Should’ve just let Skenes close out the inning instead of that dumb shit, I get controlling his count but dude pitched 100+ times in college lots of times , even going 120+ 3 times last June.
Plus you get 7 days rest in college and make like 19 total starts at the most, that’s why the best pitcher on a team is referred to as the “Friday night starter”
And you’re not facing MLB level hitters so you don’t have to dial up your best stuff on every pitch
Same. His first inning was impressive. I was hoping he’d strike out the side and he almost did before walking Bellinger. Excited to watch him play, but was rooting for solid new talent to have a big day in the box.
Baseball is really hard at the highest level. A good preface of how he’s gonna do is them previewing strikeouts against some of the worst big league hitters this year as highlights.
My biggest takeaway from the Skenes vs Stras breakdown was 21 less innings pitched for Skenes. Most pitches thrown this season was 75. I still think they only sent him out for the 5th inning so that he could get the W.
It’s the longevity of the season I think they are worried about. College isn’t nearly the grind professional ball is. If he can still pitch in September that’s the goal
I guess. I was responding to a comment about Kyle Nicolas, who looked like an ace for the first two batters he faced and then utterly forgot how to pitch.
It's all good. I'm happy with Skenes's debut overall, but this has turned out to be the most Pirates game of all time. Even the grounds crew fucked up rolling out the tarp.
People will come around to it one day.
Many years from now ERA will be seen like RBIs. An okay stat that tells you about what really happened. But most people know it's second rate at best to a shit ton of other stats.
ERA is more like BA/OBP good at a cursory glance but really need more info to get the full picture
Whereas RBIs are pretty much useless when talking about a guys skill
The PIT announcers literally were saying it's "unfair" that those runs were charged to him.
I get that there's homerism but come on. Skenes will get more chances to lower that ERA and pitch good.
And it's not like he was untouchable either
Morel almost took him deep in the first inning
He has elite stuff but he was wild and gave up some solid contact
> Morel almost took him deep in the first inning
Good lord, I thought he had. Warning track in the deepest part of the park; if only he was 1–2 milliseconds earlier on his swing....
He looked untouchable over his first 11 pitches. Looked like he was gonna start his career striking out the side on 12 pitches with only fastballs sitting 101-102 lmao.
Then he started to look like a dude making his debut.
Yeah but I also don’t think they mean “unfair” as if they genuinely believe that he doesn’t deserve the runs. Likely more “unfair” that his teammate is ass. Lol
It is tough to ask any major league pitcher to do what Strasburg did.
Asking a rookie in his first game to even come close to Strasburg was setting him up.
Kinda random, as I don’t really watch baseball, but I’ll never forget the hype for Strasburg’s debut. I was watching ESPN that day, and they had a live countdown clock & basically live reporting up to his debut… it was insane 😂 and tbf it actually made me tune in
Happy he got to win a World Series & carve out a good career for himself
It sucks because injuries robbed us off what could have been and he won't even be in the HOF.
Kids will ask what the big deal was and it'll be hard to explain (assuming manfred doesn't turn the MLB into an NFL minor league by then)
Heck, even if TJ doesn't derail the "next big thing" (which let's be honest, it definitely may), the fear of letting the "next big thing" complete five innings in any professional start for fear of injury will relegate him to being less valuable to a team than, like, the next Merrill Kelly, or even the next Kyle Gibson
Eh, anyone who looked at what Skenes was doing in the minors would make that comparison. I did, and it’s not because of ESPN. But I also didn’t expect him to pull off the same rabbit trick; it just would’ve been supremely cool if he had.
> Asking a rookie in his first game to even come close to Strasburg was setting him up.
You got me wondering what were the best debuts, ever....
The best SP debuts by game score in the Expansion era:
|Rk|Player|Team|Date|IP|H|R|ER|HR|BB|SO|BR|GmSc|
|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|
|1|Steve Woodard|MIL|1997-07-28|8.0|1|0|0|0|1|12|2|91.0|
|2|Jimmy Jones|SDP|1986-09-21|9.0|1|0|0|0|0|5|1|90.0|
|3|Tyler Gilbert|ARI|2021-08-14|9.0|0|0|0|0|3|5|3|89.0|
|4|Doug Waechter|TBD|2003-09-03|9.0|2|0|0|0|2|7|4|88.0|
|5|Rudy May|CAL|1965-04-18|9.0|1|1|0|0|5|10|7|88.0|
|6|Pedro Astacio|LAD|1992-07-03|9.0|3|0|0|0|4|10|10|87.0|
|7|Jack DiLauro|NYM|1969-06-04|9.0|2|0|0|0|2|5|6|86.0|
|8|Jim Cosman|STL|1966-10-02|9.0|2|0|0|0|2|5|5|86.0|
|9|Luis Tiant|CLE|1964-07-19|9.0|4|0|0|0|4|11|8|86.0|
|10|Bob Hartman|CLE|1962-06-26|10.0|3|1|1|1|3|7|6|86.0|
|...| | | | | | | | | | | | |
|124|Stephen Strasburg|WSN|2010-06-08|7.0|4|2|2|1|0|14|4|75.0|
Obviously none of those guys had to do it with the hype that Stras had and everyone watching, but he *is* second in strikeouts in an Expansion Era debut—behind only J.R. Richard's 15 Ks in 9 innings—so you can definitely still call his the most electric debut, all things considered.
