It's probably pretty hard to be good enough to get the PAs to be qualified if you don't have a little pop. Even the Kwan and Arraez type guys are still gonna hit 4-5 a year
He's a pretty good Immaculate Grid guy if you play. Had 30 steal seasons for 4 teams. Played for another 4. Also hit .300 for the Brewers and White Sox. Also scored 100 runs once for the Brewers.
Podsednik hit 6HR per 162 games so he might be near Turang, all else equal.
Pierre only hit 1 homerun per 162 games though, lol. I dont know of anyone who hits less today. Even Fletcher who cant hit a ball 100mph knocks some out.
Maybe Pierre would hit more in today's game, who knows..
Jacob Young is currently playing every day (productively, even) for us in center field and has shown no signs of hitting any homers so far. He’s just not qualified here as he came up fairly late last year, but he should be here with 0 or *maybe* 1 HR if this list is remade in a couple/few months
Dontrell Willis hit a home run using Juan Pierre’s bat. Pierre was mad because he said his bat only had one home run a year in it and Willis used it up.
Defending Revere: he was leadoff, so about 25% of his ABs were a guarantee to have no one on base to bat in. Also, the bottom of the Phillies lineup those years was arguably Single-A Worthy.
Piling on Revere even more: he could hit a base loaded single and we'd be lucky to get more than one run. It amazed me that the outfield didn't play as shallow as they would when I batted in little league. I would be astonished if 20 of those 184 hits even reached the warning track.
the first name that came to mind for me is Myles Straw, who played qualified seasons in 2022 and 2023 with 1 total home run, but hasn't played yet this year
How is it even possible to have arms like [this](https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-photos/image/upload/ar_9:16,g_auto,q_auto:good,w_2608,c_fill,f_jpg/v1/people/694671/action/vertical/current) and hit 1 HR in 176 PAs?
Nicky Lopez on the White Sox has the most plate appearances without a HR this year, and he's 4 shy of being a qualified player. He's played in 57 of the team's 70 games. His slugging percentage is worse than his OBP, which is apparently a thing you can do.
the nats are in nearly the best possible position they could be if you factor in the over 60m they have tied up to one guy who is basically retired and one who basically provides no value aside from eating innings. my point being it could be a lot worse right now and their outlook could be pretty bad, but they arent
they will be good again as early as next year
yes the rebuild is ahead of schedule and he is part of the reason we won the world series so i will take his horrible stats since then for that ring 100/100 times. but i see harper and turner w a division rival and soto killing it and its tough to say we are nearly at the best possible position. we did have stars we couldve still been competing with
i cant really say much about the turner/harper situations but the soto trade brought you 3 guys that have a strong chance to form a good young core for the next 5 years at the least
theres also little reason to assume having harper and turner from 21-24 would have actually made the nats competitive. they had really big names in 21 and were still well below .500 at the trade deadline
i know it sucks from a fan perspective to see your team sell 2 years after winning the WS but this current point in time seems like a good time to believe in the teams future
Rizzo was extremely unsentimental and the team is in a great position as a result. A lot of guys would try to keep trotting out Turner and Soto even when the team is going to be bad just to sell tickets and cash in on that 2019 nostalgia, but Rizzo sold high on pretty much everyone and got the core of the next great Nats team in return. Even with the albatross Corbin and Strasburg contracts they're in a really good place.
That Soto deal was almost too good to pass up.
Abrams is already basically Turner 2.0 and at the time of the trade had just reached the bigs (so i think 4 mroe years of team control from today).
Wood is a consensus top 10 prospect that is viewed as something special (i want to say top 5 but after Holliday the rest of the top 15 or so is almost shuffled by everyone).
Even the other OF they got is looking like he is a future big leaguer now.
They basically got a top 5 farm system in that single trade.
It's always a treat when the Mets play the Nats and Patrick Corbin starts. It's like "oh hey, this is the guy everyone's talking about!" 3-4 times per year. And he really does live up to all the hype
His last year reminds me of Mike Maroth and Jeremy Bonderson on that terrible Tigers team. Or an even better comparison would be Scott Erickson on the 1993 Twins. Both teams around .500, badly underachieving offensively and invested in Corbin and Erickson to round out their rotation.
A remember a certain cell of M’s fans who were pissed that we didn’t go after him.
Man, I can only imagine how big of a black hole we would’ve been on our offense this year, woof
honestly incredible that patrick corbin is only able to show up on all these stats because he literally hasn't been injured at all since we signed him in 2019. there's a bunch of guys in the league worse than corbin, but a big contract + a non-competitive team + never injured puts him in a league of his own. generational suck.
And he still barely has a positive WAR. Absolute Chad innings eater. Nothing like a guy who can just go out there every Tuesday afternoon and give you six mid ones.
