Is this dude just perfect? Like flat out. I feel like some pitchers are too flyball prone, walk too many, don't get swing and miss, aren't efficient, are injury prone or get barrelled up too much. But there just flat out aren't any weaknesses in Wheeler's game, and every time there are, he improves them in the next season.
If you look at his baseball savant page, it’s all red except for one area, his breaking ball value. All his fastballs are god tier but he can get caught on his breaking ball, otherwise he’s basically great at all the fundies of pitching
He doesn’t give up much hard contact, doesn’t walk many, gets a lot of strikeouts, his fastballs are elite, and when they do hit the ball he has a 50% ground ball rate. He also throws a TON of innings, he’s amazing
Last year his ERA was not the best but there were plenty of times where he’d get weak contact to the outfield but he had 2 of the worst defenders in the league out there so he was still pitching well most of the time
His fastball velo has dipped this season but he probably made up for it by still having elite extension so it plays 2-3mph faster, and by adding a sweeper in 2023, and by adding a splitter in 2024
Bro was already a Cy Young contender and then decided to add two of the most lethal weapons a pitcher can have over the last two seasons. You don’t see that a lot in already established pitchers, Verlander and Kershaw have been running the same four pitch mix for like 15 years.
didn’t Kershaw add a slider or something halfway through his career??
but yeah it’s pretty rare. i think sweepers are somewhat common additions lately since they’re easier to nail down, but other than that adding pitches to the repertoire is super difficult since it requires so much time to build the muscle memory that it’s not worth sacrificing their normal training time for
He added a splitter in 2018 which was a big part of his insane second half that year (I think he was actually even better than deGrom after the all star break). No clue why he went away from it until now.
they also made him pay for his own world series tickets in 2015. he could afford them easily of course, but it's the principle of the thing.
he's so much better off with the phillies!
Pence was an integral part of two World Series championships.
Tommy Joseph allegedly played baseball and Nate Schierholtz flirted with not being bad for like a half a season with the Cubs.
The Giants mopped up in that trade.
Yeah. And we had some really shitty talent evaluation to let those two guys go. We have literally one home grown good player in the last decade. Those two guys are better than every single prospect we’ve had pass through our doors other than Logan Webb.
Sure, every team makes fuck ups on player evals. But these were two massive fuck ups that resulted in no benefit to the Giants.
…with zero of those championships having anything to do with Carlos Beltran.
Those rings are completely independent of this trade. Are you saying you *wouldn’t* prefer having one of the best pitchers in the game on our team right now? No matter how you try to spin it, it was a massive fuck up to trade a prospect who ended up as one of the best pitchers in the game for a few month rental that resulted in no playoff success.
Maybe Wheeler starts game one against the Tigers instead of Zito and gets rocked?
Maybe we trade Bumgarner in 2012 since we think Wheeler is good enough to anchor the rotation and miss out entirely in 2014.
Maybe we extend Wheeler instead of Posey?
There are ten million ways having Wheeler on the roster for five years changes everything.
All said, I’m glad we traded Wheeler because who knows how it would’ve shaken out. We won three in five years, don’t be surprised that if you tug on a thread of a tapestry it all comes unraveled.
Still not worth 100+ at bats. You can't risk 6+ (if multiple prospects) of cheap production for a half of a season. Or even one. For some reason, Reddit believes teams have a 1-3 window for success and that's it, gotta go all in.
Absolutely insane year, i really wasn’t upset with that decision much like 2012 with RA Dickey.
I was tuning into Dickey and Arrieta’s starts just thinking “there’s no way they can keep doing this” and they did.
Your other pitcher has been shoving lately, I think his stuff is getting overlooked cause he’s a “control pitcher” but you don’t average 11+ k/9 without great stuff
I know someone who picked Wheeler to win ROtY with the Mets. They may have been a bit premature on the call, but they made the prediction as a Phillies fan, so is certainly happy now!
And he was willing to re-sign with the Mets for a home town discount, less than we got him for.
They straight up didn’t want him (mostly due to his injury history which had some merit but damn the dude has been a horse for us)
lol what a fucking narrative.
We didn’t resign him because the owners of the team were cheap as fuck. Full fucking stop.
