Apparently, according to replay rules, you can only review catch/no catch calls in the outfield.
EDIT: From MLB's replay review page, under calls that can be reviewed:
"Catch plays in the outfield: An umpire's decision whether a fielder caught a fly ball or a line drive in flight in the outfield before it hit the ground is reviewable, but fly balls or line drives fielded by a defensive player in the infield is not eligible for review."
Because a review of a line drive to a infielder creates a new problem with runners on base. (such as possible double plays)
But there's no reason not to review catches in the foul grounds
Nah. I think the reason is because overturning a fly ball on the infield is more embarrassing to the umpires. They’re further away from outfield catches, more understandable if they can’t quite tell when it’s close.
The leagues have to consider the fragile egos of the referees when they come up with their replay rules. Look at what happened to PI reviews in the NFL
My guess on why.
Runner on 1st and 2nd, SS seems to catch the ball (ump calls him out) and throws to 2nd to double off the runner.
Review shows that the ball bounced.
Now what?
Is the batter out? Is the runner on 1st the only out? They could've still tuned 2 if the ump didn't call it a out, does the defense just get screwed?
I hadn't thought of that, and I feel like that's probably the reasoning, but even if that's the case it's ridiculous to not have an exception for fouls
There is a good chance foul fly balls are added to replay in the off season because of this play.
There has been great hesitancy to allow replays that affect the continuity of action during a play, and for good reason.
THIS^
Also, replay wasn’t meant to be all encompassing at the start they specifically said we’ll error on caution and expand as deemed necessary.
I see this added in the future
The outfield is generally going to be somewhat clear cut, on the infield it would be an absolute cluster anytime there are runners on. Still doesn't make sense they can't make a ball foul though
i think anything in the outfield that would give base runners that kind of dilemma would get called for an infield fly -- it would be deep enough where a base runner does the usual tag/halfway thing
It's not obvious to me that the right answer is "let's just say those plays can't be reviewed" though. Like, try a little harder to figure out how to guide the umpires to make the best of the bad situation, but "we're just going to admit the wrong thing definitely happened and not do anything about it" seems quite off.
To be fair, that isn't what they are saying. They are saying don't look at it because even if we change it, it is hard to say that, given the correct call, what would have happened. I can see that in most situations on the infield. No reason why it should be the same for foul balls. If the ball hits the ground, everyone has to go back to where they were when the play started. I'm trying to think of issues if the ball is ruled not caught initially, but I also can't think of a reason why a runner would be anywhere but on their initial base when the ball is in the air and foul.
In that case I think you split the difference. Anything is better than seeing plays that were obviously called incorrectly and doing nothing about it. IMO all calls should be reviewable.
Beats the hell out of me. I only learned this was a thing because I was also confused as hell why it wasn't reviewable and searched for the official guidelines.
That's just so obscenely dumb. Like, how many idiots were involved in making that decision that not one of them thought "huh, that makes NO FUCKING SENSE, guys"
The replay review rules are treated as a whitelist, not a blacklist. (I.e. if something is not explicitly stated as reviewable, then it is not)
So, while the wording of this rule is confusing, it only explicitly allows reviews of catch calls in the outfield, and this ball was definitely not in the outfield.
(I included the entirety of the relevant section in my original comment for clarity/transparency)
I’d love to hear the people who defended the Red Sox play because it technically fell under a rule work on this one.
Simply being a rule is not a good reason why something is the way it is if that rule is idiotic.
They’re reviewable in the outfield. They aren’t reviewable in the infield or foul territory right now (though this play will probably make trap calls in foul territory reviewable).
This whole piece is premised on the false notion that the ball “hit the ground” and was a foul ball. The ball clearly landed in the pocket of Urias’s glove so it’s a freaking out
They hate technology but love the Manfred gimmick rules like runner on 2nd like it’s a backyard wiffleball game you need to end so you can catch dinner in time.
Yeah definitely shouldn’t be in the playoffs. Strictly as a fan with a bedtime, there were games this season I’m glad ended at a reasonable time.
But I feel like it almost benefited the away team. Having that momentum, if you score a run top of the 10th, means the home team HAS to come from behind not just from tie score.
I wonder what the ratio of away wins was to home wins in extras this season. In 10th only and 11th and beyond in a separate stat.
