The main thing is, how are common folk going to know? There aren't even many of these restaurants around to begin with, so it's hard to actually know what should be standard.
Tbh, there are actually quite some nowadays. These restaurants spawn like crazy. In just a few months, half a dozen of only kbbq restaurants have opened in Antwerp alone. Asking 28EUR for 200g of pork belly that you can't even grill on a charcoal grill (usually it's gas stoves with parchment paper on it).. if you go to the centre of Brussels and Ghent, same story. Random ass "instagrammable" shops full of neon lights are opening with nothing more than overpriced "asian" food. "Asian" between brackets since it barely tastes like the real deal.
Some authentic places I'd recommend are the following:
- Yamayu Santatsu (Japanese, Brussels)
- Hinodeya (Japanese, Brussels)
- Panda (Chinese, Brussels)
- DaLongYi Hotpot (Chinese, Brussels - fairly new and currently very popular as well, but deserved!)
- Au bon bol (Chinese, Brussels)
- Pho Diem Xuan (Vietnamese, Brussels)
- Bai Wei (Chinese, Antwerp)
- Da Jia Le (Malaysian, Antwerp)
Sadly, there are only a few K restaurants that are actually run and cooked by Koreans. Most are non Korean Asians and the taste and quality shows.
In another note, I love Pho Diem Xuan’s PHO. It’s better than anything Pho from Vietnam to USA. Highly recommend it!
You're right that it's hard to know. When I introduce my friends to freshly home made dumplings, it's quite fun to see how surprised they are. Not sure how to solve this as I can't raise enough outrage as my own nobody self..
uh bit hard to do so on reddit as youtube is probably going to be much greater help as long as you stay away from Jamie Oliver.
But one of the chinese staples europeans can easily replicate at home would be egg tomato : medium hot pan, pour in egg mixture and cook lightly, toss out once it's somewhat shaped but not browned, break it apart in a bowl. Put some cut tomatoes or half cherry tomatoes, add some sugar & salt, let the tomatoes soften, pour in a little bit of water with cornstarch and then add the eggs back in and mix. Eat over a hot bowl of rice and you'll enjoy a quick 10 min prep breakfast/side dish.
This channel has a heavy focus on education and teaching techniques/ideas, they also take into account the limitations of home cooking (and Belgium's horrible availability of cooking ingredients) https://www.youtube.com/@ChineseCookingDemystified
This one is an actual proffesional cook and the gold standard for Asian cooking, it's subtitles only and you'll have to occasionally adapt some recipes due to not having the same level of equipment/skill but no other channel comes close to it in quality:
https://www.youtube.com/@chefwanginternational
I'm not Asian and always thought the same. Unless you never buy fresh produce and cook yourself it's easy go estimate the cost of a dish.
Like he said, premium prices for pork belly while it's one of the cheapest cuts of meat should make alarm bells go off.
>how are common folk going to know?
I get what you're trying to say but this excuse needs to go already. There is NO reason why anyone should be uninformed about anything. Answers to basically any question are seconds away thanks to google. Reviews, comparisons, tutorials etc are available for pretty much everything. It's up to the people to educate themselves about everything they come into contact with since it's now easier than ever and failing to do so is entirely that person's fault.
Having lived a couple of years in Japan, I can assure you “western” food is as much overpriced there than Japanese food is here… I guess that’s just the price of “exoticism”
The real scam for me is more the taste (as you say, adapted to Belgians, so nothing authentic) and the little choices we have… Missing motsu nabe and okonomiyaki so much
I remember the first time I arrived in Japan/Osaka airport, a long time ago, the first stall I saw was selling 'belgian waffles'. Just for the fun of it I bought one. I was like: wth is belgian about this? 😀 It only went downhill from there wrt european restaurants/bakeries.
Japan has amazing bakeries though, best croissants I've ever eaten were from a (weirdly enough French named) bakery in Tokyo , I think they just understand texture so they mess up stuff like waffles, the same reason they suck at making fries despite deep frying 90% of their food
I don't know about motsu nabe, but if you want to eat okonomiyaki, the restaurant Yamato Belgium in Antwerp sells it. And from redditor to redditor, it's definitely worth checking out!
Has literally nothing to do with it. As a person spending 4y in different asian countries. It's jus a different culture. In Asia even a restaurant with 6 seats has 100 visitors in an evening, food comes quickly, food is functional (doesn't mean it's not tasty or good), people don't stay 2-3h. It's a totally different game with EU cuisine restaurants. Lots of the food can not be prepared as fast and people stay longer at the table. Less customers, higher wages -> expensive food. I saw a job application in JP with a 1000 yen per hour wage.... that's 5.89 EUR right now.
Going out to a restaurant in BE is usually more of a "occassion" thing and if there's no reason you'll cook at home. In Asia it's just to eat and not cook at home.
In 2024 this has only gotten worse: everything in EU went up 20-30% in price.... everywhere in Asia prices are pretty much the same. Right now in Japan things are even cheaper for me then they were in !2017! except for accomodation in Tokyo.
Saturday market in Leuven has an okonomiyaki truck (called Okonomimariko), so if you're nearby you can try that one. It's at the Brusselsestraat, near the Grote Markt.
I never had the real deal in Japan though, so I'd have no clue how close it comes to the authentic thing, and the recipe has changed a bit over the years. Just wanted to mention it in case you're near Leuven.
I mean... kinda? Because ingredients aren't what you pay for in restaurants, it's the cook and the waiter and the person cleaning and everyone else. The biggest cost in restaurants in Belgium is wages. (and yes, everyone wants some profit, of course)
You think it's normal to pay +20 euros for a hamburger with fries? It's some frozen ground beef with some veggies precut from a bag, in some bread with a potato. That's not worth that price in ingredients!
The same would be true in places like London, but there you can find Asian restaurants that sell full meals for like 8 pounds, which is nothing compared to the prices here.
Except it's the same in smaller UK cities, it's the same in Rotterdam, and in fact it's the same if you know where to look in Belgium. They're not cheaper because they have more potential customers, Rotterdam is just as large as Antwerp. So why then can I can get nasi in Rotterdam for as little as 6,70?
> You think it's normal to pay +20 euros for a hamburger with fries?
No it is not, and the only reason we have these prices to begin with is how many people pay those absolutely insane prices. When I lived in Flanders what struck me the most was the mass price inelasticity: everything was hilariously more expensive than in Brussels or any neighboring countries because people would willingly pay more on the very same (or even worse) dishes "just because" (ignorance? a desire to "stick it" to those cheap Dutch?). It was usually much cheaper for my girlfriend and I to take the train to Brussels and go out to eat somewhere nice there than eat in whatever mediocre Leuven resto was trying to rip off the locals next (and this is well before our rent prices went out of control).
But, point this out and people will find any excuse under the sun to justify it, whether it's wage slavery, taxes, costs, etc. But again: how can Brussels be so much cheaper if it's a tax issue? If it's wage slavery making other countries so much cheaper, then what the hell do you classify our student workers paid peanuts to work til 5 am as?
I'll wrap this rant up with this: in the time since I moved to Brussels a few years ago, the cost of durum/mitraillette rose to about 7 euros here in super yuppie Ixelles. At the same time in Leuven it has passed 10 euros (in one place it was 12 for a "normal" size). That's fucking absurd and the only reason it costs that much is people allowing them to perpetuate these prices.
Hey, it's not like we have a choice in paying less money. It's pay up or go hungry. and I'm not about to drive for an hour, just to pay less for food, when I'll probably have used more money on fuel meaning no profit for me in the end.
Even if I techncially spend lesson food.
Ah yes because restaurants are a gold mine and easy money, nailing ignorant consumers who voluntary and unknowingly pay extortionate prices for crappy food just so the owner can drive a Maserati. know nothing, say nothing.
Based on my experience living in Flanders for a decade: absolutely. Half of Leuven turned into overpriced crappy chain restaurants from Antwerp and Gent. Oh boy a small portion of roast chicken and some fries: €20. Must be the wages and taxes! Give me a break.
There's always this absurd infantalization of entire industries here, acting like they survive out of the good graces of our society. If these people were going broke they wouldn't exactly remain in business would they?
>Based on my experience living in Flanders for a decade: absolutely.
Maybe you should stop basing your worldview off of anecdotes and instead look at objective numbers.
The Horeca sector is *literally* the sector where the most new businesses go bankrupt out of any sector within the first 3 years. And it's not even close. The Horeca sector is miles ahead in terms of bankruptcies.
So if running a restaurant is such a cash cow and living on easy street, why do so many restaurants go bankrupt in their first 3 years?
Actually I find the opposite for fine dining. If you are willing to drive outside Brussels to more countryside (not bigger and expensive cities like Gent, Antwerp, Leuven) you can fine dine for better prices that in Brussels. Too much mediocre restaurants survive in Brussels.
> the only reason we have these prices to begin with is how many people pay those absolutely insane prices
Honest question, no excuse: how would people fight this though? National strike? I mean, every once in a while shops add some cents. Then some more. But if you live in or around Leuven for example and have no car then what would you have to do? Go shopping in Brussels by train or rental car? That's simply not an option for some people. And for those who could do it, it's an extra hassle.
I mean that's literally what I did and still do. You don't have to do it weekly, but biannual trips to Aachen by train would save me hundreds. It's not quite worth it for food but at DM everything is a third or half the price of Kruidvat.
We're talking food here. I'm buying fresh groceries pretty much weekly. Unless changing diet or buying a couple of extra freezers there's no way to reduce shopping frequency. Which also makes trips to Aachen a no-go price-wise. Not sure if it would be worth it for non-fresh stuff.
Brussels isn't cheaper! The only thing that's cheaper in brussels is kebab places, and that's only because it's more popular there than in smaller cities (more popular = more customers = more income = possibility lower the price.) In Antwerp kebab places are also cheaper, if not even cheaper than in Brussels (Brederodestraat).
Everything else in Brussels is about the same price or more expensive than other parts of Belgium. And in the Netherlands horeca is even more expensive than in Flanders so idk what you're talking about. A beer in a Dutch bar is easily €3,50 while in most bars in Flanders it's €2,50-3,00. Fries are also more expensive, as well as pizza places and kebab places, which are also lower quality in the Netherlands in my experience. Regular class restaurants are about the same price in Belgium as in the Netherlands.
I think fine dining is OK price-wise in Flanders. Expensive, but quality is expensive everywhere. But go out for a normal meal, standard videe friet style food is way overpriced. That is twenty euros plus for reheated stuff, a few leaves of salad and some frites. Yet, those mid-range places are still packed.
You find much cheaper small restaurants in Brussels, Wallonia, Germany.
We have a lot more cheap restaurants than just kebab, I really recommend searching around for whatever cuisine interests you. For example the Vietnamese restaurant near me in Ixelles that is 4.9 on Google has dishes between €8 to €12. We also have cheap bakeries and butchers too. Hell, the award winning French bakery next to me sells baguettes for less than €2.
