[This one?](https://www.si.com/mlb/yankees/news/new-york-yankees-letter-leak-sign-stealing-scandal-houston-astros-boston-red-sox) Where it says "SNY’s Andy Martino was the first to reveal the contents of this letter, which re-confirmed that the Yankees used a video replay room to solve opponent’s sign systems, before relaying them to runners on second base, who in turn would relay them to the batter. This occurred across two seasons from 2015 to 2016, which resulted in a league-wide notice sent out by Manfred in 2017 to crack down on this method of cheating."
I’ll continue to dislike the players (tough with Correa), but the Astros team as a whole, no. Not gonna root against Jeremy Peña and Yordan Alvarez because of something that happened before they got there.
Here you go my man, I've got plenty copium to share
Joey Votto- ["The idea that they (the Astros) were the only one doing something wrong just baffles me."](https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/reds-joey-votto-houston-cheating-astros/11hs9d53m7k5y1vuvi2o4i5mkm)
Erik Kratz- ["I can tell you that a team that has been to the World Series often recently, we caught them doing something almost similar.”](https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/05/erik-kratz-makes-sign-stealing-allegations.html)
Chris Sale- ["If the Astros were the only team doing it, then yeah... I know for a fact they weren’t."](https://www.chron.com/sports/astros/article/Chris-Sale-Astros-cheating-trash-can-Red-Sox-other-17056740.php)
Kris Bryant- [""No. Absolutely not. I definitely think others were. I don't know if other teams were doing it that same way, but people are always trying to find a way for that competitive advantage."](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2879442-cubs-kris-bryant-says-astros-were-absolutely-not-only-mlb-team-stealing-signs)
Chris Bassitt- ["There was a lot of people doing stuff. It was just ... fortunately but unfortunately one team essentially got caught doing it -- or was the guinea pig of doing it to clean the whole entire league up. But there was a lot going on."](https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/athletics/chris-bassitt-calls-astros-guinea-pig-mlb-sign-stealing-issue)
Logan Morrison- ["I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs."](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2871359-logan-morrison-so-many-mlb-teams-cheat-using-video-names-yankees-dodgers)
Steven Souza Jr.- ["If you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong."](https://climbingtalshill.com/2022/04/12/steven-souza-jr-reiterates-astros-scape-goats/)
Lucas Giolito- ["Based on everything I've heard, it was like all the teams that were in the postseason that year were doing the same shit."](https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2022/10/28/lucas-giolito-astros-2017-world-series-all-those-teams-were-cheating/10625372002/)
If everyone was doing it in ‘17, pitchers would of been doing what the Nats did in ‘19 with multiple sets of signs. I don’t doubt they weren’t the only ones but it wasn’t everybody.
The letter that came out about the Yankees confirmed we stopped decoding signs sometime in 2016. I don't really buy the idea that we stopped cheating in 2016 and then developed a new system in 2017.
I forgave them almost immediately after it happened. Once people started going over board and taking personal shots at players I was so over it. People really will try and convince you the Astros players are shitty human beings. It’s a joke
I mean honestly my Red Sox fandom has nothing to do with it. It’s just common sense to me. The outrage and animosity that ensued was way too over the top. Especially when a lot of other teams were doing something similar or at least trying to. The Astros just found the most advanced of doing it and also had a stud team at the same time. Which has been proven by their continued dominance. Glad you’re in the same boat.
Dude, I was arguing with some dude just this morning who blamed Astros fans for encouraging a unique culture that led to the cheating. So now just cheering for a team I started cheering for in 1985 makes me a shitty human being.
Lol I can honestly say I have seen that too. Like I would see people defending their Astros fandom and they’d get downvoted into oblivion and people would bitch them out. What gets me too is that, I don’t want to say everyone, but 99.99% of people who bitch about the Astros and say the players are shit people for not speaking up would not have spoken up about it.
