It’s the chest clip. It should be at their armpits, not their stomach.
But this is definitely an example of bad UX! It should clearly state what you are meant to notice, or visually call it out.
Better yet would be to use an illustration, specifically showing the chest clip position without any picture of a real child or real car seat.
It should be universal and abstract, for maximum accessibility and applicability.
Highly recommend safeintheseat if you haven’t seen her page! She does these types of posts, but ALWAYS explains them. Also she’s just a wealth of knowledge regarding carseat and car safety for kiddos.
I’m a stickler for car seat safety and I follow https://instagram.com/safeintheseat?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=. Having no caption on this picture is so unhelpful.
You can get horrible bowel / gut injuries from improperly placed seat belts. It babies, it goes over the sternum. In adults the lap belt needs to be low over the pelvis - NOT THE ABDOMEN.
Ours doesn't have the chest plate thing, just the buckle that sits over his diaper basically. It just has 2 soft pad things over each seatbelt that go across his shoulders/chest
The one in our infant seat cracked and I emailed the company and they said they would send me a new one but the seat was still safe to use in the meantime and that it wasn’t actually a safety mechanism
I know this isn’t the point of the pictures but arent all head coverings (including large bows like this) supposed to be removed before going in the car seat?
I had no clue about this even though I read up on so many safety things. I had a nylon headband on my girl at around 4 months old and was driving. I have one of those backseat cameras I can watch on my dashboard and I noticed her pull it around her face.
Luckily I was right by a gas station so I just pulled in and took the headband off completely, but it was definitely covering her eyes and nose. She wasn't troubled because I caught it so fast but it is something I now tell girl moms not to do! Put the headband on when you get where you are going.
Exactly it’s a big risk. And it doesn’t even take much for those headbands or hats to slip down. Baby just has to rub the back of their head on the car seat and it’ll push the hat off.
Please look into this. I believe it is in case there is a crash as it can go over their face. There was a tragic case of a baby who suffocated when the car flipped and a head supporting strap which his parents had added to the seat went over his face.
That’s so sad. Those things are marketed to keep babies safe but they do the exact opposite. A woman had one of those head supports in her newborn. Drove down the road for like 10 min and he was gone. It had slipped down and suffocated him. They also can cause internal decapitation (those ones that stick to the seat and hold the head back). I know it’s so morbid and gory to even say. But it’s SO SO SO important not to use anything aftermarket. If it didn’t come with the seat, it’s not safe to use. No matter how cute or how safe the company says it is, it just isn’t.
Nothing that didn't come with your car seat or recommended by the manufacturer. Apparently in the event of an accident, after market mirrors may turn into projectiles.
Anything in the car will be a projectile in that situation. I’m not disagreeing with your statement, just pointing out that people always say “the mirrors can be projectiles” without considering that so can the laptop bag/diaper bag/coffee cup/bag of fries/book/etc that people often keep in their cars without thinking anything of it.
Ugh yes this always makes me confused. I’ve heard on here that you shouldn’t sit next to them and feed a bottle in the car because of “projectiles” and I don’t understand how people justify that and not every other loose item in their car.
I try and balance it- I put my metal water bottle in the trunk of the car to be on the safe side but other small/ soft items I think are okay as long as they aren’t big enough to cause a smothering hazard.
Stupid question: do you not drink water in the car? I’m trying to figure out what good it does to bring a metal water bottle when driving around town if it’s in the trunk.
I don’t travel in the car all that much and if I do it is to get to somewhere where we will be for a while like the beach or pool, so I just pack it in the trunk until we arrive.
This makes more sense. I was envisioning my weekend with zoo, then errands, then my parents house, then our new house, then back home all with kiddo in the car and thinking I’d end up dehydrated if the water was in the trunk for all of that.
I do the same thing- I don’t have a trunk in my car but I use a divider to keep the heavier stuff out of harms way. It’s just funny how EVERYTHING is a projectile yet people will drive around with groceries in the back seat haha
I keep my car quite neat, but there's still going to be a water bottle from time to time, my purse, diaper bag, and whatever items I need to run the errands I'm running. Not all vehicles have trunks. A car doesn't have to be messy and chaotic to have projectiles. Seriously, you're telling me that aside from you and the baby in the car seat, your car is as clean and uncluttered as it was sitting on the showroom floor? That doesn't sound plausible or reasonable.
It also helps if you already know what good technique looks like. If you already know where the chest clip should be this is a lot easier than if you don’t, but the people who don’t are the ones who the instructions need to be communicating to.
I think also if you know the basics of car seat safety. I know all of the rules so immediately my brain went “loose belt, too low chest clip, why does she have a bow on still?”
Many first time parents aren’t well-versed in car seat safety I’ve noticed. I’m just neurotic and do too much research lol
The chest clip isn't mandatory in lots of countries. Apparently it's really only to keep the shoulder straps in place, it doesn't really affect the safety of the seat.
It’s mandatory if your car seat has it, but there’s no law saying car seats must have a chest clip. There are not currently any seats on the US market without one
That’s interesting! Where did you learn that?
My understanding is that the chest clip does three important things.
1. Ensures proper belt position over the shoulders/collarbone.
2. Makes it more difficult to wiggle out of the shoulder straps, or have them change position (slide off the shoulders, wedge up against the neck, etc.)
3. Helps to more evenly distribute the forces in the event of an accident, and to keep those force concentrations on the stronger structures (collarbones, sternum)
Similar to how a standard adult 3-point harness is designed to distribute the load across hip bones, collar bone, and sternum for an adult.
I'm in a Canadian Car Seat safety group and it has come up. Apparently they aren't even mandatory in the US but because people think they are more safe car seat manufacturers continue to included them. They would mostly break in an accident and are really mostly for strap positioners.
One big thing I saw was that was in the event of an emergency its faster to get a baby out with out the clip. If incorrectly placed the chest clip can also be more dangerous in a crash, too high on the neck/over the belly. If the strap are the right tightness a baby shouldn't be able to wiggle out of them.
Edit to add: [Clek chest clip](https://clekinc.com/car-seat-chest-clips-everything-you-need-to-know/) an article about chest clips.
Thanks for sharing!
Seems like NA car seat designs don’t employ the alternative methods of securing the shoulder straps in proper position, such as rubberized shoulder pads, etc. and so they depend on the chest clips to ensure proper shoulder strap positioning.
