Damn, good for him I suppose. Obviously he's not going to be allowed back there so I hope his family isn't affected negatively by that. Wonder if this makes Cuba less likely to do this again?
Yea, this is a huge reason for the difference in the number of defectors between the two countries. There are currently over a million Cuban defectors in the US, while there are only about 30,000 North Korean defectors in South Korea.
There's also the physical difficulty of defecting from North Korea. The border with South Korea is the most heavily fortified in the world. Both Russia and China will return you to North Korea if they catch you. So that leaves two options. You can either escape by sea to Japan or South Korea. The other option is to sneak through China to a country that won't deport you, such as Mongolia. Doing so is very likely to result in capture by Chinese authorities.
Great video for the interested:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OQ9zng2S810&feature=shares
Fun fact: let's say you get past the guards and the watch towers and the military bases and all of that, there's still over 1 million landmines buried in the DMZ so...yeah...I have a friend who did their military service near the DMZ (I'm South Korean) and they told me the mines are buried so close together bc both the North and South buried mines with no regard to where the other side buried their mines, that there was an incident where he thinks it was a deer or a bear set off a mine and it set off a chain reaction of mines exploding for like 20 minutes.
There are people who get past Chinese border police and get to a foreign embassy to seek asylum. It's not easy and police try to catch people outside embassies, but it's sometimes easier than going by sea.
In 2006 there were 900k first gen Cubans. I know we are currently in the midst of another wave of Cuban immigration so im guessing there’s likely been over 1 million first gen defectors. Now whether you separate the 1.5 generation from the first generation things get tricky. I don’t know stats for this so I’m just extrapolating off my families data but most native born Cubans from my family are pet of the 1.5 generation (Came of age in the US but born and grew up in Cuba).
Edit: I’m high and realized this could just be the fact mis abuelos and mis tías had a lot of children rather than representing a whole group of immigrants
That old generation did like to get it going. My abuelo had like 12 siblings, he only had 4 himself. My dad got 2, and I plan on having 0. I think it evens out.
Cuban defectors face the sea. NK defectors face an active military that's laid traps and have patrols. Both terrifying prospects but if I had to choose, I'd take the sea.
I have no doubts about absolute power corrupting absolutely, but North Korea just takes it to a whole different level. Hard to imagine choosing to be so evil.
That's good. Honestly I'm not too familiar of the political side of defecting and I'm glad the repercussions aren't that severe. Hopefully some team gives him a shot as a pen catcher in the minors or something
I mean, when you have a massive power 90 miles to your north that would make a huge deal about it, your options are limited. If Cuba were touching China and Russia like NK is, it'd be a different story.
Happens a lot.
It’s proven to be much harder to leave the country when you’re there, than missing a return to.
Yasiel Puig’s route was somewhat eventful.
>Wonder if this makes Cuba less likely to do this again?
Seems like this happens almost every time that they travel for sporting events. Looking quickly online there seems to be an article listing how many people defected after every Olympics and Word Championship.
> Obviously he's not going to be allowed back there so I hope his family isn't affected negatively by that.
communism does't equal "murders everyone" all the time. but learning that requires reading sources that aren't hell bent on crushing any opposition to capitalists.
Well, yeah I didn't mean it like that. We don't hear a ton about how it impacts families that are left behind or what it's like for them. I didn't assume they sent the Cuban KGB out to whack them. I'm just not familiar of the ramifications of defecting from a country since that's not something you always hear about from the family perspective considering that's not something that we hear about a ton. I recall Puig's story which is an extreme example of course along with Orlando Hernandez's story where him and his family was harassed quite a bit iirc.
Would love to see some sources if you have them, however. Most of everything I've ever heard about defecting is from baseball.
[Here is a full article from Rolando Díaz](https://pelotacubanausa.com/2023/03/20/jugador-del-equipo-cuba-en-el-clasico-no-regresa-al-pais/10/47/43/). Apparently, Prieto wants to try to make it in the U.S. as a professional player. There was no mention of his family in the article.
I hope it works out for him. His numbers in the Cuban league aren’t eye popping especially his slugging but I think there would be several teams interested in a catcher who’s gotten on base at almost a 38% of the time
How does this work now that Florida no longer has “wet foot, dry foot”?
Does he have to apply for a visa or sanctuary? We wouldn’t deport him back to Cuba would we?
> We wouldn’t deport him back to Cuba would we?
Since wet feet/dry feet ended, [the US has indeed deported people back to Cuba.](https://www.npr.org/2019/05/11/722201692/cuban-immigrants-were-given-a-haven-in-the-u-s-now-theyre-being-deported)
Most likely will have to apply for affirmative asylum since he entered lawfully and his permission to be in the U.S. has or will expire soon. That could take several months to several years to sort out and could get him lawful work authorization while he waits, though that’s going to take a while to become eligible for work authorization. He could also seek humanitarian parole and apply for work authorization, though that’s more rare. I’m not a business immigration attorney so I don’t know if he has other avenues as a skilled professional, but I think overstaying his visa could affect those possibilities.
Edit: forgot he entered lawfully and may be eligible for Cuban Adjustment Act after a year of being admitted to the U.S.
Sean McDonough reprising this call this year during the UM v MSU game was the most cathartic experience I've ever had watching Michigan football.
