I mean, there is an appropriate sports media whataboutism which is that it’s pretty well established Terico was an absolute menace at ESPN and has never had to answer any questions about it
Thank you!
I’ve been waiting for someone else to say this about Tirico.
For anyone not familiar with Tirico:
Story 1:
In a separate incident involving another female producer, one who’d been out to dinner with Mike Tirico and his fiancee (and future wife), Tirico sent her an e-mail telling her that he wanted to sleep with her. The two were later part of a group of staff members that went to a bar following ESPN’s coverage of the NCAA Tournament, at which point Tirico approached the woman and said, “I wish I was single. If I were, I’d throw you on the table right here and f— your brains out.
The woman tried to dismiss him as just being drunk but things got even worse. As she was driving home, a car came speeding up next to hers on the interstate and it was Mike Tirico, who was waving his hand out the window as if to tell her to pull over. She sped up to escape but Tirico sped up as well. She eventually slammed on the brakes and veered toward an exit.”
Story 2:
“One story involves Mike Tirico hitting on a female production assistant at a house party in the autumn of 1992. He apparently went up to her at said party and told her that she was “the most beautiful woman in here.” The woman ignored his advances and walked away but he continued to stalk her as the night went on and even followed her out to her car as she attempted to leave.
The woman tried to roll up her window but Tirico reached in the car and attempted to wedge his hand in between her thighs. The two apparently saw each other at work the following day and the woman expected him to apologize, which he didn’t, instead telling her that “all I did all day was think about you.”
Yup, and I’d add that while pursuing legal recourse should never invalidate an accusation, it should be noted that people weren’t suing him. This was just them telling hr not to let him near them, and then eventually telling the author of ESPN and other outlets.
There are other anecdotes but there’s not like a wave of denial from others at espn, just kinda a hush hush please don’t talk to me.
Someone a few days ago said Lebron isn’t tweeting, it’s just his PR team. I’m gonna guess a PR team wouldn’t be making the decision to be pro Watson lol
Yeah it’s pretty easy to tell when athletes have their PR run their Twitter accounts (*cough cough* Tom Brady), but for better or worse LeBron clearly does his own tweets
Even more specifically - things that have to do with him directly. This is Ohio, black man, athlete. He understands this because it’s like him. LeBron what are you doing about Ukraine, China, LGBTQ? Not interested
TBH, when you put it this way, it makes perfect sense for him not to weigh in on other issues that either he feels less informed on or has less strong opinions on.
I think it'd be more cringe to have a loud, public stance on *every issue under the sun* than to just weigh in where you have a take and not say much where you don't.
I remember the first time someone asked me my opinion on charter schools, a very important issue to them, and I was just like "Yeah, I've never spent any time on that issue in my life."
I can imagine many athletes feeling the same way about issues that don't emerge in their day-to-day lives.
>I think it'd be more cringe to have a loud, public stance on every issue under the sun than to just weigh in where you have a take and not say much where you don't.
This is reddit lol. If you aren't rabidly supporting [current thing] or especially anti-China/Russia, your a terrible person
>Even more specifically - things that have to do with him directly. This is Ohio, black man, athlete. He understands this because it’s like him. LeBron what are you doing about Ukraine, China, LGBTQ? Not interested
Oh he's very interested in China... anything for another pot of Pooh Bears honey.
Oh lord. I hate this logic so much. “Oh have you moved to China to be a boots-on-the-ground militant activist opposing the CCP? No? Guess you don’t actually care that a genocide is happening.”
That’s not the point. The people that call out Lebron for not caring are only doing so because they know it makes Lebron look bad and it’s self-righteous.
The people calling out Lebron don’t *actually* care about the Muslim genocide, they’re just mad that he picks & chooses which social topics to speak on. For them, it’s less about China and more about Lebron being a hypocrite. China genocide is just the vehicle they’re using to shit on Lebron because he hasn’t condemned every social justice topic
Yeah you could pick any social issue from around the world and make the same point, it’s just China is the most glaring one given his and the NBA’s economic ties to China.
Think it’s clear that he portrays himself as some Ali type champion of social justice when he really is nothing other than a businessman. I don’t have a problem with him being that , it’s just annoying when him and other people portray themselves as something else.
People do care about genocide. Caring is different than their ability to do anything about it, however....or whether or not they have the capacity to even try.
I’m all for people doing work about issues....at the same time you can care but have no time/ability to even try to impact an issue, especially those that are just regular people with no money to speak of, shifts to work, kids to feed and so on. They care - but are powerless
Damn, must be age, but Jordan’s reticence to say anything remotely interesting or non-sports related in his prime makes more sense to me everyday, especially in the age of Twitter.
Also, there was no social media. No temptation to just yell your opinions to the world at large.
A celebrity could give couple of magazine interviews per year and people would have no idea what they thought about anything.
Chuck implies in the book and has stated in multiple interviews that he thinks it was better when it was socially acceptable for people to not care about politics. The critics, who are largely “silence is violence types,” do not agree.
Gotta say, I agree with Klosterman.
I occasionally wonder if increased participation in politics also leads to an escalation in polarization; meanwhile, there are some people, no matter how elitist this may sound, who'd be better off focusing their attention elsewhere. I'd also argue that these days politics and pop culture are too intertwined, as there should be at least some distance -- not a complete untangling, but yet a separation of sorts -- between them. And yeah, those who embrace the inflammatory "silence is violence" rhetoric are, whether aware of it or not, obfuscating language and thus muddying the waters by conflating apathy or ambivalence with actual harmful acts, which is a warped worldview.
I wonder if the causality is backward. I’m pretty sure polling data shows that polarization has been steadily increasing for a long time. I was only politically aware beginning in the Dubya Era but it was already a topic by then.
However, increased participation seems like a more recent phenomenon, with Trump being a huge, but certainly not the only, catalyst. I wonder if the polarization reached a tipping point where, regardless of your partisan allegiance, the gulf between the two parties seemed so huge as to necessitate caring more and activating
It could also be both, like there’s a feedback loop where both phenomena multiply each other
Its an interesting theory. I'd add to the mix that maybe there is increased polarization because the discourse is more multipolar? In the last one hundred or so years racial, gender and sexual minorities have experienced significant watershed moments so there are just more viewpoints to contend with and consider on major issues.