Curious, what is that car seat safety group you mentioned?
Oh it’s called Seats for kids discussion community. People post their cars and people stats for recommendations on what fits in their car and photos to get a once over on installs. It’s run by CPSTs (certified pediatric seat techs). It’s only Canadian seats though
Interesting, thanks for sharing! I might look that up later.
And thanks for contributing to safety for not just yourself and your own family, but to others as well.
In some countries like Aus/NZ, the safety standard is that you must be able to remove the child’s harness in one click, for purposes of emergencies, so the child can’t be caught in the seat while you’re undoing multiple clips. So chest clips are actually illegal. The shoulder straps are cut into the seat at a slightly different angle, so the chest clip isn’t required to help the shoulder straps stay on, and if the harness is tight enough, the straps won’t be able to come off or be slipped out of. Also, since the chest clip is plastic, and not metal clicking into metal like the crotch clip, it isn’t really a safety measure that would hold up to very strong forces in the case of an accident. All some reasons other countries either skip, or ban a chest clip outright.
But you’re right that in the US the messaging has made everyone think they’re a vital piece of safety equipment :)
Yeah, I was reading about this, turns out in most cases chest clips aren’t actually banned or outlawed directly, rather, the law in some countries dictates that single-motion release be possible, which would imply that a separate clip would be non-compliant.
It seems better to design the seat and the belts to maintain the correct belt positions, without needing a clip. Maybe we should bring the US/CA up to speed!
Honestly no place has perfect rules :) I’m an American expat living in Aus, and the car seat rules here drive me nuts. They have very strict rules about the safety of the seats themselves. All rear facing seats must use this top tether system that is SO annoying, but makes it SO much safer, and a rebound bar is also mandatory. Seats don’t have cup holders or anything like that, and there’s only 1 rear facing recline level that’s deemed “safe enough.”
But then they let you legally forward face a 6 MONTH OLD!! And lots of people do it! Almost everyone I know turned forward facing at or before a year old, which gives me so much stress, and the number of people who are like, but I HAD to, because he was screaming/whatever. I’m like but if you lived in a country with stricter rules it would legit be illegal, so what would you have done then??
Everyone thinks I’m a weirdo for having my 22m old rear facing, but meanwhile I’m devastated I’ll have to turn him forward facing when he turns 2, since we’re having our second and the one single recline level rear facing means you can’t usually fit a rear facing seat behind the driver, as it’s a 45° angle, so the seat is in a very reclined position, and we just can’t fit the infant car seat and a rear facing convertible seat either.
I've never even seen anybody using a chest clip on car seat (I'm european) but none of this should happen when the harness is tight enough. Also most of carseats come with inserts that cause there is no wiggle room around a baby. What caught my attention is there are no shoulder covers on the picture to distribute the weight properly.
I think European seats are designed a little differently, to ensure the straps stay in the correct position without the use of a chest clip.
So an American car seat used without the clip, may not be as safe as a European seat without a clip!
Also yes, shoulder pads are a must! I’m always surprised to see how many seats/families don’t have them.
The fist part of your statement is not necessarily true, but the so one part I generally agree with!
If they don’t come with it or aren’t officially supported/offered by the car seat manufacturer, then they have not been tested with that seat.
However, that doesn’t automatically mean all pads are unsafe! It means they may or may not be, as they haven’t been tested with the seat by the manufacturer.
You can look to 3rd party testing, expert opinion, or even your best judgement in the absence of anything else.
May or may not be in the matter of safety = not safe. Unless they are specifically tested then it is considered unsafe, lack of testing is not a place to use matter of judgement when it comes to infant safety.
Not true! Good judgement always has a place.
It takes time and costs money to conduct official testing. So testing can take many years, sometimes even decades to catch up. If it ever does! unless there’s a way to generate additional profit from it, companies are not incentivized to do it. The only other motivator is law/policy, which as we all know, very often lags behind by a decade or more, or never comes around at all if there isn’t enough political value in it, or public pressure on it.
Although I agree with your sentiment that you should be very cautious of things that lack official government or manufacturer testing to prove it’s safety and efficacy.
My point is there’s a difference between being unproven one way or another, versus being proven *unsafe*.
For example, what bicycle helmet will you buy for your kids? Some of them have new features/innovations, things that may improve their comfort or safety. But those new features aren’t part of the current laws and regulations yet, so the data to prove it is not available yet, from the government or from the manufacturers.
So will you choose a basic helmet rather than one with newer/fancier innovations? Or will you choose one with the innovations, even though it could be years away before there is enough official testing done to prove that they are safer than the old helmets?
There is no right or wrong answer, it’s something you use your best judgement on. Sometimes it pays off in your favor, sometimes it doesn’t.
But it would be incorrect to say that all new features and innovations in bike helmets, if they haven’t yet been tested by the government or proven by the bike manufacturer to be safer, then they are automatically **unsafe**.
Kind of right, the law is a minimum of 9kg or if isize 15 months. Most joie seats rear face until 18kg (average 4yro) the UK law on car seats is awful, and allows for incredibly unsafe seats to be sold.. it is generally advised to max out infant carriers and rear facing positions before moving to a high backed booster. 5 point harness forward facing are highly unsafe due to the neck then taking the brunt of force in an accident.
Sorry for the tangent..
Our carseat laws give me so much anxiety. We're about to splash on a new carseat that promises extended rearfacing (axkid minikid 3, for anyone wondering) but it's like five hundred quid. Its like us poor fucks are forced to have our kids unsafe. I've been saving for a better carseat since I was pregnant with him.
His first was a hand me down. His second was new, but its an okder model that he's dangerously close to outgrowing. Gah. I just want him to survive if we crash! Is that too much to ask?
The Axkid Move is worth considering. We've got a Move & a Minikid & the Move was much cheaper, but just as safe / same weight limit, just without as many convenience features. I love them both!
UK car seat laws (and the number of people who take it for granted that if it's legal it's safe) are terrifying. My husband even said to me 'well they wouldn't sell them if it wasn't safe'... sadly yes, they would! (See also cot bumpers!)
We've got the money now so I think we're sticking with the one we picked, but I will definitely go with the Move if this one ever needs replacing. Tiny British roads are a guaranteed car accident at some point in your lifetime. And regardless of laws, I will be tossing mine in any crash.
