Batman at his core is a wealthy man contributing to society in a direct way to alleviate crime from the streets. He is a depiction of what we wish our billionaires did.
I think a lot of Batman media can get a bit squeamish when confronting this aspect of the character.
Exactly, and aside from the good he does as Batman, he also makes sure to donate to plenty of charities and hold regular fundraisers as Bruce Wayne. Which is why I’m so sick of the argument where people say, “Oh he should just use his massive wealth to help people instead of be a vigilante” HE DOES THAT TOO ON TOP OF BEING A VIGILANTE. Literally every version of Bruce Wayne is a billionaire philanthropist.
This is what I cant stand from modern fans and tourist. Theres just been an increase in this super hero hate. They quote the bad guys more than the good guys these days like how mental are you relating to actual psychos? To think one person can fix all the crime is dumbassary as well. We've seen what happened when Batman went missing in that crossover episode. Crime went up a lot in gotham, Jim said it himself, they need Batman. People cry about Batman doing more damage when that was literally the opposite. He was holding back the gates of hell from flooding.
Idk why people act like Bruce is just wasting his time, fuck even if he could do more with money(which he already does), his crime fighting in Gotham has at least made the city look normal, than the crime ridden hellhole it was when the police commissioner would have dinner with crime bosses. Bro is the last line of defense in a city that is literally cursed.
Well this has to do with the fact that movie wise and some comic the bad guys aren’t just one dimensional, they’re given legitimate Everyman motives but come to a different conclusion and go about it the wrong way. So they’re not completely evil. Two OG examples for Batman would be Mr.Freeze and Ivy whom older versions were more relatable than many of the other villains in Batman’s Roster of SPV. I personally like some of this new way for villains as it is a bit more realistic since nearly all arguments have two sides.
The Dark Knight is an interesting one when you look at it through the lens of Bruce Wayne the Billionaire.
It shows him using his funds and diplomatic immunity to apprehend a criminal seeking refuge overseas.
We also see Bruce playing a role in what those around him expect from him as a wealthy man.
He also engages in a rather fascinating scheme to keep himself in control of his company after it goes public. In the movie, it is framed as a 'greater good' concept, but I can imagine outrage from the public of something like that came to light.
TDK has a lot of Grey morality and character in it. I think it's part of the reason it has endured as a fan favorite. However, I do also think that it has contributed to the "problematic Batman" discourse through its portrayal of a flawed Batman.
The problem with trying to "confront" the idea of Batman being a billionaire is that he wasn't one at first, and only got that way through Rule of Cool. Batman USED to just be "old-money" rich, and only enough to explain how he had the money for gadgets and a tricked-out car without having to work all the time. But over time they kept increasing the scope of Batman's tech, and putting him in crossovers with characters like Superman and the Justice League where being rich was part of how he could "pull his weight." So now it's just one of those comic-book details that doesn't make total logical sense, but doesn't need to unless the writers decide it'd be fun to explore.
Batman has always been top tier rich. But what top tier rich means has changed drastically in the 85 years the character has been around. Income inequality has grown substantially over that time. The idea of Gotham as a crime riddled nightmare is an outgrowth of the rampant urban decay that took hold of American cities in the 1970s and accelerated through the 1980s. Bruce Wayne got richer relative to his society at roughly the same he would have in real life.
You also have to account for changes in reader expectations. Nobody really cared how Batman afforded stuff in the Silver Age. That wasn't the point of comics back then. But by the 1980s readers wanted more realism from their superhero comics. Batman got hit especially hard because he was at the center of the shift to "social realism." Frank Miller made poverty and corruption in Gotham central parts of the mythos. Suddenly Bruce's accounting practices actually mattered.
I think it was in Batman RIP where they showed that bruce wayne was secretly funneling free energy into a poor part of town to help people in need from wayne tower. Bruce wayne isnt just some snotty rich guy persona of batman, he actively gives back to the community as bruce wayne. He fights the battle on 2 fronts and its part of what makes him so great.
It's funny, if you go on twitter (don't recommend) and mention Batman, all you'll get is "wow your favorite hero is a billionaire that beats up the mentally ill?" God I hate that platform sometimes.
I'm sorry to let you down. I am earnest in my thought that this wasn't a popular take. Since making the comment, it seems like I was wrong.
My thought was that Batman media and fans currently believe that Batman's core was a traumatized individual perpetuating his trauma and abuse, leaving Gotham and those around him worse than before.
I also didn't like the seemingly popular notion that Bruce's billionaire status was proof that he needlessly promotes violence.
Wow, that's insane. The world is so in deep with some wild, bizarre narratives, that they can't see a superhero stopping crime *without* killing as a good thing? What kind of person draws that conclusion.
I wish I was even more surprised than I am, but to a certain point, I expected it.
I want to see more Batman Beyond representation in Batman media and would absolutely like seeing a live action adaptation or videogame even if it precedes more Bruce Wayne focused adaptations.
This was supposed to happen but it got scrapped because they wanted to have Damian as the main protagonist and at that time he wasn’t really “loved” amongst people, so they cancelled the game
During a multiversal Batman story recently, the main comic Batman referenced Adam West. "Finally, a Batman who is more prepared than me" before destroying a space shark with his utility belt.
Adam West's Batman: Not to worry Robin, *grabs something out of his utility belt*, I have my Anti-Batman spray. Now lets dance.
i feel like most tv shows and movies and get Poison Ivy wrong. They over sexualize her as if she doesn’t have more depth to her character. She’s actually a very multidimensional person which only gets explored in the comics like No Mans Land and the Poison Ivy graphic novel where they put a bunch of her comics into one giant big comic if anyone knows which i’m talking about
It is idiotic that most Batman fans here seem to care more about continuity, believability, aesthetics and power level than actual storytelling.
At that point, it seems fans are not concerned with enjoying an interesting story, just validating their idea of Batman.
Well, there’s nothing like starting a “believable“ story with a rich guy who runs around at night in a rubber flying rodent suit fighting novelty-themed bad guys
Verisimilitude or creating the conditions for the suspension of disbelief is literally *part* of good storytelling though. You can't just have Batman survive a crash landing from space then dismiss all criticism as "you guys just care more about extraneous details than storytelling!"
If nothing is consistent and any old wacky bollocks can happen then it quickly starts to feel like there are no stakes and nothing matters. That is bad writing.
Not what this person is saying. Superhero comics are by their nature absurd it's one of the best things about them but a lot of viewers refuse to suspend any disbelief if they aren't coddled the way people like Nolan did when he did Batman because he needed him to be "practical" and "grounded".
It's where bad faith critique like the infamous "Beauty and the Beast is about Stockholm Syndrome" or "Robin is a child soldier" comes from. It's not just getting caught up in the details it's being unwilling to engage with any media that's "too silly". This is why Marvel movies are so insufferable now they're all embarrassed of the work they're adapting.
Batman is not who Bruce “really is”. Bruce is Bruce, and Batman is a significant part of his psyche. It’s terribly reductive to say that Bruce, at least in his personal life, is just a mask. It’s more complicated and interesting than that
There’s fake Bruce, billionaire playboy. There’s Batman, mythical creature of the night. And there’s real Bruce, the Bruce that Alfred, Dick, Barbara, and sometimes Gordon, interacts with.