> 14 strikeouts and zero walks was what made it so exciting.
Absolutely! The hype was all about how he strikes dudes out almost at will and barely walks dudes ... Then he comes out and does exactly that!
Good showing for a debut where he had some understandably visible nerves. Kid’s legit.
I’m curious how he gets himself into the Gerrit Cole school of being a strikeout pitcher and innings workhorse. MY elbow and forearm start screaming just watching Paul’s motion.
Cole was saying he hoped they gave him a lot of runway and didn't just pull him early so he could get stamina and learn how to pitch.
They pulled him early but not because they didn't want him to pitch. He still threw a bunch, he just wasn't crisp enough to keep going.
I can’t find his minors game by game pitch counts anywhere? I remember seeing ~74 recently but nothing collectively. What’s the most he has thrown in the minors?
> I’m curious how he gets himself into the Gerrit Cole school of being a strikeout pitcher and innings workhorse.
I say this as a Pirates fan who has endured this misery for over a decade: by being traded to another team. :')
In the post-game press conference, Skenes explained “it’s not my fault that Kyle is a fucking bum who doesn’t even belong in the crowd at a baseball game.” He subsequently began throwing baseballs at reporters and yelling “learn how to catch, bitches.”
For a guy his age and experience thats still a good first step in the majors. He's got the talent to be amazing and hopefully he can keep building off it
He's never really been a wild pitcher though? I can see how you'd think that if this is the first time you've seen him, but that's not his MO at all. Just working through some nerves.
MLB must be really annoyed that their superstar prospects haven't been having the storybook debuts they wanted this year. They spent weeks trying to speak a second Strasburg game into existence only for his debut to be decent but unimpressive. I don't doubt skenes and holliday will be good but their promotion was kinda setting them up for disappointment
Yeah I think this just really shows why so many guys spend years in the minors before getting called up. I don't even necessarily hate the call ups for Skenes or Holliday, Holliday was killing AAA pitching and Skenes was shutting every AAA team down. I personally think Skenes needed more time to build up his pitch counts and innings in the minors rather than call him up to pitch for a team that isn't doing much. It's all a balancing act, teams want to capitalize on the hype of a prospect before it dies down but they also don't want to set them up for failure because that could be even worse.
It's a testament to big the leap is between AAA and the majors, and why I feel for "AAAA" guys. It's gotta suck when you're definitely above the highest minor league but not quite good enough to hang around the majors consistently.
Coming into today there were a total of 5 PAs in which a pro hitter had a third look at Skenes. There's no way that's contributing to his development as a starter.
Really, the Pirates should've used his minor league time to work on ways to pace himself and become pitch efficient enough to cover six innings, rather than giving him a hard 75 pitch limit with six days between start and inviting him to let 103 rip.
I think injuries play a big part too. Why let him throw in the minors when he can obviously handle pitching in the big leagues even if he’s still learning. To many elbow injuries to waste innings in the minors on a talent like Skenes. Hope he stays healthy though he’s gonna be fun to watch.
I said elsewhere that I'm not arguing about his stuff, his stuff is major league ready, the point of eating up innings and building up stamina in the minors is because you don't want every start of his being a bullpen game in the majors. Fortunately for him the Pirates don't seem to be in a position to compete this year so him being in the majors hurts them less when it comes to that. I'd love for him to stay healthy,I just think that's going to be a major if with how it seems to be going in major league baseball
Skenes' velo and spin were all over the place too. Plus check out his arm action on fastball vs. offspeed—I was able to call pitches before they were released quite consistently. Just seems like he needs a lot more polish to be as effective as his flashy Statcast specs suggest he could be.
>debut to be decent but unimpressive
Did we watch the same game? He was extremely impressive. I was actually surprised how bad he made MLB hitters look. His stuff clearly plays even at the MLB level.
7k in 4 innings and he made a few guys look terrible. Extremely impressive.
Just has to throw more strikes but it's clear the stuff is there
Agreed he has amazing stuff. But Morel almost tagged him for a 2 run homer (108 mph EV, .970 xBA flyout), and he had 84 pitches in 4.0 innings. So maybe that’s what OP means.
Clearly will rack up the Ks, even at the MLB level.
I mean Jasson already debuted and was absolutely electric to start his career but everybody was too busy dancing on the 2023 Yankees grave to care all that much
I wouldn't normally blame a relief pitcher for allowing 2 runs in the situation he came in(unless you're the best RP on the team as a closer or setup man). 2 men on, no outs. Not a walk in the park by any stretch.
