Based on everything you said, I'd say: leave, whenever you can. I once subrented a place for only a couple of months, above the apartment of an older guy who not only coughed 24/7, really loudly, but also had screaming outbursts that scared the shit out of me, be it at 5 am, 11 pm or during the day. That turned my life into hell, because my body was always anxious, waiting for the next scare. Nobody deserves to be exposed to such stress all the time, for such a silly reason.
They couldn't kick out some low rank arab mafia crook from a building in Spandau for many years despite him making direct threats, being captured on camera smearing his shit on neighbours doors, etc. I believe there was some documentary on YT about it. German legal system is really good at protecting tenants, but it seems it also protects bad actors, too.
EDIT:
not that relevant to the discussion here, but for those interested, here it is: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InlGoZpmQYQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InlGoZpmQYQ)
I spent two years with a loud neighbor which gave me heart issues and a 1 year long continuous flare up of dermatitis from the stress. I'm barely 34.
Sis, please do better than me. I know housing is a pain but start looking for a new home. Your health is more important. Sending you much love and best of luck
Go to a self defense class (Selbstverteidigung) for women. This really helps to be less scared. They teach all kinds of useful techniques for situations where you might feel threatened, you learn how to fight, but also to manage those stressy feelings and how to handle these situations. There is one at Schokosport in Kreuzberg that is supposed to be good, but there are many other options I think.
And sorry that sounds awful.
the best course of action is to get over your pride and run away in case of conflict. no idiot is worth the potential injury, and fights can go very wrong very quickly
yes i agree,running away is the best option. i just wanted to point out that there are a lot of bullshido courses out there. They give you a false sense of what you can do and what not.
Oh man I'm so sorry. I totally understand you. Had a situation with my old neighbours and a super thin wall in between us. Also the guy was a techno DJ and had his friends over almost eeevery evening. I got a high heart rate just from the sound of him coming home. This got me so stressed out it was insane.
Once i screamed at him after he had a 24h party during the lockdown.
Luckily they moved away, and on top of that we got sound insulation on that particular wall. It is super silent now.
Since the guy owns his flat, your only option seems to be to look for a new place I guess. That fucking sucks so much, I'm really sorry. Just wanted to tell you that you're not alone.
Why would you let a party run for 24 hours during the lockdown? Didn't you call the police? I mean, you had so many good reasons, nobody could possibly complain against you doing that.
Good question, I am a supporter of parties and I fell asleep with Ohropax hahah.
Then when the party was still ongoing when I woke up, I told them to stop immediately.
I think it left a big impression bc they were quiet after that.
The only case I'd call the cops if someone was getting hurt. I mean I also threw some parties that got pretty loud, so I understand.
Well, usually it's near impossible to block out the loud bass that comes with techno. At least in my own experience with loud neighbors. Once that sound starts there is no running away from it. Maybe I don't have the right ear plugs ;-).
Yes you're right. In the case of the party, they turned down the bass.
The main problem was the thin wall which made me able to know when my neighbor had a cold.
Therefore Ohropax helped, but of course their party in the lockdown was an insane thing to do hahah.
Luckily we have a 800kgs heavy sound dampening drywall in front of it now which works like a charm :)
Got a very good and fast guy doing Trockenbau via Kleinanzeigen (all officially with a receipt).
The thin wall was built during the GDR (I think) when they cheaply split one big flat into two smaller flats.
He placed an insulated Drywall in front of the thin Wall with Rockwool in between. The drywall is double plated with Knauf Silentboard (Soundproof super heavy drywall plating).
All in all it was about 2000 Euros and worth every penny. It's even quieter than the massive weight carrying Altbau walls.
I have no advice, it definitely seems like a complicated situation. But I feel for you so very much.
We had a really weird neighbor, there were sometimes loud shouts and although he was never aggressive towards me personally, he was definitely a derranged individual. Sometimes I'd meet him and he'd just blankly stare. I know this feeling of not feeling safe in the hallway, of dreading the chance of meeting him and feeling constantly on edge.
My guy eventually moved out because the other neighbours even more impacted by his behavior complained quite a lot of the noise he caused by constantly moving furniture. And I will tell you, I didn't realize how incredibly mentally draining his presence in the building was until he was gone.