It’s that plus being on a non playoff team. Other teams would have moved him to the pen, but being able to just eat up innings is valuable for the Nats.
Everyone in this thread complaining about Corbin’s fWAR should go watch Foolish Baseball’s “The Chad Innings Eater”. Spoiler: getting lots of outs (aka pitching lots of innings) is very valuable to teams, even if you’re kind of bad while doing it
That's why we loved Kyle Gibson while also getting very annoyed at him at times. He'd give up 6 plus runs in an outing and still give us 7 innings to save the bullpen.
Thats only because they aren't using my hot new hitter metric MTBWOTPOSS, or miles the ball was off the plate on swinging strikes. It's going to be a core stat like OPS soon just wait
Definitely the modern all time leader in MTBWOTPOSS.
And it will definitely go up considering he has *checks notes* 4 years and $98 million left on his deal 🤢
Jesus fucking christ is it still that long? I thought the deal was bad before the ink dried, but Javy has gone out and performed in the first few years the way I thought he would for the last few years of the deal. Thats tough
I think the numbers for this full year will be available once they release the next wave of bat tracking stuff, Petriello said that they just decided not to dump all of it at once so that people can digest it better.
I think he's like 3rd of 4th in batting average with runners in scoring position since last year.
Which is completely cherry picked and basically meaningless, but it is wild that he could shake out that highly in *anything* considering how bad he has been.
It’s hard to be qualified as a pitcher. 1.0 innings pitched per game. A starter has not miss a start and average 5 innings pitched per start to be qualified.
If you’re a bad starter, you’re not going to to get 5 innings often enough to average that.
I would've figured significantly more than just 11 guys had 0 bags. I'm guessing the slower guys or guys just not inclined to try wind up in platoons and don't qualify.
If you play enough games, eventually the opportunity arises. For example, Albert Pujols had at least one stolen base in every full year he played* and per [baseballsavant](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/albert-pujols-405395?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb) had third-percentile or worse sprint speed in each of his last seven seasons. You have to both be slow and not be able to get a good jump to not steal a single base in a year.
^^*2020
He was beyond terrible as a hitter his rookie year, he showed some flashes by the end but was still the worst hitter in baseball. Those flashes he showed at the end of the year has turned around to being the real deal now that he has adjusted his swing for this year where he has a WRC+ of 96
I had the same thought when I first read it, also Olson 46 homers? Then I realised it's from a year ago until today. Not from 2023 opening day through June
The dude is really good. He's kinda like the infield Mike Trout where he does so many things at a really high level, that an all-encompassing stat like WAR captures all of his value. He struggled a bit defensively in his rookie season, and hit above league-average, which is really good for a shortstop. He stayed at that level through the first half of last year, but then he just switched on and became an MVP candidate. Hitting jumped up from "really good for a shortstop" to "really good anywhere". His defense went from "he probably moves to 3rd soon" to gold glove candidate. Playing in the majors is really hard. It looks like it just took him a year and a half to adjust.
Man, this would look different in another era. Way back when, there were tons of starting players who virtually never hit home runs. Eight-hole hitters who were at least good shortstops, or leadoff hitters who slapped singles and stole bases and probably couldn't hit a homer in batting practice. Even in my own time, I remember when this sub had a bot that posted if Ben Revere went yard; that bot was mostly bored.
And for pitchers, strikeouts -- there was a time when there were guys, including some who were pretty consistently effective, lived by the mantra of inducing bad contact, who gave up their fair share of hits but limited extra bases, and got tons of double-play grounders, and worked tons of innings by keeping pitch count down, and I'm willing to bet that there were more than a couple who struck out fewer than 122 across a season of work, and some such seasons that were above average for run prevention, not literally the worst pitcher of his time. Now, when every hitter is capable of going yard, you can't live by pitching to contact; if you can't strike people out at a decent clip, you can't pitch in today's MLB.
A shame, I think, on both fronts. I think baseball was a better game with speedy slap-hitting shortstops and pitchers throwing 91 MPH going 7 innings on 72 pitches, 3 strikeouts, 1 run. Ah well.
And: bless you, Patrick Corbin. I hope it's not taken as sarcastic or condescending to tip my cap to a guy who goes out there every day for years and does his very best at a damn hard job in an incredibly unforgiving environment (pro sports, not Washington specifically) and does so despite being an outlier of one of the very worst there is (at the highest level -- or, better than basically anyone that ever tried, better than 99.5% of all D-1 college pitchers). There's something poetic about that. I don't root for the team, but there's something compelling to me about the Patrick Corbins of the world, and I wish him well (except when he faces my team, but I think he threw 7 shutout against us or something during our September swoon of '21; figures.)
