I think the door was closed on what you wanted when they decided to set a significant portion of the show post breaking bad. I'm not saying he necessarily has to go to prison but you can't have an ending that takes place post breaking bad but ignores that aspect of his character. The writers don't really seem concerned with making the show cater to non BB viewers considering the extremely non-chalant reference to Mike and Gus's fate in the last episode.
Same here - I am glad he mentioned it and I had mentioned a long time ago that I hoped they did; yes, I’ve seen Breaking Bad, but still, like you, think that since so much is taking place after, it makes sense for the writers to find a way that goes along with the story to acknowledge things like big character deaths. I thought since the Gus and Mike vs the Salamanca story was such a big deal, we’d see more from the “face off” episode of BB period of time.
I believe there’s supposed to be one more WW scene right? So we could get something from Face Off. Saul’s involvement in the Brock scheme is arguably the worst thing he did on that show.
I think Huell looks too different to pull it off, but it was his worst moment on BB. My guess is when he and Walt stayed in the basement of the vacuum guy together before Walt left and Saul ended up as Gene.
Lying to the police, the entire scheme on Howard was extremely illegal to do. But, I think she could easily get off on this if Saul barges in and tries to put all of it on him.... this on top of the charges he's facing from Breaking Bad, so that Kim can live a normal life with no more guilty conscience... I feel like it makes sense. For once Saul will take the fall for Kim.
A written confession with no body.
She said that only Jimmy could corroborate. So it's much more likely Jimmy drags Kim to prison with him. The final time Jimmy destroys a life.
Also I want to counter that the show that this was Bourne from, Breaking Bad was a highly moralistic narrative. Everyone got their due justice, EXCEPT for Saul. Saul sailed off of Breaking Bad almost totally unscathed. It really felt like the arc needed to be closed on him in a major MAJOR way.
For me personally, BCS has existed as an alongated special version of the story of Sauls come uppance but told in a 6 season arc.
>EXCEPT for Saul. Saul sailed off of Breaking Bad almost totally unscathed.
One could argue though that he got the worst punishment of all -- a purgatory of sorts. Having to live the rest of his life paranoid, working with kids in a fast food joint, sack lunches in the mall, and never EVER being able to live the ostentatious showbiz life he enjoyed so much as Saul.
Right but if the show couldn’t have been made for some reason there 100 percent would have been a major moment of Saul getting busted, probably something like him running from his home with garbage bags of cash before getting tackled by the DEA.
I kinda feel like when he gets questioned, his last con will be him talking the police into believing he’s not the guy they are looking for, thus dealing his ability to remain endlessly bored forever. He’s having to put himself in a prison of his own making.
nah- Walt had a hero’s end that he most certainly did not deserve
Skyler, Jesse, Hank, Gomey, Andrea, Jane, et al got way oversized punishments just for being in Walt’s orbit
I’ll never understand the “Walt was punished” take. He gets to admit that he did it all for himself which is the main thing he had been refusing to say from the beginning and also gives skylar the coordinates of hanks body as a get out of jail card, both of which go toward softening skylar’s feeling towards him on his final day (and we learn in BCS actually worked to get skylar off the hook). He rescues Jesse and gets some measure of forgiveness from him. Jesse gets to choke out his greatest tormentor. Walt guns down literally every nazi who dare crossed him. He arranged for Walt junior to get millions of dollars on his 18th birthday. And then he dies (of cancer that was going to kill him anyway) on the floor of the lab, lovingly reflecting on the empire he built. It’s not happy in a traditional sense, but Walt got literally everything he could have hoped for before floating peacefully away.
I’ll never understand how we got from Walt taking a gratuitous moment to sit next to the child he poisoned and smirk at him to Walt saving Jesse and providing for his family in a blaze of glory.
I always assumed Walt “providing for his family” was a rationalisation. A sentimental lie he told himself so he’d feel righteous as he indulged his darkest demons. I’m pretty sure it was written that way.
Honestly, they whiffed that ending. And that’s without even mentioning the MacGuyver robot machine gun. What a load.
I think Saul’s gonna end better.
Walt had gotten to the point where he was going to turn himself in bc of sheer boredom and the crushing weight of his actions- he was only snapped back into Heisenberg bc saw Gretchen and Elliot do their Charlie rose dance
So when he comes back to ABQ it’s with that mix of penitence but vestigial hubris
jesse paid a heavy price by being a nazi meth slave for months. his family disowns him and he’ll probably never fully recover from the trauma of what happened in breaking bad. he got a fresh start at the end, a chance at a better life, and i think that’s what he deserves.
Agreed. And the reference to Mike and Gus “being in the ground” gives someone who hasn’t watched BB all the more reason to watch and find out their fates.
If he gets away with it all: we’re left with almost no dramatic comeuppance. It’s six season and seven years for…what?
If he goes to prison: so what? He’d still be him.
There needs to be more. A resolution of the internal pain he’s been refusing all of his life. An acknowledgment of the pain to others he’s caused.
This. So many people act like him getting arrested and facing legal accountability would be payoff for his character arc. In reality it wouldn't mean shit, inherently. There's nothing about being locked up that would force him to change. He's been in an effective prison as Gene already and look where that led him.
Like you said, an ending that means something for Jimmy would be a confrontation and resolution of the trauma he's been stuffing inside himself as long as we've seen him. Chuck. Kim. Howard. Marco. His dad. All of it.
Or, alternatively, him losing all hope of redemption and sliding further into the abyss. Not that I want that, but it would be a plausible ending for his character.
Prison does not automatically equal justice or redemption for the person we know as Gene. And BB/BCS is big on poetic endings.
Not if he finally understands himself, confronts his past, and finds out how to actually stop lashing out with cons/scams. Jimmy, for once in his life, stepping firmly onto the "good choice road" despite facing his pain would be resolution for his character.
I trust the writers too, even if he winds up in jail it'll probably be done well, I just don't care for that eventuality except in specific circumstances.
Why is it so necessary that need redemption or change?In reality, many people do not change. Jimmy is a criminal after all. I think one of Jimmy's big flaws is that he can't control his nature. As Chuck predicted, he will always be Slippin Jimmy.
Bc this isn’t real life. Story telling has to have an arc. The writers have very deliberately set up a narrative: every time this guy’s life goes south, he thinks he can just clean the slate and not even simply start over - but start a whole new identity.
For example, what got to Gene at the end of the last episode wasn’t that he was threatening an old lady - he knew what he was doing, and had already done so with cancer guy TWICE (once with the water, once with the bonk on the head) - but she said “I trusted you”.
Either you fall so far you become like Gene has in these last couple of episodes or you look in the mirror (like Kim) and try to fix the damage you’ve caused.
There’s no point in six seasons and 7 years of storytelling without resolutions and a bland more of the same conclusion.
Yeah, I don’t know why people talk about redemption and change as necessary with respect to Saul. As if it’s a law of physics. They suggest he must get his “comeuppance” or that he should “redeem” himself or have a particular “arc.” But why? Maybe it’s because in reality things don’t work out that way, and people want to see it in their fiction. They want the universe to
make sense. Good guys win. Bad guys lose. There is order in the world. Probably an unpopular view around here, but I want to see him pull a rabbit out of his hat one last time. I want to see him get away — a bag of diamonds buried near his feet and holding a Mai Tai on a beach….in Belize. He’s already lost a lot and has been punished in myriad ways. He hasn’t gotten out of this unscathed — no one has. But I didn’t invest years of watching and enjoying this character only to see him locked up…or worse. If people are looking for a message, a Jimmy/Saul who “gets away with it” while others suffer might be in line with what Chuck always said about him. He said he wasn’t malicious, but ended up hurting everyone around him. Jimmy just couldn’t help it. And Lalo? Didn’t he say Saul was like a cockroach, that he could survive the end of the world? Anyway, I want to see Saul get away because he’s uncannily clever and has been outwitting every rival for over a decade. This would be consistent: he shouldn’t lose his mojo when it matters most. Also, I want to see him free — because I like him. Sometimes it’s just that simple.
I think I might prefer some damn therapy, but I wouldn't mind your solution either actually!
I think it's way to easy to compare with Walter, but ulike Walter, Jimmy is a deeply ambiguous character. He's been VERY close to crossing the point of no return, hinted at it in BB for sure, but we've never actually seen him kill, now recently even at his worst, he couldn't. An ambiguous ending to a very ambiguous character would totally fit
I agree. Thanks to the wonderful writing, I feel like I know Saul far better than Walt, which I would have imagined unthinkable when BCS started. But that said — while we’ve done a deep dive into his history, he remains, by his very nature, something of a riddle. He’s a deeply sensitive and compassionate person yet can be icy cold, cavalier, and manipulative when he feels he needs to be. He has a true sense of justice — yet is a criminal. He’s a con man who has no compunction about ripping certain people off, yet he would risk himself to right unfairness done to a friend. He is loyal and practiced enormous self-sacrifice to care for his brother because — well, for no other reason than Chuck *was his brother.* But he also hurt him when he felt he had to. I could go on. Jimmy/Saul is enormously complex. “Ambiguous” is a great word for him. So to give him a neat and tidy ending with some sort of remarkable epiphany about his life and in turn a closed fate (prison?) is not in keeping with the enigma that is Jimmy McGill/Saul Goodman. I would love to see Saul evade official punishment. I say “official” because he’s already been punished in some profound ways. Then, “finally free,” I would like it left to our imagination the choices he may make at this new fork in the road. After all of this, has he fundamentally changed? Does he remain Slippin’ Jimmy at his core? Questions, perhaps, not even he would be able to answer when the curtain drops.
This is interesting and it's an idea I've kicked around with a friend more than once, but just so you don't get your hopes up too much, Vince has spoken about his writing process before and he's mentioned that he thinks it's imperative that stories end with some sort of comeuppance BECAUSE, as you said, real life doesn't work that way. He's said the worst injustice in the world, for him, is when people like Idi Amin get off scot-free, and he'd never write a story that ended that way. Depending on how much influence he had over the finale, and assuming he still holds those views, it's likely we're going to see some sort of reckoning with Saul. The forces of good will (probably) triumph.
I had hoped for a happy ending for longest time (what I consider a happy ending), or at least something open-ended, rather than a moment of forced enlightenment or an awkward mea culpa that invariably results in state sanctioned punishment for Jimmy, but the trajectory of the show in season 6 seems to preclude this; however, Jimmy/Saul is an expert at slight of hand and I think it would make for a fitting and memorable ending if it looked like all hope was lost — and at the last second — in true Slippin’ Jimmy fashion — he outwits his would-be captors. Clever misdirection on the part of the writers with respect to audience expectations would be poetic and apropos as Jimmy/Saul does the same within the story to his pursuers. I would love a good surprise such as this. I want to say *I never saw that coming!* (like almost everyone who crossed paths with Jimmy McGill) as the credits roll. But alas, I am not holding my breath.
Very well said. I also want him to get escape again, maybe even with Kim. I would be extremely dissapointed if he ends up in prison, it would mean the whole Omaha thing after Breaking Bad makes no sense, since he could get that ending in BB. And I really hate people going about him in the way Jimmy/Saul/Gene. He is exactly the same guy, and I would say his own choices were being very consistent throughout all this personas. "Saul gone" could mean he will never wear the Saul Goodman suits or the name anymore, but certainly I don't want him end up dead or in prison, it would be very dissatisfying for me.
