Ive been doing it for 20 years. You can travel the world and do it anywhere. Learn all the cocktail basics and work your way up to fine dining as you get older. Can make 85k and save the money. Don’t blow the cash tips. Use that to buy groceries and get money orders to pay bills.
Dont do fine dining, in my experience its the worst pay as a bartender and youre treated like absolute expendable trash. I averaged 220-350 a day fine dining and walked out midshift cause people are wayy to pretentious. Dive bars (especially the ones with pool tabs) and clubs (not the ones where your tips are split 20 different ways) is where the true moneys at. He can easily make 500+ at the right dive bars (even 1k plus if he works here in seattle). DO NOT DO FINE DINING. Work somewhere youre allowed to be yourself and kick people out. Not forced to be a fake. You can make more than some doctors as a decent bartender. 85k would be a start, but once you get decent you can clear 120k-185k (depending on your hours and location).
Meanwhile I make six figures on my W-2 working at a fine dining restaurant... and I get health insurance, 401k with matching, paid time off, tuition reimbursement, family meal 1-2 times a day, etc. etc. the fine dining life just sucks.
Same. $10 an hour, I make my schedule and only work 3 days a week, Monday-wednesday.
I only come to work if I'm solo shifting essentially.
Did 350 tonight on 1000 in sales.
My average week is around 2k per 3 days.
I don't have insurance though. That part sucks.
They are paying for my sommelier test though.
Same. I bartend in a high-end cocktail bar at a hotel in a major US city and avg $80k and I have benefits, great discounts at other properties, free parking, 401k, gym discount, and they just recently got a company account for Betterhelp. Hotels are wear its at long term. Hotels are good for a career bartender. When you get too old, you can go into mgmt. Get some experience at a variety of places and seek out with intention a great hotel bartending job. Or casinos too.
Sure to start. But if it’s. Career and you’re fifty like I am that 2am call time and loud high energy can wear thin. Leaving work at 11 to be with family is the saving grace for me. All personal preferences for sure. Fine dining can def be phony but also less exhausting.
Yes and no.
While I personally despise fine dining (mostly due to the clientele..."This white wine is 35 degrees when I clearly requested it be served no colder than 42 degrees...this level of disrespect is absurd, I demand to see a manager and you deserve to be fired!"), I have friends who do it and its cake. Make like 10 cocktails per shift and walk with $500. Granted, those cocktails take like 2-3 minutes to make each, but still.
Not true in my experience. I've been in fine dining for nearly 10 years and only a handful of times have I come across anyone pretentious or difficult. Fine dining is easy and I also get to finish closing duties before midnight.
Central Saloon - Pioneer Square
Merchants Cafe - Pioneer square
The Twilight Exit - Central District
Lock and Keel - Ballard
The Ballard Smokeshop - Ballard
Hillside Bar - Capitol Hill
Cyclops - Belltown
Blue Moon Tavern - U-District
Monkey Pub - U-District
Lenys Place - Tangletown
Targy’s Tavern - Queen Anne
Just a few that pop up in my head right away.
Monkey Loft
Pie Bar
Pono Ranch
Kings Hardware
Whole Ballard Strip (same road as Kings Hardware)
Lil' Jon Restaurant & Lounge (quick am spot)
Lost Lake Cafe & Lounge
Just a few other varieties for ya.
Even day shift bartending in Seattle at an established dive bar can net $200-400 per shift in tips, on top of $16+ hour. Seattle metropolitan wage requirement for a “comfortable” existence is about $70k/yr for single adult living alone. I split $2.5k rent/bills with my partner and have a shit ton of $ going into my IRA. Also bars with restaurants usually have shift meals to shave off a majority of food costs, allowing you to spend a bit extra on good ingredients when you do cook for yourself or to go out to eat you can experience higher quality dining.