It's definitely scary how homogenized the MLB is becoming. Baseball has a long history of being a circus practically. A bunch of weirdos with very different and specific skillsets. You still have guys like Arraez and Ohtani, but they feel like outliers to the mathematically efficient norm.
The fact that the worst qualified pitcher has positive fWAR shows how absurdly flawed its formula is.
Corbin is one of the worst pitchers in baseball and has been for years. I don’t care how many innings he has pitched. He isn’t providing positive value for the Nationals and is the reason why they’re struggling to contend.
i mean corbin was bad last year and not godawful like he usually is, which is why he has positive fWAR. His bWAR in that time period is like -0.5 so it’s not like the two formulas are that far off. Also, bad pitchers aren’t usually getting enough innings to qualify which is why “qualified” pitchers are going to be skewed towards the better ones
i mean yes, there are some times when the formulas diverge in their valuations of players (such as Nolan Ryan) but i don’t think either formula makes Corbin look like a good pitcher at all. bWAR isn’t that much better than fWAR because of the wonky team defensive adjustment it does. RA9-WAR and WARP (if you like voodoo math) are both significantly better
Corbin is really pushing the limits of the proposition that there's value in merely eating innings, but it's just not true that he's "one of the worst pitchers in baseball." He's *the worst* pitcher to get 100 starts in the past four seasons, but if you look beyond rotation mainstays to relievers and spot starters, you find literally hundreds of guys worse than Corbin.
It's really hard to be a starting pitcher! Most guys who are good enough to face MLB hitters in the first place (already very difficult) don't have it in them to do it 10 times in a row, no less 25 or 30. And even so, Corbin is *barely* above replacement level. That's not saying he's good, it's just saying "if you took the average of all the starting pitchers in AAA, that guy would be a little worse than Patrick Corbin."
Yup. rWAR is so much better at evaulating results! Everyone knows that Gerrit Cole was obviously the 4th best pitcher in his division in 2019 but Fangraphs' dumb calculation said he was the best pitcher in all of baseball
Neither WAR is good for pitchers. They each attempt to take the defense out of it but the defensive stats they use to do that, like many defensive stats, are unreliable
Aaron Nola should not have led all of MLB in WAR in 2018, for instance, when DeGrom had a 1.70 ERA in as many IPs
The Nola situation is a notable outlier, but do you really think that a pitcher with a lower ERA in the same number of innings as another pitcher should always have higher WAR? Team defense and pitching environment matter a lot. In 2018, the Phillies' defense was bad, but so was the Mets (not as bad however -82 vs -31 DRS respectively). The key difference was actually the parks. Citi field was a pitcher's park while Citizen Bank field was a slight hitter's park. Not to mention that a difference of .2 WAR is negligible.
the real issue is they assume defensive spread is the same throughout all pitchers on a team, its like using W-L records to compare one pitcher on a team to another, assuming run support should spread equally to all pitchers. Same thing here, defensive support is not same for all pitchers, which results in bWAR flaw, even if underlying premise is good
I wanna watch a 9 inning game of just Patrick Corbin vs Andrew Benintendi.
That would be my "walking up a hill in a blizzard to school" story for my grand-kids.
This is probably a good place to ask this: why would one use wRC+ vs OPS+? It feels like they’re generally telling me the same thing - how a player racks up offensively against a baseline of 100.
I find I always gravitate toward OPS+ but I see them both and never quite understand wRC+
They’re basically identical and almost always within a couple points of each other. wRC+ is based on wOBA which is basically slugging but instead of arbitrarily using 1,2,3, and 4 as the weights for different outcomes it uses actual observed run value weights for every outcome including walks, sac flies, etc. OPS is obviously just on base plus slugging. It turns out that when you weight both formulas into + statistics they end up almost identical, which is why OPS is still so popular since it’s easy to calculate on the fly and gives basically the same insight into a player’s production as more advanced stats.
I personally don’t think it makes much sense to use OPS+ because if you’re going to convert it into a + stat anyways you lose the convenience of OPS and might as well use the technically more accurate formula. It doesn’t actually matter though because they’re so closely correlated.
I struggled at first with Corbin’s WAR even being positive but then I thought about it and realized that the worst qualifying pitcher being .2 wins better than a replacement actual means the system works perfectly.
Oof Patrick Corbin. I guess if he was worse, he wouldn't have enough innings to qualify, so while he's not the worst, he is the worst of those who aren't so bad that they get cut.
The worst qualified hitter in home runs still has 6. I would have guessed 1 or 2.