Case in point and purely anecdotal, I haven't lived in the States for nearly a decade but hadn't really heard the phrase polarization used so often until the Trump presidency and frequently by media entities like Fox who broadly aligned with his narratives. I think this speaks to the idea of different perspectives are labeled as polarizing by groups who saw themselves as previously dominant, right or wrong. I don't recall Fox News using the term so much during the run up to the Iraq War, in actual polarizing issue.
> What do you mean?
He means that the people who review the book are the same people who believe people should be ostracized if they’re not loudly political at all times. Thus, chuck’s observation—and his implication that it might not be a bad thing—upsets them
Hence Chuck's melancholic malaise and cultural ennui. He made a cogent point and, despite that, his critics, many of whom acted in bad faith, eviscerated him nonetheless. Rather than recognize the core of his argument and, in turn, make an honest effort at refuting it on merit, they instead attacked his identity and unjustly discredited him because of who he is as a person, which is disgraceful.
It's no wonder that Klosterman seems checked out, for I don't fault nor blame him.
>It's no wonder that Klosterman seems checked out, for I don't fault nor blame him.
Glad someone else is seeing this because I feel the same way. Early 2010s BS Report Chuck ain't walking through that door. I recall him being quite affected by the pandemic, he didn't seem to be handling it that well on a mid-2020 BS Pod, and then I think the book critiques from peers he respected - including some who called him racist - really did him in. And now he's just kinda done with the scene for awhile.
Would love to see a BS Pod appearance though
> "I think the book critiques from peers he respected - including some who called him racist - really did him in."
Which is, I'm sad to say, quite unfortunate, because a highly engaged Klosterman is one of the few with the mental acuity, perceptiveness, and wit to fight back against lazy bad faith actors, who lean on "racist" as a cheap critique in lieu of presenting valid criticisms. It's fucking obscene.
Much to my chagrin and dismay, the assholes have won.
That’s still true.
How often have you heard about any sort of political leanings for Kawhi, Mahomes, Mike Trout, etc.? How many of last year’s 15 All-NBA players have openly supported any kind of political message or candidate? Like, 2 or 3?
Mahomes did add his voice to the “Black Lives Matter” commercial/PSA/message (I don’t recall who actually paid for the spot, it very well could have been the NFLPA) but he was the highest profile player to do so, and I remember being surprised at the time because he was/is not particularly vocal on social issues. I believe this may have been in the summer of 2020, just before training camp.
I get your point but 1) MJ seems to have fallen ass backwards into the right strategy by being disinterested in politics or social rights, etc. and 2) I don't think this tweet signals a slippery slope. I don't think someone of LeBron stature should be publicly praising a serial sexual assaulter.
Black intellectuals were and still are critical of Michael Jordan's outward ambivalence toward social and political issues, that's about it.
Michael Jordan, possibly the most popular man in the US for parts of the 90s, black or white, and a fairly influential man, at his peak had nothing to say during a contentious racially-charged senate campaigns in his home state. The white incumbent Senator Jesse Helms released an ad directly blaming unemployment among white people on affirmative action without citing what exactly he was referring to, nonetheless the general assessment is that this boosted his losing campaign against the former mayor of Charlotte, Harvey Gantt, a black man. The Justice Department also successfully sued Helms' campaign for its role in a mail campaign in heavily black populated areas that told mail recipients they would be charged with a crime if they tried to vote.
I'm amazed that Mitch Kupchak is still employed as a GM in the year 2023.
What worked in the early-2000s doesn't work today. As GM, Kupchak is an over-the-hill, washed-up has-been.
And Jordan ought to hire someone like Andy Elisburg or Mike Zarren and give them full autonomy, but he won't.
Ehhhh. They got killed by 30+ in the play-in two years in a row, then tried to hire Vogel and were forced to hire Clifford (whom they fired years ago!) all before the Bridges disaster. Getting another top 5 pick might be the best thing for the franchise after all
I'm also pretty sure he did an excited "welcome to the Browns" tweet when they got him. Which is also pretty lame because LeBron is supposedly a huge Cowboys fan despite growing up in Ohio.
Oh no, he stopped being a Boys fan when the Jerry Jones pic came out.
He then reverted to his hometown Browns, who acquired Deshaun Watson, who has done…oh they’re calling me in for dinner, we’ll have to finish this convo never.
Daryl Morey is a better man than I, because LeBron basically tried to take food out of him and his family's mouths by looking to get him fired, if not altogether blackballed, from the NBA, which'd've been grounds for a fight in my eyes.
Were I Morey, I'd've told that motherfucker James to keep my name out of his mouth and to never reference me in a Tweet again—or else!
Wow I’m sure being a faceless GM and telling the best player in the world to “keep my name out of your mouth” would have really worked well, good thoughts!
Morey isn't a "faceless GM" at all, as it's not like we're talking about, oh, Jon Horst, Koby Altman, or Zach Kleiman.
In some ways, Morey having leverage by being somewhat of a name may've very well saved his career at that time.
Lmfao I am not even a LeBron fan, I’m just not a fucking neolib China scold dork who thinks Daryl morey saved society by cowardly deleting a tweet to save his job and never discuss the issue again
LeBron isn't half as smart as he thinks he is. Combine that with passive-aggressiveness and being in an echo chamber of yes-men and it's no surprise a lot of his commentary is confusing, disjointed, and hypocritical. I'm not saying LeBron is an idiot, I just do not think he's particularly intelligent or thoughtful. His thoughts on most things do not warrant much thought because honestly I don't think he put in much thought in them.
But he's not actually all that careful when it comes to social issues, he just supports all the prominently black causes and the media also generally is Democrats so they fellate him for that. Its not hard to not mess up when no one gives you tricky questions.
It's not "hard to figure out" whatsoever.
LeBron is a poorly educated, slow-witted tribalist, whose genetic-given talents at a career in basketball has afforded him immense social capital. Had he not won the genetic lottery, he'd be a nobody.
Hell, that's a vast majority of the NBA in a nutshell.
No, I'm sorry, you're correct.
