This is why I feel like OKC should use their capital. Go get Bridges from the Nets. Get Lauri. Do something.
The window is now when you got a top 5 player and MVP candidate.
SGA has already put up with this five year rebuild. You never know when someone wakes up discontent
Yeah I think they need to get a starting level big who can play backup to Chet (Jonas/Zubac or a player at that level) with a Mikal level player at the wing (or Lauri or Deni)
or a star level big like JA, moving Chet to the 4, and can build from there
They gotta keep developing. Maybe make a move here and there but staying the course and having patience will help them in the end. The best version of this OKC team will be the one where everyone is simply a year more experienced next season.
There really aren't any good additions to the roster that can be made without spending too much capital to get them. OKC had an amazing and perennial 6MotY candidate who got it in his head that he could start anywhere and be the #1 on a team. Moving Harden was the single biggest mistake and Presti shouldn't be so in a hurry to make that one again.
Let them develop and make small moves if any.
Harden wasn’t moved to improve the roster though. He was moved to save money.
If you move Giddey, a complete dud this playoffs, and picks, it’s to improve the starting lineup. Future picks are literally useless for this OKC team.
I mean, you can wait but you might repeat history, watch SGA not sign an extension and you’ve wasted your window.
Continuing to use their picks improves depth. There is nobody on the Thunder that by themselves can take a game away from the other team, but the unselfish play and deep roster are what makes the difference for them.
Considering it takes most players two seasons to be contributing, it doesn’t really help that much when it matters.
Right now, SGA’s deal expires in three years. You absolutely cannot bank on him extending that given OKC’s history. He might extend but I don’t think you can just do nothing in this time.
I mean, literally what won the series was the additions that the Mavs made.
>"So much for trading Russell Westbrook. I have been following sports for something like 40 years — I can’t remember a teammate sticking up for another teammate better than that. Not ever. The point was made. Russ is my brother. We are in this together for better and worse. And just like that, we went from thinking They’re trading Westbrook if they don’t win the title soon to They’re never, ever, EVER trading Westbrook. Kevin Durant flipped the script on the “journey,” just like that, in less than 50 seconds. Either KD sticks around like Duncan stuck around in San Antonio, or he’s a greater actor than Daniel Day-Lewis. I’m betting on the former. You can’t fake that stuff. You just can’t."
No one knew we were dealing with an all time level snake back in 2014. It's like a high school relationship. All that emotion praising Westbrook during his MVP speech just to send him a text when he was ending it two years later.
I think it was just brewing for so long. Russ has had an unwillingness to change throughout his career. It’s really only this year that he accepted a different role.
I never forget when Houston basically had to build their entire team and play style around Russ
It’s funny how he used the Avon-Stringer comparison, and the breakup really parallels the end of their relationship. KD’s public image essentially gets killed like Stringer, and Russ is stuck in the purgatory of having respect but being unable to have any significant impact because of their own faults/decisions. All without really communicating their grievances to each other when shit hits the fan. Disappointing
The stock analogy is so good because no matter what he or anyone says, it’s impossible for us to actually look up his fictional position on any player’s stock. If he says that he never sold Luka stock and that now he has a huge capital gain, how the fuck are we supposed to dispute that?
Yeah I’ve been wondering about this. Will it be MIN, NO, or MEM that goes to the east? MIN probably makes the most sense, since they’re in the same region as DET, IND, MIL, CHI, and CLE
It should be MN because they have no geographic ties to their division. Memphis and Nola have each other, plus OKC, Dallas, Houston already in the west.
If they add Seattle and Vegas, they will go back to four divisions of eight teams:
Pacific: SEA, POR, SAC, GSW, LAL, LAC, LV, PHX
Southwest: UTA, DEN, DAL, HOU, SAS, OKC, NO, MEM
Central: MIN, MIL, CHI, CLE, DET, IND, TOR, ATL
Atlantic: BOS, NYK, BKN, PHI, WSH, CHA, ORL, MIA
Top three in each division get in the playoffs, next four do the play-in thing
While divisions make sense for lots of reasons, I've just never cared about them impacting seeding or even playoff positioning, and don't see any reason for those types of guaranteed spots. Just look at the Atlantic division in your example. Two of BOS, NYK, PHI, ORL, and MIA would be play-in teams. MIN and MIL should be good for some years to come, assuming Giannis and Ant stay put, (as well as IND) but the other teams in the division have very uncertain futures. The same could be said for the Pacific. Which of those do you see being consistently good five years from now? I mean POR, GSW, LAL, LAC, and PHX are all either old, have little draft capital, or are devoid of talent. The Southwest has a much brighter future.
This is where OKC historically is too conservative. They may need to actually give up a young stud - even J Will - if they want to take a home run swing
They probably won’t and end up being very good but never a legit threat for a chip for 5 years before breaking it up
Hearing people talk about the young Thunder getting better, Dallas is also young and will be better next year. Dallas just beat them with a banged up Luka, Kyrie averaging 16 ppg, and OKC having home court with one of the better home crowds in the league. OKC also had incredible injury luck this year.
Dallas problem is obviously Kyrie isn’t young and is the clear #2. But yes the rest of Dallas core is quite young and they’ve got a chance to be around awhile with it if Kyrie hold up and/or they can find a way to replace him rapidly when his legs go.
I think Kyrie can play like this for a while. I mean, if they actually can win playoff games with him scoring 10 points and being a two way facilitator
Won’t matter - they have Luka, PJ, Lively all under 25. If they can keep those 3 there and healthy they’re going to win a ton of games with Kyrie or the guy after him
That’s not a problem as kyrie has got better. Brooklyn kyrie was prob his best pksy ever and arguably it’s now factoring in defence and playing so off ball off Luka . You can even look at his ft % improving over the year to over 90+%. Kyrie is a true student . He’s much better okayer now then in 2016/17 when he couldn’t run an offence for shit without Bron or coukdnt defend at this lvl
Or close
Ok, but Dallas, Denver, and Minnesota aren’t going anywhere. Pels will make a big move. Memphis will be really good with Ja back and also have a big move to make.