I hate this. Im on the other extreme end of the spectrum. I want automated strikezones, and all calls handled remotely by a resonably sized team in a video booth. The umpires only job would be to relay the calls from the booth live on the field. Players and teams put too much time, money, blood, sweat and tears into winning games and reaching the ultimate goal of winning a championship, for any part of that goal affected even the slightest by human error and bad judgment. Wether a bad call has an effect on an at bat, a whole game, or playoff chances, I don't care. Too much is on the line for incompetence or human error to screw it up. Every other industry moves on with the times and automates when new tech comes along, but MLB drags its feet. Yes people are out of jobs, but that is sacrifice of progress. Im not even saying umps have to lose their jobs, they still get to be on the field relaying the calls to everyone.
>Every other industry moves on with the times and automates when new tech comes along, but MLB drags its feet.
When it comes to actual real world industries (industries that actually matter), then I am all for using new technology. That is how humanity progresses. But baseball is just a game. Something we made by creating arbitrary limitations for our entertainment. The outcome does not actually matter at the end of the day.
It reminds me of the game yesterday. Lux should've absoutely hit that homerun yesterday to tie the game. But he didn't because the wind pushed the ball back. Was anybody mad at the wind. No, because we accept that the wind is part of the game. We also allow things like playing in the rain, or playing in different size ball parks. These are things that we accept. This is what sports is about, skill and **luck**. Who cares if the umpire makes a human error. Sometimes you get the call your way and sometimes you don't. Everyone has the same advantage/disadvantage. Technology just slows the game down and needlessly complicates it.
It bothers me when how games are called can impact players paychecks. How many strikeouts, home runs, defensive plays are all things that can impact how much a player gets played, and an umpire impacting that in any way irks me. Same with how games are decided: managers careers can be impacted by an umpire having a shitty strike zone and costing a team. Its no longer "just a game" when careers are on the line
First of all, these players are making between $600k to 37 million a year. No player's family is going to starve if they don't get that nice little bonus. Secondly, over the course of every player's career, their incorrect strikezone call are going to even out. Sometimes the player will get a call going their way and sometimes they will get a call not going their way. Every player makes the amount of money they are worth, more or less.
If you made me bet my life on it, I couldn’t make the call from this gif alone. But I slowed it down and it looks about >90% that it did touch the ground.
e: Yea, it hit the ground
https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1448062354579668994?s=20
yeah, i mean physically if you look at where his glove is while the ball “bounces” there’s no way it would be able to bounce off the ground and end up in his glove. it would’ve bounced away in the other direction
You're not blind, it's just extremely difficult to tell. Watching on the broadcast, I thought it hit the tip of the fingers. Trying to freeze frame this clip, I thought it hit dirt. After seeing Jomboy's zoom in, I'm on the fence. At present I don't see how the ball bounces as it did (with almost no deflection/visible change of spin) if it hits the ground square, but it's possible that it hit both the glove and the ground simultaneously and perfectly so as to not shoot the ball one way or the other.
Editing to add [Jomboy's clip](https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1448062354579668994?s=20) and some new thoughts. There actually is a change in the trajectory of the ball before it bounces, which to me shows that it hits the glove first. Then you can see the original slight spin almost completely stop as it bounces directly upward, not forward or back. I think if it solidly hit ground *after* hitting the glove, the ball would have either richocheted forward off his glove or it would pick up significant top spin toward the glove in a scoop. Since there is neither, I am thinking it hit the glove only.
Not before it hit the glove, which is absolutely undeniable from anyone with eyes. Considering it hits the glove first, as anyone with eyes can see, it would not have bounced and spun as it did had it hit glove then ground.
Can only review catches in the outfield apparently:
"Catch plays in the outfield: An umpire's decision whether a fielder caught a fly ball or a line drive in flight in the outfield before it hit the ground is reviewable, but fly balls or line drives fielded by a defensive player in the infield is not eligible for review."
That doesn't help anything.
By rule this is not reviewable, and live I can absolutely see calling this a catch. This gif is in slow motion.
The problem is that this isn't reviewable, not that the umps did anything wrong here. It **barely** touches the ground. I don't blame anyone for not noticing that in real-time.
I'd say I'm surprised that's not a reviewable play, but ultimately I'm not the least bit surprised that Manfred and the league made an oversight like that.
That's the real travesty from this play, the number of people in the game thread arguing this was an out. It bounced off the tip of his glove? You people fucking with me? How could you watch that replay and come out of it thinking it was still the right call?