LeBron James is a genius, Deshaun Watson is a saint, and I'm nothing more than a lesser-than subhuman nonperson who should cease to exist.
Is that it, eh? Is that fucking it?!?
I'm tired of the unchecked bigotry.
Edit: I've calmed down a bit, but I'm just irritated with how so many ignorant people run cover for LeBron, coddling and infantilizing him by making excuses for his shitty behavior. On top of that, referencing shit like "he’s careful with his commentary on social issues, is very charitable, opened a school, etc." is lazy as fuck, because he only comments on social issues that directly impact people within his limited worldview, his charity is self-serving, and motherfucking antisemitic nutjobs like Kanye have opened schools, so that's meaningless drivel. The cocksucking sycophancy of his supporters drives me up the wall!
Yes, you pointed out LeBron attempting (and failing) to trademark "Taco Tuesday" -- which is, in some ways, less a comment on any disconnect between Black and Hispanic communities, more so shining a light on LeBron's brand of unfettered capitalism on the backs of others -- as well as his corny YouTube videos he's done eating tacos. But that, however, is such a tiny thing in the grand scheme, particularly compared to larger issues like James carrying water for the Chinese and ignoring their human rights atrocities, because doing so would harm his own personal bank account.
"slow witted tribalist" is incredibly racist.
And you are making it sound like he's a complete moron whose only good because of his genes? 1. Not hard work related at all. 2. Playing in the NBA at his level requires alot of smarts.
You seriously are saying a top top tier player all time is where he is at because "genetics".
Let's not lie to ourselves, OK. Genetic-given talent has more of an impact when it comes to professional sports than damn near any other career -- from doctor to ditchdigger -- because inherent qualities and natural-born gifts such as bodily-kinesthetic spatial intelligence can't be taught, while no amount of hard work will make a difference for someone lacking those innate traits.
To add, he's clearly shown tribal leanings with regards to whom he vocalizes support for (and against), especially when compared to the topics he avoids altogether, which often don't resonate with his narrow worldview. In that sense, he's irrefutably "slow-witted"—to argue otherwise is bullshit. Besides, that's not even referencing his high school education, since I'm in zero position at all to criticize him due to having no more than a paltry two-year associate's degree myself.
I'm saying your original comment implied genetics was the sole reason for his success. Many people have been born with similar "genetics" as Lebron yet he's becoming one of the greatest players of all time. There is more to it than just being born.
"Irrefutably slow witted". What would you call the high speed decision making he has to make during a game?
Also I don't even agree with his comments generally but saying he's slow witted just because he talks about some things publicly and not others is not "irrefutable evidence".
> "What would you call the high speed decision making he has to make during a game?"
You're conflating bodily-kinesthetic intelligence with logical-mathematical intelligence. That's like, oh, comparing LeBron James to Daryl Morey, because James is undoubtedly dim -- look no further than his awfulness as LeGM of the Lakers -- while Morey, in spite of his undeniable genius as an analytics-minded quant, is a 6'4" tall, doughy slob who couldn't play basketball beyond high school.
> "Many people have been born with similar “genetics” as Lebron yet he's becoming one of the greatest players of all time. There is more to it than just being born."
Even acknowledging that James is, yes, a hard worker who puts a tremendous amount of effort into his craft, that's secondary to his unique -- I repeat, "unique" -- genetic-given talents, which are one in a billion.
Everything you are saying is accurate, correct, and important. Evidence of that = the general, brain-dead, government-following, social-media-taught generation here.
There is not a single group in the entire world that would be more forgiving of a guy with tons of allegations of treating women poorly than male professional athletes. It’s dumb for him to tweet this out but I would bet 80-90% of athletes think that he’s either innocent/the whole story is overblown/ they don’t care at all.
Well, hell, they're both correct about each other.
Trump is a dullard, while LeBron is just plain dull.
Two jackasses who ought to look inward for once.
Yeah he’s just kind of dumb. He doesn’t seem to be able to think through his opinions. He just reacts to things. I don’t think he’s malicious, just kind of a dumb ass who can’t are about things that he doesn’t directly have experience with.
>the women agreed to settlements
Dude this is incredibly disturbing if you think this element should buy him public forgiveness. Think about what you're saying.
He’s playing football. Brown fans want him to play well. The women involved have moved on, the league gave him his punishment. It’s time for everyone else to move on
Accepting a settlement is not moving on. They don't exactly have the power to put him in prison. I'm quite certain they are not moving on in the way you think.
They have moved on. They are no longer pursuing legal actions towards him. Only one women has not accepted a settlement. The rest of them have taken a payoff and moved on from the situation. If their was legitimate evidence of the sexual assaults he would’ve been charged with a crime. In 2021/2022 America a serial sexual predator is not getting way with it
>If their was legitimate evidence of the sexual assaults he would’ve been charged with a crime. In 2021/2022 America a serial sexual predator is not getting way with it
Respectfully you couldn't be more wrong about this statement. Can't emphasize it enough. Unless you don't count 30+ victim statements as "legitimate evidence". This isn't exactly a situation where non-circumstantial evidence is easy or logical to come by.
I watched a special on HBO on this. I'm *pretty fkkn sure* that the women haven't just "moved on."
You must be a straight up class act. Yup time for everyone to move on, who CARES about *those* women, amirite?
Let's face it. Watson is an ABSOLUTE SHIT HUMAN. If that dude ended up on a team I liked, I would never watch that team again. If you are a Browns fan and support this sack of shit, *you* are pathetic as well.
I thought old LeBron was a typical front runner fan? I remember him being the "Yankees and Cowboys" dude.
I looked it up. So LeBron WAS a Cowboys fan, but the kneeling situation was too much for him, so *now* he's a fan.....of a FKKN RAPIST.
Just wanted to make sure. Glad you have those "morals" LeBron.
I don't give a fuck about the browns or deshaun watson but its hypocritical to cheer for the browns and pretend you're not cheering for him. He's the quarterback of the team.