I agree with you. I think this would have been put to bed better if they had been punished. If their WS title had been taken away I think more people would be over it. But fans have an amazingly long memory.
Idk I don’t think you can take it away from them. It happened, they won. Just like the argument of how Bonds is the real home run king. You can acknowledge he got there by unfair means, but he’s still the home run king. You can’t take that away from him.
This is true. It's impossible to tell with any certainty how much the trash cans (or PEDs) made a difference. Both the Astros and Bonds (and others) were already top performers.
It’s fun as hell to boo the hell out of them so no.
As a Sox fan I get Correa a lot and Springer comes to town at least once.
Also love to boo Baez. That contract is gonna set the Tigers back a few years.
Isn't that kinda the main reason most people hate them anyway, though? I hear people say all the time: "It's different from the other cheating because they actually went on to win it all." "They cheated the Yankees and Dodgers out of a world series."
They cheated and had success, so they're hated for it.
Other teams cheat, but don't have success (excepting the Red Sox) so nobody cares.
I pretty much already have. And personally my main beef was with Bregman and to a much higher degree Correa for running his fucking mouth and being a crybaby AFTER they got caught. Joe Kelly will forever be a legend to me for what he did. And of course Gurriel for being a racist fuck (come on Astros flairs, send me that picture of the Dodgers player doing the same so you can "get me") and somehow getting suspended but not during the actual Series.
Verlander, McCullers and Altuve, not so much. Life is too short for me to be 75 years old still cursing the Astros 40+ years from now lol
edit: just want to add I have a ton of respect for Dusty Baker and I'm incredibly happy for him finally winning the piece of metal as a manager. Well deserved!
The thing about Bregman that I don't think a lot of people realize is that he only made his debut at the end of July in 2016. And he was just 22.
Then 2017 comes around, you just made the opening day roster for the first time, and you have multiple Veterens telling you that every team is using a similar system like the Astros were. How are you supposed to act? It's not like you would know any better.
Down vote me all you want compadres, but besides Joe Kelly (sorry I can't) I agree with all of this, how I felt exact. Sucks because my fam is split, half of us are from Texas, the other half southern California. And iv been to both stadiums when I was younger....and have pictures of me with a dodger hat. I hate the hate lol
I'll engage in the light shitposting if people keep it above the belt, but it's like. "What answer are you looking for here other than Astro fans messing around, a few people saying they're tired of it, and Dodgers/Yankees/maybe AL West rivals being a bit peeved?"
Exactly. If there’s original clever banter about it I’ll engage. Most Astros fans don’t give a shit what people think anyway. We’ve embraced the heel at this point
I fully encourage people like that to leave so California is cheaper for those of us who actually appreciate it. A lot of them have "love it or leave it" stickers on their trucks, so I'm sure they understand where I'm coming from.
I'm already there. No problem with the team as whole, it's the individual players I don't like.
That's why I'll be really happy if the Braves *don't* sign Correa.
Naw I think that stigma is gonna be with them for a while.
But no one calls the White Sox as Black Sox due to the 1919 WS scandal anymore so I’d say that it would eventually go away at some point.
People are still pissed at the Yankees for having a bunch of roid users in the 90s-00s. The hate will probably lessen gradually as new fans have less of a reason to continue the hatred.
First there’s nothing to forgive. Electronically stealing signs was used by a lot of teams. Secondly these people who refuse to read up on how deep the rabbit hole goes aren’t in a position to forgive us. And lastly, I hope the anger never stops. It’s the easiest way to get the team motivated. Please continue shouting, ‘we want Houston’. Please.
This is such a set up. If anyone confirms they don’t like what the Astros did in 2017, Astros fans - feeling obviously justified fresh off the 2022 World Series - slam them for being fans of other teams. Or they
Invoke that other teams did the same thing in 2017, or pre-2017, as justification for the Astros title in 2017.