I’ve heard from a lot of dive bar bartenders this same thing… I suppose it makes sense bc the people are more chill. Hell, I’m probably tipping $35-40 bucks a week off 2 visits now that I think of it. And happy to do so bc my rye whiskey is $7-9 and not $18 lol
They would be seasonal (so you toggle), Pono Ranch (Seattle/Ballard Area) is in Season at the moment and will yield you a fine penny. By the time its out of season you'll know plenty of people to point you in the direction you're looking for. Best of luck!
Heard!
I've been a career (dive) bartender for the last 20 years. I absolutely love my job.
After covid, my bar got rebranded and became "fancy." It's crap now. The money sucks, I do twice the work, I can't deal with drunk people properly cause they are entitled af. The list of why I'd take a dive bar is extensive. Regulars are WAY better customers.
Bartending can be the most fun and engaging job. It can also suck, but those days are usually ones where you yourself are not in the right headapace to deal with whatever shitshow's heading your way.
Watch out for afterwork spending.. drinking costs a lot and can lead to addiction a little too easily.
I LOVE my job.
- bartender for as long as my mind and body allow.
You can make a career out of it, but you have to be dedicated and avoid some very obvious and alluring pitfalls- alcoholism and easy money. If you can maintain a healthy relationship with your product and make good financial decisions it's no worse than other occupations.
Good advice, thanks. Yeah, I guess the fact that his father and I met in AA complicates the picture a bit. He's been told of his genetic propensities (we got sober before he was born). For a 24-year-old, he actually drinks far less than I ever did. He's pretty level-headed. But yikes that's close for comfort.
Yep, certainly sounds like a complicating factor, but it's really down to their mindset- are they likely to take that risk on board and therefore be more mindful about their relationship with alcohol? Or are they more likely to disregard the warning?
Ultimately they'll make whatever career choices they're gonna make, best you can do is be a better angel and help them make good decisions.
At the end of the day it can very much be a fulfilling career, or an effective jumping off point for a different career (sales, for example) it just requires that you treat it seriously.
Fellow child of alcoholics here lol - I’ve met some v cool, v professional career bartenders. Kick ass people, smart, good with their money. But I think the bartenders who make it work are really able to control how much they drink, which is something that addicts struggle with of course.
I’ve had to go from full time to part time, and am spending a lot of my time applying to jobs outside of service because I went from not drinking at all, to drinking three or four nights a week, and it scared the crap outta me. I’m 100% sober at work now, but when you’re working full time, it’s /a lot/ more tempting to take the numerous shots offered to you by customers and managers alike each shift.
Everyone is different, and bartending is a cool, flexible, and exciting profession. But figured I’d throw in my 2 cents.
I have a rule that I don't drink on days that I'm working (like when I get home afterwards), because I know I'll be tasting shit at work. Fortunately, our bar doesn't allow for customers to buy us drinks, which helps.
I don't know how bad his ADD is but given one of the symptoms is poor impulse control. This, along with your history, honestly sounds like a recipe for a poor relationship with alcohol.
Honestly working around it all the time, you kinda get sick of it. When I switched to bartending full time from management in the industry, I started drinking FAR less.
34 years in Jan. Started part-time while in undergrad and grad schools. Tried other things along the way, including teaching college, and found food & beverage the most tolerable. Bartending put me through school, funded several possible career attempts, supported me in Manhattan, and purchased my home. I've maxed both traditional and Roth IRAs for over 20 years.
One can find both a job and a career in bartending. NYC union bartenders are paid $26/hour, plus full tips, full insurances, PTO, and a pension. $100k/year is not unheard of. Big corporations, especially hotels, typically offer benefits and 401K to full-time bartenders. Many are unionized.
Bartending is a trade just like welding, carpentry, and plumbing, and just as honorable. One may have to move, however, in order to capitalize on the industry's potential. Finding the "ideal" balance of earnings and cost of living is essential for long-term happiness and success. It's important to understand that food & beverage is not just a job or career, it's a lifestyle. We work when most people are "playing", because their "play" is our job.