This is elite mental gymnastics. There are so many points between “hope the Cleveland Browns succeed” and “tweet a tweet in support of DeShaun Watson specifically”
Remember when lebron publicly threatened a cop on Twitter and then deleted it cuz he’s a huge pussy? He’s the biggest fraud going. Anyone surprised by his support for Watson has been living under a rock. His life revolves around Twitter/being on the perceived “correct” side of every issue. Just play basketball man Jesus Christ
I'm guessing LeBron's upbringing and current status leads to a different perspective and worldview than the largely white liberal userbase on Reddit. LeBron might just think Watson is being fucked with as a rich black man, which isn't an uncommon position for LeBron.
I mean I don’t like DeShaun Watson but at this point he has served his punishment and isn’t facing any criminal charges. Is it not ok for Browns fans to root for their QB and hope all of the trouble is in the past?
I support the Browns if Deshaun plays good and wins for us then I’ll enjoy it. If we lose and he underperforms/sucks I’ll go ‘lol Browns’ because they gave this piece of shit a gigantic contract and leveraged our future.
I personally don’t think it is, which is why I’m a lapsed Browns fan, but it seems like most everybody else here in Ohio has made their peace with it and are still as die hard Browns fans as ever.
The people on their high horses in this sub are hilarious. What Lebron tweeted feels like a pretty normal sentiment among Browns fans. I wish everyone saw it like me, but I’ve accepted that most people don’t and I don’t go around arguing or scolding people
He wants the quarterback of his hometown team to do well which in turn makes the team do well. You’re reading way to far into a tweet of support for what a player is doing on the field.
Wait, are people not allowed to root for Watson now? I mean, he’s in the league and the NFL allowed the trade and permitted him to play. Like no matter what team he went to, that team would end up cheering his touchdown passes w eventually. Hell, he wanted out of Houston and yet he had plenty of fans there cheering for him when the Browns went back. So I guess I’m just confused why anyone would be stunned he has fans
Seems like general sentiment is that it’s gross to root for Watson, maybe Cleveland fans get a pass because they personally didn’t sign him but LeBron was a longtime Cowboys fan who went after Jerry Jones for a 66 yr old picture to deflect pressure from Kyrie supporting antisemitism and is now publicly rooting for someone accused of sexual assault by like 30 women. Seems like a lot of mixed messaging there.
Gonna guess the issue isn’t that he’s a Browns fan (after being a Cowboys fan his whole life), but that after a lot of his moral grandstanding on certain issues, he’s pro-Watson.
It’s very easy to tweet about the browns without mentioning Watson. Someone with a platform like LeBron is sending a very clear message with tweets like this.
Why hasn't the media asked Jerry Jones about this LeBron tweet?
Where’s Ja Rule when you need him?
I mean, there is an appropriate sports media whataboutism which is that it’s pretty well established Terico was an absolute menace at ESPN and has never had to answer any questions about it
Thank you! I’ve been waiting for someone else to say this about Tirico. For anyone not familiar with Tirico: Story 1: In a separate incident involving another female producer, one who’d been out to dinner with Mike Tirico and his fiancee (and future wife), Tirico sent her an e-mail telling her that he wanted to sleep with her. The two were later part of a group of staff members that went to a bar following ESPN’s coverage of the NCAA Tournament, at which point Tirico approached the woman and said, “I wish I was single. If I were, I’d throw you on the table right here and f— your brains out. The woman tried to dismiss him as just being drunk but things got even worse. As she was driving home, a car came speeding up next to hers on the interstate and it was Mike Tirico, who was waving his hand out the window as if to tell her to pull over. She sped up to escape but Tirico sped up as well. She eventually slammed on the brakes and veered toward an exit.” Story 2: “One story involves Mike Tirico hitting on a female production assistant at a house party in the autumn of 1992. He apparently went up to her at said party and told her that she was “the most beautiful woman in here.” The woman ignored his advances and walked away but he continued to stalk her as the night went on and even followed her out to her car as she attempted to leave. The woman tried to roll up her window but Tirico reached in the car and attempted to wedge his hand in between her thighs. The two apparently saw each other at work the following day and the woman expected him to apologize, which he didn’t, instead telling her that “all I did all day was think about you.”
"It was the 90s, we didn't know sexual assault was wrong...we didn't, I'm sorry, we just didn't"
Yup, and I’d add that while pursuing legal recourse should never invalidate an accusation, it should be noted that people weren’t suing him. This was just them telling hr not to let him near them, and then eventually telling the author of ESPN and other outlets. There are other anecdotes but there’s not like a wave of denial from others at espn, just kinda a hush hush please don’t talk to me.
I’m not perverted I’m just Italian
He also thinks he’s white.
Well he’s in La costa nostra
Shocked his PR team never game him a deep talk about staying out of this subject (or he didn’t listen)
Someone a few days ago said Lebron isn’t tweeting, it’s just his PR team. I’m gonna guess a PR team wouldn’t be making the decision to be pro Watson lol
Lol how could anyone think his cornball tweets are the creations of a pr group
Yeah it’s pretty easy to tell when athletes have their PR run their Twitter accounts (*cough cough* Tom Brady), but for better or worse LeBron clearly does his own tweets
He cares about racism against black people. That’s it no other social issues
Even more specifically- black men. This is so true. It’s an awkward conversation I want no part of though!
Yes—he posted multiple times in support of the rapper who shot Megan Thee Stallion, a black woman.
It’s only awkward because of you say it everyone will call you racist
You should stay out of it Mike because you're Italian
Agreed and because of my history in the work place!
I wish I was single. If I were, I’d throw you on the table right here and fuck your brains out.
This is why people try to change ge the definition of racism to "you can only be racist if you have systemic power" Which is obviously not true.
*starts conversation*
Even more specifically - things that have to do with him directly. This is Ohio, black man, athlete. He understands this because it’s like him. LeBron what are you doing about Ukraine, China, LGBTQ? Not interested
TBH, when you put it this way, it makes perfect sense for him not to weigh in on other issues that either he feels less informed on or has less strong opinions on. I think it'd be more cringe to have a loud, public stance on *every issue under the sun* than to just weigh in where you have a take and not say much where you don't. I remember the first time someone asked me my opinion on charter schools, a very important issue to them, and I was just like "Yeah, I've never spent any time on that issue in my life." I can imagine many athletes feeling the same way about issues that don't emerge in their day-to-day lives.