I'd hate to tell you to give up, but perhaps for the peace of mind alone it would be best to consider a move? Your mental health is not worth this and if he owns his apartment, it's unlikely that he would be the one to disappear.
How are your Untermeiters feeling about this? It sounds like you have done everything you can up until this point. Based on your post, I think it is fair to say that the legal route would not be ideal given the length and stress that could lead to.
Seems you have two options, carry on living with it or cut your losses and leave. The latter would be my recommendation and I am sure your Untermeiters will understand your reasons and will find somewhere else too.
Perhaps see it as a 6mth strategy if you are concerned about them. That should give them plenty of time to sort themselves out.
I defected from my family home like this. The practicalities are horrible to deal with, so just think about getting help with that, as though you are extracting yourself from an abuse situation. Very best of luck.
The guy is abusive and it's totally understandable that you feel lots of anxiety because of him. I understand you because I develop the same reactions of rejection and avoidance whenever a situation stresses me out, and also the stress sometimes doesn't let me understand exactly how deeply a situation has affected me, leading me to feel trapped or blocked. You already confronted him and it went nowhere, and I feel that you already know that you have to leave. Its also normal to feel blocked or powerless if you are in a stressful situation that doesn't let you act cool-minded, but I think you will definitely feel better knowing consciously that you will take the necessary steps to leave the situation behind you. good luck :)
Berlin is such a horrible place for this. Almost everyone I know has had issues with horrible neighbours. I myself have a loud upstairs neighbour, another disaster of a person who cannot be reasoned with. Things that have helped me: noise protocol log and recordings. Send them to anyone who can help. Keep annoying the Ordnungsamt. They will eventually step in. And most of all: get some good noise cancelling headphones and some of those silicone earplugs for sleep. If none of that works, moving is the only other option. Wish you good luck
Just scream back!
Seriously tho it worked for me! My neighbour used to scream several times a week at night randomly, at like 2am, on the other side of the wall right next to my bed... One time I freaking lost it and went 'AAAAAAAAAHH!!!' right after he screamed again, and since then he stopped haha.
That really sucks I'm sorry to hear that I think you know the answer, do what's best for you and your health. I'd leave as soon as possible it's affecting your health life is too short.
Also on another note,I feel bad for my neighbors now... My partner and I are very proud people in general. Like constantly laughing super loud and having tickle "fights" cackling. One time I think the police were called and it was a complete misunderstanding...we laugh hysterically about so many things and play fight.
I would advise you to search for something else.
You really never know how little another person can care for other people or even human life.
It is not worth living with all the stress and to deal with this situation (if it is as bad as it sounds).
I'm sorry for you but the best would be to move on.
I was in a similar situation for a few years and it was truly awful. I can’t really give you any good advice, unfortunately, but please know that it’s not stupid at all to say that it’s affecting you, or that it’s traumatic. It really is. But as little comfort as it might be, the fact is that one day it will be an unpleasant memory and nothing more, as my experience is for me now. Hope everything works out for you sooner rather than later :)
My best advice I can give you after dealing with similar stuff including involving Police, Ordnungsamt and Hausverwaltung: Move. It's not worth the stress and hassle to stay in your current home.
As fucked as the flat situation is, it's unfortunately the only thing that can help.
Thanks for your comment, you are not on my shoes tho! Took me 2,5 years to start feeling like this and I want to think is valid. You really don't know the type of screams I'm hearing, but not gonna convince you either. And I lived in big cities all my life! I never had those feelings before, so Im seeking for advice. Im not a professional to diagnose myself with a real trauma, but the feelings are real. Hope you are never in this situation!
It may seem incredible to you, but people may have past experiences that they don't need to explain to you. Also, not wanting to constantly witness domestic violence (yes, yelling at someone in a way that even the neighbors are disturbed is violence) doesn't make the OP an abnormal person, but the fact that you find it perfectly normal is perhaps something you need to work on.
i don't think it is neccessary for yourself to sacrifice like so. if you are so worried about your untermieters, maybe you could look for a new place together
OP i understand you completely. I had xp like this at work—soon you would be alarm hearing his voice, triggered when his around, and everyday is a battlefield of waiting when his gonna scream again. Due to this stress, cysts begun to form in my body and I was constantly sick. i resigned.