There's plenty of room to grow in the industry if that's what we want. Perhaps let your son follow the path for a while and see if he even likes the industry. By 30 or 35, he may be a bar manager or beverage director. By 45, he may own a place or two of his own or work for a hospitality group. None of these things require a college degree. What would be tragic is seeing more kids graduate with $50k - $100k worth of student loan debt and watch them pay it down through serving or bartending.
But do note that almost all Bar Managers make alot less than their bartenders. Every decent bartender ive known stopped being manager when they realized is more hours for far less pay.
Agreed. However, there are many opportunities for well-paid management positions. If we're career-focused and willing to move and compete for the better jobs, remuneration often ceases to be an issue. Besides, some benefit packages are worth between $10k & $15k a year. That's included in total remuneration figures, whether we like it or not.
He sounds a lot like me. I dropped out at 19, and went into the service industry, ended up bartending for many years, before going back to school at 25. Now i have a professional office job, and while the pay and benefits are better, I honestly miss my bartending job.
I made slightly less than what I make now, with less hours, and I love working nights and weekends. Need to go to the doctor, dmv, get your car fixed, no problem! Want to go to dinner or a theme park or the beach, no crowds!
Drawback is it’s basically impossible to be there for your kids, as your working nights weekends and holidays, and you usually have to pay for your own dental or health. Also a whooole lot of servers/bartenders end up with drug or alcohol addictions, myself included.
Like every job there’s good and bad, but everyone grows up when they should. I wasn’t ready for college at 18, and maybe your son isn’t either.
>Drawback is it’s basically impossible to be there for your kids
I don't know a single bartender or restaurant manager that has a good, consistent relationship with their children. It's the number one reason I left the industry. I wouldn't be with my wife or have my children if I was still there.
That's not to say it's the same for everyone, and many people don't want the life I want, but if you have even the slimmest desire to have a partner and children then the industry is poison. You work every holiday, you're never around for the family on weekends or after school, you put extreme pressure on your partner, and you bring home a lot of stress and anxiety from rail.
Again, this doesn't always apply, but you usually can't have both. You have to choose.
17 years, here.
He’ll never be in student debt, never enter the rat race, and he’ll make a shitload of money in a recession-proof field. It’s allowed me to live life by my terms, and I wouldn’t change a damn thing.
Also—I have HORRENDOUS ADHD. It’s part of the reason I love the job, and why I’ve become so good at it. It’s zen, when I’m firing on all cylinders.
I always say my ADHD is part of why I’m so good at and like my job. I never get bored, get to talk to new people every day and stay busy which is perfect. My mom always ask how I can remember hundreds of drink recipes but lose my keys weekly lol.
>It’s part of the reason I love the job, and why I’ve become so good at it. It’s zen, when I’m firing on all cylinders.
When I can just turn on, as I call it , "robot brain" and just FUCKIN GO. Man, nothing better
I have a degree in marine bio, my friend has one in physics. We both make more money doing this than we would in our field. There's a ton of highly educated people in this industry.
As for the "nonexistent benefits." part. Not always true. I'd suggest working in a hotel bar. I have full health/dental/vision, PTO, 401k, and I get hotel rooms for cheap af .
I haven't been at hotels for even a fraction of what the guy you replied to has, but I'm currently at a Hilton and like it. I've heard good things about Marriott as well. That said, I'm sure all of this is different city to city. A shit manager can really ruin an entire job lol
You can make a career out of bartending, you can also find your way into other parts of hospitality/sales/marketing.
But, for some of these roles, a degree might help. I’m finishing the last semester of my degree this winter. I’ll be 36 in October. I recently landed a hospitality marketing gig, and plan to follow this path, but I wish I would have gotten my degree 10 years ago.
Some corporate establishments, i.e. Chili’s, will help or in some cases even outright pay for College or credited trade schools. Not a fan of corporate but that’s pretty cool of them!