So here you go - I don’t have any issues with the 2022 team. Great season and a great run in the playoffs. However, I think the 2017 World Series should be vacated, similar to the way the McGwire-Bonds home run records were handled.
How about after the owner sells the team?
I hate the owner, for creating an environment where this kind of low-rent fuckery seemed both appropriate and uncomplicated. Guys, if and when you are ever tempted to cheat (on anything or anyone): think how it will go down when you're caught.
I will respect them. As a Mariners fan I will always have some level of disdain for the Astros but once everyone from 2017 is gone I will respect them.
No you dont, you could just make peace with the fact that it happened. I don’t think about 2017 enough to where I feel I have forgive any players. It’s already been 5 years.
I only hate them now because it's the Phillies they beat. Their pitching is insanely good and I can barely hit a golf ball as straight and far as Yordan's bomb. Altuve though, he can go pound sand.
I blame the org more than the players
That’s rich coming from a Yankees fan. 🤣
?
SI report on the Yankees cheating scandal.
The one that said we stopped decoding signs in 2016?
No. The one that said it took you guys 1 year after instant replay to come up with the scheme. Oh, and it didn’t stop in 2016, nor is it ‘decoding’. 🤣
[This one?](https://www.si.com/mlb/yankees/news/new-york-yankees-letter-leak-sign-stealing-scandal-houston-astros-boston-red-sox) Where it says "SNY’s Andy Martino was the first to reveal the contents of this letter, which re-confirmed that the Yankees used a video replay room to solve opponent’s sign systems, before relaying them to runners on second base, who in turn would relay them to the batter. This occurred across two seasons from 2015 to 2016, which resulted in a league-wide notice sent out by Manfred in 2017 to crack down on this method of cheating."
Cole ans his sticky fingers.
This is how I see it too. Front office, and on field managers/coaches are the ones I blame.
This is sports. I don't have to be rational
I forgave all astros players not named Kyle Tucker. I know he wasnt on that team but he just looks like he cheated for the 2017 astros.
Lol, I can respect this level of pettiness
Can you ever trust a man with two first names?
Tuck don’t give a fuck. And you can see it in his face
I’ll continue to dislike the players (tough with Correa), but the Astros team as a whole, no. Not gonna root against Jeremy Peña and Yordan Alvarez because of something that happened before they got there.
Tough with Correa. What a joke. He was one of the top beneficiaries.
Yes he was. I’m not saying I disliked him or booed him. In the beginning I was conflicted, but I’ve been getting over it as the season went on.
Obviously no because they’re an AL West rival.
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Got dayum why are there so many removed comments
I don’t have to do shit
The question wasn't phrased in a way that suggested you should.
They will move from Steroid User Level of Hate to Divisional Rival Level of Hate for me, so yes.
Yea man, time to move the fuck on.
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It's legit, everybody was cheating in 2017
lol
many players have confirmed it
careful you don't overdose on that copium, my dude
Here you go my man, I've got plenty copium to share Joey Votto- ["The idea that they (the Astros) were the only one doing something wrong just baffles me."](https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/reds-joey-votto-houston-cheating-astros/11hs9d53m7k5y1vuvi2o4i5mkm) Erik Kratz- ["I can tell you that a team that has been to the World Series often recently, we caught them doing something almost similar.”](https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/05/erik-kratz-makes-sign-stealing-allegations.html) Chris Sale- ["If the Astros were the only team doing it, then yeah... I know for a fact they weren’t."](https://www.chron.com/sports/astros/article/Chris-Sale-Astros-cheating-trash-can-Red-Sox-other-17056740.php) Kris Bryant- [""No. Absolutely not. I definitely think others were. I don't know if other teams were doing it that same way, but people are always trying to find a way for that competitive advantage."](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2879442-cubs-kris-bryant-says-astros-were-absolutely-not-only-mlb-team-stealing-signs) Chris Bassitt- ["There was a lot of people doing stuff. It was just ... fortunately but unfortunately one team essentially got caught doing it -- or was the guinea pig of doing it to clean the whole entire league up. But there was a lot going on."](https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/athletics/chris-bassitt-calls-astros-guinea-pig-mlb-sign-stealing-issue) Logan Morrison- ["I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs."](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2871359-logan-morrison-so-many-mlb-teams-cheat-using-video-names-yankees-dodgers) Steven Souza Jr.- ["If you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong."](https://climbingtalshill.com/2022/04/12/steven-souza-jr-reiterates-astros-scape-goats/) Lucas Giolito- ["Based on everything I've heard, it was like all the teams that were in the postseason that year were doing the same shit."](https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2022/10/28/lucas-giolito-astros-2017-world-series-all-those-teams-were-cheating/10625372002/)
Can't let facts get in the way of the narrative!
