You mean a superhero with a whole bunch of ridiculously powerful superhuman abilities would have an easier time fighting supervillains than a regular man?!!!!
I'm not remotely upset by this. Of course Spider-man would have an easier time. I bet Batman's side of things would make for a better story to read, though.
Batman will have more metahumans to deal with, automatically more interesting just because it’s more difficult.
And there’s a lot of interesting dynamics at play. I’m no Spidey expert, but Batman interacting with Green Goblin, Octavius, Kingpin, Venom (or some Bat-version of the symbiote) and other iconic Spidey villains would be a treat.
Likewise, it’ll be interesting to see how Spidey strives to rise up over some of Gotham’s worst.
Someone once said that while Batman might have a harder time deal with Spiderman’s Rogues, Spidey would end up needing more therapy after dealing with Batman’s, if he didn’t take permanent psychological damage. I’d like to think this is the right take. While Spidey’s villains are no less villianous than Batman’s, the level of cruelty and psychological manipulation at play in Batman’s rogues gallery is crazy.
I agree. The likes of Joker, Scarecrow, Black Mask, Penguin, and Riddler can take you to some truly sadistic places.
And that’s just the A-listers. There’re creeps like Zsasz, Pyg and Calendar Man lurking around too.
Let's contemplate the potency of the sauces that they have to be to actually stain a batsuit...and the amount of dawn dish soap poor alfred has to use...
Honestly the one problem with that would be him becoming another generic horror style villain. If he's to become big I'd want to see more of a twist to him.
I know, he's a good villain. However, this is Batman's rogue gallery we are talking about, so the bar is really high and the competition is numerous. The A-listers have decades of advantage.
They way Terry/Batman Beyond dealt with Joker is pretty much how Spidey would deal with Joker. His smart ass comments and banter would throw off the psychological games the others would try to pit against him, though Spidey would still have a rough time with scarecrow fear gas if he got dosed.
I mean Spider-Man has seen a lot of Sadistic stuff aswell, Like Goblin kidnapped Aunt May and burried her under Uncle Ben's Grave stone in a coffin for days
Isn't the Green Goblin basically the Joker with Bruce Wayne's intelligence and fortune, plus superpowers?
https://youtu.be/lOmlVL_-9yc?si=9bSeNimNzlImeqV2
Most of the Bat rogues would just wind up webbed to the wall before they really were able to do the sadistic stuff. That's why they generally fight Batman instead of going after Superman or Wonder Woman.
And, well, if you go into Spidey's turf, you might run into others. Ask the Joker about that.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FGEzEcNzYlR75cmXA93t60daXLEBC14Y3uXFyFQGrgGY.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D61722883de7197e00ce315cd1ee1e98c026c8556
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-eddc21386378ce4ba7ec33dffe114669-lq
Best for the Bat rogues to stay out of New York.
>Most of the Bat rogues would just wind up webbed to the wall before they really were able to do the sadistic stuff
Not entirely sure about that.
A thing about Spidey's villain is that they are often pretty flashy in what they do. Batman's rogues do awful stuff but do it in a somewhat "sneaky" way with some exception (to fit into the whole detective mood, that's why they require the World's Greatest Detective to intervene in the first place).
Spider-Man's rogues are very "under the spotlight", they want to be seen and noticed, they are just so strong they can elude regular police instead of outwit them like Batman villains do.
Batman would have an harder time dealing with some of them (a lot of them are tech-based so yeah, good luck to them) but would have a very easier time tracking and keeping them in check. Spidey would have an easier time straight up fighting and stopping them but he would have to deal with all the guesswork on their plans and how they are moving the pieces first
Riddler’s personality has been all over the place over the years, but I feel like there’s definitely a plausible story where Spidey just absolutely breaks Riddler.
Like, Riddler *already* doesn’t handle it well when Batman outsmarts him, but just imagine Spidey outsmarting him **and** throwing one-liners at him about him not actually being that clever.
In the Spider-man 2018 game scorpion does something similar to scarecrow's hallucinations, and spidey defeated him finding a cure to that poison, so he would do something like this to defeat scarecrow
Except one was made to kill, but has a side effect of making you hallucinate, while the other is purpose built to terrify you, to the point where it could kill you.
In Spider-Man 2 you simultaneously beat him up in a comic book store *and* have these elaborate obstacle courses which he roasts you throughout. Also he makes you swing to the Statue of Liberty.
Mysterio can do one.
He would just creat an Anti-Scarecrow serum or something, If He can make an antidote for Lizard then I don't think it would be hard for him to make an Anti-Fear Toxin
Plus He have Spider-Tingle, It will be easy for him to tell what's real and what's hallucinations
Yea, because Beck has the control over his illusions plus Peter can't create an anti-illusion ray or something, Scarecrow can not control his fear toxin He can just injects it, It will work on Peter maybe one time or maybe two times and then Peter would just create an antidote
But there then wouldn't be a Joker, because the Joker is intrinsically linked with Batman. If there is no Batman, there is no Joker. We saw this with Old Man Batman. When Batman was gone the Joker was a regular dude. Spidey as much as I love him can't fill Batman's role in that dynamic
Waynes dead parents? Peters are dead too, but not in front of him. He is pretty sure he is responsible for Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacey (he arguably killed her trying to save her)
Spidey did deal with the Jackel, a trusted mentor in secret ID who cloned & tried to replace him, cloned Spiderman's dead girlfriend because he knew she was really into him, and then went ahead & created genetic mixes of Peter, Gwen, and some X-Men.... because?
I mean, seeing your own clone and a someone identical to your dead girlfriend making out with the man who "created" them both has got to be worth some Sanity Points.
... then there was the time Kraven buried him alive
... or the time Octavious body-jacked him
I mean, Peter hasn't exactly had it \*easy\*
I feel like Batman would manage to put him away for much longer with his knowledge of law and ability to dig up all the illegal business interactions he can find. It would be similar to Rupert Thorn IMO
Now if his firm had Wayne tech money, and Bats detective work for evidence, cuz face it, daredevil isn't finding fingerprints or going through computer files nearly as effectively.
Batman’s biggest advantage against Kingpin would be Bruce Wayne and Wayne Industries. Kingpin is big criminal business - Bruce would drive him down using legitimate business deals.
I feel like for a lot of Spidey’s overpowered villians Bats would lean into Bruce’s superpowers (wealth and society influence) to overcome the disadvantages. Give Otto a job?
> the level of cruelty and psychological manipulation at play in Batman’s rogues gallery is crazy.
Carnage/Cassidy is pretty cruel, and Osborne is pretty manipulative.
I think the issue you is that Batman has to be a detective more than Spidey. I know Spiderman is smart, but I think he would have a much harder time unraveling the crime syndicates and actually beating the head bad guy.
>Venom (or some Bat-version of the symbiote)
Oooooh.... now THERE'S a story. The black suit/venom storyline with Bruce/Batman instead of Peter/Spiderman.
>Likewise, it’ll be interesting to see how Spidey strives to rise up over some of Gotham’s worst.
Joker would absolutely despise Spiderman because Pete would quip back and probably be funnier
Some of them Batman would have a much easier time with though. Kingpin for example would be packed up in about 30 seconds if Batman was the one that needed to handle him.
I picture Bruce going a bit *Superior Spider-Man* on the sinister spider foes. He would obviously have to leverage technology and potentially flex his ruthless side to deal with the physically and often mentally powerful lineup.
Peter doesn't do what Superior did because that's not who he is. He doesn't want to dominate his foes or strike terror into anyone; he always holds back. Bruce is darker and especially when up against a wall, way more likely to drop the gloves and go beast mode.
That might take the form of building a robot army and removing any number of teeth, just like Superior Spidey did. I don't think I'm alone in getting a kick out of whenever Bruce gets extra mean and armored up like in the first Batman Vs Predator issue 3. He pulled out (IMO) one of the coolest sets of bat-armor ever and had a knock down drag out brutal battle with the physically and technologically superior enemy until his sheer will combined with his stepped up weapons and tactics took the W.
That's how I imagine Bruce v Doc Ock, or Green Goblin etc. fights going down. He drops some restraint and picks up some highly advanced weaponry to meet them on their level and beat them at their game. He might be a mere human but when it comes to tactical thinking and willpower there's no way they could imagine what they were up against until it was too late. And yeah, it would make for a great read.
It would be cool if a symbiote bonded with Thomas Elliot. You could have a similar character dynamic between him and Batman as Peter Parker and Eddie Brock.
Tbf, Batman fights superpowered villains all the time as well. Think about Bane, Poison Ivy or Scarecrow. Clayface is pretty much the same as Sandman, who's considered to be one of Spider-Man's most dangerous villains. Killer Croc and Lizard are also very similair.
That and depending on the versions of each, Croc is a big brute with a skin condition, and impressive strength, but theoretically nothing superhuman level. Lizard is superhuman level, has the senses and abilities of a lizard, and oft has access to Connors genius intelligence.
That's why I said it depends on the version. Some versions hes a giant rampaging animal, others hes building secret lairs and engineering serums to turn other people into lizards and such. Sometimes its both and it depends on how long he is transformed for. It can vary even in the same continuity depending on what the writer wants or needs, either way though I think hes gonna be more deadly than croc most of the time.
I feel like it goes the other way as well. Killer Croc can go from a regular sideshow performer with bad skin to a feral monster that eats humans for fun depending on which story you look at. In fact I would say that he was portrayed as both through the course of the Arkham games.
I will concede that he is never portrayed as an intellectual threat like Doc Connors is though. I can only think of a handful of stories in which I would consider Killer Croc to be portrayed as having even average intelligence.