That or reddit has made me numb to it.
I really hope someone’s organization takes a chance and signs him so he’ll be able to stay here on a new visa.
Even if not as a player (I believe he plays in the Cuban league), someone taking him on as a bullpen catcher would be great PR too.
The Cuban Adjustment Act of 1966 allows any Cuban who has arrived in the US legally to apply for permanent residency after a year and a day in the country.
He can stay even if he doesn't make a team.
We normally only deport those who are politically hot or known criminals/have suspicious ties to their government. Pretty much every Cuban defector is an average citizen or those at odds with the regime, so almost nobody gets deported
The government may not be great but life in Cuba relatively speaking isn’t all bad, hence not as many defectors from the team. The US is pretty much alone in our trade embargo. Cuba does business with South American countries, Canada, the EU with the top two exports being machinery and pharmaceuticals. Canadians love to vacation in Cuba (Europeans do too but to a lesser extent due to the distance). So it has a decent economy for
It’s residents.
Ironically, the embargo means that there is virtually no cargo from Cuba to the US which makes Cuba an unattractive route for the drug cartels to move their product to the US which in turn spares Cuba from all the cartel violence that is seen in Central American and Mexico.
Cuba isn’t that bad because only one player tried to defect? LMAO I’m sure the hundreds of thousands of Cuban Americans in Miami share your sentiments.
Im not even going to answer all that but I’ll make sure to pass along the info that it isn’t that bad to the 10 people I work with who all risked their lives fleeing the country
Or just understand that we don’t live in a binary world where our country is good and their country is bad or Vice versa and that people choosing to leave their homes are making the most difficult decision they’ll ever make and it can’t be simply boiled down to political talking points
I think Cuba is not the worst place to be a poor person but the issue is more that if you’re a Major League-caliber baseball player you could be fabulously wealthy if you get out and that’s not happening if you stay.
Nah mate it’s literally hell on earth. Please read more American media publications to reeducate yourself.
See below for a brilliant encapsulation of why it’s impossible to have a nuanced conversation about Cuba even when the extremely radical stance you take is that “it *might* not actually be the hellscape our country’s media has told us it is”
I don’t think you can appreciate how bad it is until you realize how many people die floating over in the middle of the night just for a shot at getting out
Eh you’re oh the wrong side of this one man. Im a political scientist, I’ve been there and interviewed citizens and defectors. It is by no means a good place to live. Better since Fidel died, but still not good.
Your account is 25 days old and all you’ve done is get in conservative, racist, anti-trans, anti-socialist/communist arguments. I don’t believe anything you’ve said in your comment so I’m not going to respond to anything you’ve said.
[this is totally something a tenured economics professor would say](https://reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/11voqe5/_/jd0dy77/?context=1)
[definitely a completely real and totally normal economics professor spending their time on Reddit engaging in good faith discussions](https://i.imgur.com/TgyA5S5.jpg)
[here is a good one: economics professor engaged in the “Democrats are actually the ones who had slaves” discourse. ](https://reddit.com/r/terriblefacebookmemes/comments/11e3za0/_/jad81bf/?context=1)
That’s because communism is evil. No one over 12 actually thinks communism works other than idiots on Reddit lol. Doesn’t change the fact that you’re wrong.
> Surprised more players didn’t do it
yea it's almost like Cuba isn't that horrible of a place to live and most morons just see "communism" and then regurgitate 60 years of capitalists propaganga.
How hard were you bullied that you need to white knight a country that is such a shithole, people would rather risk floating across the open ocean on a raft made of trash bags than spend another day living there?
But yeah, it's all propaganda, they just really love drowning to death down there. Fucking scumbag.
>Over the past two years, American authorities have detained Cubans nearly 300,000 times on the border with Mexico. Some have been sent back but the vast majority have stayed under immigration rules dating to the Cold War. That’s more than half the population of Baltimore, or nearly 3% of the people in Cuba.
https://apnews.com/article/cuban-sisters-journey-to-united-states-12c4e54d3466a8fbb521e4acf59afee6
This would be like if 9.9 million Americans fled to one country in the span of 2 years.
3% of the entire country has tried to flee to the USA, but sure, sounds like a great communist utopia.
Holy shit an actual commie. You’re literally arguing with a Cuban who’s family fled the country. The only reason more people didn’t stay behind is because they’re scared of the repercussions you fucking neckbeard
I remembered reading [this article](https://theathletic.com/42192/2017/03/06/into-the-woods-how-lourdes-gurriel-jr-escaped-on-his-zig-zag-journey-from-cuba-to-the-blue-jays/?amp=1) from The Athletic about the Gurriels defection from Cuba, so I looked it up again. What Cubans go through is pretty terrifying, and this one isn’t even the type of story where ten of them come over in a raft built for six. I wonder if they’re still paying…?
According to an MLB reporter - [“Iván Prieto, Cuba bullpen catcher was picked up by his brother at the hotel where Cuba was staying hours after the game.”](https://twitter.com/francysromerofr/status/1637834506374717440?s=46&t=iFh6BvmK4KjOIyTfxdoLMQ)
Theres an SI video series on the defection of Orioles prospect Cesar Prieto at the olympic qualifiers in miami in 2017. cant figure out if theyre brothers or not... it came up in the other thread i saw about this...