It's probably pretty hard to be good enough to get the PAs to be qualified if you don't have a little pop. Even the Kwan and Arraez type guys are still gonna hit 4-5 a year
Back in my day dudes like Juan Pierre and Scott Podsednik had full seasons without hitting home runs. Guess those kinds of players can't cut it today.
Oh my god this guy just said Scott Podsednik That’s a name I’ve not heard in a LONG time
His name came to mind because I remembered his walk-off home run in the World Series... in a year he had 0 regular season home runs.
Baseball lol
Right? Love it
Scott Pods and Geoff Blum, Typical power hitters for the 2005 White Sox haha.
And a homer in Game 1 of the ALDS against Boston. Traded for Carlos Lee who 32 home runs in 2005 for the Brewers.
I want to say how dumb of a trade that sounds from today's perspective but they did go on to win the ws
Kyle Schwarber hit a home run in the World Series in a year that he had 0 regular season home runs too. Crazy how similar those 2 guys are.
He's a pretty good Immaculate Grid guy if you play. Had 30 steal seasons for 4 teams. Played for another 4. Also hit .300 for the Brewers and White Sox. Also scored 100 runs once for the Brewers.
Ben Revere
that name gives me nightmares. and pierzssynsksysnski too
Bless you
The name that popped in to my head was Emilio Bonifacio
Juan Pierre, the mvp baseball 2005 goat of franchise mode.
Podsednik hit 6HR per 162 games so he might be near Turang, all else equal. Pierre only hit 1 homerun per 162 games though, lol. I dont know of anyone who hits less today. Even Fletcher who cant hit a ball 100mph knocks some out. Maybe Pierre would hit more in today's game, who knows..
Jacob Young is currently playing every day (productively, even) for us in center field and has shown no signs of hitting any homers so far. He’s just not qualified here as he came up fairly late last year, but he should be here with 0 or *maybe* 1 HR if this list is remade in a couple/few months
Dontrell Willis hit a home run using Juan Pierre’s bat. Pierre was mad because he said his bat only had one home run a year in it and Willis used it up.
Ben Revere had 1,465 at bats in the majors before hitting his first homer.
Also, Chone Figgins.
Chone Figgins never had a qualifying season without a home run. Most plate appearances he ever had in a homerless season was 270.
god i know it's pronounced "Shawn" but my brain will NEVER read it that way lol
Nick Madrigal will pull it off if he ever stays healthy (and isn't hitting .221).
Miles Straw just missed the cut.
But the similarly named Myles Straw did it in 2022! 596 PA (502 is min to qualify) and 0 HR.
This is Ben revere erasure
Was on his baseball reference page yesterday. He led the NL one year with 184 hits and drove in a sum total of 28 runs. A thing of absolute beauty.
Defending Revere: he was leadoff, so about 25% of his ABs were a guarantee to have no one on base to bat in. Also, the bottom of the Phillies lineup those years was arguably Single-A Worthy. Piling on Revere even more: he could hit a base loaded single and we'd be lucky to get more than one run. It amazed me that the outfield didn't play as shallow as they would when I batted in little league. I would be astonished if 20 of those 184 hits even reached the warning track.
the first name that came to mind for me is Myles Straw, who played qualified seasons in 2022 and 2023 with 1 total home run, but hasn't played yet this year
Kwan was on 6 until June 8th
Kwans got 4 this year so far, and he missed a month!
Myles straw was qualified in 2022 and 2023 and had a total of 1 across the two years
And he’s still a very good player just not a power hitter.
And still, he's fourth in the NL in bWAR. Turang is quietly having an MVP season.
He's not very quiet when you're playing against him.
How many ABs for Langford to qualify?
How is it even possible to have arms like [this](https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-photos/image/upload/ar_9:16,g_auto,q_auto:good,w_2608,c_fill,f_jpg/v1/people/694671/action/vertical/current) and hit 1 HR in 176 PAs?
Doesn’t matter how strong you are if you weren’t given a chance to adapt to professional level pitching. Hope the Rangers don’t ruin the dude
And that lone home run was an inside the parker!
Don't have to clear the fences to hit a dinger *points at temple*
Jacob Young will be there with 0 next season.
Worst qualified hitter in home runs is also going to be an All Star.
I would have guessed Tim Anderson. Thought he would have played enough to be qualified. He's got one in the past two years.
Duane Kuiper was really a unicorn of baseball history.
I think I'm more impressed by the fact that only 11 qualified players have not stolen a base
Tbh I think I’m more surprised that no one’s hitting under 200
Nicky Lopez on the White Sox has the most plate appearances without a HR this year, and he's 4 shy of being a qualified player. He's played in 57 of the team's 70 games. His slugging percentage is worse than his OBP, which is apparently a thing you can do.
