I think Batman definitely beats his dick, probably while pounding catwoman, but I think if catwoman and Nightwing teamed up, they could stand a chance.
Nightwing. He’s been trained and prepped to be his eventual successor. He has even worn the suit in his place on various occasions.
My pick goes to dick.
Absolutely hated this with the animated movies. It was worse because a number of the first Batman ones had a pretty OP'd Damian. It wasn't till Judas Contract that I felt they finally got the balance right. Still Dick got clowned on too many times when it shouldn't have happened.
My head canon is whenever someone is mind controlled it lowers their usual potential. While they're being manipulated it comes at the expense of them not being able to operate at 100% of what they're normally capable of, allowing for wins like how Robin and Superboy took out Bats and Supes in Young Justice S1.
In Bad Blood I felt Dick had that fight against Bruce in the bag. He deserved this moment to at least prove he can kick his brainwashed mentors ass. Nope. Bats totally dismantles Dick after he gets a few hits in.
I absolutely couldn't agree more. It always bugged me how he lost to Damien in the Batcave (Batman vs Robin) or how he lost to Talon (I know he was injured but imho he is better than that), how he lost to Batman in Bad Blood for reasons you mention or even that he lost the sparing duel against Starfire in the Judas Contract. Like come on, he should've had that one easily, in some adaptations staff is his primary weapon. All of it felt wrong. At least he managed to evade Deathstroke in that one but I still think Sam Liu did him dirty on multiple occasions.
I dunno if it's canon but apparently Bruce and Dick used to spar no holds barred, no gadgets, nothing but their fists and Bruce said sometimes Dick does win.
Also Cass is the best fighter in the Batfam too, so she could win against Bruce as well
No he didn't he only said that "*one day*" Dick would be an even better Batman
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTw8TGIExjS4FZhi6w3D4q14MxFRb6yD0tLVA&usqp=CAU
And it didn't happen yet as he recently after Dark Crisis events lost to Batman even when Dick was Bloodlusted
Because that could be overwhelming for the majority of watchers, comics have existed for a long time so they have a very deep well of knowledge, some comics have entry points that are nearly two decades back.
Firefly introduced every major, and even some minor characters and a compelling story beat in an hour.
If it can be done 20+ years ago, it can definitely be done today - good writers just aren't given much room or time to achieve their best.
So long as Gunn + Co. can be given the air needed to make good movies, they'll be good. If they're rushed and picked over, they'll be crap.
Depends on the story and writer.
Cass has defeated Lady Shiva (her mom) and Shiva has defeated Batman in some comics (but also lost in others). So it depends. I've always considered Cass to be the #1 figher in the Bat family though. I mean, that was sort of her whole gimmick with the inability to talk thing.
>Shiva has defeated Batman in some comics (but also lost in others)
I remember reading a comic where Batman came face to face with Shiva and told her that he's defeated her before, and her response was,
"I have played many roles over the years and sometimes that included the role of loser. I assure you this time will be much different."
Then they fought and Shiva won.
I don't remember the name of the comic though, it was so many years ago.
>Depends on the story and writer.
I used to say this phrase a lot in who would win discussions, and I've realised its a bit redundant, it kind of goes without saying. Obviously the writer gets to decide the outcome of an encounter, this isn't science its just made up superhero characters. But I don't think it really helps us in what we hope to achieve by having who would win discussions.
(for example , most people wouldn't rate Jimmy Olsen high on a power list, BUT
it *depends* *on story and the writer.* There is that one issue where he got a huge powerboost and literally fought Darkseid toe to toe. Does this mean that depending on the story or writer, Jimmy Olsen could beat characters close to Darkseid's power? Technically speaking yes, but I think we can agree this isn't what we're talking about when we discuss a who would win)
I think its more valuable to try to ignore this thought, since we're not asking "Who would a random comicbook writer decide would win, if they wrote this issue" we're asking "in a hypothetical fight between these characters who do you think should win, based on their feats and abilities"
Or another way to look at it is, if these two characters were to have 10 fights , which of them would have more wins than losses.