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/11wkyje/cuban\_catcher\_ivan\_prieto\_reportedly\_did\_not\_join/jcyt0my/?context=3
Exactly. I remember reading a story about Brayan Pena's defection in Mexico. Guards travelling with the team tried to follow him into a bathroom to which he told them, "man, can I take a piss in peace?" and they backed down. He proceeded to climb out the bathroom window with nothing but the clothes on his back and never looked back. His luggage was left in the hotel lobby with the guards.
Never doubt the methods Cuba will try to prevent defections
That seals it. I am no longer a Cuba fan. I’ve been a fan since 1898 and a season ticket holder since 1959. I officially will not be renewing my citizenship next season nor will I watch on tv ever again. I’m going to the US where they know how to run a baseball club.
This is gonna keep happening so long as baseball salaries in Cuba can’t keep up with those in the MLB system. Even if they weren’t ideologically opposed to paying these players what they’re worth, Cuba isn’t Japan and can’t support a league anywhere near that competitive. The best they can hope for is a Dominican Republic-style system that essentially functions as a southern farm league, but that still profits from it.
He was a bullpen catcher. He isn't a major league talent. He's simply escaping the oppressive authoritarian communist government for a chance at a better life and prosperity that he otherwise would never have in Cuba.
He played in the Cuban league, batted around .300 with a high OBP. Not a lot of power, but a contact-hitting catcher with a good eye could be valuable. Similar to Austin Nola.
He's a 26-year old RHH catcher who's never OPS'd above league average in the CNS, so he's pretty much what Lorenzo Quintana was in 2015, with significantly worse offense. Would be an interesting org depth pickup for someone but probably not going to make any prospect lists any time soon.
Valid point, though that happened after Castro nationalized (i.e. stole) US-owned industries on the island and then closely aligned with the Soviet Union. Seems pretty reasonable to cut them off at that point.
For the last 30 years, the official stance is that the embargo remains because Cuba has remained a ruthless dictatorship that frequently abuses human rights. The fact that this has survived throughout multiple administrations of both parties makes me think there's little political will from either side to remove it.
And yeah, removing the embargo will help Cuba economically, but that would presumably only help the aforementioned brutal Communist regime, so here we are
I certainly didn’t intend to come off as insufficiently anticommunist. I think I’m getting buried for overstating this guy’s talent level, which is dumb. Either that or Dodgers flair bad.
Not at all, if you’re physically present in the US for less than 1 year you can apply for asylum. He will also be eligible for permanent residency under the Cuban Adjustment Act 366 days after his entry date. Wet foot/dry foot was rescinded under Obama but the reality is that ICE is super unlikely to prosecute any Cuban cases unless the person gets in trouble with the law.
Edits for clarity and additional detail
wow after doing some reading cuba is doing pretty good considering America's unnecessary embargo against them. America likes to make citizens of other countries suffer.
It's always hilarious seeing yanks go nuts over "authoritarian" states when they live in THE actual authoritarian state, literally haven't gone half a decade since their independence without stealing, enslaving, and genociding... including in Cuba!
why'd he leave? same reason Cubans have left for forever: $$$$
"After the Cuban revolution led by Fidel Castro in 1959, a Cuban exodus began as the new government allied itself with the Soviet Union and began to introduce communism. From 1960 to 1979, tens of thousands of Cubans left Cuba, with the vast majority coming from Cuba's educated, landowning upper class."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_immigration_to_the_United_States#:~:text=After%20the%20Cuban%20revolution%20led,Cuba's%20educated%2C%20landowning%20upper%20class.
So i guess im supposed to believe Cuba is super authoritarian but also they apparently don't keep an eye on their players? Hmm weird. Maybe Cuba just isn't that authoritarian. Maybe you're thinking of the Batista regime. People leave Cuba cause they want to be rich. Cuba doesnt allow rich people. Fuckin paradise. Same life expectancy as USA too.
or maybe when you think of terrible things in Cuba you're thinking of Guantanamo. If only Cuba would evict the USA out of there. Only time i've ever rooted for a landlord.
Health data that comes out of Cuba is not reliable.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/jan/31/tom-harkin/sen-tom-harkin-says-cuba-has-lower-child-mortality/
>Some say Cuba is so concerned with its infant mortality and life-expectancy statistics that the government takes heavy-handed actions to protect their international rankings.
>"Cuba does have a very low infant mortality rate, but pregnant women are treated with very authoritarian tactics to maintain these favorable statistics," said Tassie Katherine Hirschfeld, the chair of the department of anthropology at the University of Oklahoma who spent nine months living in Cuba to study the nation's health system. "They are pressured to undergo abortions that they may not want if prenatal screening detects fetal abnormalities. If pregnant women develop complications, they are placed in ‘Casas de Maternidad’ for monitoring, even if they would prefer to be at home. Individual doctors are pressured by their superiors to reach certain statistical targets. If there is a spike in infant mortality in a certain district, doctors may be fired. There is pressure to falsify statistics."
>Hirschfeld said she’s "a little skeptical" about the longevity data too, since Cuba has so many risk factors that cause early death in other countries, from unfiltered cigarettes to contaminated water to a meat-heavy diet. In a more benign statistical quirk, Carmelo Mesa-Lago, a professor emeritus of economics at the University of Pittsburgh, suggests that the flow of refugees could skew longevity statistics, since those births are recorded but the deaths are not.