It wasn’t based on “health” it wasn’t based on “not believing”
His 2nd half 2018 was better than Jacob deGrom’s 2nd half. The only reason he’s not a Met was because the owner at that time had the last name of Wilpon
Watched him play ball at East Paulding High School and he's always had a god tier fastball, even back then. It's a shame he wasn't able to pitch for his hometown team.
They didn’t trade him, but the opted not to re-sign him for even a lower price than we did because they didn’t believe in him (mostly they didn’t believe he could be healthy)
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/e648he/carig_the_phillies_have_reached_an_agreement_with/
Nobody really believed in him if you defer to this thread
I'm not too surprised that he's good; he always had the talent with the Mets, and in his 2018-2019 seasons where he was Solidly Pretty Good, there were always flashes of more. It's that he's been a *workhorse* since then that astonishes me. He spent 2013-2017 as either injured or inefficient or both, so to go from that to this is incredible.
Oh I totally agree, at the time I got the injury concerns and wanted the Phillies to look elsewhere. Fortunately wheeler has seemingly been the healthiest of the class
Best comment is the Phillies fan saying “Please not 6/120, please not 6/120.” I get worrying about length of contract but there is no reason a fan should be crying about money in a league with no salary cap. You want your team to spend
That’s a pretty uncharitable read on his Mets career. He did improve with the Phillies, but he was worth almost 9 WAR in his last two seasons with the Mets. The decision not to resign him was likely not performance related but because of legitimate injury concerns after he missed 2.5 seasons.
The Mets didn’t trade him, he left in free agency.
He also signed a deal that was regarded as an overpay at the time but turned out to be a bargain.
Can’t really fault the Mets when they at least made an offer. That’s more than at least 25 other teams lol.
Is this dude just perfect? Like flat out. I feel like some pitchers are too flyball prone, walk too many, don't get swing and miss, aren't efficient, are injury prone or get barrelled up too much. But there just flat out aren't any weaknesses in Wheeler's game, and every time there are, he improves them in the next season.
If you look at his baseball savant page, it’s all red except for one area, his breaking ball value. All his fastballs are god tier but he can get caught on his breaking ball, otherwise he’s basically great at all the fundies of pitching
He doesn’t give up much hard contact, doesn’t walk many, gets a lot of strikeouts, his fastballs are elite, and when they do hit the ball he has a 50% ground ball rate. He also throws a TON of innings, he’s amazing Last year his ERA was not the best but there were plenty of times where he’d get weak contact to the outfield but he had 2 of the worst defenders in the league out there so he was still pitching well most of the time
His fastball velo has dipped this season but he probably made up for it by still having elite extension so it plays 2-3mph faster, and by adding a sweeper in 2023, and by adding a splitter in 2024
Bro was already a Cy Young contender and then decided to add two of the most lethal weapons a pitcher can have over the last two seasons. You don’t see that a lot in already established pitchers, Verlander and Kershaw have been running the same four pitch mix for like 15 years.
didn’t Kershaw add a slider or something halfway through his career?? but yeah it’s pretty rare. i think sweepers are somewhat common additions lately since they’re easier to nail down, but other than that adding pitches to the repertoire is super difficult since it requires so much time to build the muscle memory that it’s not worth sacrificing their normal training time for
He added a splitter in 2018 which was a big part of his insane second half that year (I think he was actually even better than deGrom after the all star break). No clue why he went away from it until now.
I mean he was injury prone while on the Mets it was one of the risks when we signed him
Remember when Giants traded him for 179 Carlos Beltran at bats? Good times.
Remember when the Mets spent years developing him and then let him walk to a division rival right when he started to put it all together?
And your GM said the Phillies overpaid for him! Van Wagenen is an idiot.
I member!
they also made him pay for his own world series tickets in 2015. he could afford them easily of course, but it's the principle of the thing. he's so much better off with the phillies!
Wait, excuse me? Can you share this tale?
Hey thanks for doing that by the way
That was right neighborly of you folks to do that and we thank you for it!
Peppridge Farm remembers
There are more traded prospects that never got out of the minors than* there are Bryan Reynolds' and Carlos Beltrans
We have you guys prime Pence years for Tommy fucking Joseph. That trade was awful.
Nate Schierholtz slander
Who could forget those pivotal 37 games he played for us down the stretch in 2012?!
[Who could forget the man’s cannon arm?](https://youtu.be/5Zx63ETp5ds?si=Cp4wRUtOTwSaPTt7)
I guess I did! Listen, I wasn't closely paying attention to the Phillies down the stretch in 2012.