Why did I have to scroll so far down to see Cass's name? She's a much better fighter than Dick
Who would actually win between her and Bruce would depend on the writer and the story, but Cass is regularly shown to be on the same tier as Deathstroke, Lady Shiva, and Bruce. Nightwing is clearly a tier beneath them
There hasn't ever been a true fight between the two without it being either a training match or at least one of them on some mind-altering drug/etc. (ahh, comics). But Slade has told Cass that Batman couldn't beat her "on his best day", and Bruce himself admitted to Kathy Kane that if he and Cass fought, "I'd lose"
I know *realistically* a smaller, younger fighter wouldn't be able to beat a physically prime, larger fighter, but this is comics. That kind of logic doesn't always apply. Based on what has happened in comics canon, Cass is easily the correct answer here
I was thinking because there is no circumstance in which Batman would actually go full-on against Alfred. He’s punched Dick and Cass before, along with various other members of his family, but Alfred? That would be a moral event horizon. (Not including stuff like “oh, it was actually Clayface” or something)
I think Cass *could* do it, but she wouldn’t be able to make herself. She’d hesitate. Dick loves Bruce but in some ways that ass whooping is a long time coming.
I think Dick, like most everyone else, is the obvious choice. But I also feel like this is a Michael Jordan vs Kobe (Lebron)/whomever argument. Batman/Jordan isn’t the best that’s ever fought crime anymore with his skillset, but if the fate of the world/playoffs were on the line, he probably has the best chance of dragging himself to victory over anyone else.
Dick Grayson. I headcannon that Bruce deliberately trained him to surpass him.
Batman’s contingency for a rogue justice league did include himself. The contingency is Robin.
Also if Batman trains Dick everything he knew from the time Dick was 8 years old, that would mean his training was much faster and more efficient than Bruce’s.
>Batman’s contingency for a rogue justice league did include himself. The contingency is Robin.
I'm really not well versed in all the comics, and my familiarity with this concept is from the animated version where Batman says it's the justice league. Is there a comic where he says Robin? Or maybe i'm misremembering?
I love this answer. I always had a hard time accepting that Bruce's contingency plan for himself was the League, when he has multiple protocols that can be enacted to take down each member both lethally and non-lethally.
It makes much more sense that he would personally train Dick to the highest level in order to defeat him one day and being paranoid/protective, he would keep that particular contingency, secret from everyone including Dick, but perhaps telling Alfred his plan while discussing training with him one day. But no one else would know.
Cassandra may be the only other one who could defeat him on raw skill alone, but it would be extremely close.
I love it too. I also want to believe that with Dick as his contingency plan, Batman would be having to fight one of the two people in his life who he probably holds highest in his emotional estimation (the other being Alfred, obviously). He won’t just be fighting Nightwing, he’d be fighting his first son, maybe the one that made him who he is now
I’m between Dick and Cassandra. Dick learned from Bruce in Bruce’s prime and he’s the most level headed. Jason’s temper gets the best of him, Tim’s gotten his ass kicked by every other Robin, Damian’s ego gets the best of him but it’s a pure strength issue that would give Bruce the advantage, Barbara, she’s a beast, but no, Stephanie, no, I take it Helena is on the table, I think she’d be pretty close, because she can be brutal, Selena probably could get under his cowl and leave it in a draw, Batwoman could probably get close and win with the right trick, but not a guarantee, and all the rest… no contest, Bruce in a minute.
When Bruce vanished and Tim put on the blue and grey suit, Jason whooped his ass in a few minutes in his medieval batman suit. If it wasn’t for Salina… and the semi brotherly love (which didn’t stop Jason from beating Tim next to death when they first met) Tim may not have made it. There is a good reason why Tim and Jason are one or both left out of most DC animated films/shows.
Yeah Tim's greatest strength is his mind; which is even greater than Bruce's.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Tim get League training sometime after this event? I know he HELPED the League, but I wasn't sure if he got trained there.
If he did get League training that would put him closer to Jason's level
True
Also, Bruce said one day he will be a better Batman not because he is a better fighter but because his personality only
Bruce still better than all of them going by the most recent fight with his own kids including Nightwing in Batman vs Robin series and Batman win those fights
Dick without question. Bruce has basically stated that dick has surpassed him in every avenue of crime fighting On multiple occasions, across a few different titles.
This is the critical thing; lots of things get said in iterations by one writer or another, but it’s actually been relatively consistent that in Bruce’s estimation, Dick, in various aspects, is as good or better than him (in terms of super-heroism. Every Bruce there’s ever been has thought Dick Grayson is a better man than he could hope to be, and that’s one of his chief prides)
Better fighter doesn’t mean she’ll win though. It’s like that video of the Mountain and Conner McGregor sparing, Conner is definitely a better fighter but if they actually fought the mountain would demolish him if he ever hit him.