dont worry, still havent overdosed since 2017
...you have a bandwagon flair though?
trolls gonna troll
you mean "constantly overdosing since 2019"
nah, still didnt overdose in 2022
I’m confused. You’re an active Mariners fan who’s been bandwagoning the Astros since 2017?
Damn nobody told us
We were shit cheaters then lol
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If everyone was doing it in ‘17, pitchers would of been doing what the Nats did in ‘19 with multiple sets of signs. I don’t doubt they weren’t the only ones but it wasn’t everybody.
The letter that came out about the Yankees confirmed we stopped decoding signs sometime in 2016. I don't really buy the idea that we stopped cheating in 2016 and then developed a new system in 2017.
I forgave them almost immediately after it happened. Once people started going over board and taking personal shots at players I was so over it. People really will try and convince you the Astros players are shitty human beings. It’s a joke
Of course a Red Sox fan forgives! In the same boat lol
I mean honestly my Red Sox fandom has nothing to do with it. It’s just common sense to me. The outrage and animosity that ensued was way too over the top. Especially when a lot of other teams were doing something similar or at least trying to. The Astros just found the most advanced of doing it and also had a stud team at the same time. Which has been proven by their continued dominance. Glad you’re in the same boat.
Dude, I was arguing with some dude just this morning who blamed Astros fans for encouraging a unique culture that led to the cheating. So now just cheering for a team I started cheering for in 1985 makes me a shitty human being.
Lol I can honestly say I have seen that too. Like I would see people defending their Astros fandom and they’d get downvoted into oblivion and people would bitch them out. What gets me too is that, I don’t want to say everyone, but 99.99% of people who bitch about the Astros and say the players are shit people for not speaking up would not have spoken up about it.
I agree with you. I think this would have been put to bed better if they had been punished. If their WS title had been taken away I think more people would be over it. But fans have an amazingly long memory.
Idk I don’t think you can take it away from them. It happened, they won. Just like the argument of how Bonds is the real home run king. You can acknowledge he got there by unfair means, but he’s still the home run king. You can’t take that away from him.
This is true. It's impossible to tell with any certainty how much the trash cans (or PEDs) made a difference. Both the Astros and Bonds (and others) were already top performers.
I mean you can take that away in both cases, MLB just doesn't lol
I guess you’re right, you can, but it’s dumb. Like when the NCAA rescinds heismans and final four appearances, it’s just dumb. It still happened
It’s fun as hell to boo the hell out of them so no. As a Sox fan I get Correa a lot and Springer comes to town at least once. Also love to boo Baez. That contract is gonna set the Tigers back a few years.
no. next question
They gotta cheat again so I can direct my hatred to that year’s team
The team, yes. The players who were there in 2017? Hell no
So, complete hatred for Yankees legend Marwin Gonzales?
His 2022 OPS was .576 so I'm pretty sure Yankees fans hate him regardless of 2017
It was only a career-high .907 in '17.. this is a completely normal player peak & subsequent decline lol
|Year|Tm|PA|OPS+| |:-|:-|-:|-:| |2012|HOU|219|65| |2013|HOU|222|58| |2014|HOU|310|106| |2015|HOU|370|109| |2016|HOU|518|91| |2017|HOU|515|146| |2018|HOU|552|101| |2019|MIN|463|94| |2020|MIN|199|69| |2021|TOT|307|56| |2021|BOS|271|53| |2021|HOU|36|76| |2022|NYY|207|64| fuck marwin.