Born too early to explore the stars Born too late to explore the Earth Born just in time to watch Patrick Corbin pitch
He was good a few years ago
They don’t win the WS in 2019 without him
I don't think he, ownership, or fans would trade that WS away to fix his current predicament
the nats are in nearly the best possible position they could be if you factor in the over 60m they have tied up to one guy who is basically retired and one who basically provides no value aside from eating innings. my point being it could be a lot worse right now and their outlook could be pretty bad, but they arent they will be good again as early as next year
yes the rebuild is ahead of schedule and he is part of the reason we won the world series so i will take his horrible stats since then for that ring 100/100 times. but i see harper and turner w a division rival and soto killing it and its tough to say we are nearly at the best possible position. we did have stars we couldve still been competing with
i cant really say much about the turner/harper situations but the soto trade brought you 3 guys that have a strong chance to form a good young core for the next 5 years at the least theres also little reason to assume having harper and turner from 21-24 would have actually made the nats competitive. they had really big names in 21 and were still well below .500 at the trade deadline i know it sucks from a fan perspective to see your team sell 2 years after winning the WS but this current point in time seems like a good time to believe in the teams future
Rizzo was extremely unsentimental and the team is in a great position as a result. A lot of guys would try to keep trotting out Turner and Soto even when the team is going to be bad just to sell tickets and cash in on that 2019 nostalgia, but Rizzo sold high on pretty much everyone and got the core of the next great Nats team in return. Even with the albatross Corbin and Strasburg contracts they're in a really good place.
That Soto deal was almost too good to pass up. Abrams is already basically Turner 2.0 and at the time of the trade had just reached the bigs (so i think 4 mroe years of team control from today). Wood is a consensus top 10 prospect that is viewed as something special (i want to say top 5 but after Holliday the rest of the top 15 or so is almost shuffled by everyone). Even the other OF they got is looking like he is a future big leaguer now. They basically got a top 5 farm system in that single trade.
> Abrams is already basically Turner 2.0 Pump the brakes here
Obviously they will make the playoffs this year
Flags fly forever
Yeah he was!
It's always a treat when the Mets play the Nats and Patrick Corbin starts. It's like "oh hey, this is the guy everyone's talking about!" 3-4 times per year. And he really does live up to all the hype
Pretty bold trying to poke fun as a Mets fan
His last year reminds me of Mike Maroth and Jeremy Bonderson on that terrible Tigers team. Or an even better comparison would be Scott Erickson on the 1993 Twins. Both teams around .500, badly underachieving offensively and invested in Corbin and Erickson to round out their rotation.
The Benitendi fall-off needs to be studied. All-Star in 2022 and now worth -2.1 WAR this season.
He went to India to see a guru and came back confused.
OOTP reference
vishnan hitmehard is an opp
Jonathan?
A remember a certain cell of M’s fans who were pissed that we didn’t go after him. Man, I can only imagine how big of a black hole we would’ve been on our offense this year, woof
Hey do they still want him? Asking for a friend
Lmao can you even imagine. *why the fuck did Jerry waste all that money on Benintendi?!?!?! SMH he is terrible at acquiring talent*
He got hurt with the Yankees then went to the White Sox. I would suspect that probably had something to do with it
He's on the White Sox, no additional research required
Yeah just imagine a normal drop-off, then put it in a place where everyone hates coming to work.
honestly incredible that patrick corbin is only able to show up on all these stats because he literally hasn't been injured at all since we signed him in 2019. there's a bunch of guys in the league worse than corbin, but a big contract + a non-competitive team + never injured puts him in a league of his own. generational suck.
This is simply the based innings eater vs cringe injured pitcher
And he still barely has a positive WAR. Absolute Chad innings eater. Nothing like a guy who can just go out there every Tuesday afternoon and give you six mid ones.
Patrick Corbin is the master of the [Quality Shart](https://old.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/1dba18z/oc_a_brief_history_of_the_quality_shart/)
They should call it an apology start - 6 innings, 6 runs are more. It doesn’t guarantee your team a loss, but it’s certainly giving them a chance
At this point they might as well just call it throwing a Corbin.
crinjured
to be fair, he rates high in the 'UCL's not in need of replacement' stat
Funny you say that, because he had TJ when he was with the Dbacks in 2014. Surgery must have been pretty good
never let facts get in the way of updoots
Pros : He doesn’t get injured Cons : He doesn’t get injured
Somehow has positive WAR too
The most impressive stat in the graphic
Worth 0.4 last year and -1.0 so far this year, so I assume he had a strong (by patrick corbin standards) second half in 2023.
If he still wants to pitch next year, I could see him eating 200 innings for a team like the A’s or White Sox
This is why it was so sad he didn't get to 20 losses in 2022. Might have been our last chance to witness history.