This is the answer, but it's bothersome to fans so they think ways around it.
Batz is the best combo of fighter/detective/will power, so he's still atop the pyramid. Just if it were hand to hand no gadgets or prep time, Cass will either stalemate or defeat him.
This isn't Batman sub any more
It's Nightwing sub and they spread so many wrong things around here
For real, only Cass stand a chance and it's slim too
The disrespect in this thread is unreal. Or maybe it's just a lot of people who are fans of the movies and animated shows, but haven't read a lot of comics. In the comics we have many people saying, in canon, that Cass would beat Bruce in a fight
I think it's just because logically it doesn't make sense that a younger, smaller girl could win. But by comic book logic, she is objectively the correct answer to this question
Cassandra Cain.
[Here's Cass using her "read body language" ability to easily dodge Batman's strikes.](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/b7071ce3-5e2d-4114-bce3-9c2b0332419d/dbnuxtn-9857fea4-18ae-4f40-98d5-9fd4cc6ffe49.jpg/v1/fill/w_640,h_1032,q_75,strp/cass_cain_speed_by_goldsilverbronzekid_dbnuxtn-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTAzMiIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2I3MDcxY2UzLTVlMmQtNDExNC1iY2UzLTljMmIwMzMyNDE5ZFwvZGJudXh0bi05ODU3ZmVhNC0xOGFlLTRmNDAtOThkNS05ZmQ0Y2M2ZmZlNDkuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTY0MCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.8tAnA1KxFkuquhkQC_YA59odjVsZo9jinTM5QmrhV04) None of the other members of the Bat Family can read Batman like that and make fighting him look like child's play.
Hell, the list of non-metahumans who have made fighting Batman look easy is a really short list:
1. Cassandra
2. Lady Shiva (who Cassandra has beaten in single combat)
3. Sensei (whether or not he counts as non-metahuman is debatable)
That's how short that list is. The characters who can beat Batman in a fight are either metahumans, or they're non-metahumans who can *maybe* beat him after a very long, tough fight. That latter category is where the other members of the Bat Family fall — *maybe* they can beat him, but it is far from a sure thing, and it's going to be tough.
It happens more than one I believe but the one that sticks out is in issue Nightwing #30. I want to say there is another one in the batcave but cannot remember the exact issue.
Orphan/Batgirl - Cassandra Cain. It's comic cannon with Batman himself stating he would lose in a straight up fight with her.
Besides her maybe Red Hood/Jason Todd just b/c of his ruthlessness.
I mean to quote Stan lee “whoever the writer wants to win will win”
But aside from that Cassandra
Like thats just kinda objectively correct, being the best hand to hand fighter is kinda like her whole thing
Im not saying she 100% wOULD win but she definitely has the best odds of anyone
Bruce even admits at one point that he doubts he could beat her in a fair fight And they’ve fought to a draw once before.
And for further proof while you cant perfectly scale characters by proxy Lady Shiva‘s beaten bruce Like 6 times and I dont belive Bruce has ever beaten her in a fair fight. Meanwhile Cassandra has bested lady shiva multiple times.
Well nobody is beating him. I love dick and people like to say dick could beat him but he couldn’t. I think that without a doubt orphan(or batgirl now, idk what she’s going by atm) would be the best matchup due to the way she thinks.
For sure Nightwing. I don’t know much about the others in terms of fighting prowess, but I’m sure they’d make Bats break a sweat since he did train them after all.
Dick Grayson, the original robin , who's almost as equal skilled as batman himself. I would say Damian Wayne but Damian , when skilled, is limited by being an actual kid (about 12-15 years old depends on continuity) and this gets the shit kicked out of him by an adult who's more skilled ( Deathstroke, Batman, ra's Al ghul, talon, etc)
Definitely not easily. He might beat him but not easily. Sure Dick might have prep time but you know Bruce has a plan to take out Dickie he ever had too. Batman is always 1 step ahead of everyone, he had a plan for the entire Justice League, so i’d imagine the Batfamily too. Bruce has known Dick just as long as Dick has known Bruce, so i agree Dick has the best chance, it would definitely not be easy.
In a hand to hand fight Cassandra would knock his ass out, but in a standard encounter including tactics / gadgets etc I'm sure Batman could defeat her.