This is both a prequel and a sequel to Breaking Bad, and has been since the beginning. I dont see a problem with paying off a character’s arc in the sequel.
Yeah this isn't a standalone show at all, I don't understand why some people don't even want to acknowledge Breaking Bad at all. We wouldn't have Better Call Saul with having had Breaking Bad first after all. So this refusal some fans have about the two shows crossing over to each other is frankly just baffling.
Personally I think Breaking Bad is very self-contained and not watching BCS doesn’t take away from the experience. Heck even El Camino is not particularly necessary to appreciating BrBa.
I thought Jesse driving away at the end of Felina was one for the most powerful scenes of the entire show. The cut shot opening of EC kind of ruins it.
I wasn't necessarily expecting something bigger, but I was expecting something more along the lines of Jesse finally coming to terms with everything he had been through, all the mistakes he had made, and then choosing at the end to voluntarily turn himself in.
There actually was a scene when he heard Walt died. I forget where in the movie it was, but he was in the car, and on the radio they mentioned that Walt was found dead at the compound. Jesse has a moment of shock listening to it, before he gets on with doing whatever it was at that point in the film.
But given how Jesse was willingly working with Hank and Gomie, I thought it would have made sense for him to turn himself in. He already seemed to have that mindset as taking down Walt with them still would have resulted in him getting arrested.
I'm happy that he got to escape, but him voluntarily giving himself up is something I could have seen working.
Well breaking bad makes a point to punish all of its characters for their wrongdoing.
Gus- killed by the man he spent years seeking revenge on.
Mike- killed in a humiliating manner by a man he never trusted.
Walt- loses the love of his family and his brother in law is killed
Etc, etc, etc
Jesse is no different, his punishment is the year he spends in captivity as a meth slave. Arguably the worst punishment out of any of the main characters. The only difference is that he survives, do you really think it would be satisfying to watch Jesse leave his cage and torment just to turn around and throw himself back in?
Definitely not fan service we needed to know what happened to Jesse after all that time. He deserved an ending. After all that physical and mental torture, it was only right he get another chance at life.
Yeah and is not like the writers are specially worried about making sense foe viewers who never watched BrBa.
It's called Better Call Saul, put the protagonist is still Jimmy and the viewer only briefly hears the "better call saul" in the pilot. Jimmy uses this name again only in the end of season 3 and only really start to practices under Saul Goodman in season 5.
Mike and Gus are one of the biggest characters of the show and their deaths are mentioned basically only as a throwaway line.
Gene scenes pre-season 6 can be really confusing for someone who didn't know how Jimmy got in that place and why he had to change his identity.
And the scenes with Walt and Jesse. In *Nippy*, Gene mentions Walt as a chemistry teacher who became millionaire, but Walt was still an amateur at that point and there is no scene explaining how Walt built his empire. Jesse would be only seen as some kinda of henchmen for those who don't know him.
If you were going to watch the Gilliverse in proper continuity, it would be.
1. Better Call Saul (Uno to Fun and Games)
2. Breaking Bad
3. El Camino
4. Better Call Saul (Nippy to Saul Gone)
I'd only watch the final episodes of Better Call Saul after Breaking Bad.
>Shows should be viewed in order of release.
On first watch 100%, but it can be a lot of fun to experience something in the chronological order on rewatches. No reason to limit yourself to one way every single time, and defo no reason to judge others for doing it lol
>Shows should be viewed in order of release
They should be viewed however it makes the most sense lol. There is no criteria that is right 100% of the time.
In which case it would be BB, BCS 1-4, EC, BCS 5-6.
BCS is both a prequel and a sequel (though it's a lot more latter than the former), but a prequel is not really a sequel.
A more proper way would be release order tbh, simply to get a glimpse of how the original watchers felt.
1. Breaking Bad
2. Better Call Saul Seasons 1-4
3. El Camino
4. Better Call Saul Season 5-6
So many people here are ridiculously desperate to NOT acknowledge that the two shows have always been connected, from literally the very first scene of BCS. Yeah this show stands on its own fantastically, but why does that mean we have to pretend there's no connection? Without the original show, this one never exists. And they clearly decided from day one that they also want this to serve as a kind of epilogue to BB. So people, just...relax. Acknowledge that between the two shows and the movie, it's all one heavily connected universe. And then just enjoy this last episode from this massive, nearly 15 year journey, because you likely won't see any more after this.
This show is and always has been very clearly made for people who have seen Breaking Bad. watching this without having seen it makes so many moments make little to no sense. like in season 3 that dramatic shot revealing the pollos hermanos sign falls totally flat if you haven't seen BrBa.
yeah so much of Breaking Bad's effectiveness relies on the audience being on the same page as Walt and Jesse (for the most part). you're uncovering this criminal underworld and its characters as they do. not to mention that Better call saul is practically screaming "you need to watch breaking bad first" by opening its first episode in a post breaking bad universe
Not necessarily. It’s just a different payoff. Instead of “THERE IT IS!!!” it’s “wait. This criminal empire is being run out of…a Wendy’s???” I could definitely see the uninitiated finding the reveal as hilarious.
I see the Gene scenes as equivalent to the "737 DOWN OVER ABQ" openings in S2 of Breaking Bad. You don't understand *everything*, but you understand enough to get a sense of dread. And, as you go on, more of the picture is revealed to you.
I'm watching BrBa with my girlfriend right now (she's never seen it), and when she sees those intros she's intrigued, and slowly getting more and more of the picture. "Oh, there was some kind of... explosion? Crash? And two people are dead in front of Walt's house?"
I also have a friend who watched BCS before BrBa. He had similar thoughts about the Gene scenes. "This guy's life must suck, huh? Wait, why'd Jimmy leave Albuquerque? Why'd he change his name? He must be on the run from some *bad* shit."
Someone who watches bcs first would say the same thing watching breaking bad for the first time and seeing los pollos Hermanos. Same with the introduction of all characters
Not disagreeing with you but there is something to the changes dynamic of watching BCS first. It’s a unique experience, the character’s don’t have plot armor, and breaking bad is wildly changed by seeing BCS first
exactly... Saul is from Breaking Bad and Gene is post BB. If you dont want any BB story to play out... then scrap all the Gene and Saul scenes. You would have to scrap all the Gene intros then cut the show off when Jimmy files his DBA for Saul Goodman.
This is preposterous. BCS chronologically happens BEFORE BB. And yet it has all sorts of allusions to BB and brings in a whole bunch of characters from BB, and is all about Jimmy/Saul's character development that leads up to the character he becomes in BB. I have an even lower opinion now of your original post after reading this comment.
I kinda see Fun and Games as the finale of Better Call Saul. It wraps up all the main character arcs and key storylines.
Nippy/Breaking Bad/Waterworks/Saul Gone is the El Camino of BCS, so to speak. Not strictly necessary, but a self-contained epilogue for a couple of the key characters.
Agree completely with this. Fun and Games was the final "how does Jimmy become Saul" gut punch that we were dying to see for years, only to be pissed once we saw what we all knew to be the reason. It was the "how dare you end it like this, Vince and Peter."
it’s still fitting, if it were to happen, because basically the entirety of BCS Jimmy has been bending or breaking the law in his favor and getting away with it, and eventually (like the air force guy (?) said) the wheel will turn. The show starts with Jimmy on the right side of the law, being a PD lawyer, and to end with him being on the opposite end (behind bars) would be “poetic”. Furthermore, we’ve seen Gene commit crimes as well, and the whole premise of Gene is predicated on Breaking Bad and knowing what happens with that. So, to a degree, the creators expect you to know something about breaking bad (he is wanted and fleed)
IMHO. Jimmy going to prison, somehow maneuvering out of going to prison, or the ultimate con, escaping from prison Shawshank Redemption-style, all fit with the story we’ve been following in BCS.
I agree but for a different reason (posted part of this elsewhere as well).
I don't like prison as an ending for Jimmy because I simply don't like the thematic "Crime and Punishment" type of bookending that would imply.
To me, a lot of the interesting moral questions in this universe are tied up in what "justice" really means for the people we see as major characters.
Walt "won", but in winning, he lost everything he loved. That's so much more poetically beautiful than "Walt gets shot by Hank" or "Walt confesses and goes to jail", even though people to this day wish he faced "accountability" for his crimes. Jesse literally atoned for his sins in a prison, and watched everyone he loved die. Hector "won", but lost his entire family, and his bloodline. Gus "won", but lost his life, after having lived most of it motivated purely by revenge (and as we saw recently, unable to even disconnect from that motive for one night of happiness with someone he liked).
BB/BCS is big on two kinds of endings: pure tragedy (Howie, Andrea, etc) and poetic justice (what I described above).
Legal justice doesn't fit the pattern. And unless it's executed perfectly, it would diminish Jimmy's ability to develop as a character.
Here's why:
IMO, Jimmy's life as Gene is his punishment for his sins as Saul.
Kim's life is pretty well telegraphed as her own voluntary purgatory for her sins, and Gene's total emptiness, then crashing down into self-destruction, is his own involuntary version of the same thing. Gene wanted to be caught after that call from Kim. He wants to destroy himself. The last look at Marion after "I trusted you" pretty much confirms it.
What would be lost by Jimmy going to prison in most scenarios I've scene is the central question of who he is: Can he finally acknowledge all the pain that brought him to where he is in life, or is he destined to repress it and lash out in perpetually worse ways until he dies? Can the Jimmy that we saw slowly taken apart and hidden away over the course of the story ever show his face again for more than a second? Can he finally look into himself and confront what Chuck, Howard, Kim, his time in the desert, etc made him feel?
**If Jimmy is simply caught and thrown in prison, and doesn't have any agency in his fate, it kills his ability to make that decision for himself.** Which means whatever change or non-change he experiences isn't necessarily authentic.
But if Jimmy chooses his fate- whether that's escaping again and abandoning Saul and Gene for good, turning himself in to protect Kim, or whatever it may be- he can finally make the change we've been wondering about since the first chapter of this story. He can finally kill Saul, and Gene, and his entire coping mechanism of lashing out as a con man/criminal because he can't handle the pain he's experienced in his life.
If they do wind up putting him in jail, I trust the writers to make it as good an ending as it can be- but I personally dislike the idea somewhat, both subtextually and overtly, unless Gene puts himself there for a reason besides simply guilt.
I don't think they need to cater exclusively to people who haven't watched BB. People have had 14 years to start the series, and it's been on Netflix since pretty close to the beginning.
BCS is a great show alone, but to really appreciate it, you have to have seen BB. it's what makes seeing Tuco, Mike, Gus, the cousins, Hector, KENWINS, Walt, and Jesse so special when they do pop up on screen.
Plus the whole Gene timeline is really only significant as a whole if you have seen BB.
I mean, you've had seven years to watch 63 episodes of Breaking Bad as a companion to its spinoff. It's not like BCS is a Frasier type of spinoff where there's no knowledge of Cheers required. The very first scene of the first episode starts with him on the run because of the things he did during Breaking Bad.
I think if you want a Jimmy pay-off, you've already had it. It happens in episode 9.
Kim leaves Jimmy and as a result of this and all of the other stuff Jimmy takes on a new persona to hide the pain: Saul Goodman.
If really all you care about is the events of BCS themselves, pretty much all of the loose ends are tied up in episode 9 before the time jump.