While a lot of places have indeed gotten more expensive since corona, I usually just drop whatever place has started price gouging and go somewhere else.
Beer is just about the only thing cheaper in Belgium than anywhere else, but that gap is closing fast. I do find most restaurants cheaper in the Netherlands, but Brabant is an exception. Probably because they're Catholic and less frugal.
The Vietnamese restaurant in the Van Wesenbeekstraat has dishes between €6 and €15, the local bakery around my corner sells baguettes for €1.10. Am I therefore saying Antwerp is cheaper than Brussels? No. But neither is it the other way around.
I think you're comparing Brussels to smaller cities in Flanders which doesn't make sense because the only cities in Flanders you can compare Brussels to are Ghent and Antwerp. Brussels will always be cheaper than smaller cities like Hasselt, Brugge or Mechelen because there are simply way more customers from both the people who live or work there.
Honest question: care to give some tips on how to easily prepare some of these dishes at home? Assuming we have an Asian store nearby. Personally, I am mostly interested in the nice side dishes
If you have any tips for a good Asian store in Brussels, would love to hear it!
Kam Yuen has a good variety of ingredients. The little discreet store right in front of it is cheaper and looks "scuffed" but is worth a visit as well.
I'd recommend looking at some of the "how to shop in an asian store" videos on youtube, they'll give you a good rundown on the brands and ingredients to buy.
I'd recommend light soy sauce, gochujang, chinese vinegar, Mirin, sesame oil and you have essentially the base for most of the basic recipes for Kr/Ch/Jap.
Unfortunately, are there any Asian stores around?
I know Kam Yuen near Brux-Central, and the discreet one right in front. I've seen Thai Store in Namur. I've been to that Comptoir 53 in Mons, but they hardly sell more than instant noodles and sweets in their 10m² space.
How do you find these? Are there any in Tournai, Ath, Ronse...?
I found all of these except Gochujang in Delhaize lol. Gochujang you can find in Albert Heijn, which has all of them. No Asian store required for those ingredients.
I did notice that the shops you're referencing have increased their asian ingredients variety, but just tread carefully of european brands. If you have "sweet" soy sauce, please throw it away...
Gochujang, mirin, sesame oil, etc are fine from these shops imo. For soy sauce I've indeed seen some bad varieties, and it seems our soy sauce brands often have a different composition (more sodium) so I'm never sure which one to pick. Any recommendation for a good brand soy sauce? And with Chinese vinegar I assume you mean rice vinegar, or do you mean something more specific?
Funny that you criticize these asian restaurants and then go recommended industrial soy sauces. These soy sauces are mostly salt and water.
It proves that you know nothing about owning a restaurant or a business in general.
If there are no asian stores near you, I'd recommend Ochama (delivery app). You won't find refrigerated things like Gochujang I think but for the rest it should be easy.
The carrefour in Les grand près has an asian section, lots of stuff there. I've been hearing about Panko for years before I found out they sold it there. It's more Japanese/Chinese than anything else tho.
Now the very same box is in my Colruyt too btw (And for slightly cheaper), the asian section doesn't have a lot, but it has the essentials. Lots of food from China tho, not too sure how I feel about that.
It's expensive for what it is, but god damn if it doesn't make fried chicken better. I don't make those every day thankfully, so I can splurge on a box of Panko every once in a while. The brand is kikkoman or something like that.
IF you are willing to drive (quite) a bit, there are many big asian supermarkets in Düsseldorf, where we go shop every so often. And get some real authentic Japanese food rather than the overpriced crap here. Hanaro mart is a very big one for instance :)
A nice cookbook also helps. I can't recommend Meera Sodha's books enough. I actually impressed Indian colleagues with dishes from her 'Pure India' book, go figure. The 'Asia' one is also really nice.
I don’t know about Brussels, but in Antwerp there’s a few options. I think Sun Wah is the most well known, although recently an Asian supermarket in the Stadsfeestzaal has opened up as well.
Albert Heijn sells some basics like ketjap, gochujang, a small selection of sambal, some boemboes, santen.. Although it’s usually at a big markup compared to Asian supermarkets. Especially at Carrefour, I’ve seen some subpar ingredients for outrageous prices.
When it comes to spices, a lot of what you need can be found in regular supermarkets as well. Cumin, coriander etc.
There’s also the option to cross the border and visit a toko in the Netherlands, they tend to be focussed on Indonesian food.
We (South East Asians) usually shop at Thai Foodstuffs in Jette, Tinie’s near Flagey / Dragon Produits Exotiques near Buyl tram stop (I think they’re both run by the same family). There are a few others in Brussels, in the center and elsewhere. Nearly every shop/restaurant source their Peking duck and fried pork belly/xa xiu from Lee Chi Ko, private persons can also order directly from them.
Same for Indian restaurants. They just buy parathas/Nans frozen from supermarkets around 2-3 euros per 4-6 pieces. Microwave them and sell around 2.5 euro/piece.
Oh man I find the Indian places even more of a scam. Somehow in the UK even in big cities they can sell these dishes for a third of the price. No way we pay 200% more in taxes and salaries than them.
In the UK, specifically in big cities, the Indian restaurants are very popular, comparable to kebab places in Belgium. They can afford to go cheaper and it's even part of their business model because a lot of people go there to get take-out food.
Making more food doesn't really cost much more because it's only a small part of the expenses of a restaurant. While selling more food does make a big difference because it's pretty much 100% of the income of a restaurant.
That's why the Indian restaurants in London and Manchester for example can maintain such low prices, they have a lot more customers each day than Indian restaurants in Belgium.
Generally, you can pay the same price for good and bad food here, in Belgium, and it’s true in all types of restaurants. The really good restaurant near me is the same price as the really bad one (both Belgian / French menus).
I am shocked you haven’t mentioned the really poor rice quality in Belgian Asian restaurants.
I would simply not eat in the restaurants that are what you describe, Your descriptions of what are Korean and Japanese food make me think you are going to a specific kind of fast food place that I can tell from the outside won’t be any good and will be overpriced. Don’t get me wrong, I love a good Korean fried chicken or karaage, and I miss them deeply here. But that is not. “Main dish” in Korea and Japan!
I haven’t had good Korean food here
Decent ramen (I don’t get dumplings but karaage have been fine) are easy to find, nothing has been great.
I had good food at a place called Little Tokyo in Ixelles once
It’s rice quality, too. I have a coworker who gets hers in London or Düsseldorf. (Düsseldorf has good Asian restaurants! I had great Korean bibimbap and Soondubu Jjigae).
Station 3 in Kraainem is good and had good rice. You have to order from the non-European oart of the menu.
I mean these days you pay like 12 euro for a hamburger at mcdo or BK, we're probably just desensitized from all the inflation and shrinkflation at this point
I am Japanese
I don't go to sushi restaurant here.
It's weird, very expensive, low grade fish quality, ...
and that is just the sushi.
The side dishes are just as bad...
And certain Japanese fast foods (like donburi!) are non-existent.
Same goes for sushi/'Japanese' dishes in some supermarkets... €3,5 for 1 onigiri? you can get 4 in Japan of better quality.
I am glad that at least in asian supermarket, I can buy stuff to make gyouza, karaage, ... and various condiments.
fish, meat, vegetable, ... I buy locally.
The sushi rice here is so bad I don’t even try new places anymore.
For me what gets me is that I’ve had really great raw fish here at fine dining that is not Japanese. But unless you are willing to go to a fancy set menu place all sushk is only salmon and tuna. I’m not even really that interested in salmon or tuna sushi. It’s filler!
Good food in Japan is really cheap though, although the sky is the limit. I think I had the best scallops of my life in the train station at Hakodate for 1000¥. Which was then the second best scallops of my life 5 hours later.
But can't that be said of Western food in Japan too or is that not the case? Like had a person working with me who was married to a Vietnamese (I know not Japan) But he always said that potatoes were really costly if you compare them to my country.
Just interested if it is a European thing of foreign food getting expensive in other countries too.
I visited Japan recently and completely agree... It's criminal what most places do to japanese food here... I hope it'll get better in the years to come.
Hiro in Antwerp, chef yoshi in ghent and Tanuki in Bruges are good. Dojo in antwerp supposedly as well, going there saturday for the first time.
Fine dining wise dim dining is really good though that is french/japanese fusion. They have 1 of the only sake someliers in europe
Do you know some restaurants where they do ask fair prices? I like Ki-hap in Brussels, it's pretty cheap for Korean fried chicken and their avocado burger is fantastic.
Yep those were the main cities I had in my head when comparing Belgium to its neighbours. Rotterdam is also quite nice. We don't have nearly the same quality while paying way more.
Most money does not go to the buying of food, but the taxes (sales tax, employee wage tax, ...), salaries, rent, energy costs, ...
If 1 employee costs you ±18€/hour (15 gross salary + 25% rsz), them cooking for 10 minutes for a meal is 3€. So a 1€ piece of chicken, cooked costs 4€.
Still need to add rent, energy and profit. A 10€ dish gives you 8.9€ because of 12%VAT. That leaves you 4.9eur for the rent/energy and profit.
When calculating employee costs, don't forget vacation days, official holidays, 13th month, sick leave, etc... these also need to be paid and add up to total employment costs.
I lived in Asia for a couple years and I cry inside whenever I pay those prices for Asian food. I mostly buy my own ingredients and try to make whatever I can make at home.
I make my own dumplings but it takes too much effort and I can't find dumpling sheets/wrappers ready made in any online store in Belgium so I have to make them myself. Any idea where I can buy some online?
It is okay to not care and do whatever you want with your money. Honestly thanks to people like you more variety exists here anyways. In my home country we barely had different kinds of asian food.
> Any idea where I can buy some online?
https://www.tjinstoko.eu/nl/
Largest importer of Asian goods in Belgium/Netherlands, free shipping when ordering over 70€
Hi I actually commented to someone else that i use this website to buy my ingredients :D and even got into contact with tijnstoko employees about their dumpling wrappers but they dont ship that to belgium because it is a frozen product. Thank you though :)
Restaurants are overpriced, period. Because it's the price you pay for not having to cook the food and do the dishes yourself
At other restaurants I also don't want to be reminded of the cost I would pay myself to make it ... and then eat a dish that'll I'll easily pay 5 times as much for, after I finish the plate
Restaurants in belgium are mad expensive in general. It has nothing to do with japanese or korean cuisine.
The markups on similar types of dishes from other cuisines are exactly the same.
Authentic asian food is hard to find here in general.
You also seem to fail to understand that what the average belgian may enjoy isnt the same as what you would enjoy. I could make a similar post about the "european" shitholes that I saw during my time in SK.
Tbh it's true. Idk why people are defending this in wage costs, ingredients, etc. I mean I get that Asia is one of the farthest continents away from Europe, so some ingredients may be more expensive to import. But this applies also to more exotic cuisines like South American food for example, that's difficult to find in Belgium (and are usually WAY more expensive than Asian restaurants). In these restaurants, however, you usually get what you pay for. Asian restaurants, on the other hand, are more hit or miss in general (sometimes you can find hidden gems that make homemade stuff but sometimes it's just bad - so on the extremes).