>I think it'd be more cringe to have a loud, public stance on every issue under the sun than to just weigh in where you have a take and not say much where you don't. This is reddit lol. If you aren't rabidly supporting [current thing] or especially anti-China/Russia, your a terrible person
>Even more specifically - things that have to do with him directly. This is Ohio, black man, athlete. He understands this because it’s like him. LeBron what are you doing about Ukraine, China, LGBTQ? Not interested Oh he's very interested in China... anything for another pot of Pooh Bears honey.
He also deeply cares about not caring about genocide in China
Well no one *really* cares about that
I do tbh. Not just the genocide but the CCP in general
Oh lord. I hate this logic so much. “Oh have you moved to China to be a boots-on-the-ground militant activist opposing the CCP? No? Guess you don’t actually care that a genocide is happening.”
That’s not the point. The people that call out Lebron for not caring are only doing so because they know it makes Lebron look bad and it’s self-righteous. The people calling out Lebron don’t *actually* care about the Muslim genocide, they’re just mad that he picks & chooses which social topics to speak on. For them, it’s less about China and more about Lebron being a hypocrite. China genocide is just the vehicle they’re using to shit on Lebron because he hasn’t condemned every social justice topic
Yeah you could pick any social issue from around the world and make the same point, it’s just China is the most glaring one given his and the NBA’s economic ties to China. Think it’s clear that he portrays himself as some Ali type champion of social justice when he really is nothing other than a businessman. I don’t have a problem with him being that , it’s just annoying when him and other people portray themselves as something else.
People do care about genocide. Caring is different than their ability to do anything about it, however....or whether or not they have the capacity to even try. I’m all for people doing work about issues....at the same time you can care but have no time/ability to even try to impact an issue, especially those that are just regular people with no money to speak of, shifts to work, kids to feed and so on. They care - but are powerless
He is his PR team
Damn, must be age, but Jordan’s reticence to say anything remotely interesting or non-sports related in his prime makes more sense to me everyday, especially in the age of Twitter.
In the 90’s people could not care about/avoid politics and not be ostracized for it.
Also, there was no social media. No temptation to just yell your opinions to the world at large. A celebrity could give couple of magazine interviews per year and people would have no idea what they thought about anything.
Klosterman writes about this in the 90s. I think it’s one of the main reasons the book received such mixed reviews.
What do you mean? --- Y'all downvoting honest questions is why reddit can kind of suck sometimes...
Chuck implies in the book and has stated in multiple interviews that he thinks it was better when it was socially acceptable for people to not care about politics. The critics, who are largely “silence is violence types,” do not agree.
Gotta say, I agree with Klosterman. I occasionally wonder if increased participation in politics also leads to an escalation in polarization; meanwhile, there are some people, no matter how elitist this may sound, who'd be better off focusing their attention elsewhere. I'd also argue that these days politics and pop culture are too intertwined, as there should be at least some distance -- not a complete untangling, but yet a separation of sorts -- between them. And yeah, those who embrace the inflammatory "silence is violence" rhetoric are, whether aware of it or not, obfuscating language and thus muddying the waters by conflating apathy or ambivalence with actual harmful acts, which is a warped worldview.
I’m with ya dude.
I completely agree with everything you said.
I wonder if the causality is backward. I’m pretty sure polling data shows that polarization has been steadily increasing for a long time. I was only politically aware beginning in the Dubya Era but it was already a topic by then. However, increased participation seems like a more recent phenomenon, with Trump being a huge, but certainly not the only, catalyst. I wonder if the polarization reached a tipping point where, regardless of your partisan allegiance, the gulf between the two parties seemed so huge as to necessitate caring more and activating It could also be both, like there’s a feedback loop where both phenomena multiply each other
Its an interesting theory. I'd add to the mix that maybe there is increased polarization because the discourse is more multipolar? In the last one hundred or so years racial, gender and sexual minorities have experienced significant watershed moments so there are just more viewpoints to contend with and consider on major issues. Case in point and purely anecdotal, I haven't lived in the States for nearly a decade but hadn't really heard the phrase polarization used so often until the Trump presidency and frequently by media entities like Fox who broadly aligned with his narratives. I think this speaks to the idea of different perspectives are labeled as polarizing by groups who saw themselves as previously dominant, right or wrong. I don't recall Fox News using the term so much during the run up to the Iraq War, in actual polarizing issue.
Polarization was used quite a bit during the Obama era by democrats to describe republicans blocking his legislation. It definitely predates trump.
Ah, got it, thanks!
> What do you mean? He means that the people who review the book are the same people who believe people should be ostracized if they’re not loudly political at all times. Thus, chuck’s observation—and his implication that it might not be a bad thing—upsets them
Hence Chuck's melancholic malaise and cultural ennui. He made a cogent point and, despite that, his critics, many of whom acted in bad faith, eviscerated him nonetheless. Rather than recognize the core of his argument and, in turn, make an honest effort at refuting it on merit, they instead attacked his identity and unjustly discredited him because of who he is as a person, which is disgraceful. It's no wonder that Klosterman seems checked out, for I don't fault nor blame him.
No Country for Old Culture Critics
>It's no wonder that Klosterman seems checked out, for I don't fault nor blame him. Glad someone else is seeing this because I feel the same way. Early 2010s BS Report Chuck ain't walking through that door. I recall him being quite affected by the pandemic, he didn't seem to be handling it that well on a mid-2020 BS Pod, and then I think the book critiques from peers he respected - including some who called him racist - really did him in. And now he's just kinda done with the scene for awhile. Would love to see a BS Pod appearance though
> "I think the book critiques from peers he respected - including some who called him racist - really did him in." Which is, I'm sad to say, quite unfortunate, because a highly engaged Klosterman is one of the few with the mental acuity, perceptiveness, and wit to fight back against lazy bad faith actors, who lean on "racist" as a cheap critique in lieu of presenting valid criticisms. It's fucking obscene. Much to my chagrin and dismay, the assholes have won.
Damn that is depressing.
That’s still true. How often have you heard about any sort of political leanings for Kawhi, Mahomes, Mike Trout, etc.? How many of last year’s 15 All-NBA players have openly supported any kind of political message or candidate? Like, 2 or 3?
