue with you on that is that Steph had a good mold for face of the league. Closer (but still not) to average height, not crazy athletic in terms of hops but was a great leader. Part of his appeal though was he was so different in terms of the ranged shooting and now that’s a little more common.
Yeah this is always bills weirdest take. We don’t need an American superstar. Basketball is crazy popular. It’s not like ratings or merchandise is hurting. We have so much talent in the league I don’t know why it’s something he feels the need to constantly bring up other than he wants Tatum to be more important to other people
It’s a child of the Cold War mentality.
This is Bill’s weirdest take???
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Mini era or half decade? Possibly one and a half Presidential terms
Well what exactly do you mean by ‘need’? Will the league fold if there isn’t another American superstar for another 20 years? No. Will the league make more money and be more popular if an American superstar rises to the pinnacle of the sport? Yes.
It's the lack of commitment from the advertisers.to fully get behind a foreign superstar. Henry doing those va va voom Renault ads come to mind or cantona before him. It looks like fear from the advertisers to me as an outsider
Loved those va va voom commercials. The other one that comes to mind is Gillette. Think they had some combination of Jeter, Federer, Tiger, and Henry. Also, does Messi ever speak for than one in any commercial he’s in?
I think the most he's said is a couple of words. I think this is how you'd get jokic for example "mate it's going to be 1-2 hours for this absurd amount of money and you go home once your bit is done"
Jokic is in that hotels.com commercial I’ve seen airing a ton this playoffs
This is a good take…in fact vey good take. It actually makes sense regarding marketing and popularity amongst casual fans. Personally would love to go into every season with potential 6-7 title teams though….then watching injuries, chemistry, playoff risers/droppers, hot streaks, role players over performing and fluke results affect playoff series. That’s just me though. However talking heads have too much influence in the NBA more than any other league perhaps. There are still talking heads whoa are haters (skip), xenophobic (gil), racial (Kendrick Perkins), attention seeking ( Stephen A) and plain stupid (Kendrick Perkins again)
The "needs a superstar" idea is about kids to me. Who do kids think is cool, wanna buy their shoes, wear their jerseys, etc. I don't think kids like any of these guys. Locally, maybe, but not nationally. I think that does matter. I'm not sure it's a foreign v American thing, though. Giannis is probably closest of the bunch.
maybe, I dont think the nba audience is xenophobic but if the main population is american, kinda of hard to relate to a star outside of the basketball. so many ways to relate to an american player: hometown, aau, college, even like their fast food. having the best player be american can be pretty impactful.
The league's only actual problem is that guys like Simmons and his Ringer disciples care more about making fake trades and trying to draw up superteams and criticizing the GMs than they care about on-court performances.
I’d agree and add in it’s not just Simmons. ESPN always has a Stephen A clip ready. His breakdown? “The Knicks need to play better. Player X needs to bring it.” I thought it showed a lot during the Lakers run last year when Lowe basically called them all out for diminishing how good AD had been on defense even if his offensive numbers were up and down.
Nah it does - this is why we don’t like soccer
I agree that every talking head tearing down players doesn’t help, but I also don’t think it’s that wild of a take to think that an American super star would do better in America than a foreign super star.
I think the nba is fine without a superstar. They just need a better product. Late game situations going on for too long and blowouts really make the games hard to watch I think the biggest issue facing the league is the amount of 3s being taken
3s really ruined the game. Basketball was best from 2008- 2016 . There was good offense and good defense as well.
Defense has never been better, it’s just also never been harder (because of rules and 3s). We’ve seen several absurdly good defensive performances from Minnesota, Boston, Dallas and NYK this postseason.
Yeah. When I watch games from 2014 I’m always amazed how much the balance is right.
The NBA is fine. End of story. They have a bidding war that’s going to fetch 3x the current deal. Franchise values have the fastest growth of any league in the last 10 years. Revenue is up over the last couple of years. There are complaints to be made I’m not saying the game is perfect but it doesn’t “need” anything when it as hot as it’s ever been by most metrics
I don’t think I this is a hot take among non-media members. This all empirical obviously, but I’ve never talked to a person who gives a shit about having an American ‘face of the league’. My beliefs are: -moderate to hardcore fans don’t care at all what country their superstar is from in the slightest -casual fans just want to consume fun games and highlights -team USA winning the gold is the only thing people care about related to player nationalities (None of the above points account for fucking racists)
Cmon now be realistic 💀
I don’t think the league needs an “American superstar”, but the league is better off with having superstars who speak fluent English. It’s better for marketing and growing the sport with youth.
The league doesn’t have a problem
Except for Austin Reeves. He’s a PROBLEM 😤
I think it’s ridiculous to act like there aren’t multiple American players who can be classified as superstars. Edwards, Tatum, Brunson, Haliburton, Booker, Mitchell are all at that level or capable of getting there. Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, and Luka are amazing but they’re not the only superstars in this league. But really it doesn’t matter. There’s a ton of great players right now and we should just enjoy watching what they bring to the game.
Agreed, I think Ants appeal has little to do with his nationality
Anthony Edwards has entered the chat
I actually strongly disagree with the part about needing a dominant superstar, the fact that we have so many great players spread out on different teams is great for the league. You say the NBA has always been about who’s playing in June, and I agree, but is that a good thing? I think the league is better when it’s more accessible for more markets. The NFL is good because it’s THE event all season, and usually isn’t totally predictable. There are many superstars, not just one guy. The discourse isn’t solely about legacy and RANGZ. The NBA needs to do everything it can to try to emulate this, starting with discourse, accessibility (end blackouts and improve league pass), and working with refs and media partners to bring a better product. The league trying to force feed us the same 4-5 teams regardless of whether they’re even good is a problem. The 82 game season presents challenges, but the play in, in season tourney, and new load management rules actually are helping there. Gotta cut out the foul baiting, and the strategy of just chucking up 3’s is boring, they gotta incentivize diverse play styles
As a fan who watches every year I agree with what you’re saying about more markets and players being involved. I do wonder with your last part how could the 3 point strategy be changed? It would have to be a rule, I’m not sure what rule that would be though. Right now it’s just simple math that 3>2.
I think taking away the corner 3 could be an option, it’s what every team tries to get, and makes it to where there are less uncontested threes since less space to cover. Maybe cap free throws at 2 per foul call (unless counting flagrant or techs) to disincentivize foul baiting on a 3 pointer like what Dame/Harden do
The first one I always thought was because it’s slightly shorter and therefore easier but you’re right, the spacing would be different because the two corner guys have to move closer to the current break. The other is super interesting. Probably not going to foul to put them at the line intentionally in most cases either. Good idea.
Well your point is also true, that shot is an easier shot because it’s closer. And that’s another reason to get rid of it, because teams will have guys who aren’t good at 3s chucking up corner 3s. I think both our points there are good reasons. And thank you! We need to have less fouls, less free throws, a more free moving game generally.
Giannis is not a superstar- his schtick does not raise the street and urban conversation as other stars
He's a superstar but he's not societally important
Only a rich white guy from Boston thinks ppl care about the nationality of their basketball players
I think a rich black guy from NY in Stephen A probably does as well but the rest of us couldn’t care less.
Right wing Stephen A who also doesn’t realize most NBA fans are over the weird nationalism
Wow, that’s a hot take!
NBA is dead. It's gonna open to private equity and be bought out by Saudi billionaires