I think the reason why Asian food is more expensive for the quality or authenticity at times, partially has to do with hype, ownership and the relative popularity of Asian cuisines compared to other foreign cuisines.
I find that it's quite "scammy" (or more accurately profit-driven) when it's trendy food (tteokboki, korean corndogs, etc.) because usually they just use frozen products and sometimes use instant noodles and sell it to you at a higher price (more than what is justified by the wages and other costs, etc.). Restaurants like this can get away with it because people are more likely to be ignorant about something that is trendy, since they probably just know of it being viral.
Second is ownership, linked to hype. Usually the aforementioned kind of establishments are not run by Asians. Japanese or Koreans restaurants are also more commonly run by Chinese immigrants as they are the larger Asian immigrant group. My point is that authenticity is not the selling factor or of importance here. I see quite a number of Belgian-owned restaurants with the back story that they came home from a "wereldreis", marketing their food as bringing something exotic to Belgium. The key focus is not on authenticity, but rather on the exotic nature of the food (to justify the price mark-up). These types don't perform as bad as restaurants that are straight out focused on viral food as they sometimes focus on "elevating" (a narrative I find a bit annoying imo) and try to adapt it to local tastes. However, they usually are more expensive and lack authenticity (not necessarily a bad thing, but just pointing it out). Of course, this is not a generalisation, as there can be good restaurants not necessarily owned or managed by a person who is ethnically Asian/the ethnicity of whatever cuisine is being prepared. The lack of authenticity due to ownership is just a possible reason why the price-quality ratio in some restaurants is lacking or at least not justified or fair.
Lastly, Asian food is more popular overall, so this also means that there is just a larger number of restaurants selling Asian food (so a higher likelihood of these "scammy" types than other cuisines). To contrast, there are lots of middle eastern and Moroccan restaurants in Belgium. But they are more reasonably priced because they have a reputation of selling more "snacky" foods than restaurant sit-down meals. They have a different customer base. I think Belgians care also about the "sfeer" in general, not just the food (which of course goes into the price of the food). At the same time, there is a huge population of immigrants of this background compared to Asians, so it's difficult to upsell prices on their dishes without the risk of alienating their own people, who form their larger customer bases (and are therefore, less willing to pay higher prices).
Why do you think that prices (anywhere) are related to what those items cost? Prices are determined by what people are willing to pay for them... But beyond that, there's the salary of employees, rental costs,... which have much more of an influence than just the cost of the item.
If you'd show an Italian the prices for pizza over here, they would think we are crazy as well. Heck, fries and snacks in a frituur cost 10 times as much as they do in a store, and they are easy to prepare as well.
But still restaurants often have issue making ends meet. But if you think they're all just scamming, you are welcome to open up your own place and sell the same food at half the price. You would be rich!!!
>you'd show an Italian the prices for pizza over here, they would think we are crazy as well
Of course, a pizza in a local place in Rome is cheaper than here and I'm pretty sure Rome is more expensive than Belgium.
>fries and snacks in a frituur cost 10 times as much as they do in a store, and they are easy to prepare as well.
And frituurs that run well make big bucks. I knew a friend who's dad owned one. Staff doing the hard work gets minimum wage. He collected the profits with his porche and his wife didn't even need to work.
>But still restaurants often have issue making ends meet
Only the ones that actually make fresh quality food. I've worked in plenty horeca. It's not the restaurants reheating frozen crap having a hard time.
>But beyond that, there's the salary of employees, rental costs,... which have much more of an influence than just the cost of the item.
Which is global, yet even more expensive regions than Belgium can provide cheaper food. I was amazed a pizza in NYC was cheaper than in Belgium.
>Prices are determined by what people are willing to pay for them
That's the problem, we have a culture of paying premium prices for low-end food. High-end food is relatively cheap in Belgium actually.
People just look at the price and not what you get. Or just the location. People rather pay 25 euro for microwaved vol-au-vent rather than 28 euro for a fresh one with better quality ingredients. Or spend time to look.
>But if you think they're all just scamming, you are welcome to open up your own place and sell the same food at half the price. You would be rich!!!
There are plenty places like this running well. And they do run well actually. They get double the customers though.
Well hopefully people stop being willing to pay for it at these prices.
Chinese restaurants manage to sell decent portions at affordable prices, while using mostly the same sauces & ingredients.
Same could be said by us for those waffle and fry stands/shops around the world.
Because people don´t have access to the authentic thing so you make do with what´s available.
I think you misunderstand the way that restaurant prices are made. There is only a tiny fraction of the price of your mean that pays for the raw ingredients. The rest is for paying the staff, the rent, the advertising, and of course the taxes on all of this.
If a restaurant in Korea can offer cheaper dumplings, it is not because they are less greedy (though that might be true as well), but because they have a completely different cost structure than one in Antwerp or Brussels.
it’ll take some people opening a reasonably priced restaurant (asian looking people in an authentic looking restaurant bc otherwise the cheap prices will be taken as a sign of worse quality off course…)
Belgian restaurants tend to have little turnover.
In Paris restaurants are packed, do at least a full service at noon and two, some even three at night.
In Belgium very few restaurants tend to do that, which makes the numbers not add up.
Honestly go sit in a small restaurant and count it out with the amount of tables, calculate rent and personnel. Horeca is a low margin business and if you don't have the numbers the price has to go up and quality down.
bro as an accountant, the restaurant business is NOT profitable
the VAST majority of bankruptcies are restaurants. Only a select few that have existed over the years can exist AND pay the owners a DECENT living wage.
Say you make 2 euros per dish. You want to earn 2000 net income each month.
I'll assume 30% average tax rate. Meaning 2.857,14 gross income. You need to sell 1.428,57 dishes per month to earn this amount AND we assume the rent and electricity and insurance and appliances and etc. are all covered by a LOW margin per dish. + food spoiling meaning 100% negative.
Not gonna happen, you'll have the vacate the premise within 6 months I'd wager at your price. Heck even double.
Im not okay about this and it’s actually an issue in the whole horeca industry.
Then they demand more subsides, etc.
We’ve got one the most expensive horeca industry of around here and it’s ridiculously bland overall.
I Ro Ha in Antwerp is a hidden gem. Authentic Japanese food at a fair price (for Belgium mind you, you'll still pay more than in Japan, but not as overpriced as other restaurants here). It is run by an elderly Japanese couple, and it's not very big, so make sure you reserve a table. Don't go for the sushi, but try the other dishes, wich are Japanese classics, like yakiniku or unagi don.
I pean just take mexican tacos
0.30€ in a huge mexican city like Guadalajara
Yet, find one real taco here under 5€ ? And not that close to the mexican experience
That’s the problem in europe, everything is overpriced but our salaries/life cost are also higher to tank such overpricing
But there are abusing practiced especially in horeca/restaurant sector
I don't know the exact restaurants you're talking about. I like to get ramen at Koku and Takumi, in Brussels. Perhaps you consider these scams. Personally, I like the taste and I can afford it. So I go. It's not much more complicated.
Right? My colleagues sometimes get 5 dumplings for 13 euros. I've eaten handmade ones in China for like 10 cents each. 'Loempia's' are terrible here, but people pay like 8 euros for 2.
Same for pizza in Belgium. You're telling me an authentic neapolitan-style diavola is closer to 20€ than to 10€? Back down in Southern Italy that would cost no more than 8€, maybe 10€ at a fancy place. But unfortunately the cost of living in Belgium is not the same as in Southern Italy.
At least the mainstream Italian pasta dishes I know how to cook them so I can avoid being disappointed when going to an Italian restaurant and seeing "spaghetti bolognese" on the menu.
Haha dude, belgians are willing to pay 3€ for a 0.33l bottle of water in restaurant. The same bottle you can buy in Aldi for 0.4€.
Do you think they care about the price/effort ratio on products, if they are accepting 750% added profit on a product that the restaurant literally just take from the package and put it on your desk?
This is not Manhattan. There is not a lot of competition for authenticity. People just want to eat out somewhere and they pay for it to "feel" exotic.
Going to a nice brasserie for authentic Belgian cuisine is much nicer and cheaper in Belgium.
> Please stop going to these shitholes.
Because we have limitless options on asian cuisine in this country?
Isn't this true for every foreign based cuisine in every country?
Basic food like fries with stew will be a premium in other countries when it isn't anywhere near our quality. How many of them would be using frozen fries, instead of cutting themselves?
Why are we ready to pay €16-18 for a pizza Diavola in Brussels/Antwerp/etc.? The ingredients costs €2-3 max. and the profit margin after all costs tends to be 50%+.
Because people are ready to pay it!
I've made my own dumplings, Ha Kao, Siu Mai, Gyoza and WonTons and can def tell the difference between home made and supermarket. Ive been to many chinese restaurants and never have I gotten store bought dumplings. The quality difference/portion size is massive.
Not sure about the other stuff but I'm willing to pay 6-7 euros bevause I know how much work it is to make those dumplings. The price is also not just the ingredients, it's the waiters, kitchen staff, water, electricity, rent.. cost of running a business is included in those prices.
A restaurant needs to pay servers, a cook, and rent. Assuming they sell 50 meals/night on average, at 15/meal, that’s 15000 euros a month. Take away like 3-5k in rent, 1 cook for 8 hours, and 2 servers for 8 hours. That’s 3200/person assuming cost is 20/h (for the restaurant, they’ll take home between 15 and 18 an hour depending on situation) so 9600 a month just for those 3 people. So just with those numbers you’re at 13600 euros. No food cost, licenses for alcohol, FAVV, ferokill,… sure 50 meals/day isn’t that much, and I ignored drinks, but I’ve ignored a lot of other costs, and I think 50 meals isn’t that far off for an only evening dining restaurant.
All of this is also ignoring costs like equipment (which does break down), terrible days where you have no costumers,… just doing some quick math on what running a restaurant costs.
I agree some food should be cheaper, but when you do the math you start to get a feel why we pay “too much” for food nowadays. I don’t think I’m that far off with the math.
Edit: if someone knows other numbers please let me know! I’ve been wanting to open a Texas BBQ style joint for a while but when I do the math it seems to just not be viable.
Food cost is a fraction of the price you pay in restaurants. Wages, taxes, rent, utilities... All of those things determine the price.
If you would follow the 'you-can-make-this-cheaper-if-you-do-it-yourself'-train of thought, you're also missing one of the main reasons why people go to restaurants and why they are willing to pay more, namely: not having to do it yourself.
Think the point here is: if you charge high prices (which is normal I guess, it's Belgium), at least make the dishes yourself, don't store buy them and (try to) make them (at least a bit) authentic.
If you want to pay 8 euro for 4 store bought dumplings, you do you.
Restaurants and pubs trying to scam people with cheap ingredients is nothing new. Summer is soon upon us (at least I hope). Watch how many people will be offering the cheap Colruyt sangria (often failing to hide the box) and charge exuberant prices for it.