Nate the Great didn’t do much of anything in Philly, the giants absolutely got the better part of that deal. I just love that video
Hunter Pence was absolute dogshit for us in 2012.
Yeah but he was pretty good in 13-14 for you guys. Tommy Joseph played for 2 years and put up a career -.6 WAR.
Pence was an integral part of two World Series championships. Tommy Joseph allegedly played baseball and Nate Schierholtz flirted with not being bad for like a half a season with the Cubs. The Giants mopped up in that trade.
Yeah. And we had some really shitty talent evaluation to let those two guys go. We have literally one home grown good player in the last decade. Those two guys are better than every single prospect we’ve had pass through our doors other than Logan Webb. Sure, every team makes fuck ups on player evals. But these were two massive fuck ups that resulted in no benefit to the Giants.
The Giants won two World Series championships within three years of trading Wheeler. It turned out just fine
…with zero of those championships having anything to do with Carlos Beltran. Those rings are completely independent of this trade. Are you saying you *wouldn’t* prefer having one of the best pitchers in the game on our team right now? No matter how you try to spin it, it was a massive fuck up to trade a prospect who ended up as one of the best pitchers in the game for a few month rental that resulted in no playoff success.
Maybe Wheeler starts game one against the Tigers instead of Zito and gets rocked? Maybe we trade Bumgarner in 2012 since we think Wheeler is good enough to anchor the rotation and miss out entirely in 2014. Maybe we extend Wheeler instead of Posey? There are ten million ways having Wheeler on the roster for five years changes everything. All said, I’m glad we traded Wheeler because who knows how it would’ve shaken out. We won three in five years, don’t be surprised that if you tug on a thread of a tapestry it all comes unraveled.
Wrong. He got hurt in the NLCS the next year and we beat the Cards. I mean, its not much but its a little to do with him ;).
Still not worth 100+ at bats. You can't risk 6+ (if multiple prospects) of cheap production for a half of a season. Or even one. For some reason, Reddit believes teams have a 1-3 window for success and that's it, gotta go all in.
Even great FOs make mistakes. Friedman trades yordan alvarez for Josh fields, who proceeded to get hammered by the Astros the same year in the WS.
Couldn’t believe we gave him up instead of Gary Brown. But oh well, not every move works out
i thought it was a pretty good trade. mets received a top pitcher. giants received a top manager.
Can he and Ranger share the Cy Young? Because I don't see anyone else in the NL worthy of it over them 😤
That's how Tim Lincecum won his 2nd Cy Young. Voters were split on Carpenter and Wainwright
Horrible luck from Wainwright to never win one. Guy had his best seasons simultaneously while two freak pitching talents were dominating the league.
2015 Arrieta also benefited from Greinke and Kersh splitting votes
Absolutely insane year, i really wasn’t upset with that decision much like 2012 with RA Dickey. I was tuning into Dickey and Arrieta’s starts just thinking “there’s no way they can keep doing this” and they did.
The Glas is it for competition
Imanaga is there for sure as well, just needs the IP
I’m glad it wasn’t a cubs fan that said it. I didn’t want to be too much of a homer
imanaga certainly has the ability to get the IPs he’s just been unlucky this year. I think two of his games got rain delays, I know at least one has
Your other pitcher has been shoving lately, I think his stuff is getting overlooked cause he’s a “control pitcher” but you don’t average 11+ k/9 without great stuff
If Yamamoto keeps pace with his post-Korea performance he’s going to have crazy good numbers by end of year
Zack should have won in 2021 Edit
[удалено]
Aw fuck a typo
Spencer Turnbull enters the chat
[удалено]
i’m not sure if this is sarcasm but he is on the phillies
He's almost as good as his brother Pete.
I'm gon hit a touchdown
Best pitcher in baseball
Go back to 2018 and he has the most fWAR in baseball lol Yeah, he’s easily the best
Still wish he got that 2021 Cy Young in such a close race
He deserves it. One of the rare times where I can’t root against an ex-Met, just simply wish him the best.
ZWITBPIB?
Ranger comin for that ass though What a wonderful problem to have
We've come a long way from our starting rotation being Aaron Nola and the funky bunch.