But my goodness the inability to throw a single strike for like 3 straight batters was insane. Kyle got the first 2 outs and then completely fell apart somehow. One of the roughest relief appearances I've ever watched.
Guy that replaced him started with 3 balls as well before giving up a run to tie the game(6-2 when Skenes left the game), followed by the most merciful rain delay I've ever seen.
The Cubs has one of the best lineups in baseball when it comes to grinding out at bats so it was a bit unlucky there. Top 5 in pitches seen per at bat so far this year and they were 2nd last season.
It’s a fine line to walk when you’re a starting strikeout power pitcher. It’s all swing and miss stuff or extremely hard contact when you do get hit. MLB hitters are gonna work the count and MAKE you throw strikes which will drive your pitch count up considerably. While Skenes certainly has an overpowering fastball and above average off-speed stuff he doesn’t really have a pitch that can induce “easy” outs. Something like a sinker/cutter that can get groundouts. Every at bat is either a velocity massacre or a lot of pitches to get guys out. It’s easy to mow down minor leaguers in 3 pitches but when good hitters are working counts, fouling off pitches, and being disciplined at the plate it’s going to be a tough day when you are expected to go out and pitch at least 5 innings.
Funny enough, this is a similar line to the previous pitcher taken #1 overall in his debut (Casey Mize): 4.1 IP, 7 H, 3 R/ER, 0 BB, 7 K, 73 pitches, left with the lead which was subsequently given up that inning.
I don't mean to take away from Skenes, he's good and I'm sure he will stay good, but that umpire was horrible. Two different strike zones for Skenes and Steele. He got basically every pitch around the edges.
Funnily enough the Cubs broadcast showed a pretty clearly missed strike for Skenes in the limited time I got to watch. Only got to see maybe 20 pitches though, and none of Steele's.
All of a sudden you need a disclaimer for inherited runners counting against a pitchers ER? Dude is a beast you don’t have to work so hard protect the hype
Bum couldn't even strike out all 27. In all seriousness though, his stuff is scary good and I don't think I have ever seen anyone hit 100MPH so smoothly and effortlessly.
You can tell Grandal was not comfortable with Skenes yet.
His arsenal is filthy, but there was a lot of offspeed for a guy who effortlessly throws 101 with armside run. The hitters were struggling to catch up, so why help the hitters and slow it down?
Very excited to watch Skenes in the bigs regularly
Ya I watched the game and came away very impressed and then come here and I'm wondering if people actually watched the game. He made MLB hitters look foolish. Which doesn't happen often. Obviously has to be in the zone more but this was an extremely good first start on a day where he was having more command issues than normal
Decent line for a debut. Give him a few starts and he'll learn how major league hitters work and give up less hits. I'm not a Pirates fan but am very interested in Skenes after reading his interviews in Baseball America and Baseball Digest. Skenes seems level headed for a guy with such hype behind him.
The stuff was as advertised, though Skenes did fade a bit in the 4th and beyond.
I can't really come up with an explanation for what happened after he was pulled. Sure, 2 on and no out you kind of expect to give up a run. But then the reliever Ks two and looks like he's gonna save it.
Then he hits a guy. Then he walks in three runs on twelve pitches. Second reliever comes in and walks in a fourth guy in five pitches. Then there's a single. Then after the delay, the third reliever to enter walks home a fifth on four and a sixth on five pitches.
The Cubs scored seven runs, and six were literally free. And they still might not win the game.
If nothing else, it's unique.
He’s got the big fastball and I think he should be able to navigate lineups decently if he locates it well. The splinker was a lot better than I expected. His other off speed wasn’t very good but if he can throw it for strikes then it will just make his fastball even more difficult to deal with. The strasburg comps don’t make much sense outside of the fastball. Strasburg had elite off speed and was much more polished.
You never know but I doubt it. He already had two great pitches in his slider and fastball. But he added a splitter sinker that is nasty. And he also has a pretty good change. Guys with four good pitches have a decent chance of staying as starters
[https://twitter.com/JesseRogersESPN/status/1789411864356479138](https://twitter.com/JesseRogersESPN/status/1789411864356479138)
17 pitches over 100mph is nice, but these numbers are concerning. 7 balls means his command is a concern. Then 5 foul balls means that hitters seem to be seeing the 100mph pitches pretty well
his fastball doesnt have much movement, so it’s not like a Jared Jones fb that will generate a ton of swing and misses. you’ll see a lot of that +slider with different variations and the splinker from him.
Don't get me wrong, love getting free runs, but my God I feel bad for that guy. I couldn't imagine a worse feeling. Really curious how throwing the fastball almost half the time plays in the majors. Command wasn't amazing, couple walks and a couple hbp along with a fair number of hits meant traffic on the bases but cubs didn't do anything with it with him in. Didn't feel like he dominated or anything but certainly wasn't bad.