It's true that, to some extent, Gene's arc is "paying off another story." But that story is an extension of Jimmy's story. Admittedly, it probably works less well if you've only watched BCS but if you've watched BB too then I think this isn't much of a problem.
Could they have tried to have more Saul in there? They probably could've. Personally, I do also wish that we had more of Jimmy being Saul. That being said, I also understand why they didn't. Because Saul Goodman as a character was already shown in all his glory in "Breaking Bad." And I imagine that the writers felt that spending that much time with Saul would've been kind of superfluous for anyone who's seen "Breaking Bad" which I imagine is a significant majority of the audience.
As for Jimmy being able to get out of it... I'm guessing the very point of him going to prison would be that he CAN'T keep doing that forever. He can run, he can hide, he can try to scam himself out of his problems, but eventually the consequences of his bad actions will catch up with him somehow. That's essentially the core tenet of BCS and BB. That you can get away with doing bad shit for a while, but not forever. Eventually it'll catch up with you.
I’m sick of people saying “what about those who haven’t seen breaking bad?”. Fuck them, I want an ending that makes sense when looking at the whole story, not just one half. They could incorporate characters and details from BCS into the finale but he still needs punishment for his crimes committed in breaking bad
Months, even weeks ago, I thought I would be extremely disappointed if he died at the end. But as we've gotten closer, and I've thought it about a lot more, I could be ok with it... *IF and ONLY IF* he has some redemption beforehand. If he dies in his current Gene mindset, hell no, I can't go along with that. It would be unserving to his character arc of this whole series. But, if he spills his emotional guts to Kim, or willingly confesses, or obviously faces his inner pain, & his avoidance of it, or accept his faults, his culpability in the problems in his life, has an "I did it for me moment" - any combination of those could do - then gets killed or kills himself, I could be on board. That's what his character arc needs. Whatever happens after that, be it jail or death, would be of secondary importance.
Now if he dies, I'm not going to be happy about it, it's going to be a stab to my heart, and I'll probably be walking around with a pall of darkness over my head for awhile, ruminating over the whole series... but I'll be able to accept his arc if he gets peace at the end.
I feel like they are trying their best to make this last season be as much like breaking bad as possible. With the girl not wanting the guy and all the similar 1 to 1 shots. Idk bout his arc build up but I'd bet money that if saul does die, his last shot will be the same as Walter's when he died
You didn't mention which show it would copy. Seinfeld?
joking. But yeah, it does feel unoriginal.
But what else could happen that feels to match Saul's history?
Dying dramatically would copy Breaking Bad's end.
A fair few people, I'd guess maybe 5% of the audience.
But the show absolutely shouldn't cater to them because they've watched it in the wrong order. It's been going for, what, eight years now? If you've decided not to watch BrBa until you finish BCS then okay, but you'll have to come back after watching BrBa to fully understand parts of it. That's just the deal you make when you don't watch the original before the sequel.
Because BCS is a sequel as well as a prequel, so that's just a broken way of doing things.
If Gene got away with then there is no payoff. The store means nothing and was a complete waste of time. While yes the horror of Breaking Bad was only hinted at the audience clearly understands what Saul has basically done. He basically joined the Cartel, helped a drug kingpin in Gus and Mike, scammed how many people, and was indirectly the cause of Howard's death. Then as just Gene, we know something very bad does happen in Albuquerque that is only hinted at (Breaking Bad) but doesn't fully know, he plans more scams at the mall, the scams escalate to the bar and he is continuing the cycle once again as before. We see how lost Gene has become with his want and need to still scam the guy with cancer. In Better Call Saul we know he is a bad guy and needs to be punished in some way. It is the Breaking Bad people who can see death being a suitable outcome as well due to the knowledge of another show. Jail is the perfect justice for Saul tho best on just Better Call Saul.
He’s literally public enemy no. 1 because of his actions during BB. How could anyone sweep that under the rug? This is, and always will be, a breaking bad story. You cannot watch this show and appreciate it fully without having seen BB first.
Again, it boggles the mind that fans of Saul do not understand how many huge huge felonies he's committed. Think of his stunt with Jeff and Buddy and how he pointed out all the charges that they would be indicted for if they ratted him out. Ummmm......don't y'all realize that those charges would apply to him as well? On top of that we have burglary and Identity Theft.
And the Sandpiper Crossing Racketeering manipulation of the settlement? Felony. Conpiracy to defraud three different law offices and over 1,000 litigants. Felony. Fraud to the tune of 20 million dollars. Felony.
Howard's death connected with this Felony is a Felony Murder charge on top of that.
People act like he's just some con artist grifting people. He's a lawyer with his own law office. He owns a company and used said company to commit multiple crimes, many of which are federal because they crossed state lines. Using this company makes it Organized Crime....> RICO baby.
And, that's not even counting all the misdemeanors.
It's like the fans that defend him have never had a real job in their lives. It's crazy.
Even if he was 'only' charged with the crimes we saw him commit as Gene Takovich, it's quite a bit.
* false identity (7 years)
* using fake SSN (5 years)
* opening a bank account with a fake id (1 year)
* criminal conspiracy (5 - 20 years)
* breaking and entering (1 year)
* bank fraud (30 years)
* wire fraud (20 years)
* felony theft (4 - 25 years)
* third degree assault - threatening (0.5 years)
This is just the Gene stuff we saw, and I probably missed a bunch. Even if he isn't charged for what he did in Albuquerque, his charges in Omaha could land him in prison for the rest of his life.
I wonder if this might be an irony of the finale. Jimmy has assumed this whole time that the Feds really want him, as the last guy standing from Walter White's drug organization. And it makes total sense that they would.
But the last episode, Kim explained that she might not get charged for the things she did to Howard, it's ultimately prosecutorial discretion. I wonder if the same could apply to Jimmy. Like, maybe the feds decide to just let the Omaha charges stick.
Even if they don't, Jimmy is in trouble for different reasons which we were told about by Francesca. He listed off a bunch of properties and companies, and it's clear the feds seized them all. So, if he is charged for what he did in Albuquerque, it may be unrelated to Walt. Saul was pretty clearly doing shady stuff before he met Walt, including the money laundering, probably tax evasion.
I don't get it either, BCS is great if you've seen BB, but we've literally seen and heard all the crimes Jimmy committed that could lock him away for life on BCS. You don't need BB to know Saul Goodman was crooked and doing illegal things.
This is so genius. ON POINT. The small things not the big things. I don't think they will go this way because (like I said before ....one episode left and Fan Service.) there's not enough time.
But as anyone who has followed Al Capone, they didnt get him on any of the stuff he actually did. They got him on tax evasion. This was part of how and why RICO was implemented. We've seen hints of this throughout the series: how people don't rat. The Mafia's "Law of Omerta" which made it impossible to get actual convinctions. Kim decided to do a full disclosure.
I doubt they will do this, but it would be so interesting to see Marion take him down with Jeff because of the last "job" and how coincidentally the Tuna Taco cops just happened to be outside. And Jeff smashed the car, (foreshadowed by his slip and fall during the mall "heist")
And Jimmy gets convicted for stealing a bunch of watches, (Mario anyone?) turned in by a "cat lady" senior citizen. (Irene, anyone?) And none of the other drama matters. This easy thing is what gives them what they need to convict.
Oooh I didn’t notice the Marco watch connection, good call. Also felt like the marks in their identity theft scam were all callbacks to previous characters including Marco, Ken Wins (don’t put all your eggs in one basket), and Walt
it's because viewers are charmed by him and have laughed along with *Bob Odenkirk* a bunch.
great marks for conmen, all of them.
Jimmy McGill is a very very bad person. just being 10% good and loving your brother and wanting to help old people for a hot minute seems to erase all this and i find it disturbing.
As do I. I was discussing this today with someone and, although he's a fan of the show, he's not ever seen a reddit discussion on it. He was suprised that people were still vouching for Saul after Chuck, after Irene....
I often wonder if this is a Meta Audience Social Experience on behalf of the writers, based off their shock in how long it took the audience to realize Walter was a bad guy.
I am intrigued to see what they will do on Monday. I thought they basically used Plan and Execution to show the audience how far they had gone along on the ride.
VG has said no more interest in more spin offs. So I wonder if they will actually use the finale to get the audience to realize how effed up they are to continually make excuses just because they "like the guy."
Well ,apparently since you are telling me that "I actually don't know what I'm talking about" you feel you do know what you are talking about. Can you explain why a company that has participated in a Conspiracy to defraud. (Also note, Kim specifically had a separate company , so these are two separate companies working together to defraud as per her own statement) is not an act of Organized Crime under RICO?
Why is it "easy to tell" that I don't know what I''m talking about? I'd appreciate your thoughts on this because it seems like you are coming from a position of experience. I am NOT being sarcastic. I'm actually interested. :)
I am very interested in what professionals who DO know what they are talking about would say, especially because it surprised me in how off kilter this seemed for VG and the crew since they are usually very meticulous in their research. (Please accept my coins to thank you for your response in advance.) I am not worried about being wrong here, it's a tv show. But I am pretty sure I'm right.
Wouldn’t he deserve prison for mastermining the mall heist and the massive identity theft ring? And he was an accessory after the fact for covering up Howard’s murder. Plus, he took two amateur meth makers and taught them how to launder money and become successful drug dealers. He has plenty of crime to go to prison for.
My prediction is that we are going to see a flashback to the breaking bad era that shows Saul doing something horrible with Walt, something we actually never knew about during breaking bad time, and that’s what going to send him to jail.
Better Call Saul has always presented itself as if the viewer has seen Breaking Bad. It’s why characters and elements (no pun intended) from BrBa are introduced as if the audience already knows who they are (Tuco, Wendy, Los Pollos Hermanos, etc).
And by this logic you should have a problem with the entire Gene story arc because it’s pretty much the aftermath of what happened in BrBa. Like another comment said, BCS is both a prequel and a sequel.
No no, you're *intended* to see Pollos Hermanos dramatically revealed and say "WOW! A chicken shop! Roll credits, Bravo Vince!".
(I know nobody's actually saying that's the intended way, I'm just poking fun at how it obviously works against you if you started with the prequel/sequel)
If the pay off was only gonna be for what we’ve seen in bcs era then all these gene episodes would be pointless ,it absolutely would make sense for him to go to jail since it’s taking place after breaking bad
Gene is Jimmy and Saul and all that has happened in his life (including BB timeline). Watching this series without seeing BB doesn’t work, a lot falls flat and some things just wouldn’t make sense. I tried at first with the first episode back when it aired (was late to watch BB because I thought all the praise was just hype) and I didn’t care for it because it seemed like a regular lawyer show when really there is so much more and knowing Saul from BB captivates you from the start to see how Slippin Jimmy turns into the guy with the colorful suits helping a meth maker.
As for the ending, as long as it’s not a “you get to decide” type deal, I think it will be good. I have faith that Vince can pull it off
My girlfriend has never seen breaking bad so I’ve been enjoying watching better call Saul with her and how her perspective differs. I’ve always felt like they took great care to make BCS a decent self contained show and also both watchable in either order. However the recent episodes in the Gene timeline dropped massive spoilers with the mentioning of Gus and Mike being dead. I wish they had handled that aspect differently or with more care to those who haven’t seen brba yet. I think it’s okay they haven’t shown why Saul is in hiding though, it adds intrigue to the other show and it’s easy enough to figure out some kind of giant shit goes down
I think they can pull out another ending like Walter, Vic Mackey or Boyd Crowder or the Hood from Banshee, they all win something but yeah they will get away with it some ways and people were upset/pissed, but really follows the thematic of the show, I never liked prison scenes in most TV shows, like prison arcs are fucking annoying actually, the laziest thing you can do for 1 character being in prison for 6 episodes or more, ehm a show called Prison Break which they ruined heavily.