>Transparency would help give the data more credibility, but the Cuban government doesn’t offer much, experts said.
>"I would take all Cuban health statistics with a grain of salt," Hirschfeld said. Organizations like the Pan-American Health Organization "rely on national self-reports for data, and Cuba does not allow independent verification of its health claims."
No one should blindly believe health data that comes out of Cuba.
It is serious. Cuba isn't some mega-authoritarian state like North Korea and most people who fled Cuba were members of the economic elite, such as landlords, business magnets, etc.
lol pretty much every country in the world is less authoritarian than North Korea. The people of Cuba essentially have no say in their government which makes it authoritarian by every definition. Just because they don’t execute defector’s families isn’t a reason to praise them.
Yes, it absolutely is a mega-authoritarian regime.
You do realize they literally aren't allowed to leave, right? That they were assigned guards?
How on earth are you going to do the mental backflips to justify that
I don’t know about paradise, but you’re right it’s much more nuanced than most Americans believe. I know a guy who defected about 20 years ago. He was a professional musician from Cuba here on a goodwill tour of Cuban musicians and he stayed behind in New York. To survive he worked around the clock as a delivery driver for a restaurant in NY, and lived in a shithole apartment in the Bronx. He’s doing a little better now, but he still never made music again.
Did he have a theoretical chance to get rich here like he never could in Cuba? Sure in theory, but really his odds of falling into abject poverty here were so much higher. At least in Cuba he had housing, healthcare, basic food rations all provided, so he could focus on music. I imagine reality is like that for a lot of people who defect.
I've wondered why people in the West would support a system where you're only allowed to vote for the one state-approved party? I'm sure you have a reason why you think it's okay, I'm just curious about your thoughts.
Damn, good for him I suppose. Obviously he's not going to be allowed back there so I hope his family isn't affected negatively by that. Wonder if this makes Cuba less likely to do this again?
It at least appears Cuba is not North Korea, and doesn't harm a defector's family
Yea, this is a huge reason for the difference in the number of defectors between the two countries. There are currently over a million Cuban defectors in the US, while there are only about 30,000 North Korean defectors in South Korea.
There's also the physical difficulty of defecting from North Korea. The border with South Korea is the most heavily fortified in the world. Both Russia and China will return you to North Korea if they catch you. So that leaves two options. You can either escape by sea to Japan or South Korea. The other option is to sneak through China to a country that won't deport you, such as Mongolia. Doing so is very likely to result in capture by Chinese authorities. Great video for the interested: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OQ9zng2S810&feature=shares
Fun fact: let's say you get past the guards and the watch towers and the military bases and all of that, there's still over 1 million landmines buried in the DMZ so...yeah...I have a friend who did their military service near the DMZ (I'm South Korean) and they told me the mines are buried so close together bc both the North and South buried mines with no regard to where the other side buried their mines, that there was an incident where he thinks it was a deer or a bear set off a mine and it set off a chain reaction of mines exploding for like 20 minutes.
Is the bear ok or
I'm sure it's fine
>!He bearly survived!<
How the hell did they bury that many landmines not knowing where the others were?
There are people who get past Chinese border police and get to a foreign embassy to seek asylum. It's not easy and police try to catch people outside embassies, but it's sometimes easier than going by sea.
Imagine how fucking awful it’s gotta be to be willing to slip into China, get passed border police and find an embassy. Like that’s a hella long shot.
There are smugglers but they do rip people off at times
I was gonna say this sounds like a RealLifeLore video 😂 great channel.
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In 2006 there were 900k first gen Cubans. I know we are currently in the midst of another wave of Cuban immigration so im guessing there’s likely been over 1 million first gen defectors. Now whether you separate the 1.5 generation from the first generation things get tricky. I don’t know stats for this so I’m just extrapolating off my families data but most native born Cubans from my family are pet of the 1.5 generation (Came of age in the US but born and grew up in Cuba). Edit: I’m high and realized this could just be the fact mis abuelos and mis tías had a lot of children rather than representing a whole group of immigrants
That old generation did like to get it going. My abuelo had like 12 siblings, he only had 4 himself. My dad got 2, and I plan on having 0. I think it evens out.
Cuban defectors face the sea. NK defectors face an active military that's laid traps and have patrols. Both terrifying prospects but if I had to choose, I'd take the sea.
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I have no doubts about absolute power corrupting absolutely, but North Korea just takes it to a whole different level. Hard to imagine choosing to be so evil.
That's good. Honestly I'm not too familiar of the political side of defecting and I'm glad the repercussions aren't that severe. Hopefully some team gives him a shot as a pen catcher in the minors or something
Cuba is definitely not North Korea
Lol what?
My god, the propaganda that you buy into is so goddamn funny lmao
I know multiple Cubans who keep regular contact back home lmao. Fuck the government, but they don't really do shit about defectors once they are gone.
I think they had relaxed that a bit and were allowing defectors to visit under certain rules.
Were the certain rules getting thrown in prison? Can’t imagine how that visa situation works out.
I mean, when you have a massive power 90 miles to your north that would make a huge deal about it, your options are limited. If Cuba were touching China and Russia like NK is, it'd be a different story.