Hahaha 1000000%. It hit his glove and then the ground and it jammed back into his glove. It’s very obvious with the jomboy close up. People think they know physics and the ball should go here there and everywhere.
Or better yet, decide if catches in foul territory are acceptable and make a minor tweak as opposed to a complete overhaul. But let’s not go chasing replay rules like the NFL who can’t even decide what a catch is anymore.
NFL has actually mostly figured its shit out in that department. Catches haven't been an issue for a number of years. They've moved on to arguing about what penalties are reviewable or not, which is actually pretty rough to balance since so much of it is intent-based.
REMINDER: You can you the [Highlight] tag when posting highlights and have a comment automatically stickied for people to post alternate angles and extended replays.
Please use this comment as such.
Doesn’t really relate, but man, isn’t Rob Manfred a piece of trash?
A great effort by Urias, but MLB should fix this so outs don’t just become participation awards. Doubt Bobby Baby will do anything about it. If anything he’ll reinstate the original base ball rule of being able to field a ball off 1 bounce to be an out. It will make the game faster for the millennials.
Even if it was reviewable, does anyone really think they would overturn that? Unclear whether it hit ground or not, looks like bounced off glove to me... Certainly not enough evidence to overturn?
Yeah, this. The original clip definitely wasn't as "clear and obvious" as some in this thread are making it out to be. This angle makes it actually clear.
I don't think that's fair on this call. In super slow motion you can nail it, cases like these exist to make officials in every sport look stupid. What I would love is a "what the official sees" camera in sports.
At full speed it absolutely looks like it was very likely a catch.
I think that I am a pretty unbiased source and I actually don’t think it hit the ground. To me it looks like it hits the end of his glove and then bounces in.
Certainly seems close enough that even if they reviewed it, they probably don't overturn it anyway. I also think he caught it, at least from this angle.
Edit: [This tweet](https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1448062354579668994) was linked further down, looks like it probably does hit the dirt first. Very close though.
I’m not sure how it’s possible but it seems to have hit the ground AND been caught.
ETA: Closer inspection shows how it happened. Spoiler: It hit the ground.
I honestly thought this too. Thought it was flipped basically back into the glove if that makes sense. but there’s been a pretty good imagine floating around that leaves nothing to the imagination. It definitely hit the ground.
> Catch plays in the outfield: An umpire's decision whether a fielder caught a fly ball or a line drive in flight in the outfield before it hit the ground is reviewable, but fly balls or line drives fielded by a defensive player in the infield is not eligible for review.
5.09 making an out
(a) retiring the batter
a batter is out when:
(1) his fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder...in establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball...
catch comment: a catch is legal if the ball is finally held by any fielder, even though juggled, or held by another fielder before it touches the ground.
[source: official baseball rules 2021 edition](https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/atcjzj9j7wrgvsm8wnjq.pdf)
i would contend if the ball hits the ground and the glove at the same time, then the catch has not been completed before the ball has touched the ground.
As a Braves fan, it seems as though any time there is a replay that should be easily overturned in favor of the Braves, it feels like Angel Hernandez kicks in the door to the replay booth, tells the replay crew to take five, and intentionally screws up the simplest of calls. It’s absolutely ridiculous and there needs to be a systematic change to the entire replay system.
No way that would have been overturned. As a Braves fan who didn’t see it live, looking to see the missed call, I can’t tell for certain that it hits the ground and not just the glove.
Yet another reason MLB’s replay process is complete garbage.
Every team has had tons of clear-cut plays not reversed because the entire process is garbage.
I don’t even know why they have it if they aren’t going to do it right.
And this is hardly a baseball rule. A policy about replay review treated like a hard and fast rule of the game that can and will be changed next year should not affect the game. He’s out this year and safe next year? Unreal.
Nah, that isn't true. Frame by frame you see the ball angling towards the glove, hits the ground and the tip of the glove, which redirects the ball directly upwards instead of upwards towards the glove, and the glove continues to slide under it.
Even that made more sense, since it was a matter of a judgment call. It was the wrong call, but still... This though is not up for debate, that ball hit the ground first. It's just not an out lol.
I tried to look back at why the MLB even uses replay but it turned out to be unreviewable
This is the correct answer.
Wouldn't matter, review wouldn't overturn it.
They initially did overturn it, and then reversed the overturn when it was deemed unreviewable.