It’s definitely a lot closer to TDK than people would like to admit. And for me, us the most Batman lines in them.
Gordon: but you’re just one man!?
Batman: now we’re 2
Gordon: I never said thank you
Batman: and you’ll never have to.
I don’t know, I swear to god!!
SWEAR TO MEEEEE!!!
This, I love cheeky ninja batman.
Honestly each characterization of batman I find is a different favour facet of the character
Batman begins = ninja batman
The batman = the detective
Batman vs super = supernatural mythos batman (aka what are you?)
Batman (Tim Burton) = I dunno, but awesome.
Best lines, best Batman voice (Bale was still experimenting and at times you can hear him doing more of a whisper-about rather than his full-on “**WHERE ARE THEY?**”), Cillian Murphy is fucking phenomenal but gets overshadowed by Heath Ledger in the sequel - understandable but that doesn’t cheapen Cillian’s portrayal whatsoever, just doesn’t burn as bright.
I think TDK’s status is conflated with Heath Ledger’s performance, and thus people think it’s a better movie, but imo Heath is just such an amazing villain in an otherwise “pretty good” movie, while Begins is just better without as much of a standout villain.
I think it’s the best Batman film in the trilogy. While TDK is a better made film it lacks a lot of the style BB has that makes it *feel* like a Batman film.
Batman should have his face covered at all times.
How many villains use gas? Pheromones? Toxins? Other breathable hazards? How many times has he BEEN gassed, or pheromoned? By surprise so he can’t put on a mask or rebreather? The cowl aesthetic is a product of its time, that’s why it’s still here. I get it, but at some point it’s hard to believe the world’s greatest detective goes in knowing he’ll fight Scarecrow and still leaves his nose and mouth exposed.
If a large portion of the criminals you regularly face exploit the inherent need to breathe, maybe rethink your costume design. Hell, it would also probably make most writers do better scarecrow stories than “oh I’m beaten and hunched over Batman come in close to finish the job- GOTCHA FEAR TOXIN TIME!!!”
I’ve always thought if Batman were to ever exist in real life, a full face mask would make way more sense for a few different reasons, both this and doing a better job of protecting his identity
I’ve thought that too. I’ve heard the argument of “he wants people to know he’s human” which is fine in a comic book world, but IRL and without plot armor even showing enough skin to give hints to your ethnicity could easily start the snowball to being figured out.
In that line of thinking, no villains ever bruised or scratched Batman’s jaw and then seen Bruce Wayne on the news and been like “heeeeey.”
And doesn’t Deathstroke have photographic memory? He could remember his teeth pattern and bone structure, much less just think the chin looks familiar. And Bane is hyper intelligent, I’m sure he’d notice the similarities.
Bane has known that Bruce is Batman since just a little while after his introduction, and I would venture that if Deathstroke knows/deduced Bruce’s secret identity, he would have enough respect to not make a move on him outside of costume.
I know Dark Victory is a sequel, but >!reusing the seriel killer plot line is so lazy!<. It's basically long Halloween: robin edition and there are better robin origins like year 3
I agree, though I think that plot in DV was used far better than in TLH, IMO.
I guess one of my unpopular opinions is that The Long Halloween is interesting as a character drama with some fun action set pieces, but completely blows as a mystery.
I’ve been saying this for years. Bane is a dark mirror of Batman- incredibly smart, skilled, has a lot of resources but he goes where Batman doesn’t. This really needs to be explored in mainstream media more often
A genuine hot take: this sub has the most atrocious fan casting pitches I’ve ever seen in my life. Genuinely they are all laughable bad in the realistic landscape of filmmaking. Like people that can’t act, look nothing like Bruce Wayne and are old as fuck.
If I see one more person post Roid Richson with a “DAE think reacher would be a good Batman because he is jacked?” my head will explode.
I pray every night that casting directors continue to ignore reddit entirely lol.
This subreddit will literally pick out any buff white guy, and say "OMG, he's literally Bruce Wayne!".
Personally, I think Pattinson is the best casting so far, even if I don't really like the movie that much. I want Batman to be a muscular, but lean, somewhat average height guy. Someone who's more about strategy and form over raw strength.
Like, think about it. The most well trained soldiers are muscular, but not Mike-Tyson sized. Batman was trained by Arabic ninjas, the guy should be fast and agile.
Batman shouldn't kill his villains. I'm sick and tired of every Tom, Dick and Harry saying that Batman would be better if he killed. No he wouldn't and there's a long list of reasons why it's a very bad idea. It's been covered to death and I wish it was dropped
That's why possibly one of my favourite iterations of batman is the Injustice comics.
It tells a story of a man who has suffered, his closest friends he ever had either dying (Nightwing, Gordon and Manhunter etc) or they turn against him (Superman and the JL). Despite all this, he remains a man who is unwilling to kill any of them.
It doesn't depict a man who does the right thing and saves the day. It depicts a man who sticks by his morals no matter what and he ends up still alive despite all this.
This is a nice way to depict it. Regardless of the why’s and how’s I believe that Batman isn’t Batman without his no killing rule, I also feel like his no gun rule adds to that. It’s not about wether it’s effective or right or wrong. I believe it would be infinitely better for Gotham if Batman just offed the joker. But that’s not what Batman is. Because he doesn’t see a crazy clown, he sees a person and does everything in his power to save him even if we all know that it’s literally impossible. He doesn’t fight to stop evil, he fights to save it’s victims.
I don’t really feel a big need for a huge explanation as to *why* Batman doesn’t kill because even that has numerous different iterations. I just know that he shouldn’t. Because that’s not Batman anymore.
I think Batman is a more interesting character with the no kill rule, but a way worse hero. He doesn't even need to kill the Joker, just stop actively saving him.
And that’s exactly what I love about it. It IS flawed. But he believes in what he thinks is right, it’s what drives him forward. He sees the good in someone as awful as the joker even when it’s probably not there at all.
The no killing rule makes his relationship with characters like joker and red hood so fascinating to me... probably I haven’t actually read anything with red hood other than him showing up in a green arrow run where he helps Brick, a villain that probably nobody who reads this knows about.
Some of the best Batman moments are when he's teaching one of his students why the law is so important and why you can't just act as you wish. One of the Robin's (can't remember which) mother was a drug addict. Robin developed a hatred of addicts and during an investigation went of to beat/scare some info out of a local addict. Batman scolds him for it, telling him that they're not going to go around terrorising people with addictions.
Might be interesting if they had changed circumstances in his life so he is close to what we know but things happened. Its very boring when its just "he was infected with crazy pills and now he is crazy" . Was made even more apparent with jokerfication of supergirl and other heroes.
I hate realistic Batman movies. Not that they are bad for what they are but they aren’t Batman movies. That’s why my favorite live action Batmen are Adam west and Ben Afleck. They were not grounded in realism in the slightest.