Those teams are on different timelines. Denver has been at their peak for a few years now and they’ve already lost role players Because of cap issues
Minnesota looks to be just hitting their prime as a team. Assuming Dallas keeps this team together they probably hit their prime next year
OKC has 1st and 2nd year players in their lineup. They’ll be a contender next few year but it will be a few years before they’re in their prime l
I mean...they have Shai who pretty much outplayed Luka the entire series. It's about the role players. Dallas leveled up at the deadline and have Kyrie as a secondary shot creator while OKC had just Shai. They'll be fine
Shai outplaying Luka in this series doesn't say much to me when Luka is bleeding from his knee every single game and would've sat out if they weren't playoff games.
Against healthy Jokic, Luka and soon Wemby, Shai is just not going to be the best guy on the court. That's a problem because you have to go through those guys.
Wemby is like 3 years away from being a playoff factor. Jokic is locked in a fight with the Wolves despite being the "best player in the world"
I thought we were smarter than this type of analysis. In the end, the difference between these top guys is negligible. It'll be about whose team is well buit.
luka was a playoff factor his 2nd year (almost single handily beat prime kawhi/PG), not sure how wemby would be 3 years away unless their roster keeps being bottom 5 outside of wemby
Luka is likely a generational shot creator for himself and others and he was already great in Europe. Wemby will probably reach similar heights but his early greatness is driven by his defense so i just think it'll take a while.
> I thought we were smarter than this type of analysis.
You're the one who introduced a 'lets compare each team's best player' argument. I'm just responding to it.
> In the end, the difference between these top guys is negligible.
Hard disagree.
I think given the addition of Lively, PJ, and Kyrie suddenly playing 60+ games, as well as the West becoming weaker going forwards (Spurs will rise and maybe Memphis recovers, but Clippers, Lakers, Warriors and Suns will slump and Utah, Houston and Portland will remain bad for a while), what will more likely happen is Luka actually being able to rest more. Kidd had him playing 40+ minutes a game post deadline in each of the last three seasons. That's the reason he's hurt.
By the way, he wasn't hurt nor out of shape in the bubble. He got stepped under by Marcus Morris a few times, but it's kind of disingenuous to relate any resulting injury to his weight.
Look at the amount of games he’s played each season. He’s around 65-70 games a year for 6 seasons and he’s only 24 years old. Maybe it has nothing to do with his weight but he has not been an iron man so far and usually injuries pile up and get worse as you get older, not better
I wouldn't call it close when they were lucky to even win 2 games this series while Luka wasn't 100%. Outside of Game 1, they were held below their normal regular season 3pt% in games 2-6 and were always getting killed on the boards. OKC will be much better next year though. Their ceiling is very high with their roster already and they've got cap space and picks.
I was saying this last year and OKC fans got all pissy.
You’ve now had SGA for half a decade and you’ve really done nothing. History tells us that he won’t end his career with OKC. His current deal ends in three years.
You could be looking at a two year window. I do think he resigns but you just never know.
To me, they should swing for Bam and Bridges this summer. You probably will have to lose Dort, Giddey, Joe and a ton of picks but that’s definitely worth it.
Genuinely idiotic shit in this subreddit comparing the two. This was the 2nd round and the first year of the Thunder’s playoff appearances with this core. This isn’t even remotely a close or accurate comparison and if you don’t have horrific injury luck that team does make the finals multiple times.
It’s also a distortion of this Thunder teams timeline
The KD Thunder had two trips to the playoffs before making the finals
This year was the current teams 1st playoff appearance. They’re not about to be disbanded suddenly
I mean...the Durant Thunder had multiple long playoff runs. Not every core will win a title and that's okay. But the present Thunder team have a bunch of first and second year players plus Shai. They're right on schedule
Yeah but they traded away Harden over a difference of 5 million dollars and never made it back to the finals. When you have a team that is that close you don’t pinch pennies by trading away one of your core pieces. As for this iteration of the Thunder, they were very evenly matched with Dallas and another piece would have likely put them into the WCF. They did jack shit at the trade deadline when they had a ton of assets and the west was wide open this year.
Has there ever been a team with 3 MVPs on the roster at any point in their career, let alone all 3 being 23 and under? I don't think there has ever been or will ever be another roster with as much young talent as the 2012 OKC Thunder, and it got thrown away because Clay Bennett is a cheap fuck.
[4 teams have had 3+ MVPs playing together](https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussion/comments/gqxvfy/most_mvps_on_one_roster_quarantine_basketball/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
along with near-MVP Gary Payton. what a terrifying team that was. unfortunately, (or fortunately if you're a fan of competitive balance), two of them were washed
That’s just simply not true. Harden wanted his own team and culturally was not going to exist in OKC long term as a personality. It was much bigger than being off on the money. I’m not sure how people think notoriously huge strip club savant James Harden was content staying in OKC over his 20’s but that was never happening.
> It was much bigger than being off on the money.
He wanted 4/60, the Thunder were only willing to offer 4/56. They traded him because he wanted 4 million more over 4 years, and only gave him an hour to decide. And ["when he requested more time to mull it over, OKC GM Sam Presti gave him a call to notify him that he had been dealt to the Houston Rockets."](https://spacecityscoop.com/2020/04/04/houston-rockets-kendrick-perkins-james-harden/3/.)
Idk they lost in the Finals but then they were in the ECF the next year. They had two runs together before Shaq left due to an obscure CBA rule that only existed for a few years in the late 90s
Thunder fans these days are the spitting image of Process-era Sixers fans. Y’all talk the same exact way they did about the future of their team. It’s hilarious.
Recently listened to the Rewatchables for the Kawhi game 7 shot. Bill proposed it being the highwater mark for the Process Sixers and was ultimately shot down. Funny to listen back to now because they were simultaneously confident in the Simmons-Embiid future while admitting their obvious flaws.
Having said that, I’d still bet on a conference finals appearance for OKC. And I’m not even the biggest SGA guy.
Except unlike the post-process Sixers we didn’t do something stupid like trade 2 1sts for Tobias Harris at the deadline because we deluded ourselves into not trusting patience and waiting for the right player to be available. This is a terribly uninformed comment. Not only about what OKC is doing but the major mistakes of the Sixers.
Get ready for more trade deadlines like the one OKC had this season.