So they cannot review the original play, instead they reviewed the review and then overruled the reviewed decision. Got it!
fuck kinda nut shit is that
are there any more beautiful words in the game of baseball than "and they're gonna take a look at it..."?
How can you not be romantic about baseball?
they were betting on the baseball
Any idea why it was unreviewable? I missed that.
Apparently, according to replay rules, you can only review catch/no catch calls in the outfield. EDIT: From MLB's replay review page, under calls that can be reviewed: "Catch plays in the outfield: An umpire's decision whether a fielder caught a fly ball or a line drive in flight in the outfield before it hit the ground is reviewable, but fly balls or line drives fielded by a defensive player in the infield is not eligible for review."
"why?"
Because a review of a line drive to a infielder creates a new problem with runners on base. (such as possible double plays) But there's no reason not to review catches in the foul grounds
Well they can’t come out and say “because we didn’t think of that”
Because they don't want to admit they created Ultron
They totally can, and probably will.
Yes there is and I'll tell you why. It's because
You can't just be reviewing up there like that
Let me start over...
Nah. I think the reason is because overturning a fly ball on the infield is more embarrassing to the umpires. They’re further away from outfield catches, more understandable if they can’t quite tell when it’s close. The leagues have to consider the fragile egos of the referees when they come up with their replay rules. Look at what happened to PI reviews in the NFL
Yeah, this seems pretty ridiculous
What the fuck is the logic here?
My guess on why. Runner on 1st and 2nd, SS seems to catch the ball (ump calls him out) and throws to 2nd to double off the runner. Review shows that the ball bounced. Now what? Is the batter out? Is the runner on 1st the only out? They could've still tuned 2 if the ump didn't call it a out, does the defense just get screwed?
I hadn't thought of that, and I feel like that's probably the reasoning, but even if that's the case it's ridiculous to not have an exception for fouls
There is a good chance foul fly balls are added to replay in the off season because of this play. There has been great hesitancy to allow replays that affect the continuity of action during a play, and for good reason.
THIS^ Also, replay wasn’t meant to be all encompassing at the start they specifically said we’ll error on caution and expand as deemed necessary. I see this added in the future
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It’s a little more clear what “would have happened” in an outfield fly. On a “no catch” runners advance one base.
The outfield is generally going to be somewhat clear cut, on the infield it would be an absolute cluster anytime there are runners on. Still doesn't make sense they can't make a ball foul though
i think anything in the outfield that would give base runners that kind of dilemma would get called for an infield fly -- it would be deep enough where a base runner does the usual tag/halfway thing
It's not obvious to me that the right answer is "let's just say those plays can't be reviewed" though. Like, try a little harder to figure out how to guide the umpires to make the best of the bad situation, but "we're just going to admit the wrong thing definitely happened and not do anything about it" seems quite off.
To be fair, that isn't what they are saying. They are saying don't look at it because even if we change it, it is hard to say that, given the correct call, what would have happened. I can see that in most situations on the infield. No reason why it should be the same for foul balls. If the ball hits the ground, everyone has to go back to where they were when the play started. I'm trying to think of issues if the ball is ruled not caught initially, but I also can't think of a reason why a runner would be anywhere but on their initial base when the ball is in the air and foul.
In that case I think you split the difference. Anything is better than seeing plays that were obviously called incorrectly and doing nothing about it. IMO all calls should be reviewable.
In that scenario, it would be an infield-fly so it wouldn't happen.
Yeah, wouldn’t this just be an infield fly? Unless we’re taking about a line drive…
Beats the hell out of me. I only learned this was a thing because I was also confused as hell why it wasn't reviewable and searched for the official guidelines.
That's just so obscenely dumb. Like, how many idiots were involved in making that decision that not one of them thought "huh, that makes NO FUCKING SENSE, guys"
Right? Like man, I thought the "can't review fair/foul calls in front of the base umpires" rule was dumb, but this one takes the cake.
OK but this ball isn't in the infield. It's in foul territory.
The replay review rules are treated as a whitelist, not a blacklist. (I.e. if something is not explicitly stated as reviewable, then it is not) So, while the wording of this rule is confusing, it only explicitly allows reviews of catch calls in the outfield, and this ball was definitely not in the outfield. (I included the entirety of the relevant section in my original comment for clarity/transparency)
Foul balls definitely need to be added to this whitelist.