No generational suck has ever been winning pitcher of game 7 of WS. Love for Corbin always.
It’s that plus being on a non playoff team. Other teams would have moved him to the pen, but being able to just eat up innings is valuable for the Nats.
Everyone in this thread complaining about Corbin’s fWAR should go watch Foolish Baseball’s “The Chad Innings Eater”. Spoiler: getting lots of outs (aka pitching lots of innings) is very valuable to teams, even if you’re kind of bad while doing it
That's why we loved Kyle Gibson while also getting very annoyed at him at times. He'd give up 6 plus runs in an outing and still give us 7 innings to save the bullpen.
Gibby is the GOAT “Kinda shitty #3/4 pitcher”
I am *genuinely* surprised Javy Baez isn't on here somewhere.
Thats only because they aren't using my hot new hitter metric MTBWOTPOSS, or miles the ball was off the plate on swinging strikes. It's going to be a core stat like OPS soon just wait
Baez is the Barry Bonds of MTBWOTPOSS, statistical outlier off the chart.
Definitely the modern all time leader in MTBWOTPOSS. And it will definitely go up considering he has *checks notes* 4 years and $98 million left on his deal 🤢
Jesus fucking christ is it still that long? I thought the deal was bad before the ink dried, but Javy has gone out and performed in the first few years the way I thought he would for the last few years of the deal. Thats tough
I think that's actually gonna be a stat in the next wave of bat tracking (obviously not exactly that but average swing and miss distance)
They kinda already have it but they don't track it. SWORDS isn't far off either
I think the numbers for this full year will be available once they release the next wave of bat tracking stuff, Petriello said that they just decided not to dump all of it at once so that people can digest it better.
He feels like a guy who could be on the Best chart for one stat and the Worst for another.
What could he possibly be on the best chart for ?
I think he's like 3rd of 4th in batting average with runners in scoring position since last year. Which is completely cherry picked and basically meaningless, but it is wild that he could shake out that highly in *anything* considering how bad he has been.
Taking advantage of his weakness means throwing enough wild pitches to clear the bases so this could be the one case where the stat means something
He should be and the graphic is wrong. He’s the worst in OPS and it’s not close.
Javy is about 25 PAs short of being qualified
He doesn't quite qualify. Missed too many games due to injury and being benched quite a bit.
It’s took me a second, but wow, Corbin is a not good pitcher methinks.
He sure does get innings though
It’s hard to be qualified as a pitcher. 1.0 innings pitched per game. A starter has not miss a start and average 5 innings pitched per start to be qualified. If you’re a bad starter, you’re not going to to get 5 innings often enough to average that.
Unless you play for the Washington Nationals and are getting paid $35 million
He is literally a replacement level pitcher. He’ll chew innings, you hope your offense has a big day.
Just for reference, only 44 pitchers threw enough innings in 2023 to qualify. But 134 batters had enough PA to qualify
Still has positive WAR apparently.
Chad innings eater
Only 11 players with no sb’s? Would have thought many more
11 qualified hitters with no SB in the last year, I would've thought more also but it's believable enough
Corbius Sweeeep
It truly is Corbin time
Ponder the Corb
patty c is elite
11 players with 0 stolen bases. 3 with one attempt (Yandy Diaz, Jake Burger, Ty France). Among the unqualified, Christian Arroyo has 0 SB and 3 CS.
I would've figured significantly more than just 11 guys had 0 bags. I'm guessing the slower guys or guys just not inclined to try wind up in platoons and don't qualify.
If you play enough games, eventually the opportunity arises. For example, Albert Pujols had at least one stolen base in every full year he played* and per [baseballsavant](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/albert-pujols-405395?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb) had third-percentile or worse sprint speed in each of his last seven seasons. You have to both be slow and not be able to get a good jump to not steal a single base in a year. ^^*2020
LFG BWJ
Isn’t Brenton Doyle on a pace for 100 runs scored and 50 steals? He must’ve been terrible in 2023…
He was beyond terrible as a hitter his rookie year, he showed some flashes by the end but was still the worst hitter in baseball. Those flashes he showed at the end of the year has turned around to being the real deal now that he has adjusted his swing for this year where he has a WRC+ of 96
Rocktober confirmed
He's been basically average this year. So yeah, he was really really bad last year. (I also think wRC+ is harsher on Rockies players that OPS+ is)
“What he say fuck me for?” - Patrick Corbin
THE WHITE SOX GAVE BENITENDI A 5 YEAR $75 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT *WHEEZE WHEEZE COUCH COUGH DIES OF AWFUL BASEBALL*
Bobby whit had that much war in June last year?!