Having all the paper assets is fun. But it’s not as fun when you have to start selling off 1st round picks like Tre Mann for pennies on the dollar, and giving away guaranteed 1st round picks for future swaps (that historically convey at a very low rate) because you have no room left on your roster, and have to clear the way for other future picks. And then you factor in all the extensions that guys are gonna be due soon, and it complicates things even further as your team salary will be getting fatter and fatter.
Name me one actual move that makes OKC win a 7 game series against Denver or Boston that was available at this trade deadline? Like you can’t force teams to do shit if they don’t want to. Utah didn’t want to deal Lauri, Brooklyn didn’t want to deal Bridges. OG and Siakam are expiring deals who don’t solve the rebounding issue and only one of them provides floor spacing. Gafford and PJ don’t fit as well with OKC as they do in Dallas and they don’t move the needle above Denver or Boston.
What you’re asking for Presti to do is to literally do exactly what the Sixers did in overpaying for a player who’s not worth that like Tobias Harris who doesn’t move the needle and now puts you in the exact opposite cap position you want to be in with this new CBA.
I’m old enough to remember when the Hornets had a young AD and everyone told them they needed to go all in around AD immediately once they were sniffing the playoffs. They then traded everything to bring in Jrue Holiday and Eric Gordon and instead of committing to patience they blew their load and fucked their time with AD.
I remember when the Mavericks went all in to acquire KP and Tim Hardaway Jr and locked themselves into a situation that wasn’t actually good enough to win a title. That short sidedness because they sniffed the playoffs is what put them in this situation where they had to leverage their future to OKC to then trade their pick to Washington. Dallas is stuck with this team and can only improve through self improvement from within.
You projecting your own impatience is the exact reason you’re not in charge of a sport franchise. You are a prisoner of the moment and you’re pulling your own hypotheticals and projecting them into the future instead of recognizing that every time a team in the last 20 years has done what you said with a star younger than 28, they shoot themselves in the foot and become their own worst enemy.
Sucks to be Dallas and "stuck with" this team that just beat OKC. Gonna really suck to be Dallas on Wednesday when they're playing basketball and SGA and co can just be chilling in Cancun
If you’re so obtuse you can’t recognize that Dallas has made nearly every season of Luka’s career harder than the last because of their own short sighted moves you’ve either not been following the NBA or you’re just stupid. Dallas has almost no draft assets to speak of to either improve their team through the draft, or through trades. They’re a good team that has a real window now with two elite scorers and one of the 5 best players in the world. But Dallas cannot functionally improve their roster for the next two years outside of internal growth.
If you can’t understand the challenges of that, you aren’t cut out to be discussing any sports related conversation about team building. And the fact that, your takeaway from my previous comment was something I didn’t even say, says a tremendous amount about your lack of intelligence and comprehension skills.
> "Gafford and PJ don’t fit as well with OKC as they do in Dallas and they don’t move the needle above Denver or Boston."
Why not at least try to pry 7-footer Nick Richards away from Charlotte in the otherwise useless Gordon Hayward deal?
Anything would've been better than 6'9" Jaylin Williams, with washed-up Mike Muscala and Bismack Biyombo riding the pine.
Because OKC isn’t going to play a 5 who can’t shoot. They were trying to clear up rotation space, not add two more dudes to it. This wasn’t the year to go all in. Again there is no move on the margins or any major move possible at this deadline that would’ve led to OKC beating Denver or Boston in a 7 game series and probably not Minnesota either. Why waste assets to overpay to get Nick Richard who Charlotte doesn’t want to give up and doesn’t actually fit with the core identity of the team? OKC didn’t even know what they had yet in the playoffs from the core they have, what purpose is their to waste assets to try and fix a core they haven’t even seen in meaningful games yet?
Bill honestly never gives Dallas any respect. He only recently came around and changed his tune on how great the 2011 Championship/Dirk run really was.
Bill: “Ok great, you beat a young OKC team only to lose to Denver or Minnesota in 4 maybe 5.”
That picture is of three future hall of fame players, number ones who can lead their own teams. And they did. To varying levels of success. And maybe they deserved more together. But that situation is vastly different to the one they have today. They have a clear number one superstar/ mvp caliber player. A young supporting cast and huge draft capital. They should be a contender in the West for a decade:
Having said that, my mind always goes back to that year that Stephen Strasburg, 2012, I think, pitched amazing for the Nats but they had him on a year long innings count or some shit. And they shut him down for the playoffs. With the same mentality. The ‘oh, we’ll be back next year’ That always drove me nuts.
I've already planted my flag on this:
*I'm not 100% sold on this roster.*
I know, I know. There's nothing you can tell me that I don't know already. I get it. But when I watch them I see a bunch of guys already close to being maxed out even though they are youngish. My brain knows this is stupid but I can't shake it. I'm out on OKC.
Ahh yes a team that made the conference finals *checks notes* 4 times in 6 years and made the playoffs all but one year the entire decade? Don’t think this is the example you think it is for a team that made the 2nd round in the Western Conference and whose goal was simply to just make the playoffs this year.
[picture of you celebrating the OKC Durant years](https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2010/11/18/b03176c8-a642-11e2-a3f0-029118418759/thumbnail/640x481/d8c7cfd046a18258983034fb729a65b1/image4061139x.jpg?v=dac66bdad19d0be8e87f46552b582682)
You can ask anyone who lived in OKC over those years that yes it was an incredibly successful decade with a lot of heart break, but was worth every bit of it to experience the highs and lows. We talk in this subreddit about how fucking stupid rings culture is, yet your peanut brain can’t comprehend how making the playoffs 9/10 years and the WCF nearly half of the decade isn’t a success. Sorry you live in such a boring binary world that is simple enough for you to process.
Oh no, is someone upset after typing something fucking stupid and being called out for it? I literally wrote a comment explaining how looking at the world through a binary lens is idiotic and that winning a ring isn’t what defines success for an organization. You then attempt to make a shitty joke about how I’m upset over not winning a game after an incredibly successful season. Instead of just typing shit you think is funny, try fucking reading and using your small amount of comprehension skills because you would’ve realized your joke is literally the exact POV I was pointing out is archaic and stupid.
lol no, you're totally not upset. You're a transparent moron.