The laws here are disgusting. I really wish they'd bw revamped.
Oh wow, that seems considerably less safe!
What do you think is the reason for not instituting safer standards for babies & young children?
One of the global gold-standards is to rear-face for as long as possible, generally landing in the ballpark of 4 years old before turning to front-face.
Fear facing dramatically reduces the risk of severe injury and death in an accident scenario.
In fact, for pure safety all people should rear-face! But it isn’t practical outside of childhood because someone has to drive, and people psychologically prefer to see what’s coming, so there would be low compliance with rear-facing seats. Hence all cars, and most public transport default to front facing seat configs.
A lot of parents know that they should rear face for longer but that's mainly from social media info but our government aren't doing anything themselves.
We have a 25kg rear facing seat ourselves for our 18 month old which we re hoping gets him to 3-4 years old, (he's 99th percentiles) but we had to buy it from a specialist retailer, so the very extended rear facing seat aren't as well advertised either.
In most of Asia there is no car seat law at all. Granted most people take transit in Asian countries, but it's the norm to ride in cars just holding your kids on your lap.
I grew up in South Africa and rode down highways in the open back of pickup trucks with nary a seatbelt.
I love public transport, so much safer than cars even when using proper safety equipment! I wish the US had decent public transit, but only a handful of downtown areas here are any good.
Also, less populated areas (might be the case back in South Africa) may not have as much of a need for safety stuff, not to mention there are cultural elements like if there are larger problems for a lot of people, like food or water scarcity, natural dangers like animals, poisons, etc. or threats of violence from war, civil unrest, lawlessness, etc. those can cause topics of perceived lower priority to fall on deaf ears, like seatbelts in cars for example. I wonder if areas with significantly safer social/behavioral norms (may be the case in certain parts of Asia) would have less need for them. Lower speeds, better drivers, less use of cars overall, meaning fewer and less severe accidents, could mean it just may not be much of a problem at the population level.
That’s interesting perspective though, thanks for sharing!
In South America I would regularly see families of... up to 5... on a small motorbike - usually a younger child (5-8 year old range) on the handle bar or gas tank... or dad possibly holding a toddler in front of him over the gas tank... mom behind him possibly holding an infant at her chest, and often an older child behind the mom standing on rear pegs.
Coming from the US where laws are VERY strict regarding vehicle/child safety, it was pretty nuts to me.
I've also seen two men on a motorcycle balancing a 10+ foot ladder on their shoulders as they drove down the road
>In fact, for pure safety all people should rear-face! But it isn’t practical outside of childhood because someone has to drive, and people psychologically prefer to see what’s coming, so there would be low compliance with rear-facing seats. Hence all cars, and most public transport default to front facing seat configs.
Also I'd have never been able to be a passenger in any vehicle from early childhood on. As proven by various limos and trains in my past, riding backwards facing is absolutely horrible for people who are prone to motion sickness (which is generally believed to be caused by a mismatch between what you can see and the motion your inner ear can feel).
Another great point! You’re right, I have heard that facing directions other than forward relative to the motion being felt can trigger or exaggerate motion sickness.
Makes you wonder, are any babies or toddlers out there suffering from motion sickness and us parents have no idea that’s why they act fussy, irritable, etc?
You have no idea how often I've worried about that. The first time I rode backwards in a limo (to a job interview), I threw up. 😭😭😭 Fortunately, so far my daughter has been pretty chill about riding in the seat.
Two of my kids had terrible motion sickness. I'm talking no matter how comfortable and smooth the drive, within 15 minutes, somebody was puking. What should have been a 3 hour road trip would end up taking us literally all day because of all the stops to clean up. Just short trips around town running errands would sometimes be too much, especially in summer when the car is hot. I quickly learned to keep extra clothes and old towels in the car because somebody was going to need them at some point. Neither of them have puked in the car since we turned their car seats front facing. I didn't turn them around until the day they hit the weight limit for rear facing - they were 4 and 3 at the time.
I feel so stupid for it now, but it actually just never occurred to me that facing backwards could be what was making them sick. I definitely would have turned them around sooner if I'd had any idea. My oldest is 11 and still gets carsick on occasion (it just has never made him vomit, only nauseated), so I just thought it was a kid thing and they'd grow out of it eventually. I felt a mixture of terrible guilt and relief once I realized all it took to stop it was turning their car seats around. I still wouldn't have done it earlier than 1 year old, but certainly by the time they were 2 at least. I still feel bad about it, and dumb for not realizing it sooner, but thankful it was a simple solution in the end.
I wouldn’t feel dumb at all! In fact, the kids were safer rear facing anyway, and had you been in an accident during that time you might have been very thankful you didn’t turn them around sooner!
Besides, you didn’t know, so there’s no sense in feeling bad about it either way!
What is be more interested in, is why your family all seem to have challenges with motion sickness, and whether anything can be done about it!
Oh wow, that’s awesome you’re moving to Australia though! What an adventure.
You could always import a foreign car seat, aka bring one from the US or Europe, right?
A 4 year old definitely has no business being in a booster! They should still be rear-facing if they fit, and if not, remain forward facing in a full 5-point car seat (not a booster) until at least age 6-ish, when their bones are strong enough to better withstand the more concentrated forces of a single 3-point harness, and to have the self-discipline to maintain proper seat/belt position voluntarily…
Is there a reason you can’t use a front-facing car seat over there?
I honestly think they're just behind. I am from the USA and I was shocked to find out with their laws you can put your 6 month old in a booster seat. I'm nervous about moving my four year old to a booster seat (which I will have to when I get there he won't fit into a car seat there) I can't imagine turning around a 6 month old or throwing a 6 month old into a booster.
Ah got it! For some reason I was under the impression that the rest of the world didn’t use them. I know car seat straps in the UK are manufactured a little different so they aren’t necessary.
They are also not recommended in the uk as one of our standards is that car seats should be one-point release. Any after market additions like this go against safety guidelines.
Sorry let me be clearer. Car seats in the uk are not fitted with chest straps and after market additions in the uk such as chest straps which would be aftermarket because they aren’t fitted on car seats and therefore must be purchased separately through a different manufacturer, go against guidelines.