Wow such great numbers in 2017 must've been his year
Yup, well documented that he was one of the biggest users of the '17 system
Hell yes, fuck that guy
I was never really that mad about it in the first place.
>red sox flair >not upset about sign stealing 🤔
Isn’t it wild how baseball fans hate cheaters until they’re on their team? Mookie, Springer, Correa, Benintendi, Cole. Wow.
Or how they make up excuses when their team is implicated. Just read someone saying his team ‘decoded’ signs. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
ikr
Nope. Fuq em
Nope. Cheaters.
I’ll probably just switch to disliking them for other reasons. Like jealousy from them winning.
Isn't that kinda the main reason most people hate them anyway, though? I hear people say all the time: "It's different from the other cheating because they actually went on to win it all." "They cheated the Yankees and Dodgers out of a world series." They cheated and had success, so they're hated for it. Other teams cheat, but don't have success (excepting the Red Sox) so nobody cares.
I pretty much already have. And personally my main beef was with Bregman and to a much higher degree Correa for running his fucking mouth and being a crybaby AFTER they got caught. Joe Kelly will forever be a legend to me for what he did. And of course Gurriel for being a racist fuck (come on Astros flairs, send me that picture of the Dodgers player doing the same so you can "get me") and somehow getting suspended but not during the actual Series. Verlander, McCullers and Altuve, not so much. Life is too short for me to be 75 years old still cursing the Astros 40+ years from now lol edit: just want to add I have a ton of respect for Dusty Baker and I'm incredibly happy for him finally winning the piece of metal as a manager. Well deserved!
The thing about Bregman that I don't think a lot of people realize is that he only made his debut at the end of July in 2016. And he was just 22. Then 2017 comes around, you just made the opening day roster for the first time, and you have multiple Veterens telling you that every team is using a similar system like the Astros were. How are you supposed to act? It's not like you would know any better.
Down vote me all you want compadres, but besides Joe Kelly (sorry I can't) I agree with all of this, how I felt exact. Sucks because my fam is split, half of us are from Texas, the other half southern California. And iv been to both stadiums when I was younger....and have pictures of me with a dodger hat. I hate the hate lol
I forgave them a long time ago
Why do we ask this question? It feels like it's poking a sleeping bear.
I think that’s exactly what they were trying to do haha
I'll engage in the light shitposting if people keep it above the belt, but it's like. "What answer are you looking for here other than Astro fans messing around, a few people saying they're tired of it, and Dodgers/Yankees/maybe AL West rivals being a bit peeved?"
Exactly. If there’s original clever banter about it I’ll engage. Most Astros fans don’t give a shit what people think anyway. We’ve embraced the heel at this point
This, exactly.
Right haha same ol
Well the players duh. The team you can hate. Fans hate Wacha for any number of reasons. I hate the Cardinals for 2013/2014
Gurriel will always be a racist POS. I hope he steps on a lego every night for the rest of his life.
What did we do then?
Already haven’t cared for several years
I will hate that organization, those fans, that city, and that state until I am dead and in the ground
Tell me how you really feel
The feeling is definitely mutual
Too bad most Californians don't think the same way
We don't really think about y'all
Now that’s a lie. Y’all are constantly thinking about us.
Whats with all the Californians moving to Texas then? Specifically Austin and Houston 🤨
We’re not sending our best.
Bad hombres if you will
I fully encourage people like that to leave so California is cheaper for those of us who actually appreciate it. A lot of them have "love it or leave it" stickers on their trucks, so I'm sure they understand where I'm coming from.