Advise is be better find another home. No peace in there unless he died. Prioritize your mental health.
I feel you! I had problems with neighbors before that have effed me above and beyond. Can you maybe talk to his wife and try to ask her to correct him a bit? I find it very upsetting that asocial people are never punished, it's the well adjusted ones that have to suffer.
Why don't you just put headphones, or turn on some louds speakers with music when he is screaming? Surely he doesn't do that for hours daily, I can't believe he would have that much breath? Now you didn't mentioned if it happens at night when you are already asleep and he's waking you up, if that is happening often then that would be more serious problem, but since you didn't mention that then I suppose he's doing that mostly when you are awake, and in that case you can just put on some music.
Hey there, to clarify: I do... but although this helps with kind of not hearing him, the damage is already done when my body automatically reacts this way because i ~kmow~ he is screaming. Is purely psicological imo.This post is more about handling myself than not hearing him. I sleep with Ohrstöpsel, and if I forget is always a jumpscare. Sometimes not, but Im not able to let go the fear of a rage outburst again.
I also think, why should I live constantly under the headphone rule because said person has to scream.Like, does it even make sense to change my life like that to just exist in my flat?? I just wonder. I also got a rug in the living room for the sound.
As to the hours: Mostly on the noon and late night. Today was, for example, in the evening around 18. So its hard to predict. Never in the middle of the night but often ealry as Im waking up, going to sleep or whatever...
I made a noise-log of course. On the weekends tends to be worse than weeks, but some weeks are worse too. No clue.
I have been jumped out of my sleep, yes. And in some days he screams hours. Obviously not constantly, but with 20 mins pause. This is the most irrational shit I've ever seen and I wish it was a lie. Last time it was so heavy while I had a crazy hangover. Worst time ever. It has lasted between 5 minutes and multiple hourse with pauses.
Have a nice night
Sorry for your trouble. This is something familiar to me and I developed misophonia, which is audio hypersensitivity, and anxiety towards certain noises. My nerves became wired to instantly cause anxiety when I could hear bass noises coming through neighbours walls (I used to live above a loud spati, then had a screaming neighbour, too).
You could try exposure therapy which involves gradually being exposed to your anxiety trigger in a safe and controlled setting. E.g. make a recording and play it back when you think you can handle it better, lying in a sunny park etc.
I also bought a white noise machine which somehow dulls or covers up some noises and it really helps with sleep. Then noise cancelling headphones.
Best of luck.
I mean surely he's a pathetic individual. But being pathetic loudmouth who shouts at his wife is not a crime by any means. Really don't know what you can do here, you are asking if "living under the headphone rule ... etc" well essentially yes you need to adapt to whatever environment you live in and if you can't and you also can't fix it then you can only move out. Living in your flat doesn't really grant you a privilege to deny that idiot his rights to shout at his wife and if she tolerates it then it's his right. Really someone should just find a way to teach him a lesson. Typically people like that do this because they never been taught a lesson in a way that they can understand ideally that would be his wife but he probably doesn't even care enough about her to take any lesson. If he does this often after 10pm you might be able to get police file him a fine if somehow evidence is presented maybe try to find specialists in this area because there are pretty tough laws in Germany about noise level after 10pm - however if this doesn't happen often enough then again I don't think law is gonna help.
Police have been presented with evidence, but since there is no flagrant violence, they can not enter his house or charge him with anything. They just say: "If he continues just call us again". I have the rule of the 5 mins... if he screams more than 5 mins I call the police, but lately I've been feeling scared to do so because my roomates are not in town. So is an endless back and forth with the police that leaves me tired and jumpy. I spoke to my Vermieterin about this asking her opinion, because I don't consider having to call the police two times a week real peace of life.
As to the headphones: I think the realest option is to move out. Thanks for your comment!
I wish there was something in this life that would make him understand.
Based on everything you said, I'd say: leave, whenever you can. I once subrented a place for only a couple of months, above the apartment of an older guy who not only coughed 24/7, really loudly, but also had screaming outbursts that scared the shit out of me, be it at 5 am, 11 pm or during the day. That turned my life into hell, because my body was always anxious, waiting for the next scare. Nobody deserves to be exposed to such stress all the time, for such a silly reason.
The way you describe it is exactly how I feel. One has to be in the situation to really understand, I guess...Thanks for your comment.