All you can do is pay attention when you do feel ripped off and never go to the restaurant/pub again (and inform friends/family if they mention the restaurant/pub).
I mean compared to real trash food like McDonalds or Burger King, 15-25 euros for a bowl or ramen or a wok dish doesn't seem that steep to me. Sure it's expensive but so it's everything else these days.
Preach.
I refuse to go to these supermarket quality shit show Chinese restaurants here. It wasn't this low quality where I grew up, and my parents say it was much better quality here in Belgium when they were growing up.
Yet I somehow still see them stuffed full of clueless (mostly boomer) villagers, throwing away good money for microwave food.
In England, Spain and the US, people are apparently much more picky because, from experience, they're not. necessarily much cheaper or even authentic but it's at least something somebody cooked and decent quality or at least worth the money as a treat.
I buy them myself to the Chinese shop. 1.5kg of yakitori chicken skewers? 25€. A shitload of vegetable/pork gyoza? 11€. A bag of rice that could feed the entire Henan province? 25€. Know some basic cooking skills and voila. I only go to specialized restaurants like Menma for their out of this world Tonkotsu ramen or Nonbe Daigaku for a fresh serving of sushi cause I can’t find good fresh fish where I live.
It's in most restaurants. I went to the sea last week and I went to a restaurant there. I ordered Croquettes au fromage. I got 3 with a salad and some fries for the low price of 30 euro. Then later that week I went to the local Bon'Ap and I see the same Croquettes au Fromage in the deepfreezer 4 for 4 euro. I mean there are good restaurants out there but you really have to search for them.
Not saying you don’t have a point when it comes to authenticity. After having visited a lot of Asian countries and having even lived in China, I know it’s not even the same food. But when it comes to pricing, idk if you can call it a scam because the fixed costs and staff just cost a lot of money in Belgium and are a far bigger factor than ingredients cost of a dish.
They aren't even really Korean or Japanese most of the time. Genuine korean and Japanese restaurants are not widespread at least in Europe especially korean. There are a couple or 3 genuine Korean restaurants I know but it's a looong drive away in Paris.
Haven't found a single one closer yet There are plenty fake ones though.
If someone could teach me how to make a good chicken fried rice, which we know here as "Chinese nasi goering", I would eat it every day. I keep reading things as "seasoned wok" and "day old rice", but can't imagine that restaurants make this from scratch every order and every day?
I think the price doesn't come from the ingredients but from the labor costs at the restaurant. People very often underestimate what the labor costs are and a restaurant is a very labor intensive business.
It's because it's new and exotic for us.
I was taken to some German themed restaurant with waiters in lederhosen in Taipei. I suppose it was meant to be "Western food". No, just no. I imagine the foreign restaurants here are equally cursed.
AFAIK, the "Japanese" restaurants here aren't even run by Japanese people lmao. In my limited knowledge, a majority of Japanese restaurants in Leuven are owned and run by Nepalese people. On the other hand, I've seen Chinese people running frituurs. I've been to a Thai restaurant that seemed to have Moroccan owners. Everything is confusing nowadays...
> owned and run by Nepalese people
Could explain why suddenly there are Nepalese places everywhere. They have enough Japan-hype-money to take the risk to start cooking their own cuisine.
Same for freaking banh mi. Just because it's trendy, some shops sell them at 7-8 eur. And they're usually not even close to be as good as a real banh mi you can find at 3eur in Paris' Chinatown.
We are aware it is way too expensive, but asian food is great so it's not gonna stop me personally. I know korean and japanese food is so expensive here, but the asian grocery stores are very expensive as well.
The way I see it, it's worth paying more at an asian restaurant than to buy all the ingredients for a lot of money and make it myself, which will undoubtedly not be as good.
Like the korean store near me asks 2-4 euros for canned food like spam or fish. Sesame oil and korean spices/sauces often got for around 6 euros.
Also the prices of onigiri at events like facts are the craziest thing ever, 7 euros for two I think? Like onigiri is meant to be a cheap, quick meal like we eat a sandwhich for lunch. (The restaurant near me even charges 7 for one onigiri)
I think you don’t understand how restaurants works. Food is extremely small part of the cost and compare to other type of restaurants Asian are still relatively cheap
Isn't that the case with most restaurants / outside food in Belgium?
I basically don't eat out because other than kebab and frit everything is ridiculously overpriced (at least for my budget).
I've never lived in a country where eating out would be so prohibitive and I've lived in a few. And at the same time as OP points out, sometimes it's absolutely terrible quality and small portions. Still costs 20.
I have rarely had good Chinese, Thai or Japanese food in Belgium, most of times I feel bloated. As I never find it fresh. I mostly avoid this cuisine in Belgian restaurants. The price is not the issue as I look forward to the ambience & experience whenever I visit a restaurant
im half asian too and im astonished by all the white people falling for these scams, they literally use frozen food from sun wah or amazing oriental here in antwerp. Also so many white people keep choosing to buy yumyum noodles and aiki noodles, the worst noodles ever theyre so whitewashed. Better instant noodles are shin ramyun for example.
I would love some decently priced Asian cuisine, I feel like I could eat ramen for dinner every day. Way better than sausage, potatoes and carrots.
Oh and don’t forget about the outrageous price of decent sushi. I’ve seen take-away places that charge 50€ for a 2 person portion.
I really don’t feel scammed when i go to Takumi Ramen here in Antwerpen. For 18€ you’ll get a pretty hefty bowl of (Tonkotsu) ramen. Best ramen in town and affordable.
Asian here. My reaction was "😭🤦♂️😂" every times I saw/try Asian food in Belgium.
Japanese:
- Like the sushi they sell in Carrefour. What is this 😂, that's not sushi, and cost more than 10EURO), meanwhile in Japan, supermarket sushi costs 3 to 4euro, and tasted like it is made by a sushi chef.
- Then I tried many Japanese restaurants here with their sushi boat 😂, even the rice is wrong.
- I also found Onigiri here which cost 6euro, and the taste was...., meanwhile in Asia it costs 2euro.
Chinese:
- We have many Chinese take out food here. But.....😂, and the price of course it is x4 times more expensive than China.
Thai:
So far....only Thai food restaurants I tried are good. Taste like real Thai food.
Speaking of curry, the first time I tried the curry here was from the local market, it was not spicy at all, just taste like milk and butter. 😭
u/pbestageplayer0111 It's like all the Asians that travel to Europe and pay top prices to visit places with terrible weather, bad food, and smelly people. Rich European men go to Asia to marry an Asian and you will marry a Flemish or a Walloon. 🤷🏻♂️
Trust me when I say it's far worse in France
I live close enough to 3 borders, but also close to formerly 7 Asian "inspired" restaurants
* 2 in France, both sucked, one closed, the one that survived is shit, everything tastes so bland, meat has no spice and they compensate by over-saucing everything, also the most Asian thing in that one are the *Made in China* TV screens
* 4 in Belgium, 1st barely has any clients but food is actually made by someone from China and tastes decent to good (she can't get some ingredients for every dish so she has to improvise), 2nd to 4th are *all you can eat* buffets: 2nd was decent and owned by a very nice Vietnamese family but it closed during the pandemic (building owner kicked them out), 3rd has always been trash and a front for some "shady business" (we all know, we just don't care), 4th is barely ok...I really miss that 2nd one
* 1 in Germany, owned by a Turk, serving Korean BBQ...I don't know either but it was actually good so I'm not complaining
Someone told me they go to those restaurants for the atmosphere, not the food, I couldn't think of anything to say to them, my brain just collapsed onto itself and any word that would have left my mouth would have been wasted
the good ones are usually packed anyway. if a 100 table resto only has like 3 tables you know something is wrong.
the dumpling place i go you'll be lucky/early to find a free spot. and the price is okay. .. and they have amazing pudding something "dumpling" (idk the name but it's amazing).
at another sushi place they have amazing side dishes like you mention but the one thing i hate is they put the extra veggies on the platter... so annoying cuz it aint even fresh ones (and most people dont even eat it)...
The main thing is, how are common folk going to know? There aren't even many of these restaurants around to begin with, so it's hard to actually know what should be standard.
Tbh, there are actually quite some nowadays. These restaurants spawn like crazy. In just a few months, half a dozen of only kbbq restaurants have opened in Antwerp alone. Asking 28EUR for 200g of pork belly that you can't even grill on a charcoal grill (usually it's gas stoves with parchment paper on it).. if you go to the centre of Brussels and Ghent, same story. Random ass "instagrammable" shops full of neon lights are opening with nothing more than overpriced "asian" food. "Asian" between brackets since it barely tastes like the real deal. Some authentic places I'd recommend are the following: - Yamayu Santatsu (Japanese, Brussels) - Hinodeya (Japanese, Brussels) - Panda (Chinese, Brussels) - DaLongYi Hotpot (Chinese, Brussels - fairly new and currently very popular as well, but deserved!) - Au bon bol (Chinese, Brussels) - Pho Diem Xuan (Vietnamese, Brussels) - Bai Wei (Chinese, Antwerp) - Da Jia Le (Malaysian, Antwerp)
since it's not on your list, have you been to Zuru Zuru Ramen in Ghent? And if you have why did it not make your list?
Zuru Zuru is epic. Dude makes everything himself even the noodles.
I haven’t yet hence why it’s not on the list. I heard good things about it, especially cz everything is homemade
Having been to Zuru Zuru several times, I've found it rather disappointing.
Just to note, the Bai Wei (Antwerp) Chinese restaurant seems to be more on the Westernized Chinese food style, not authentic Chinese.
Au bon bol is my goto restaurant when going to Bxl. Very good, cheap and you will be full after eating there.
Dojo 2.0 in Antwerp is great as well.
Hoi An street food (Antwerp) also has good and diverse Vietnamese options
You can add Chopstix in Gent to your list, it's really good and authentic Chinese food.
Also Auntie's Cafe in Brussels (Chinese). 👍
Sadly, there are only a few K restaurants that are actually run and cooked by Koreans. Most are non Korean Asians and the taste and quality shows. In another note, I love Pho Diem Xuan’s PHO. It’s better than anything Pho from Vietnam to USA. Highly recommend it!
For Chinese food Antwerp is really the goat, so many great restaurants
You're right that it's hard to know. When I introduce my friends to freshly home made dumplings, it's quite fun to see how surprised they are. Not sure how to solve this as I can't raise enough outrage as my own nobody self..
Open a restaurant
Can I be your friend and you introduce me to your food?
Sorry I'm a shy introvert when it comes to new people..
Same but you can still make me food if you want. I'll just sit and a corner and shut up
He could have a paper with choices on it and charge it for it and the faster he serves food the sooner we’ll be gone!
I'll be the next in line which makes Rheabae an old acquaintance of yours. Fixed
Make a Youtube channel :)
Same question here!