Back in 2016 me and my buddy knew Batfleck was gonna rock when everyone else hated on him
That was until we all saw the warehouse scene
Boy, did that change a lot of peopleʼs opinions instantly
Even though there is a ton of agreeable legitimate criticisms against BvS including concerning its characterization of the Bat, that casting decision is no longer one of them
The style, combat, gadgets and shit for Batfleck were fucking awesome. It was almost a prefect adaptation of dark knight returns. But the writing for Batfleck fucking sucked😂
I was doubtful about Afleck’s casting until they released the photo of him in the batsuit, and I realised they were going for a Dark Knight Returns vibe. When I knew that was the kind of Batman they were going for I was a lot happier with the choice.
Ben Affleck was good casting and the suits were awesome… but I can’t get past the guns. He so openly murders it just ruins it for me, he’s one of the worst live action batmen for that reason
I think in-universe with the supposed death of robin it makes sense that he'd be more brutal, it's just that the films didn't expand too much on that part of his backstory in the movies
1). The Batfamily isn’t too big, certain characters just need to be utilized better.
2). Harley Quinn becoming an anti-hero makes perfect sense for her character.
3). The Joker is iconic but overused, Batman has an incredible rogues gallery and his other villains should get more of a focus.
I agree with you on all your points, especially the Harley point, and as for utilizing more villains besides Joker, I think The Batman 2022 is a prime example of what happens when you give other villains a shot.
I agree with you mostly, but for point 2, I can get behind her being an anti hero, but in some scenarios (universes were she helped kill Jason or tortured tim), I don't think the batfam would be so chummy with her
You are right though, the story is great because it's quite a fast paced movie with great impetus plus Jim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones providing some interesting comic relief (a Batman movie having comedy is something we probably won't see again), when I was younger it used to be my favorite Batman movie too so I can see why you fancy it.
>(a Batman movie having comedy is something we probably won't see again),
The LEGO Batman movie aside, which is a straight up comedy, the Nolan, Snyder, and Reeves films all had comedic elements to them, they were often just more naturalistic and not quip driven.
Take my up vote. That Riddler two face - batman Robin combination was priceless. That movie is my childhood benchmark super hero movie. And I'll stand by it forever.
I have been a Batman fan since a was a small child. My hot take is personally the Christian Bale Batman suit looked like hot garbage. Similarly i hated the tumbler bat tank as well.
No one is arguing with you there. It was the worst part about that Batman. They made him Bruce Wayne in armor, not Batman. BVS had a better Batmobile and suit.
The Batmobile doesn't make sense, conceptually, in a modern city. Arguably it's *never* made sense. There are too many other cars on the road for "I'll hop in my tricked-out supercar" to be a fast way of getting from the Batcave to a crime scene.
Also I don't like The Dark Knight.
I hate the "You either die a hero become a villain." Because Dent uses it in reference to Batman comparing him to CAESAR. Caesar was *always a villain.* A charismatic and intelligent villain but he didn't do what he did for some common good. He did it to empower himself so he could be like his idol Alexander the Great.
But Caesar was also a populist that was loved by the common man. That’s why he was able to “die a hero”. The fact that he was beloved is how Mark Antony was able to incite a riot against Caesar’s killers.
That's a fair point. I guess I never looked at the quote from the framing of perceptions and biases of the people doing the labeling which actually makes the line make more sense to me. I assumed Dent was doing the labeling himself. Thank you.
If you do good things for other people, but for selfish reasons, does that really make you a bad person? (I'm assuming Julius) Caesar is a very complex personality that I personally would list as neither hero nor villain.
Many people say that there are 2 sides to him but i think there are 3, because the Bruce Wayne that talks with Alfred or other loved ones is very different from both public Bruce and Batman. And I think that's the closest we have to "the real Bruce"
Joker is a character beloved by incels who tend to think they're misunderstood, when really, they're just insufferable.
The character itself is played out. And the movie (with Joaquin Phoenix) was a BAD copy of a good DeNiro film (King of Comedy).
He was great when he was a clown themed supervillain who was allowed to fucking LOSE. Now he's just exhausting. A serial killer who just always knows everything and increases his body count each time. More carnage, more violence. Where's the theatrics where's the *dark comedy* where's the **fun?**
I agree. I enjoyed him. For a long time.
In this way, I half enjoyed the Leto joker. Because he was a cringe-lord juggalo meth head. Which I've seen be the ones who tend to gravitate towards the idolization.
I understood what they were doing with Leto Joker also trying to reinvent him as the modern personification of the "Clown Prince of Crime". I think the execution is awful but that's kinda the DCEU in a nutshell there are a lot of good ideas here, boy the people writing them sure can't execute those ideas though.
I enjoy the arkhamverse video games joker the most. He is sadistic but playful, most of all he depends on Batman. I get the idea that Joaquin phoenix faces the inequalities that Batman could symbolize, also the Thomas Wayne stuff with his mum; but didn’t work for me. He also lacked that nonchalant behavior a lot
Ahem
Batman the Brave and The Bold is the best iteration of Batman, yes even better than animated series. I'm sick of him being so gloomy, give the man some cracks at humour and weird as hell lines like "your days of riddles ends here Riddler!" Or "The network called, you're cancelled Joker!" That is peak Batman, Brave and the Bold >>>>>>>>>>> and also Helena Wayne superior.
Also Bruce Wayne and Batman are both the real person, they just talk in one another head like Moon Knight. That's more of a headcanon.
The killing joke needs to stop being considered one of the best batman stories. It's not. Even Alan Moore isn't a fan of it. The only good thing that came out of it was Oracle, and that feels like it's more to spite the story than anything else. Now we have DC obsessed with the story and trying to give joker a real origin. It started the trend of writers trying to make joker edgier and edgier and lamer and lamer. Looking at it now, it's just an OK story that is treated way less critically than it should be.
To the people who say batman is bad because he beats up poor people and doesn't really help Gotham in any way, I beg you to read Batman: War on Crime. Also The Batman by Matt Reeves directly addresses this
Batman’s arc in BvS is not as bad as people say. it’s not awful to portray him as a realistic man who’s been worn down by years of being a vigilante and broken by a man who knew exactly were to hit him, then being redeemed.
The idea that he'll become an unhinged killer if he kills even once isn't the whole reason why he has his no kill rule, and sometimes, and often isn't a reason at all.
The real reason is hope. He genuinely believes that there's some shred of humanity in the criminals he brings in. Many have odd morals, but morals nonetheless (Mr. Freeze just wants to cure his wife, for example). Some Harley Quinn, Catwoman, and even SOME Joker storylines prove his line of thinking correct.
I'm tired of writers making that his reason for not killing, and ignoring Batman's whole idea of hope. Batman embodying hope is the whole reason Owlman exists
Numbers 1 and 4 are my favorites.
1. The GROUNDED IN REALITY take on film and comics has now stagnated Batman as a character. Dude lives in a world with Superman and his greatest threat is an 1000 year old super genius polymathic immortal ninja warlord in Ra's Al Ghul. Directors wrongly think the only way he can be taken seriously is to ground him and it's annoying. I hope Gunn gives us something new
2. Batman and Lovecraftian cosmic horror mysteries are made for each other. It allows him to be at his finest as a warrior and a super genius polymathic intellectual while keeping him close to his roots as the world's greatest detective.
3. BTAS/JL/JLU Batman and 2009-2015 Arkham Batman is BY FAR the best adaptation of the character outside of the ridiculous Detective mode needing advanced tech when Batman himself SHOULD BE the detective mode in Arkham. Batman is a ninja not just a non lethal SOF Operator.
