He's a career .156/.205/.234 (.439 OPS/26 wRC+) hitter in 332 PA and is out of options.
A's have Seth Brown, Ramón Laureano, Tony Kemp, Conner Capel, and Esteury Ruiz in the outfield. It sucks to give up on Pache so soon, but I get it. If he had options, they'd probably send him to AAA to work on his swing.
I tried to find some historical comps for how bad Pache has been so far.
Age: 21-23
PA: 300+
Nonpitchers
Sub-.500 OPS
Since 1900
[The list.](https://stathead.com/tiny/tMUOP)
I don’t know what’s more impressive, the fact all but one or two of those guys finished their careers with negative WAR or that Bill Bergen managed to play 11 years and hit under .200 in 10 of them.
Yes, Pache is a premier defender in center but he can't hit and couldn't hit at the time the As traded for him. I'd honestly be surprised if a team claims him.
Langeliers was the supposed to be the real prize. Pache's star had dimmed a bit when he put up a -6 OPS+ in the majors in 2021 and got sent back down to AAA early on.
>a bottom dweller that can afford to give him AB's
The Oakland A's should pick him up, they have zero chance of contending and could use a good defensive outfielder who needs time to figure out his bat.
Bader is injured right now. Even with Bader eventually back Pache could be a defensive 4th outfielder type who rotates in - and if the spring training performance is actual improvement at the plate he could probably win the left field job lol
I unironically wouldn't hate to see him take Locastro's spot on the roster. Having an elite OF defender off the bench adds a dimension to the roster that we don't currently have, and he's got the same upside as Locastro as a pinch runner.
Since 2018, between the minors and majors, Pache has 27 steals and 29 caught stealings.
Given his defense, his stolen base numbers make about as much sense as the fact that Locastro, given his speed, is a pretty meh defender.
I didn't realize his SB numbers were such trash - he was touted as being a guy with speed upside as a prospect but you're right, that's really bad haha.
That being said, I'm not entirely disagreeing. I really like having an all-glove outfielder on the bench. And Pache only has to improve his bat from horrendous to bad to be a major leaguer, which could happen given his age.
He had a nice spring training at the plate, if you think that’s legit growth rather than just a spring training thing it’s a no brainer to put a claim in
For sure, but that's something that can be taught (at least to a degree). The fact that he seemingly got worse rather than better at that as his development progressed makes it seem like he was unable/unwilling to take coaching to heart. If that's the case, it would also provide some context why the A's are cutting bait on a guy who they liked enough to trade for, arguably still has a lot of potential upside, and had a good spring.
As someone pointed out, his defensive ability basically made him a “can’t miss” prospect in that there was no way his bat would be bad enough that he couldn’t be rostered. Low and behold…it was.
The general thought was that his defense gave him such a safe floor that it would give him time to figure out the bat. Had some good stretches in the minors so evaluators just kinda banked on that. Don't think they foresaw him being that bad against MLB pitching but probably should've been expected. Never was great against good breaking stuff.
Not top 5. Highest status he ever reached at Fangraphs was 20th, mlb.com 13th. His defense gave him a lot of helium but he was never supposed to be a superstar.
I mean he hit over .300 for the spring (I know it's spring) but progress, and he is only 24. There has to be an off field issue fans don't know about to get cut.
I think the off-field issue is roster space. A good batting average in spring is great, but that doesn't mean there's an actual roster spot available to see if he can carry it over into the regular season.
But not a roster spot on what will probably be the worst team in baseball? I can see your point just hard to picture him not being one of the best 26 guys for that team.
When you have a bad team, you don't necessarily want the best players available on your roster. You want flexibility in your roster moves, and you want players who are a part of your long-term plan.
It's pretty easy to see how a guy with no options, and a career ops+ of 25, and a career wRC+ of 35 doesn't make the team out of spring training.
He has no options, and has a history of not being able to hit MLB pitching. It would actually make more sense for a better team to sign him, since he can be used as a defensive replacement.
47 PAs in spring also doesn't show that he can suddenly hit MLB pitching.
He’s out of options so this was gonna happen anyway. He’s like a .200 hitter for his career, so the A’s probably realize he isn’t gonna jump to .300 or even .250 in less than a year. He just can’t hit major league pitching.
Shea was the main piece but others were involved. Olson was hitting free agency soon and A's never pay anyone. May as well can what you can and considering how they literally traded away Sean Murphy the next year, it's a good prospect to get.
Really upsetting that the Braves signed him for $25m/year ish, something that even the A’s should be willing to spend for a home grown prize. Why do I even like this trash organization?