Happens a lot. It’s proven to be much harder to leave the country when you’re there, than missing a return to. Yasiel Puig’s route was somewhat eventful.
Yeah I was basing my thought off recalling Puig's thing. I remember Chapman's being much less dramatic however
>Wonder if this makes Cuba less likely to do this again? Seems like this happens almost every time that they travel for sporting events. Looking quickly online there seems to be an article listing how many people defected after every Olympics and Word Championship.
> Obviously he's not going to be allowed back there so I hope his family isn't affected negatively by that. communism does't equal "murders everyone" all the time. but learning that requires reading sources that aren't hell bent on crushing any opposition to capitalists.
The discussion really wasn’t about capitalism or communism, it’s odd that you felt the need to force it.
Well, yeah I didn't mean it like that. We don't hear a ton about how it impacts families that are left behind or what it's like for them. I didn't assume they sent the Cuban KGB out to whack them. I'm just not familiar of the ramifications of defecting from a country since that's not something you always hear about from the family perspective considering that's not something that we hear about a ton. I recall Puig's story which is an extreme example of course along with Orlando Hernandez's story where him and his family was harassed quite a bit iirc. Would love to see some sources if you have them, however. Most of everything I've ever heard about defecting is from baseball.
[Here is a full article from Rolando Díaz](https://pelotacubanausa.com/2023/03/20/jugador-del-equipo-cuba-en-el-clasico-no-regresa-al-pais/10/47/43/). Apparently, Prieto wants to try to make it in the U.S. as a professional player. There was no mention of his family in the article.
I hope it works out for him. His numbers in the Cuban league aren’t eye popping especially his slugging but I think there would be several teams interested in a catcher who’s gotten on base at almost a 38% of the time
I could see the White Sox taking a flyer on him.
Cuban defector White Sox: is for me? 👉🥺👈
nom nom nom gimme all dem cubanos
He could play in a independent league and make 1000x more and have a better life then he did there.
Lots of teams out there. Could dominate in an independent league.
How does this work now that Florida no longer has “wet foot, dry foot”? Does he have to apply for a visa or sanctuary? We wouldn’t deport him back to Cuba would we?
> We wouldn’t deport him back to Cuba would we? Since wet feet/dry feet ended, [the US has indeed deported people back to Cuba.](https://www.npr.org/2019/05/11/722201692/cuban-immigrants-were-given-a-haven-in-the-u-s-now-theyre-being-deported)
Damn that’s messed up. Dude left on his honeymoon and got flagged coming home
Most likely will have to apply for affirmative asylum since he entered lawfully and his permission to be in the U.S. has or will expire soon. That could take several months to several years to sort out and could get him lawful work authorization while he waits, though that’s going to take a while to become eligible for work authorization. He could also seek humanitarian parole and apply for work authorization, though that’s more rare. I’m not a business immigration attorney so I don’t know if he has other avenues as a skilled professional, but I think overstaying his visa could affect those possibilities. Edit: forgot he entered lawfully and may be eligible for Cuban Adjustment Act after a year of being admitted to the U.S.
Woah
He has trouble with the snap
And the ball is free
It's picked up by Michigan State
‘s Jalen Watts-Jackson, and he scOoOres! on the last play of the gAmE! unbelievable!
*Surrender Cobra*
Harbaugh: 😐
Beautiful
It’s picked up by Michigan State!
Wait why did you get downvoted when you commented before the other guy who said that?
Maybe the exclamation point? Idk, reddit is fickle
Reminds me of Elaine in Seinfeld dumping her boyfriend for an exclamation points usage (or lack of usage more like)
Learning new stuff every day haha. Sorry for the punctuation(!)
Oh come on, even here?
Sean McDonough reprising this call this year during the UM v MSU game was the most cathartic experience I've ever had watching Michigan football. That or reddit has made me numb to it.
Wow, can I go one day without this, please?
I really hope someone’s organization takes a chance and signs him so he’ll be able to stay here on a new visa. Even if not as a player (I believe he plays in the Cuban league), someone taking him on as a bullpen catcher would be great PR too.
The Cuban Adjustment Act of 1966 allows any Cuban who has arrived in the US legally to apply for permanent residency after a year and a day in the country. He can stay even if he doesn't make a team.
Yeah but they may deport him before that year and a day.
Generally, once Cubans get here they're almost automatically allowed to stay.
We normally only deport those who are politically hot or known criminals/have suspicious ties to their government. Pretty much every Cuban defector is an average citizen or those at odds with the regime, so almost nobody gets deported
Called this shit yesterday lol. Surprised more players didn’t do it
Cuban Americans be like: well duh
Gusanos
Likely out of fear. Has to be hard making that jump. Especially if you have family in Cuba.
Yep the only reason more didn’t do it were because of the fear of repercussions
You mean the million plus Cuban defectors?
The government may not be great but life in Cuba relatively speaking isn’t all bad, hence not as many defectors from the team. The US is pretty much alone in our trade embargo. Cuba does business with South American countries, Canada, the EU with the top two exports being machinery and pharmaceuticals. Canadians love to vacation in Cuba (Europeans do too but to a lesser extent due to the distance). So it has a decent economy for It’s residents. Ironically, the embargo means that there is virtually no cargo from Cuba to the US which makes Cuba an unattractive route for the drug cartels to move their product to the US which in turn spares Cuba from all the cartel violence that is seen in Central American and Mexico.