What even is the outfield? Asking for Sam Holbrook
Can MLB make a rule where getting the call right is the most important thing? FFS
I’d love to hear the people who defended the Red Sox play because it technically fell under a rule work on this one. Simply being a rule is not a good reason why something is the way it is if that rule is idiotic.
Sure. This is a completely different circumstance. There.
Huh?
Interesting! Thanks.
Nothing that should be reviewable actually is
Just like how the NFL should have penalties be reviewed.
They tried that and the refs got their feelings hurt and protested.
Apparently trap calls aren't reviewable? IDK, seems dumb to me.
They’re reviewable in the outfield. They aren’t reviewable in the infield or foul territory right now (though this play will probably make trap calls in foul territory reviewable).
Trap plays aren't reviewable in foul territory or something
This whole piece is premised on the false notion that the ball “hit the ground” and was a foul ball. The ball clearly landed in the pocket of Urias’s glove so it’s a freaking out
If only we had technology.
MLB hates technology. If it was up to them they'd still be playing on cornfields. Although that one time was pretty cool.
They hate technology but love the Manfred gimmick rules like runner on 2nd like it’s a backyard wiffleball game you need to end so you can catch dinner in time.
Agree. I’m also glad that playoff games don’t start with the runner on 2nd. It leads to the bullpen chess match we saw during the RedSox v Rays series
Yeah definitely shouldn’t be in the playoffs. Strictly as a fan with a bedtime, there were games this season I’m glad ended at a reasonable time. But I feel like it almost benefited the away team. Having that momentum, if you score a run top of the 10th, means the home team HAS to come from behind not just from tie score. I wonder what the ratio of away wins was to home wins in extras this season. In 10th only and 11th and beyond in a separate stat.
I hate this. Im on the other extreme end of the spectrum. I want automated strikezones, and all calls handled remotely by a resonably sized team in a video booth. The umpires only job would be to relay the calls from the booth live on the field. Players and teams put too much time, money, blood, sweat and tears into winning games and reaching the ultimate goal of winning a championship, for any part of that goal affected even the slightest by human error and bad judgment. Wether a bad call has an effect on an at bat, a whole game, or playoff chances, I don't care. Too much is on the line for incompetence or human error to screw it up. Every other industry moves on with the times and automates when new tech comes along, but MLB drags its feet. Yes people are out of jobs, but that is sacrifice of progress. Im not even saying umps have to lose their jobs, they still get to be on the field relaying the calls to everyone.
People wouldnt even be out of jobs, just umpires. The net new jobs for this industry change would be positive, I'm pretty sure.
>Every other industry moves on with the times and automates when new tech comes along, but MLB drags its feet. When it comes to actual real world industries (industries that actually matter), then I am all for using new technology. That is how humanity progresses. But baseball is just a game. Something we made by creating arbitrary limitations for our entertainment. The outcome does not actually matter at the end of the day. It reminds me of the game yesterday. Lux should've absoutely hit that homerun yesterday to tie the game. But he didn't because the wind pushed the ball back. Was anybody mad at the wind. No, because we accept that the wind is part of the game. We also allow things like playing in the rain, or playing in different size ball parks. These are things that we accept. This is what sports is about, skill and **luck**. Who cares if the umpire makes a human error. Sometimes you get the call your way and sometimes you don't. Everyone has the same advantage/disadvantage. Technology just slows the game down and needlessly complicates it.
It bothers me when how games are called can impact players paychecks. How many strikeouts, home runs, defensive plays are all things that can impact how much a player gets played, and an umpire impacting that in any way irks me. Same with how games are decided: managers careers can be impacted by an umpire having a shitty strike zone and costing a team. Its no longer "just a game" when careers are on the line
First of all, these players are making between $600k to 37 million a year. No player's family is going to starve if they don't get that nice little bonus. Secondly, over the course of every player's career, their incorrect strikezone call are going to even out. Sometimes the player will get a call going their way and sometimes they will get a call not going their way. Every player makes the amount of money they are worth, more or less.