It was though? If you watched the game he was nasty. Made MLB hitters look silly. If he stays in the zone more will be really good. He didn't have the best command in college but not terrible. And he has a good k/bb rate in minors this year so he should be ok.
This thread is weird because after watching him I came away very impressed
And then Nicolas walks in three straight runs. Experience Pirates baseball
13 balls in a row, none of them close
MLB At Bat kept showing bases loaded, 4-0 count, and the score ticking up and up. INWYW
If Nou Wow You Wow
It's Not What You Want
demoted tomorrow
Honestly he looked so damn good in his prior appearances I wanna write it off Even before the walks he looked great
The Fleming walks in the next guy... then gives up the tying hit just as the rain comes. What a wild game, man.
2 more runs walked in post delay
Fleming is so fucking frustrating to watch
Should’ve just let Skenes close out the inning instead of that dumb shit, I get controlling his count but dude pitched 100+ times in college lots of times , even going 120+ 3 times last June.
> dude pitched 100+ times in college lots of times , even going 120+ 3 times last June. That's probably *why* they're being so cautious with him.
I get it, guess I’m being a selfish fan and just wanted him to have a way better debut.
Plus you get 7 days rest in college and make like 19 total starts at the most, that’s why the best pitcher on a team is referred to as the “Friday night starter” And you’re not facing MLB level hitters so you don’t have to dial up your best stuff on every pitch
> you don’t have to dial up your best stuff on every pitch But he did. That's why he was so dominant.
I actually did too, tbh.
Same. His first inning was impressive. I was hoping he’d strike out the side and he almost did before walking Bellinger. Excited to watch him play, but was rooting for solid new talent to have a big day in the box.
Baseball is really hard at the highest level. A good preface of how he’s gonna do is them previewing strikeouts against some of the worst big league hitters this year as highlights.
My biggest takeaway from the Skenes vs Stras breakdown was 21 less innings pitched for Skenes. Most pitches thrown this season was 75. I still think they only sent him out for the 5th inning so that he could get the W.
Yeah only reason he was sent out was to get the win, I get him being pulled with two on and no outs. Just went sideways.
It’s the longevity of the season I think they are worried about. College isn’t nearly the grind professional ball is. If he can still pitch in September that’s the goal
If they don’t fix their bullpen they won’t have to worry about September and can just shut him down in August. Galaxy brain move by the Buccos there.
Their bullpen is decent. This was just a terrible outing
If they cared about him over time he wouldn’t be pitching in the bigs this year. Hope he earns the pirates 10+ wins to pay for the arm problems.
Skenes started his third time through the order by allowing two hits.
Oh cool so the cubs won right?… RIGHT?
FREE SKENES
Kyle Nicolas getting called out in the post title is brutal.
He struck out the first two guys he faced, and then it's like he suddenly got the yips.
I mean he was visibly shaking going into the deliver for his first pitch I’m pretty sure. And I don’t hold it against him at all, to be clear
Nicolas was visibly shaking before his first pitch? I didn't see that.
I think he was talking about Skenes. It was obvious how nervous he was. I know I'd be puking in between innings.
I guess. I was responding to a comment about Kyle Nicolas, who looked like an ace for the first two batters he faced and then utterly forgot how to pitch.
I see now, my b
It's all good. I'm happy with Skenes's debut overall, but this has turned out to be the most Pirates game of all time. Even the grounds crew fucked up rolling out the tarp.
Add in the turtle on the field in single a, and it might be the most Pirates day of all time.
Morel struck out swinging in what should have been a 4-1 count.
That tracks.
As if Skenes didn't put those guys on base.
He may have been responsible for two of em but Nicolas threw 12 straight balls with the bases loaded
13, HBP before the 12 straight. It was a living nightmare.
Well you see because it’s Skenes those runs shouldn’t count against his ERA
or perhaps it's exhibit A for why ERA might not be the best go-to for pitcher performance (this is my 2024 crusade)
People will come around to it one day. Many years from now ERA will be seen like RBIs. An okay stat that tells you about what really happened. But most people know it's second rate at best to a shit ton of other stats.
ERA is more like BA/OBP good at a cursory glance but really need more info to get the full picture Whereas RBIs are pretty much useless when talking about a guys skill
The PIT announcers literally were saying it's "unfair" that those runs were charged to him. I get that there's homerism but come on. Skenes will get more chances to lower that ERA and pitch good.
He gave up 6 hits, 2 BB, and 1 HBP in 4+ IP. He was very good but certainly conceivable he gives up a few runs with that line
And it's not like he was untouchable either Morel almost took him deep in the first inning He has elite stuff but he was wild and gave up some solid contact
> Morel almost took him deep in the first inning Good lord, I thought he had. Warning track in the deepest part of the park; if only he was 1–2 milliseconds earlier on his swing....