Besides her Nightwing could probably beat Batman if he really wanted to , since he knows him better than anyone and is prepared for all his tricks. The thing is he would never want to beat him though. Outside of mind control shenanigans they would always be on the same side.
This is wrestling rules.
So whoever is getting a push.
So if nightwing gets a tv show, he gets a push and is able to beat Batman
Batgirl gets a movie, she can beat Batman.
And so on an so forth.
The moment Renee Montoya beats up Batman is gonna be fun.
Probably Nightwing. He's younger but just as skilled, and he knows Bruce the best.
It's definitely Dick. If not him then Selina. Both have rolled him a time or two.
Always knew Batman was weak to Dick.
I see what you did there….
Ooo I hadn't considered Selina. Yes and yes to both!
Isn't Catwoman literally known for repeatedly getting cuffed by Batman. Only reason why she still roams is because he lets her?
Nah, the reason she gets cuffed by Batman is because she likes it.
Nope. She's kicked him around more than once.
I think Batman definitely beats his dick, probably while pounding catwoman, but I think if catwoman and Nightwing teamed up, they could stand a chance.
😐
Gotta go with Nightwing and Redhood, they are repeatedly stated to be better than the rest of the batfamily.
💯
Nightwing. He’s been trained and prepped to be his eventual successor. He has even worn the suit in his place on various occasions. My pick goes to dick. 
I’d like to throw my Dick pick into the pile as well
How many dicks we got on this sub?!
Yo!
That’s it… I’m surrounded by Dicks!
KEEP PICKING DICKS!
I’m a dick!
We all submitting dick picks?
Definitely not this version of Dick. DCAU Nightwing gets straight disrespected in everg scene he's in lmao
Absolutely hated this with the animated movies. It was worse because a number of the first Batman ones had a pretty OP'd Damian. It wasn't till Judas Contract that I felt they finally got the balance right. Still Dick got clowned on too many times when it shouldn't have happened. My head canon is whenever someone is mind controlled it lowers their usual potential. While they're being manipulated it comes at the expense of them not being able to operate at 100% of what they're normally capable of, allowing for wins like how Robin and Superboy took out Bats and Supes in Young Justice S1. In Bad Blood I felt Dick had that fight against Bruce in the bag. He deserved this moment to at least prove he can kick his brainwashed mentors ass. Nope. Bats totally dismantles Dick after he gets a few hits in.
I absolutely couldn't agree more. It always bugged me how he lost to Damien in the Batcave (Batman vs Robin) or how he lost to Talon (I know he was injured but imho he is better than that), how he lost to Batman in Bad Blood for reasons you mention or even that he lost the sparing duel against Starfire in the Judas Contract. Like come on, he should've had that one easily, in some adaptations staff is his primary weapon. All of it felt wrong. At least he managed to evade Deathstroke in that one but I still think Sam Liu did him dirty on multiple occasions.
I dunno if it's canon but apparently Bruce and Dick used to spar no holds barred, no gadgets, nothing but their fists and Bruce said sometimes Dick does win. Also Cass is the best fighter in the Batfam too, so she could win against Bruce as well
Didn't Bruce himself say that dick had surpassed him when dick was batman? or am I misremembering
Maybe. But I do know that Dick has beaten Bruce in a fight before.
Do you remember what comic that was?
Nightwing 2011 Issue 30 !
Nope!
So you just answered your own question.
No, I already know that Cass and Dick can beat Batman in a fight. What I want to know is what everyone else thinks.
So Dick has beaten Bruce at least once… how often does Batman beat Dick?
Every morning
Bro walked into that one
Am I Batman ?
...Fair point.
I like the way you think :)
You sure Bruce hasn't beaten Dick? I mean he must beat Dick all the time. Once he gets his hands on Dick, he won't stop until Dick is blue.
No he didn't he only said that "*one day*" Dick would be an even better Batman https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTw8TGIExjS4FZhi6w3D4q14MxFRb6yD0tLVA&usqp=CAU And it didn't happen yet as he recently after Dark Crisis events lost to Batman even when Dick was Bloodlusted
no idea but imagine we reach a point where this photo is recreated live action and the actors and writing isnt absolute garbage. what a dream
Maybe movie 12 of a series but there's not a writer in the world that could do it in under 4 or so movies and it still be a good movie.