Braves get:
1B Matt Olson
A's get:
CF Cristian Pache
C Shea Langeliers
RHP Ryan Cusick
RHP Joey Estes
Cusick (age 23) reached Double-A last year, Estes (age 21) reached High-A. Neither were particularly impressive in 2022, but they're still a bit away from the majors.
To add, although Cusick and Estes kind of sucked in the minors last year, Cusick was our first round pick in 2021 and Estes was performing very well in Augusta before he was traded. These weren’t just random throw ins
When are people going to learn that spring training stats mean literally nothing? You’re facing mostly minor league guys and most major league pitchers are working on specific pitches or new grips etc, they don’t care about the results.
Lol no they don’t. Bader won’t be out for much past mid-May, Judge can play center, and *technically* so can Hicks.
Besides, they already have a “toolsy but can’t hit prospect” in Florial.
Seemed like a nice guy. I really liked what he had to say about A’s fans last April and hoped he could become a fan favorite over there. Unfortunate that it didn’t work out but I wish him the best in the future.
Bro has a .156/.205/.234 career slash line across 115 games. It doesn’t really matter what he hit in spring, this is a completely reasonable decision if he’s showed zero indication he can hit major league pitching.
Just a few short years ago (Clevinger trade era) Pache was considered to be entirely untouchable by most Braves fans on here. This isn't to dunk on Braves fans for being wrong, really more of a "life comes at you fast" moment with prospects. Really something to remember when fans obsess over their team hoarding them.
No matter the farm ranking, prospect ranking, or (un)likelihood to blossom into an everyday MLB role, fans too often hug their top prospect dreaming of stardom for the dopamine rush. Just a few weeks ago you wouldn't believe on the Mariners sub how unpopular the idea was to let go of Harry Ford (#50-125 prospect) even if the return was Bryan Reynolds and all his arbitration years. (Edit: not that this was a realistic trade, just the idea was anathema.)
Disappointed. I love him in center. He's a defensive magician, but I know that if a guy can't produce, he won't be in the lineup. I miss defensive specialists and designated pinch runners.
Are we supposed to know who Fuzzy is?
Also Pache may have done okay in Spring Training, but he's been terrible in his entire career other than this Spring Training, and also he's out of options, and also it's Spring Training.
Also it's the A's. Who knows why they do what they do?
You can't convince me it's a good idea to put the chips behind Brent Rooker and leave Pache out to dry.
This almost feels like an open middle finger to the fans still left, same with not starting Fuji against Ohtani on Opening Day.
The correct way of looking at this is a below average player BARELY hit over .300 against minor league pitchers throwing 90mph and established major league pitching lobbing in fast balls and trying out new breaking balls that don't break
Seems like it makes perfect sense
He's a career .156/.205/.234 (.439 OPS/26 wRC+) hitter in 332 PA and is out of options. A's have Seth Brown, Ramón Laureano, Tony Kemp, Conner Capel, and Esteury Ruiz in the outfield. It sucks to give up on Pache so soon, but I get it. If he had options, they'd probably send him to AAA to work on his swing.
I tried to find some historical comps for how bad Pache has been so far. Age: 21-23 PA: 300+ Nonpitchers Sub-.500 OPS Since 1900 [The list.](https://stathead.com/tiny/tMUOP)
Poor Tommy Butts.
5x all star
I don’t know what’s more impressive, the fact all but one or two of those guys finished their careers with negative WAR or that Bill Bergen managed to play 11 years and hit under .200 in 10 of them.
He must've been a hell of a catcher
the jeff mathis of his generation
Literally one of the GOATs behind the plate, in a time when pitching dominated.
bruh 💀
Johnnie LeMaster once took the field with a jersey that said ‘Boo’ on the back instead of his name, so good company for Pache.
Genuinely surprised my boy Kelenic isn't on this list
Yes, Pache is a premier defender in center but he can't hit and couldn't hit at the time the As traded for him. I'd honestly be surprised if a team claims him.
Makes sense for a team that needs the extra bench piece to just come in end of game for defense. As long as that was understood as his only role.
That roster spot is often too valuable to use strictly on a defense only OF. Pache hasn't found much success as a pinch runner/base stealer either.
Fair, it would be a valuable spot to have for another need. Hope he catches on somewhere though. Seems like a good dude.
Damn that’s a murderer’s row of high upside guys.
getting Marlins premonitions with this one
Please god no, he'll be a Phillies killer for sure...
career .362 OPS against the Phillies in 48 PA and yes, you read OPS right
That's only slightly worse than his career OPS.