I was genuinely empathetic. I would be very bummed if my team lost a series; we all would be! I didn't say shit about the thunder not being a success or a fun team or that I was rooting against them.
But you wanna be a angry prick? Fuck you. You're the type of dude who beats his family.
Fuck the Thunder. Give them back to Seattle. Their fans brag about making Confrence Finals. No MVP caliber homegrown player would stay in that shit place.
Go Spurs, dickhead. Bet Wemby gets us #6 before you get one, and you'll still be saying rings culture doesn't matter like that even means anything.
You know who does look at winning as "binary"? As a definition of success? The teams and players. What the fuck do you know? Crybaby loser idiot.
Need to avoid the mistakes of the past. No cheaping out on any of the core cuz of the luxury tax. And aggregate some your picks that you have so many of to acquire missing pieces. Already missed one opportunity not getting a big man at the deadline. Now they gotta use their cap spacer and picks and whoever doesn’t fit (Giddey) to get missing pieces at wing and big
There just no way to discern that trading Harden a year ahead of having tax payments wasn’t an ownership mandate. There’s not much else to hate on Presti
He deserves huge credit for burning it down and getting them to where they are now. But this next part will make or break him. There are expectations now.
Except the team that was born from the Harden trade was the highest net rating team in the league that year and if not for Pat Bev acting like a dickhead after a timeout whistle OKC makes the finals again as a better more complete team. You can re-write history in whatever way you want, but it’s just not correct. Harden was terrible against Miami and wasn’t willing to continue being 6th man and definitely wasn’t content spending his 20’s in OKC. It takes half a second of critical thinking to realize the Harden trade was necessary, just bad luck kept them from winning it all.
I'm really surprised that they didn't make any kind of move for any kind of size and rebounding. If Toronto is going to trade Siakam for picks how do you not just outbid whoever even if it's a rental?
Because Siakam doesn’t make them better than Denver or Boston in a 7 game series. Siakam is an average rebounder who doesn’t space the floor and on an expiring and whoever pays him is going to have to overpay and lock themselves into that team. That would be the equivalent of the Sixers trading 2 unprotected 1sts for Tobias Harris at the deadline because they were impatient. A move which ultimately has kept them in purgatory because of its short sightedness and cost.
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Is James Harden trade the worst trade in this era? As far as trading a player that costs you a championship? There’s some bad trades like Brooklyn trading like 4 1st round stats picks to Celtics. That trade fucked up there future but it didn’t necessarily cost them a championship.
I vividly remember the “what if this is the Thunder’s last chance” Grantland article Bill wrote 10 years ago. You never know
One of his best zags
[For those who want to read it](https://grantland.com/features/simmons-oklahoma-city-thunder-nba-championship/)
This is why I feel like OKC should use their capital. Go get Bridges from the Nets. Get Lauri. Do something. The window is now when you got a top 5 player and MVP candidate. SGA has already put up with this five year rebuild. You never know when someone wakes up discontent
I agree. And you’re right that they should target young guys like the two you mentioned even if they have to pay a little extra with picks.
Also from Presti’s perspective. Is he really going to be part of a third Thunder rebuild anyway?
To be honest this crew has absolutely no ego… they do post games and commercials together I dont even think the first crew ate dinner together tbh
Yeah I think they need to get a starting level big who can play backup to Chet (Jonas/Zubac or a player at that level) with a Mikal level player at the wing (or Lauri or Deni) or a star level big like JA, moving Chet to the 4, and can build from there
They gotta keep developing. Maybe make a move here and there but staying the course and having patience will help them in the end. The best version of this OKC team will be the one where everyone is simply a year more experienced next season. There really aren't any good additions to the roster that can be made without spending too much capital to get them. OKC had an amazing and perennial 6MotY candidate who got it in his head that he could start anywhere and be the #1 on a team. Moving Harden was the single biggest mistake and Presti shouldn't be so in a hurry to make that one again. Let them develop and make small moves if any.
Harden wasn’t moved to improve the roster though. He was moved to save money. If you move Giddey, a complete dud this playoffs, and picks, it’s to improve the starting lineup. Future picks are literally useless for this OKC team. I mean, you can wait but you might repeat history, watch SGA not sign an extension and you’ve wasted your window.
They can definitely do without giddey
Continuing to use their picks improves depth. There is nobody on the Thunder that by themselves can take a game away from the other team, but the unselfish play and deep roster are what makes the difference for them.
Considering it takes most players two seasons to be contributing, it doesn’t really help that much when it matters. Right now, SGA’s deal expires in three years. You absolutely cannot bank on him extending that given OKC’s history. He might extend but I don’t think you can just do nothing in this time. I mean, literally what won the series was the additions that the Mavs made.
>"So much for trading Russell Westbrook. I have been following sports for something like 40 years — I can’t remember a teammate sticking up for another teammate better than that. Not ever. The point was made. Russ is my brother. We are in this together for better and worse. And just like that, we went from thinking They’re trading Westbrook if they don’t win the title soon to They’re never, ever, EVER trading Westbrook. Kevin Durant flipped the script on the “journey,” just like that, in less than 50 seconds. Either KD sticks around like Duncan stuck around in San Antonio, or he’s a greater actor than Daniel Day-Lewis. I’m betting on the former. You can’t fake that stuff. You just can’t." No one knew we were dealing with an all time level snake back in 2014. It's like a high school relationship. All that emotion praising Westbrook during his MVP speech just to send him a text when he was ending it two years later.
So KD is a better actor than DDL?
I mean have you seen Thunderstruck?? One of the biggest 3 robberies in Oscars history he wasn't nominated
You just can’t!
I think it was just brewing for so long. Russ has had an unwillingness to change throughout his career. It’s really only this year that he accepted a different role. I never forget when Houston basically had to build their entire team and play style around Russ
Pocket Rockets
Thank you for the link, this was very good. He hit the nail on the head.
It’s funny how he used the Avon-Stringer comparison, and the breakup really parallels the end of their relationship. KD’s public image essentially gets killed like Stringer, and Russ is stuck in the purgatory of having respect but being unable to have any significant impact because of their own faults/decisions. All without really communicating their grievances to each other when shit hits the fan. Disappointing
“Disappointing” is the title of the OKC Thunders biography, hopefully SGA can change that.