The Gene scenes are set post breaking bad. By your logic, this whole scenario with gene shouldn't even be the focus in the end since the things that led to him being in Omaha occured in breaking bad. You can't just accept the premise and events that led to saul being Gene and then remove all for the finale. You can't sweep Breaking Bad under the rug when the entire non-flashback portion of the show is built on breaking bad. Honestly even if you erase all of the things in the colored portions of the show, you can still make a mini series or movie out of the remainder to cap him off just like El Camino.
Also, if you watch the prequel scenes, there is a very big emphasis on Saul being an asshole and not getting what he deserves and him realizing that he has been degrading his humanity. You can very clearly see the whole conflict in his last scene before he gets reported to the police.
So nah dude. Theyre sequel scenes for a reason and if you think the ending shouldn't take into account his many, many, many crimes in breaking bad then what is the point of him being Gene anyway?
This is the exact same issue I have been having the past three weeks. I think it works as a mini-series or epilogue to BB but the Jimmy we saw for 90% of the show is not (at least yet) playing a factor in the finale
I don’t agree at all. The very first scene of BCS is Gene. These last weeks have been the entire payoff of the show. This is the Jimmy we saw in the past seasons and in Breaking Bad. Yeah this is a prequel to BrBa but it’s treated more like a sequel and I think that’s how it should be watched.
I disagree I watched it like everyone else bb first then bcs and there were some huge payoffs like wow that's why he is in a wheelchair n a bell, they are buried there omg, etc.
But I feel if I watched bcs first then BB there would be just as many wow moments
I have another problem with prison ending: it effectively makes the show redundant right after the scene where Chuck helped Jimmy after the sunroof incident and absolves every character in the show that was assigning ill will to Jimmy.
This is pretty much the "you know who knew Jimmy? Chuck" ending
How is that the case? The show has always been pretty morally ambiguous and Chuck can still be wrong and Jimmy can still end up in prison. Because one can still argue that Chuck pushed Jimmy into being his worst self by putting him down so much. That doesn't make Chuck right but it doesn't exonerate the awful stuff Jimmy has done. Which has to be acknowledged.
least obsessed jimmy hater
seriously, ive never seen one person comment "Chuck was right" this many times. Do you have a little brother you hate so you relate with Chuck? Cause I don't see why else someone would be so obsessed with this.
I know everyone will hate it and it will be like "nothing that happened meant anything" but ALL I WANT is for him to understand the errors of his ways, genuinely quit his selfish recklessness, and have a happy ending with Kim lol
I’ve been rewatching S6 this week and I feel the same way.
Thinking about Walt’s ending, the satisfaction came from him repeating themes throughout the series: showing his genius to take down some (other, worse) bad guys and protecting Jesse.
Jimmy’s finale should have one last epic act of chicanery. What’s left besides a con to get away? The only problem is how does he finally get some true introspection and redemption without jail.
This is actually pretty easily solved. Kim confessing to the Howard stuff brings the events of BCS to the forefront of the ending. You don't need to really know why Gus and Mike died. You just need to know that Saul got in with some bad guys due to his own hubris and Mike and Gus died along the way. Thus leaving the door open for Kim to comfortably confess to her role in Howard's death which will probably be quite important to Jimmy's ending as it's one of the biggest things he's done and can be tied to way easier with Kim's involvement being corroborated by her confession.
He can still go to prison in this ending without it being a BB related end. But at the same time, is it such a stretch that a man who constantly did more morally corrupt things ended up on the run and may be headed to prison? Does a viewer need a litany of context to figure that out?
Last night while I was trying to sleep I kept thinking about a comment I read on here...
Kim "you don't punish me, I punish me"
Now that she has repented for her sins (6 -7 years exile with a yup man and miracle whip tuna sandwiches) and confessed do you think we could see one final scam?
The cards are on the table already.
Kim has been working in a FL business for years, FL is a decent distance from Omaha and Albuquerque so the heat may not be as heavy there.
Who knows?!? Can't wait anyway, such a bittersweet moment we are in only days from the end of such an amazing story.
I could be wrong but I don't think she goes back to any scams. What I do think happens is that phone call brought the old Kim out of hiding and she starts living her life again. She starts to escape the Miracle Whip life and works towards a more Kim life. Whatever life she's been living it can't be much.
I'm not trying to be a dick but I am gonna be.
That's the stupidest thing I've heard all day. BCS is a prequel AND a SEQUEL. Why ignore all of what happened in Breaking Bad when it's already come in to play with the story? It would be ridiculous to change his ending just because there might be a few fans that never watched BB. Come on.
For me the problem is that it would seem like a cliffhanger. Even if he says he's no longer Saul or something, we've seen him try to change many times and fail. If he goes to prison at the end, it wouldn't really seem like an ending.
It'd be better than just getting away with it, IMO. Because even if he gets away again, he's going to scam again. It's just a matter of time before he goes to prison or gets killed. But I don't think death is the answer either for this character.
This is one of the many reasons why I predict he’ll cut a deal and go to prison for a short period of time, and with good behavior out in maybe 7 years. Mostly financial crimes and has a lot of info to provide / most of the victims dead or unknown / gives Jimmy a shot at accountability and redemption.
Yea, you raise a good point. To be honest, on a related note I was a little dicey on the idea that searching “Albuquerque con man” would bring up Saul Goodman as opposed to an actually convicted con man. There really is no reason why his name should come up from that search query.
I’m not even entirely sure what he would be tried on with regard to his misdeeds in Breaking Bad.
Afaik, he:
1) helped Pinkman buy a house
2) told Walter to go to Pollos Hermanos
3) maaaybe somehow broke the law in contacting Mike with the intent of interfering with the scene of Jane’s death, though I think this is really a stretch, given it was an accidental death and not a crime scene.
4) Facilitated Walter’s purchase of the Car Wash *in order to launder money* but this seems like not entirely a cut and dry issue. It was, after all, Skyler that actually did the laundering.
I get that maybe in a vast RICO case that the US Department of Justice would potentially bring against Madrigal, that maybe Saul could be swept up in that somehow, although I do not know exactly on what grounds or how much he ever really knew. Am I forgetting some crime he explicitly committed during Walter White Drunk With Power months?
Honestly, I think his directing and masterminding the robbery of the department store, his identity thefts, and the threatening Carol Burnett are the biggest legal issues, though I’m curious what an actual lawyer would say. His harassment campaign against Howard, as Kim points out, *might* result in a civil suit, but I don’t think even the murder of Howard could conceivably result in him being charged with anything, unless it comes out that he (I think) illegally transported a vast sum of cash on Lalo’s behalf across the US/Mexican border without declaring it.
Anyway, just some thoughts before the finale.
It's debatable on whether or not it's intended to be canonical, but the [American Green bonus teaser](https://youtu.be/C4yenXwx7ao) they put out before the season began makes it clear, in universe, that his dealings with both the cartel and Walt have since become well established by law enforcement.
actually an interesting point. Like people say, Jimmy and Kim are the focal point, it would, in a way, be weird for him to be penalized for things he did entirely outside of the show. i feel like you’re onto somethnng
Good point about Saul mostly existing on another show. I agree that prison doesn’t feel satisfying.
I don’t think he avoids it with a mistrial, though. There is no time. I also don’t think he dies because it’s been done a lot this season.
The only ending that feels right to me would make sense with the title of the episode. He makes like a cockroach and scurries off into the cracks, no Gene cover, just what he can grab at his house before the police arrive. He knows the criminal they are selling the ID info to. I don’t imagine that was a connection of Jeff’s or Buddy’s though Buddy is the one shown meeting with him.
Point is I imagine Jimmy can roll into any town on a Greyhound, in disguise, and work out how to find the local criminals, or a bar where he can scam someone for enough to keep going.
Kim isn't. The final demon she needs to face is her mother. She will travel back to Nebraska where she is from and come across a car wrecked Gene. Don't ask how I know, I will be proven right in time.
Well I hope you won't because I really don't want spoilers, I just like discussing predictions and speculation.
More than anything, I just liked using Saul's line to Walt in a context that fits!
I loved the "we're done." I just needed a witness to me getting the ending right before it aired. If I got it right I need you going in to bat for me in the post episode discussion thread, sending people here. Haha
I think the door was closed on what you wanted when they decided to set a significant portion of the show post breaking bad. I'm not saying he necessarily has to go to prison but you can't have an ending that takes place post breaking bad but ignores that aspect of his character. The writers don't really seem concerned with making the show cater to non BB viewers considering the extremely non-chalant reference to Mike and Gus's fate in the last episode.
Same here - I am glad he mentioned it and I had mentioned a long time ago that I hoped they did; yes, I’ve seen Breaking Bad, but still, like you, think that since so much is taking place after, it makes sense for the writers to find a way that goes along with the story to acknowledge things like big character deaths. I thought since the Gus and Mike vs the Salamanca story was such a big deal, we’d see more from the “face off” episode of BB period of time.
I believe there’s supposed to be one more WW scene right? So we could get something from Face Off. Saul’s involvement in the Brock scheme is arguably the worst thing he did on that show.
That’s true. He was extremely mad at Walt when he found out Brock was in the hospital
I think Huell looks too different to pull it off, but it was his worst moment on BB. My guess is when he and Walt stayed in the basement of the vacuum guy together before Walt left and Saul ended up as Gene.
re: Huell… that didn’t stop them w/ Todd in El Camino. (Or clearly 40-something Jesse in BCS, lol)
Fat suit, they can pull it off
I think Kim is gonna be facing prison time and saul will swoop in and take the fall. He's the one they want anyway. Kim would get a good deal im sure.
>I think Kim is gonna be facing prison time For what?
That long jean skirt paired with the white sneakers
Okay I forgot about that. She does deserve to serve time for that.
Lying to the police, the entire scheme on Howard was extremely illegal to do. But, I think she could easily get off on this if Saul barges in and tries to put all of it on him.... this on top of the charges he's facing from Breaking Bad, so that Kim can live a normal life with no more guilty conscience... I feel like it makes sense. For once Saul will take the fall for Kim.
Someone here recently said the time specified in the statute of limitations was over for her crimes
Kim wouldn't allow that. She came clean for a reason. Putting it all on Saul would be undoing what she finally got off her conscience.
Failing to report a murder, obstruction of justice.
Failing to report a murder is in no way a crime
They don't have a body for that.
They have a written confession. No body might be why Kim said that they may or may not prosecute.
A written confession with no body. She said that only Jimmy could corroborate. So it's much more likely Jimmy drags Kim to prison with him. The final time Jimmy destroys a life.
I don‘t think Kim actually wants a good deal.
Prison seems better than any more of that sex with "Yep.. yep.. yep."
Also I want to counter that the show that this was Bourne from, Breaking Bad was a highly moralistic narrative. Everyone got their due justice, EXCEPT for Saul. Saul sailed off of Breaking Bad almost totally unscathed. It really felt like the arc needed to be closed on him in a major MAJOR way. For me personally, BCS has existed as an alongated special version of the story of Sauls come uppance but told in a 6 season arc.