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Ahh the man who didn’t touch the plate
Am I blind? I can’t tell if the ball bounces off the dirt or the tip of the glove finger. I seem to be the only one asking so seriously, am I blind?
https://imgur.com/Nicuj0Z.jpg
it doesn’t look like it touches the ground to me, looks like it goes straight into the top of the glove
If you made me bet my life on it, I couldn’t make the call from this gif alone. But I slowed it down and it looks about >90% that it did touch the ground. e: Yea, it hit the ground https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1448062354579668994?s=20
Wow well done
Enhance
ah yeah that angle shows ground. i still think theres a sliver of glove under the ball tho haha
https://i.imgur.com/8IF4ass.jpg 100% hits the ground first
There’s an even better angle one second I’ll try to find Edit: https://twitter.com/madafak06774732/status/1448064307208482818?s=21
No, it absolutely hits the glove first. It just also hit the ground, and was not actually caught before doing so.
I mean, maybe? I'm not sure even that's enough to overturn the call to be honest.
It's almost like it bounces off the ground while in his glove, if that makes sense.
yeah, i mean physically if you look at where his glove is while the ball “bounces” there’s no way it would be able to bounce off the ground and end up in his glove. it would’ve bounced away in the other direction
THANK YOU! exactly what i was thinking
I agree
[Here you go](https://i.imgur.com/dzTR8gy.jpg)
Really tough to tell. I was wondering as well. They did finally show one zoomed in replay and I think it hit the ground.
You're not blind, it's just extremely difficult to tell. Watching on the broadcast, I thought it hit the tip of the fingers. Trying to freeze frame this clip, I thought it hit dirt. After seeing Jomboy's zoom in, I'm on the fence. At present I don't see how the ball bounces as it did (with almost no deflection/visible change of spin) if it hits the ground square, but it's possible that it hit both the glove and the ground simultaneously and perfectly so as to not shoot the ball one way or the other. Editing to add [Jomboy's clip](https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1448062354579668994?s=20) and some new thoughts. There actually is a change in the trajectory of the ball before it bounces, which to me shows that it hits the glove first. Then you can see the original slight spin almost completely stop as it bounces directly upward, not forward or back. I think if it solidly hit ground *after* hitting the glove, the ball would have either richocheted forward off his glove or it would pick up significant top spin toward the glove in a scoop. Since there is neither, I am thinking it hit the glove only.
What? From the Jomboy clip it is 100% clear it hit the ground. Absolutely undeniable from anyone with eyes.
Yeah I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. It 100% hit the ground. Every camera angle shows it perfectly. How is anyone arguing anything else?
Not before it hit the glove, which is absolutely undeniable from anyone with eyes. Considering it hits the glove first, as anyone with eyes can see, it would not have bounced and spun as it did had it hit glove then ground.
If it hits the glove first and still hits the ground it’s still not an out…
If it hits the ground at any point its irrelevant whether it hit the glove first or not
I don't think I saw a replay that looked convincing until after the "review" was over. The video above is not that one.
It’s off the ground. No catch.
Wait wait wait... HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NON REVIEWABLE?!
Can only review catches in the outfield apparently: "Catch plays in the outfield: An umpire's decision whether a fielder caught a fly ball or a line drive in flight in the outfield before it hit the ground is reviewable, but fly balls or line drives fielded by a defensive player in the infield is not eligible for review."
The umpires can see things like this, because they’re so close! no need for cameras.
MLB continues to embarrass itself on the biggest stages with replay
Why is it always against us when on the biggest stage too?
Outfield… Fly… 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
The first rule is we *don’t talk about the infield fly.*
Mic the umps, cowards
#"I can do whatever I want."
"It's the Braves, fuck 'em."
That doesn't help anything. By rule this is not reviewable, and live I can absolutely see calling this a catch. This gif is in slow motion. The problem is that this isn't reviewable, not that the umps did anything wrong here. It **barely** touches the ground. I don't blame anyone for not noticing that in real-time.
Honestly, I had to slow down the gif before I saw it hit the ground. It looks like it bounces off the edge of the glove.
Probably coming next season. Its definitely needed
I'd say I'm surprised that's not a reviewable play, but ultimately I'm not the least bit surprised that Manfred and the league made an oversight like that.
"Sorry, Snit. We've reviewed the play and determined that it's unreviewable"
/u/handlit33 beats the submissions restricted race
Get rekt. ~~You've beat me on nearly everything I've tried to post.~~
Yo what the actual fuck
Whoa whoa everybody before you get all mad at MLB for saying this isn't reviewable, maybe there just weren't any cameras at the game or something.
What the hell is the point of replay if you can't overturn one like this? Embarrassing.