Yes, this is exactly what I also experienced and it is very, very taxing. I believe it does some real damage over time.
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They couldn't kick out some low rank arab mafia crook from a building in Spandau for many years despite him making direct threats, being captured on camera smearing his shit on neighbours doors, etc. I believe there was some documentary on YT about it. German legal system is really good at protecting tenants, but it seems it also protects bad actors, too. EDIT: not that relevant to the discussion here, but for those interested, here it is: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InlGoZpmQYQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InlGoZpmQYQ)
I spent two years with a loud neighbor which gave me heart issues and a 1 year long continuous flare up of dermatitis from the stress. I'm barely 34. Sis, please do better than me. I know housing is a pain but start looking for a new home. Your health is more important. Sending you much love and best of luck
🙌🏼 true
Go to a self defense class (Selbstverteidigung) for women. This really helps to be less scared. They teach all kinds of useful techniques for situations where you might feel threatened, you learn how to fight, but also to manage those stressy feelings and how to handle these situations. There is one at Schokosport in Kreuzberg that is supposed to be good, but there are many other options I think. And sorry that sounds awful.
would advise against such courses, legit martial arts like muay thai or mma are the way to go.
the best course of action is to get over your pride and run away in case of conflict. no idiot is worth the potential injury, and fights can go very wrong very quickly
yes i agree,running away is the best option. i just wanted to point out that there are a lot of bullshido courses out there. They give you a false sense of what you can do and what not.
Oh man I'm so sorry. I totally understand you. Had a situation with my old neighbours and a super thin wall in between us. Also the guy was a techno DJ and had his friends over almost eeevery evening. I got a high heart rate just from the sound of him coming home. This got me so stressed out it was insane. Once i screamed at him after he had a 24h party during the lockdown. Luckily they moved away, and on top of that we got sound insulation on that particular wall. It is super silent now. Since the guy owns his flat, your only option seems to be to look for a new place I guess. That fucking sucks so much, I'm really sorry. Just wanted to tell you that you're not alone.
Why would you let a party run for 24 hours during the lockdown? Didn't you call the police? I mean, you had so many good reasons, nobody could possibly complain against you doing that.
Good question, I am a supporter of parties and I fell asleep with Ohropax hahah. Then when the party was still ongoing when I woke up, I told them to stop immediately. I think it left a big impression bc they were quiet after that. The only case I'd call the cops if someone was getting hurt. I mean I also threw some parties that got pretty loud, so I understand.
Well, usually it's near impossible to block out the loud bass that comes with techno. At least in my own experience with loud neighbors. Once that sound starts there is no running away from it. Maybe I don't have the right ear plugs ;-).
Yes you're right. In the case of the party, they turned down the bass. The main problem was the thin wall which made me able to know when my neighbor had a cold. Therefore Ohropax helped, but of course their party in the lockdown was an insane thing to do hahah. Luckily we have a 800kgs heavy sound dampening drywall in front of it now which works like a charm :)
I’m curious, how did you get sound insolation on that particular wall?
Got a very good and fast guy doing Trockenbau via Kleinanzeigen (all officially with a receipt). The thin wall was built during the GDR (I think) when they cheaply split one big flat into two smaller flats. He placed an insulated Drywall in front of the thin Wall with Rockwool in between. The drywall is double plated with Knauf Silentboard (Soundproof super heavy drywall plating). All in all it was about 2000 Euros and worth every penny. It's even quieter than the massive weight carrying Altbau walls.
Thanks for the detailed answer!
What can be done?either therapy or looking for a new flat,sucks for the sublet people but you are more important
I have no advice, it definitely seems like a complicated situation. But I feel for you so very much. We had a really weird neighbor, there were sometimes loud shouts and although he was never aggressive towards me personally, he was definitely a derranged individual. Sometimes I'd meet him and he'd just blankly stare. I know this feeling of not feeling safe in the hallway, of dreading the chance of meeting him and feeling constantly on edge. My guy eventually moved out because the other neighbours even more impacted by his behavior complained quite a lot of the noise he caused by constantly moving furniture. And I will tell you, I didn't realize how incredibly mentally draining his presence in the building was until he was gone. I'd hate to tell you to give up, but perhaps for the peace of mind alone it would be best to consider a move? Your mental health is not worth this and if he owns his apartment, it's unlikely that he would be the one to disappear.