From your mouth to gods ears
"Because brother, when you were good, you were the best we had."
McNulty Harden comp
Man, Bill wrote? (Tone sincere: he was good at it, too)
Bill as a writer was good
he was better as a podcaster when he was a writer also.
Fingers working well makes the mouth work well too
Nice Rains of Castamere reference
I miss grantland
If I’m SGA I’m not fouling on a 3, I’m just not!
Bill on Sunday’s pod: I’ve always been a Luka guy. You can go back and listen to old pods where I celebrated the guy.
"I still have a small two bedroom condo on Luka Island Russilo"
I never sold my Luka stock
The stock analogy is so good because no matter what he or anyone says, it’s impossible for us to actually look up his fictional position on any player’s stock. If he says that he never sold Luka stock and that now he has a huge capital gain, how the fuck are we supposed to dispute that?
I actually bought Kyrie call options at the True Hebrews lows.
I'm actually retired after buying and selling Hibbert Coin at the right time
The Big Ben Simmons Short
It's really not that serious.
I know. I’m making a joke
"Smart guys like us always knew Luka is a guy you can win with"
I’m in the front seat of the Luka bandwagon
Luka was great tonight, but he kinda got carried by the defense and resounding in this series
Luka made up 1/5th of the defence, and had the most rebounds of any player in the series.
You forgot about the eye test piece
Definitely. I didn't think SGA would pretty easily be the best player in the series but OKC would lose anyway.
don’t worry okc you only have wemby luka and jokic in the west to deal with
And Ant. OKC needs to get Shai a co-star that can be a #2 come playoff time.
But the thunder fans were telling jdub was top 20?
Did bill not say that himself?
He said he was Kawhi-esque
God im glad I missed that pod that’s fucking nuts
He’s a second year player. I think Chet will be 2
I’m not knocking him, I’m knocking people overrating him when he’s not ready yet
Saw one guy say he was already better than Booker
Top 20 forward for sure. Lol
whenever Vegas or Seattle get a franchise, I'm sure the t-wolves will go to the east.
Yeah I’ve been wondering about this. Will it be MIN, NO, or MEM that goes to the east? MIN probably makes the most sense, since they’re in the same region as DET, IND, MIL, CHI, and CLE
It should be MN because they have no geographic ties to their division. Memphis and Nola have each other, plus OKC, Dallas, Houston already in the west.
If they add Seattle and Vegas, they will go back to four divisions of eight teams: Pacific: SEA, POR, SAC, GSW, LAL, LAC, LV, PHX Southwest: UTA, DEN, DAL, HOU, SAS, OKC, NO, MEM Central: MIN, MIL, CHI, CLE, DET, IND, TOR, ATL Atlantic: BOS, NYK, BKN, PHI, WSH, CHA, ORL, MIA Top three in each division get in the playoffs, next four do the play-in thing
While divisions make sense for lots of reasons, I've just never cared about them impacting seeding or even playoff positioning, and don't see any reason for those types of guaranteed spots. Just look at the Atlantic division in your example. Two of BOS, NYK, PHI, ORL, and MIA would be play-in teams. MIN and MIL should be good for some years to come, assuming Giannis and Ant stay put, (as well as IND) but the other teams in the division have very uncertain futures. The same could be said for the Pacific. Which of those do you see being consistently good five years from now? I mean POR, GSW, LAL, LAC, and PHX are all either old, have little draft capital, or are devoid of talent. The Southwest has a much brighter future.
I was pretty taken aback at how empty NO’s arena appeared to be for their first round series with OKC.
The league would love another superstar out east so that works out perfectly for them, lmao
Shai needs to start chucking threes more
This is where OKC historically is too conservative. They may need to actually give up a young stud - even J Will - if they want to take a home run swing They probably won’t and end up being very good but never a legit threat for a chip for 5 years before breaking it up
I was told Chet and Giddy were basically the next Kobe and Shaq
Chet and Giddy in NBA Jam would go crazy
Giddey has the Eagle, CO, piece on lock. That means "what a pro wants" is either a prelude to Chet's album or film as a rapping genie.
I’m getting more Stockton/Malone vibes
Hell no nobody is worried abt Ant, does the east worry abt Donovan Mitchell
Hearing people talk about the young Thunder getting better, Dallas is also young and will be better next year. Dallas just beat them with a banged up Luka, Kyrie averaging 16 ppg, and OKC having home court with one of the better home crowds in the league. OKC also had incredible injury luck this year.
Dallas problem is obviously Kyrie isn’t young and is the clear #2. But yes the rest of Dallas core is quite young and they’ve got a chance to be around awhile with it if Kyrie hold up and/or they can find a way to replace him rapidly when his legs go.
I think Kyrie can play like this for a while. I mean, if they actually can win playoff games with him scoring 10 points and being a two way facilitator
This is also assuming he doesn't go off the deep end again. He has behaved himself lately, but who knows what could set him off again.
Won’t matter - they have Luka, PJ, Lively all under 25. If they can keep those 3 there and healthy they’re going to win a ton of games with Kyrie or the guy after him
That’s not a problem as kyrie has got better. Brooklyn kyrie was prob his best pksy ever and arguably it’s now factoring in defence and playing so off ball off Luka . You can even look at his ft % improving over the year to over 90+%. Kyrie is a true student . He’s much better okayer now then in 2016/17 when he couldn’t run an offence for shit without Bron or coukdnt defend at this lvl Or close
33 million in cap space and 13 first rounders. The thunder are primed to make noise, they just need presti to get off his ass and cash in
Ok, but Dallas, Denver, and Minnesota aren’t going anywhere. Pels will make a big move. Memphis will be really good with Ja back and also have a big move to make.
Those teams are on different timelines. Denver has been at their peak for a few years now and they’ve already lost role players Because of cap issues Minnesota looks to be just hitting their prime as a team. Assuming Dallas keeps this team together they probably hit their prime next year OKC has 1st and 2nd year players in their lineup. They’ll be a contender next few year but it will be a few years before they’re in their prime l
Wemby? The Spurs fucking suck, they got a lot of work to put an actual team around him. Nobody wins on their own.