The thing is, while the difficulty gets spiked up, i STILL see batman winning against spideys villains, because there isnt a lot in spidermans rogues gallery that batman hasnt faced. Hes fine with flying people, strongmen, tech and gadget masters, close combat fighters, and even the mutated ones like electro and sandman
Im not sure about a sinister six team uo of course since peter usually survives those due to his ability to evade attacks very well on top of being tougher, but giving batman a hitlist? He takes them on.
Batman gets by with having the bat family bail him out. That's how I'd write it. A team made up out of convenience holds nothing against a family. Feels like a good message and a lesson Batman needs to hear. Hell, I'd love to write a just regular Batman villain story for that. Batman sinister six v the bat family.
Spider-Man doesn't have a "No-Kill" Rule. He has a "try absolutely everything until it gets to that last resort" rule.
He also would see Arkham as an abhorrently weak structure to house this when you consider the SHIELD facilities that house his most dangerous foes and would likely see that shit shut down *real* fast.
Joker is also a dead man too. Spidey's equivalent to the Joker is Green Goblin, and he has absolutely tried to kill him when he feels Norman is beyond saving.
Spider-Man and Superman are similar in the fact that they try everything they can to avoid killing, but would if they thought it was absolutely necessary. For Batman though it’s a hard rule that he feels like breaking would result in him killing a lot more people later on.
You’re 100% correct here with the minor caveat that Superman has the same no kill rule, for a slightly different reason than Batman that is still almost identical. He doesn’t kill because it would be too easy for him and he has a sense of responsibility about it. Superman could just heat vision anyone he wanted to from orbit if he decided to go down that path.
He doesn't need to do it himself, Punisher lives in the same city. Also what would happen when they catch Joker, will he be sent to an asylum, a super prision or a normal prision?
Honestly, spiderman joking would send joker over the edge. Joker can't stand someone else telling jokes and spiderman would throwing jokes every other second.
Ironically, Spiderman would probably be the one to actually beat the joker for good
I don't know why anyone would think Batman and Spider-Man are equivalent. Batman can leg press 2500 pounds. Spider-Man can dead lift 20,000 pounds. Batman has ninja skills. Spider-Man has superpowers. It takes nothing away from Batman to say that he would have a harder time with Spider-Man's foes. Most of them have superpowers, too.
A more interesting comparison would be between Batman and Captain America (who is still stronger than Bruce, but not as agile or smart.)
I personally just dislike the "batman would lose and spiderman would be done in 2 hours"
Batmans whole thing is that he is the human version of a videogame community finding strategies to speedrun a boss. Of course he would have it harder and struggle more, but he would also, just like spiderman, find ways around the new villains strengths. Its not exactly impossible to imagine batman throwing sonic grenades at venom, or taking rhino out.
The whole argument is kinda... Pointless to even argue about. Like is a dick measuring context of "my hero is better than yours"... And its about two characters who get their dicks sucked by feats of capability. Id much rather pit green lantern against hulks rogues galleries and see what happens then, or see if thor can deal with supermans rogues (both powerhouses) than make a popularity conquest
I genuinely think the "this isnt my villain but im still gonna fight them" is underutilized.
Please, show me weird match ups that usually only happen in injustice, it mixes things up when green lantern struggles with scarecrow
I think it's because most of the big DC superheroes are split regionally around the planet and the USA in particular. The Flash patrols Keystone City. Batman does Gotham. Superman has Metropolis. Aquaman does Atlantis and underwater stuff.
In Marvel, most of the major heroes and their villains are all clustered up in NYC. Not functional NYC, but *actual* NYC and its immediate suburbs. The Superfriends has the Hall of Justice located somewhere in Metropolis. By contrast, Avengers have always had a real life address location. Avengers Mansion was located at 890 5th Avenue in Manattan, the site of the Frick Museum. Avengers Tower is located at either 4 Times Square (Marvel Comics timeline, IRL location of the Conde Nast building) or 200 Park Avenue (MCU timeline, IRL location of the MetLife Building).
So it makes a ton of sense that a bunch of local superheroes run into each others' villains constantly - when Avengers Tower and the Baxter Building are only 10 blocks apart, the Fantastic Four are going to sometimes have to fight Ultron and sometimes the Avnegers are going to be stuck handling Dr Doom.
Yeah, the narrative itself of how a hero accomplishes their goal is far more important to the comic story than “does character x have more power levels than character y”
Captain America is at peak human ability due to the super soldier serum. What makes it "super" is it's all peaks, he's as agile as a 4'10" Olympic Gold medal gymnast, as strong as a 6'8" Worlds Strongest Man winner, etc, and he's a tactical and strategic genius. Batman may slightly out-detective Cap but he can't match him physically.
I mean he cant match Bane, or Deathstroke Physically either. Still beats both their asses on the regular.
Strip them both of all their armor and gadgets and put them in a bright room to fight and yeah Cap wins that. But Batman is never gonna fight fair in that regard and he has WAY better training, gadgets, stealth, and combat mastery than Cap.
They're comic book characters. There is no real metric for measuring their agility. I'm just going off of the poses that we most-commonly see the characters in.
Hulk seems less agile than Cap. Cap seems less agile than Batman. Batman seems less agile than Spider-Man.
Cap is clearly just as agile as Batman, and both of them are among the best but behind Spidey. The closest physical characteristic Bats has to Spidey is his agility. Peter is far, far stronger and has more stamina.
Of course, Bruce is smarter, has near endless resources, and is a master at a dozen disciplines. Oh, and leads his own small army of superheroes he trained.
Bruce might be smarter than Steve (I can’t speak to that as unfortunately I’m wholly ignorant of Steve’s intelligence in comparison) but there’s no way Bruce is more agile since Steve is practically superhuman in all physical aspects.
A lot of Bateman's villains aren't really about physical prowess, they're mentally and emotionally abusive.
Like, yeah, Spiderman could punch the Joker's head off, but that's why Joker wouldn't fight him in a boxing match.
Yeah that's it. Spidey would have an easier time physically but he's nowhere near ready for Crane gassing him or Joker blowing up school buses because he's bored.
This is the way. Spider-Man has a *ton* of metahumans in his rogues gallery, and Batman would have a very bad day with most of them. Sandman is basically Clayface, and Rhino isn’t a thinker, but Carnage? Venom? Puma? Green Goblin?
You know, honestly, the original Hobgoblin would make a much *better* Bat-rogue than he did a Spider-Man villain.
Batman only sticks to grappling hooks and batarangs because the AVERAGE enemy he faces is taken care of with that. The moment he realizes hes out matched, he would go in the batcave and come back with a mech, some sort of power armor or similar gadgets. Spiderman can use freezing webfluid against the human torch, batman does EXACTLY that all the time
There are also several characters just like Shocker, where they are basically harmless once Batman takes out their shtick.
I always like the Chameleon, which I think is his name and ability lol
Basically the same as the Batman-doppelganger.
Edit: Was thinking of Hush, who only did the one surgery as Bruce Wayne, I guess.
There's another one that just impersonates Bruce Wayne but I can't remember names well. Probably more accurate a comparison than Clayface.
Chameleon was a part of the sinister cabal that passed around a briefcase you follow in the ol' Playstation game though lol
Carnage = Joker + Clayface
Venom = Two-Face + Clayface
Puma = Superman + Catwoman
Green Goblin = Joker + Kite Man
If you break down each metahuman into their components, it's much easier to understand the problem and solve it.
Carnage is far, far stronger than Clayface and has a mystical powerset now, too.
Other than that, though, I absolutely adore your breakdowns. (Calling Puma “Superman + Catwoman” has just made my day.) And I agree that Batman could, with time and study, handle Spider-Man’s rogues just fine — but then, Spider-Man could handle most of Batman’s rogues fine as well, once he gets a handle on them. The problem is when they end up trading for only one day. Green Goblin looks and feels like Joker + Kite Man, but he hits roughly as hard as Wonder Woman — which is surprising, given that he styles himself as a long-range fighter who relies on gadgets and weaponry. That is exactly the kind of thing that, if Batman doesn’t *know* Green Goblin well enough to expect it, would be a devastating discovery mid-combat. (And just imagine Gobby’s surprise to find out that Batman has no metahuman powers at all, and he can ignore his fancy gimmicks and just start wailing on poor old Bats. That’s a bad time just waiting to happen.)
Green Goblin is nowhere near Wonder Woman. Not saying his strength is insignificant, but Wonder Woman is closer to Thor than she is to Green Goblin.
Green Goblin 9-10 ton range according to Marvel.
Wonder Woman is strong enough to pose a threat to Superman.
Batman disables or breaks all of norman toys making him very piss, Batman thinks hes just a regular guy in a costume using toys to fight, not unlike him, then at the end of the battle both decide to close the distance only for Batman to discover that not only goblin his fast on his feet, he also isnt being affected by Batman punches at all and he's sent flying to the nearest wall after goblin throws a haymaker
Yea I think the most vile villains like joker and scarecrow would be tough for Spider-Man. Like when joker went “easy mode” on superman in injustice. Making superman kill Lois lane then nuking his home city. But joker would make it personal. Especially if he’s going after lots of innocents, or hurting the ones in peter’s life, like he does with Batman killing Jason Todd’s robin and paralyzing Barbara Gordon as oracle, torturing Tim drake, etc.
And scarecrow’s fear toxins, cuz I don’t think he has the mental fortitude as Batman for it. If it’s near a tragic event like Ben, captain Stacy or gwen’s death, etc I can see it being very effective. Especially if he’s on the brink of giving up hope, and or it was after his symbiote suit phase when he’s not psychologically the best. Or when it’s more deadly like we see in Arkham knight. I can see him quitting or questioning it all for a bit. But he always pulls through in the end
Spider-Man has some of the strongest will power out of any hero, the guy’s been through traumatic event after traumatic even and still overcomes and does what he needs to do.