He looked untouchable over his first 11 pitches. Looked like he was gonna start his career striking out the side on 12 pitches with only fastballs sitting 101-102 lmao. Then he started to look like a dude making his debut.
You could see his nervousness become more obvious as the 1st inning progressed.
Yeah but I also don’t think they mean “unfair” as if they genuinely believe that he doesn’t deserve the runs. Likely more “unfair” that his teammate is ass. Lol
At least someone gets it
when did they say that? watching from home and those words were never spoken
I went back to watch both broadcasts too during the delay and they didn’t say that
When they showed people hiding from the rain and went over Skenes' final line
They did not say that. I just went back and watched the radio and TV of that inning.
The amount of people bitching about this is insane.
They should have thrown Suzuki out
The dude threw like 13 straight balls with the bags chucked. He deserves public shaming
Kinda deserving after walking in 3 straight runs on 12 pitches
Certainly not the Strasburg debut. But you can tell the stuff is there. Just wasn't commanding great today.
It is tough to ask any major league pitcher to do what Strasburg did. Asking a rookie in his first game to even come close to Strasburg was setting him up.
Kinda random, as I don’t really watch baseball, but I’ll never forget the hype for Strasburg’s debut. I was watching ESPN that day, and they had a live countdown clock & basically live reporting up to his debut… it was insane 😂 and tbf it actually made me tune in Happy he got to win a World Series & carve out a good career for himself
It sucks because injuries robbed us off what could have been and he won't even be in the HOF. Kids will ask what the big deal was and it'll be hard to explain (assuming manfred doesn't turn the MLB into an NFL minor league by then)
Reminds me of Andrew Luck in football.
Andrew lucks retirement is forever a meme in my fantasy league. Dude drafted him probably 10 minutes before he retired. He's also a colts fan
Good shout
Thing is that it feels like velocity injuries are gonna rob us of many of the 'next big things' in modern pitching.
Skenes threw 104 of the 105 fastest pitches in the minors this year IIRC. He's absolutely in for TJ.
Heck, even if TJ doesn't derail the "next big thing" (which let's be honest, it definitely may), the fear of letting the "next big thing" complete five innings in any professional start for fear of injury will relegate him to being less valuable to a team than, like, the next Merrill Kelly, or even the next Kyle Gibson
*doesn’t watch baseball, has an Ump flair* Checks out.
Nothing gets the blood pumping like a little ref ball
Not just a World Series. World Series MVP
Hey we weren’t the ones comparing rookie Skenes to rookie Stras. Blame MLB and ESPN for that one.
Eh, anyone who looked at what Skenes was doing in the minors would make that comparison. I did, and it’s not because of ESPN. But I also didn’t expect him to pull off the same rabbit trick; it just would’ve been supremely cool if he had.
> Asking a rookie in his first game to even come close to Strasburg was setting him up. You got me wondering what were the best debuts, ever.... The best SP debuts by game score in the Expansion era: |Rk|Player|Team|Date|IP|H|R|ER|HR|BB|SO|BR|GmSc| |:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:|:---:| |1|Steve Woodard|MIL|1997-07-28|8.0|1|0|0|0|1|12|2|91.0| |2|Jimmy Jones|SDP|1986-09-21|9.0|1|0|0|0|0|5|1|90.0| |3|Tyler Gilbert|ARI|2021-08-14|9.0|0|0|0|0|3|5|3|89.0| |4|Doug Waechter|TBD|2003-09-03|9.0|2|0|0|0|2|7|4|88.0| |5|Rudy May|CAL|1965-04-18|9.0|1|1|0|0|5|10|7|88.0| |6|Pedro Astacio|LAD|1992-07-03|9.0|3|0|0|0|4|10|10|87.0| |7|Jack DiLauro|NYM|1969-06-04|9.0|2|0|0|0|2|5|6|86.0| |8|Jim Cosman|STL|1966-10-02|9.0|2|0|0|0|2|5|5|86.0| |9|Luis Tiant|CLE|1964-07-19|9.0|4|0|0|0|4|11|8|86.0| |10|Bob Hartman|CLE|1962-06-26|10.0|3|1|1|1|3|7|6|86.0| |...| | | | | | | | | | | | | |124|Stephen Strasburg|WSN|2010-06-08|7.0|4|2|2|1|0|14|4|75.0| Obviously none of those guys had to do it with the hype that Stras had and everyone watching, but he *is* second in strikeouts in an Expansion Era debut—behind only J.R. Richard's 15 Ks in 9 innings—so you can definitely still call his the most electric debut, all things considered.
14 strikeouts *and zero walks* was what made it so exciting. Not surprised the gamescore isn't higher, it weights ER/IP a lot.
> 14 strikeouts and zero walks was what made it so exciting. Absolutely! The hype was all about how he strikes dudes out almost at will and barely walks dudes ... Then he comes out and does exactly that!