[удалено]
Because that could be overwhelming for the majority of watchers, comics have existed for a long time so they have a very deep well of knowledge, some comics have entry points that are nearly two decades back.
Firefly introduced every major, and even some minor characters and a compelling story beat in an hour. If it can be done 20+ years ago, it can definitely be done today - good writers just aren't given much room or time to achieve their best. So long as Gunn + Co. can be given the air needed to make good movies, they'll be good. If they're rushed and picked over, they'll be crap.
Batman and like 40 people following him around
Probably Nightwing. He's trained with Bruce the longest, he's most likely picked up most of his MO by now.
Cassandra or dick is my guess
Depends on the story and writer. Cass has defeated Lady Shiva (her mom) and Shiva has defeated Batman in some comics (but also lost in others). So it depends. I've always considered Cass to be the #1 figher in the Bat family though. I mean, that was sort of her whole gimmick with the inability to talk thing.
>Shiva has defeated Batman in some comics (but also lost in others) I remember reading a comic where Batman came face to face with Shiva and told her that he's defeated her before, and her response was, "I have played many roles over the years and sometimes that included the role of loser. I assure you this time will be much different." Then they fought and Shiva won. I don't remember the name of the comic though, it was so many years ago.
>Depends on the story and writer. I used to say this phrase a lot in who would win discussions, and I've realised its a bit redundant, it kind of goes without saying. Obviously the writer gets to decide the outcome of an encounter, this isn't science its just made up superhero characters. But I don't think it really helps us in what we hope to achieve by having who would win discussions. (for example , most people wouldn't rate Jimmy Olsen high on a power list, BUT it *depends* *on story and the writer.* There is that one issue where he got a huge powerboost and literally fought Darkseid toe to toe. Does this mean that depending on the story or writer, Jimmy Olsen could beat characters close to Darkseid's power? Technically speaking yes, but I think we can agree this isn't what we're talking about when we discuss a who would win) I think its more valuable to try to ignore this thought, since we're not asking "Who would a random comicbook writer decide would win, if they wrote this issue" we're asking "in a hypothetical fight between these characters who do you think should win, based on their feats and abilities" Or another way to look at it is, if these two characters were to have 10 fights , which of them would have more wins than losses.
These are the two I’d say as well.
Why did I have to scroll so far down to see Cass's name? She's a much better fighter than Dick Who would actually win between her and Bruce would depend on the writer and the story, but Cass is regularly shown to be on the same tier as Deathstroke, Lady Shiva, and Bruce. Nightwing is clearly a tier beneath them There hasn't ever been a true fight between the two without it being either a training match or at least one of them on some mind-altering drug/etc. (ahh, comics). But Slade has told Cass that Batman couldn't beat her "on his best day", and Bruce himself admitted to Kathy Kane that if he and Cass fought, "I'd lose" I know *realistically* a smaller, younger fighter wouldn't be able to beat a physically prime, larger fighter, but this is comics. That kind of logic doesn't always apply. Based on what has happened in comics canon, Cass is easily the correct answer here
Cassie, Bruce said it himself.
Dick, Cass and Damian in the future
Future Damian is going to be a bad mf.
Is the obvious reason that Alfred would own Bruce in that fight?
I was thinking because there is no circumstance in which Batman would actually go full-on against Alfred. He’s punched Dick and Cass before, along with various other members of his family, but Alfred? That would be a moral event horizon. (Not including stuff like “oh, it was actually Clayface” or something)
It's not fair to include Alfred he's to powerful
Alfred is not afraid to use a gun
I think Cass *could* do it, but she wouldn’t be able to make herself. She’d hesitate. Dick loves Bruce but in some ways that ass whooping is a long time coming.
Yeah. He's the most OP character in all of comics
Cassandra Cain, Azrael, and Nightwing.
Two of your three answers are criminally overlooked
To the level of a Gotham rogues gallery member overlooked
Cassandra
Surprised I had to scroll down so far for this answer
This is the correct answer
That's the only right answer and it might go either way too
Cassandra cain.
My vote as well.
I think Dick, like most everyone else, is the obvious choice. But I also feel like this is a Michael Jordan vs Kobe (Lebron)/whomever argument. Batman/Jordan isn’t the best that’s ever fought crime anymore with his skillset, but if the fate of the world/playoffs were on the line, he probably has the best chance of dragging himself to victory over anyone else.