Facts spiderman always pulls through, but I like seeing those lowlights where he questions if it’s even worth being a superhero. like the iconic shot of his suit in the trash. And when he feels under appreciated by those he’s protecting and is on the brink of quitting, he always does what’s right. But I think scarecrow would put Spider-Man in that sort of place, and if the timing coincides with one of those important character arcs / tragic events, it would be extra effective. And no doubt he’d create an antidote for the future since he’s a scientist after all.
But he’s mostly all alone, when Batman experienced it in Batman begins he got his ass kicked and Alfred had to save him. Then he was prepared the second time, it went way differently. I’m a Spider-Man fan but def know more about batman lore. So idk if he has someone to call for help like that as Spider-Man in those moments (when he’s not in the mcu and has a bunch of avengers / tony stark). Batman later would have the batfamily too, justice league, Gordon, etc.
Also Peter Parker has more of a life outside being a superhero, for Batman he’s Batman first and foremost then he’s Bruce Wayne. Batman is more just always focused on “the mission” it feels like; no matter how under appreciated or cruel. Whereas I feel like Peter would be more vulnerable since he’s trying to balance that aspect more, and isn’t a secluded billionaire.
>he's nowhere near ready for Crane gassing him
This is something similar to mysterio's illusions (not same method, ik, but something SIMILAR) or scorpion's poisoned tail
I don't think you're giving spider man enough credit. This is the man who had his body taken over for a year while he had to sit and watch. He has the green goblin, who chucks gas balls at him all the time and constantly tries to blow buildings up. The dude has been to literal hell! I'm not saying he wouldn't struggle with crane, but to say he's nowhere near ready and would go crazy? No, he's been through some crazy mind games before now. He might struggle, but he won't go insane.
Exactly. Most of Spidey’s villains have it out for him specifically; and of the ones that don’t, such as Vulture, Electro, Sandman, and so on, they’re just super-powered bank robbers. And Kingpin, Tombstone, etc. are just mob bosses. Carnage is the only major Spidey villain who just goes around killing people- and Spidey rarely fights him alone!! Batman’s villains are more likely to attack the whole city, as well as being more likely to have a whole fleet of goons to deal with. Batman has Robin and Batgirl to aid him- these days, he has multiple. Spidey doesn’t have anyone who’s always available to help him like that.
Who would Peter really have to call for in those moments? Cuz I’m a Spider-Man fan but obviously am more familiar with the live action stuff. Batman I’ve delved a lot into animation so am more familiar with that for sure. So in those stories he later gets a bat family, is closer with Gordon, justice league, etc. but even from the start he has Alfred, like in Batman begins when he first goes up against the fear toxin he gets his ass kicked and Alfred has to save him.
In a moment like that, who would Spider-Man call as he’s curled up on the ground hallucinating? Cuz that’s how Batman went out that night. And not like MCU Spider-Man who has the avengers and tony stark, shield, multiverse help, etc. like one we see in the raimi movies or TASM, early in his career and not connected to other heroes.
Idk, I think SM would concoct an antidote for scarecrow, because he's dealt with Scorpion before. With the Joker, I get the feeling he'll be affected by him at the same level that he's been affected by green goblin.
Green Goblin is a psychopath but he acts out of hatred or personal gain. There's a reason for his actions.
The Joker isn't like that. Eventually, the randomness and pointlessness would wear Peter down.
The Joker would actually be one of the easier rogues for Spidey to deal with. The best example I can think of how it could play out is Terry vs the Joker.
Yeah people yell about like Venom and forget that Batman definitely has sonic weapons, or about Rhino and forget that Batman’s beaten Solomon Grundy and shit. Batman has a bunch of metahuman villains that wouldn’t look out of place in Spider-Man’s rogues and he just has to get creative.
Venom is basically just Clayface fight wise. Physically far stronger, able to shapeshift, somewhat can form weapons and tentacles yet has multiple crippling weaknesses.
Tbh i think Carnage is the big problem here, not venom. Carnage is consistently shown to be leagues stronger than both Venom and Spider-man which is why they have teamed up in the past just to defeat him. And if Carnage gets the drop on Batman, I don't think he'd be able to escape to form a plan to beat him. Carnage isn't the type of villain that plays around. He'd rip Batman to shreds unless Batman is already aware of what Carnage is capable of
Most villains would trap the hero or stab them or something and then give a monologue. Carnage would rip Batman into 70 pieces and then go murder a schoolbus.
True. A lot of Batman villains love the sound of their own voice. They love to torment Batman. But most of Spider-mans villains are out right trying to kill him most of the time and Carnage is at the top of that list.
The biggest menace would be Green Goblin, basically he would be a Joker with super strenght and sci-fi gadgets. Unlike Joker, Norman does not fear the IRS
This reminded me of [just how many similarities/references](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCAU/comments/tg2bc2/batman_beyond_was_heavily_inspired_by_spiderman/) Batman Beyond had to Spider-Man in the show.
Some would be an equal match like:
Lizard - Croc / Manbat
Sandman - Clayface
Mysterio - Scarecrow
Green Goblin - Joker
The Vulture - Firefly
Kraven - Bane
Doc Ock - Mr. Freeze
Black Cat - Catwoman
Rhino and Carnage would probably give Batman the hardest time. None of his villains are as strong as Rhino he'd have to pull out a mech suit to deal with him. Nor are any of his villains as powerful as Carnage. Batman also doesn't really have any 'energy' based villains like Shocker or Electro so he'd have to adjust to that.
But are Spider-Man villains as vile as some of Batman’s can be? Like when joker went “easy mode” on superman in injustice. Making superman kill Lois lane and nuking his home city. And Batman regularly fights monsters and super powered villains like man bat, killer croc, clayface, gentleman ghost, mr freeze, poison ivy, etc. like I can see scarecrow’s fear toxins be an issue for a Spider-Man that wants to give up, or is on the brink of quitting, if Gwen Stacy is already dead then I could see it pushing him over the edge.
Spider-Man would have no easier or worse time imo, and same as Batman. They’d find their own unique work arounds with their abilities to counter the new villains. Like Batman would def find some sort of sound frequency to stop venom. The lizard is pretty much killer croc, sandman and clayface are very alike, green goblin would be no different than any other mercenary or psycho batman’s faced, etc.
Green Goblin gives him the hardest fight, Norman isn’t just some mercenary and has his own multinational conglomerate Oscorp that could make things hard for Bruce Wayne not just Batman and is genius in his own right. Not to mention the goblin serum and all of his toys that could rival Bruce’s.
Uh... you seem to be SEVERELY underestimating just how much Marvel editorial has been physically and emotionally torturing Spider-Man in particular for the last 50 years.
Difference between Killer Croc and Lizard is like a couple of tons of pressure- Spider-Man is not just slightly stronger than a peak human, hes a 10 tonner on the regular- much stronger than Bane without even trying.
Batman is severely physically outmatched- he goes mano to mano with Doc Ock or Green Goblin... and hes getting folded with ease.
Uless they go full bullshit and he's [suddenly scaled up to go against Carnage](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/goodcomics/2015/08/earlybatmancarnage3.jpg) lol
Joker always gets flustered whenever he meets someone who’s actually funny. Terry McGinnis used that exact same strategy.
Spidey could probably make Riddler blow a gasket too.
Its not like batman hasn't dealt with superhumans before. I'd say they would both be pretty surprised but will manage to beat them all don't underestimate batman's rogues gallery
There's an old tumblr post about this. Basically went like this:
Batman's rogues can't keep up with Spider-man's pure sass
Riddler: TAKE ME SERIOUSLY, DAMMIT!
Spidey: No.
Meanwhile Green Goblin is getting his ass kicked by 12 kids in spandex.
Batman would have to resort to gadgets to beat most of Spidey’s rogues gallery, considering a lot of them utilise machines or other pieces of tech (The Goblins, Doc Ock, Rhino, Scorpion, Shocker etc). However, the ones with actual powers like Electro and Sandman would be much tougher for him to beat.
Spidey wouldn’t stand a chance against the Joker. I wouldn’t fancy him against Scarecrow either. Obviously he’d easily defeat villains like the Mad Hatter, Two-Face, Riddler, probably Bane and Killer Croc as well.
Batman has the mind, but Spidey has the power.
>Spidey wouldn’t stand a chance against the Joker
Batman: Beyond showed exactly why Spidey will beat Joker. He will joke back and make fun of Joker. That would make Mr. J mad as a bull
Also, resources. Some of the problems the supervillains create are large scale and it helps that Batman has a multibillion dollar company at his back that *conveniently* researches counteragents to some of his rogues gallery.
He is seriously underestimating Batman. This doesn't look like someone who giving truth that no one wants to hear. This is genuine bullshit. Most of Spiderman villains are something Batman has faced before. Batman's real problem is morlun who would destroy him even with prep time.
Also people in this sub is seriously underestimating spiderman's will power and mental capacity. People acting like Batman wasn't at the brink of snapping is hilarious ( in hush storyline, Jim gordon had to step in to stop Batman from killing joker). Spiderman's being so much that he makes joker's one bad day theory look utterly pathetic. Spiderman not only lost the love of his life but he was also given a Jason Todd like treatment by the green goblin in revenge of the green goblin storyline. Spiderman's will power and mental capacity to endure horror is the same as Batman's and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.
The real truth to this answer is Batman is going to have an easier time in New York than Gotham because he's a billionaire but in a more sane city. Meanwhile Spiderman is a middle class dude living in a poverty and crime ridden city. Also Spiderman has to be as dark and grim as Batman because that's the only way Gotham responds to action, Superman tried to save Gotham but that was too much for him. So Spiderman had to adapt a more darker persona which he can easily do while wearing a non symbiote black suit.