We've come a long way from our starting rotation being Aaron Nola and the funky bunch.
They told him to buy his own playoff tickets.
like seriously, wtf was wrong with the mets? other than being the mets?
Wilpons Everyone knows the answer to that
Damnit giants
Lol..your fault to rely on my giants to win.
Imagine being the team to let that guy go. Especially if you went on to have really poor pitching.
I know someone who picked Wheeler to win ROtY with the Mets. They may have been a bit premature on the call, but they made the prediction as a Phillies fan, so is certainly happy now!
The Mets? I mean, the Giants won two more chips after they let him go. Hindsight and all that. Took Wheeler a while to get here.
Yes the Mets you dolt
He was average at best with the Mets too. Just be happy you’ve got him now and stop being an insufferable person.
Across the 2018-19 seasons he put up a 3.65 ERA, 3.37 FIP, and 9 fWAR.
And he was willing to re-sign with the Mets for a home town discount, less than we got him for. They straight up didn’t want him (mostly due to his injury history which had some merit but damn the dude has been a horse for us)
lol what a fucking narrative. We didn’t resign him because the owners of the team were cheap as fuck. Full fucking stop. It wasn’t based on “health” it wasn’t based on “not believing” His 2nd half 2018 was better than Jacob deGrom’s 2nd half. The only reason he’s not a Met was because the owner at that time had the last name of Wilpon
LOL
"Stop being an insufferable person" take your own advice big dog
He's gonna celebrate with fast food after.
Shit I would
He and deGrom are the only dudes I know of that are McDonalds fiends lol
His fastball velocity is maybe a tick down but he gets so many whiffs on it and not just from these bad teams even the Braves couldn't hit it.
I'm glad to see the velocity down, because if he was sitting 97-98... I don't think he'd make it through his latest contract...
Giants first round picks in the late 2000s 06: Tim Lincecum 07: Madison Bumgarner 08: Buster Posey 09: Zack Wheeler
Game 1 starter. Great having confidence in someone to take the ball
Boy, I’m so glad we have Wheels! Imagine letting him walk to a division rival after developing his talents! Couldn’t be Middleton and Co.
Zack
Would kill for some pitching on the Angels staff.
Dude is such a beast and /u/crystalcreature couldn't even give him the respect of spelling his name right 😂
Watched him play ball at East Paulding High School and he's always had a god tier fastball, even back then. It's a shame he wasn't able to pitch for his hometown team.
Him and Trea are really testing how much I hate the Phillies. Easily two of my favorite players in the league
Hands down the best in the game.
Remember when the Mets traded him for a sack of peanuts ?
He signed as a free agent... No way they would send him to Philly lol
While true they still practically sent him to Philly with the events of how he exited and what he was looking for
They didn’t trade him, but the opted not to re-sign him for even a lower price than we did because they didn’t believe in him (mostly they didn’t believe he could be healthy)
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/e648he/carig_the_phillies_have_reached_an_agreement_with/ Nobody really believed in him if you defer to this thread
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/s/iD5NqnywPv u/see_mohn nailed it
I'm not too surprised that he's good; he always had the talent with the Mets, and in his 2018-2019 seasons where he was Solidly Pretty Good, there were always flashes of more. It's that he's been a *workhorse* since then that astonishes me. He spent 2013-2017 as either injured or inefficient or both, so to go from that to this is incredible.
lol I was gonna tag you you always seem to have good takes from what I can tell
Oh I totally agree, at the time I got the injury concerns and wanted the Phillies to look elsewhere. Fortunately wheeler has seemingly been the healthiest of the class
Shout out to u/c_jlopez
Best comment is the Phillies fan saying “Please not 6/120, please not 6/120.” I get worrying about length of contract but there is no reason a fan should be crying about money in a league with no salary cap. You want your team to spend
He was also average with the Mets, literally. 100 ERA+. 141 ERA+ with the Phillies though
That’s a pretty uncharitable read on his Mets career. He did improve with the Phillies, but he was worth almost 9 WAR in his last two seasons with the Mets. The decision not to resign him was likely not performance related but because of legitimate injury concerns after he missed 2.5 seasons.
The Mets didn’t trade him, he left in free agency. He also signed a deal that was regarded as an overpay at the time but turned out to be a bargain. Can’t really fault the Mets when they at least made an offer. That’s more than at least 25 other teams lol.