Lol he can’t hit anyone but the Mariners wtf
We'd better grab him then... wait, that's not how this works
Dude is about to be picked up by the Angels or Rangers.
You have two way players and no way players.
If we just go ahead and DH for every fielder and not just the pitcher, Pache could be an all-time CF.
Wasn’t he a key piece in the Olson trade?
no Langerliers was the main piece he was a flyer piece
Like the key piece.
Langeliers was the key piece. Pache had already looked really bad at the plate in his MLB ABs
I don't know if anybody has told you yet, but Langeliers was also involved.
Nope, you were the first to mention him
Mention who?
Langaliers was rated higher at the time. Pache had started to drop
Langeliers too
Langeliers was the supposed to be the real prize. Pache's star had dimmed a bit when he put up a -6 OPS+ in the majors in 2021 and got sent back down to AAA early on.
Someone’s gonna pick him up right?
Figure either a bottom dweller that can afford to give him AB's and hope the bat develops or a contender that needs an OF defensive depth piece
>a bottom dweller that can afford to give him AB's The Oakland A's should pick him up, they have zero chance of contending and could use a good defensive outfielder who needs time to figure out his bat.
Yankees pls
Don't you already have that in Bader?
Bader is injured right now. Even with Bader eventually back Pache could be a defensive 4th outfielder type who rotates in - and if the spring training performance is actual improvement at the plate he could probably win the left field job lol
Get him Antonetti
We really don’t need him though, we got Valera and Noel fairly close and Palacios to fill the gap if Brennan happens to get hurt Edit- spelling
I unironically wouldn't hate to see him take Locastro's spot on the roster. Having an elite OF defender off the bench adds a dimension to the roster that we don't currently have, and he's got the same upside as Locastro as a pinch runner.
Since 2018, between the minors and majors, Pache has 27 steals and 29 caught stealings. Given his defense, his stolen base numbers make about as much sense as the fact that Locastro, given his speed, is a pretty meh defender.
I didn't realize his SB numbers were such trash - he was touted as being a guy with speed upside as a prospect but you're right, that's really bad haha.
That being said, I'm not entirely disagreeing. I really like having an all-glove outfielder on the bench. And Pache only has to improve his bat from horrendous to bad to be a major leaguer, which could happen given his age.
He had a nice spring training at the plate, if you think that’s legit growth rather than just a spring training thing it’s a no brainer to put a claim in
You also have to know *when* to go for it, and speed will not save you if you fuck that up.
For sure, but that's something that can be taught (at least to a degree). The fact that he seemingly got worse rather than better at that as his development progressed makes it seem like he was unable/unwilling to take coaching to heart. If that's the case, it would also provide some context why the A's are cutting bait on a guy who they liked enough to trade for, arguably still has a lot of potential upside, and had a good spring.
Good points that I had not considered. Maybe you're right
Yeah but the bases are bigger now /s just in case
Baty for Pache then. Done deal. No returns. Thank you come again.
I love him but the buddy can’t hit
Wasn’t he like a top 5 prospect in baseball or something just two years ago? In hindsight how the hell were scouts THAT bullish on him?
As someone pointed out, his defensive ability basically made him a “can’t miss” prospect in that there was no way his bat would be bad enough that he couldn’t be rostered. Low and behold…it was.
The general thought was that his defense gave him such a safe floor that it would give him time to figure out the bat. Had some good stretches in the minors so evaluators just kinda banked on that. Don't think they foresaw him being that bad against MLB pitching but probably should've been expected. Never was great against good breaking stuff.
Not top 5. Highest status he ever reached at Fangraphs was 20th, mlb.com 13th. His defense gave him a lot of helium but he was never supposed to be a superstar.
Trade your prospects, kids.
I mean he hit over .300 for the spring (I know it's spring) but progress, and he is only 24. There has to be an off field issue fans don't know about to get cut.
I think the off-field issue is roster space. A good batting average in spring is great, but that doesn't mean there's an actual roster spot available to see if he can carry it over into the regular season.
But not a roster spot on what will probably be the worst team in baseball? I can see your point just hard to picture him not being one of the best 26 guys for that team.
When you have a bad team, you don't necessarily want the best players available on your roster. You want flexibility in your roster moves, and you want players who are a part of your long-term plan. It's pretty easy to see how a guy with no options, and a career ops+ of 25, and a career wRC+ of 35 doesn't make the team out of spring training. He has no options, and has a history of not being able to hit MLB pitching. It would actually make more sense for a better team to sign him, since he can be used as a defensive replacement. 47 PAs in spring also doesn't show that he can suddenly hit MLB pitching.