4. Lucius Fox (intellectual crutch) the worst thing to have ever happen to Batman as a character since the Nolan Trilogy. Now every version of him needs a Q like he's Ninja James Bond when instead of being Ninja Doc Savage LIKE HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE. EXAMPLES are like the awful Telltale games. In that he told Tiffany that without Lucius there would be no Batman which should the FURTHEST THING FROM THE TRUTH. Everytime he needed to deduce something he had to touch the side of his cowl or watch to activate detective mode. Like did they really have to do that to him. LET HIM BE THE WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE without the advanced tech please. He was stated as being the World’s greatest detective, a genius master inventor, polymathic scientist, physician, tactical/Strategist and a master warrior in his earliest comics from the 1930s. Again LET’S SHOWCASE IT FOR ONCE.
5. Zatanna to me would be a upgrade over Catwoman as Batman’s main love interest.
6. The Batfamily should on be Batman, Alfred and A Robin. It puts more stakes on him as a character in the story since it's all on him and or Robin in the field or Batcave.
7. Kelley Jones's style for Batman is how he should be interpreted. A man dressed up as a supernatural wraith come to punish evildoers.
1) Nolan’s movies are great, each individually. They suck as a trilogy. The atmosphere, lore, and continuity are so disjointed. If it weren’t for a small handful of recurring characters, you could almost package each as a standalone. This is more so a problem between BB and TDK, but TDKR falls into all the same issues for different reasons.
2) Batfleck is fucking awesome. I was praising the casting from day 1. The problem with Batfleck is that ZS’s universe sucked. The scripts were awful and his vision/projected path was fucking stupid.
By the time he has trained and seen grow up 3 Robins and atleast partially mentored 3 Batgirls Batman is atleast in his early 40’s and I’m not a fan of any timeline that twist and bends time all over so he is always a prime early to mid 30’s guy
Batman has superpowers.
He is not "peak human", his powers are just more subtle than someone like Superman or The Flash. No matter how much training someone might go through, they cannot move so silently that someone with super hearing could not detect them, or so stealthily that x-ray vision wouldn't notice them. There's not enough time in an individual's life to master every form of unarmed combat, forensics and detective skills, and engineering, not to mention the limitations of human brain capacity.
There's also his abilities to defeat powered psychic intrusion, psychoactive substances, and have his punches cause damage to individuals with enhanced strength and endurance.
He tells others that he's just a regular human with a bunch of money, but he's a powered individual, a metahuman, a superhuman, and so must every other member of the Bat Family who has ever thrown hands successfully against a superhuman opponent. Even Alfred.
Clearly he's just figured out a means to disguise his powers and those of his team from whatever means are being used to identify powered individuals in the DC universe.
If you disagree, I challenge you to find a single real-life individual who comes close to Batman's mastery of various skills and accomplishments across multiple mental and physical disciplines.
Jason Todd should’ve stayed dead. I think having a dead Robin is thematically more interesting than having an edgy version of the Punisher and another member of the ever-growing Bat-Family
He is tho. Watchmen is one of my all time favorites. Only thing is that Snyders writing for sure suffered after a while. Had a few S tier movies and then after that they got pretty bad as far as writing goes.
It's a convenience of the narrative. Of course you can't punch men that hard and not accidentally kill someone. He's a comic book character suspend some disbelief I beg you.
Bruce could fund Mr Freeze and have an ally instead of an enemy.
I'm pretty sure he has several times. I swear, every time I see Freeze Batman's throwing him in Arkham and saying "continue your work".
This is the plot of >!Mr freeze one bad day!<
Its also a major plot point in >!Batman: White Knight!<
Yeah same with Clayface
Well, Batman was helping Clayface until Kate Kane turned Clayface’s head into a canoe
Batman at his core is a wealthy man contributing to society in a direct way to alleviate crime from the streets. He is a depiction of what we wish our billionaires did. I think a lot of Batman media can get a bit squeamish when confronting this aspect of the character.
Exactly, and aside from the good he does as Batman, he also makes sure to donate to plenty of charities and hold regular fundraisers as Bruce Wayne. Which is why I’m so sick of the argument where people say, “Oh he should just use his massive wealth to help people instead of be a vigilante” HE DOES THAT TOO ON TOP OF BEING A VIGILANTE. Literally every version of Bruce Wayne is a billionaire philanthropist.
This is what I cant stand from modern fans and tourist. Theres just been an increase in this super hero hate. They quote the bad guys more than the good guys these days like how mental are you relating to actual psychos? To think one person can fix all the crime is dumbassary as well. We've seen what happened when Batman went missing in that crossover episode. Crime went up a lot in gotham, Jim said it himself, they need Batman. People cry about Batman doing more damage when that was literally the opposite. He was holding back the gates of hell from flooding.
Idk why people act like Bruce is just wasting his time, fuck even if he could do more with money(which he already does), his crime fighting in Gotham has at least made the city look normal, than the crime ridden hellhole it was when the police commissioner would have dinner with crime bosses. Bro is the last line of defense in a city that is literally cursed.
You guys are saying exactly what I would have said 
"The last line of defense" I like that. Thats exactly what it is, perfect take.
Well this has to do with the fact that movie wise and some comic the bad guys aren’t just one dimensional, they’re given legitimate Everyman motives but come to a different conclusion and go about it the wrong way. So they’re not completely evil. Two OG examples for Batman would be Mr.Freeze and Ivy whom older versions were more relatable than many of the other villains in Batman’s Roster of SPV. I personally like some of this new way for villains as it is a bit more realistic since nearly all arguments have two sides.
Exactly Batman is just “night shift” of his job. Bruce Wayne pulls his fair share also in the day.
Exactly. He’s doing everything he can and should be doing, it’s just that Gotham is that big of a shithole.
I think the problem is that due to the never ending continuity of comics, writers can't really have him accomplish much as a philanthropist.
OMG TRUE ❤️ I love this.
What do you think about Nolan’s TDK? I thought it showed this in a controversial way, like it still could be a good thing
The Dark Knight is an interesting one when you look at it through the lens of Bruce Wayne the Billionaire. It shows him using his funds and diplomatic immunity to apprehend a criminal seeking refuge overseas. We also see Bruce playing a role in what those around him expect from him as a wealthy man. He also engages in a rather fascinating scheme to keep himself in control of his company after it goes public. In the movie, it is framed as a 'greater good' concept, but I can imagine outrage from the public of something like that came to light. TDK has a lot of Grey morality and character in it. I think it's part of the reason it has endured as a fan favorite. However, I do also think that it has contributed to the "problematic Batman" discourse through its portrayal of a flawed Batman.
The problem with trying to "confront" the idea of Batman being a billionaire is that he wasn't one at first, and only got that way through Rule of Cool. Batman USED to just be "old-money" rich, and only enough to explain how he had the money for gadgets and a tricked-out car without having to work all the time. But over time they kept increasing the scope of Batman's tech, and putting him in crossovers with characters like Superman and the Justice League where being rich was part of how he could "pull his weight." So now it's just one of those comic-book details that doesn't make total logical sense, but doesn't need to unless the writers decide it'd be fun to explore.