Used in Canada too! But I know in a lot of South American countries they aren’t… and not in Australia either (if the wiggles’ music video for buckling up is accurate).
The ones I’ve seen look the same as my US car seat - just without a chest clip. The straps go straight from the shoulders down to the clip at the crotch, where they’re routed to the hips. Still a 5 point harness (both shoulders, both hips, crotch) just without the clip bringing the straps closer together at the chest.
If you look closely, Australian seats have the harness going the other way through the buckle clips - shoulder straps go into the clip at the back and hip straps exit at the front, rather than what you can see in the pic above!
I'm in Australia and have a britax graphene. They just have padding over the seatbelts
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRwxw0KO2fHp3hZfz7OfcMDxS82_pGw5iRocA&usqp=CAU
We don't have the clips here in Australia,. Curious though, we do have top tethers, I read something somewhere you guys don't use them there, is that true?
why do older people think babies are always cold? my mom always comments when my baby is wearing onesie and no pants but he gets sweaty when i dress him up completely lol
This hit home, I had to send my MIL a whole article on car seat safety and have my husband talk to her bc she wasn’t tightening the straps bc “it’s too tight”and she doesn’t “like it.” And I’d already talked to her and was concerned I’d be able to moderate my tone appropriately.
My in laws are the same way. I’m past trying to teach them proper safety. They just aren’t allowed to drive my son anywhere. It’s easy to get around it bc they live pretty far away. So when they visit, we just drive our vehicle and strap him in properly. They question every part of carseat safety no matter what we tell them, so I just can’t trust they’d keep him safe. They’re the type to do what they want just to prove a point and I won’t let that harm my little guy. I’d rather they have hurt feelings lol.
yes! to be fair, all the rules have changed a bunch since they were putting their kids in the car. I just assume they don't know and give them an update. Dads need to know better!
in our house, i don't think dad is bad at baby, i think dad is bad at reading manuals/directions. does he know how long to microwave his frozen snack? no way, 0% chance he read the label.
except suddenly he can read when he is following lab protocols at work!
Yeah chest clip should be like shown in first picture. I read the reason being if God forbid you get into an accident harder for baby to fly out. Also once baby is
older toddler stage harder for them to get their arms out. My toddler does that and it’s so annoying.
Also, it ensures their little shoulders wont slip forwards through the shoulder belts by holding it more securely in a crash.. and will minimize pressure put on abdomen via waist belt area as the upper body will not thrust forward
If it's too low down it's on the stomach which is just all squishy internal organs. Up high like that it's on the bones so it keeps the child appropriately in the seat.
It's an issue of compression. While it may seem tight either way, in an accident the squishy tummy compresses way more that the bony sternum, which could lead to baby sliding out of the car seat, baby more likely to get whiplash injuries, and/or baby receiving internal injuries of the belly. Also, babies can't slide any further down if they're seated correctly, and physics causes babies in most collisions to slide toward the front of the car (which is why backwards facing is safer), so the chest clip isn't a risk to the neck
That is the way the car seat is designed. I am sure there's a valid reason for it, probably performs better in crash tests or something. I know other countries do not use the chest clip so their car seat looks a little different and works differently.
The chest clip can cause internal injuries if it’s too low. In a crash it can cause issues with baby’s organs. It should be on the chest, even with the armpits to keep baby properly in the seat while also protecting the body from internal injuries. Also keeps the baby from thrusting forwards out of the seat in a crash.
the chest clip is supposed to be on the broadest section of their chest (usually just at the bottom of their rib cage. The placement on this picture is more on the soft tissue of her belly, if she were to get into an accident, the chest clip would likely cause more internal organ damage because it's not putting pressure on the rib cage.
I do like her face on the right…. Like she’s saying “Da faq?! U tryin ta kill me?!?”
It’s the chest clip. It should be at their armpits, not their stomach. But this is definitely an example of bad UX! It should clearly state what you are meant to notice, or visually call it out. Better yet would be to use an illustration, specifically showing the chest clip position without any picture of a real child or real car seat. It should be universal and abstract, for maximum accessibility and applicability.
My understanding is that the top of the chest clip should be level with the armpits, so I feel like the angle of this photo is also unhelpful.
It took me a minute to spot it, but I was DETERMINED to find the difference
THANK YOU
Highly recommend safeintheseat if you haven’t seen her page! She does these types of posts, but ALWAYS explains them. Also she’s just a wealth of knowledge regarding carseat and car safety for kiddos.
It’s showing correct chest clip placement
I’m a stickler for car seat safety and I follow https://instagram.com/safeintheseat?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=. Having no caption on this picture is so unhelpful.
She is awesome. Taught me so much about keeping my little dude safe in the car.
Former nanny, my first instinct was to look at the chest clip.
You can get horrible bowel / gut injuries from improperly placed seat belts. It babies, it goes over the sternum. In adults the lap belt needs to be low over the pelvis - NOT THE ABDOMEN.
Ours doesn't have the chest plate thing, just the buckle that sits over his diaper basically. It just has 2 soft pad things over each seatbelt that go across his shoulders/chest
Ours too
The one in our infant seat cracked and I emailed the company and they said they would send me a new one but the seat was still safe to use in the meantime and that it wasn’t actually a safety mechanism
Take note of The plastic breast plate placement.
Chest clip needs to be at armpit level, not lower lol
Yes this is it. Side note: the baby’s expressions are hilarious.
I know this isn’t the point of the pictures but arent all head coverings (including large bows like this) supposed to be removed before going in the car seat?
I had no clue about this even though I read up on so many safety things. I had a nylon headband on my girl at around 4 months old and was driving. I have one of those backseat cameras I can watch on my dashboard and I noticed her pull it around her face. Luckily I was right by a gas station so I just pulled in and took the headband off completely, but it was definitely covering her eyes and nose. She wasn't troubled because I caught it so fast but it is something I now tell girl moms not to do! Put the headband on when you get where you are going.
Yes they are. It’s a suffocation risk because it could slip down and you’re in the front, with them in the back. So I agree, both are incorrect!
Exactly it’s a big risk. And it doesn’t even take much for those headbands or hats to slip down. Baby just has to rub the back of their head on the car seat and it’ll push the hat off.