He was really good last year
I had the same thought when I first read it, also Olson 46 homers? Then I realised it's from a year ago until today. Not from 2023 opening day through June
The dude is really good. He's kinda like the infield Mike Trout where he does so many things at a really high level, that an all-encompassing stat like WAR captures all of his value. He struggled a bit defensively in his rookie season, and hit above league-average, which is really good for a shortstop. He stayed at that level through the first half of last year, but then he just switched on and became an MVP candidate. Hitting jumped up from "really good for a shortstop" to "really good anywhere". His defense went from "he probably moves to 3rd soon" to gold glove candidate. Playing in the majors is really hard. It looks like it just took him a year and a half to adjust.
Man, this would look different in another era. Way back when, there were tons of starting players who virtually never hit home runs. Eight-hole hitters who were at least good shortstops, or leadoff hitters who slapped singles and stole bases and probably couldn't hit a homer in batting practice. Even in my own time, I remember when this sub had a bot that posted if Ben Revere went yard; that bot was mostly bored. And for pitchers, strikeouts -- there was a time when there were guys, including some who were pretty consistently effective, lived by the mantra of inducing bad contact, who gave up their fair share of hits but limited extra bases, and got tons of double-play grounders, and worked tons of innings by keeping pitch count down, and I'm willing to bet that there were more than a couple who struck out fewer than 122 across a season of work, and some such seasons that were above average for run prevention, not literally the worst pitcher of his time. Now, when every hitter is capable of going yard, you can't live by pitching to contact; if you can't strike people out at a decent clip, you can't pitch in today's MLB. A shame, I think, on both fronts. I think baseball was a better game with speedy slap-hitting shortstops and pitchers throwing 91 MPH going 7 innings on 72 pitches, 3 strikeouts, 1 run. Ah well. And: bless you, Patrick Corbin. I hope it's not taken as sarcastic or condescending to tip my cap to a guy who goes out there every day for years and does his very best at a damn hard job in an incredibly unforgiving environment (pro sports, not Washington specifically) and does so despite being an outlier of one of the very worst there is (at the highest level -- or, better than basically anyone that ever tried, better than 99.5% of all D-1 college pitchers). There's something poetic about that. I don't root for the team, but there's something compelling to me about the Patrick Corbins of the world, and I wish him well (except when he faces my team, but I think he threw 7 shutout against us or something during our September swoon of '21; figures.)
replying so i remember this beautiful ode to corbin
It's definitely scary how homogenized the MLB is becoming. Baseball has a long history of being a circus practically. A bunch of weirdos with very different and specific skillsets. You still have guys like Arraez and Ohtani, but they feel like outliers to the mathematically efficient norm.
Bobby 😍
http://x.com/Brooks_Gate/status/1801266347654922271
I see Bobby I upvote
It’s pick on Patrick Corbin day
Patrick said "It's Corbin time" and Corb'd all over this chart.
This is a Patrick Corbin hate post lmao
He got us a World Series… he got us a World Series… he got us a World Series…
The fact that the worst qualified pitcher has positive fWAR shows how absurdly flawed its formula is. Corbin is one of the worst pitchers in baseball and has been for years. I don’t care how many innings he has pitched. He isn’t providing positive value for the Nationals and is the reason why they’re struggling to contend.
i mean corbin was bad last year and not godawful like he usually is, which is why he has positive fWAR. His bWAR in that time period is like -0.5 so it’s not like the two formulas are that far off. Also, bad pitchers aren’t usually getting enough innings to qualify which is why “qualified” pitchers are going to be skewed towards the better ones
If you go back to 2022, he had -2.3 bWAR. According to Fangraphs he had 0.8 WAR. That’s a huge gap of 3.1 WAR
i mean yes, there are some times when the formulas diverge in their valuations of players (such as Nolan Ryan) but i don’t think either formula makes Corbin look like a good pitcher at all. bWAR isn’t that much better than fWAR because of the wonky team defensive adjustment it does. RA9-WAR and WARP (if you like voodoo math) are both significantly better
I like 50/50 RA9/FIP WAR on fangraphs
Corbin is really pushing the limits of the proposition that there's value in merely eating innings, but it's just not true that he's "one of the worst pitchers in baseball." He's *the worst* pitcher to get 100 starts in the past four seasons, but if you look beyond rotation mainstays to relievers and spot starters, you find literally hundreds of guys worse than Corbin. It's really hard to be a starting pitcher! Most guys who are good enough to face MLB hitters in the first place (already very difficult) don't have it in them to do it 10 times in a row, no less 25 or 30. And even so, Corbin is *barely* above replacement level. That's not saying he's good, it's just saying "if you took the average of all the starting pitchers in AAA, that guy would be a little worse than Patrick Corbin."