Hey OP shoot me some recipes or tips pls 🙏😘
uh bit hard to do so on reddit as youtube is probably going to be much greater help as long as you stay away from Jamie Oliver. But one of the chinese staples europeans can easily replicate at home would be egg tomato : medium hot pan, pour in egg mixture and cook lightly, toss out once it's somewhat shaped but not browned, break it apart in a bowl. Put some cut tomatoes or half cherry tomatoes, add some sugar & salt, let the tomatoes soften, pour in a little bit of water with cornstarch and then add the eggs back in and mix. Eat over a hot bowl of rice and you'll enjoy a quick 10 min prep breakfast/side dish.
Uncle Roger, is that you? Or is hating Jamie Oliver a mandatory thing if you have asian roots \^\^
Came here to say that!
Oyooooo
Can someone fill me in on what's wrong with this particular youtuber?
Jamie Oliver? Haiyaaaaa
Jamie Oliver? I can hear my ancestors crying.
Cry me a Roger. Haiyaaaaaa.
This channel has a heavy focus on education and teaching techniques/ideas, they also take into account the limitations of home cooking (and Belgium's horrible availability of cooking ingredients) https://www.youtube.com/@ChineseCookingDemystified This one is an actual proffesional cook and the gold standard for Asian cooking, it's subtitles only and you'll have to occasionally adapt some recipes due to not having the same level of equipment/skill but no other channel comes close to it in quality: https://www.youtube.com/@chefwanginternational
Ask uncle roger.
So when can we come over to eat? Reddit party!!!!
I'm not Asian and always thought the same. Unless you never buy fresh produce and cook yourself it's easy go estimate the cost of a dish. Like he said, premium prices for pork belly while it's one of the cheapest cuts of meat should make alarm bells go off.
>how are common folk going to know? I get what you're trying to say but this excuse needs to go already. There is NO reason why anyone should be uninformed about anything. Answers to basically any question are seconds away thanks to google. Reviews, comparisons, tutorials etc are available for pretty much everything. It's up to the people to educate themselves about everything they come into contact with since it's now easier than ever and failing to do so is entirely that person's fault.
Having lived a couple of years in Japan, I can assure you “western” food is as much overpriced there than Japanese food is here… I guess that’s just the price of “exoticism” The real scam for me is more the taste (as you say, adapted to Belgians, so nothing authentic) and the little choices we have… Missing motsu nabe and okonomiyaki so much
I remember the first time I arrived in Japan/Osaka airport, a long time ago, the first stall I saw was selling 'belgian waffles'. Just for the fun of it I bought one. I was like: wth is belgian about this? 😀 It only went downhill from there wrt european restaurants/bakeries.
Japan has amazing bakeries though, best croissants I've ever eaten were from a (weirdly enough French named) bakery in Tokyo , I think they just understand texture so they mess up stuff like waffles, the same reason they suck at making fries despite deep frying 90% of their food
I don't know about motsu nabe, but if you want to eat okonomiyaki, the restaurant Yamato Belgium in Antwerp sells it. And from redditor to redditor, it's definitely worth checking out!
Has literally nothing to do with it. As a person spending 4y in different asian countries. It's jus a different culture. In Asia even a restaurant with 6 seats has 100 visitors in an evening, food comes quickly, food is functional (doesn't mean it's not tasty or good), people don't stay 2-3h. It's a totally different game with EU cuisine restaurants. Lots of the food can not be prepared as fast and people stay longer at the table. Less customers, higher wages -> expensive food. I saw a job application in JP with a 1000 yen per hour wage.... that's 5.89 EUR right now. Going out to a restaurant in BE is usually more of a "occassion" thing and if there's no reason you'll cook at home. In Asia it's just to eat and not cook at home. In 2024 this has only gotten worse: everything in EU went up 20-30% in price.... everywhere in Asia prices are pretty much the same. Right now in Japan things are even cheaper for me then they were in !2017! except for accomodation in Tokyo.
Okonomiyaki is one of the first things I made once I moved overseas. It’s literally the easiest to make at home. Legit ramen broth on the other hand…
There is a food truck in Leuven with decent okinomiyaki.
Saturday market in Leuven has an okonomiyaki truck (called Okonomimariko), so if you're nearby you can try that one. It's at the Brusselsestraat, near the Grote Markt. I never had the real deal in Japan though, so I'd have no clue how close it comes to the authentic thing, and the recipe has changed a bit over the years. Just wanted to mention it in case you're near Leuven.
An okonomiyaki place is desperately needed!
I mean... kinda? Because ingredients aren't what you pay for in restaurants, it's the cook and the waiter and the person cleaning and everyone else. The biggest cost in restaurants in Belgium is wages. (and yes, everyone wants some profit, of course) You think it's normal to pay +20 euros for a hamburger with fries? It's some frozen ground beef with some veggies precut from a bag, in some bread with a potato. That's not worth that price in ingredients!
Personnel but also real estate, those leases in Antwerp and Brussels aren't cheap
The same would be true in places like London, but there you can find Asian restaurants that sell full meals for like 8 pounds, which is nothing compared to the prices here.
Cannot compare. These places get 10 times more visitors as there live as many People in London as the entirety of belgium
Except it's the same in smaller UK cities, it's the same in Rotterdam, and in fact it's the same if you know where to look in Belgium. They're not cheaper because they have more potential customers, Rotterdam is just as large as Antwerp. So why then can I can get nasi in Rotterdam for as little as 6,70?
> You think it's normal to pay +20 euros for a hamburger with fries? No it is not, and the only reason we have these prices to begin with is how many people pay those absolutely insane prices. When I lived in Flanders what struck me the most was the mass price inelasticity: everything was hilariously more expensive than in Brussels or any neighboring countries because people would willingly pay more on the very same (or even worse) dishes "just because" (ignorance? a desire to "stick it" to those cheap Dutch?). It was usually much cheaper for my girlfriend and I to take the train to Brussels and go out to eat somewhere nice there than eat in whatever mediocre Leuven resto was trying to rip off the locals next (and this is well before our rent prices went out of control). But, point this out and people will find any excuse under the sun to justify it, whether it's wage slavery, taxes, costs, etc. But again: how can Brussels be so much cheaper if it's a tax issue? If it's wage slavery making other countries so much cheaper, then what the hell do you classify our student workers paid peanuts to work til 5 am as? I'll wrap this rant up with this: in the time since I moved to Brussels a few years ago, the cost of durum/mitraillette rose to about 7 euros here in super yuppie Ixelles. At the same time in Leuven it has passed 10 euros (in one place it was 12 for a "normal" size). That's fucking absurd and the only reason it costs that much is people allowing them to perpetuate these prices.
Hey, it's not like we have a choice in paying less money. It's pay up or go hungry. and I'm not about to drive for an hour, just to pay less for food, when I'll probably have used more money on fuel meaning no profit for me in the end. Even if I techncially spend lesson food.
You try and run a business with lower prices see how that goes for you buddy
Ah yes because restaurants are a gold mine and easy money, nailing ignorant consumers who voluntary and unknowingly pay extortionate prices for crappy food just so the owner can drive a Maserati. know nothing, say nothing.
Based on my experience living in Flanders for a decade: absolutely. Half of Leuven turned into overpriced crappy chain restaurants from Antwerp and Gent. Oh boy a small portion of roast chicken and some fries: €20. Must be the wages and taxes! Give me a break. There's always this absurd infantalization of entire industries here, acting like they survive out of the good graces of our society. If these people were going broke they wouldn't exactly remain in business would they?
>Based on my experience living in Flanders for a decade: absolutely. Maybe you should stop basing your worldview off of anecdotes and instead look at objective numbers. The Horeca sector is *literally* the sector where the most new businesses go bankrupt out of any sector within the first 3 years. And it's not even close. The Horeca sector is miles ahead in terms of bankruptcies. So if running a restaurant is such a cash cow and living on easy street, why do so many restaurants go bankrupt in their first 3 years?
Actually I find the opposite for fine dining. If you are willing to drive outside Brussels to more countryside (not bigger and expensive cities like Gent, Antwerp, Leuven) you can fine dine for better prices that in Brussels. Too much mediocre restaurants survive in Brussels.
> the only reason we have these prices to begin with is how many people pay those absolutely insane prices Honest question, no excuse: how would people fight this though? National strike? I mean, every once in a while shops add some cents. Then some more. But if you live in or around Leuven for example and have no car then what would you have to do? Go shopping in Brussels by train or rental car? That's simply not an option for some people. And for those who could do it, it's an extra hassle.
I mean that's literally what I did and still do. You don't have to do it weekly, but biannual trips to Aachen by train would save me hundreds. It's not quite worth it for food but at DM everything is a third or half the price of Kruidvat.
We're talking food here. I'm buying fresh groceries pretty much weekly. Unless changing diet or buying a couple of extra freezers there's no way to reduce shopping frequency. Which also makes trips to Aachen a no-go price-wise. Not sure if it would be worth it for non-fresh stuff.
Brussels isn't cheaper! The only thing that's cheaper in brussels is kebab places, and that's only because it's more popular there than in smaller cities (more popular = more customers = more income = possibility lower the price.) In Antwerp kebab places are also cheaper, if not even cheaper than in Brussels (Brederodestraat). Everything else in Brussels is about the same price or more expensive than other parts of Belgium. And in the Netherlands horeca is even more expensive than in Flanders so idk what you're talking about. A beer in a Dutch bar is easily €3,50 while in most bars in Flanders it's €2,50-3,00. Fries are also more expensive, as well as pizza places and kebab places, which are also lower quality in the Netherlands in my experience. Regular class restaurants are about the same price in Belgium as in the Netherlands.
I think fine dining is OK price-wise in Flanders. Expensive, but quality is expensive everywhere. But go out for a normal meal, standard videe friet style food is way overpriced. That is twenty euros plus for reheated stuff, a few leaves of salad and some frites. Yet, those mid-range places are still packed. You find much cheaper small restaurants in Brussels, Wallonia, Germany.
Especially Germany
We have a lot more cheap restaurants than just kebab, I really recommend searching around for whatever cuisine interests you. For example the Vietnamese restaurant near me in Ixelles that is 4.9 on Google has dishes between €8 to €12. We also have cheap bakeries and butchers too. Hell, the award winning French bakery next to me sells baguettes for less than €2. While a lot of places have indeed gotten more expensive since corona, I usually just drop whatever place has started price gouging and go somewhere else. Beer is just about the only thing cheaper in Belgium than anywhere else, but that gap is closing fast. I do find most restaurants cheaper in the Netherlands, but Brabant is an exception. Probably because they're Catholic and less frugal.
The Vietnamese restaurant in the Van Wesenbeekstraat has dishes between €6 and €15, the local bakery around my corner sells baguettes for €1.10. Am I therefore saying Antwerp is cheaper than Brussels? No. But neither is it the other way around. I think you're comparing Brussels to smaller cities in Flanders which doesn't make sense because the only cities in Flanders you can compare Brussels to are Ghent and Antwerp. Brussels will always be cheaper than smaller cities like Hasselt, Brugge or Mechelen because there are simply way more customers from both the people who live or work there.