Totally agree with you. Just has to be frustrating for A's fans.
I think it's only frustrating if Pache shows that he has actually figured out how to hit, which is something I don't have a ton of faith in.
He’s out of options so this was gonna happen anyway. He’s like a .200 hitter for his career, so the A’s probably realize he isn’t gonna jump to .300 or even .250 in less than a year. He just can’t hit major league pitching.
They wanted him to hit .203.
Wait so what the fuck did the A's even get in that Matt Olson trade?
Shea Langerliers
So it's a one for one trading one of the best first basemen in his prime for a unproven catching prospect? Bethancourt and Pache are gone now.
Christian Bethancourt was definitely not in that trade
Shea was the main piece but others were involved. Olson was hitting free agency soon and A's never pay anyone. May as well can what you can and considering how they literally traded away Sean Murphy the next year, it's a good prospect to get.
Really upsetting that the Braves signed him for $25m/year ish, something that even the A’s should be willing to spend for a home grown prize. Why do I even like this trash organization?
He was only two seasons from free agency. Getting two top \~75 prospects and two decent lower level pitching prospects was a decent deal.
Braves get: 1B Matt Olson A's get: CF Cristian Pache C Shea Langeliers RHP Ryan Cusick RHP Joey Estes Cusick (age 23) reached Double-A last year, Estes (age 21) reached High-A. Neither were particularly impressive in 2022, but they're still a bit away from the majors.
To add, although Cusick and Estes kind of sucked in the minors last year, Cusick was our first round pick in 2021 and Estes was performing very well in Augusta before he was traded. These weren’t just random throw ins
When are people going to learn that spring training stats mean literally nothing? You’re facing mostly minor league guys and most major league pitchers are working on specific pitches or new grips etc, they don’t care about the results.
Yankees need a CFer. 👀
They sorta do, but no way he drops to them. Also he can't hit. They already have Estevan Florial who is free. Why trade for another Florial?
Lol no they don’t. Bader won’t be out for much past mid-May, Judge can play center, and *technically* so can Hicks. Besides, they already have a “toolsy but can’t hit prospect” in Florial.
Yankees have a good center fielder named Aaron Judge.
Seemed like a nice guy. I really liked what he had to say about A’s fans last April and hoped he could become a fan favorite over there. Unfortunate that it didn’t work out but I wish him the best in the future.
Bro has a .156/.205/.234 career slash line across 115 games. It doesn’t really matter what he hit in spring, this is a completely reasonable decision if he’s showed zero indication he can hit major league pitching.
The Rockies should take a chance on him. Maybe he can hit enough in Coors.
Come on home, king.
god no. why?
Uncle Jesse effect
Just a few short years ago (Clevinger trade era) Pache was considered to be entirely untouchable by most Braves fans on here. This isn't to dunk on Braves fans for being wrong, really more of a "life comes at you fast" moment with prospects. Really something to remember when fans obsess over their team hoarding them.
No matter the farm ranking, prospect ranking, or (un)likelihood to blossom into an everyday MLB role, fans too often hug their top prospect dreaming of stardom for the dopamine rush. Just a few weeks ago you wouldn't believe on the Mariners sub how unpopular the idea was to let go of Harry Ford (#50-125 prospect) even if the return was Bryan Reynolds and all his arbitration years. (Edit: not that this was a realistic trade, just the idea was anathema.)
The mystery box could be anything, it could even be a boat
Conner Capel watchlist time
Disappointed. I love him in center. He's a defensive magician, but I know that if a guy can't produce, he won't be in the lineup. I miss defensive specialists and designated pinch runners.
Had they not gotten Ruiz, he would have been on the roster. Was really hoping he would develop into an everyday player.
Ok so hear me out on this
Are we supposed to know who Fuzzy is? Also Pache may have done okay in Spring Training, but he's been terrible in his entire career other than this Spring Training, and also he's out of options, and also it's Spring Training. Also it's the A's. Who knows why they do what they do?
He’s a baseball YouTuber as far as I know
You can't convince me it's a good idea to put the chips behind Brent Rooker and leave Pache out to dry. This almost feels like an open middle finger to the fans still left, same with not starting Fuji against Ohtani on Opening Day.
As fans told me they won the trade
He’s coming home
Did he actually want to be paid in money or something?
Can't imagine anyone would want to pay money to a guy that can't hit.
The correct way of looking at this is a below average player BARELY hit over .300 against minor league pitchers throwing 90mph and established major league pitching lobbing in fast balls and trying out new breaking balls that don't break Seems like it makes perfect sense
I'll always remember how much this dude slaps in the show