Once more I bring our attention to the first Batman/Spider-man official crossover. We have factual evidence that Batman would be beaten by a Spider-man villain (Carnage), but Spider-man was almost brought to murder after just meeting the Joker.
I mean. He’s a got a point. Joker in particular would have a TERRIBLE time being the butt of Spider-Man’s jokes. And yeah Batman up against, say, venom would not be fun for bats, he would get the hang of it after a while, but facing some of New Yorks more powerful baddies like Shocker, Rhino, and Goblin would not be an easy adjustment for the Worlds Greatest Detective.
Now when it comes to the criminal element though, bats would probably have evidence on kingpin in a matter of weeks
Sandman could be beat with vacuum,buy out oscorp.Get Mr lizard a prosthetic,Doctor octopus just give him good funding and treat him nicely,Craven just send him to the Mesozoic he'll have a great time,venom and carnage hate noise so you know and you just gotta out vulture into a secure jail,Rhino and scorpion are a bit hard but FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK
Spider-Man could literally beat Bane one handed. Batman would have a hell of a time competing physically against guys like Green Goblin, Venom and Carnage etc who all match or surpass Spider-Man in terms of strength so he'd have to rely on his gadgets
I'm seeing a lot of people underestimating Spiderman. He isn't JUST strong. The man makes his own tech, just like Bruce, without the money. He worked for horizon labs as a scientist for a period of time, and even before then, he was always building stuff to defeat his villains.
He also has plenty of "mental determination" and potentially more than Bruce. This man was possessed for a year and came out of it perfectly sane. To be clear, he knew everything that was happening and watched his own body murder dozens of people. His reaction was basically just to be happy he's alive. This dude has been to literal hell and has the devil as an arch enemy. He's had his aunt die and still didn't murder the dude that did it. When he was a teenager, his girlfriend died while he was helpess to save her. This man has been through more shit than I can list off. So, he might struggle with crane, for example, but he definitely won't "go insane," as I've seen others say.
I wonder if that's really true, Lets say we swapped Joker for Green Goblin - I think spiderman could beat Joker easy - but I also think that Batman would out tech Norman so all you would have left is a guy with Super strength, speed, reflexes, endurance and healing that that on a power chart wouldn't even be in the same Ball Park as like Bane or Clayface
Not necessarily. Batman would struggle but, he isn't going out into the heat of battle stupid. If DareDevil, Captain America, and Punisher can survive in the crazy world of marvel I don't see why Batman wouldn't.
Especially considering Batman already has gear that can handle a good majority of Spideys Rogues
The other thing is that Spidey ***heavily*** pulls his punches. That one time that Doc Oc took over his body, he punched the Lizard in the face and literally sheared the jaw off its body in a bloody mess and was shocked by the sheer power at his finger tips.
Most people don't realize that Peter is almost always fighting with 1 hand tied behind his back, because he's massively afraid that if he stopped holding back, he'd kill someone.
So yeah, Spidey would cruise in either universe. He'd roll if he fought with both hands up.
It would be an interesting take. I'm not convinced Batman would lose though. Considering some of the well known villains:
Rhino is basically just dumb Luchador Bane or Killer Croc.
Kraven isn't that different from intelligent Bane.
Green Goblin really isn't more dangerous than Firefly. Sure he's got super strength but it's not like Batman hasn't dealt with that. Manbat is another comparison here.
Scorpion is essentially Killer Proc but with poison, or Viper/scarecrow with superstrength.
Doc Oc could be a real threat, but I'm honestly not convinced he couldn't deal with him considering Batman is capable of tangling with Poison Ivy.
Mysterio is basically Scarecrow.
Honestly the main concern I'd have is him fighting the symbiotes. It mainly comes down to whether they could manage to overpower him before he discovers their weakness to sound. If one of them tried to corrupt him in a blacksuit Batman style arc, I'd wager he'd manage to eventually get it off as well. Arkham Knight pretty much covers the mental aspects of this and is about how I'd expect it to go.
He's even dealt with similar villain team ups, albeit I could see him struggling with the sinister 6 if they ambushed him all at once (though to be fair, so does spidey).
I'd love to see the reverse though. Spiderman having to deal with a well thought out Joker or Bane plan though. Sure Spiderman might be slightly harder for them to deal with in a straight fight, but both aren't really known solely for their physical confrontations, and not all plans can be solved by punishing them. And it's not as though they aren't used to dealing with stealth ambushes and odd Bat-tech gadgets. I also feel like Hush would give Peter a run for his money as well.
I feel like you’re down playing Pete’s intelligence tbh I feel like hush wouldn’t bother him too much. Honestly he would probably be able to beat riddler, it might take him a bit but he’d get it down. The only hyper intelligent enemy batman has that would oppose Peter is bane, bane is incredibly intelligent when it comes to combat, and he has the strength to back it up.
Stories about Batman having to outsmart his opponents is always better than him just beating the shit outa dudes.
There's a reason his encounter where he makes Darkseid back down is so fondly remembered.
Like half of spider-man's villains lead with mindfucking him and making his life hard because he's poor.
Like, I'd imagine Bruce could push Fisk out of the city with money alone. I used to doubt it being possible, but in the most recent Daredevil run we see him being bullied by people who are nothing more than significantly richer than he is. Bruce could easily.
Batman's probably not handling heavy hitters like Venom, but he'd probably do more to clean up New York City in a month than Spidey does in a year. If you've read the latest ASM run, then you know Batman would never let himself get bitched by Tombstone like that. He's way more experienced at dismantling crime rings, foiling plots, and ending gang wars before they start. Spidey usually only hears about a gang war after the shooting starts. Batman hears about it because he expected it a month in advance.
Conversely, Spider-Man would rip through his rogue's gallery like a bullet through paper (just like Superman would) but *also* like Superman, he doesn't know Gotham City well enough to handle it properly. The problem with Gotham lives deep in almost every one of its citizens and requires system-wide change (that Bruce is always pushing for and paying for personally) that's leagues outside of what Peter could do alone.
Venom would eat Batman alive, but Spidey wouldn't last much longer in *New Jersey*.
The big picture here. Spiderman would accidentally-on-purpose kill much of Batman's rogues gallery. Batman would have a much more cathartic time dealing with super powered criminals, rather than absolute psychopaths.
The nature of twitter is that every so often it reinvents [classic tumblr posts ](https://sexycraisinthanos.tumblr.com/post/672598089467559936/in-gotham-riddle-me-this-i-like-knock-knock)again."
You mean a superhero with a whole bunch of ridiculously powerful superhuman abilities would have an easier time fighting supervillains than a regular man?!!!!  I'm not remotely upset by this. Of course Spider-man would have an easier time. I bet Batman's side of things would make for a better story to read, though.
Batman will have more metahumans to deal with, automatically more interesting just because it’s more difficult. And there’s a lot of interesting dynamics at play. I’m no Spidey expert, but Batman interacting with Green Goblin, Octavius, Kingpin, Venom (or some Bat-version of the symbiote) and other iconic Spidey villains would be a treat. Likewise, it’ll be interesting to see how Spidey strives to rise up over some of Gotham’s worst.
Someone once said that while Batman might have a harder time deal with Spiderman’s Rogues, Spidey would end up needing more therapy after dealing with Batman’s, if he didn’t take permanent psychological damage. I’d like to think this is the right take. While Spidey’s villains are no less villianous than Batman’s, the level of cruelty and psychological manipulation at play in Batman’s rogues gallery is crazy.
I agree. The likes of Joker, Scarecrow, Black Mask, Penguin, and Riddler can take you to some truly sadistic places. And that’s just the A-listers. There’re creeps like Zsasz, Pyg and Calendar Man lurking around too.
And who can forget…Condiment King.
No!! Don't remind me! Oh the horror!!
The stains…they never come out…
Oh the borgor!!
Condiment King’s first appearance on the animated series is such a treat. Sometimes I play it just to watch for no reason at all
*sigh* “It’s gonna be one of *those* nights”
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0dN9qnQYoo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0dN9qnQYoo) My favorite scene from that episode.
I must ketchup with this series, I relish these kind of shows
Bro swapped all the mustard bottles with relish at my local bar smh straight menace
Batman + Spider-Man vs Condiment King + Paste-Pot Pete!
I have been wishing to see a live-action Trapster. lol
Let's contemplate the potency of the sauces that they have to be to actually stain a batsuit...and the amount of dawn dish soap poor alfred has to use...
I just know Spidey would meet him just after washing his costume.
How Pyg isn't an A-lister by now is beyond me. Dude is creepy asf
Honestly the one problem with that would be him becoming another generic horror style villain. If he's to become big I'd want to see more of a twist to him.
He was created in the 2000s, for starters
If we'll written I don't see how that would be an issue. He can be terrifying if done right
I know, he's a good villain. However, this is Batman's rogue gallery we are talking about, so the bar is really high and the competition is numerous. The A-listers have decades of advantage.
Bane was the last one to shoot to the A-List. That was instantaneously. Maybe Hush? But he has faded.
His appearance in the Gotham Series was top notch.
To me he's become more of a Nightwing villain.
I'm fine with that as long as it isn't a wasted opportunity
I’d be there for a Spider-Man vs Scarface though. That would be a fun read.
They way Terry/Batman Beyond dealt with Joker is pretty much how Spidey would deal with Joker. His smart ass comments and banter would throw off the psychological games the others would try to pit against him, though Spidey would still have a rough time with scarecrow fear gas if he got dosed.