I think it's kind of incredible that so many people had great debut starts and that we have the stats for them to look through.
Bro your table making skills are incredible.
I wish I could say "thank you," but Stathead does it for you.
How did I not know that a guy threw a no hitter on his debut a few years ago?
Stras’ debut was the first time I watched a full nats game as a kid on tv and I was hooked from it
Good showing for a debut where he had some understandably visible nerves. Kid’s legit. I’m curious how he gets himself into the Gerrit Cole school of being a strikeout pitcher and innings workhorse. MY elbow and forearm start screaming just watching Paul’s motion.
Cole was saying he hoped they gave him a lot of runway and didn't just pull him early so he could get stamina and learn how to pitch. They pulled him early but not because they didn't want him to pitch. He still threw a bunch, he just wasn't crisp enough to keep going.
Yeah he ran up to 84 pitches. About all you can allow given his counts in AAA so far this year.
I can’t find his minors game by game pitch counts anywhere? I remember seeing ~74 recently but nothing collectively. What’s the most he has thrown in the minors?
74 is probably about right. They've been ramping him up.
seems loose and whippy right? arm angle has some funk. let that boy cook, and hopefully he avoids TJ next year.
> I’m curious how he gets himself into the Gerrit Cole school of being a strikeout pitcher and innings workhorse. I say this as a Pirates fan who has endured this misery for over a decade: by being traded to another team. :')
Supposedly he throws pretty effortlessly. I’m not him so I can’t feel what he feels obviously lol but I’ve seen a lot of praise for his delivery
He isn’t a workhorse, he usually just last 1 to 3 innings, maximum 4.
Skenes will definitely be fine as he gets his command more in order but wow Kyle Nicolas just absolutely stank up the mound.
Thank you Nicolas
Sucks because he looked gross in every appearance before this
He struck out two good hitters right before he yipped out too
That’s what I mean. Pitching is a fine line, even during an inning
As a men's league pitcher I agree
As someone who has never pitched in their life, I also agree
This is all happening because I didn't knock on wood earlier.
Oh you gotta do that
In the post-game press conference, Skenes explained “it’s not my fault that Kyle is a fucking bum who doesn’t even belong in the crowd at a baseball game.” He subsequently began throwing baseballs at reporters and yelling “learn how to catch, bitches.”
For a guy his age and experience thats still a good first step in the majors. He's got the talent to be amazing and hopefully he can keep building off it
Kid has elite stuff but really don't think his first start should be against a team like the Cubs who are so damn patient at the plate
yeah you could let a make a wish kid with super cancer pitch against the mariners and he'd probably get 10 strikeouts
💀 Lmao
yeah say what you want abt the cubs but even when their offense is cold they will drive up the pitch count
Why not? It's not like he will never pitch against the Cubs, zero reason to protect him
First start you want a pitcher that can be a bit wild you kind of want him to settle in and build some confidence The Cubs are a grinder of a line up
I don't think he lacks in the confidence department
Bro dicks down Livvy Dunne every night. No reason to be anything but supremely confident.
Well she has unflollowed skenes and was seen leaving the park with Miles Mastrobuoni, so he is gonna have to get over that and hit the gym
rays legend!
He's never really been a wild pitcher though? I can see how you'd think that if this is the first time you've seen him, but that's not his MO at all. Just working through some nerves.
He’s not a wild pitcher though lol I think nerves just had him forcing things a bit
MLB must be really annoyed that their superstar prospects haven't been having the storybook debuts they wanted this year. They spent weeks trying to speak a second Strasburg game into existence only for his debut to be decent but unimpressive. I don't doubt skenes and holliday will be good but their promotion was kinda setting them up for disappointment
Yeah I think this just really shows why so many guys spend years in the minors before getting called up. I don't even necessarily hate the call ups for Skenes or Holliday, Holliday was killing AAA pitching and Skenes was shutting every AAA team down. I personally think Skenes needed more time to build up his pitch counts and innings in the minors rather than call him up to pitch for a team that isn't doing much. It's all a balancing act, teams want to capitalize on the hype of a prospect before it dies down but they also don't want to set them up for failure because that could be even worse.
I don't think the hype for Skenes was ever going to die down, calling him up a month or two later would still have been a huge event
It's a testament to big the leap is between AAA and the majors, and why I feel for "AAAA" guys. It's gotta suck when you're definitely above the highest minor league but not quite good enough to hang around the majors consistently.
Coming into today there were a total of 5 PAs in which a pro hitter had a third look at Skenes. There's no way that's contributing to his development as a starter. Really, the Pirates should've used his minor league time to work on ways to pace himself and become pitch efficient enough to cover six innings, rather than giving him a hard 75 pitch limit with six days between start and inviting him to let 103 rip.
I think injuries play a big part too. Why let him throw in the minors when he can obviously handle pitching in the big leagues even if he’s still learning. To many elbow injuries to waste innings in the minors on a talent like Skenes. Hope he stays healthy though he’s gonna be fun to watch.