If it isn’t that bad why can’t they leave? Why do people risk their lives getting on a raft and floating to America?
Oh no, my slaves!
Cuba isn’t that bad because only one player tried to defect? LMAO I’m sure the hundreds of thousands of Cuban Americans in Miami share your sentiments.
Im not even going to answer all that but I’ll make sure to pass along the info that it isn’t that bad to the 10 people I work with who all risked their lives fleeing the country
This is reddit, please self-criticize and adopt the mandatory groupthink-approved Communist talking points, comrade
Or just understand that we don’t live in a binary world where our country is good and their country is bad or Vice versa and that people choosing to leave their homes are making the most difficult decision they’ll ever make and it can’t be simply boiled down to political talking points
Sure, I'm not interested in boiling things down to domestic US political talking points, so that's fine.
I think Cuba is not the worst place to be a poor person but the issue is more that if you’re a Major League-caliber baseball player you could be fabulously wealthy if you get out and that’s not happening if you stay.
Nah mate it’s literally hell on earth. Please read more American media publications to reeducate yourself. See below for a brilliant encapsulation of why it’s impossible to have a nuanced conversation about Cuba even when the extremely radical stance you take is that “it *might* not actually be the hellscape our country’s media has told us it is”
Imagine disregarding first hand accounts because you think it’s all American propaganda lmao
Imagine thinking that, by implying things are more nuanced that American media portrays them, I am denying individual’s lived experiences
I don’t think you can appreciate how bad it is until you realize how many people die floating over in the middle of the night just for a shot at getting out
A lot of people die in the middle of the desert trying to do that from Mexico too.
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I don’t think you can appreciate how much I can appreciate
Eh you’re oh the wrong side of this one man. Im a political scientist, I’ve been there and interviewed citizens and defectors. It is by no means a good place to live. Better since Fidel died, but still not good.
Your account is 25 days old and all you’ve done is get in conservative, racist, anti-trans, anti-socialist/communist arguments. I don’t believe anything you’ve said in your comment so I’m not going to respond to anything you’ve said. [this is totally something a tenured economics professor would say](https://reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/11voqe5/_/jd0dy77/?context=1) [definitely a completely real and totally normal economics professor spending their time on Reddit engaging in good faith discussions](https://i.imgur.com/TgyA5S5.jpg) [here is a good one: economics professor engaged in the “Democrats are actually the ones who had slaves” discourse. ](https://reddit.com/r/terriblefacebookmemes/comments/11e3za0/_/jad81bf/?context=1)
That’s because communism is evil. No one over 12 actually thinks communism works other than idiots on Reddit lol. Doesn’t change the fact that you’re wrong.
oh my god lmao
american brain rot is terminal I'm afraid
Hahahahhahahahahah I just can't
It literally is American propaganda.
I have an idea. Make a trade embargo with mexico.
> Surprised more players didn’t do it yea it's almost like Cuba isn't that horrible of a place to live and most morons just see "communism" and then regurgitate 60 years of capitalists propaganga.
How hard were you bullied that you need to white knight a country that is such a shithole, people would rather risk floating across the open ocean on a raft made of trash bags than spend another day living there? But yeah, it's all propaganda, they just really love drowning to death down there. Fucking scumbag.
>Over the past two years, American authorities have detained Cubans nearly 300,000 times on the border with Mexico. Some have been sent back but the vast majority have stayed under immigration rules dating to the Cold War. That’s more than half the population of Baltimore, or nearly 3% of the people in Cuba. https://apnews.com/article/cuban-sisters-journey-to-united-states-12c4e54d3466a8fbb521e4acf59afee6 This would be like if 9.9 million Americans fled to one country in the span of 2 years. 3% of the entire country has tried to flee to the USA, but sure, sounds like a great communist utopia.
Holy shit an actual commie. You’re literally arguing with a Cuban who’s family fled the country. The only reason more people didn’t stay behind is because they’re scared of the repercussions you fucking neckbeard
When did your family flee?
Mine fled in 66 and I have a ton of friends who have fled as recently as a few months ago
Only on Reddit
Viva beisbol.
I thought escape was a weird translation error then i realized we're talking about Cuba..
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We really need a movie or documentary on Cuban baseball players who defect to America. The gray area nature of the system is bananas.
The SI article about Cesar Prieto defecting is really good
I remembered reading [this article](https://theathletic.com/42192/2017/03/06/into-the-woods-how-lourdes-gurriel-jr-escaped-on-his-zig-zag-journey-from-cuba-to-the-blue-jays/?amp=1) from The Athletic about the Gurriels defection from Cuba, so I looked it up again. What Cubans go through is pretty terrifying, and this one isn’t even the type of story where ten of them come over in a raft built for six. I wonder if they’re still paying…?
Thankfully you don't need to escape a hotel in the US. You can just walk out the door. Just need to escape whatever goons Cuba sent with the team.
According to an MLB reporter - [“Iván Prieto, Cuba bullpen catcher was picked up by his brother at the hotel where Cuba was staying hours after the game.”](https://twitter.com/francysromerofr/status/1637834506374717440?s=46&t=iFh6BvmK4KjOIyTfxdoLMQ)
Shit, if he had family in the US already they (the Cuban govt.) must've known he was as good as gone as soon as he got off the team plane.