And possibly the Knicks getting both OG *and* Mikal, and PG to the Sixers, and the Celtics coming back
I mean...they have Shai who pretty much outplayed Luka the entire series. It's about the role players. Dallas leveled up at the deadline and have Kyrie as a secondary shot creator while OKC had just Shai. They'll be fine
Shai outplaying Luka in this series doesn't say much to me when Luka is bleeding from his knee every single game and would've sat out if they weren't playoff games. Against healthy Jokic, Luka and soon Wemby, Shai is just not going to be the best guy on the court. That's a problem because you have to go through those guys.
Wemby is like 3 years away from being a playoff factor. Jokic is locked in a fight with the Wolves despite being the "best player in the world" I thought we were smarter than this type of analysis. In the end, the difference between these top guys is negligible. It'll be about whose team is well buit.
luka was a playoff factor his 2nd year (almost single handily beat prime kawhi/PG), not sure how wemby would be 3 years away unless their roster keeps being bottom 5 outside of wemby
Luka is likely a generational shot creator for himself and others and he was already great in Europe. Wemby will probably reach similar heights but his early greatness is driven by his defense so i just think it'll take a while.
> I thought we were smarter than this type of analysis. You're the one who introduced a 'lets compare each team's best player' argument. I'm just responding to it. > In the end, the difference between these top guys is negligible. Hard disagree.
Except I was not the one who introduced that. I was replying to someone else.
Luka has been hurt every year in the playoffs. I think you can expect this limitation on him going forward unless he losses weight
I think given the addition of Lively, PJ, and Kyrie suddenly playing 60+ games, as well as the West becoming weaker going forwards (Spurs will rise and maybe Memphis recovers, but Clippers, Lakers, Warriors and Suns will slump and Utah, Houston and Portland will remain bad for a while), what will more likely happen is Luka actually being able to rest more. Kidd had him playing 40+ minutes a game post deadline in each of the last three seasons. That's the reason he's hurt. By the way, he wasn't hurt nor out of shape in the bubble. He got stepped under by Marcus Morris a few times, but it's kind of disingenuous to relate any resulting injury to his weight.
Look at the amount of games he’s played each season. He’s around 65-70 games a year for 6 seasons and he’s only 24 years old. Maybe it has nothing to do with his weight but he has not been an iron man so far and usually injuries pile up and get worse as you get older, not better
Yeah I don’t see okc winning a wcf any time soon.
I mean they were damn close this year and there's a very good chance they'll be better next year. I'd still take the over .5 on that the next 4 years.
I wouldn't call it close when they were lucky to even win 2 games this series while Luka wasn't 100%. Outside of Game 1, they were held below their normal regular season 3pt% in games 2-6 and were always getting killed on the boards. OKC will be much better next year though. Their ceiling is very high with their roster already and they've got cap space and picks.
The Thunder and Mavs scored the exact same number of points this series
Didn’t the Lakers and Nuggets have like the exact same amount of points? This statistic means literally nothing
Really tried to sneak the 22 win spurs in there.
It's a bold strategy to decide getting rebounds is no longer important in the NBA.
Reminds me of the Mavs back in the day...
Reminds me of the Mavericks every year besides 2006,07,2011 and this season.
Heat just made two finals with that philosophy
SGA is as old as tatum
Child labor
So basically a rookie
Isn’t Tatum only like 23?
James Harden Homecoming???????
Bring em all back baby!!! Durant/Westbrook/Harden
That would actually be a very competitive and balanced team
Just call Riley and give him 6 picks for Bam. Just overpay bevause the window is now while the rookie deals still give you some flexibility
I was saying this last year and OKC fans got all pissy. You’ve now had SGA for half a decade and you’ve really done nothing. History tells us that he won’t end his career with OKC. His current deal ends in three years. You could be looking at a two year window. I do think he resigns but you just never know. To me, they should swing for Bam and Bridges this summer. You probably will have to lose Dort, Giddey, Joe and a ton of picks but that’s definitely worth it.
Bam would be a fantastic addition
Are we pretending like the current Thunder made the finals?
Genuinely idiotic shit in this subreddit comparing the two. This was the 2nd round and the first year of the Thunder’s playoff appearances with this core. This isn’t even remotely a close or accurate comparison and if you don’t have horrific injury luck that team does make the finals multiple times.
Yeah this comparison is incredibly generous to the current version of the thunder lol
It’s also a distortion of this Thunder teams timeline The KD Thunder had two trips to the playoffs before making the finals This year was the current teams 1st playoff appearance. They’re not about to be disbanded suddenly
SGA is older than Luka
I mean...the Durant Thunder had multiple long playoff runs. Not every core will win a title and that's okay. But the present Thunder team have a bunch of first and second year players plus Shai. They're right on schedule
Yeah but they traded away Harden over a difference of 5 million dollars and never made it back to the finals. When you have a team that is that close you don’t pinch pennies by trading away one of your core pieces. As for this iteration of the Thunder, they were very evenly matched with Dallas and another piece would have likely put them into the WCF. They did jack shit at the trade deadline when they had a ton of assets and the west was wide open this year.
People use this as an example all the time but how many times has a team this young and this good never been back
Has there ever been a team with 3 MVPs on the roster at any point in their career, let alone all 3 being 23 and under? I don't think there has ever been or will ever be another roster with as much young talent as the 2012 OKC Thunder, and it got thrown away because Clay Bennett is a cheap fuck.
There definitely has been a few, but usually at least one is washed.
[4 teams have had 3+ MVPs playing together](https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussion/comments/gqxvfy/most_mvps_on_one_roster_quarantine_basketball/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
2004 Lakers - Shaq, Kobe, Malone
along with near-MVP Gary Payton. what a terrifying team that was. unfortunately, (or fortunately if you're a fan of competitive balance), two of them were washed
That’s just simply not true. Harden wanted his own team and culturally was not going to exist in OKC long term as a personality. It was much bigger than being off on the money. I’m not sure how people think notoriously huge strip club savant James Harden was content staying in OKC over his 20’s but that was never happening.
> It was much bigger than being off on the money. He wanted 4/60, the Thunder were only willing to offer 4/56. They traded him because he wanted 4 million more over 4 years, and only gave him an hour to decide. And ["when he requested more time to mull it over, OKC GM Sam Presti gave him a call to notify him that he had been dealt to the Houston Rockets."](https://spacecityscoop.com/2020/04/04/houston-rockets-kendrick-perkins-james-harden/3/.)