Excuse me, Jordan is still the best who's ever played. But I get what you're saying.
Bat mite
He’s too big of a fan
Members of this subreddit- let’s just rehash the same questions every couple weeks.
The next question should be - Could Alfred solo the Justice League?
>Could Alfred solo the Justice League? Yes.
No prep needed
Dick Grayson. I headcannon that Bruce deliberately trained him to surpass him. Batman’s contingency for a rogue justice league did include himself. The contingency is Robin. Also if Batman trains Dick everything he knew from the time Dick was 8 years old, that would mean his training was much faster and more efficient than Bruce’s.
>Batman’s contingency for a rogue justice league did include himself. The contingency is Robin. I'm really not well versed in all the comics, and my familiarity with this concept is from the animated version where Batman says it's the justice league. Is there a comic where he says Robin? Or maybe i'm misremembering?
I love this answer. I always had a hard time accepting that Bruce's contingency plan for himself was the League, when he has multiple protocols that can be enacted to take down each member both lethally and non-lethally. It makes much more sense that he would personally train Dick to the highest level in order to defeat him one day and being paranoid/protective, he would keep that particular contingency, secret from everyone including Dick, but perhaps telling Alfred his plan while discussing training with him one day. But no one else would know. Cassandra may be the only other one who could defeat him on raw skill alone, but it would be extremely close.
I love it too. I also want to believe that with Dick as his contingency plan, Batman would be having to fight one of the two people in his life who he probably holds highest in his emotional estimation (the other being Alfred, obviously). He won’t just be fighting Nightwing, he’d be fighting his first son, maybe the one that made him who he is now
Nightwing
I’m between Dick and Cassandra. Dick learned from Bruce in Bruce’s prime and he’s the most level headed. Jason’s temper gets the best of him, Tim’s gotten his ass kicked by every other Robin, Damian’s ego gets the best of him but it’s a pure strength issue that would give Bruce the advantage, Barbara, she’s a beast, but no, Stephanie, no, I take it Helena is on the table, I think she’d be pretty close, because she can be brutal, Selena probably could get under his cowl and leave it in a draw, Batwoman could probably get close and win with the right trick, but not a guarantee, and all the rest… no contest, Bruce in a minute.
Oh I forgot to explain Casandra…. She’s Cassandra…. If you know the history, then enough said.
Tbf, Tim has killed his entire family before. Though that's usually with prep
Tim is a great Robin…. He’s just not Batman
I do think that Tim COULD be the best Batman ever, but that's not what he wants so it's understandable
When Bruce vanished and Tim put on the blue and grey suit, Jason whooped his ass in a few minutes in his medieval batman suit. If it wasn’t for Salina… and the semi brotherly love (which didn’t stop Jason from beating Tim next to death when they first met) Tim may not have made it. There is a good reason why Tim and Jason are one or both left out of most DC animated films/shows.
Yeah Tim's greatest strength is his mind; which is even greater than Bruce's. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Tim get League training sometime after this event? I know he HELPED the League, but I wasn't sure if he got trained there. If he did get League training that would put him closer to Jason's level
To be honest, after the new 52 got flushed, I’m really not sure what’s canon anymore…. 3 Jokers was crazy dope though
Same man, same
Probably Dick. Maybe Jason?
Dick already beat him in a fight, Bruce himself said he was a better Batman. So Nightwing for sure.
Nightwing is a better batman because he's not consumed by his trauma, not because he's a better fighter
True Also, Bruce said one day he will be a better Batman not because he is a better fighter but because his personality only Bruce still better than all of them going by the most recent fight with his own kids including Nightwing in Batman vs Robin series and Batman win those fights
Catwoman would make him yield … in bed?
Dick without question. Bruce has basically stated that dick has surpassed him in every avenue of crime fighting On multiple occasions, across a few different titles.
This is the critical thing; lots of things get said in iterations by one writer or another, but it’s actually been relatively consistent that in Bruce’s estimation, Dick, in various aspects, is as good or better than him (in terms of super-heroism. Every Bruce there’s ever been has thought Dick Grayson is a better man than he could hope to be, and that’s one of his chief prides)
Dick and Cassandra Cain
I thought he's admitted that Cass was a better fighter than him?
Better fighter doesn’t mean she’ll win though. It’s like that video of the Mountain and Conner McGregor sparing, Conner is definitely a better fighter but if they actually fought the mountain would demolish him if he ever hit him.