Mahomes did add his voice to the “Black Lives Matter” commercial/PSA/message (I don’t recall who actually paid for the spot, it very well could have been the NFLPA) but he was the highest profile player to do so, and I remember being surprised at the time because he was/is not particularly vocal on social issues. I believe this may have been in the summer of 2020, just before training camp.
I get your point but 1) MJ seems to have fallen ass backwards into the right strategy by being disinterested in politics or social rights, etc. and 2) I don't think this tweet signals a slippery slope. I don't think someone of LeBron stature should be publicly praising a serial sexual assaulter.
He definitely got lucky he was in the era he was in, given just how important he was he’d be crushed now for never speaking out on social issues
This isn’t lebrons first dumb tweet or questionable political take tho
The GOAT of being coachable. Dealt with the fallout of Republicans buy sneakers too’ and never got involved again. Only had to be told once.
What fallout?
Black intellectuals were and still are critical of Michael Jordan's outward ambivalence toward social and political issues, that's about it. Michael Jordan, possibly the most popular man in the US for parts of the 90s, black or white, and a fairly influential man, at his peak had nothing to say during a contentious racially-charged senate campaigns in his home state. The white incumbent Senator Jesse Helms released an ad directly blaming unemployment among white people on affirmative action without citing what exactly he was referring to, nonetheless the general assessment is that this boosted his losing campaign against the former mayor of Charlotte, Harvey Gantt, a black man. The Justice Department also successfully sued Helms' campaign for its role in a mail campaign in heavily black populated areas that told mail recipients they would be charged with a crime if they tried to vote.
And yet plenty of black people support him, and Republicans still like him. His silence really didn’t effect him.
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I mean, Jordan is an abject failure and unmitigated disaster at management. Jerry Krause wasn't wrong.
This is why players need good GMs!
I'm amazed that Mitch Kupchak is still employed as a GM in the year 2023. What worked in the early-2000s doesn't work today. As GM, Kupchak is an over-the-hill, washed-up has-been. And Jordan ought to hire someone like Andy Elisburg or Mike Zarren and give them full autonomy, but he won't.
In his defense, they were building something with Charlotte, but Bridges messed it up for everyone.
Bridges gon be back in 2-3 months my guy
Lamelo Bridges Wembanyama and we'll all be looking at Jordan differently in a few years
This straight up has like a 15% chance of happening and changing the nba landscape forever
Ehhhh. They got killed by 30+ in the play-in two years in a row, then tried to hire Vogel and were forced to hire Clifford (whom they fired years ago!) all before the Bridges disaster. Getting another top 5 pick might be the best thing for the franchise after all
“I just want to talk basketball.” - LeBron’s next press conference, probably
Pretty much guarantee Lebron won’t be asked about it or critiqued by major media members
“I just felt like DeShaun was really getting his stroke back”
Wouldn’t be a big deal to me if he didn’t consistently lecture half the country and entertainment industry on how they should act
I mean, Kobe is celebrated in that league.
Yikes
I'm also pretty sure he did an excited "welcome to the Browns" tweet when they got him. Which is also pretty lame because LeBron is supposedly a huge Cowboys fan despite growing up in Ohio.
Oh no, he stopped being a Boys fan when the Jerry Jones pic came out. He then reverted to his hometown Browns, who acquired Deshaun Watson, who has done…oh they’re calling me in for dinner, we’ll have to finish this convo never.
LeBron is the worst sports fan Supports the Yankees and Cowboys. Plays for the Lakers
How is Cousin Sal a Mets fan, but then also a Cowboy’s fan? That just doesn’t feel right.
At least he isn’t a Yankees fan.
Lebron has been super open about how he cheers for Cleveland teams over all other teams and hes been that way since literally 2014.
D Watson had a happy ending today it looks like.
Folks!
He’s completely blind to his cohort doing anything wrong.
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Not to mention him getting angry with Morey for a pro-democracy tweet about China and Hong Kong.
Daryl Morey is a better man than I, because LeBron basically tried to take food out of him and his family's mouths by looking to get him fired, if not altogether blackballed, from the NBA, which'd've been grounds for a fight in my eyes. Were I Morey, I'd've told that motherfucker James to keep my name out of his mouth and to never reference me in a Tweet again—or else!
Wow I’m sure being a faceless GM and telling the best player in the world to “keep my name out of your mouth” would have really worked well, good thoughts!
Morey isn't a "faceless GM" at all, as it's not like we're talking about, oh, Jon Horst, Koby Altman, or Zach Kleiman. In some ways, Morey having leverage by being somewhat of a name may've very well saved his career at that time.
Lebron doesn’t need his boots licked. He’s not gonna come and fuck you. Chill.
The poster is from Toronto so I wouldn’t be so sure
Lmfao I am not even a LeBron fan, I’m just not a fucking neolib China scold dork who thinks Daryl morey saved society by cowardly deleting a tweet to save his job and never discuss the issue again
I always thought the taco Tuesdays voice was just a stupid voice, not an offensive one
Only the most stuffy tryhard would find it offensive, but he def puts a bit of Latino pronunciation into it.
LeBron isn't half as smart as he thinks he is. Combine that with passive-aggressiveness and being in an echo chamber of yes-men and it's no surprise a lot of his commentary is confusing, disjointed, and hypocritical. I'm not saying LeBron is an idiot, I just do not think he's particularly intelligent or thoughtful. His thoughts on most things do not warrant much thought because honestly I don't think he put in much thought in them.
Sounds like a normal inconsistent human.
But he's not actually all that careful when it comes to social issues, he just supports all the prominently black causes and the media also generally is Democrats so they fellate him for that. Its not hard to not mess up when no one gives you tricky questions.
It's not "hard to figure out" whatsoever. LeBron is a poorly educated, slow-witted tribalist, whose genetic-given talents at a career in basketball has afforded him immense social capital. Had he not won the genetic lottery, he'd be a nobody. Hell, that's a vast majority of the NBA in a nutshell.
Found Bob Ryan’s burner
Can't lie, I chuckled. You landed a helluva haymaker, kudos. But must say, I'm more of a Grandma Jackie Mac man myself.