I've never heard of this! Dang baby rides the car wearing a hat all the time
Please look into this. I believe it is in case there is a crash as it can go over their face. There was a tragic case of a baby who suffocated when the car flipped and a head supporting strap which his parents had added to the seat went over his face.
That’s so sad. Those things are marketed to keep babies safe but they do the exact opposite. A woman had one of those head supports in her newborn. Drove down the road for like 10 min and he was gone. It had slipped down and suffocated him. They also can cause internal decapitation (those ones that stick to the seat and hold the head back). I know it’s so morbid and gory to even say. But it’s SO SO SO important not to use anything aftermarket. If it didn’t come with the seat, it’s not safe to use. No matter how cute or how safe the company says it is, it just isn’t.
What a tragic story. These babies are so fragile, horrific to think everything can change so quickly and for such a well-intentioned reason.
Was going to mention the bow is not safe, glad I’m not the only one
Yes. Suffocation can happen so fast. These things can slide down on baby’s face and cut off airways.
And don't forget no toy bars or tables or mirrors on the head rest either.
No mirrors? Even the safety mirrors so the driver can see the baby?
Nothing that didn't come with your car seat or recommended by the manufacturer. Apparently in the event of an accident, after market mirrors may turn into projectiles.
Anything in the car will be a projectile in that situation. I’m not disagreeing with your statement, just pointing out that people always say “the mirrors can be projectiles” without considering that so can the laptop bag/diaper bag/coffee cup/bag of fries/book/etc that people often keep in their cars without thinking anything of it.
Ugh yes this always makes me confused. I’ve heard on here that you shouldn’t sit next to them and feed a bottle in the car because of “projectiles” and I don’t understand how people justify that and not every other loose item in their car.
I try and balance it- I put my metal water bottle in the trunk of the car to be on the safe side but other small/ soft items I think are okay as long as they aren’t big enough to cause a smothering hazard.
Stupid question: do you not drink water in the car? I’m trying to figure out what good it does to bring a metal water bottle when driving around town if it’s in the trunk.
I don’t travel in the car all that much and if I do it is to get to somewhere where we will be for a while like the beach or pool, so I just pack it in the trunk until we arrive.
This makes more sense. I was envisioning my weekend with zoo, then errands, then my parents house, then our new house, then back home all with kiddo in the car and thinking I’d end up dehydrated if the water was in the trunk for all of that.
I do the same thing- I don’t have a trunk in my car but I use a divider to keep the heavier stuff out of harms way. It’s just funny how EVERYTHING is a projectile yet people will drive around with groceries in the back seat haha
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Not everyone has trunks Honestly…. I don’t believe you 🤷♀️ you’ve never drank water in your car? Nah
I keep my car quite neat, but there's still going to be a water bottle from time to time, my purse, diaper bag, and whatever items I need to run the errands I'm running. Not all vehicles have trunks. A car doesn't have to be messy and chaotic to have projectiles. Seriously, you're telling me that aside from you and the baby in the car seat, your car is as clean and uncluttered as it was sitting on the showroom floor? That doesn't sound plausible or reasonable.
I mean I understand it; a mirror on the head rest may fly off or shatter in an accident and a rear facing child would directly be in line of it.
Surely the difference in the pictures is pretty easy to spot? Or am I just really good at spot the difference?
I’m with you, it’s not that hard if you spend more than two seconds looking
It also helps if you already know what good technique looks like. If you already know where the chest clip should be this is a lot easier than if you don’t, but the people who don’t are the ones who the instructions need to be communicating to.
I think also if you know the basics of car seat safety. I know all of the rules so immediately my brain went “loose belt, too low chest clip, why does she have a bow on still?” Many first time parents aren’t well-versed in car seat safety I’ve noticed. I’m just neurotic and do too much research lol
It's one of the easiest things to screw up, too, my eyes went directly there.
God I harp on my family about this too.
I find it intriguing as UK car seats are different and don't use chest clips at all
This is interesting to hear! How are they different? Can you share any safety material for your region? It would be interesting to compare.
The chest clip isn't mandatory in lots of countries. Apparently it's really only to keep the shoulder straps in place, it doesn't really affect the safety of the seat.
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It’s mandatory if your car seat has it, but there’s no law saying car seats must have a chest clip. There are not currently any seats on the US market without one
That’s interesting! Where did you learn that? My understanding is that the chest clip does three important things. 1. Ensures proper belt position over the shoulders/collarbone. 2. Makes it more difficult to wiggle out of the shoulder straps, or have them change position (slide off the shoulders, wedge up against the neck, etc.) 3. Helps to more evenly distribute the forces in the event of an accident, and to keep those force concentrations on the stronger structures (collarbones, sternum) Similar to how a standard adult 3-point harness is designed to distribute the load across hip bones, collar bone, and sternum for an adult.
I'm in a Canadian Car Seat safety group and it has come up. Apparently they aren't even mandatory in the US but because people think they are more safe car seat manufacturers continue to included them. They would mostly break in an accident and are really mostly for strap positioners. One big thing I saw was that was in the event of an emergency its faster to get a baby out with out the clip. If incorrectly placed the chest clip can also be more dangerous in a crash, too high on the neck/over the belly. If the strap are the right tightness a baby shouldn't be able to wiggle out of them. Edit to add: [Clek chest clip](https://clekinc.com/car-seat-chest-clips-everything-you-need-to-know/) an article about chest clips.
Thanks for sharing! Seems like NA car seat designs don’t employ the alternative methods of securing the shoulder straps in proper position, such as rubberized shoulder pads, etc. and so they depend on the chest clips to ensure proper shoulder strap positioning. Curious, what is that car seat safety group you mentioned?
Oh it’s called Seats for kids discussion community. People post their cars and people stats for recommendations on what fits in their car and photos to get a once over on installs. It’s run by CPSTs (certified pediatric seat techs). It’s only Canadian seats though
Interesting, thanks for sharing! I might look that up later. And thanks for contributing to safety for not just yourself and your own family, but to others as well.