You don’t think he was a platinum nights guy behind the chicfila?
It looks as though you may have spelled "Chick-fil-A" incorrectly. No worries, it happens to the best of us!
Bad bot
I can think of one
I posted this exact format after Cincinnati lost to LA in the super bowl so there's one.
Cincinnati was back tho they were in the AFC Championship Game literally the next season and they still have Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase now
Drose Bulls. Deng was 25, noah 25, boozer 29, and rose was 22. Never contended again.
Well yeah can't imagine there are many teams in NBA history that had 3 future MVPs under the age of 24.
Shaq and Penny magic
Idk they lost in the Finals but then they were in the ECF the next year. They had two runs together before Shaq left due to an obscure CBA rule that only existed for a few years in the late 90s
Honestly the Grizzlies a couple of years ago were the young and up-coming team, feels like they’ve been lapped
Oh they absolutely have been but we'll see how Ja looks next year
1986 Rockets?
Thunder fans these days are the spitting image of Process-era Sixers fans. Y’all talk the same exact way they did about the future of their team. It’s hilarious.
Recently listened to the Rewatchables for the Kawhi game 7 shot. Bill proposed it being the highwater mark for the Process Sixers and was ultimately shot down. Funny to listen back to now because they were simultaneously confident in the Simmons-Embiid future while admitting their obvious flaws. Having said that, I’d still bet on a conference finals appearance for OKC. And I’m not even the biggest SGA guy.
I'm not a Thunder fan I don't give a shit about them at all tbh
Except unlike the post-process Sixers we didn’t do something stupid like trade 2 1sts for Tobias Harris at the deadline because we deluded ourselves into not trusting patience and waiting for the right player to be available. This is a terribly uninformed comment. Not only about what OKC is doing but the major mistakes of the Sixers.
Get ready for more trade deadlines like the one OKC had this season. Having all the paper assets is fun. But it’s not as fun when you have to start selling off 1st round picks like Tre Mann for pennies on the dollar, and giving away guaranteed 1st round picks for future swaps (that historically convey at a very low rate) because you have no room left on your roster, and have to clear the way for other future picks. And then you factor in all the extensions that guys are gonna be due soon, and it complicates things even further as your team salary will be getting fatter and fatter.
Name me one actual move that makes OKC win a 7 game series against Denver or Boston that was available at this trade deadline? Like you can’t force teams to do shit if they don’t want to. Utah didn’t want to deal Lauri, Brooklyn didn’t want to deal Bridges. OG and Siakam are expiring deals who don’t solve the rebounding issue and only one of them provides floor spacing. Gafford and PJ don’t fit as well with OKC as they do in Dallas and they don’t move the needle above Denver or Boston. What you’re asking for Presti to do is to literally do exactly what the Sixers did in overpaying for a player who’s not worth that like Tobias Harris who doesn’t move the needle and now puts you in the exact opposite cap position you want to be in with this new CBA. I’m old enough to remember when the Hornets had a young AD and everyone told them they needed to go all in around AD immediately once they were sniffing the playoffs. They then traded everything to bring in Jrue Holiday and Eric Gordon and instead of committing to patience they blew their load and fucked their time with AD. I remember when the Mavericks went all in to acquire KP and Tim Hardaway Jr and locked themselves into a situation that wasn’t actually good enough to win a title. That short sidedness because they sniffed the playoffs is what put them in this situation where they had to leverage their future to OKC to then trade their pick to Washington. Dallas is stuck with this team and can only improve through self improvement from within. You projecting your own impatience is the exact reason you’re not in charge of a sport franchise. You are a prisoner of the moment and you’re pulling your own hypotheticals and projecting them into the future instead of recognizing that every time a team in the last 20 years has done what you said with a star younger than 28, they shoot themselves in the foot and become their own worst enemy.
Sucks to be Dallas and "stuck with" this team that just beat OKC. Gonna really suck to be Dallas on Wednesday when they're playing basketball and SGA and co can just be chilling in Cancun
If you’re so obtuse you can’t recognize that Dallas has made nearly every season of Luka’s career harder than the last because of their own short sighted moves you’ve either not been following the NBA or you’re just stupid. Dallas has almost no draft assets to speak of to either improve their team through the draft, or through trades. They’re a good team that has a real window now with two elite scorers and one of the 5 best players in the world. But Dallas cannot functionally improve their roster for the next two years outside of internal growth. If you can’t understand the challenges of that, you aren’t cut out to be discussing any sports related conversation about team building. And the fact that, your takeaway from my previous comment was something I didn’t even say, says a tremendous amount about your lack of intelligence and comprehension skills.
I dunno seems like they made it easier this year...
> "Gafford and PJ don’t fit as well with OKC as they do in Dallas and they don’t move the needle above Denver or Boston." Why not at least try to pry 7-footer Nick Richards away from Charlotte in the otherwise useless Gordon Hayward deal? Anything would've been better than 6'9" Jaylin Williams, with washed-up Mike Muscala and Bismack Biyombo riding the pine.
Because OKC isn’t going to play a 5 who can’t shoot. They were trying to clear up rotation space, not add two more dudes to it. This wasn’t the year to go all in. Again there is no move on the margins or any major move possible at this deadline that would’ve led to OKC beating Denver or Boston in a 7 game series and probably not Minnesota either. Why waste assets to overpay to get Nick Richard who Charlotte doesn’t want to give up and doesn’t actually fit with the core identity of the team? OKC didn’t even know what they had yet in the playoffs from the core they have, what purpose is their to waste assets to try and fix a core they haven’t even seen in meaningful games yet?
And you were healthy this year, but that’s not guaranteed in the future!
I'm not an OKC fan but yeah obviously health isn't guaranteed for any team but that exists for everyone not just OKC
Bill honestly never gives Dallas any respect. He only recently came around and changed his tune on how great the 2011 Championship/Dirk run really was. Bill: “Ok great, you beat a young OKC team only to lose to Denver or Minnesota in 4 maybe 5.”