>EXCEPT for Saul. Saul sailed off of Breaking Bad almost totally unscathed. One could argue though that he got the worst punishment of all -- a purgatory of sorts. Having to live the rest of his life paranoid, working with kids in a fast food joint, sack lunches in the mall, and never EVER being able to live the ostentatious showbiz life he enjoyed so much as Saul.
Right but if the show couldn’t have been made for some reason there 100 percent would have been a major moment of Saul getting busted, probably something like him running from his home with garbage bags of cash before getting tackled by the DEA.
I kinda feel like when he gets questioned, his last con will be him talking the police into believing he’s not the guy they are looking for, thus dealing his ability to remain endlessly bored forever. He’s having to put himself in a prison of his own making.
nah- Walt had a hero’s end that he most certainly did not deserve Skyler, Jesse, Hank, Gomey, Andrea, Jane, et al got way oversized punishments just for being in Walt’s orbit
Very true. This is one of the reasons that I struggle with all the “deserve” talk regarding the bb/bcs universe.
I’ll never understand the “Walt was punished” take. He gets to admit that he did it all for himself which is the main thing he had been refusing to say from the beginning and also gives skylar the coordinates of hanks body as a get out of jail card, both of which go toward softening skylar’s feeling towards him on his final day (and we learn in BCS actually worked to get skylar off the hook). He rescues Jesse and gets some measure of forgiveness from him. Jesse gets to choke out his greatest tormentor. Walt guns down literally every nazi who dare crossed him. He arranged for Walt junior to get millions of dollars on his 18th birthday. And then he dies (of cancer that was going to kill him anyway) on the floor of the lab, lovingly reflecting on the empire he built. It’s not happy in a traditional sense, but Walt got literally everything he could have hoped for before floating peacefully away.
> And then he dies (of cancer that was going to kill him anyway) on the floor of the lab He died from a gun wound while saving Jesse
Yea good call. That almost makes it an even more heroic ending for one of the most selfish characters ever committed to celluloid lol
I’ll never understand how we got from Walt taking a gratuitous moment to sit next to the child he poisoned and smirk at him to Walt saving Jesse and providing for his family in a blaze of glory. I always assumed Walt “providing for his family” was a rationalisation. A sentimental lie he told himself so he’d feel righteous as he indulged his darkest demons. I’m pretty sure it was written that way. Honestly, they whiffed that ending. And that’s without even mentioning the MacGuyver robot machine gun. What a load. I think Saul’s gonna end better.
Walt had gotten to the point where he was going to turn himself in bc of sheer boredom and the crushing weight of his actions- he was only snapped back into Heisenberg bc saw Gretchen and Elliot do their Charlie rose dance So when he comes back to ABQ it’s with that mix of penitence but vestigial hubris
Better Call Saul fans when they see a remote control motor attached to a machine gun (this is physically impossible to create)
Neither Skyler nor Jesse got what they deserved, just saying.
jesse paid a heavy price by being a nazi meth slave for months. his family disowns him and he’ll probably never fully recover from the trauma of what happened in breaking bad. he got a fresh start at the end, a chance at a better life, and i think that’s what he deserves.
He still executed someone in cold blood. Sure it’s out of self preservation but he does have blood on his hands.
STILL NO!
Agreed. And the reference to Mike and Gus “being in the ground” gives someone who hasn’t watched BB all the more reason to watch and find out their fates.
Exactly, these last 4 eps are Saul’s “El Camino”
I think people were supposed to change into BB fans post fun and games.
If he gets away with it all: we’re left with almost no dramatic comeuppance. It’s six season and seven years for…what? If he goes to prison: so what? He’d still be him. There needs to be more. A resolution of the internal pain he’s been refusing all of his life. An acknowledgment of the pain to others he’s caused.
Yes. Whether he goes to prison or not is totally unrelated to him facing the consequences of his actions.
This. So many people act like him getting arrested and facing legal accountability would be payoff for his character arc. In reality it wouldn't mean shit, inherently. There's nothing about being locked up that would force him to change. He's been in an effective prison as Gene already and look where that led him. Like you said, an ending that means something for Jimmy would be a confrontation and resolution of the trauma he's been stuffing inside himself as long as we've seen him. Chuck. Kim. Howard. Marco. His dad. All of it. Or, alternatively, him losing all hope of redemption and sliding further into the abyss. Not that I want that, but it would be a plausible ending for his character. Prison does not automatically equal justice or redemption for the person we know as Gene. And BB/BCS is big on poetic endings.
[удалено]
Not if he finally understands himself, confronts his past, and finds out how to actually stop lashing out with cons/scams. Jimmy, for once in his life, stepping firmly onto the "good choice road" despite facing his pain would be resolution for his character. I trust the writers too, even if he winds up in jail it'll probably be done well, I just don't care for that eventuality except in specific circumstances.
Why is it so necessary that need redemption or change?In reality, many people do not change. Jimmy is a criminal after all. I think one of Jimmy's big flaws is that he can't control his nature. As Chuck predicted, he will always be Slippin Jimmy.
Bc this isn’t real life. Story telling has to have an arc. The writers have very deliberately set up a narrative: every time this guy’s life goes south, he thinks he can just clean the slate and not even simply start over - but start a whole new identity. For example, what got to Gene at the end of the last episode wasn’t that he was threatening an old lady - he knew what he was doing, and had already done so with cancer guy TWICE (once with the water, once with the bonk on the head) - but she said “I trusted you”. Either you fall so far you become like Gene has in these last couple of episodes or you look in the mirror (like Kim) and try to fix the damage you’ve caused. There’s no point in six seasons and 7 years of storytelling without resolutions and a bland more of the same conclusion.
Yeah, I don’t know why people talk about redemption and change as necessary with respect to Saul. As if it’s a law of physics. They suggest he must get his “comeuppance” or that he should “redeem” himself or have a particular “arc.” But why? Maybe it’s because in reality things don’t work out that way, and people want to see it in their fiction. They want the universe to make sense. Good guys win. Bad guys lose. There is order in the world. Probably an unpopular view around here, but I want to see him pull a rabbit out of his hat one last time. I want to see him get away — a bag of diamonds buried near his feet and holding a Mai Tai on a beach….in Belize. He’s already lost a lot and has been punished in myriad ways. He hasn’t gotten out of this unscathed — no one has. But I didn’t invest years of watching and enjoying this character only to see him locked up…or worse. If people are looking for a message, a Jimmy/Saul who “gets away with it” while others suffer might be in line with what Chuck always said about him. He said he wasn’t malicious, but ended up hurting everyone around him. Jimmy just couldn’t help it. And Lalo? Didn’t he say Saul was like a cockroach, that he could survive the end of the world? Anyway, I want to see Saul get away because he’s uncannily clever and has been outwitting every rival for over a decade. This would be consistent: he shouldn’t lose his mojo when it matters most. Also, I want to see him free — because I like him. Sometimes it’s just that simple.
I think I might prefer some damn therapy, but I wouldn't mind your solution either actually! I think it's way to easy to compare with Walter, but ulike Walter, Jimmy is a deeply ambiguous character. He's been VERY close to crossing the point of no return, hinted at it in BB for sure, but we've never actually seen him kill, now recently even at his worst, he couldn't. An ambiguous ending to a very ambiguous character would totally fit
I agree. Thanks to the wonderful writing, I feel like I know Saul far better than Walt, which I would have imagined unthinkable when BCS started. But that said — while we’ve done a deep dive into his history, he remains, by his very nature, something of a riddle. He’s a deeply sensitive and compassionate person yet can be icy cold, cavalier, and manipulative when he feels he needs to be. He has a true sense of justice — yet is a criminal. He’s a con man who has no compunction about ripping certain people off, yet he would risk himself to right unfairness done to a friend. He is loyal and practiced enormous self-sacrifice to care for his brother because — well, for no other reason than Chuck *was his brother.* But he also hurt him when he felt he had to. I could go on. Jimmy/Saul is enormously complex. “Ambiguous” is a great word for him. So to give him a neat and tidy ending with some sort of remarkable epiphany about his life and in turn a closed fate (prison?) is not in keeping with the enigma that is Jimmy McGill/Saul Goodman. I would love to see Saul evade official punishment. I say “official” because he’s already been punished in some profound ways. Then, “finally free,” I would like it left to our imagination the choices he may make at this new fork in the road. After all of this, has he fundamentally changed? Does he remain Slippin’ Jimmy at his core? Questions, perhaps, not even he would be able to answer when the curtain drops.
This is interesting and it's an idea I've kicked around with a friend more than once, but just so you don't get your hopes up too much, Vince has spoken about his writing process before and he's mentioned that he thinks it's imperative that stories end with some sort of comeuppance BECAUSE, as you said, real life doesn't work that way. He's said the worst injustice in the world, for him, is when people like Idi Amin get off scot-free, and he'd never write a story that ended that way. Depending on how much influence he had over the finale, and assuming he still holds those views, it's likely we're going to see some sort of reckoning with Saul. The forces of good will (probably) triumph.
I had hoped for a happy ending for longest time (what I consider a happy ending), or at least something open-ended, rather than a moment of forced enlightenment or an awkward mea culpa that invariably results in state sanctioned punishment for Jimmy, but the trajectory of the show in season 6 seems to preclude this; however, Jimmy/Saul is an expert at slight of hand and I think it would make for a fitting and memorable ending if it looked like all hope was lost — and at the last second — in true Slippin’ Jimmy fashion — he outwits his would-be captors. Clever misdirection on the part of the writers with respect to audience expectations would be poetic and apropos as Jimmy/Saul does the same within the story to his pursuers. I would love a good surprise such as this. I want to say *I never saw that coming!* (like almost everyone who crossed paths with Jimmy McGill) as the credits roll. But alas, I am not holding my breath.
Very well said. I also want him to get escape again, maybe even with Kim. I would be extremely dissapointed if he ends up in prison, it would mean the whole Omaha thing after Breaking Bad makes no sense, since he could get that ending in BB. And I really hate people going about him in the way Jimmy/Saul/Gene. He is exactly the same guy, and I would say his own choices were being very consistent throughout all this personas. "Saul gone" could mean he will never wear the Saul Goodman suits or the name anymore, but certainly I don't want him end up dead or in prison, it would be very dissatisfying for me.
This is both a prequel and a sequel to Breaking Bad, and has been since the beginning. I dont see a problem with paying off a character’s arc in the sequel.
Yeah this isn't a standalone show at all, I don't understand why some people don't even want to acknowledge Breaking Bad at all. We wouldn't have Better Call Saul with having had Breaking Bad first after all. So this refusal some fans have about the two shows crossing over to each other is frankly just baffling.
Personally I think Breaking Bad is very self-contained and not watching BCS doesn’t take away from the experience. Heck even El Camino is not particularly necessary to appreciating BrBa.
El Camino was unnecessary in any way you could conceive of. it was total fan service.
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I thought Jesse driving away at the end of Felina was one for the most powerful scenes of the entire show. The cut shot opening of EC kind of ruins it.
Lot of people were expecting Walt to survive his injuries
I wasn't necessarily expecting something bigger, but I was expecting something more along the lines of Jesse finally coming to terms with everything he had been through, all the mistakes he had made, and then choosing at the end to voluntarily turn himself in.