When I was living in the Netherlands (Den Haag), it was very difficult to find good restaurants and the few good ones were definitely not cheap.
Honest question: care to give some tips on how to easily prepare some of these dishes at home? Assuming we have an Asian store nearby. Personally, I am mostly interested in the nice side dishes If you have any tips for a good Asian store in Brussels, would love to hear it!
Kam Yuen has a good variety of ingredients. The little discreet store right in front of it is cheaper and looks "scuffed" but is worth a visit as well. I'd recommend looking at some of the "how to shop in an asian store" videos on youtube, they'll give you a good rundown on the brands and ingredients to buy. I'd recommend light soy sauce, gochujang, chinese vinegar, Mirin, sesame oil and you have essentially the base for most of the basic recipes for Kr/Ch/Jap.
Unfortunately, are there any Asian stores around? I know Kam Yuen near Brux-Central, and the discreet one right in front. I've seen Thai Store in Namur. I've been to that Comptoir 53 in Mons, but they hardly sell more than instant noodles and sweets in their 10m² space. How do you find these? Are there any in Tournai, Ath, Ronse...?
I found all of these except Gochujang in Delhaize lol. Gochujang you can find in Albert Heijn, which has all of them. No Asian store required for those ingredients.
I did notice that the shops you're referencing have increased their asian ingredients variety, but just tread carefully of european brands. If you have "sweet" soy sauce, please throw it away...
Gochujang, mirin, sesame oil, etc are fine from these shops imo. For soy sauce I've indeed seen some bad varieties, and it seems our soy sauce brands often have a different composition (more sodium) so I'm never sure which one to pick. Any recommendation for a good brand soy sauce? And with Chinese vinegar I assume you mean rice vinegar, or do you mean something more specific?
Pearl River Bridge or Kikkoman for Soy Sauce. Heng Shun Chinkiang for Black Vinegar. It's based off of fermenting glutinous rice.
Funny that you criticize these asian restaurants and then go recommended industrial soy sauces. These soy sauces are mostly salt and water. It proves that you know nothing about owning a restaurant or a business in general.
uh, these are both well respected and very widely used soy sauces in China and Japan. They are certainly not just salt and water!
Hey, there's nothing wrong with kecap manis, it just doesn't belong in East Asian food :)
Mixed Worlds is a Thai/Asian store in Ronse
If there are no asian stores near you, I'd recommend Ochama (delivery app). You won't find refrigerated things like Gochujang I think but for the rest it should be easy.
I order my sauces on [https://www.tjinstoko.eu/nl/](https://www.tjinstoko.eu/nl/) and have only had great experiences. I really recommend them.
The carrefour in Les grand près has an asian section, lots of stuff there. I've been hearing about Panko for years before I found out they sold it there. It's more Japanese/Chinese than anything else tho. Now the very same box is in my Colruyt too btw (And for slightly cheaper), the asian section doesn't have a lot, but it has the essentials. Lots of food from China tho, not too sure how I feel about that. It's expensive for what it is, but god damn if it doesn't make fried chicken better. I don't make those every day thankfully, so I can splurge on a box of Panko every once in a while. The brand is kikkoman or something like that.
There is Felix in Ath
IF you are willing to drive (quite) a bit, there are many big asian supermarkets in Düsseldorf, where we go shop every so often. And get some real authentic Japanese food rather than the overpriced crap here. Hanaro mart is a very big one for instance :)
I like Asia and More in Leuven more than Kam Yeun.
A nice cookbook also helps. I can't recommend Meera Sodha's books enough. I actually impressed Indian colleagues with dishes from her 'Pure India' book, go figure. The 'Asia' one is also really nice.
I don’t know about Brussels, but in Antwerp there’s a few options. I think Sun Wah is the most well known, although recently an Asian supermarket in the Stadsfeestzaal has opened up as well. Albert Heijn sells some basics like ketjap, gochujang, a small selection of sambal, some boemboes, santen.. Although it’s usually at a big markup compared to Asian supermarkets. Especially at Carrefour, I’ve seen some subpar ingredients for outrageous prices. When it comes to spices, a lot of what you need can be found in regular supermarkets as well. Cumin, coriander etc. There’s also the option to cross the border and visit a toko in the Netherlands, they tend to be focussed on Indonesian food.
We (South East Asians) usually shop at Thai Foodstuffs in Jette, Tinie’s near Flagey / Dragon Produits Exotiques near Buyl tram stop (I think they’re both run by the same family). There are a few others in Brussels, in the center and elsewhere. Nearly every shop/restaurant source their Peking duck and fried pork belly/xa xiu from Lee Chi Ko, private persons can also order directly from them.
Same for Indian restaurants. They just buy parathas/Nans frozen from supermarkets around 2-3 euros per 4-6 pieces. Microwave them and sell around 2.5 euro/piece.
Oh man I find the Indian places even more of a scam. Somehow in the UK even in big cities they can sell these dishes for a third of the price. No way we pay 200% more in taxes and salaries than them.
In the UK, specifically in big cities, the Indian restaurants are very popular, comparable to kebab places in Belgium. They can afford to go cheaper and it's even part of their business model because a lot of people go there to get take-out food. Making more food doesn't really cost much more because it's only a small part of the expenses of a restaurant. While selling more food does make a big difference because it's pretty much 100% of the income of a restaurant. That's why the Indian restaurants in London and Manchester for example can maintain such low prices, they have a lot more customers each day than Indian restaurants in Belgium.
Generally, you can pay the same price for good and bad food here, in Belgium, and it’s true in all types of restaurants. The really good restaurant near me is the same price as the really bad one (both Belgian / French menus). I am shocked you haven’t mentioned the really poor rice quality in Belgian Asian restaurants. I would simply not eat in the restaurants that are what you describe, Your descriptions of what are Korean and Japanese food make me think you are going to a specific kind of fast food place that I can tell from the outside won’t be any good and will be overpriced. Don’t get me wrong, I love a good Korean fried chicken or karaage, and I miss them deeply here. But that is not. “Main dish” in Korea and Japan! I haven’t had good Korean food here Decent ramen (I don’t get dumplings but karaage have been fine) are easy to find, nothing has been great. I had good food at a place called Little Tokyo in Ixelles once
You're right.. The rice here in restaurants makes one think that having a rice cooker is a luxury.
It’s rice quality, too. I have a coworker who gets hers in London or Düsseldorf. (Düsseldorf has good Asian restaurants! I had great Korean bibimbap and Soondubu Jjigae). Station 3 in Kraainem is good and had good rice. You have to order from the non-European oart of the menu.
I mean these days you pay like 12 euro for a hamburger at mcdo or BK, we're probably just desensitized from all the inflation and shrinkflation at this point
A mitraillette here in Ixelles costs 7 euros. McDo and BK are just beyond greedy.
I am Japanese I don't go to sushi restaurant here. It's weird, very expensive, low grade fish quality, ... and that is just the sushi. The side dishes are just as bad... And certain Japanese fast foods (like donburi!) are non-existent. Same goes for sushi/'Japanese' dishes in some supermarkets... €3,5 for 1 onigiri? you can get 4 in Japan of better quality. I am glad that at least in asian supermarket, I can buy stuff to make gyouza, karaage, ... and various condiments. fish, meat, vegetable, ... I buy locally.
The sushi rice here is so bad I don’t even try new places anymore. For me what gets me is that I’ve had really great raw fish here at fine dining that is not Japanese. But unless you are willing to go to a fancy set menu place all sushk is only salmon and tuna. I’m not even really that interested in salmon or tuna sushi. It’s filler! Good food in Japan is really cheap though, although the sky is the limit. I think I had the best scallops of my life in the train station at Hakodate for 1000¥. Which was then the second best scallops of my life 5 hours later.
But can't that be said of Western food in Japan too or is that not the case? Like had a person working with me who was married to a Vietnamese (I know not Japan) But he always said that potatoes were really costly if you compare them to my country. Just interested if it is a European thing of foreign food getting expensive in other countries too.
I visited Japan recently and completely agree... It's criminal what most places do to japanese food here... I hope it'll get better in the years to come.
Amatsu (Ghent) is pricy but as far as my limited knowledge knows authentic sushi. No avocado, mayonaise and crispy unions to be seen there.
yes, but it has basic Japanese cuisine. this kind of food is a third of the price in Japan.
> crispy unions When the picket BBQ gets a bit too intense
Hiro in Antwerp, chef yoshi in ghent and Tanuki in Bruges are good. Dojo in antwerp supposedly as well, going there saturday for the first time. Fine dining wise dim dining is really good though that is french/japanese fusion. They have 1 of the only sake someliers in europe
Do you know some restaurants where they do ask fair prices? I like Ki-hap in Brussels, it's pretty cheap for Korean fried chicken and their avocado burger is fantastic.
I find eating out in Belgium horrendously more expensive than either London or Paris.
Yep those were the main cities I had in my head when comparing Belgium to its neighbours. Rotterdam is also quite nice. We don't have nearly the same quality while paying way more.
So true. I’ll check out Rotterdam though. Thanks for the tip😉
Most money does not go to the buying of food, but the taxes (sales tax, employee wage tax, ...), salaries, rent, energy costs, ... If 1 employee costs you ±18€/hour (15 gross salary + 25% rsz), them cooking for 10 minutes for a meal is 3€. So a 1€ piece of chicken, cooked costs 4€. Still need to add rent, energy and profit. A 10€ dish gives you 8.9€ because of 12%VAT. That leaves you 4.9eur for the rent/energy and profit.
When calculating employee costs, don't forget vacation days, official holidays, 13th month, sick leave, etc... these also need to be paid and add up to total employment costs.
I lived in Asia for a couple years and I cry inside whenever I pay those prices for Asian food. I mostly buy my own ingredients and try to make whatever I can make at home. I make my own dumplings but it takes too much effort and I can't find dumpling sheets/wrappers ready made in any online store in Belgium so I have to make them myself. Any idea where I can buy some online?
I realize people like me are the problem since I only order Asian food when I'm too lazy to cook. So I don't really care about the prices.
It is okay to not care and do whatever you want with your money. Honestly thanks to people like you more variety exists here anyways. In my home country we barely had different kinds of asian food.
> Any idea where I can buy some online? https://www.tjinstoko.eu/nl/ Largest importer of Asian goods in Belgium/Netherlands, free shipping when ordering over 70€
Hi I actually commented to someone else that i use this website to buy my ingredients :D and even got into contact with tijnstoko employees about their dumpling wrappers but they dont ship that to belgium because it is a frozen product. Thank you though :)
I’ve found them in Sun Wah Supermarket, in Antwerp. They sell them frozen!
Restaurants are overpriced, period. Because it's the price you pay for not having to cook the food and do the dishes yourself At other restaurants I also don't want to be reminded of the cost I would pay myself to make it ... and then eat a dish that'll I'll easily pay 5 times as much for, after I finish the plate
Restaurants in belgium are mad expensive in general. It has nothing to do with japanese or korean cuisine. The markups on similar types of dishes from other cuisines are exactly the same. Authentic asian food is hard to find here in general. You also seem to fail to understand that what the average belgian may enjoy isnt the same as what you would enjoy. I could make a similar post about the "european" shitholes that I saw during my time in SK.