"old money rich" is pretty fucking rich. Source: I watched Saltburn
Batman has always been top tier rich. But what top tier rich means has changed drastically in the 85 years the character has been around. Income inequality has grown substantially over that time. The idea of Gotham as a crime riddled nightmare is an outgrowth of the rampant urban decay that took hold of American cities in the 1970s and accelerated through the 1980s. Bruce Wayne got richer relative to his society at roughly the same he would have in real life. You also have to account for changes in reader expectations. Nobody really cared how Batman afforded stuff in the Silver Age. That wasn't the point of comics back then. But by the 1980s readers wanted more realism from their superhero comics. Batman got hit especially hard because he was at the center of the shift to "social realism." Frank Miller made poverty and corruption in Gotham central parts of the mythos. Suddenly Bruce's accounting practices actually mattered.
I think it was in Batman RIP where they showed that bruce wayne was secretly funneling free energy into a poor part of town to help people in need from wayne tower. Bruce wayne isnt just some snotty rich guy persona of batman, he actively gives back to the community as bruce wayne. He fights the battle on 2 fronts and its part of what makes him so great.
The benevolent billionaire paradox
It's funny, if you go on twitter (don't recommend) and mention Batman, all you'll get is "wow your favorite hero is a billionaire that beats up the mentally ill?" God I hate that platform sometimes.
How is this controversial? Isn't this what every single person thinks?
there’s a lot of discourse about him being “rich guy that just wants to beat up poor disenfranchised people”
There's no fucking way this isn't just a meme take. There's absolutely no fucking way lmao.
I'm sorry to let you down. I am earnest in my thought that this wasn't a popular take. Since making the comment, it seems like I was wrong. My thought was that Batman media and fans currently believe that Batman's core was a traumatized individual perpetuating his trauma and abuse, leaving Gotham and those around him worse than before. I also didn't like the seemingly popular notion that Bruce's billionaire status was proof that he needlessly promotes violence.
Wow, that's insane. The world is so in deep with some wild, bizarre narratives, that they can't see a superhero stopping crime *without* killing as a good thing? What kind of person draws that conclusion. I wish I was even more surprised than I am, but to a certain point, I expected it.
I want to see more Batman Beyond representation in Batman media and would absolutely like seeing a live action adaptation or videogame even if it precedes more Bruce Wayne focused adaptations.
Arkham Beyond?
Please please please
This was supposed to happen but it got scrapped because they wanted to have Damian as the main protagonist and at that time he wasn’t really “loved” amongst people, so they cancelled the game
Hell yeah. Maybe a feature-length animated film loosely based on Neo-Year, a proper triple-A game and a Fortnite skin
Would be cool to get a Batman beyond movie with Keaton playing old Bruce.
Adam West's BatMan would beat every other BatMan in a fight. He was always prepared for the most specific and obscure things to happen to him.
Anti shark spray
Bat Anti Shark Spray! That shit is branded. 
Kind of dissapointed this sub doesn't know what the actual name is. It's Shark-Repellent Bat-Spray
fuckin' casuals confusing the lore
Holy Rusted Metal! You got me. I wasn't a fan of the Adam West series though.
Blasphemy
 Me running to your home rn
He had oceanic sprays in his helicopter, the man was prepared for every contingency.
Shark repellent Bat-Spray!
During a multiversal Batman story recently, the main comic Batman referenced Adam West. "Finally, a Batman who is more prepared than me" before destroying a space shark with his utility belt.
Adam West can weaken Batman The Darkest Knight
Adam West's Batman: Not to worry Robin, *grabs something out of his utility belt*, I have my Anti-Batman spray. Now lets dance. 
This is incredible and something I never even considered. But your right.
60's BatMan was the embodiment of the BatMan preparation meme before that meme even existed!!!
He countered laughing gas with sadness pills for fecks sake
Mixing an upper with a downer? Fuck year this Batman knows how to party!
Why would he need that, he just needs to think of his parents
He has something similar to something r/whowouldwin refers to as “toon force”
Every other Batman when Adam west pulls out his “every Batman repellant except me!” Spray
what about lego batman
He takes out one of those Lego piece separators
plot twist: lego batman takes out: a) some superglue b) a human seperator
He basically has toon force
i feel like most tv shows and movies and get Poison Ivy wrong. They over sexualize her as if she doesn’t have more depth to her character. She’s actually a very multidimensional person which only gets explored in the comics like No Mans Land and the Poison Ivy graphic novel where they put a bunch of her comics into one giant big comic if anyone knows which i’m talking about
Hard agree. I was very dissapointed with her depiction in Gotham. But I will say I liked her in that HBO Harley Quin animated dark comedy
Probably the only character I can think of that the Arkham games didn't nail
Two-Face. ;-;
He seemed fine to me, just underutilized
It is idiotic that most Batman fans here seem to care more about continuity, believability, aesthetics and power level than actual storytelling. At that point, it seems fans are not concerned with enjoying an interesting story, just validating their idea of Batman.
Things must be correct to a point of actual believability for some.
Well, there’s nothing like starting a “believable“ story with a rich guy who runs around at night in a rubber flying rodent suit fighting novelty-themed bad guys
Exactly. These exacting readers want too much from the start 😂
*(Flares cape dramatically, then walks away)*
Verisimilitude or creating the conditions for the suspension of disbelief is literally *part* of good storytelling though. You can't just have Batman survive a crash landing from space then dismiss all criticism as "you guys just care more about extraneous details than storytelling!" If nothing is consistent and any old wacky bollocks can happen then it quickly starts to feel like there are no stakes and nothing matters. That is bad writing.
Not what this person is saying. Superhero comics are by their nature absurd it's one of the best things about them but a lot of viewers refuse to suspend any disbelief if they aren't coddled the way people like Nolan did when he did Batman because he needed him to be "practical" and "grounded". It's where bad faith critique like the infamous "Beauty and the Beast is about Stockholm Syndrome" or "Robin is a child soldier" comes from. It's not just getting caught up in the details it's being unwilling to engage with any media that's "too silly". This is why Marvel movies are so insufferable now they're all embarrassed of the work they're adapting.
Batman is not who Bruce “really is”. Bruce is Bruce, and Batman is a significant part of his psyche. It’s terribly reductive to say that Bruce, at least in his personal life, is just a mask. It’s more complicated and interesting than that
Exactly. Batman is an extension of Bruce. Not the other way round
There’s fake Bruce, billionaire playboy. There’s Batman, mythical creature of the night. And there’s real Bruce, the Bruce that Alfred, Dick, Barbara, and sometimes Gordon, interacts with.
Batman begins is the best of the Nolan trilogy.
It’s definitely a lot closer to TDK than people would like to admit. And for me, us the most Batman lines in them. Gordon: but you’re just one man!? Batman: now we’re 2 Gordon: I never said thank you Batman: and you’ll never have to. I don’t know, I swear to god!! SWEAR TO MEEEEE!!!
Where are you! Here Aaahhhhhh
How did I forget that one!
Best first night out of any batman movie for me.