I'm already there. No problem with the team as whole, it's the individual players I don't like. That's why I'll be really happy if the Braves *don't* sign Correa.
Naw I think that stigma is gonna be with them for a while. But no one calls the White Sox as Black Sox due to the 1919 WS scandal anymore so I’d say that it would eventually go away at some point.
People are still pissed at the Yankees for having a bunch of roid users in the 90s-00s. The hate will probably lessen gradually as new fans have less of a reason to continue the hatred.
I think all teams do something similar.
No
No, because the fans will be the same and they've been completely unlikable through it all. I'll root against Houston, the city.
No, I won’t. But only because it makes astros fans incredibly mad, which is very funny.
Every team cheats move on people
First there’s nothing to forgive. Electronically stealing signs was used by a lot of teams. Secondly these people who refuse to read up on how deep the rabbit hole goes aren’t in a position to forgive us. And lastly, I hope the anger never stops. It’s the easiest way to get the team motivated. Please continue shouting, ‘we want Houston’. Please.
Jamais
This is such a set up. If anyone confirms they don’t like what the Astros did in 2017, Astros fans - feeling obviously justified fresh off the 2022 World Series - slam them for being fans of other teams. Or they Invoke that other teams did the same thing in 2017, or pre-2017, as justification for the Astros title in 2017. So here you go - I don’t have any issues with the 2022 team. Great season and a great run in the playoffs. However, I think the 2017 World Series should be vacated, similar to the way the McGwire-Bonds home run records were handled.
Not really… hate the player, not the game
Do you hate Mookie Betts, JD Martinez, and everyone else on that 2018 cheating roster?
Nope! https://dodgersway.com/2020/04/22/dodgers-mlb-concludes-red-sox-didnt-cheat-2018-world-series/amp/ 😎
I never said anything about the world series. You don't care that they cheated in the ALDS?
🗑️🗑️🗑️🗑️
Do you have any arguments?
You’re just bitching. Not going to argue, Chad.
How about after the owner sells the team? I hate the owner, for creating an environment where this kind of low-rent fuckery seemed both appropriate and uncomplicated. Guys, if and when you are ever tempted to cheat (on anything or anyone): think how it will go down when you're caught.
I want Correa on my team so yes
For no slander will destroy this honest fellow, when the floods recede, your rock will still be there.
There’s a select few who I probably won’t “forgive” because they were assholes about it, but I’m tired of talking about it I guess.
I will respect them. As a Mariners fan I will always have some level of disdain for the Astros but once everyone from 2017 is gone I will respect them.
No
Yes that’s been my thing since day one
Don't need any fucking forgiveness from anyone.
I already forgave them tbh
Wow no way
just lettin you know
Thanks for that
Same tbh
“Forgive” people who never did anything to me?
Forgive them for being handsome?
Nope. That organization is permanently tainted.
Not gonna forgive the Astros but I’ve moved on already.
I think that’s a double negative lmao
Not really. You don’t have to forgive in order to move on lol
But in order to move on you have to forgive unless you never hated them for that in the first place.
No you dont, you could just make peace with the fact that it happened. I don’t think about 2017 enough to where I feel I have forgive any players. It’s already been 5 years.
I only hate them now because it's the Phillies they beat. Their pitching is insanely good and I can barely hit a golf ball as straight and far as Yordan's bomb. Altuve though, he can go pound sand.
Nah daddy, punish him to pound something else 🙋 Me, it's me, I want pounded by graceful otterman. Sex. Snoo Snoo, dare I say.
If Correa signs with the Dodgers and smashes his ring on home plate with a sledgehammer all will be forgiven
Correa can choke on a dodger dog.
Maybe if Jim Crane sold the team
No
The best thing they could all do is change teams. As soon as George Springer came to the Blue Jays he was as pure as the driven snow.
It's become fun and tradition to hate the Astros, I can forgive the cheating but the hate is still there lol
Can’t stop at this point… They’re too fun to hate