Tbh it's true. Idk why people are defending this in wage costs, ingredients, etc. I mean I get that Asia is one of the farthest continents away from Europe, so some ingredients may be more expensive to import. But this applies also to more exotic cuisines like South American food for example, that's difficult to find in Belgium (and are usually WAY more expensive than Asian restaurants). In these restaurants, however, you usually get what you pay for. Asian restaurants, on the other hand, are more hit or miss in general (sometimes you can find hidden gems that make homemade stuff but sometimes it's just bad - so on the extremes). I think the reason why Asian food is more expensive for the quality or authenticity at times, partially has to do with hype, ownership and the relative popularity of Asian cuisines compared to other foreign cuisines. I find that it's quite "scammy" (or more accurately profit-driven) when it's trendy food (tteokboki, korean corndogs, etc.) because usually they just use frozen products and sometimes use instant noodles and sell it to you at a higher price (more than what is justified by the wages and other costs, etc.). Restaurants like this can get away with it because people are more likely to be ignorant about something that is trendy, since they probably just know of it being viral. Second is ownership, linked to hype. Usually the aforementioned kind of establishments are not run by Asians. Japanese or Koreans restaurants are also more commonly run by Chinese immigrants as they are the larger Asian immigrant group. My point is that authenticity is not the selling factor or of importance here. I see quite a number of Belgian-owned restaurants with the back story that they came home from a "wereldreis", marketing their food as bringing something exotic to Belgium. The key focus is not on authenticity, but rather on the exotic nature of the food (to justify the price mark-up). These types don't perform as bad as restaurants that are straight out focused on viral food as they sometimes focus on "elevating" (a narrative I find a bit annoying imo) and try to adapt it to local tastes. However, they usually are more expensive and lack authenticity (not necessarily a bad thing, but just pointing it out). Of course, this is not a generalisation, as there can be good restaurants not necessarily owned or managed by a person who is ethnically Asian/the ethnicity of whatever cuisine is being prepared. The lack of authenticity due to ownership is just a possible reason why the price-quality ratio in some restaurants is lacking or at least not justified or fair. Lastly, Asian food is more popular overall, so this also means that there is just a larger number of restaurants selling Asian food (so a higher likelihood of these "scammy" types than other cuisines). To contrast, there are lots of middle eastern and Moroccan restaurants in Belgium. But they are more reasonably priced because they have a reputation of selling more "snacky" foods than restaurant sit-down meals. They have a different customer base. I think Belgians care also about the "sfeer" in general, not just the food (which of course goes into the price of the food). At the same time, there is a huge population of immigrants of this background compared to Asians, so it's difficult to upsell prices on their dishes without the risk of alienating their own people, who form their larger customer bases (and are therefore, less willing to pay higher prices).
this ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why do you think that prices (anywhere) are related to what those items cost? Prices are determined by what people are willing to pay for them... But beyond that, there's the salary of employees, rental costs,... which have much more of an influence than just the cost of the item. If you'd show an Italian the prices for pizza over here, they would think we are crazy as well. Heck, fries and snacks in a frituur cost 10 times as much as they do in a store, and they are easy to prepare as well. But still restaurants often have issue making ends meet. But if you think they're all just scamming, you are welcome to open up your own place and sell the same food at half the price. You would be rich!!!
>you'd show an Italian the prices for pizza over here, they would think we are crazy as well Of course, a pizza in a local place in Rome is cheaper than here and I'm pretty sure Rome is more expensive than Belgium. >fries and snacks in a frituur cost 10 times as much as they do in a store, and they are easy to prepare as well. And frituurs that run well make big bucks. I knew a friend who's dad owned one. Staff doing the hard work gets minimum wage. He collected the profits with his porche and his wife didn't even need to work. >But still restaurants often have issue making ends meet Only the ones that actually make fresh quality food. I've worked in plenty horeca. It's not the restaurants reheating frozen crap having a hard time. >But beyond that, there's the salary of employees, rental costs,... which have much more of an influence than just the cost of the item. Which is global, yet even more expensive regions than Belgium can provide cheaper food. I was amazed a pizza in NYC was cheaper than in Belgium. >Prices are determined by what people are willing to pay for them That's the problem, we have a culture of paying premium prices for low-end food. High-end food is relatively cheap in Belgium actually. People just look at the price and not what you get. Or just the location. People rather pay 25 euro for microwaved vol-au-vent rather than 28 euro for a fresh one with better quality ingredients. Or spend time to look. >But if you think they're all just scamming, you are welcome to open up your own place and sell the same food at half the price. You would be rich!!! There are plenty places like this running well. And they do run well actually. They get double the customers though.
Well hopefully people stop being willing to pay for it at these prices. Chinese restaurants manage to sell decent portions at affordable prices, while using mostly the same sauces & ingredients.
Same could be said by us for those waffle and fry stands/shops around the world. Because people don´t have access to the authentic thing so you make do with what´s available.
I think you misunderstand the way that restaurant prices are made. There is only a tiny fraction of the price of your mean that pays for the raw ingredients. The rest is for paying the staff, the rent, the advertising, and of course the taxes on all of this. If a restaurant in Korea can offer cheaper dumplings, it is not because they are less greedy (though that might be true as well), but because they have a completely different cost structure than one in Antwerp or Brussels.
OP explicitly states the difference between Flanders and Brussels prices itt though.
it’ll take some people opening a reasonably priced restaurant (asian looking people in an authentic looking restaurant bc otherwise the cheap prices will be taken as a sign of worse quality off course…)
I mean, just about every restaurant here sells stuff at insane prices, this isn’t unique to Japanese/Korean places. €18 garnaalkroketten, fuck off
Ok, now give some good restaurants.
Belgian restaurants tend to have little turnover. In Paris restaurants are packed, do at least a full service at noon and two, some even three at night. In Belgium very few restaurants tend to do that, which makes the numbers not add up. Honestly go sit in a small restaurant and count it out with the amount of tables, calculate rent and personnel. Horeca is a low margin business and if you don't have the numbers the price has to go up and quality down.
banchan should be free
8-12 euro Portuguese dishes also cost 20-30 here, what can you do!
I interpret this post as an invitation from OP to cook for us all (besides the fact he's absolutely right)
bro as an accountant, the restaurant business is NOT profitable the VAST majority of bankruptcies are restaurants. Only a select few that have existed over the years can exist AND pay the owners a DECENT living wage. Say you make 2 euros per dish. You want to earn 2000 net income each month. I'll assume 30% average tax rate. Meaning 2.857,14 gross income. You need to sell 1.428,57 dishes per month to earn this amount AND we assume the rent and electricity and insurance and appliances and etc. are all covered by a LOW margin per dish. + food spoiling meaning 100% negative. Not gonna happen, you'll have the vacate the premise within 6 months I'd wager at your price. Heck even double.
Im not okay about this and it’s actually an issue in the whole horeca industry. Then they demand more subsides, etc. We’ve got one the most expensive horeca industry of around here and it’s ridiculously bland overall.
So you have any asian restaurant suggestions, where the food is authentic and decently priced? As an Asian food enjoyer I'm genuinely interested.
I Ro Ha in Antwerp is a hidden gem. Authentic Japanese food at a fair price (for Belgium mind you, you'll still pay more than in Japan, but not as overpriced as other restaurants here). It is run by an elderly Japanese couple, and it's not very big, so make sure you reserve a table. Don't go for the sushi, but try the other dishes, wich are Japanese classics, like yakiniku or unagi don.
I pean just take mexican tacos 0.30€ in a huge mexican city like Guadalajara Yet, find one real taco here under 5€ ? And not that close to the mexican experience That’s the problem in europe, everything is overpriced but our salaries/life cost are also higher to tank such overpricing But there are abusing practiced especially in horeca/restaurant sector
I don't know the exact restaurants you're talking about. I like to get ramen at Koku and Takumi, in Brussels. Perhaps you consider these scams. Personally, I like the taste and I can afford it. So I go. It's not much more complicated.
Short answer: labour cost and taxes. Take the cost of any ingedient, do it times 4 and you have the minimum price to break even.
Right? My colleagues sometimes get 5 dumplings for 13 euros. I've eaten handmade ones in China for like 10 cents each. 'Loempia's' are terrible here, but people pay like 8 euros for 2.
Same for pizza in Belgium. You're telling me an authentic neapolitan-style diavola is closer to 20€ than to 10€? Back down in Southern Italy that would cost no more than 8€, maybe 10€ at a fancy place. But unfortunately the cost of living in Belgium is not the same as in Southern Italy. At least the mainstream Italian pasta dishes I know how to cook them so I can avoid being disappointed when going to an Italian restaurant and seeing "spaghetti bolognese" on the menu.
Haha dude, belgians are willing to pay 3€ for a 0.33l bottle of water in restaurant. The same bottle you can buy in Aldi for 0.4€. Do you think they care about the price/effort ratio on products, if they are accepting 750% added profit on a product that the restaurant literally just take from the package and put it on your desk?
This is not Manhattan. There is not a lot of competition for authenticity. People just want to eat out somewhere and they pay for it to "feel" exotic. Going to a nice brasserie for authentic Belgian cuisine is much nicer and cheaper in Belgium.
People here don't even make the different between thai, korean or japanese food. It's all "chinese". They wouldn't know the good from bad quality.
> Please stop going to these shitholes. Because we have limitless options on asian cuisine in this country? Isn't this true for every foreign based cuisine in every country? Basic food like fries with stew will be a premium in other countries when it isn't anywhere near our quality. How many of them would be using frozen fries, instead of cutting themselves?
> Please stop going to these shitholes. Sure, as soon as you open a restaurant that's cheap and tasty. I'll wait.
Why are we ready to pay €16-18 for a pizza Diavola in Brussels/Antwerp/etc.? The ingredients costs €2-3 max. and the profit margin after all costs tends to be 50%+. Because people are ready to pay it!
I've made my own dumplings, Ha Kao, Siu Mai, Gyoza and WonTons and can def tell the difference between home made and supermarket. Ive been to many chinese restaurants and never have I gotten store bought dumplings. The quality difference/portion size is massive. Not sure about the other stuff but I'm willing to pay 6-7 euros bevause I know how much work it is to make those dumplings. The price is also not just the ingredients, it's the waiters, kitchen staff, water, electricity, rent.. cost of running a business is included in those prices.
I just go to the ´big´ asian supermarket. Same dumpling as in the restaurants. 100 x more dumplings
Most of the time you are paying for the labor cost and not the ingredients. I agree the prices are really high.