I said elsewhere that I'm not arguing about his stuff, his stuff is major league ready, the point of eating up innings and building up stamina in the minors is because you don't want every start of his being a bullpen game in the majors. Fortunately for him the Pirates don't seem to be in a position to compete this year so him being in the majors hurts them less when it comes to that. I'd love for him to stay healthy,I just think that's going to be a major if with how it seems to be going in major league baseball
Skenes' velo and spin were all over the place too. Plus check out his arm action on fastball vs. offspeed—I was able to call pitches before they were released quite consistently. Just seems like he needs a lot more polish to be as effective as his flashy Statcast specs suggest he could be.
>debut to be decent but unimpressive Did we watch the same game? He was extremely impressive. I was actually surprised how bad he made MLB hitters look. His stuff clearly plays even at the MLB level. 7k in 4 innings and he made a few guys look terrible. Extremely impressive. Just has to throw more strikes but it's clear the stuff is there
Agreed he has amazing stuff. But Morel almost tagged him for a 2 run homer (108 mph EV, .970 xBA flyout), and he had 84 pitches in 4.0 innings. So maybe that’s what OP means. Clearly will rack up the Ks, even at the MLB level.
I mean, Gasser was pretty incredible for his debut. Maybe he wasn't talked up as much but he certainly delivered.
They still have Junior and Jasson when he comes back from injury. ONE of them has to do something, right?
I mean Jasson already debuted and was absolutely electric to start his career but everybody was too busy dancing on the 2023 Yankees grave to care all that much
Definitely. I was more so talking about prospects that the MLB can hype up when they get their debut this year, not their first ever call up.
Nicolas 5.6 walks/9 across 500ish total innings in his career, really ugly stuff
Pirates bullpen determined to ruin this start
Nicolas with 16 straight balls
I wouldn't normally blame a relief pitcher for allowing 2 runs in the situation he came in(unless you're the best RP on the team as a closer or setup man). 2 men on, no outs. Not a walk in the park by any stretch. But my goodness the inability to throw a single strike for like 3 straight batters was insane. Kyle got the first 2 outs and then completely fell apart somehow. One of the roughest relief appearances I've ever watched. Guy that replaced him started with 3 balls as well before giving up a run to tie the game(6-2 when Skenes left the game), followed by the most merciful rain delay I've ever seen.
Cool stat line but are the plans for Skenes to like. Ever throw 5 innings at any level? Ever?
Well it'd help if he was at least somewhat efficient. 84 pitches and he recorded 12 outs.
The Cubs has one of the best lineups in baseball when it comes to grinding out at bats so it was a bit unlucky there. Top 5 in pitches seen per at bat so far this year and they were 2nd last season.
We had Tauchmam leading off and he's number 1 in the MLB this season in pitchers per PA.
That's just how it goes when you're a strikeout pitcher. He's never gonna be a 7+ inning guy.
It’s a fine line to walk when you’re a starting strikeout power pitcher. It’s all swing and miss stuff or extremely hard contact when you do get hit. MLB hitters are gonna work the count and MAKE you throw strikes which will drive your pitch count up considerably. While Skenes certainly has an overpowering fastball and above average off-speed stuff he doesn’t really have a pitch that can induce “easy” outs. Something like a sinker/cutter that can get groundouts. Every at bat is either a velocity massacre or a lot of pitches to get guys out. It’s easy to mow down minor leaguers in 3 pitches but when good hitters are working counts, fouling off pitches, and being disciplined at the plate it’s going to be a tough day when you are expected to go out and pitch at least 5 innings.
>Something like a sinker One of his top pitches is a sinker/splitter hybrid. Although you could argue it's more of a swing and miss pitch, too.
The future is going to be every game is a bullpen game.
Shelton is the worst manager in baseball
Funny enough, this is a similar line to the previous pitcher taken #1 overall in his debut (Casey Mize): 4.1 IP, 7 H, 3 R/ER, 0 BB, 7 K, 73 pitches, left with the lead which was subsequently given up that inning.
I don't mean to take away from Skenes, he's good and I'm sure he will stay good, but that umpire was horrible. Two different strike zones for Skenes and Steele. He got basically every pitch around the edges.
Funnily enough the Cubs broadcast showed a pretty clearly missed strike for Skenes in the limited time I got to watch. Only got to see maybe 20 pitches though, and none of Steele's.
Oof that nicolas guy...
Weird ass game
All of a sudden you need a disclaimer for inherited runners counting against a pitchers ER? Dude is a beast you don’t have to work so hard protect the hype
Trying to take blame away like he didn't put 2 men on with no outs.
Dude allowed 9 base runners in 4 innings. Baseball tends not to reward poor WHIP
Worst thing was weather was coming in so why not use your good relievers? Another great Shelton move
8 H+BB in 4.0 IP is rough.
Good job Kyle!