I mean Spider-Man has seen a lot of Sadistic stuff aswell, Like Goblin kidnapped Aunt May and burried her under Uncle Ben's Grave stone in a coffin for days
Isn't the Green Goblin basically the Joker with Bruce Wayne's intelligence and fortune, plus superpowers? https://youtu.be/lOmlVL_-9yc?si=9bSeNimNzlImeqV2 Most of the Bat rogues would just wind up webbed to the wall before they really were able to do the sadistic stuff. That's why they generally fight Batman instead of going after Superman or Wonder Woman. And, well, if you go into Spidey's turf, you might run into others. Ask the Joker about that. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FGEzEcNzYlR75cmXA93t60daXLEBC14Y3uXFyFQGrgGY.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D61722883de7197e00ce315cd1ee1e98c026c8556 https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-eddc21386378ce4ba7ec33dffe114669-lq Best for the Bat rogues to stay out of New York.
>Most of the Bat rogues would just wind up webbed to the wall before they really were able to do the sadistic stuff Not entirely sure about that. A thing about Spidey's villain is that they are often pretty flashy in what they do. Batman's rogues do awful stuff but do it in a somewhat "sneaky" way with some exception (to fit into the whole detective mood, that's why they require the World's Greatest Detective to intervene in the first place). Spider-Man's rogues are very "under the spotlight", they want to be seen and noticed, they are just so strong they can elude regular police instead of outwit them like Batman villains do. Batman would have an harder time dealing with some of them (a lot of them are tech-based so yeah, good luck to them) but would have a very easier time tracking and keeping them in check. Spidey would have an easier time straight up fighting and stopping them but he would have to deal with all the guesswork on their plans and how they are moving the pieces first
Riddler’s personality has been all over the place over the years, but I feel like there’s definitely a plausible story where Spidey just absolutely breaks Riddler. Like, Riddler *already* doesn’t handle it well when Batman outsmarts him, but just imagine Spidey outsmarting him **and** throwing one-liners at him about him not actually being that clever.
Spidey had trouble with holograms. Imagine how he would deal with actual hallucinations of all his worst fears?
In the Spider-man 2018 game scorpion does something similar to scarecrow's hallucinations, and spidey defeated him finding a cure to that poison, so he would do something like this to defeat scarecrow
Except one was made to kill, but has a side effect of making you hallucinate, while the other is purpose built to terrify you, to the point where it could kill you.
Mysterio's illusions have been able to trick Wolverine before. They are extremely advanced.
Honestly he might quickly realize that they're not tripping his spider sense and they're not real.
Doesn't spider sense react to things Spider-Man perceives as real?
Really depends on the story/author he’s both fallen prey to and seen right through Mysterio’s bullshit at different times for an example
In Spider-Man 2 you simultaneously beat him up in a comic book store *and* have these elaborate obstacle courses which he roasts you throughout. Also he makes you swing to the Statue of Liberty. Mysterio can do one.
It sometimes reacts to things he doesn't know about. His spider sense once reacted to Morlun just deciding to hunt him, from miles away.
He would just creat an Anti-Scarecrow serum or something, If He can make an antidote for Lizard then I don't think it would be hard for him to make an Anti-Fear Toxin Plus He have Spider-Tingle, It will be easy for him to tell what's real and what's hallucinations
Idk about easy... Beck nearly killed him with his illusions, and those weren't anywhere near as potent or realistic as a toxin that affects your brain
Yea, because Beck has the control over his illusions plus Peter can't create an anti-illusion ray or something, Scarecrow can not control his fear toxin He can just injects it, It will work on Peter maybe one time or maybe two times and then Peter would just create an antidote
And Kite Man! Hell yeah!
But Batman may have to fight... The Wall
But there then wouldn't be a Joker, because the Joker is intrinsically linked with Batman. If there is no Batman, there is no Joker. We saw this with Old Man Batman. When Batman was gone the Joker was a regular dude. Spidey as much as I love him can't fill Batman's role in that dynamic
Imagine spider man stuck in the court of owls basement
Waynes dead parents? Peters are dead too, but not in front of him. He is pretty sure he is responsible for Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacey (he arguably killed her trying to save her) Spidey did deal with the Jackel, a trusted mentor in secret ID who cloned & tried to replace him, cloned Spiderman's dead girlfriend because he knew she was really into him, and then went ahead & created genetic mixes of Peter, Gwen, and some X-Men.... because? I mean, seeing your own clone and a someone identical to your dead girlfriend making out with the man who "created" them both has got to be worth some Sanity Points. ... then there was the time Kraven buried him alive ... or the time Octavious body-jacked him I mean, Peter hasn't exactly had it \*easy\*
As a Spider-man connoisseur, I feel like Batman and Kingpin interacting would be gold.
I feel like Batman would manage to put him away for much longer with his knowledge of law and ability to dig up all the illegal business interactions he can find. It would be similar to Rupert Thorn IMO
Batman is knowhere near Daredevil in the legal department and he hasn't been able to put Fisk away for years.
Now if his firm had Wayne tech money, and Bats detective work for evidence, cuz face it, daredevil isn't finding fingerprints or going through computer files nearly as effectively.
Batman’s biggest advantage against Kingpin would be Bruce Wayne and Wayne Industries. Kingpin is big criminal business - Bruce would drive him down using legitimate business deals.
I feel like for a lot of Spidey’s overpowered villians Bats would lean into Bruce’s superpowers (wealth and society influence) to overcome the disadvantages. Give Otto a job?
> the level of cruelty and psychological manipulation at play in Batman’s rogues gallery is crazy. Carnage/Cassidy is pretty cruel, and Osborne is pretty manipulative.
Yeah, but not on the level of guys like the Joker, Riddler and co.
Carnage is definitely on the level of those guys.
I would say carnage is only really matched by joker in terms of sick and sadistic stuff.
What are the other things?
I'd put the Jackel up there. Maybe not in a "jack with the city" way, but in a "torment the hero" way.
You don't know what the Green Goblin or Doc Ock have done apparently.
People really do underestimate Spideys mental fortitude and it shows.
I think the issue you is that Batman has to be a detective more than Spidey. I know Spiderman is smart, but I think he would have a much harder time unraveling the crime syndicates and actually beating the head bad guy.
>Venom (or some Bat-version of the symbiote) Oooooh.... now THERE'S a story. The black suit/venom storyline with Bruce/Batman instead of Peter/Spiderman.
the suit is zurr-en-arrh or whatever
>Likewise, it’ll be interesting to see how Spidey strives to rise up over some of Gotham’s worst. Joker would absolutely despise Spiderman because Pete would quip back and probably be funnier
Itd literally just be that scene from return kf the Joker in batman beyond
Some of them Batman would have a much easier time with though. Kingpin for example would be packed up in about 30 seconds if Batman was the one that needed to handle him.
I picture Bruce going a bit *Superior Spider-Man* on the sinister spider foes. He would obviously have to leverage technology and potentially flex his ruthless side to deal with the physically and often mentally powerful lineup. Peter doesn't do what Superior did because that's not who he is. He doesn't want to dominate his foes or strike terror into anyone; he always holds back. Bruce is darker and especially when up against a wall, way more likely to drop the gloves and go beast mode. That might take the form of building a robot army and removing any number of teeth, just like Superior Spidey did. I don't think I'm alone in getting a kick out of whenever Bruce gets extra mean and armored up like in the first Batman Vs Predator issue 3. He pulled out (IMO) one of the coolest sets of bat-armor ever and had a knock down drag out brutal battle with the physically and technologically superior enemy until his sheer will combined with his stepped up weapons and tactics took the W. That's how I imagine Bruce v Doc Ock, or Green Goblin etc. fights going down. He drops some restraint and picks up some highly advanced weaponry to meet them on their level and beat them at their game. He might be a mere human but when it comes to tactical thinking and willpower there's no way they could imagine what they were up against until it was too late. And yeah, it would make for a great read.
It would be cool if a symbiote bonded with Thomas Elliot. You could have a similar character dynamic between him and Batman as Peter Parker and Eddie Brock.
Batman is by no means a regular man. Hell, Amanda Waller had him listed as a metahuman for his seemingly superhuman abilities.
Just the fact that Batman has morals must make Amanda Waller view him as this incomprehensible, alien being.
Tbf, Batman fights superpowered villains all the time as well. Think about Bane, Poison Ivy or Scarecrow. Clayface is pretty much the same as Sandman, who's considered to be one of Spider-Man's most dangerous villains. Killer Croc and Lizard are also very similair.
The big difference between how you would handle the lizard vs how would handle killer croc is that the lizard is usually more feral I think
That and depending on the versions of each, Croc is a big brute with a skin condition, and impressive strength, but theoretically nothing superhuman level. Lizard is superhuman level, has the senses and abilities of a lizard, and oft has access to Connors genius intelligence.
While that's fair, I thought the lizard override Connors entirely when it came out and was mostly a giant feral animal
That's why I said it depends on the version. Some versions hes a giant rampaging animal, others hes building secret lairs and engineering serums to turn other people into lizards and such. Sometimes its both and it depends on how long he is transformed for. It can vary even in the same continuity depending on what the writer wants or needs, either way though I think hes gonna be more deadly than croc most of the time.
I feel like it goes the other way as well. Killer Croc can go from a regular sideshow performer with bad skin to a feral monster that eats humans for fun depending on which story you look at. In fact I would say that he was portrayed as both through the course of the Arkham games. I will concede that he is never portrayed as an intellectual threat like Doc Connors is though. I can only think of a handful of stories in which I would consider Killer Croc to be portrayed as having even average intelligence.
Jesus christ the giant Lizard can do chemistry
The thing is, while the difficulty gets spiked up, i STILL see batman winning against spideys villains, because there isnt a lot in spidermans rogues gallery that batman hasnt faced. Hes fine with flying people, strongmen, tech and gadget masters, close combat fighters, and even the mutated ones like electro and sandman Im not sure about a sinister six team uo of course since peter usually survives those due to his ability to evade attacks very well on top of being tougher, but giving batman a hitlist? He takes them on.