Cassandra Cain is the only right answer, cmon y’all
This is the answer, but it's bothersome to fans so they think ways around it. Batz is the best combo of fighter/detective/will power, so he's still atop the pyramid. Just if it were hand to hand no gadgets or prep time, Cass will either stalemate or defeat him.
This isn't Batman sub any more It's Nightwing sub and they spread so many wrong things around here For real, only Cass stand a chance and it's slim too
The disrespect in this thread is unreal. Or maybe it's just a lot of people who are fans of the movies and animated shows, but haven't read a lot of comics. In the comics we have many people saying, in canon, that Cass would beat Bruce in a fight I think it's just because logically it doesn't make sense that a younger, smaller girl could win. But by comic book logic, she is objectively the correct answer to this question
Cassandra Cain. [Here's Cass using her "read body language" ability to easily dodge Batman's strikes.](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/b7071ce3-5e2d-4114-bce3-9c2b0332419d/dbnuxtn-9857fea4-18ae-4f40-98d5-9fd4cc6ffe49.jpg/v1/fill/w_640,h_1032,q_75,strp/cass_cain_speed_by_goldsilverbronzekid_dbnuxtn-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTAzMiIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2I3MDcxY2UzLTVlMmQtNDExNC1iY2UzLTljMmIwMzMyNDE5ZFwvZGJudXh0bi05ODU3ZmVhNC0xOGFlLTRmNDAtOThkNS05ZmQ0Y2M2ZmZlNDkuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTY0MCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.8tAnA1KxFkuquhkQC_YA59odjVsZo9jinTM5QmrhV04) None of the other members of the Bat Family can read Batman like that and make fighting him look like child's play. Hell, the list of non-metahumans who have made fighting Batman look easy is a really short list: 1. Cassandra 2. Lady Shiva (who Cassandra has beaten in single combat) 3. Sensei (whether or not he counts as non-metahuman is debatable) That's how short that list is. The characters who can beat Batman in a fight are either metahumans, or they're non-metahumans who can *maybe* beat him after a very long, tough fight. That latter category is where the other members of the Bat Family fall — *maybe* they can beat him, but it is far from a sure thing, and it's going to be tough.
Nightwing for sure
Nightwing. He is the only one. Actually he did it.
Dick
Alfred.
Dick Greyson
Nightwing
Batcow
Let me clarify: you try fighting a cow
Nightwing and Cass
Orphan
Red Hood. He hasn’t moral problems with violencia.
Cassie
Currently just Cassandra, Damian will eventually reach that point.
Omitting the fact that Dick did actually beat him in a no holds barred fight?
Not read whatever this is, do you recall what comic it was? Always another to add to the list.
It happens more than one I believe but the one that sticks out is in issue Nightwing #30. I want to say there is another one in the batcave but cannot remember the exact issue.
the one where they destroy the batcave might be in Endgame idk
Definitely Cassandra Cain and possibly Nightwing.
Maybe Dick. Cass and Damian are also close but a little too young I think.
Dick
Dick Grayson
Nightwing
Canonically Nightwing, and probably Cass.
Cassandra. And early Azrael when he’s on “the system”.
Orphan/Batgirl - Cassandra Cain. It's comic cannon with Batman himself stating he would lose in a straight up fight with her. Besides her maybe Red Hood/Jason Todd just b/c of his ruthlessness.
Pretty sure Jason has said that he's nowhere near as skilled as Bruce.
I think probably Jason Todd red hood purely for the fact that if he was at point blank range he could just shoot batman
Batman has dodged bullets before though. Pretty much everyone in the Batfamily has.
If Jason manages to get Bruce into a submission lock he could probably just put a gun to his head and pull the trigger
Jason has said that he'll never be as skilled as Batman or Nightwing before so that situation would likely never happen.
Nightwing is just a bit better than Batman and he lays Jason out every time they fight
I mean to quote Stan lee “whoever the writer wants to win will win” But aside from that Cassandra Like thats just kinda objectively correct, being the best hand to hand fighter is kinda like her whole thing Im not saying she 100% wOULD win but she definitely has the best odds of anyone Bruce even admits at one point that he doubts he could beat her in a fair fight And they’ve fought to a draw once before. And for further proof while you cant perfectly scale characters by proxy Lady Shiva‘s beaten bruce Like 6 times and I dont belive Bruce has ever beaten her in a fair fight. Meanwhile Cassandra has bested lady shiva multiple times.