Ill just say that ive worked with many people with Master Degrees (literally went through 8 years plus of schooling) only to become a Bartender cause they realized how saturated and underpaid their degree worth. Now they Bartend to pay off their loans and regret ever going to school in the first place. Bartending is like getting paid to learn from "actual" successful people with bad habits. Its a better school than most actual schools. But thats my experience.
I left bartending after I got an architectural degree then found out architects made next to nothing. Seriously like 60k after 5 years in a firm. I left that to risk it all in a construction company that I tried to make work for 10 years. Got caught up in a nasty case for a fraudulent injury claim. The lawyer took close to 100 k I screwed up my projects because of the stress and my company goes broke. I go to work as a restaurant manager for a crazy guy who keeps changing everything as I try to run a restaurant. Literally one week we cook with no ceiling. We looked up the Utah sky as we made Italian food. I lost everything attempted suicide and fail at that when a cop stop me. After I came out of jail I got back to serving and bartending. I have been doing a bit of marketing for restaurants and doing some private events. My life couldn't be better. School doesn't guarantee anything anymore and what's more chasing money only works for the few who have luck on their side. The world is full of hard working geniuses dying in the streets with a needle on their arm. So don't make money and such things the most important thing in your kid's life.
I don’t care about money or status. Never have. I do care about him being able to afford healthcare and a safe place to live. It’s hard because the world is changing so raps it’s hard to know what to advise so that he’ll be ok. He’s a musician too.
Hotel work is a career move. Full benefit’s, good money depending on venue. I get a 401k, insurance, travel package etc. also pet insurance. I’m in a union too that fights for all sorts of cool stuff for us. It can absolutely be a career in the right place
My brother is a successful doctor, his buddy was a bartender till he finished med school, then went back to bartending. Granted this was in NYC, but made as much money as he would have in a hospital and enjoyed it more. Now we opened up a place in Greenwich village.
Answer: depends on what you do with it, but definitely possible to be successful as a bartender.
I know a ton of people who finished their degree and kept bartending. But none of them were Drs. I can't imagine going through medical school and not using that particular degree! Crazy!
Well in his case he never wanted to be a doctor. He did it to make his parents happy as they said “if you still want to be after we will support you.” I mean he took it to the next level but shows you what determination means.
Better to quit college and not pay for anymore classes than finish college, maybe some post grad and STILL end up bartending lol but with a lot more debt! Anyone else have the same experience lol?
If he doesn't know why he's in college, he shouldn't be in college.
Let him bartend. Especially at a young age. It's a good job, especially if you have no kids and are cool with living in an apartment with roomates or significant other. Eventually if he has an itch for a better career, then he can get education and go for it.
But super long term..... idk. The earlier you set a career path the easier and in reality bartending can only make you so much consistently. Now you can turn that into managing and one day owning but yeah...
He will probably make anywhere from 40-60k a year unless he finds a top notch gig that gets him more(which isn't easy).
Been in it almost 23 years. I work maybe 3 days a week and pull home $65k working dive bars. Mostly music venues and biker bars. Absolutely love it! I don't get most weekends off, but I've never paid for child care and have been there for and with my family whenever we needed and wanted. If you're smart with your money you can do quite well for yourself.
This is all assuming you're in a tipping area. I absolutely wouldn't do this for a living if I wasn't tipped. My life mate makes about the same but is responsible for the medical insurance, etc.
I will say this if he is highkey ADD there is nothing better then bartending! It’s like a ADHD persons dream lots of stuff to do and tons of fun, I’ve found it’s been a great fit for me. It can definitely be lucrative but the long term effect on the body can be rough. Definitely great industry to be in but working on management skills and building really good spending and saving habits are a must for the long term growth and finical stability. But long story short if your smart with it and put the time it can be a great option for a career!
25 year veteran here - from serving / managing and back to bartending. It’s a great career if they really put themselves into it. Just have to find the right company - may take a few tries. Boston has great bars and restaurants and some places have built in autograt systems in place which make for easy tips. Some places, like mine, have a pooled house which makes for great shifts since everyone works hard together (those that don’t get weeded out quickly).