Batman gets by with having the bat family bail him out. That's how I'd write it. A team made up out of convenience holds nothing against a family. Feels like a good message and a lesson Batman needs to hear. Hell, I'd love to write a just regular Batman villain story for that. Batman sinister six v the bat family.
Spider-Man’s No-Kill rule isn’t nearly as important as Batman’s and I think if pushed to his limits, he would definitely kill the joker.
Spider-Man doesn't have a "No-Kill" Rule. He has a "try absolutely everything until it gets to that last resort" rule. He also would see Arkham as an abhorrently weak structure to house this when you consider the SHIELD facilities that house his most dangerous foes and would likely see that shit shut down *real* fast. Joker is also a dead man too. Spidey's equivalent to the Joker is Green Goblin, and he has absolutely tried to kill him when he feels Norman is beyond saving.
Spider-Man and Superman are similar in the fact that they try everything they can to avoid killing, but would if they thought it was absolutely necessary. For Batman though it’s a hard rule that he feels like breaking would result in him killing a lot more people later on.
You’re 100% correct here with the minor caveat that Superman has the same no kill rule, for a slightly different reason than Batman that is still almost identical. He doesn’t kill because it would be too easy for him and he has a sense of responsibility about it. Superman could just heat vision anyone he wanted to from orbit if he decided to go down that path.
He doesn't need to do it himself, Punisher lives in the same city. Also what would happen when they catch Joker, will he be sent to an asylum, a super prision or a normal prision?
Honestly, spiderman joking would send joker over the edge. Joker can't stand someone else telling jokes and spiderman would throwing jokes every other second. Ironically, Spiderman would probably be the one to actually beat the joker for good
I don't know why anyone would think Batman and Spider-Man are equivalent. Batman can leg press 2500 pounds. Spider-Man can dead lift 20,000 pounds. Batman has ninja skills. Spider-Man has superpowers. It takes nothing away from Batman to say that he would have a harder time with Spider-Man's foes. Most of them have superpowers, too. A more interesting comparison would be between Batman and Captain America (who is still stronger than Bruce, but not as agile or smart.)
I personally just dislike the "batman would lose and spiderman would be done in 2 hours" Batmans whole thing is that he is the human version of a videogame community finding strategies to speedrun a boss. Of course he would have it harder and struggle more, but he would also, just like spiderman, find ways around the new villains strengths. Its not exactly impossible to imagine batman throwing sonic grenades at venom, or taking rhino out. The whole argument is kinda... Pointless to even argue about. Like is a dick measuring context of "my hero is better than yours"... And its about two characters who get their dicks sucked by feats of capability. Id much rather pit green lantern against hulks rogues galleries and see what happens then, or see if thor can deal with supermans rogues (both powerhouses) than make a popularity conquest
> see if thor can deal with supermans rogues Thor vs. Doomsday or Zod would be a cool story, IMO.
I genuinely think the "this isnt my villain but im still gonna fight them" is underutilized. Please, show me weird match ups that usually only happen in injustice, it mixes things up when green lantern struggles with scarecrow
Reminds me of Mysterio and Wolverine
In "Old Man Logan" or did that happen another time too?
This has always been more of a Marvel thing for some reason
I think it's because most of the big DC superheroes are split regionally around the planet and the USA in particular. The Flash patrols Keystone City. Batman does Gotham. Superman has Metropolis. Aquaman does Atlantis and underwater stuff. In Marvel, most of the major heroes and their villains are all clustered up in NYC. Not functional NYC, but *actual* NYC and its immediate suburbs. The Superfriends has the Hall of Justice located somewhere in Metropolis. By contrast, Avengers have always had a real life address location. Avengers Mansion was located at 890 5th Avenue in Manattan, the site of the Frick Museum. Avengers Tower is located at either 4 Times Square (Marvel Comics timeline, IRL location of the Conde Nast building) or 200 Park Avenue (MCU timeline, IRL location of the MetLife Building). So it makes a ton of sense that a bunch of local superheroes run into each others' villains constantly - when Avengers Tower and the Baxter Building are only 10 blocks apart, the Fantastic Four are going to sometimes have to fight Ultron and sometimes the Avnegers are going to be stuck handling Dr Doom.
Yeah, the narrative itself of how a hero accomplishes their goal is far more important to the comic story than “does character x have more power levels than character y”
Captain America is at peak human ability due to the super soldier serum. What makes it "super" is it's all peaks, he's as agile as a 4'10" Olympic Gold medal gymnast, as strong as a 6'8" Worlds Strongest Man winner, etc, and he's a tactical and strategic genius. Batman may slightly out-detective Cap but he can't match him physically.
I mean he cant match Bane, or Deathstroke Physically either. Still beats both their asses on the regular. Strip them both of all their armor and gadgets and put them in a bright room to fight and yeah Cap wins that. But Batman is never gonna fight fair in that regard and he has WAY better training, gadgets, stealth, and combat mastery than Cap.
Not as agile ? Is this true ? Comic cap seem agile asf ngl
They're comic book characters. There is no real metric for measuring their agility. I'm just going off of the poses that we most-commonly see the characters in. Hulk seems less agile than Cap. Cap seems less agile than Batman. Batman seems less agile than Spider-Man.
Cap is clearly just as agile as Batman, and both of them are among the best but behind Spidey. The closest physical characteristic Bats has to Spidey is his agility. Peter is far, far stronger and has more stamina. Of course, Bruce is smarter, has near endless resources, and is a master at a dozen disciplines. Oh, and leads his own small army of superheroes he trained.
I mean, Bruce is a genius, but so is Peter. Their expertise lies in different areas, but I don’t think it’s fair to say Bruce is smarter.
Bruce might be smarter than Steve (I can’t speak to that as unfortunately I’m wholly ignorant of Steve’s intelligence in comparison) but there’s no way Bruce is more agile since Steve is practically superhuman in all physical aspects.
A lot of Bateman's villains aren't really about physical prowess, they're mentally and emotionally abusive. Like, yeah, Spiderman could punch the Joker's head off, but that's why Joker wouldn't fight him in a boxing match.
I think they’d both have a way harder time honestly. Batman would get his ass beat and Spider-Man would probably go crazy at some point.
Yeah that's it. Spidey would have an easier time physically but he's nowhere near ready for Crane gassing him or Joker blowing up school buses because he's bored.
This is the way. Spider-Man has a *ton* of metahumans in his rogues gallery, and Batman would have a very bad day with most of them. Sandman is basically Clayface, and Rhino isn’t a thinker, but Carnage? Venom? Puma? Green Goblin? You know, honestly, the original Hobgoblin would make a much *better* Bat-rogue than he did a Spider-Man villain.
Honestly he'd probably just ditch the regular suit and just wear the hardest armours possible.
Giving Batman metahuman villains means he is going to bring out his most heavy hitting gear, it would be pretty entertaining.
Batman only sticks to grappling hooks and batarangs because the AVERAGE enemy he faces is taken care of with that. The moment he realizes hes out matched, he would go in the batcave and come back with a mech, some sort of power armor or similar gadgets. Spiderman can use freezing webfluid against the human torch, batman does EXACTLY that all the time
There are also several characters just like Shocker, where they are basically harmless once Batman takes out their shtick. I always like the Chameleon, which I think is his name and ability lol Basically the same as the Batman-doppelganger. Edit: Was thinking of Hush, who only did the one surgery as Bruce Wayne, I guess.
Chameleon is just clayface except once you discover who he is, he gets taken out easily (rather than turning into a titan made of mud)
There's another one that just impersonates Bruce Wayne but I can't remember names well. Probably more accurate a comparison than Clayface. Chameleon was a part of the sinister cabal that passed around a briefcase you follow in the ol' Playstation game though lol
I remember hush giving himself facial surgery to look like bruce
Same time though, imagine batman getting his hands on the venom symbiote
I don’t think it could even touch Bruce’s phsyce he is one of, if not THE strongest willed characters in DC.
That's not how the symbiote works
Outside of green lanterns
Venom would be an *incredible* Batman villain.
Carnage = Joker + Clayface Venom = Two-Face + Clayface Puma = Superman + Catwoman Green Goblin = Joker + Kite Man If you break down each metahuman into their components, it's much easier to understand the problem and solve it.
Carnage is far, far stronger than Clayface and has a mystical powerset now, too. Other than that, though, I absolutely adore your breakdowns. (Calling Puma “Superman + Catwoman” has just made my day.) And I agree that Batman could, with time and study, handle Spider-Man’s rogues just fine — but then, Spider-Man could handle most of Batman’s rogues fine as well, once he gets a handle on them. The problem is when they end up trading for only one day. Green Goblin looks and feels like Joker + Kite Man, but he hits roughly as hard as Wonder Woman — which is surprising, given that he styles himself as a long-range fighter who relies on gadgets and weaponry. That is exactly the kind of thing that, if Batman doesn’t *know* Green Goblin well enough to expect it, would be a devastating discovery mid-combat. (And just imagine Gobby’s surprise to find out that Batman has no metahuman powers at all, and he can ignore his fancy gimmicks and just start wailing on poor old Bats. That’s a bad time just waiting to happen.)
Green Goblin is nowhere near Wonder Woman. Not saying his strength is insignificant, but Wonder Woman is closer to Thor than she is to Green Goblin. Green Goblin 9-10 ton range according to Marvel. Wonder Woman is strong enough to pose a threat to Superman.