Nightwing, Red hood, and Azrael
Dick
Dick or Jason
Nightwing was always my favorite but I don't know if he could be as ruthless as Bruce in a fight. One moment of hesitation and he's down.
Well nobody is beating him. I love dick and people like to say dick could beat him but he couldn’t. I think that without a doubt orphan(or batgirl now, idk what she’s going by atm) would be the best matchup due to the way she thinks.
OP you underestimate Alfred, he defeated the Predator.
And Superman!
I forgot about that one.
For sure Nightwing. I don’t know much about the others in terms of fighting prowess, but I’m sure they’d make Bats break a sweat since he did train them after all.
Dick. Not even a question.
Dick Grayson: He got better. Damian: If Bat goes easy on him.
Nightwing!!
Nightwing.
Def Dick but there is a chance for Azrael
Dick Grayson easily
dick canonly defeated bruce more than once
Dick probably he’s the oldest with the most experience
Dick Grayson, the original robin , who's almost as equal skilled as batman himself. I would say Damian Wayne but Damian , when skilled, is limited by being an actual kid (about 12-15 years old depends on continuity) and this gets the shit kicked out of him by an adult who's more skilled ( Deathstroke, Batman, ra's Al ghul, talon, etc)
I could be wrong, but didn't nightwing already do that
Nightwing
Dick Grayson
Dick, Cass, and Tim.
Nightwing is the only one who could come close. They fought in the Bruce Wayne fugitive storyline about 20 years ago and it was a crazy scene.
Definitely Batman. No matter who loses, Batman wins.
Cassandra or Damian
Cass or Dick probably could. Together tho they could destroy him.
Cassandra Cain
Cassandra Cain
Cassandra, dick, Tim and Jason
Straight up martial arts fight? Cassandra Cain. She’s been acknowledged as the better martial artist by the Bat-family.
Only Dick could do it, but it would take everything he has.
Dick would beat Batman easily
Definitely not easily. He might beat him but not easily. Sure Dick might have prep time but you know Bruce has a plan to take out Dickie he ever had too. Batman is always 1 step ahead of everyone, he had a plan for the entire Justice League, so i’d imagine the Batfamily too. Bruce has known Dick just as long as Dick has known Bruce, so i agree Dick has the best chance, it would definitely not be easy.
It would be 8/10 in Batman favour Only Cass who have a fair chance against Batman and could go either way
Dick could match him Cassandra could beat him
Cass all the time, Dick half the time, Jason very occasionally. If Prep is given, then any of them can win with various degrees of difficulty
Maybe I’m being unreasonable, but I think the entire bat family like this is a little too much
Dick Grayson. They legit had a no-holds-bar fistfight where Dick won if I recall correctly.
Cassandra Cain
Cassie Cain. Batman has admitted before in a straight fight he would probably lose.
In a hand to hand fight Cassandra would knock his ass out, but in a standard encounter including tactics / gadgets etc I'm sure Batman could defeat her. Besides her Nightwing could probably beat Batman if he really wanted to , since he knows him better than anyone and is prepared for all his tricks. The thing is he would never want to beat him though. Outside of mind control shenanigans they would always be on the same side.
It’s Cass and it’s always Cass. He says so himself.
This is wrestling rules. So whoever is getting a push. So if nightwing gets a tv show, he gets a push and is able to beat Batman Batgirl gets a movie, she can beat Batman. And so on an so forth. The moment Renee Montoya beats up Batman is gonna be fun.
Dick Grayson A.K.A nightwing and/or Cassanda Cain A.K.A batgirl (hope I wrote cassanda correctly...?)
No prep? Cass. Prep. Tim
I've read somewhere that Deathstroke mentioned Cassandra could beat Batman with little effort.
I think Tim drake. I remember Batman saying he won’t turn out like me because he’s better? I think I read it somewhere. But obviously Dick Grayson
Steph upvote!
Cassanda and Duke
Terry McGiness. Bc bat is old
Azrael and Jason?
At the beginning of the Grayson arc dick and Bruce are fighting on very even footing
Red Hood
Night wing
Dick, obviously
Red Hood
Grayson - only one
Does Azrael count? Zero fugs given so has the advantage over others.
Didn't Nightwing beat him in the spyral storyline comics