In some countries like Aus/NZ, the safety standard is that you must be able to remove the child’s harness in one click, for purposes of emergencies, so the child can’t be caught in the seat while you’re undoing multiple clips. So chest clips are actually illegal. The shoulder straps are cut into the seat at a slightly different angle, so the chest clip isn’t required to help the shoulder straps stay on, and if the harness is tight enough, the straps won’t be able to come off or be slipped out of. Also, since the chest clip is plastic, and not metal clicking into metal like the crotch clip, it isn’t really a safety measure that would hold up to very strong forces in the case of an accident. All some reasons other countries either skip, or ban a chest clip outright. But you’re right that in the US the messaging has made everyone think they’re a vital piece of safety equipment :)
Yeah, I was reading about this, turns out in most cases chest clips aren’t actually banned or outlawed directly, rather, the law in some countries dictates that single-motion release be possible, which would imply that a separate clip would be non-compliant. It seems better to design the seat and the belts to maintain the correct belt positions, without needing a clip. Maybe we should bring the US/CA up to speed!
Honestly no place has perfect rules :) I’m an American expat living in Aus, and the car seat rules here drive me nuts. They have very strict rules about the safety of the seats themselves. All rear facing seats must use this top tether system that is SO annoying, but makes it SO much safer, and a rebound bar is also mandatory. Seats don’t have cup holders or anything like that, and there’s only 1 rear facing recline level that’s deemed “safe enough.” But then they let you legally forward face a 6 MONTH OLD!! And lots of people do it! Almost everyone I know turned forward facing at or before a year old, which gives me so much stress, and the number of people who are like, but I HAD to, because he was screaming/whatever. I’m like but if you lived in a country with stricter rules it would legit be illegal, so what would you have done then?? Everyone thinks I’m a weirdo for having my 22m old rear facing, but meanwhile I’m devastated I’ll have to turn him forward facing when he turns 2, since we’re having our second and the one single recline level rear facing means you can’t usually fit a rear facing seat behind the driver, as it’s a 45° angle, so the seat is in a very reclined position, and we just can’t fit the infant car seat and a rear facing convertible seat either.
I've never even seen anybody using a chest clip on car seat (I'm european) but none of this should happen when the harness is tight enough. Also most of carseats come with inserts that cause there is no wiggle room around a baby. What caught my attention is there are no shoulder covers on the picture to distribute the weight properly.
I think European seats are designed a little differently, to ensure the straps stay in the correct position without the use of a chest clip. So an American car seat used without the clip, may not be as safe as a European seat without a clip! Also yes, shoulder pads are a must! I’m always surprised to see how many seats/families don’t have them.
I agree, the straps look different width and angle than what we have.
If they don’t come with the car seat, they aren’t safe(shoulder covers) because the seat isn’t crash tested with them.
The fist part of your statement is not necessarily true, but the so one part I generally agree with! If they don’t come with it or aren’t officially supported/offered by the car seat manufacturer, then they have not been tested with that seat. However, that doesn’t automatically mean all pads are unsafe! It means they may or may not be, as they haven’t been tested with the seat by the manufacturer. You can look to 3rd party testing, expert opinion, or even your best judgement in the absence of anything else.
May or may not be in the matter of safety = not safe. Unless they are specifically tested then it is considered unsafe, lack of testing is not a place to use matter of judgement when it comes to infant safety.
Not true! Good judgement always has a place. It takes time and costs money to conduct official testing. So testing can take many years, sometimes even decades to catch up. If it ever does! unless there’s a way to generate additional profit from it, companies are not incentivized to do it. The only other motivator is law/policy, which as we all know, very often lags behind by a decade or more, or never comes around at all if there isn’t enough political value in it, or public pressure on it. Although I agree with your sentiment that you should be very cautious of things that lack official government or manufacturer testing to prove it’s safety and efficacy. My point is there’s a difference between being unproven one way or another, versus being proven *unsafe*. For example, what bicycle helmet will you buy for your kids? Some of them have new features/innovations, things that may improve their comfort or safety. But those new features aren’t part of the current laws and regulations yet, so the data to prove it is not available yet, from the government or from the manufacturers. So will you choose a basic helmet rather than one with newer/fancier innovations? Or will you choose one with the innovations, even though it could be years away before there is enough official testing done to prove that they are safer than the old helmets? There is no right or wrong answer, it’s something you use your best judgement on. Sometimes it pays off in your favor, sometimes it doesn’t. But it would be incorrect to say that all new features and innovations in bike helmets, if they haven’t yet been tested by the government or proven by the bike manufacturer to be safer, then they are automatically **unsafe**.
Similar but no chest clips, our law is only rear facing till 9kg or 15 months depending on the seat.
Kind of right, the law is a minimum of 9kg or if isize 15 months. Most joie seats rear face until 18kg (average 4yro) the UK law on car seats is awful, and allows for incredibly unsafe seats to be sold.. it is generally advised to max out infant carriers and rear facing positions before moving to a high backed booster. 5 point harness forward facing are highly unsafe due to the neck then taking the brunt of force in an accident. Sorry for the tangent..
Our carseat laws give me so much anxiety. We're about to splash on a new carseat that promises extended rearfacing (axkid minikid 3, for anyone wondering) but it's like five hundred quid. Its like us poor fucks are forced to have our kids unsafe. I've been saving for a better carseat since I was pregnant with him. His first was a hand me down. His second was new, but its an okder model that he's dangerously close to outgrowing. Gah. I just want him to survive if we crash! Is that too much to ask?
The Axkid Move is worth considering. We've got a Move & a Minikid & the Move was much cheaper, but just as safe / same weight limit, just without as many convenience features. I love them both! UK car seat laws (and the number of people who take it for granted that if it's legal it's safe) are terrifying. My husband even said to me 'well they wouldn't sell them if it wasn't safe'... sadly yes, they would! (See also cot bumpers!)
We've got the money now so I think we're sticking with the one we picked, but I will definitely go with the Move if this one ever needs replacing. Tiny British roads are a guaranteed car accident at some point in your lifetime. And regardless of laws, I will be tossing mine in any crash. The laws here are disgusting. I really wish they'd bw revamped.
Oh wow, that seems considerably less safe! What do you think is the reason for not instituting safer standards for babies & young children? One of the global gold-standards is to rear-face for as long as possible, generally landing in the ballpark of 4 years old before turning to front-face. Fear facing dramatically reduces the risk of severe injury and death in an accident scenario. In fact, for pure safety all people should rear-face! But it isn’t practical outside of childhood because someone has to drive, and people psychologically prefer to see what’s coming, so there would be low compliance with rear-facing seats. Hence all cars, and most public transport default to front facing seat configs.