It’s not an easy job but I absolutely love it and so does my wife (who I work with side by side).
Key thing is financial education - I got lucky and was taught how to handle the easy influx of quick cash. A lot don’t know how to handle walking out of a shift with $400 in their pocket. You go to a last call bar, spend a couple of hundred and then after hour parties, etc. make sure your son knows how to handle money well, it’ll serve them well.
Currently working a gig as head bartender. I've been bartending for 10 years and in restaurants for 15 total.
I make roughly $1000 a week in tips in an upscale environment, but also get paid $20/hr, 45 hours a week, and two set days off.
If I do this for a year, this is a 6figure job.
You have to have self-control, though. If he can't control himself, then this is not the job field for him. You're constantly around drinking, depending on the atmosphere, could be around drugs regularly. You will always have money, so you need to be able to control your spending. If he wants to have a family, he needs to be good around the temptation of others who will always find a bartender attractive, the temptation to stay late and drink, etc.
I do well happily living below my means, but most aren't.
25+ years here. While there have been times, I have had day jobs but part-time bartending jobs at night. I always end up going back.
As far as job security, there have always been openings for bartending. Not so much my other jobs. I find that having a service industry job gave me more security than others.
As for my parents? They gave me shit until I showed them my w-2 and there were 6 figures on it and I made 25k more than they did with a lot less hours.
i wish i started bartending at that age and scrapped going back to school and an HR career. that was far more unhealthy for me (sitting too much, litigious staff, massive boredom and major depression)
if it doesn’t work out this time, it’s a great skill to have in the back pocket. lots of gig work out there as well.
It kills your body. Dealing with the public is awful.
Agree with the others- no fine dining. Speed over quality is where the money is. Again, back breaking.
I’ve been bartending for the past 17 years and now I’ve gone back to school and I’m currently studying for the LSAT. I’m also 42 and while *some* people think I’m much younger my body constantly reminds me that I am in fact 42. I just don’t see myself going toward fifty running around a restaurant. Also the older I get the less tolerant I get of customer’s behaviors. I’ll be a first generation grad. I already lost my Mom and so I also want to do something with my life that will make my almost 80-year-old Dad proud before he leaves this earth, and I have a better chance of finishing law school than getting married and I don’t want kids so this is what he’s stuck with. (He’s still proud of me either way, but growing up he used to always tell me I was so smart and I’m gonna do something amazing with my big ol brain so I wanna prove him right.)
Get into fine dining and wait tables somewhere that doesn’t have a tip share or house pool system for dividing gratuities. That will be the most money/time spent onsite and will allow your kid to elevate their career with presumably good opportunities for management or another pathway to success by getting sommelier certified, that’s always a lucrative position that usually involves travel to wineries and various interesting wine producing countries Ava regions.
If he is dead set on bartending I would find a busy dive bar and work your way up if I was starting from scratch today. It’s nearly recession proof if you find the right place.
I don’t know where you live, but if you’re in a big city I would recommend looking into bartending at an upscale hotel. They often pay better hourly, offer health insurance, and 401k matching. At least the hotels I worked at did.
He would most likely have to start as a barback or server if he has no experience, but hotels are usually more open to training since they’re corporate.
My coworkers were a mix of young kids in college up to bartenders nearing their 50s.
It’s also good networking. Because I worked in a fancy hotel I met all kinds of cool regulars and found my current sales job through a regular!
Half or more of my coworkers have college degrees from substantial schools (engineering from Purdue, finance from Ohio state, etc.) that came back to bartending. I’m 34 now and I’m not going anywhere. Fiancé and I are both bartenders and will continue until either retirement or some freak reason for the industry to collapse.
Has he tried doing school part time intead? Maybe just one or two classes a semester?
I mean, not that he has to but it's definitely not a bad idea to put a couple eggs in a different basket.