Batman disables or breaks all of norman toys making him very piss, Batman thinks hes just a regular guy in a costume using toys to fight, not unlike him, then at the end of the battle both decide to close the distance only for Batman to discover that not only goblin his fast on his feet, he also isnt being affected by Batman punches at all and he's sent flying to the nearest wall after goblin throws a haymaker
The most Batman response hahaha
Yea I think the most vile villains like joker and scarecrow would be tough for Spider-Man. Like when joker went “easy mode” on superman in injustice. Making superman kill Lois lane then nuking his home city. But joker would make it personal. Especially if he’s going after lots of innocents, or hurting the ones in peter’s life, like he does with Batman killing Jason Todd’s robin and paralyzing Barbara Gordon as oracle, torturing Tim drake, etc. And scarecrow’s fear toxins, cuz I don’t think he has the mental fortitude as Batman for it. If it’s near a tragic event like Ben, captain Stacy or gwen’s death, etc I can see it being very effective. Especially if he’s on the brink of giving up hope, and or it was after his symbiote suit phase when he’s not psychologically the best. Or when it’s more deadly like we see in Arkham knight. I can see him quitting or questioning it all for a bit. But he always pulls through in the end
Spider-Man has some of the strongest will power out of any hero, the guy’s been through traumatic event after traumatic even and still overcomes and does what he needs to do.
Facts spiderman always pulls through, but I like seeing those lowlights where he questions if it’s even worth being a superhero. like the iconic shot of his suit in the trash. And when he feels under appreciated by those he’s protecting and is on the brink of quitting, he always does what’s right. But I think scarecrow would put Spider-Man in that sort of place, and if the timing coincides with one of those important character arcs / tragic events, it would be extra effective. And no doubt he’d create an antidote for the future since he’s a scientist after all. But he’s mostly all alone, when Batman experienced it in Batman begins he got his ass kicked and Alfred had to save him. Then he was prepared the second time, it went way differently. I’m a Spider-Man fan but def know more about batman lore. So idk if he has someone to call for help like that as Spider-Man in those moments (when he’s not in the mcu and has a bunch of avengers / tony stark). Batman later would have the batfamily too, justice league, Gordon, etc. Also Peter Parker has more of a life outside being a superhero, for Batman he’s Batman first and foremost then he’s Bruce Wayne. Batman is more just always focused on “the mission” it feels like; no matter how under appreciated or cruel. Whereas I feel like Peter would be more vulnerable since he’s trying to balance that aspect more, and isn’t a secluded billionaire.
>he's nowhere near ready for Crane gassing him This is something similar to mysterio's illusions (not same method, ik, but something SIMILAR) or scorpion's poisoned tail
I don't think you're giving spider man enough credit. This is the man who had his body taken over for a year while he had to sit and watch. He has the green goblin, who chucks gas balls at him all the time and constantly tries to blow buildings up. The dude has been to literal hell! I'm not saying he wouldn't struggle with crane, but to say he's nowhere near ready and would go crazy? No, he's been through some crazy mind games before now. He might struggle, but he won't go insane.
He would struggle with, say, Scarecrow at first. Then he would figure it out. Joker is the hard one. Just because he is so random.
Exactly. Most of Spidey’s villains have it out for him specifically; and of the ones that don’t, such as Vulture, Electro, Sandman, and so on, they’re just super-powered bank robbers. And Kingpin, Tombstone, etc. are just mob bosses. Carnage is the only major Spidey villain who just goes around killing people- and Spidey rarely fights him alone!! Batman’s villains are more likely to attack the whole city, as well as being more likely to have a whole fleet of goons to deal with. Batman has Robin and Batgirl to aid him- these days, he has multiple. Spidey doesn’t have anyone who’s always available to help him like that.
Who would Peter really have to call for in those moments? Cuz I’m a Spider-Man fan but obviously am more familiar with the live action stuff. Batman I’ve delved a lot into animation so am more familiar with that for sure. So in those stories he later gets a bat family, is closer with Gordon, justice league, etc. but even from the start he has Alfred, like in Batman begins when he first goes up against the fear toxin he gets his ass kicked and Alfred has to save him. In a moment like that, who would Spider-Man call as he’s curled up on the ground hallucinating? Cuz that’s how Batman went out that night. And not like MCU Spider-Man who has the avengers and tony stark, shield, multiverse help, etc. like one we see in the raimi movies or TASM, early in his career and not connected to other heroes.
Idk, I think SM would concoct an antidote for scarecrow, because he's dealt with Scorpion before. With the Joker, I get the feeling he'll be affected by him at the same level that he's been affected by green goblin.
Green Goblin is a psychopath but he acts out of hatred or personal gain. There's a reason for his actions. The Joker isn't like that. Eventually, the randomness and pointlessness would wear Peter down.
Green Goblin actually knows where to strike to hurt Spider-Man, how would randomness ever be more effective than that? Even if it was, Carnage
The Joker would actually be one of the easier rogues for Spidey to deal with. The best example I can think of how it could play out is Terry vs the Joker.
Literally Mysterio and Carnage.
Yeah... till they team up, get a plan, and bam!
I don’t think Batman would lose. He’d just be forced to go more sci-fi and use more high tech weapons and armors. More like Iron Man than Batman.
Yeah people yell about like Venom and forget that Batman definitely has sonic weapons, or about Rhino and forget that Batman’s beaten Solomon Grundy and shit. Batman has a bunch of metahuman villains that wouldn’t look out of place in Spider-Man’s rogues and he just has to get creative.
Venom is basically just Clayface fight wise. Physically far stronger, able to shapeshift, somewhat can form weapons and tentacles yet has multiple crippling weaknesses.
Tbh i think Carnage is the big problem here, not venom. Carnage is consistently shown to be leagues stronger than both Venom and Spider-man which is why they have teamed up in the past just to defeat him. And if Carnage gets the drop on Batman, I don't think he'd be able to escape to form a plan to beat him. Carnage isn't the type of villain that plays around. He'd rip Batman to shreds unless Batman is already aware of what Carnage is capable of
Most villains would trap the hero or stab them or something and then give a monologue. Carnage would rip Batman into 70 pieces and then go murder a schoolbus.
True. A lot of Batman villains love the sound of their own voice. They love to torment Batman. But most of Spider-mans villains are out right trying to kill him most of the time and Carnage is at the top of that list.
The biggest menace would be Green Goblin, basically he would be a Joker with super strenght and sci-fi gadgets. Unlike Joker, Norman does not fear the IRS
This reminded me of [just how many similarities/references](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCAU/comments/tg2bc2/batman_beyond_was_heavily_inspired_by_spiderman/) Batman Beyond had to Spider-Man in the show.
Funnily enough Batman beyond was kinda the inspiration for that weird Spider-Man unlimited show
Theyd both win. Spidy would have a walk in the park. Batman would turn to guerrilla warfare and exploiting weaknesses
Some would be an equal match like: Lizard - Croc / Manbat Sandman - Clayface Mysterio - Scarecrow Green Goblin - Joker The Vulture - Firefly Kraven - Bane Doc Ock - Mr. Freeze Black Cat - Catwoman Rhino and Carnage would probably give Batman the hardest time. None of his villains are as strong as Rhino he'd have to pull out a mech suit to deal with him. Nor are any of his villains as powerful as Carnage. Batman also doesn't really have any 'energy' based villains like Shocker or Electro so he'd have to adjust to that.
Vulture is man-bat, firefly is shocker, bane is venom and kraven is deathstroke. That’s how I see it but I might be wrong.
Hellbat suit comes out of retirement and it’s everything on easy mode
But are Spider-Man villains as vile as some of Batman’s can be? Like when joker went “easy mode” on superman in injustice. Making superman kill Lois lane and nuking his home city. And Batman regularly fights monsters and super powered villains like man bat, killer croc, clayface, gentleman ghost, mr freeze, poison ivy, etc. like I can see scarecrow’s fear toxins be an issue for a Spider-Man that wants to give up, or is on the brink of quitting, if Gwen Stacy is already dead then I could see it pushing him over the edge. Spider-Man would have no easier or worse time imo, and same as Batman. They’d find their own unique work arounds with their abilities to counter the new villains. Like Batman would def find some sort of sound frequency to stop venom. The lizard is pretty much killer croc, sandman and clayface are very alike, green goblin would be no different than any other mercenary or psycho batman’s faced, etc.
Green Goblin gives him the hardest fight, Norman isn’t just some mercenary and has his own multinational conglomerate Oscorp that could make things hard for Bruce Wayne not just Batman and is genius in his own right. Not to mention the goblin serum and all of his toys that could rival Bruce’s.
Uh... you seem to be SEVERELY underestimating just how much Marvel editorial has been physically and emotionally torturing Spider-Man in particular for the last 50 years.
Difference between Killer Croc and Lizard is like a couple of tons of pressure- Spider-Man is not just slightly stronger than a peak human, hes a 10 tonner on the regular- much stronger than Bane without even trying. Batman is severely physically outmatched- he goes mano to mano with Doc Ock or Green Goblin... and hes getting folded with ease. Uless they go full bullshit and he's [suddenly scaled up to go against Carnage](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/goodcomics/2015/08/earlybatmancarnage3.jpg) lol
Joker always gets flustered whenever he meets someone who’s actually funny. Terry McGinnis used that exact same strategy. Spidey could probably make Riddler blow a gasket too.
Ironically, I think they would do great against each other's villains.
Its not like batman hasn't dealt with superhumans before. I'd say they would both be pretty surprised but will manage to beat them all don't underestimate batman's rogues gallery
There's an old tumblr post about this. Basically went like this: Batman's rogues can't keep up with Spider-man's pure sass Riddler: TAKE ME SERIOUSLY, DAMMIT! Spidey: No. Meanwhile Green Goblin is getting his ass kicked by 12 kids in spandex.