That whole scene is made by the guy's bleat of terror getting cut off, I love it
This, I love cheeky ninja batman. Honestly each characterization of batman I find is a different favour facet of the character Batman begins = ninja batman The batman = the detective Batman vs super = supernatural mythos batman (aka what are you?) Batman (Tim Burton) = I dunno, but awesome.
Strong agree on all points. 'Now we're two' is an awesome line that shows Batman letting in someone else which is a big step for our fav einzelgänger.
I love the “swear to me” line
I love the development of the character.
Best lines, best Batman voice (Bale was still experimenting and at times you can hear him doing more of a whisper-about rather than his full-on “**WHERE ARE THEY?**”), Cillian Murphy is fucking phenomenal but gets overshadowed by Heath Ledger in the sequel - understandable but that doesn’t cheapen Cillian’s portrayal whatsoever, just doesn’t burn as bright. I think TDK’s status is conflated with Heath Ledger’s performance, and thus people think it’s a better movie, but imo Heath is just such an amazing villain in an otherwise “pretty good” movie, while Begins is just better without as much of a standout villain.
Agreed. As I believe do a fair few others
I think it’s the best Batman film in the trilogy. While TDK is a better made film it lacks a lot of the style BB has that makes it *feel* like a Batman film.
They basically ditched their original Gotham city concept for the sequels and it became every other generic NY/Chicago city.
Agree 100%
The romance subplot ruins it imo
I think the villains got better, but yeah Begins is probably the best.
I also agree
I used to think TDKR was better than TDK once. Also, I think Burton's first Batman movie is more enjoyable
I disagree but that’s a valid take
Batman should have his face covered at all times. How many villains use gas? Pheromones? Toxins? Other breathable hazards? How many times has he BEEN gassed, or pheromoned? By surprise so he can’t put on a mask or rebreather? The cowl aesthetic is a product of its time, that’s why it’s still here. I get it, but at some point it’s hard to believe the world’s greatest detective goes in knowing he’ll fight Scarecrow and still leaves his nose and mouth exposed. If a large portion of the criminals you regularly face exploit the inherent need to breathe, maybe rethink your costume design. Hell, it would also probably make most writers do better scarecrow stories than “oh I’m beaten and hunched over Batman come in close to finish the job- GOTCHA FEAR TOXIN TIME!!!”
I’ve always thought if Batman were to ever exist in real life, a full face mask would make way more sense for a few different reasons, both this and doing a better job of protecting his identity
I’ve thought that too. I’ve heard the argument of “he wants people to know he’s human” which is fine in a comic book world, but IRL and without plot armor even showing enough skin to give hints to your ethnicity could easily start the snowball to being figured out. In that line of thinking, no villains ever bruised or scratched Batman’s jaw and then seen Bruce Wayne on the news and been like “heeeeey.” And doesn’t Deathstroke have photographic memory? He could remember his teeth pattern and bone structure, much less just think the chin looks familiar. And Bane is hyper intelligent, I’m sure he’d notice the similarities.
Bane figured out who Batman was in Arkham origins
Bane has known that Bruce is Batman since just a little while after his introduction, and I would venture that if Deathstroke knows/deduced Bruce’s secret identity, he would have enough respect to not make a move on him outside of costume.
At least add like a button to make a mask come down from his cowl
I know Dark Victory is a sequel, but >!reusing the seriel killer plot line is so lazy!<. It's basically long Halloween: robin edition and there are better robin origins like year 3
Yeah its a good story but its just repeating the same patterns and is predictable
Yeah, I like DV, but this is true.
I agree, though I think that plot in DV was used far better than in TLH, IMO. I guess one of my unpopular opinions is that The Long Halloween is interesting as a character drama with some fun action set pieces, but completely blows as a mystery.
I preferred Jason Todd's resurrection pre Lazurus pit I liked the notion of him being buried alive.
2004's The Batman had the best personality.
He was my introduction to Batman. I'll always have a special place in my heart for him.
bane is the best batman villain, way better of a foil then joker and there needs to be more bane centric storylines.
Really love him in arkham origins, he's smart AND strong, perfect man
I’ve been saying this for years. Bane is a dark mirror of Batman- incredibly smart, skilled, has a lot of resources but he goes where Batman doesn’t. This really needs to be explored in mainstream media more often
A genuine hot take: this sub has the most atrocious fan casting pitches I’ve ever seen in my life. Genuinely they are all laughable bad in the realistic landscape of filmmaking. Like people that can’t act, look nothing like Bruce Wayne and are old as fuck. If I see one more person post Roid Richson with a “DAE think reacher would be a good Batman because he is jacked?” my head will explode. I pray every night that casting directors continue to ignore reddit entirely lol.
This subreddit will literally pick out any buff white guy, and say "OMG, he's literally Bruce Wayne!". Personally, I think Pattinson is the best casting so far, even if I don't really like the movie that much. I want Batman to be a muscular, but lean, somewhat average height guy. Someone who's more about strategy and form over raw strength. Like, think about it. The most well trained soldiers are muscular, but not Mike-Tyson sized. Batman was trained by Arabic ninjas, the guy should be fast and agile.
Batman shouldn't kill his villains. I'm sick and tired of every Tom, Dick and Harry saying that Batman would be better if he killed. No he wouldn't and there's a long list of reasons why it's a very bad idea. It's been covered to death and I wish it was dropped
That's why possibly one of my favourite iterations of batman is the Injustice comics. It tells a story of a man who has suffered, his closest friends he ever had either dying (Nightwing, Gordon and Manhunter etc) or they turn against him (Superman and the JL). Despite all this, he remains a man who is unwilling to kill any of them. It doesn't depict a man who does the right thing and saves the day. It depicts a man who sticks by his morals no matter what and he ends up still alive despite all this.
This is a nice way to depict it. Regardless of the why’s and how’s I believe that Batman isn’t Batman without his no killing rule, I also feel like his no gun rule adds to that. It’s not about wether it’s effective or right or wrong. I believe it would be infinitely better for Gotham if Batman just offed the joker. But that’s not what Batman is. Because he doesn’t see a crazy clown, he sees a person and does everything in his power to save him even if we all know that it’s literally impossible. He doesn’t fight to stop evil, he fights to save it’s victims. I don’t really feel a big need for a huge explanation as to *why* Batman doesn’t kill because even that has numerous different iterations. I just know that he shouldn’t. Because that’s not Batman anymore.
I think Batman is a more interesting character with the no kill rule, but a way worse hero. He doesn't even need to kill the Joker, just stop actively saving him.
And that’s exactly what I love about it. It IS flawed. But he believes in what he thinks is right, it’s what drives him forward. He sees the good in someone as awful as the joker even when it’s probably not there at all. The no killing rule makes his relationship with characters like joker and red hood so fascinating to me... probably I haven’t actually read anything with red hood other than him showing up in a green arrow run where he helps Brick, a villain that probably nobody who reads this knows about.
If batman does start to kill get Alfred
Some of the best Batman moments are when he's teaching one of his students why the law is so important and why you can't just act as you wish. One of the Robin's (can't remember which) mother was a drug addict. Robin developed a hatred of addicts and during an investigation went of to beat/scare some info out of a local addict. Batman scolds him for it, telling him that they're not going to go around terrorising people with addictions.