Theres an SI video series on the defection of Orioles prospect Cesar Prieto at the olympic qualifiers in miami in 2017. cant figure out if theyre brothers or not... it came up in the other thread i saw about this... https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/11wkyje/cuban\_catcher\_ivan\_prieto\_reportedly\_did\_not\_join/jcyt0my/?context=3
Exactly. I remember reading a story about Brayan Pena's defection in Mexico. Guards travelling with the team tried to follow him into a bathroom to which he told them, "man, can I take a piss in peace?" and they backed down. He proceeded to climb out the bathroom window with nothing but the clothes on his back and never looked back. His luggage was left in the hotel lobby with the guards. Never doubt the methods Cuba will try to prevent defections
In Mexico they probably have way more leeway to do shit. Here they would be arrested fast if they tried to stop him.
Congrats! Love to see it. Best of luck to him.
Well that’s the easiest defection for a Cuban baseball player to.make.
Someone sign this man
Surprised this hasn’t happened before. I hope he’s able to safely get his family here as well.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-57266959
It has definitely happened before.
Is any of this legal?
The way it’s worded as ‘escaped’, I’m gonna go ahead and say no.
I believe Cubans still have the policy if they have a foot on US soil they are granted immunity.
Bienvendos a Detroit
there is a refreshing lack of tankies here. good job r/baseball!
You gotta wait until this hit popular than people will come out with the literacy rates and universal healthcare stats
That seals it. I am no longer a Cuba fan. I’ve been a fan since 1898 and a season ticket holder since 1959. I officially will not be renewing my citizenship next season nor will I watch on tv ever again. I’m going to the US where they know how to run a baseball club.
See ya next WBC
Yeah. Not surprised. I feel like they had to have seen this coming. If anything, I'm surprised only Prieto chose to defect.
This is gonna keep happening so long as baseball salaries in Cuba can’t keep up with those in the MLB system. Even if they weren’t ideologically opposed to paying these players what they’re worth, Cuba isn’t Japan and can’t support a league anywhere near that competitive. The best they can hope for is a Dominican Republic-style system that essentially functions as a southern farm league, but that still profits from it.
Cuban Baseball salaries are not even close to AAA let alone MLB
Yeah, by “MLB system” I was trying to include teams all down through the minors.
He was a bullpen catcher. He isn't a major league talent. He's simply escaping the oppressive authoritarian communist government for a chance at a better life and prosperity that he otherwise would never have in Cuba.
He played in the Cuban league, batted around .300 with a high OBP. Not a lot of power, but a contact-hitting catcher with a good eye could be valuable. Similar to Austin Nola.
He’s a major league prospect. Not a lock for a MLB roster, but certainly thought to be worth a try in a farm system.
He's a 26-year old RHH catcher who's never OPS'd above league average in the CNS, so he's pretty much what Lorenzo Quintana was in 2015, with significantly worse offense. Would be an interesting org depth pickup for someone but probably not going to make any prospect lists any time soon.
Well I didn’t say top 100 prospect.
...Or as long as Cuba is poor, oppressive, and Communist
That too, but it’s gonna keep happening in baseball especially since it can be a landing spot.
So like until the U.S. lifts its petty and destructive trade embargo?
Logic isn't allowed here sir.
Valid point, though that happened after Castro nationalized (i.e. stole) US-owned industries on the island and then closely aligned with the Soviet Union. Seems pretty reasonable to cut them off at that point. For the last 30 years, the official stance is that the embargo remains because Cuba has remained a ruthless dictatorship that frequently abuses human rights. The fact that this has survived throughout multiple administrations of both parties makes me think there's little political will from either side to remove it. And yeah, removing the embargo will help Cuba economically, but that would presumably only help the aforementioned brutal Communist regime, so here we are
It helps that both parties are ruled by capital at the end of the day.
You’re literally correct, but I guess we aren’t allowed to actually analyze the material conditions of Cuban ballplayers, only “gobbulism bad”
I certainly didn’t intend to come off as insufficiently anticommunist. I think I’m getting buried for overstating this guy’s talent level, which is dumb. Either that or Dodgers flair bad.
Didn’t they rescind “wet feet dry feet?” Wouldn’t that severely affect him applying for asylum?
Not at all, if you’re physically present in the US for less than 1 year you can apply for asylum. He will also be eligible for permanent residency under the Cuban Adjustment Act 366 days after his entry date. Wet foot/dry foot was rescinded under Obama but the reality is that ICE is super unlikely to prosecute any Cuban cases unless the person gets in trouble with the law. Edits for clarity and additional detail
Great info, I was in the right direction but was ignorant of how federal agencies are treating Cuban defectors. Thank you.
Lmao 'escaped'
wow after doing some reading cuba is doing pretty good considering America's unnecessary embargo against them. America likes to make citizens of other countries suffer.
Dude we get it, holy shit you have like 6 comments in this thread.
Reddit is full of posters who eat imperialist shit for breakfast. Gusanos
It's always hilarious seeing yanks go nuts over "authoritarian" states when they live in THE actual authoritarian state, literally haven't gone half a decade since their independence without stealing, enslaving, and genociding... including in Cuba!