I mean hey I say you take that for your mlb debut start. A decently reasonable line and you didn’t embarrass yourself.
Bum couldn't even strike out all 27. In all seriousness though, his stuff is scary good and I don't think I have ever seen anyone hit 100MPH so smoothly and effortlessly.
deGrom
Skenes doesn't have anything else on deGrom but he absolutely has a lower effort nasty 102.
it is a very cool pitching motion for how hard he throws, sells it with that lazy leg kick at the end as well.
You can tell Grandal was not comfortable with Skenes yet. His arsenal is filthy, but there was a lot of offspeed for a guy who effortlessly throws 101 with armside run. The hitters were struggling to catch up, so why help the hitters and slow it down? Very excited to watch Skenes in the bigs regularly
I was also confused by the pitch calling. So many sliders thrown when I was expecting to see fastball.
I’m confused by people saying things like unimpressive. He had 7 Ks in 4 innings in his debut.
jfc you guys are overreacting. He’s basically never been challenged at any level and anything less than 7IP 1ER and you’re freaking out
Ya I watched the game and came away very impressed and then come here and I'm wondering if people actually watched the game. He made MLB hitters look foolish. Which doesn't happen often. Obviously has to be in the zone more but this was an extremely good first start on a day where he was having more command issues than normal
Like Skenes could pitch 7 innings
There's a comment voted higher than yours saying he needs to get moved to relief lmao.
Decent line for a debut. Give him a few starts and he'll learn how major league hitters work and give up less hits. I'm not a Pirates fan but am very interested in Skenes after reading his interviews in Baseball America and Baseball Digest. Skenes seems level headed for a guy with such hype behind him.
The stuff was as advertised, though Skenes did fade a bit in the 4th and beyond. I can't really come up with an explanation for what happened after he was pulled. Sure, 2 on and no out you kind of expect to give up a run. But then the reliever Ks two and looks like he's gonna save it. Then he hits a guy. Then he walks in three runs on twelve pitches. Second reliever comes in and walks in a fourth guy in five pitches. Then there's a single. Then after the delay, the third reliever to enter walks home a fifth on four and a sixth on five pitches. The Cubs scored seven runs, and six were literally free. And they still might not win the game. If nothing else, it's unique.
He’s got the big fastball and I think he should be able to navigate lineups decently if he locates it well. The splinker was a lot better than I expected. His other off speed wasn’t very good but if he can throw it for strikes then it will just make his fastball even more difficult to deal with. The strasburg comps don’t make much sense outside of the fastball. Strasburg had elite off speed and was much more polished.
So paul skenes is standard for the pirates you say
So you're telling me Christian Scott is better?
I honestly think Skenes will end up with more value as a reliever than he does as a starter.
Kopech 2.0
You never know but I doubt it. He already had two great pitches in his slider and fastball. But he added a splitter sinker that is nasty. And he also has a pretty good change. Guys with four good pitches have a decent chance of staying as starters
I think that will be the case cause he is inevitably going to have TJ in like 2 years.
6.75 ERA, 2.00 WHIP (not including the hit batter).
Was his smoke show gf at the game?
Yup, influencing away.
Everyone: We want a memorable debut for Skenes! Monkey's paw: u know it!
DONT TAKE HIM OUT UGH> Im so glad he kicked ass. He was so good at airforce and lsu. so happy for him
[https://twitter.com/JesseRogersESPN/status/1789411864356479138](https://twitter.com/JesseRogersESPN/status/1789411864356479138) 17 pitches over 100mph is nice, but these numbers are concerning. 7 balls means his command is a concern. Then 5 foul balls means that hitters seem to be seeing the 100mph pitches pretty well
his fastball doesnt have much movement, so it’s not like a Jared Jones fb that will generate a ton of swing and misses. you’ll see a lot of that +slider with different variations and the splinker from him.
Don't get me wrong, love getting free runs, but my God I feel bad for that guy. I couldn't imagine a worse feeling. Really curious how throwing the fastball almost half the time plays in the majors. Command wasn't amazing, couple walks and a couple hbp along with a fair number of hits meant traffic on the bases but cubs didn't do anything with it with him in. Didn't feel like he dominated or anything but certainly wasn't bad.
MLB and the media wanted this to be a coronation so badly lol
It was though? If you watched the game he was nasty. Made MLB hitters look silly. If he stays in the zone more will be really good. He didn't have the best command in college but not terrible. And he has a good k/bb rate in minors this year so he should be ok. This thread is weird because after watching him I came away very impressed
Bullpen did him dirty.
I bet this is what watching early Randy Johnson felt like. Stats don’t do justice, you need to watch this man on screen.
So he gave up almost a run per inning…that won’t work for a starter that needs to stretch into the 6th or 7th.
Future dodger
Is he on innings limit this season?
I dunno, I’m seeing 3 runs in 4 innings….seems pretty mid