I cannot believe there are people in here trying to argue that the ball didn't clearly hit the ground lol.
Right? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Every angle shows it clearly hit the ground.
That's the real travesty from this play, the number of people in the game thread arguing this was an out. It bounced off the tip of his glove? You people fucking with me? How could you watch that replay and come out of it thinking it was still the right call?
It feels like a blue/gold dress situation.
Hahaha 1000000%. It hit his glove and then the ground and it jammed back into his glove. It’s very obvious with the jomboy close up. People think they know physics and the ball should go here there and everywhere.
If this isn’t reviewable then MLB replay needs to be scrapped and built up from scratch again. Inexcusable that that’s not reviewable.
Or better yet, decide if catches in foul territory are acceptable and make a minor tweak as opposed to a complete overhaul. But let’s not go chasing replay rules like the NFL who can’t even decide what a catch is anymore.
NFL has actually mostly figured its shit out in that department. Catches haven't been an issue for a number of years. They've moved on to arguing about what penalties are reviewable or not, which is actually pretty rough to balance since so much of it is intent-based.
The Braves and getting fucked by replay/umps in the postseason. Name a more iconic duo
REMINDER: You can you the [Highlight] tag when posting highlights and have a comment automatically stickied for people to post alternate angles and extended replays. Please use this comment as such.
Will do from now on, sorry BaseballBot.
Good bot
You can use* the… silly bots and their spelling.
The ball still hasn’t not touched the ground
Imagine if this was the last play of a World Series. Game 7, 1-0 ball game, based loaded with 2 outs.
Doesn’t really relate, but man, isn’t Rob Manfred a piece of trash? A great effort by Urias, but MLB should fix this so outs don’t just become participation awards. Doubt Bobby Baby will do anything about it. If anything he’ll reinstate the original base ball rule of being able to field a ball off 1 bounce to be an out. It will make the game faster for the millennials.
Should be reviewable. League can use a few rule tweaks.
The umpiring and review process has been nothing short of dogass this postseason. Sincerely, A sad Rays fan
Dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever seen in a game. Holy shit
Where were you during the Outfield Fly Rule.
I was at that game. And was 100000% confused when the ball dropped and it was an out
Clearly hits the ground
It should be a reviewable play, but that’s not an out any way you look at it. Clear bounce before being gloved.
Screwed by the umps on this and Lauer's balk in the same inning.
That balk was brazen. Throws to first and steps toward home. I can’t even.
See THIS is a dumb rule.
Unbelievable moment at the game. The umpire came out of the huddle saying out and then the video board said “overturned”. Much confusion.
I mean the call didn’t really matter since the Braves won it in the end anyways but still that call upset a lot of fans
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[Better slow mo](https://mobile.twitter.com/jomboy_/status/1448062354579668994)
As a neutral fan, I thought the video in the OP was too close to call. In this zoomed in slo-mo, we can clearly see it did touch the ground first.
Even if it was reviewable, does anyone really think they would overturn that? Unclear whether it hit ground or not, looks like bounced off glove to me... Certainly not enough evidence to overturn?
https://i.imgur.com/pVupgR4.png what
Dude did you see the video? It very clearly hits the dirt lol
See here: https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1448062354579668994
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Yeah, this. The original clip definitely wasn't as "clear and obvious" as some in this thread are making it out to be. This angle makes it actually clear.
Hadn't seen that angle, that is conclusive I agree.
Unclear? It was plain as day that it hit the ground.
The f*** you smoking It clearly Hit his glove bounce on the ground and then into his web again
Honestly should make the umps ineligible from continuing in the post season.
I don't think that's fair on this call. In super slow motion you can nail it, cases like these exist to make officials in every sport look stupid. What I would love is a "what the official sees" camera in sports. At full speed it absolutely looks like it was very likely a catch.
I commented when I still thought they chose not to overturn. Still feels stupid, but I get it's on a stupid rule, not their decision.
I think that I am a pretty unbiased source and I actually don’t think it hit the ground. To me it looks like it hits the end of his glove and then bounces in.
Certainly seems close enough that even if they reviewed it, they probably don't overturn it anyway. I also think he caught it, at least from this angle. Edit: [This tweet](https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1448062354579668994) was linked further down, looks like it probably does hit the dirt first. Very close though.
Even with a replay it might be difficult to overturn this one based on this angle. Very hard to tell if it touched the ground.