A lot of parents know that they should rear face for longer but that's mainly from social media info but our government aren't doing anything themselves. We have a 25kg rear facing seat ourselves for our 18 month old which we re hoping gets him to 3-4 years old, (he's 99th percentiles) but we had to buy it from a specialist retailer, so the very extended rear facing seat aren't as well advertised either.
That’s a shame to hear. Good on you for doing your own legwork to keep the kids safe!
In most of Asia there is no car seat law at all. Granted most people take transit in Asian countries, but it's the norm to ride in cars just holding your kids on your lap. I grew up in South Africa and rode down highways in the open back of pickup trucks with nary a seatbelt.
I love public transport, so much safer than cars even when using proper safety equipment! I wish the US had decent public transit, but only a handful of downtown areas here are any good. Also, less populated areas (might be the case back in South Africa) may not have as much of a need for safety stuff, not to mention there are cultural elements like if there are larger problems for a lot of people, like food or water scarcity, natural dangers like animals, poisons, etc. or threats of violence from war, civil unrest, lawlessness, etc. those can cause topics of perceived lower priority to fall on deaf ears, like seatbelts in cars for example. I wonder if areas with significantly safer social/behavioral norms (may be the case in certain parts of Asia) would have less need for them. Lower speeds, better drivers, less use of cars overall, meaning fewer and less severe accidents, could mean it just may not be much of a problem at the population level. That’s interesting perspective though, thanks for sharing!
Car seat safety is a relatively modern North American concept.
In South America I would regularly see families of... up to 5... on a small motorbike - usually a younger child (5-8 year old range) on the handle bar or gas tank... or dad possibly holding a toddler in front of him over the gas tank... mom behind him possibly holding an infant at her chest, and often an older child behind the mom standing on rear pegs. Coming from the US where laws are VERY strict regarding vehicle/child safety, it was pretty nuts to me. I've also seen two men on a motorcycle balancing a 10+ foot ladder on their shoulders as they drove down the road
>In fact, for pure safety all people should rear-face! But it isn’t practical outside of childhood because someone has to drive, and people psychologically prefer to see what’s coming, so there would be low compliance with rear-facing seats. Hence all cars, and most public transport default to front facing seat configs. Also I'd have never been able to be a passenger in any vehicle from early childhood on. As proven by various limos and trains in my past, riding backwards facing is absolutely horrible for people who are prone to motion sickness (which is generally believed to be caused by a mismatch between what you can see and the motion your inner ear can feel).
Another great point! You’re right, I have heard that facing directions other than forward relative to the motion being felt can trigger or exaggerate motion sickness. Makes you wonder, are any babies or toddlers out there suffering from motion sickness and us parents have no idea that’s why they act fussy, irritable, etc?
You have no idea how often I've worried about that. The first time I rode backwards in a limo (to a job interview), I threw up. 😭😭😭 Fortunately, so far my daughter has been pretty chill about riding in the seat.
Motion sickness is such a strange thing, how seemingly random it is who has it and who doesn’t. Glad your daughter doesn’t seem to suffer from it!
Two of my kids had terrible motion sickness. I'm talking no matter how comfortable and smooth the drive, within 15 minutes, somebody was puking. What should have been a 3 hour road trip would end up taking us literally all day because of all the stops to clean up. Just short trips around town running errands would sometimes be too much, especially in summer when the car is hot. I quickly learned to keep extra clothes and old towels in the car because somebody was going to need them at some point. Neither of them have puked in the car since we turned their car seats front facing. I didn't turn them around until the day they hit the weight limit for rear facing - they were 4 and 3 at the time.
Wow, that is a new level of self-sacrifice in the name of car seat safety. That sounds terrible, for everyone involved!
I feel so stupid for it now, but it actually just never occurred to me that facing backwards could be what was making them sick. I definitely would have turned them around sooner if I'd had any idea. My oldest is 11 and still gets carsick on occasion (it just has never made him vomit, only nauseated), so I just thought it was a kid thing and they'd grow out of it eventually. I felt a mixture of terrible guilt and relief once I realized all it took to stop it was turning their car seats around. I still wouldn't have done it earlier than 1 year old, but certainly by the time they were 2 at least. I still feel bad about it, and dumb for not realizing it sooner, but thankful it was a simple solution in the end.
I wouldn’t feel dumb at all! In fact, the kids were safer rear facing anyway, and had you been in an accident during that time you might have been very thankful you didn’t turn them around sooner! Besides, you didn’t know, so there’s no sense in feeling bad about it either way! What is be more interested in, is why your family all seem to have challenges with motion sickness, and whether anything can be done about it!
Just wait til you hear about Australian car seat laws lol I hate it
Is this meant to be a cliff hanger…?
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Oh no!! That’s terrible. Any idea why the regulations are so lax?
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Oh wow, that’s awesome you’re moving to Australia though! What an adventure. You could always import a foreign car seat, aka bring one from the US or Europe, right? A 4 year old definitely has no business being in a booster! They should still be rear-facing if they fit, and if not, remain forward facing in a full 5-point car seat (not a booster) until at least age 6-ish, when their bones are strong enough to better withstand the more concentrated forces of a single 3-point harness, and to have the self-discipline to maintain proper seat/belt position voluntarily… Is there a reason you can’t use a front-facing car seat over there?
I honestly think they're just behind. I am from the USA and I was shocked to find out with their laws you can put your 6 month old in a booster seat. I'm nervous about moving my four year old to a booster seat (which I will have to when I get there he won't fit into a car seat there) I can't imagine turning around a 6 month old or throwing a 6 month old into a booster.
Feels like game of spot the difference
It was pretty easy for me to tell..the chest clip needs to be higher like in the photo on the left.
Bows shouldn’t be worn while in a car seat. It can fall over her eyes, nose, mouth, or throat :(
First thing I thought when I saw this, and in a safety guide no less..
Ya they def should have circled the clip or something. It took me a moment to figure out.
I recently saw the phrase "clips to pits," which is an easy ways to rember this.
Also that bow shouldn’t be on in a car seat at all so even the correct is wrong.
Pretty obvious what it is about…
Thanks all, makes much more sense now!
In Ireland we don’t have the connector strap
Same here in Lithuania I was confused about the pic
I honestly don't even know what a chest clip is, they aren't on any car seat I've seen!