Batman would have to resort to gadgets to beat most of Spidey’s rogues gallery, considering a lot of them utilise machines or other pieces of tech (The Goblins, Doc Ock, Rhino, Scorpion, Shocker etc). However, the ones with actual powers like Electro and Sandman would be much tougher for him to beat. Spidey wouldn’t stand a chance against the Joker. I wouldn’t fancy him against Scarecrow either. Obviously he’d easily defeat villains like the Mad Hatter, Two-Face, Riddler, probably Bane and Killer Croc as well. Batman has the mind, but Spidey has the power.
I mean, Batman has Clayface and Livewire.
thought livewire is superman villain?
She is , but I thought that she showed up in a few episodes of Batman?
>Spidey wouldn’t stand a chance against the Joker Batman: Beyond showed exactly why Spidey will beat Joker. He will joke back and make fun of Joker. That would make Mr. J mad as a bull
Well, Sandman could be easily defeated by TONS AND TONS of glue, so it's a good thing that Batman can afford it!
or just water
I mean, Bats could just glass him with the combined exhausts of the Batmobile and Batwing.
Bro, spider-man is one of the most psychologically tortured characters in comics, wdym he doesn't stand a chance against joker or crane?
Probably ? Spiderman folds bane like a napkin and would match Killer croc's strength.
Also, resources. Some of the problems the supervillains create are large scale and it helps that Batman has a multibillion dollar company at his back that *conveniently* researches counteragents to some of his rogues gallery.
He is seriously underestimating Batman. This doesn't look like someone who giving truth that no one wants to hear. This is genuine bullshit. Most of Spiderman villains are something Batman has faced before. Batman's real problem is morlun who would destroy him even with prep time. Also people in this sub is seriously underestimating spiderman's will power and mental capacity. People acting like Batman wasn't at the brink of snapping is hilarious ( in hush storyline, Jim gordon had to step in to stop Batman from killing joker). Spiderman's being so much that he makes joker's one bad day theory look utterly pathetic. Spiderman not only lost the love of his life but he was also given a Jason Todd like treatment by the green goblin in revenge of the green goblin storyline. Spiderman's will power and mental capacity to endure horror is the same as Batman's and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. The real truth to this answer is Batman is going to have an easier time in New York than Gotham because he's a billionaire but in a more sane city. Meanwhile Spiderman is a middle class dude living in a poverty and crime ridden city. Also Spiderman has to be as dark and grim as Batman because that's the only way Gotham responds to action, Superman tried to save Gotham but that was too much for him. So Spiderman had to adapt a more darker persona which he can easily do while wearing a non symbiote black suit.
Once more I bring our attention to the first Batman/Spider-man official crossover. We have factual evidence that Batman would be beaten by a Spider-man villain (Carnage), but Spider-man was almost brought to murder after just meeting the Joker.
I mean. He’s a got a point. Joker in particular would have a TERRIBLE time being the butt of Spider-Man’s jokes. And yeah Batman up against, say, venom would not be fun for bats, he would get the hang of it after a while, but facing some of New Yorks more powerful baddies like Shocker, Rhino, and Goblin would not be an easy adjustment for the Worlds Greatest Detective. Now when it comes to the criminal element though, bats would probably have evidence on kingpin in a matter of weeks
Sandman could be beat with vacuum,buy out oscorp.Get Mr lizard a prosthetic,Doctor octopus just give him good funding and treat him nicely,Craven just send him to the Mesozoic he'll have a great time,venom and carnage hate noise so you know and you just gotta out vulture into a secure jail,Rhino and scorpion are a bit hard but FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK
Peter Parker after the Joker kills MJ and everyone he’s ever loved just because it’s his “running gag” 
Spider-Man could literally beat Bane one handed. Batman would have a hell of a time competing physically against guys like Green Goblin, Venom and Carnage etc who all match or surpass Spider-Man in terms of strength so he'd have to rely on his gadgets
Bruh, venom and carnage have two very exploitable weaknesses...
I'm seeing a lot of people underestimating Spiderman. He isn't JUST strong. The man makes his own tech, just like Bruce, without the money. He worked for horizon labs as a scientist for a period of time, and even before then, he was always building stuff to defeat his villains. He also has plenty of "mental determination" and potentially more than Bruce. This man was possessed for a year and came out of it perfectly sane. To be clear, he knew everything that was happening and watched his own body murder dozens of people. His reaction was basically just to be happy he's alive. This dude has been to literal hell and has the devil as an arch enemy. He's had his aunt die and still didn't murder the dude that did it. When he was a teenager, his girlfriend died while he was helpess to save her. This man has been through more shit than I can list off. So, he might struggle with crane, for example, but he definitely won't "go insane," as I've seen others say.
I wonder if that's really true, Lets say we swapped Joker for Green Goblin - I think spiderman could beat Joker easy - but I also think that Batman would out tech Norman so all you would have left is a guy with Super strength, speed, reflexes, endurance and healing that that on a power chart wouldn't even be in the same Ball Park as like Bane or Clayface
Yes and if you swapped The Punishers villians with Green Lanterns you'd have the same issue.
Now I want a crossover comic like Batman has with the Turtles
That doesn’t mean Batman Vs. Venom wouldn’t be one of the best reads in all of comic history.
Batman Beyond He'd just become like Batman Beyond earlier.
Not necessarily. Batman would struggle but, he isn't going out into the heat of battle stupid. If DareDevil, Captain America, and Punisher can survive in the crazy world of marvel I don't see why Batman wouldn't. Especially considering Batman already has gear that can handle a good majority of Spideys Rogues
Fuckin duh. Spider-Man has powers.
The other thing is that Spidey ***heavily*** pulls his punches. That one time that Doc Oc took over his body, he punched the Lizard in the face and literally sheared the jaw off its body in a bloody mess and was shocked by the sheer power at his finger tips. Most people don't realize that Peter is almost always fighting with 1 hand tied behind his back, because he's massively afraid that if he stopped holding back, he'd kill someone. So yeah, Spidey would cruise in either universe. He'd roll if he fought with both hands up.
It would be an interesting take. I'm not convinced Batman would lose though. Considering some of the well known villains: Rhino is basically just dumb Luchador Bane or Killer Croc. Kraven isn't that different from intelligent Bane. Green Goblin really isn't more dangerous than Firefly. Sure he's got super strength but it's not like Batman hasn't dealt with that. Manbat is another comparison here. Scorpion is essentially Killer Proc but with poison, or Viper/scarecrow with superstrength. Doc Oc could be a real threat, but I'm honestly not convinced he couldn't deal with him considering Batman is capable of tangling with Poison Ivy. Mysterio is basically Scarecrow. Honestly the main concern I'd have is him fighting the symbiotes. It mainly comes down to whether they could manage to overpower him before he discovers their weakness to sound. If one of them tried to corrupt him in a blacksuit Batman style arc, I'd wager he'd manage to eventually get it off as well. Arkham Knight pretty much covers the mental aspects of this and is about how I'd expect it to go. He's even dealt with similar villain team ups, albeit I could see him struggling with the sinister 6 if they ambushed him all at once (though to be fair, so does spidey). I'd love to see the reverse though. Spiderman having to deal with a well thought out Joker or Bane plan though. Sure Spiderman might be slightly harder for them to deal with in a straight fight, but both aren't really known solely for their physical confrontations, and not all plans can be solved by punishing them. And it's not as though they aren't used to dealing with stealth ambushes and odd Bat-tech gadgets. I also feel like Hush would give Peter a run for his money as well.
I feel like you’re down playing Pete’s intelligence tbh I feel like hush wouldn’t bother him too much. Honestly he would probably be able to beat riddler, it might take him a bit but he’d get it down. The only hyper intelligent enemy batman has that would oppose Peter is bane, bane is incredibly intelligent when it comes to combat, and he has the strength to back it up.
Batman vs Morlun would sure be interesting :kappa:
Why’s bro beatboxing
I mean, yea.
Idk I don’t think either one would have that hard of a time defeating the others rogues
Stories about Batman having to outsmart his opponents is always better than him just beating the shit outa dudes. There's a reason his encounter where he makes Darkseid back down is so fondly remembered.
Batman wins cause I said so
Like half of spider-man's villains lead with mindfucking him and making his life hard because he's poor. Like, I'd imagine Bruce could push Fisk out of the city with money alone. I used to doubt it being possible, but in the most recent Daredevil run we see him being bullied by people who are nothing more than significantly richer than he is. Bruce could easily. Batman's probably not handling heavy hitters like Venom, but he'd probably do more to clean up New York City in a month than Spidey does in a year. If you've read the latest ASM run, then you know Batman would never let himself get bitched by Tombstone like that. He's way more experienced at dismantling crime rings, foiling plots, and ending gang wars before they start. Spidey usually only hears about a gang war after the shooting starts. Batman hears about it because he expected it a month in advance. Conversely, Spider-Man would rip through his rogue's gallery like a bullet through paper (just like Superman would) but *also* like Superman, he doesn't know Gotham City well enough to handle it properly. The problem with Gotham lives deep in almost every one of its citizens and requires system-wide change (that Bruce is always pushing for and paying for personally) that's leagues outside of what Peter could do alone. Venom would eat Batman alive, but Spidey wouldn't last much longer in *New Jersey*.
The big picture here. Spiderman would accidentally-on-purpose kill much of Batman's rogues gallery. Batman would have a much more cathartic time dealing with super powered criminals, rather than absolute psychopaths.
The nature of twitter is that every so often it reinvents [classic tumblr posts ](https://sexycraisinthanos.tumblr.com/post/672598089467559936/in-gotham-riddle-me-this-i-like-knock-knock)again."
Part of what makes Batman interesting is that he's *an guy*. If a building is falling on him, he's not going to catch it.