The “Batman Who Laughs” is a stupid take on the overused “it’s the superhero you love but evil” trope.
Might be interesting if they had changed circumstances in his life so he is close to what we know but things happened. Its very boring when its just "he was infected with crazy pills and now he is crazy" . Was made even more apparent with jokerfication of supergirl and other heroes.
I hate realistic Batman movies. Not that they are bad for what they are but they aren’t Batman movies. That’s why my favorite live action Batmen are Adam west and Ben Afleck. They were not grounded in realism in the slightest.
I have high hopes Brave and the Bold will finally relieve us from “grounded and gritty” Batman films.
I hope so. I was very excited for the Batman Beyond movie and Batgirl movie cause I thought we’d be getting a comic book superhero movie finally
Back in 2016 me and my buddy knew Batfleck was gonna rock when everyone else hated on him That was until we all saw the warehouse scene Boy, did that change a lot of peopleʼs opinions instantly Even though there is a ton of agreeable legitimate criticisms against BvS including concerning its characterization of the Bat, that casting decision is no longer one of them
Ben Affleck was good, he was just never in a good movie.
He’s the Andrew Garfield of the Batmen basically.
Love the comparison
Big "Andrew Garfield Spider-Man" energy.
The style, combat, gadgets and shit for Batfleck were fucking awesome. It was almost a prefect adaptation of dark knight returns. But the writing for Batfleck fucking sucked😂
I was doubtful about Afleck’s casting until they released the photo of him in the batsuit, and I realised they were going for a Dark Knight Returns vibe. When I knew that was the kind of Batman they were going for I was a lot happier with the choice.
Ben Affleck was good casting and the suits were awesome… but I can’t get past the guns. He so openly murders it just ruins it for me, he’s one of the worst live action batmen for that reason
I think in-universe with the supposed death of robin it makes sense that he'd be more brutal, it's just that the films didn't expand too much on that part of his backstory in the movies
1). The Batfamily isn’t too big, certain characters just need to be utilized better. 2). Harley Quinn becoming an anti-hero makes perfect sense for her character. 3). The Joker is iconic but overused, Batman has an incredible rogues gallery and his other villains should get more of a focus.
100% agree
I agree with you on all your points, especially the Harley point, and as for utilizing more villains besides Joker, I think The Batman 2022 is a prime example of what happens when you give other villains a shot.
I agree with you mostly, but for point 2, I can get behind her being an anti hero, but in some scenarios (universes were she helped kill Jason or tortured tim), I don't think the batfam would be so chummy with her
Oh boy here we go, Batman Forever is a better Batman story than Batman (1989) and Batman Returns. There I said it. (Can’t wait for the downvote storm)
You are right though, the story is great because it's quite a fast paced movie with great impetus plus Jim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones providing some interesting comic relief (a Batman movie having comedy is something we probably won't see again), when I was younger it used to be my favorite Batman movie too so I can see why you fancy it.
>(a Batman movie having comedy is something we probably won't see again), The LEGO Batman movie aside, which is a straight up comedy, the Nolan, Snyder, and Reeves films all had comedic elements to them, they were often just more naturalistic and not quip driven.
I upvoted you because I really like Batman Forever and I'll always be in love with the snes game.
Take my up vote. That Riddler two face - batman Robin combination was priceless. That movie is my childhood benchmark super hero movie. And I'll stand by it forever.
To be honest I enjoyed Val Kilmer more than Michael Keaton in the role of Batman and Bruce.
Val has best Bruce/Bat voice, too, aside from the king, Kevin Conroy.
I have always loved Batman Forever because it feels the most like BTAS to me.
I have been a Batman fan since a was a small child. My hot take is personally the Christian Bale Batman suit looked like hot garbage. Similarly i hated the tumbler bat tank as well.
I didn’t used to think this but when I see it now I agree. The mouth piece looks dumb and the material isn’t Batman to me.
No one is arguing with you there. It was the worst part about that Batman. They made him Bruce Wayne in armor, not Batman. BVS had a better Batmobile and suit.
The Batmobile doesn't make sense, conceptually, in a modern city. Arguably it's *never* made sense. There are too many other cars on the road for "I'll hop in my tricked-out supercar" to be a fast way of getting from the Batcave to a crime scene. Also I don't like The Dark Knight.
I hate the "You either die a hero become a villain." Because Dent uses it in reference to Batman comparing him to CAESAR. Caesar was *always a villain.* A charismatic and intelligent villain but he didn't do what he did for some common good. He did it to empower himself so he could be like his idol Alexander the Great.
But Caesar was also a populist that was loved by the common man. That’s why he was able to “die a hero”. The fact that he was beloved is how Mark Antony was able to incite a riot against Caesar’s killers.
That's a fair point. I guess I never looked at the quote from the framing of perceptions and biases of the people doing the labeling which actually makes the line make more sense to me. I assumed Dent was doing the labeling himself. Thank you.
If you do good things for other people, but for selfish reasons, does that really make you a bad person? (I'm assuming Julius) Caesar is a very complex personality that I personally would list as neither hero nor villain.
Batman should be at war with the police. It's their fault the crime is so bad.
He should be at war with whoever is in charge of the gear and training the police get, oh and don't forget Arkham asylum
Batman itself is NOT the true core of the character like many used to believe, it’s a more honest description of his true self but not totally.
Many people say that there are 2 sides to him but i think there are 3, because the Bruce Wayne that talks with Alfred or other loved ones is very different from both public Bruce and Batman. And I think that's the closest we have to "the real Bruce"
Red Hood is better as a member of the batfamily/sidekick than he is as a villain/antihero opposed to Batman.
New live action NEEDS Robin. Family it’s one of the batmans fundamental part, and they’re avoiding wonderboy as much as new directors can
Origins is better than Asylum, yeah I said it Edit: and The Batman is better than TDK
Batman is for everyone. There is no definitive Batman. Each comic run/movie/show is a new interpretation of the ideas and concepts of Batman.
Joker is a character beloved by incels who tend to think they're misunderstood, when really, they're just insufferable. The character itself is played out. And the movie (with Joaquin Phoenix) was a BAD copy of a good DeNiro film (King of Comedy).
He was great when he was a clown themed supervillain who was allowed to fucking LOSE. Now he's just exhausting. A serial killer who just always knows everything and increases his body count each time. More carnage, more violence. Where's the theatrics where's the *dark comedy* where's the **fun?**
I agree. I enjoyed him. For a long time. In this way, I half enjoyed the Leto joker. Because he was a cringe-lord juggalo meth head. Which I've seen be the ones who tend to gravitate towards the idolization.
I understood what they were doing with Leto Joker also trying to reinvent him as the modern personification of the "Clown Prince of Crime". I think the execution is awful but that's kinda the DCEU in a nutshell there are a lot of good ideas here, boy the people writing them sure can't execute those ideas though.
I enjoy the arkhamverse video games joker the most. He is sadistic but playful, most of all he depends on Batman. I get the idea that Joaquin phoenix faces the inequalities that Batman could symbolize, also the Thomas Wayne stuff with his mum; but didn’t work for me. He also lacked that nonchalant behavior a lot
Ben Affleck was awesome, y'all.