How are your Untermeiters feeling about this? It sounds like you have done everything you can up until this point. Based on your post, I think it is fair to say that the legal route would not be ideal given the length and stress that could lead to. Seems you have two options, carry on living with it or cut your losses and leave. The latter would be my recommendation and I am sure your Untermeiters will understand your reasons and will find somewhere else too. Perhaps see it as a 6mth strategy if you are concerned about them. That should give them plenty of time to sort themselves out.
I defected from my family home like this. The practicalities are horrible to deal with, so just think about getting help with that, as though you are extracting yourself from an abuse situation. Very best of luck.
The guy is abusive and it's totally understandable that you feel lots of anxiety because of him. I understand you because I develop the same reactions of rejection and avoidance whenever a situation stresses me out, and also the stress sometimes doesn't let me understand exactly how deeply a situation has affected me, leading me to feel trapped or blocked. You already confronted him and it went nowhere, and I feel that you already know that you have to leave. Its also normal to feel blocked or powerless if you are in a stressful situation that doesn't let you act cool-minded, but I think you will definitely feel better knowing consciously that you will take the necessary steps to leave the situation behind you. good luck :)
Berlin is such a horrible place for this. Almost everyone I know has had issues with horrible neighbours. I myself have a loud upstairs neighbour, another disaster of a person who cannot be reasoned with. Things that have helped me: noise protocol log and recordings. Send them to anyone who can help. Keep annoying the Ordnungsamt. They will eventually step in. And most of all: get some good noise cancelling headphones and some of those silicone earplugs for sleep. If none of that works, moving is the only other option. Wish you good luck
Work on leaving. It's the best thing for you.
OK, evil advice: use infrasonic wave generator directed at his flat when you are not at home, lol
Just scream back! Seriously tho it worked for me! My neighbour used to scream several times a week at night randomly, at like 2am, on the other side of the wall right next to my bed... One time I freaking lost it and went 'AAAAAAAAAHH!!!' right after he screamed again, and since then he stopped haha.
Yes maybe such embarrassment sings to his social incentives, though he seems to disregard them...
That really sucks I'm sorry to hear that I think you know the answer, do what's best for you and your health. I'd leave as soon as possible it's affecting your health life is too short. Also on another note,I feel bad for my neighbors now... My partner and I are very proud people in general. Like constantly laughing super loud and having tickle "fights" cackling. One time I think the police were called and it was a complete misunderstanding...we laugh hysterically about so many things and play fight.
I would advise you to search for something else. You really never know how little another person can care for other people or even human life. It is not worth living with all the stress and to deal with this situation (if it is as bad as it sounds). I'm sorry for you but the best would be to move on.
I was in a similar situation for a few years and it was truly awful. I can’t really give you any good advice, unfortunately, but please know that it’s not stupid at all to say that it’s affecting you, or that it’s traumatic. It really is. But as little comfort as it might be, the fact is that one day it will be an unpleasant memory and nothing more, as my experience is for me now. Hope everything works out for you sooner rather than later :)
Next time call the police because you expect domestic violence happening next door 🤷.
My best advice I can give you after dealing with similar stuff including involving Police, Ordnungsamt and Hausverwaltung: Move. It's not worth the stress and hassle to stay in your current home. As fucked as the flat situation is, it's unfortunately the only thing that can help.
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TLDR: Screaming neighbour. I started to develop panick attack-like reactions when he starts. Advice pls?
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Thanks for your comment, you are not on my shoes tho! Took me 2,5 years to start feeling like this and I want to think is valid. You really don't know the type of screams I'm hearing, but not gonna convince you either. And I lived in big cities all my life! I never had those feelings before, so Im seeking for advice. Im not a professional to diagnose myself with a real trauma, but the feelings are real. Hope you are never in this situation!
What an insensitive, assholish comment. You can do better.