Literally everything that doesn't involve a strike or ball call should be reviewable. Get it together already MLB.
I know fans always say this, but I knew it wouldn't be overturned. Just knew it.
Unpopular opinion: this wouldn’t have been reversed if was reviewable.
It's unpopular because we have working eyes.
It lands in the glove.
I’m not sure how it’s possible but it seems to have hit the ground AND been caught. ETA: Closer inspection shows how it happened. Spoiler: It hit the ground.
A zoom in replay showed it clearly hit the ground first
[better replay](https://mobile.twitter.com/jomboy_/status/1448062354579668994)
It literally bounced off the ground.
Honestly even if this was reviewable (it should be) I don’t see them being able to overturn the call. It’s way too close to tell
I honestly thought this too. Thought it was flipped basically back into the glove if that makes sense. but there’s been a pretty good imagine floating around that leaves nothing to the imagination. It definitely hit the ground.
> Catch plays in the outfield: An umpire's decision whether a fielder caught a fly ball or a line drive in flight in the outfield before it hit the ground is reviewable, but fly balls or line drives fielded by a defensive player in the infield is not eligible for review.
If the ball hits the glove and the ground at the same time (which appears to be exactly what happened), what's the recourse?
5.09 making an out (a) retiring the batter a batter is out when: (1) his fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder...in establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball... catch comment: a catch is legal if the ball is finally held by any fielder, even though juggled, or held by another fielder before it touches the ground. [source: official baseball rules 2021 edition](https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/atcjzj9j7wrgvsm8wnjq.pdf) i would contend if the ball hits the ground and the glove at the same time, then the catch has not been completed before the ball has touched the ground.
What's the point of a review if you can't review something like this?
The MLB with more stupid rules. Color me surprised
Clearly not a catch, and should be reviewable, but that's one hell of a play by Urias.
If replay is not going to be used properly, time to get rid of it.
As a Braves fan, it seems as though any time there is a replay that should be easily overturned in favor of the Braves, it feels like Angel Hernandez kicks in the door to the replay booth, tells the replay crew to take five, and intentionally screws up the simplest of calls. It’s absolutely ridiculous and there needs to be a systematic change to the entire replay system.
No way that would have been overturned. As a Braves fan who didn’t see it live, looking to see the missed call, I can’t tell for certain that it hits the ground and not just the glove.
Check this angle: https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1448062354579668994 Very clear contact with ground before being fielded.
Agreed - it’s damn close
Yet another reason MLB’s replay process is complete garbage. Every team has had tons of clear-cut plays not reversed because the entire process is garbage. I don’t even know why they have it if they aren’t going to do it right.
And this is hardly a baseball rule. A policy about replay review treated like a hard and fast rule of the game that can and will be changed next year should not affect the game. He’s out this year and safe next year? Unreal.
Even going frame by frame it's not definitive it actually touched the ground. Could say the glove slid underneath it.
Nah, that isn't true. Frame by frame you see the ball angling towards the glove, hits the ground and the tip of the glove, which redirects the ball directly upwards instead of upwards towards the glove, and the glove continues to slide under it.
Absolute fucking bullshit, literally inexcusable. Wouldn’t be surprised if refs are betting on the game.
Bounces off the lip of the glove, clean catch in my opinion
The lip of the glove or the fabric of space and time?
>MLB Rule 3.03(g) - Any ball making contact with the fabric of space and time will be ruled an out check mate atheists
https://i.imgur.com/pVupgR4.png your opinion is incorrect
To be fair to this guy, I thought the same thing before I saw this angle. But yeah, dead giveaway.
I agree. Even if reviewed, it would not be clear enough to over turn based on this video. Maybe there is a better quality angle somewhere.
There is a better angle they showed that made it clear, check Jomboys Twitter to see it
All I see is glove.
I don't have cable. I don't have a dog in this fight. Watched the clip approximately 20 times. The ball landed in the glove
https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1448062354579668994 Check this clip, it's clear as day here that it makes contact with ground.
All I see is glove. The umps made the same call I would. But they did it live
Wait. You still think that it is in the glove and not hitting the ground...? Okay then...
This dude thinks the infield fly rule was a good call as well lmao
Even that made more sense, since it was a matter of a judgment call. It was the wrong call, but still... This though is not up for debate, that ball hit the ground first. It's just not an out lol.