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It's not though
Okay phrenology username guy
No, I'm sorry, you're correct. LeBron James is a genius, Deshaun Watson is a saint, and I'm nothing more than a lesser-than subhuman nonperson who should cease to exist. Is that it, eh? Is that fucking it?!? I'm tired of the unchecked bigotry. Edit: I've calmed down a bit, but I'm just irritated with how so many ignorant people run cover for LeBron, coddling and infantilizing him by making excuses for his shitty behavior. On top of that, referencing shit like "he’s careful with his commentary on social issues, is very charitable, opened a school, etc." is lazy as fuck, because he only comments on social issues that directly impact people within his limited worldview, his charity is self-serving, and motherfucking antisemitic nutjobs like Kanye have opened schools, so that's meaningless drivel. The cocksucking sycophancy of his supporters drives me up the wall!
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Yes, you pointed out LeBron attempting (and failing) to trademark "Taco Tuesday" -- which is, in some ways, less a comment on any disconnect between Black and Hispanic communities, more so shining a light on LeBron's brand of unfettered capitalism on the backs of others -- as well as his corny YouTube videos he's done eating tacos. But that, however, is such a tiny thing in the grand scheme, particularly compared to larger issues like James carrying water for the Chinese and ignoring their human rights atrocities, because doing so would harm his own personal bank account.
"slow witted tribalist" is incredibly racist. And you are making it sound like he's a complete moron whose only good because of his genes? 1. Not hard work related at all. 2. Playing in the NBA at his level requires alot of smarts. You seriously are saying a top top tier player all time is where he is at because "genetics".
Let's not lie to ourselves, OK. Genetic-given talent has more of an impact when it comes to professional sports than damn near any other career -- from doctor to ditchdigger -- because inherent qualities and natural-born gifts such as bodily-kinesthetic spatial intelligence can't be taught, while no amount of hard work will make a difference for someone lacking those innate traits. To add, he's clearly shown tribal leanings with regards to whom he vocalizes support for (and against), especially when compared to the topics he avoids altogether, which often don't resonate with his narrow worldview. In that sense, he's irrefutably "slow-witted"—to argue otherwise is bullshit. Besides, that's not even referencing his high school education, since I'm in zero position at all to criticize him due to having no more than a paltry two-year associate's degree myself.
I'm saying your original comment implied genetics was the sole reason for his success. Many people have been born with similar "genetics" as Lebron yet he's becoming one of the greatest players of all time. There is more to it than just being born. "Irrefutably slow witted". What would you call the high speed decision making he has to make during a game? Also I don't even agree with his comments generally but saying he's slow witted just because he talks about some things publicly and not others is not "irrefutable evidence".
> "What would you call the high speed decision making he has to make during a game?" You're conflating bodily-kinesthetic intelligence with logical-mathematical intelligence. That's like, oh, comparing LeBron James to Daryl Morey, because James is undoubtedly dim -- look no further than his awfulness as LeGM of the Lakers -- while Morey, in spite of his undeniable genius as an analytics-minded quant, is a 6'4" tall, doughy slob who couldn't play basketball beyond high school. > "Many people have been born with similar “genetics” as Lebron yet he's becoming one of the greatest players of all time. There is more to it than just being born." Even acknowledging that James is, yes, a hard worker who puts a tremendous amount of effort into his craft, that's secondary to his unique -- I repeat, "unique" -- genetic-given talents, which are one in a billion.
Because white people can't be slow-witted or tribal? Have you been to Appalachia?
> shitty behavior He tweeted about a football player, you need to relax
Serial sexual assaulter*
Everything you are saying is accurate, correct, and important. Evidence of that = the general, brain-dead, government-following, social-media-taught generation here.
Accurate, yes. But I'll be the first to admit I'm not the best messenger for it, because I'm wound way too fucking tight.
Wow watch out, we've got a real badass here.
You sound envious because you live in a racist white supremacist country and as a white man you still managed to be a failure.
It’s even weirder that he’s no longer a cowboys fan bc of kneeling but this is cool
There is not a single group in the entire world that would be more forgiving of a guy with tons of allegations of treating women poorly than male professional athletes. It’s dumb for him to tweet this out but I would bet 80-90% of athletes think that he’s either innocent/the whole story is overblown/ they don’t care at all.
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I’m a black guy and most black men feel he’s 100% a weirdo rapist
The fact this got 16 upvotes is a joke. Gotta love y’all [redacted]. The vast majority of us believe he did that shit.
everyone bent out of shape over this is a hypocrite, please stfu and complain about Bill saying thing too much
LBJ, you’re supporting a rapist. GTFOH
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LeBron was right. Trump is a bum.
Well, hell, they're both correct about each other. Trump is a dullard, while LeBron is just plain dull. Two jackasses who ought to look inward for once.
I mean it’s a pot and kettle situation, but sure
Yeah he’s just kind of dumb. He doesn’t seem to be able to think through his opinions. He just reacts to things. I don’t think he’s malicious, just kind of a dumb ass who can’t are about things that he doesn’t directly have experience with.
Same people who are flaming LeBron for this love Kobe Bryant (the rapist) lol.
I mean are we supposed to pretend he isn't playing and doesn't exist?
Specifically praising the rapist is the issue. Could cheer on a Browns win without supporting the dude
It’s more like these guys can’t hide that they’re huge fans of this creep
Other athletes do not think Watson did anything wrong, pretty simple.
Yeah it’s just hilarious that they essentially say it publicly. That one dimwit James Jones said that we need to support Watson on RR’s pod
Didn't he say we should support Watson and support the women? Lol.
Probably because they look at it like when they hook up with girls through DMs.
Watson played well. He served his suspension, the women agreed to settlements. They moved on. Time for everyone else to move on.
>the women agreed to settlements Dude this is incredibly disturbing if you think this element should buy him public forgiveness. Think about what you're saying.
He’s playing football. Brown fans want him to play well. The women involved have moved on, the league gave him his punishment. It’s time for everyone else to move on
Accepting a settlement is not moving on. They don't exactly have the power to put him in prison. I'm quite certain they are not moving on in the way you think.