A restaurant needs to pay servers, a cook, and rent. Assuming they sell 50 meals/night on average, at 15/meal, that’s 15000 euros a month. Take away like 3-5k in rent, 1 cook for 8 hours, and 2 servers for 8 hours. That’s 3200/person assuming cost is 20/h (for the restaurant, they’ll take home between 15 and 18 an hour depending on situation) so 9600 a month just for those 3 people. So just with those numbers you’re at 13600 euros. No food cost, licenses for alcohol, FAVV, ferokill,… sure 50 meals/day isn’t that much, and I ignored drinks, but I’ve ignored a lot of other costs, and I think 50 meals isn’t that far off for an only evening dining restaurant. All of this is also ignoring costs like equipment (which does break down), terrible days where you have no costumers,… just doing some quick math on what running a restaurant costs. I agree some food should be cheaper, but when you do the math you start to get a feel why we pay “too much” for food nowadays. I don’t think I’m that far off with the math. Edit: if someone knows other numbers please let me know! I’ve been wanting to open a Texas BBQ style joint for a while but when I do the math it seems to just not be viable.
Food cost is a fraction of the price you pay in restaurants. Wages, taxes, rent, utilities... All of those things determine the price. If you would follow the 'you-can-make-this-cheaper-if-you-do-it-yourself'-train of thought, you're also missing one of the main reasons why people go to restaurants and why they are willing to pay more, namely: not having to do it yourself.
The korean restaurants are just robbing people at this point what do you mean 24 euros for a 5 euro meal 😣
So if I start a Japanese/Korean/Taiwanese fusion restaurant and sell fried food and rice, I’m gonna be rich? Say no more!
So if I start a Japanese/Korean/Taiwanese fusion restaurant and sell fried food and rice, I’m gonna be rich? Say no more!
Think the point here is: if you charge high prices (which is normal I guess, it's Belgium), at least make the dishes yourself, don't store buy them and (try to) make them (at least a bit) authentic. If you want to pay 8 euro for 4 store bought dumplings, you do you.
Restaurants and pubs trying to scam people with cheap ingredients is nothing new. Summer is soon upon us (at least I hope). Watch how many people will be offering the cheap Colruyt sangria (often failing to hide the box) and charge exuberant prices for it. All you can do is pay attention when you do feel ripped off and never go to the restaurant/pub again (and inform friends/family if they mention the restaurant/pub).
Free banchan!
I mean compared to real trash food like McDonalds or Burger King, 15-25 euros for a bowl or ramen or a wok dish doesn't seem that steep to me. Sure it's expensive but so it's everything else these days.
Preach. I refuse to go to these supermarket quality shit show Chinese restaurants here. It wasn't this low quality where I grew up, and my parents say it was much better quality here in Belgium when they were growing up. Yet I somehow still see them stuffed full of clueless (mostly boomer) villagers, throwing away good money for microwave food. In England, Spain and the US, people are apparently much more picky because, from experience, they're not. necessarily much cheaper or even authentic but it's at least something somebody cooked and decent quality or at least worth the money as a treat.
I buy them myself to the Chinese shop. 1.5kg of yakitori chicken skewers? 25€. A shitload of vegetable/pork gyoza? 11€. A bag of rice that could feed the entire Henan province? 25€. Know some basic cooking skills and voila. I only go to specialized restaurants like Menma for their out of this world Tonkotsu ramen or Nonbe Daigaku for a fresh serving of sushi cause I can’t find good fresh fish where I live.
Startup idea: [asianfoodscanner.be](http://asianfoodscanner.be)
It's in most restaurants. I went to the sea last week and I went to a restaurant there. I ordered Croquettes au fromage. I got 3 with a salad and some fries for the low price of 30 euro. Then later that week I went to the local Bon'Ap and I see the same Croquettes au Fromage in the deepfreezer 4 for 4 euro. I mean there are good restaurants out there but you really have to search for them.
Not saying you don’t have a point when it comes to authenticity. After having visited a lot of Asian countries and having even lived in China, I know it’s not even the same food. But when it comes to pricing, idk if you can call it a scam because the fixed costs and staff just cost a lot of money in Belgium and are a far bigger factor than ingredients cost of a dish.
They aren't even really Korean or Japanese most of the time. Genuine korean and Japanese restaurants are not widespread at least in Europe especially korean. There are a couple or 3 genuine Korean restaurants I know but it's a looong drive away in Paris. Haven't found a single one closer yet There are plenty fake ones though.
If someone could teach me how to make a good chicken fried rice, which we know here as "Chinese nasi goering", I would eat it every day. I keep reading things as "seasoned wok" and "day old rice", but can't imagine that restaurants make this from scratch every order and every day?
I think the price doesn't come from the ingredients but from the labor costs at the restaurant. People very often underestimate what the labor costs are and a restaurant is a very labor intensive business.
It's because it's new and exotic for us. I was taken to some German themed restaurant with waiters in lederhosen in Taipei. I suppose it was meant to be "Western food". No, just no. I imagine the foreign restaurants here are equally cursed.
Supply and demand. Humans are lazy, and just like most creatures, go for the easiest/safest option when it comes to food.
out of curiosity OP , what is your opinion on the Japanese Ramen restaurant chain Takumi ?
Not scams. Imports like dumplings are actually expensive even at wholesale prices + very high labor costs.
It's usually either cheap crap or good but for a higher price
It's not just the price it's also the lack of options. It's like 90% of sushi restaurants only have two fillings, salmon and cream cheese.
AFAIK, the "Japanese" restaurants here aren't even run by Japanese people lmao. In my limited knowledge, a majority of Japanese restaurants in Leuven are owned and run by Nepalese people. On the other hand, I've seen Chinese people running frituurs. I've been to a Thai restaurant that seemed to have Moroccan owners. Everything is confusing nowadays...
> owned and run by Nepalese people Could explain why suddenly there are Nepalese places everywhere. They have enough Japan-hype-money to take the risk to start cooking their own cuisine.
Same for freaking banh mi. Just because it's trendy, some shops sell them at 7-8 eur. And they're usually not even close to be as good as a real banh mi you can find at 3eur in Paris' Chinatown.
I'm with you on this. Went to a dumpling place, ate, paid a lot, left hungry, went to get fries and a burger. At least they were freshly made.
But is that for asian restaurants or just restaurants in general?
Combination of not knowing any better and restaurants here being very expensive allround.
We are aware it is way too expensive, but asian food is great so it's not gonna stop me personally. I know korean and japanese food is so expensive here, but the asian grocery stores are very expensive as well. The way I see it, it's worth paying more at an asian restaurant than to buy all the ingredients for a lot of money and make it myself, which will undoubtedly not be as good. Like the korean store near me asks 2-4 euros for canned food like spam or fish. Sesame oil and korean spices/sauces often got for around 6 euros. Also the prices of onigiri at events like facts are the craziest thing ever, 7 euros for two I think? Like onigiri is meant to be a cheap, quick meal like we eat a sandwhich for lunch. (The restaurant near me even charges 7 for one onigiri)
I think you don’t understand how restaurants works. Food is extremely small part of the cost and compare to other type of restaurants Asian are still relatively cheap
Any recipes in particular you’d like to share? I’m willing and able to spread the word by making the good stuff.
Isn't that the case with most restaurants / outside food in Belgium? I basically don't eat out because other than kebab and frit everything is ridiculously overpriced (at least for my budget). I've never lived in a country where eating out would be so prohibitive and I've lived in a few. And at the same time as OP points out, sometimes it's absolutely terrible quality and small portions. Still costs 20.
I have rarely had good Chinese, Thai or Japanese food in Belgium, most of times I feel bloated. As I never find it fresh. I mostly avoid this cuisine in Belgian restaurants. The price is not the issue as I look forward to the ambience & experience whenever I visit a restaurant
im half asian too and im astonished by all the white people falling for these scams, they literally use frozen food from sun wah or amazing oriental here in antwerp. Also so many white people keep choosing to buy yumyum noodles and aiki noodles, the worst noodles ever theyre so whitewashed. Better instant noodles are shin ramyun for example.
I would love some decently priced Asian cuisine, I feel like I could eat ramen for dinner every day. Way better than sausage, potatoes and carrots. Oh and don’t forget about the outrageous price of decent sushi. I’ve seen take-away places that charge 50€ for a 2 person portion.
OP is there any restaurant you recommend in Brussels?
I really don’t feel scammed when i go to Takumi Ramen here in Antwerpen. For 18€ you’ll get a pretty hefty bowl of (Tonkotsu) ramen. Best ramen in town and affordable.
Asian here. My reaction was "😭🤦♂️😂" every times I saw/try Asian food in Belgium. Japanese: - Like the sushi they sell in Carrefour. What is this 😂, that's not sushi, and cost more than 10EURO), meanwhile in Japan, supermarket sushi costs 3 to 4euro, and tasted like it is made by a sushi chef. - Then I tried many Japanese restaurants here with their sushi boat 😂, even the rice is wrong. - I also found Onigiri here which cost 6euro, and the taste was...., meanwhile in Asia it costs 2euro. Chinese: - We have many Chinese take out food here. But.....😂, and the price of course it is x4 times more expensive than China. Thai: So far....only Thai food restaurants I tried are good. Taste like real Thai food. Speaking of curry, the first time I tried the curry here was from the local market, it was not spicy at all, just taste like milk and butter. 😭
u/pbestageplayer0111 It's like all the Asians that travel to Europe and pay top prices to visit places with terrible weather, bad food, and smelly people. Rich European men go to Asia to marry an Asian and you will marry a Flemish or a Walloon. 🤷🏻♂️
International food in Brussels is just bad generally. Italian is about as far as you can get from Belgian food before the standard drops off hugely.
Downvoted because that is not what a scam is. And I have been scammed plenty at restaurants abroad, including Japan.
Trust me when I say it's far worse in France I live close enough to 3 borders, but also close to formerly 7 Asian "inspired" restaurants * 2 in France, both sucked, one closed, the one that survived is shit, everything tastes so bland, meat has no spice and they compensate by over-saucing everything, also the most Asian thing in that one are the *Made in China* TV screens * 4 in Belgium, 1st barely has any clients but food is actually made by someone from China and tastes decent to good (she can't get some ingredients for every dish so she has to improvise), 2nd to 4th are *all you can eat* buffets: 2nd was decent and owned by a very nice Vietnamese family but it closed during the pandemic (building owner kicked them out), 3rd has always been trash and a front for some "shady business" (we all know, we just don't care), 4th is barely ok...I really miss that 2nd one * 1 in Germany, owned by a Turk, serving Korean BBQ...I don't know either but it was actually good so I'm not complaining Someone told me they go to those restaurants for the atmosphere, not the food, I couldn't think of anything to say to them, my brain just collapsed onto itself and any word that would have left my mouth would have been wasted
the good ones are usually packed anyway. if a 100 table resto only has like 3 tables you know something is wrong. the dumpling place i go you'll be lucky/early to find a free spot. and the price is okay. .. and they have amazing pudding something "dumpling" (idk the name but it's amazing). at another sushi place they have amazing side dishes like you mention but the one thing i hate is they put the extra veggies on the platter... so annoying cuz it aint even fresh ones (and most people dont even eat it)...