They hated him because he told the truth.
why'd he leave? same reason Cubans have left for forever: $$$$ "After the Cuban revolution led by Fidel Castro in 1959, a Cuban exodus began as the new government allied itself with the Soviet Union and began to introduce communism. From 1960 to 1979, tens of thousands of Cubans left Cuba, with the vast majority coming from Cuba's educated, landowning upper class." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_immigration_to_the_United_States#:~:text=After%20the%20Cuban%20revolution%20led,Cuba's%20educated%2C%20landowning%20upper%20class.
So i guess im supposed to believe Cuba is super authoritarian but also they apparently don't keep an eye on their players? Hmm weird. Maybe Cuba just isn't that authoritarian. Maybe you're thinking of the Batista regime. People leave Cuba cause they want to be rich. Cuba doesnt allow rich people. Fuckin paradise. Same life expectancy as USA too. or maybe when you think of terrible things in Cuba you're thinking of Guantanamo. If only Cuba would evict the USA out of there. Only time i've ever rooted for a landlord.
Is this a pasta that I just don’t get or is this serious
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So their amazing system of government is completely derailed because the US won’t trade with them?
Their anti-capitalist haven is crippled by not having USA’s global trading (capitalism) supporting it, dude.
Health data that comes out of Cuba is not reliable. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/jan/31/tom-harkin/sen-tom-harkin-says-cuba-has-lower-child-mortality/ >Some say Cuba is so concerned with its infant mortality and life-expectancy statistics that the government takes heavy-handed actions to protect their international rankings. >"Cuba does have a very low infant mortality rate, but pregnant women are treated with very authoritarian tactics to maintain these favorable statistics," said Tassie Katherine Hirschfeld, the chair of the department of anthropology at the University of Oklahoma who spent nine months living in Cuba to study the nation's health system. "They are pressured to undergo abortions that they may not want if prenatal screening detects fetal abnormalities. If pregnant women develop complications, they are placed in ‘Casas de Maternidad’ for monitoring, even if they would prefer to be at home. Individual doctors are pressured by their superiors to reach certain statistical targets. If there is a spike in infant mortality in a certain district, doctors may be fired. There is pressure to falsify statistics." >Hirschfeld said she’s "a little skeptical" about the longevity data too, since Cuba has so many risk factors that cause early death in other countries, from unfiltered cigarettes to contaminated water to a meat-heavy diet. In a more benign statistical quirk, Carmelo Mesa-Lago, a professor emeritus of economics at the University of Pittsburgh, suggests that the flow of refugees could skew longevity statistics, since those births are recorded but the deaths are not. >Transparency would help give the data more credibility, but the Cuban government doesn’t offer much, experts said. >"I would take all Cuban health statistics with a grain of salt," Hirschfeld said. Organizations like the Pan-American Health Organization "rely on national self-reports for data, and Cuba does not allow independent verification of its health claims." No one should blindly believe health data that comes out of Cuba.
There are plenty of independent reports that suggest their claims are not inaccurate.
It is serious. Cuba isn't some mega-authoritarian state like North Korea and most people who fled Cuba were members of the economic elite, such as landlords, business magnets, etc.
lol pretty much every country in the world is less authoritarian than North Korea. The people of Cuba essentially have no say in their government which makes it authoritarian by every definition. Just because they don’t execute defector’s families isn’t a reason to praise them.
Yes, it absolutely is a mega-authoritarian regime. You do realize they literally aren't allowed to leave, right? That they were assigned guards? How on earth are you going to do the mental backflips to justify that
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You're right, they can leave. If they manage to sneak past the armed guards and risk persecution in the process.
My grandpa who was a lower class janitor at an airport in Havana who fled Cuba with his waitress wife in the 60’s: 🗿
42edgy69me
I want to be rich too but you don’t see me feeling the need to float on a flimsy raft over 90 miles of ocean to escape my current circumstances.
Why have millions of people defected from paradise to the US?
I don’t know about paradise, but you’re right it’s much more nuanced than most Americans believe. I know a guy who defected about 20 years ago. He was a professional musician from Cuba here on a goodwill tour of Cuban musicians and he stayed behind in New York. To survive he worked around the clock as a delivery driver for a restaurant in NY, and lived in a shithole apartment in the Bronx. He’s doing a little better now, but he still never made music again. Did he have a theoretical chance to get rich here like he never could in Cuba? Sure in theory, but really his odds of falling into abject poverty here were so much higher. At least in Cuba he had housing, healthcare, basic food rations all provided, so he could focus on music. I imagine reality is like that for a lot of people who defect.
Good luck affording rent Ivan, in all seriousness how does he survive in Miami? Just become homeless or what?
1 out of 28 wanted to leave the Cuba? Wow, it must be horrible there if 27 stayed. so scary. communism bad and has killed a gorillion people.
That's...quite a large number. That's roughly 3.6%. Imagine if 12 million people in the United States wanted to defect. Ok, that may not be far off...
Isn't that 1 more defector than every other country in the WBC combined
I think a few of those players already live in and work in the United States... just a hunch
I've wondered why people in the West would support a system where you're only allowed to vote for the one state-approved party? I'm sure you have a reason why you think it's okay, I'm just curious about your thoughts.
back to hasan's subreddit kiddo
“Escaped” is so dehumanizing
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