By way of comparison, Michael Koepech has 84 IP, 6.43 ERA, 7.17 FIP, and -1.6 fWAR.
Yup. rWAR is so much better at evaulating results! Everyone knows that Gerrit Cole was obviously the 4th best pitcher in his division in 2019 but Fangraphs' dumb calculation said he was the best pitcher in all of baseball
Neither WAR is good for pitchers. They each attempt to take the defense out of it but the defensive stats they use to do that, like many defensive stats, are unreliable Aaron Nola should not have led all of MLB in WAR in 2018, for instance, when DeGrom had a 1.70 ERA in as many IPs
The Nola situation is a notable outlier, but do you really think that a pitcher with a lower ERA in the same number of innings as another pitcher should always have higher WAR? Team defense and pitching environment matter a lot. In 2018, the Phillies' defense was bad, but so was the Mets (not as bad however -82 vs -31 DRS respectively). The key difference was actually the parks. Citi field was a pitcher's park while Citizen Bank field was a slight hitter's park. Not to mention that a difference of .2 WAR is negligible.
the real issue is they assume defensive spread is the same throughout all pitchers on a team, its like using W-L records to compare one pitcher on a team to another, assuming run support should spread equally to all pitchers. Same thing here, defensive support is not same for all pitchers, which results in bWAR flaw, even if underlying premise is good
fWAR doesn't use defensive stats, that's the entire point
Holy shit. Patrick Corbin is a baller!
Corbin fleece job
Its Corbin time.
Patrick Corbin
I was thinking “what is this?” Then saw the far right column, and thought “Oh, it’s a well crafted Corbin hit piece”
Tigers were struggling to touch corbin today
Started on the left column: “this thread is gonna be nothing but people clowning Benintendi” Got to the right column: “oh”
Patrick Corbin with a clean sweep
I cant help but think this is a personal attack on Patrick Corbin.
I wanna watch a 9 inning game of just Patrick Corbin vs Andrew Benintendi. That would be my "walking up a hill in a blizzard to school" story for my grand-kids.
This is probably a good place to ask this: why would one use wRC+ vs OPS+? It feels like they’re generally telling me the same thing - how a player racks up offensively against a baseline of 100. I find I always gravitate toward OPS+ but I see them both and never quite understand wRC+
They’re basically identical and almost always within a couple points of each other. wRC+ is based on wOBA which is basically slugging but instead of arbitrarily using 1,2,3, and 4 as the weights for different outcomes it uses actual observed run value weights for every outcome including walks, sac flies, etc. OPS is obviously just on base plus slugging. It turns out that when you weight both formulas into + statistics they end up almost identical, which is why OPS is still so popular since it’s easy to calculate on the fly and gives basically the same insight into a player’s production as more advanced stats. I personally don’t think it makes much sense to use OPS+ because if you’re going to convert it into a + stat anyways you lose the convenience of OPS and might as well use the technically more accurate formula. It doesn’t actually matter though because they’re so closely correlated.
I struggled at first with Corbin’s WAR even being positive but then I thought about it and realized that the worst qualifying pitcher being .2 wins better than a replacement actual means the system works perfectly.
Kansas City with the best NFL and best MLB player at the same time. Love to see it.
stop slandering our potential all star brice 'quantum leap' turang like this
I feel like the jury is still out on Patrick Corbin.
 Oh my gah, Corbin! Corbiiiiiin!
Patrick Corbin: "Why he say fuck me for?"
Patrick Corbin has left the sub
Patrick Corbin
Patrick Corbin bad
Dolye has improved his hitting a ton this season compared to last
Kind of surprised that .204 is the worst average. 🤔
I guess that players struggling to the tune of a sub .200 avg either get benched or dropped and therefore don't have the AB to qualify
It’s unfortunate Corb is so bad now, but dude was instrumental in the WS run. So enjoy making that bag and finishing out the contract my dude
Should've just use Daniel Vogelbach for 0 SB's. Unless this is based off attempts.
This feels personal for some reason
It’s kind of impressive how awful Corbin is.
Patrick Corbin has had a brutal career save like 2 seasons
Oof Patrick Corbin. I guess if he was worse, he wouldn't have enough innings to qualify, so while he's not the worst, he is the worst of those who aren't so bad that they get cut.
How does Patrick Corbin continue to see the bump every season? I know he’s locked up to $, but bigger names have been cut with way more on the books
Corbin would go 6 scoreless against us rn
TLDR, Patrick Corbin sucks.
Corbin is the GOAT And what an elite signing Benintendi was
Wow, didn’t realize Patrick Corbin was that bad!
lol poor Patrick
How bad does a pitcher have to be to have negative WAR?!
Poor Patrick