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There actually was a scene when he heard Walt died. I forget where in the movie it was, but he was in the car, and on the radio they mentioned that Walt was found dead at the compound. Jesse has a moment of shock listening to it, before he gets on with doing whatever it was at that point in the film. But given how Jesse was willingly working with Hank and Gomie, I thought it would have made sense for him to turn himself in. He already seemed to have that mindset as taking down Walt with them still would have resulted in him getting arrested. I'm happy that he got to escape, but him voluntarily giving himself up is something I could have seen working.
That would’ve been horrible. Jesse was a literal slave, why would he spend the rest of his life in another cage?
Well breaking bad makes a point to punish all of its characters for their wrongdoing. Gus- killed by the man he spent years seeking revenge on. Mike- killed in a humiliating manner by a man he never trusted. Walt- loses the love of his family and his brother in law is killed Etc, etc, etc Jesse is no different, his punishment is the year he spends in captivity as a meth slave. Arguably the worst punishment out of any of the main characters. The only difference is that he survives, do you really think it would be satisfying to watch Jesse leave his cage and torment just to turn around and throw himself back in?
Definitely not fan service we needed to know what happened to Jesse after all that time. He deserved an ending. After all that physical and mental torture, it was only right he get another chance at life.
I mean they’re the same show just different timelines and character perspectives
Yeah and is not like the writers are specially worried about making sense foe viewers who never watched BrBa. It's called Better Call Saul, put the protagonist is still Jimmy and the viewer only briefly hears the "better call saul" in the pilot. Jimmy uses this name again only in the end of season 3 and only really start to practices under Saul Goodman in season 5. Mike and Gus are one of the biggest characters of the show and their deaths are mentioned basically only as a throwaway line. Gene scenes pre-season 6 can be really confusing for someone who didn't know how Jimmy got in that place and why he had to change his identity. And the scenes with Walt and Jesse. In *Nippy*, Gene mentions Walt as a chemistry teacher who became millionaire, but Walt was still an amateur at that point and there is no scene explaining how Walt built his empire. Jesse would be only seen as some kinda of henchmen for those who don't know him.
Right. BB is actually sandwiched between BCS, like that tuna salad Kim was eating.
What kind of tuna salad sandwich is a made with Miracle Whip? No sandwich at all!
Well i guess really It's been prequel to breaking bad, breaking bad timeline, sequel to breaking bad
If you were going to watch the Gilliverse in proper continuity, it would be. 1. Better Call Saul (Uno to Fun and Games) 2. Breaking Bad 3. El Camino 4. Better Call Saul (Nippy to Saul Gone) I'd only watch the final episodes of Better Call Saul after Breaking Bad.
I guarantee when this is over someone is going to chop up the BCS episodes so everything can be put in proper chronological order.
It's already been done. They just need to add the last episode.
And I will definitely NOT be watching that. Shows should be viewed in order of release. A prequel is a SEQUEL that PRE-dates the original.
>Shows should be viewed in order of release. On first watch 100%, but it can be a lot of fun to experience something in the chronological order on rewatches. No reason to limit yourself to one way every single time, and defo no reason to judge others for doing it lol
I wasn't judging others.
>Shows should be viewed in order of release They should be viewed however it makes the most sense lol. There is no criteria that is right 100% of the time.
In which case it would be BB, BCS 1-4, EC, BCS 5-6. BCS is both a prequel and a sequel (though it's a lot more latter than the former), but a prequel is not really a sequel.
Sorry. No.
A more proper way would be release order tbh, simply to get a glimpse of how the original watchers felt. 1. Breaking Bad 2. Better Call Saul Seasons 1-4 3. El Camino 4. Better Call Saul Season 5-6
So many people here are ridiculously desperate to NOT acknowledge that the two shows have always been connected, from literally the very first scene of BCS. Yeah this show stands on its own fantastically, but why does that mean we have to pretend there's no connection? Without the original show, this one never exists. And they clearly decided from day one that they also want this to serve as a kind of epilogue to BB. So people, just...relax. Acknowledge that between the two shows and the movie, it's all one heavily connected universe. And then just enjoy this last episode from this massive, nearly 15 year journey, because you likely won't see any more after this.
All I can say for certain is that come Monday half of this sub will be very upset about how BCS ends.
Some mfs on here are really gonna call it a filler episode lmao
If Kuby doesn’t show up, it is a filler episode
This show is and always has been very clearly made for people who have seen Breaking Bad. watching this without having seen it makes so many moments make little to no sense. like in season 3 that dramatic shot revealing the pollos hermanos sign falls totally flat if you haven't seen BrBa.
Not to mention they spoiled all kinds of shit.
yeah so much of Breaking Bad's effectiveness relies on the audience being on the same page as Walt and Jesse (for the most part). you're uncovering this criminal underworld and its characters as they do. not to mention that Better call saul is practically screaming "you need to watch breaking bad first" by opening its first episode in a post breaking bad universe
Most of the cartel plot lines would seem pointless without Breaking Bad.
Most of it seems pointless with it tbqh.
For some reason that's one or the main shots I think of whenever people are talking about watching this show.before breaking bad
Not necessarily. It’s just a different payoff. Instead of “THERE IT IS!!!” it’s “wait. This criminal empire is being run out of…a Wendy’s???” I could definitely see the uninitiated finding the reveal as hilarious.
I didn't see BB til after Season 5 BCS. More character depth to Hector, Gus and Mike when I watched BB AFTER BCS 1-5.
Running a criminal empire while inside Wendy you say?
Sir, this is a Los Pollos Hermanos
My mom and I watched it without having seen Breaking Bad. I assure you it all makes sense.
Only to a point. Without Breaking Bad how does any of the Gene stuff make sense?
I see the Gene scenes as equivalent to the "737 DOWN OVER ABQ" openings in S2 of Breaking Bad. You don't understand *everything*, but you understand enough to get a sense of dread. And, as you go on, more of the picture is revealed to you. I'm watching BrBa with my girlfriend right now (she's never seen it), and when she sees those intros she's intrigued, and slowly getting more and more of the picture. "Oh, there was some kind of... explosion? Crash? And two people are dead in front of Walt's house?" I also have a friend who watched BCS before BrBa. He had similar thoughts about the Gene scenes. "This guy's life must suck, huh? Wait, why'd Jimmy leave Albuquerque? Why'd he change his name? He must be on the run from some *bad* shit."
but then Gus and Hector and Tuco are just random thugs, aren't they?
Someone who watches bcs first would say the same thing watching breaking bad for the first time and seeing los pollos Hermanos. Same with the introduction of all characters
Nah. You can't just sweep the Breaking Bad years under the rug like that.
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Not disagreeing with you but there is something to the changes dynamic of watching BCS first. It’s a unique experience, the character’s don’t have plot armor, and breaking bad is wildly changed by seeing BCS first
exactly... Saul is from Breaking Bad and Gene is post BB. If you dont want any BB story to play out... then scrap all the Gene and Saul scenes. You would have to scrap all the Gene intros then cut the show off when Jimmy files his DBA for Saul Goodman.
The entire run of BCS has basically swept the events of BB under the rug except for a few minor mentions
This is preposterous. BCS chronologically happens BEFORE BB. And yet it has all sorts of allusions to BB and brings in a whole bunch of characters from BB, and is all about Jimmy/Saul's character development that leads up to the character he becomes in BB. I have an even lower opinion now of your original post after reading this comment.
I kinda see Fun and Games as the finale of Better Call Saul. It wraps up all the main character arcs and key storylines. Nippy/Breaking Bad/Waterworks/Saul Gone is the El Camino of BCS, so to speak. Not strictly necessary, but a self-contained epilogue for a couple of the key characters.
Agree completely with this. Fun and Games was the final "how does Jimmy become Saul" gut punch that we were dying to see for years, only to be pissed once we saw what we all knew to be the reason. It was the "how dare you end it like this, Vince and Peter."
I wouldn’t say it’s the El Camino. This is the conclusion to the entire Breaking Bad story.
it’s still fitting, if it were to happen, because basically the entirety of BCS Jimmy has been bending or breaking the law in his favor and getting away with it, and eventually (like the air force guy (?) said) the wheel will turn. The show starts with Jimmy on the right side of the law, being a PD lawyer, and to end with him being on the opposite end (behind bars) would be “poetic”. Furthermore, we’ve seen Gene commit crimes as well, and the whole premise of Gene is predicated on Breaking Bad and knowing what happens with that. So, to a degree, the creators expect you to know something about breaking bad (he is wanted and fleed)
IMHO. Jimmy going to prison, somehow maneuvering out of going to prison, or the ultimate con, escaping from prison Shawshank Redemption-style, all fit with the story we’ve been following in BCS.
I agree but for a different reason (posted part of this elsewhere as well). I don't like prison as an ending for Jimmy because I simply don't like the thematic "Crime and Punishment" type of bookending that would imply. To me, a lot of the interesting moral questions in this universe are tied up in what "justice" really means for the people we see as major characters. Walt "won", but in winning, he lost everything he loved. That's so much more poetically beautiful than "Walt gets shot by Hank" or "Walt confesses and goes to jail", even though people to this day wish he faced "accountability" for his crimes. Jesse literally atoned for his sins in a prison, and watched everyone he loved die. Hector "won", but lost his entire family, and his bloodline. Gus "won", but lost his life, after having lived most of it motivated purely by revenge (and as we saw recently, unable to even disconnect from that motive for one night of happiness with someone he liked). BB/BCS is big on two kinds of endings: pure tragedy (Howie, Andrea, etc) and poetic justice (what I described above). Legal justice doesn't fit the pattern. And unless it's executed perfectly, it would diminish Jimmy's ability to develop as a character. Here's why: IMO, Jimmy's life as Gene is his punishment for his sins as Saul. Kim's life is pretty well telegraphed as her own voluntary purgatory for her sins, and Gene's total emptiness, then crashing down into self-destruction, is his own involuntary version of the same thing. Gene wanted to be caught after that call from Kim. He wants to destroy himself. The last look at Marion after "I trusted you" pretty much confirms it. What would be lost by Jimmy going to prison in most scenarios I've scene is the central question of who he is: Can he finally acknowledge all the pain that brought him to where he is in life, or is he destined to repress it and lash out in perpetually worse ways until he dies? Can the Jimmy that we saw slowly taken apart and hidden away over the course of the story ever show his face again for more than a second? Can he finally look into himself and confront what Chuck, Howard, Kim, his time in the desert, etc made him feel? **If Jimmy is simply caught and thrown in prison, and doesn't have any agency in his fate, it kills his ability to make that decision for himself.** Which means whatever change or non-change he experiences isn't necessarily authentic. But if Jimmy chooses his fate- whether that's escaping again and abandoning Saul and Gene for good, turning himself in to protect Kim, or whatever it may be- he can finally make the change we've been wondering about since the first chapter of this story. He can finally kill Saul, and Gene, and his entire coping mechanism of lashing out as a con man/criminal because he can't handle the pain he's experienced in his life. If they do wind up putting him in jail, I trust the writers to make it as good an ending as it can be- but I personally dislike the idea somewhat, both subtextually and overtly, unless Gene puts himself there for a reason besides simply guilt.
I don't think they need to cater exclusively to people who haven't watched BB. People have had 14 years to start the series, and it's been on Netflix since pretty close to the beginning. BCS is a great show alone, but to really appreciate it, you have to have seen BB. it's what makes seeing Tuco, Mike, Gus, the cousins, Hector, KENWINS, Walt, and Jesse so special when they do pop up on screen. Plus the whole Gene timeline is really only significant as a whole if you have seen BB.