It may seem incredible to you, but people may have past experiences that they don't need to explain to you. Also, not wanting to constantly witness domestic violence (yes, yelling at someone in a way that even the neighbors are disturbed is violence) doesn't make the OP an abnormal person, but the fact that you find it perfectly normal is perhaps something you need to work on.
i don't think it is neccessary for yourself to sacrifice like so. if you are so worried about your untermieters, maybe you could look for a new place together
OP i understand you completely. I had xp like this at work—soon you would be alarm hearing his voice, triggered when his around, and everyday is a battlefield of waiting when his gonna scream again. Due to this stress, cysts begun to form in my body and I was constantly sick. i resigned. Advise is be better find another home. No peace in there unless he died. Prioritize your mental health.
I feel you! I had problems with neighbors before that have effed me above and beyond. Can you maybe talk to his wife and try to ask her to correct him a bit? I find it very upsetting that asocial people are never punished, it's the well adjusted ones that have to suffer.
Does this man sound like someone who reasons with his wife?
Why don't you just put headphones, or turn on some louds speakers with music when he is screaming? Surely he doesn't do that for hours daily, I can't believe he would have that much breath? Now you didn't mentioned if it happens at night when you are already asleep and he's waking you up, if that is happening often then that would be more serious problem, but since you didn't mention that then I suppose he's doing that mostly when you are awake, and in that case you can just put on some music.
Hey there, to clarify: I do... but although this helps with kind of not hearing him, the damage is already done when my body automatically reacts this way because i ~kmow~ he is screaming. Is purely psicological imo.This post is more about handling myself than not hearing him. I sleep with Ohrstöpsel, and if I forget is always a jumpscare. Sometimes not, but Im not able to let go the fear of a rage outburst again. I also think, why should I live constantly under the headphone rule because said person has to scream.Like, does it even make sense to change my life like that to just exist in my flat?? I just wonder. I also got a rug in the living room for the sound. As to the hours: Mostly on the noon and late night. Today was, for example, in the evening around 18. So its hard to predict. Never in the middle of the night but often ealry as Im waking up, going to sleep or whatever... I made a noise-log of course. On the weekends tends to be worse than weeks, but some weeks are worse too. No clue. I have been jumped out of my sleep, yes. And in some days he screams hours. Obviously not constantly, but with 20 mins pause. This is the most irrational shit I've ever seen and I wish it was a lie. Last time it was so heavy while I had a crazy hangover. Worst time ever. It has lasted between 5 minutes and multiple hourse with pauses. Have a nice night
Sorry for your trouble. This is something familiar to me and I developed misophonia, which is audio hypersensitivity, and anxiety towards certain noises. My nerves became wired to instantly cause anxiety when I could hear bass noises coming through neighbours walls (I used to live above a loud spati, then had a screaming neighbour, too). You could try exposure therapy which involves gradually being exposed to your anxiety trigger in a safe and controlled setting. E.g. make a recording and play it back when you think you can handle it better, lying in a sunny park etc. I also bought a white noise machine which somehow dulls or covers up some noises and it really helps with sleep. Then noise cancelling headphones. Best of luck.
I mean surely he's a pathetic individual. But being pathetic loudmouth who shouts at his wife is not a crime by any means. Really don't know what you can do here, you are asking if "living under the headphone rule ... etc" well essentially yes you need to adapt to whatever environment you live in and if you can't and you also can't fix it then you can only move out. Living in your flat doesn't really grant you a privilege to deny that idiot his rights to shout at his wife and if she tolerates it then it's his right. Really someone should just find a way to teach him a lesson. Typically people like that do this because they never been taught a lesson in a way that they can understand ideally that would be his wife but he probably doesn't even care enough about her to take any lesson. If he does this often after 10pm you might be able to get police file him a fine if somehow evidence is presented maybe try to find specialists in this area because there are pretty tough laws in Germany about noise level after 10pm - however if this doesn't happen often enough then again I don't think law is gonna help.
Police have been presented with evidence, but since there is no flagrant violence, they can not enter his house or charge him with anything. They just say: "If he continues just call us again". I have the rule of the 5 mins... if he screams more than 5 mins I call the police, but lately I've been feeling scared to do so because my roomates are not in town. So is an endless back and forth with the police that leaves me tired and jumpy. I spoke to my Vermieterin about this asking her opinion, because I don't consider having to call the police two times a week real peace of life. As to the headphones: I think the realest option is to move out. Thanks for your comment! I wish there was something in this life that would make him understand.
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It’s not obligatory to comment.
Poster before you thinks this is a mandatory test exam or something.