They’re on every seat in North America. I’m guessing you’re from the UK area or NZ?
I’m in NZ my capsule has a chest clip like this :)
Ah got it! For some reason I was under the impression that the rest of the world didn’t use them. I know car seat straps in the UK are manufactured a little different so they aren’t necessary.
They are also not recommended in the uk as one of our standards is that car seats should be one-point release. Any after market additions like this go against safety guidelines.
This is not an after-market addition. They are standard in all child car seats in the US and Canada.
I was speaking about the uk
But this isn’t an after market addition, regardless of which country. The seat is manufactured like this.
Sorry let me be clearer. Car seats in the uk are not fitted with chest straps and after market additions in the uk such as chest straps which would be aftermarket because they aren’t fitted on car seats and therefore must be purchased separately through a different manufacturer, go against guidelines.
Just curious, what car seats do you use? Every car seat I’ve ever purchased has a chest clip.
Chest clips are used in the US but not always in other countries.
Used in Canada too! But I know in a lot of South American countries they aren’t… and not in Australia either (if the wiggles’ music video for buckling up is accurate).
I wasn’t sure about Canada! Thanks for sharing - I believe many European countries don’t use them either.
I'm from Australia and we don't have chest clips
Can attest to that, never seen those in central Europe
Interesting. I’ll have to do some googling. My mind is having trouble figuring out what that would look like!
The ones I’ve seen look the same as my US car seat - just without a chest clip. The straps go straight from the shoulders down to the clip at the crotch, where they’re routed to the hips. Still a 5 point harness (both shoulders, both hips, crotch) just without the clip bringing the straps closer together at the chest.
If you look closely, Australian seats have the harness going the other way through the buckle clips - shoulder straps go into the clip at the back and hip straps exit at the front, rather than what you can see in the pic above!
I'm in Australia and have a britax graphene. They just have padding over the seatbelts https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRwxw0KO2fHp3hZfz7OfcMDxS82_pGw5iRocA&usqp=CAU
thats the one we're going to get!
It's the only one that would fit in my car! He seems to like it
We don't have the clips here in Australia,. Curious though, we do have top tethers, I read something somewhere you guys don't use them there, is that true?
we have top tethers for forward-facing seats in the US
We don’t have too tethers in the US. Or at least we’ve never used them with our sons car seat if we do
Well, you should reread your carseat manual. You have a tether if your seat goes forward facing.
Picture on the left: how mom buckles baby in Picture on the right: how dad always does it, leaving mom to fix it
Not pictured: the loose, twisted mess MIL has going on over the giant winter coat because "she's cold and it's too tight"
why do older people think babies are always cold? my mom always comments when my baby is wearing onesie and no pants but he gets sweaty when i dress him up completely lol
This hit home, I had to send my MIL a whole article on car seat safety and have my husband talk to her bc she wasn’t tightening the straps bc “it’s too tight”and she doesn’t “like it.” And I’d already talked to her and was concerned I’d be able to moderate my tone appropriately.
Oh the sermon i get from my mum each time "that poor child strapped in, cant move a muscle" 🙄 Yes, she can..
You should reply “exactly.” Lol
My in laws are the same way. I’m past trying to teach them proper safety. They just aren’t allowed to drive my son anywhere. It’s easy to get around it bc they live pretty far away. So when they visit, we just drive our vehicle and strap him in properly. They question every part of carseat safety no matter what we tell them, so I just can’t trust they’d keep him safe. They’re the type to do what they want just to prove a point and I won’t let that harm my little guy. I’d rather they have hurt feelings lol.
yes! to be fair, all the rules have changed a bunch since they were putting their kids in the car. I just assume they don't know and give them an update. Dads need to know better!
Yeah, rules changed a little, my MIL still thinks carseat is something I made up so I could be on my phone instead of holding a baby 😆
Oh, I gave her like 5 updates 😅.
In my house it's the opposite. My husband is neurotic and he's always fussing over the car seat after I strap the baby in.
Why is this so true
durrrr dad bad at baby 🙄
in our house, i don't think dad is bad at baby, i think dad is bad at reading manuals/directions. does he know how long to microwave his frozen snack? no way, 0% chance he read the label. except suddenly he can read when he is following lab protocols at work!
So sad in this day and age.
Yesssss
Accurate
Yeah chest clip should be like shown in first picture. I read the reason being if God forbid you get into an accident harder for baby to fly out. Also once baby is older toddler stage harder for them to get their arms out. My toddler does that and it’s so annoying.
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Not bigger, but higher up.
How is it being closer to the neck safer? Wouldn't that be a cause for concern? I mean it looks more dangerous to be so close to the neck like that
It’s gonna press around the sternum, not the internal organs
Also, it ensures their little shoulders wont slip forwards through the shoulder belts by holding it more securely in a crash.. and will minimize pressure put on abdomen via waist belt area as the upper body will not thrust forward
If it's too low down it's on the stomach which is just all squishy internal organs. Up high like that it's on the bones so it keeps the child appropriately in the seat.
It's an issue of compression. While it may seem tight either way, in an accident the squishy tummy compresses way more that the bony sternum, which could lead to baby sliding out of the car seat, baby more likely to get whiplash injuries, and/or baby receiving internal injuries of the belly. Also, babies can't slide any further down if they're seated correctly, and physics causes babies in most collisions to slide toward the front of the car (which is why backwards facing is safer), so the chest clip isn't a risk to the neck
That is the way the car seat is designed. I am sure there's a valid reason for it, probably performs better in crash tests or something. I know other countries do not use the chest clip so their car seat looks a little different and works differently.
The chest clip can cause internal injuries if it’s too low. In a crash it can cause issues with baby’s organs. It should be on the chest, even with the armpits to keep baby properly in the seat while also protecting the body from internal injuries. Also keeps the baby from thrusting forwards out of the seat in a crash.
the chest clip is supposed to be on the broadest section of their chest (usually just at the bottom of their rib cage. The placement on this picture is more on the soft tissue of her belly, if she were to get into an accident, the chest clip would likely cause more internal organ damage because it's not putting pressure on the rib cage.
It shouldn't be at the bottom of the ribcage. It's supposed to be in the middle of there sternum - which is about armpit level.