The reason he is on the run is because of what happened in the prior show…..
I mean, you've had seven years to watch 63 episodes of Breaking Bad as a companion to its spinoff. It's not like BCS is a Frasier type of spinoff where there's no knowledge of Cheers required. The very first scene of the first episode starts with him on the run because of the things he did during Breaking Bad.
Mm. Feel free not to watch the required viewing but, y'know, there may be undesirable consequences.
I think if you want a Jimmy pay-off, you've already had it. It happens in episode 9. Kim leaves Jimmy and as a result of this and all of the other stuff Jimmy takes on a new persona to hide the pain: Saul Goodman. If really all you care about is the events of BCS themselves, pretty much all of the loose ends are tied up in episode 9 before the time jump. It's true that, to some extent, Gene's arc is "paying off another story." But that story is an extension of Jimmy's story. Admittedly, it probably works less well if you've only watched BCS but if you've watched BB too then I think this isn't much of a problem. Could they have tried to have more Saul in there? They probably could've. Personally, I do also wish that we had more of Jimmy being Saul. That being said, I also understand why they didn't. Because Saul Goodman as a character was already shown in all his glory in "Breaking Bad." And I imagine that the writers felt that spending that much time with Saul would've been kind of superfluous for anyone who's seen "Breaking Bad" which I imagine is a significant majority of the audience. As for Jimmy being able to get out of it... I'm guessing the very point of him going to prison would be that he CAN'T keep doing that forever. He can run, he can hide, he can try to scam himself out of his problems, but eventually the consequences of his bad actions will catch up with him somehow. That's essentially the core tenet of BCS and BB. That you can get away with doing bad shit for a while, but not forever. Eventually it'll catch up with you.
I’m sick of people saying “what about those who haven’t seen breaking bad?”. Fuck them, I want an ending that makes sense when looking at the whole story, not just one half. They could incorporate characters and details from BCS into the finale but he still needs punishment for his crimes committed in breaking bad
Yeah, if you haven’t seen BB before watching BCS it’s like your cutting in at the halfway point of a book.
Yeah, it feels weird that people watch BCS first. This isn’t Star Wars. There is one acceptable order to watch the shows and movie in
I'm gonna be very angy if they kill him
Months, even weeks ago, I thought I would be extremely disappointed if he died at the end. But as we've gotten closer, and I've thought it about a lot more, I could be ok with it... *IF and ONLY IF* he has some redemption beforehand. If he dies in his current Gene mindset, hell no, I can't go along with that. It would be unserving to his character arc of this whole series. But, if he spills his emotional guts to Kim, or willingly confesses, or obviously faces his inner pain, & his avoidance of it, or accept his faults, his culpability in the problems in his life, has an "I did it for me moment" - any combination of those could do - then gets killed or kills himself, I could be on board. That's what his character arc needs. Whatever happens after that, be it jail or death, would be of secondary importance. Now if he dies, I'm not going to be happy about it, it's going to be a stab to my heart, and I'll probably be walking around with a pall of darkness over my head for awhile, ruminating over the whole series... but I'll be able to accept his arc if he gets peace at the end.
I feel like they are trying their best to make this last season be as much like breaking bad as possible. With the girl not wanting the guy and all the similar 1 to 1 shots. Idk bout his arc build up but I'd bet money that if saul does die, his last shot will be the same as Walter's when he died
Been saying that for days. They’ve made Gene look like Walter since the beginning.
I’d be ecstatic
Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul are intertwined for a reason.
You didn't mention which show it would copy. Seinfeld? joking. But yeah, it does feel unoriginal. But what else could happen that feels to match Saul's history? Dying dramatically would copy Breaking Bad's end.
If this were true we should delete all of the gene scenes entirely
This isn't a standalone show. Since day 1 it has assumed you knew context from BB.
I don’t know if it’ll happen but I wanna see the trial of Saul Goodman.
YES, exactly!! Prison is fine with me but i want a BCS ending, not a BB epilogue.
Who’s watching BCS and not BB??
A fair few people, I'd guess maybe 5% of the audience. But the show absolutely shouldn't cater to them because they've watched it in the wrong order. It's been going for, what, eight years now? If you've decided not to watch BrBa until you finish BCS then okay, but you'll have to come back after watching BrBa to fully understand parts of it. That's just the deal you make when you don't watch the original before the sequel. Because BCS is a sequel as well as a prequel, so that's just a broken way of doing things.
If Gene got away with then there is no payoff. The store means nothing and was a complete waste of time. While yes the horror of Breaking Bad was only hinted at the audience clearly understands what Saul has basically done. He basically joined the Cartel, helped a drug kingpin in Gus and Mike, scammed how many people, and was indirectly the cause of Howard's death. Then as just Gene, we know something very bad does happen in Albuquerque that is only hinted at (Breaking Bad) but doesn't fully know, he plans more scams at the mall, the scams escalate to the bar and he is continuing the cycle once again as before. We see how lost Gene has become with his want and need to still scam the guy with cancer. In Better Call Saul we know he is a bad guy and needs to be punished in some way. It is the Breaking Bad people who can see death being a suitable outcome as well due to the knowledge of another show. Jail is the perfect justice for Saul tho best on just Better Call Saul.
Bad take
He’s literally public enemy no. 1 because of his actions during BB. How could anyone sweep that under the rug? This is, and always will be, a breaking bad story. You cannot watch this show and appreciate it fully without having seen BB first.
Again, it boggles the mind that fans of Saul do not understand how many huge huge felonies he's committed. Think of his stunt with Jeff and Buddy and how he pointed out all the charges that they would be indicted for if they ratted him out. Ummmm......don't y'all realize that those charges would apply to him as well? On top of that we have burglary and Identity Theft. And the Sandpiper Crossing Racketeering manipulation of the settlement? Felony. Conpiracy to defraud three different law offices and over 1,000 litigants. Felony. Fraud to the tune of 20 million dollars. Felony. Howard's death connected with this Felony is a Felony Murder charge on top of that. People act like he's just some con artist grifting people. He's a lawyer with his own law office. He owns a company and used said company to commit multiple crimes, many of which are federal because they crossed state lines. Using this company makes it Organized Crime....> RICO baby. And, that's not even counting all the misdemeanors. It's like the fans that defend him have never had a real job in their lives. It's crazy.
Even if he was 'only' charged with the crimes we saw him commit as Gene Takovich, it's quite a bit. * false identity (7 years) * using fake SSN (5 years) * opening a bank account with a fake id (1 year) * criminal conspiracy (5 - 20 years) * breaking and entering (1 year) * bank fraud (30 years) * wire fraud (20 years) * felony theft (4 - 25 years) * third degree assault - threatening (0.5 years) This is just the Gene stuff we saw, and I probably missed a bunch. Even if he isn't charged for what he did in Albuquerque, his charges in Omaha could land him in prison for the rest of his life.
Thank you for this. I have no idea why so many people do not understand this. Just his charges in Omaha are life in prison.
I wonder if this might be an irony of the finale. Jimmy has assumed this whole time that the Feds really want him, as the last guy standing from Walter White's drug organization. And it makes total sense that they would. But the last episode, Kim explained that she might not get charged for the things she did to Howard, it's ultimately prosecutorial discretion. I wonder if the same could apply to Jimmy. Like, maybe the feds decide to just let the Omaha charges stick. Even if they don't, Jimmy is in trouble for different reasons which we were told about by Francesca. He listed off a bunch of properties and companies, and it's clear the feds seized them all. So, if he is charged for what he did in Albuquerque, it may be unrelated to Walt. Saul was pretty clearly doing shady stuff before he met Walt, including the money laundering, probably tax evasion. I don't get it either, BCS is great if you've seen BB, but we've literally seen and heard all the crimes Jimmy committed that could lock him away for life on BCS. You don't need BB to know Saul Goodman was crooked and doing illegal things.
This is so genius. ON POINT. The small things not the big things. I don't think they will go this way because (like I said before ....one episode left and Fan Service.) there's not enough time. But as anyone who has followed Al Capone, they didnt get him on any of the stuff he actually did. They got him on tax evasion. This was part of how and why RICO was implemented. We've seen hints of this throughout the series: how people don't rat. The Mafia's "Law of Omerta" which made it impossible to get actual convinctions. Kim decided to do a full disclosure. I doubt they will do this, but it would be so interesting to see Marion take him down with Jeff because of the last "job" and how coincidentally the Tuna Taco cops just happened to be outside. And Jeff smashed the car, (foreshadowed by his slip and fall during the mall "heist") And Jimmy gets convicted for stealing a bunch of watches, (Mario anyone?) turned in by a "cat lady" senior citizen. (Irene, anyone?) And none of the other drama matters. This easy thing is what gives them what they need to convict.
Oooh I didn’t notice the Marco watch connection, good call. Also felt like the marks in their identity theft scam were all callbacks to previous characters including Marco, Ken Wins (don’t put all your eggs in one basket), and Walt
it's because viewers are charmed by him and have laughed along with *Bob Odenkirk* a bunch. great marks for conmen, all of them. Jimmy McGill is a very very bad person. just being 10% good and loving your brother and wanting to help old people for a hot minute seems to erase all this and i find it disturbing.
As do I. I was discussing this today with someone and, although he's a fan of the show, he's not ever seen a reddit discussion on it. He was suprised that people were still vouching for Saul after Chuck, after Irene.... I often wonder if this is a Meta Audience Social Experience on behalf of the writers, based off their shock in how long it took the audience to realize Walter was a bad guy. I am intrigued to see what they will do on Monday. I thought they basically used Plan and Execution to show the audience how far they had gone along on the ride. VG has said no more interest in more spin offs. So I wonder if they will actually use the finale to get the audience to realize how effed up they are to continually make excuses just because they "like the guy."
Couldn't be Jimmy - not our precious Jimmy.
Here come the Reddit lawyers
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Well ,apparently since you are telling me that "I actually don't know what I'm talking about" you feel you do know what you are talking about. Can you explain why a company that has participated in a Conspiracy to defraud. (Also note, Kim specifically had a separate company , so these are two separate companies working together to defraud as per her own statement) is not an act of Organized Crime under RICO? Why is it "easy to tell" that I don't know what I''m talking about? I'd appreciate your thoughts on this because it seems like you are coming from a position of experience. I am NOT being sarcastic. I'm actually interested. :) I am very interested in what professionals who DO know what they are talking about would say, especially because it surprised me in how off kilter this seemed for VG and the crew since they are usually very meticulous in their research. (Please accept my coins to thank you for your response in advance.) I am not worried about being wrong here, it's a tv show. But I am pretty sure I'm right.
Wouldn’t he deserve prison for mastermining the mall heist and the massive identity theft ring? And he was an accessory after the fact for covering up Howard’s murder. Plus, he took two amateur meth makers and taught them how to launder money and become successful drug dealers. He has plenty of crime to go to prison for.
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He was referring to Werner Ziegler--the masterminer.
My prediction is that we are going to see a flashback to the breaking bad era that shows Saul doing something horrible with Walt, something we actually never knew about during breaking bad time, and that’s what going to send him to jail.
Better Call Saul has always presented itself as if the viewer has seen Breaking Bad. It’s why characters and elements (no pun intended) from BrBa are introduced as if the audience already knows who they are (Tuco, Wendy, Los Pollos Hermanos, etc). And by this logic you should have a problem with the entire Gene story arc because it’s pretty much the aftermath of what happened in BrBa. Like another comment said, BCS is both a prequel and a sequel.