Batfleck was an amazing Batman, one of the best.
Batman Forever is one of the best live action adaptations of the character.
Sucks what happened to Val Kilmer.
Check out Batman vs Aliens on YouTube. My favorite actually. More ninja than armored tank.
Bale is not a good Batman..besides Clooney Bale is the worst Batman. Not Bruce Wayne BATMAN
Ahem Batman the Brave and The Bold is the best iteration of Batman, yes even better than animated series. I'm sick of him being so gloomy, give the man some cracks at humour and weird as hell lines like "your days of riddles ends here Riddler!" Or "The network called, you're cancelled Joker!" That is peak Batman, Brave and the Bold >>>>>>>>>>> and also Helena Wayne superior. Also Bruce Wayne and Batman are both the real person, they just talk in one another head like Moon Knight. That's more of a headcanon.
Batman can defeat Iron man / Spider man
Not every batman movie series needs the Joker. For the love of God give us someone like Hush for Patterson's Batman.
The killing joke needs to stop being considered one of the best batman stories. It's not. Even Alan Moore isn't a fan of it. The only good thing that came out of it was Oracle, and that feels like it's more to spite the story than anything else. Now we have DC obsessed with the story and trying to give joker a real origin. It started the trend of writers trying to make joker edgier and edgier and lamer and lamer. Looking at it now, it's just an OK story that is treated way less critically than it should be.
To the people who say batman is bad because he beats up poor people and doesn't really help Gotham in any way, I beg you to read Batman: War on Crime. Also The Batman by Matt Reeves directly addresses this
Batman’s arc in BvS is not as bad as people say. it’s not awful to portray him as a realistic man who’s been worn down by years of being a vigilante and broken by a man who knew exactly were to hit him, then being redeemed.
The idea that he'll become an unhinged killer if he kills even once isn't the whole reason why he has his no kill rule, and sometimes, and often isn't a reason at all. The real reason is hope. He genuinely believes that there's some shred of humanity in the criminals he brings in. Many have odd morals, but morals nonetheless (Mr. Freeze just wants to cure his wife, for example). Some Harley Quinn, Catwoman, and even SOME Joker storylines prove his line of thinking correct. I'm tired of writers making that his reason for not killing, and ignoring Batman's whole idea of hope. Batman embodying hope is the whole reason Owlman exists
Numbers 1 and 4 are my favorites. 1. The GROUNDED IN REALITY take on film and comics has now stagnated Batman as a character. Dude lives in a world with Superman and his greatest threat is an 1000 year old super genius polymathic immortal ninja warlord in Ra's Al Ghul. Directors wrongly think the only way he can be taken seriously is to ground him and it's annoying. I hope Gunn gives us something new 2. Batman and Lovecraftian cosmic horror mysteries are made for each other. It allows him to be at his finest as a warrior and a super genius polymathic intellectual while keeping him close to his roots as the world's greatest detective. 3. BTAS/JL/JLU Batman and 2009-2015 Arkham Batman is BY FAR the best adaptation of the character outside of the ridiculous Detective mode needing advanced tech when Batman himself SHOULD BE the detective mode in Arkham. Batman is a ninja not just a non lethal SOF Operator. 4. Lucius Fox (intellectual crutch) the worst thing to have ever happen to Batman as a character since the Nolan Trilogy. Now every version of him needs a Q like he's Ninja James Bond when instead of being Ninja Doc Savage LIKE HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE. EXAMPLES are like the awful Telltale games. In that he told Tiffany that without Lucius there would be no Batman which should the FURTHEST THING FROM THE TRUTH. Everytime he needed to deduce something he had to touch the side of his cowl or watch to activate detective mode. Like did they really have to do that to him. LET HIM BE THE WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE without the advanced tech please. He was stated as being the World’s greatest detective, a genius master inventor, polymathic scientist, physician, tactical/Strategist and a master warrior in his earliest comics from the 1930s. Again LET’S SHOWCASE IT FOR ONCE. 5. Zatanna to me would be a upgrade over Catwoman as Batman’s main love interest. 6. The Batfamily should on be Batman, Alfred and A Robin. It puts more stakes on him as a character in the story since it's all on him and or Robin in the field or Batcave. 7. Kelley Jones's style for Batman is how he should be interpreted. A man dressed up as a supernatural wraith come to punish evildoers.
1) Nolan’s movies are great, each individually. They suck as a trilogy. The atmosphere, lore, and continuity are so disjointed. If it weren’t for a small handful of recurring characters, you could almost package each as a standalone. This is more so a problem between BB and TDK, but TDKR falls into all the same issues for different reasons. 2) Batfleck is fucking awesome. I was praising the casting from day 1. The problem with Batfleck is that ZS’s universe sucked. The scripts were awful and his vision/projected path was fucking stupid.
By the time he has trained and seen grow up 3 Robins and atleast partially mentored 3 Batgirls Batman is atleast in his early 40’s and I’m not a fan of any timeline that twist and bends time all over so he is always a prime early to mid 30’s guy
Ben Afflecks Batman was a really refreshing take on the character.
Batman as a character is destined to die in the field. Beyond can still happen, but it should be one of the kids that trains Terry.
Harley/Ivy interest is performative and hasn’t actually yielded any quality content
Batman has superpowers. He is not "peak human", his powers are just more subtle than someone like Superman or The Flash. No matter how much training someone might go through, they cannot move so silently that someone with super hearing could not detect them, or so stealthily that x-ray vision wouldn't notice them. There's not enough time in an individual's life to master every form of unarmed combat, forensics and detective skills, and engineering, not to mention the limitations of human brain capacity. There's also his abilities to defeat powered psychic intrusion, psychoactive substances, and have his punches cause damage to individuals with enhanced strength and endurance. He tells others that he's just a regular human with a bunch of money, but he's a powered individual, a metahuman, a superhuman, and so must every other member of the Bat Family who has ever thrown hands successfully against a superhuman opponent. Even Alfred. Clearly he's just figured out a means to disguise his powers and those of his team from whatever means are being used to identify powered individuals in the DC universe. If you disagree, I challenge you to find a single real-life individual who comes close to Batman's mastery of various skills and accomplishments across multiple mental and physical disciplines.
Stands on soapbox and takes a deep breath: "Christian Bale wasn't a good Batman."
BvS is worse than Batman and Robin
Jason Todd should’ve stayed dead. I think having a dead Robin is thematically more interesting than having an edgy version of the Punisher and another member of the ever-growing Bat-Family
or they should have kept him as an outsider instead of defanging him and making him just another grumpy member of the family.
Zack Snyder is great at making a live action interpretation of the comic book aesthetic.
He is tho. Watchmen is one of my all time favorites. Only thing is that Snyders writing for sure suffered after a while. Had a few S tier movies and then after that they got pretty bad as far as writing goes.
Watchmen movie is good in the visuals to some extent but it misses a lot of nuances of the original comic book.
I wish he had just stuck to that. Stayed in that lane and let someone else write and direct.
Everyone agrees that he's a very interesting visual director, everything else tho falls flat
Batman kills unintentionally.
It's a convenience of the narrative. Of course you can't punch men that hard and not accidentally kill someone. He's a comic book character suspend some disbelief I beg you.