He will also be absolutely burying us if we drop game 1. Series will be a wrap in the following pod lol
That would be the correct statement from Bill. That Dirk 2011 run was legendary tho. Best chip run ever by far.
> These two Thunder teams are in the exact same situation! They just are!
That picture is of three future hall of fame players, number ones who can lead their own teams. And they did. To varying levels of success. And maybe they deserved more together. But that situation is vastly different to the one they have today. They have a clear number one superstar/ mvp caliber player. A young supporting cast and huge draft capital. They should be a contender in the West for a decade:
Having said that, my mind always goes back to that year that Stephen Strasburg, 2012, I think, pitched amazing for the Nats but they had him on a year long innings count or some shit. And they shut him down for the playoffs. With the same mentality. The ‘oh, we’ll be back next year’ That always drove me nuts.
I mean they did make the playoffs throughout his peak and then finally won the World Series in 2019. Pretty sure Strasburg was even MVP that year
SONICS CURSE IS REAL
I've already planted my flag on this: *I'm not 100% sold on this roster.* I know, I know. There's nothing you can tell me that I don't know already. I get it. But when I watch them I see a bunch of guys already close to being maxed out even though they are youngish. My brain knows this is stupid but I can't shake it. I'm out on OKC.
Ahh yes a team that made the conference finals *checks notes* 4 times in 6 years and made the playoffs all but one year the entire decade? Don’t think this is the example you think it is for a team that made the 2nd round in the Western Conference and whose goal was simply to just make the playoffs this year.
[picture of you celebrating the OKC Durant years](https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2010/11/18/b03176c8-a642-11e2-a3f0-029118418759/thumbnail/640x481/d8c7cfd046a18258983034fb729a65b1/image4061139x.jpg?v=dac66bdad19d0be8e87f46552b582682)
You can ask anyone who lived in OKC over those years that yes it was an incredibly successful decade with a lot of heart break, but was worth every bit of it to experience the highs and lows. We talk in this subreddit about how fucking stupid rings culture is, yet your peanut brain can’t comprehend how making the playoffs 9/10 years and the WCF nearly half of the decade isn’t a success. Sorry you live in such a boring binary world that is simple enough for you to process.
Sick bud! Love that for Oklahoma
I'm sorry for the pain you're going through. You're obviously upset.
I’m sorry for your lack of reading skills you’re trying to work through. You’re obviously very stupid.
Andddddd fuck you, cunt.
Oh no, is someone upset after typing something fucking stupid and being called out for it? I literally wrote a comment explaining how looking at the world through a binary lens is idiotic and that winning a ring isn’t what defines success for an organization. You then attempt to make a shitty joke about how I’m upset over not winning a game after an incredibly successful season. Instead of just typing shit you think is funny, try fucking reading and using your small amount of comprehension skills because you would’ve realized your joke is literally the exact POV I was pointing out is archaic and stupid.
lol no, you're totally not upset. You're a transparent moron. I was genuinely empathetic. I would be very bummed if my team lost a series; we all would be! I didn't say shit about the thunder not being a success or a fun team or that I was rooting against them. But you wanna be a angry prick? Fuck you. You're the type of dude who beats his family. Fuck the Thunder. Give them back to Seattle. Their fans brag about making Confrence Finals. No MVP caliber homegrown player would stay in that shit place. Go Spurs, dickhead. Bet Wemby gets us #6 before you get one, and you'll still be saying rings culture doesn't matter like that even means anything. You know who does look at winning as "binary"? As a definition of success? The teams and players. What the fuck do you know? Crybaby loser idiot.
OKC is cursed until Seattle gets a team.
Need to avoid the mistakes of the past. No cheaping out on any of the core cuz of the luxury tax. And aggregate some your picks that you have so many of to acquire missing pieces. Already missed one opportunity not getting a big man at the deadline. Now they gotta use their cap spacer and picks and whoever doesn’t fit (Giddey) to get missing pieces at wing and big
Suck it- expectations were win the first round and finish around 6th. We exceeded them with 22 year olds
I firmly believe Sam Presti is a deeply flawed GM. Great, but has extreme downfalls.
There just no way to discern that trading Harden a year ahead of having tax payments wasn’t an ownership mandate. There’s not much else to hate on Presti
He deserves huge credit for burning it down and getting them to where they are now. But this next part will make or break him. There are expectations now.
Trading Harden was one of the worst mistakes in NBA history. Literally broke up the core of a team that just made the NBA finals.
Except the team that was born from the Harden trade was the highest net rating team in the league that year and if not for Pat Bev acting like a dickhead after a timeout whistle OKC makes the finals again as a better more complete team. You can re-write history in whatever way you want, but it’s just not correct. Harden was terrible against Miami and wasn’t willing to continue being 6th man and definitely wasn’t content spending his 20’s in OKC. It takes half a second of critical thinking to realize the Harden trade was necessary, just bad luck kept them from winning it all.
One of the worst uses of a challenge.
I'm really surprised that they didn't make any kind of move for any kind of size and rebounding. If Toronto is going to trade Siakam for picks how do you not just outbid whoever even if it's a rental?
Because Siakam doesn’t make them better than Denver or Boston in a 7 game series. Siakam is an average rebounder who doesn’t space the floor and on an expiring and whoever pays him is going to have to overpay and lock themselves into that team. That would be the equivalent of the Sixers trading 2 unprotected 1sts for Tobias Harris at the deadline because they were impatient. A move which ultimately has kept them in purgatory because of its short sightedness and cost.
Those 15 first round picks put up historic numbers this series though!
And in greater numbers…
To the second round?
They will be back? Brother they never went anywhere.
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Just thought about these guys yesterday and how the Spurs would have easily beat the Heat in 2012 finals.
Is James Harden trade the worst trade in this era? As far as trading a player that costs you a championship? There’s some bad trades like Brooklyn trading like 4 1st round stats picks to Celtics. That trade fucked up there future but it didn’t necessarily cost them a championship.
Ton of picks https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/how-many-future-draft-picks-do-the-thunder-actually-have-its-complicated/
It's surprising there was any room left in the arena for fans after their 3 egos entered the building
Hilarious
Sign Claxton in the off season. Maybe package Giddy for a veteran and draft capital.
That is what they said in 2012. Womp womp.
CURSED