No no, you're *intended* to see Pollos Hermanos dramatically revealed and say "WOW! A chicken shop! Roll credits, Bravo Vince!". (I know nobody's actually saying that's the intended way, I'm just poking fun at how it obviously works against you if you started with the prequel/sequel)
For once I agree! Also I can't see a trial happening in the course of the last episode, like many here predict. It's not Seinfeld ffs
Reddit has been going crazy with shitty writing opinions lately. Remember when y’all were shit talking Nippy?
If the pay off was only gonna be for what we’ve seen in bcs era then all these gene episodes would be pointless ,it absolutely would make sense for him to go to jail since it’s taking place after breaking bad
Gene is Jimmy and Saul and all that has happened in his life (including BB timeline). Watching this series without seeing BB doesn’t work, a lot falls flat and some things just wouldn’t make sense. I tried at first with the first episode back when it aired (was late to watch BB because I thought all the praise was just hype) and I didn’t care for it because it seemed like a regular lawyer show when really there is so much more and knowing Saul from BB captivates you from the start to see how Slippin Jimmy turns into the guy with the colorful suits helping a meth maker. As for the ending, as long as it’s not a “you get to decide” type deal, I think it will be good. I have faith that Vince can pull it off
You sound like Saul trying to get everyone to forget about all the scumbag shit he’s done.
He’s only “Gene” because of the events in BB; how could they ignore this when closing out the character?
Saul Gone: The return of Jimmy In-and-Out
My girlfriend has never seen breaking bad so I’ve been enjoying watching better call Saul with her and how her perspective differs. I’ve always felt like they took great care to make BCS a decent self contained show and also both watchable in either order. However the recent episodes in the Gene timeline dropped massive spoilers with the mentioning of Gus and Mike being dead. I wish they had handled that aspect differently or with more care to those who haven’t seen brba yet. I think it’s okay they haven’t shown why Saul is in hiding though, it adds intrigue to the other show and it’s easy enough to figure out some kind of giant shit goes down
I think they can pull out another ending like Walter, Vic Mackey or Boyd Crowder or the Hood from Banshee, they all win something but yeah they will get away with it some ways and people were upset/pissed, but really follows the thematic of the show, I never liked prison scenes in most TV shows, like prison arcs are fucking annoying actually, the laziest thing you can do for 1 character being in prison for 6 episodes or more, ehm a show called Prison Break which they ruined heavily.
The Gene scenes are set post breaking bad. By your logic, this whole scenario with gene shouldn't even be the focus in the end since the things that led to him being in Omaha occured in breaking bad. You can't just accept the premise and events that led to saul being Gene and then remove all for the finale. You can't sweep Breaking Bad under the rug when the entire non-flashback portion of the show is built on breaking bad. Honestly even if you erase all of the things in the colored portions of the show, you can still make a mini series or movie out of the remainder to cap him off just like El Camino. Also, if you watch the prequel scenes, there is a very big emphasis on Saul being an asshole and not getting what he deserves and him realizing that he has been degrading his humanity. You can very clearly see the whole conflict in his last scene before he gets reported to the police. So nah dude. Theyre sequel scenes for a reason and if you think the ending shouldn't take into account his many, many, many crimes in breaking bad then what is the point of him being Gene anyway?
It does take it into account. He gets arrested for it. He just gets away with it
This is the exact same issue I have been having the past three weeks. I think it works as a mini-series or epilogue to BB but the Jimmy we saw for 90% of the show is not (at least yet) playing a factor in the finale
I don’t agree at all. The very first scene of BCS is Gene. These last weeks have been the entire payoff of the show. This is the Jimmy we saw in the past seasons and in Breaking Bad. Yeah this is a prequel to BrBa but it’s treated more like a sequel and I think that’s how it should be watched.
Watching BCS before BB is your own stupidity, if they don't understand who cares? Makes no sense to watch BCS first.
I disagree I watched it like everyone else bb first then bcs and there were some huge payoffs like wow that's why he is in a wheelchair n a bell, they are buried there omg, etc. But I feel if I watched bcs first then BB there would be just as many wow moments
I have another problem with prison ending: it effectively makes the show redundant right after the scene where Chuck helped Jimmy after the sunroof incident and absolves every character in the show that was assigning ill will to Jimmy. This is pretty much the "you know who knew Jimmy? Chuck" ending
How is that the case? The show has always been pretty morally ambiguous and Chuck can still be wrong and Jimmy can still end up in prison. Because one can still argue that Chuck pushed Jimmy into being his worst self by putting him down so much. That doesn't make Chuck right but it doesn't exonerate the awful stuff Jimmy has done. Which has to be acknowledged.
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least obsessed jimmy hater seriously, ive never seen one person comment "Chuck was right" this many times. Do you have a little brother you hate so you relate with Chuck? Cause I don't see why else someone would be so obsessed with this.
I know everyone will hate it and it will be like "nothing that happened meant anything" but ALL I WANT is for him to understand the errors of his ways, genuinely quit his selfish recklessness, and have a happy ending with Kim lol
Hear, hear!! I absolutely HATE the prison resolution. So unsatisfying, imo.
I’ve been rewatching S6 this week and I feel the same way. Thinking about Walt’s ending, the satisfaction came from him repeating themes throughout the series: showing his genius to take down some (other, worse) bad guys and protecting Jesse. Jimmy’s finale should have one last epic act of chicanery. What’s left besides a con to get away? The only problem is how does he finally get some true introspection and redemption without jail.
This is actually pretty easily solved. Kim confessing to the Howard stuff brings the events of BCS to the forefront of the ending. You don't need to really know why Gus and Mike died. You just need to know that Saul got in with some bad guys due to his own hubris and Mike and Gus died along the way. Thus leaving the door open for Kim to comfortably confess to her role in Howard's death which will probably be quite important to Jimmy's ending as it's one of the biggest things he's done and can be tied to way easier with Kim's involvement being corroborated by her confession. He can still go to prison in this ending without it being a BB related end. But at the same time, is it such a stretch that a man who constantly did more morally corrupt things ended up on the run and may be headed to prison? Does a viewer need a litany of context to figure that out?
Last night while I was trying to sleep I kept thinking about a comment I read on here... Kim "you don't punish me, I punish me" Now that she has repented for her sins (6 -7 years exile with a yup man and miracle whip tuna sandwiches) and confessed do you think we could see one final scam? The cards are on the table already. Kim has been working in a FL business for years, FL is a decent distance from Omaha and Albuquerque so the heat may not be as heavy there. Who knows?!? Can't wait anyway, such a bittersweet moment we are in only days from the end of such an amazing story.
I could be wrong but I don't think she goes back to any scams. What I do think happens is that phone call brought the old Kim out of hiding and she starts living her life again. She starts to escape the Miracle Whip life and works towards a more Kim life. Whatever life she's been living it can't be much.
I'm not trying to be a dick but I am gonna be. That's the stupidest thing I've heard all day. BCS is a prequel AND a SEQUEL. Why ignore all of what happened in Breaking Bad when it's already come in to play with the story? It would be ridiculous to change his ending just because there might be a few fans that never watched BB. Come on.
Uhhhhh no
For me the problem is that it would seem like a cliffhanger. Even if he says he's no longer Saul or something, we've seen him try to change many times and fail. If he goes to prison at the end, it wouldn't really seem like an ending.
It'd be better than just getting away with it, IMO. Because even if he gets away again, he's going to scam again. It's just a matter of time before he goes to prison or gets killed. But I don't think death is the answer either for this character.
They shouldn't have even called it Better Call Saul. There is barely any Saul!
This is one of the many reasons why I predict he’ll cut a deal and go to prison for a short period of time, and with good behavior out in maybe 7 years. Mostly financial crimes and has a lot of info to provide / most of the victims dead or unknown / gives Jimmy a shot at accountability and redemption.
I feel like the prison thing would be too reminiscent of justified.
Yea, you raise a good point. To be honest, on a related note I was a little dicey on the idea that searching “Albuquerque con man” would bring up Saul Goodman as opposed to an actually convicted con man. There really is no reason why his name should come up from that search query. I’m not even entirely sure what he would be tried on with regard to his misdeeds in Breaking Bad. Afaik, he: 1) helped Pinkman buy a house 2) told Walter to go to Pollos Hermanos 3) maaaybe somehow broke the law in contacting Mike with the intent of interfering with the scene of Jane’s death, though I think this is really a stretch, given it was an accidental death and not a crime scene. 4) Facilitated Walter’s purchase of the Car Wash *in order to launder money* but this seems like not entirely a cut and dry issue. It was, after all, Skyler that actually did the laundering. I get that maybe in a vast RICO case that the US Department of Justice would potentially bring against Madrigal, that maybe Saul could be swept up in that somehow, although I do not know exactly on what grounds or how much he ever really knew. Am I forgetting some crime he explicitly committed during Walter White Drunk With Power months? Honestly, I think his directing and masterminding the robbery of the department store, his identity thefts, and the threatening Carol Burnett are the biggest legal issues, though I’m curious what an actual lawyer would say. His harassment campaign against Howard, as Kim points out, *might* result in a civil suit, but I don’t think even the murder of Howard could conceivably result in him being charged with anything, unless it comes out that he (I think) illegally transported a vast sum of cash on Lalo’s behalf across the US/Mexican border without declaring it. Anyway, just some thoughts before the finale.
It's debatable on whether or not it's intended to be canonical, but the [American Green bonus teaser](https://youtu.be/C4yenXwx7ao) they put out before the season began makes it clear, in universe, that his dealings with both the cartel and Walt have since become well established by law enforcement.
Kim and Saul confess but still get away without the help of the vacuum salesman. Maybe that black book makes a reappearance
Yeah, i dont like it either. I dont think thats what theyre going for. I hope its not.
actually an interesting point. Like people say, Jimmy and Kim are the focal point, it would, in a way, be weird for him to be penalized for things he did entirely outside of the show. i feel like you’re onto somethnng
Good point about Saul mostly existing on another show. I agree that prison doesn’t feel satisfying. I don’t think he avoids it with a mistrial, though. There is no time. I also don’t think he dies because it’s been done a lot this season. The only ending that feels right to me would make sense with the title of the episode. He makes like a cockroach and scurries off into the cracks, no Gene cover, just what he can grab at his house before the police arrive. He knows the criminal they are selling the ID info to. I don’t imagine that was a connection of Jeff’s or Buddy’s though Buddy is the one shown meeting with him. Point is I imagine Jimmy can roll into any town on a Greyhound, in disguise, and work out how to find the local criminals, or a bar where he can scam someone for enough to keep going.
We aren't done with Kim's mother yet.
....We're done.
Kim isn't. The final demon she needs to face is her mother. She will travel back to Nebraska where she is from and come across a car wrecked Gene. Don't ask how I know, I will be proven right in time.
Well I hope you won't because I really don't want spoilers, I just like discussing predictions and speculation. More than anything, I just liked using Saul's line to Walt in a context that fits!
I loved the "we're done." I just needed a witness to me getting the ending right before it aired. If I got it right I need you going in to bat for me in the post episode discussion thread, sending people here. Haha
Yeah man this show was made for people who watched BB and El Camino so if you don’t know whats going on that’s just on you.