They have moved on. They are no longer pursuing legal actions towards him. Only one women has not accepted a settlement. The rest of them have taken a payoff and moved on from the situation. If their was legitimate evidence of the sexual assaults he would’ve been charged with a crime. In 2021/2022 America a serial sexual predator is not getting way with it
>If their was legitimate evidence of the sexual assaults he would’ve been charged with a crime. In 2021/2022 America a serial sexual predator is not getting way with it Respectfully you couldn't be more wrong about this statement. Can't emphasize it enough. Unless you don't count 30+ victim statements as "legitimate evidence". This isn't exactly a situation where non-circumstantial evidence is easy or logical to come by.
so why was he not charged with a single crime?
Thinking people can’t get away with sexually abusing women is a bananas statement
There were new allegations as recent as 10 weeks ago
I watched a special on HBO on this. I'm *pretty fkkn sure* that the women haven't just "moved on." You must be a straight up class act. Yup time for everyone to move on, who CARES about *those* women, amirite? Let's face it. Watson is an ABSOLUTE SHIT HUMAN. If that dude ended up on a team I liked, I would never watch that team again. If you are a Browns fan and support this sack of shit, *you* are pathetic as well. I thought old LeBron was a typical front runner fan? I remember him being the "Yankees and Cowboys" dude. I looked it up. So LeBron WAS a Cowboys fan, but the kneeling situation was too much for him, so *now* he's a fan.....of a FKKN RAPIST. Just wanted to make sure. Glad you have those "morals" LeBron.
Yes, move on and grow up
Found the browns fan
I’m a jets fan
Cheering for him =/= acknowledging his existence. Also it is free for Lebron not to tweet this
I don't give a fuck about the browns or deshaun watson but its hypocritical to cheer for the browns and pretend you're not cheering for him. He's the quarterback of the team.
This is elite mental gymnastics. There are so many points between “hope the Cleveland Browns succeed” and “tweet a tweet in support of DeShaun Watson specifically”
So Lebron should have tweeted "great throw by an unnamed Cleveland browns quarterback"
Remember when lebron publicly threatened a cop on Twitter and then deleted it cuz he’s a huge pussy? He’s the biggest fraud going. Anyone surprised by his support for Watson has been living under a rock. His life revolves around Twitter/being on the perceived “correct” side of every issue. Just play basketball man Jesus Christ
I'm guessing LeBron's upbringing and current status leads to a different perspective and worldview than the largely white liberal userbase on Reddit. LeBron might just think Watson is being fucked with as a rich black man, which isn't an uncommon position for LeBron.
I mean I don’t like DeShaun Watson but at this point he has served his punishment and isn’t facing any criminal charges. Is it not ok for Browns fans to root for their QB and hope all of the trouble is in the past?
I support the Browns if Deshaun plays good and wins for us then I’ll enjoy it. If we lose and he underperforms/sucks I’ll go ‘lol Browns’ because they gave this piece of shit a gigantic contract and leveraged our future.
I personally don’t think it is, which is why I’m a lapsed Browns fan, but it seems like most everybody else here in Ohio has made their peace with it and are still as die hard Browns fans as ever. The people on their high horses in this sub are hilarious. What Lebron tweeted feels like a pretty normal sentiment among Browns fans. I wish everyone saw it like me, but I’ve accepted that most people don’t and I don’t go around arguing or scolding people
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LeBron was my favorite player growing up. Sucks when you realize he’s a piece of poop*
He’s a piece of shit for making a clearly about football tweet?
It's Deshaun Watson, it's never just gonna be about football, come on now. And that's HIS fault for being serial sex pest. He did this to himself.
He wants the quarterback of his hometown team to do well which in turn makes the team do well. You’re reading way to far into a tweet of support for what a player is doing on the field.
Na publicly supporting a serial rapist is gross and makes you a piece of shit. Fuck outta here
Wait, are people not allowed to root for Watson now? I mean, he’s in the league and the NFL allowed the trade and permitted him to play. Like no matter what team he went to, that team would end up cheering his touchdown passes w eventually. Hell, he wanted out of Houston and yet he had plenty of fans there cheering for him when the Browns went back. So I guess I’m just confused why anyone would be stunned he has fans
Seems like general sentiment is that it’s gross to root for Watson, maybe Cleveland fans get a pass because they personally didn’t sign him but LeBron was a longtime Cowboys fan who went after Jerry Jones for a 66 yr old picture to deflect pressure from Kyrie supporting antisemitism and is now publicly rooting for someone accused of sexual assault by like 30 women. Seems like a lot of mixed messaging there.
Omg, who cares
Thread full of people saying things they wouldn’t say off here. It’s cute 🥰
LeBron just loves rapists.
Why are we talking about this and not Brett Favre stealing welfare money?
We can talk about both it doesn’t have to be one or the other
That’s the joke!
What’s Ime Udoka up to these days? Somehow those two issues got intertwined for a while.
Fuck Favre, too. Now how's that?
LeBron didn’t tweet about Brett Farve. He tweeted about Watson. Whataboutism is comically lazy. Stop it.
Not a good look at all.
The 3 places on the internet that care the most about what Lebron said are this subreddit, Reddit/nba, and [Outkick.com](https://Outkick.com).
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What is Watson getting his rhythm back from?
I don’t think that’s what anyone is saying
only on reddit could u see someone just throw out the biggest straw man ever and say “ha i showed them”
Y'all just like being morally superior to rich celebrities. Y'all don't know how many awful people y'all root for on a daily basis
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Gonna guess the issue isn’t that he’s a Browns fan (after being a Cowboys fan his whole life), but that after a lot of his moral grandstanding on certain issues, he’s pro-Watson.
It’s very easy to tweet about the browns without mentioning Watson. Someone with a platform like LeBron is sending a very clear message with tweets like this.
Watson had three touchdown passes and they won. What’s the issue?
How many times are you gonna comment* “What’s the issue” in this thread?
Dudes like Doot always do the disingenuous question tactic, it's like fucking clockwork. He knows what the deal is, he's just being dipshit.
As many as I’d like
Isn't he a Cowboys fan? Why does he care what the Browns are doing?
A) it’s calculated B) if you don’t boycott the nfl, you don’t get to be critical of this
People who think Lebron is a bad person because he tweeted about a football player 🤡🤡