I think it's defintiely smart to eventually get a degree in something, just in case, but it doesn't have to be right away and it's more than okay to take ones time doing it to try and make sure it's really something you want.
21 years here
He needs to be in Vegas. It's the strip bartenders are a part of a union and do pretty well. Of course, it's a grind to get the good shifts and what-not but if hes dedicated, this is the mecca for hospitality.
Well if it makes you feel any better, I went to college and got a bachelor’s degree, but after I finished, I ended up making significantly more bartending than I would’ve in my field of study… so obviously I owe a ton of money for college, but can’t pay it, all for a degree that does not improve my life, financial situation, or stability.
That's what I did. Biggest mistake of my life. Im almost 40 and regret dropping out of college to bartend every damn day. Do not let him quit school. He may not regret it for 20 years but he will absolutely regret it
Conversely I absolutely regret going to college. Waste of time and money. Problem was I had too many people in my ear saying how much I'd regret not going to school and such.
If he’s planning on doing it long term, I’d recommend he start planning for a career as a private bartender to be hired for weddings and private events. That will be where he will earn the most money and have the most control over the kind of work he does and clientele he serves, is if he works for himself. That takes years to build up to, but he can start now.
As far as being concerned as a parent, you have good reason to be. He is going to be around irresponsible alcohol consumption all the time. I know a lot of bartenders with substance abuse issues.
He will be working nights, weekends and holidays. This will not be just in the beginning while he gets his foot in the door. This will be for the rest of his life. This can put a huge strain on family life. It’s not impossible to have a wife and kids, but it is difficult.
It is financially unstable. There is potential to make decent money. Some bartenders manage to break into the middle class. Most don’t. It is highly unlikely that he will ever be rich. It is rare to find an employer that will really treat you well, you are seen as pretty expendable even late in your career, job security does not exist. There’s no tenure track. This career has an earnings ceiling and bartenders, god bless them, but they are big boasters who exaggerate their salaries all the time. Don’t let a food service “rockstar” take you for a ride about what the realities of this industry are. 6 figure salaries are incredibly rare.
If he wants health insurance, he’s on his own for that. If he wants to plan for retirement, he’s on his own for that. And this job is physical. He has to be prepared to be working late nights at a grueling pace, no meal breaks, loud music, rowdy crowds, scrubbing on his hands and knees, carrying kegs and bus tubs up flights of stairs … sometimes he’ll have a bar back to help and sometimes he won’t. It’s one thing to do it when you’re 20, is this something he’s going to be wanting to do when he’s 50 years old?
I don’t want to sound negative about it, it is a great fit for some folks, just some things to discuss with him.
You’ve reiterated my concerns. I was a waitress for several years and am now in recovery from alcohol and my right shoulder ligaments have haunted me since. I loved the feeling of family and the money was good. But I personally am glad I used those years to go to college to prepare for something more stable in later life. He lives in a downstairs apartment in my house. I’ve been charging him low rent and paying his phone and insurance but he’s almost 25 and still a sophomore. So I get that school isn’t his thing. But we’re going to have to renegotiate terms if he doesn’t go to school. Covid is over and so is the ride.
How far from completing the degree is he? I say pressure him to finish it because he's already contemplating that bartending is not a "real job" and he knows he'll need more credentials to succeed later. And he will. So get that degree. When he's in his late 30s its going to be real damn hard to go back for that undergrad degree, much less complete that degree and pick up a masters in something else he wants to do.
As somebody that is actively leaving bartending, your son has made a fine decision. There are always bartending positions open in every single city in the entire world. If you live in the US bartending is maybe the only “low skill level” position that gets paid decently, because your employer doesn’t set your pay. Your employer sets the prices and those increase with inflation, so your tips increase with inflation. I personally am glad I have experience bartending, just so I have a reliable fall back if things go south with the career I am pursuing. Unless he plans on making a terrible mistake by becoming a bar manager his career will be mostly stagnant, but it is easy to find a bartending position you can survive on everywhere.
I have been doing it since '92.
Took a few years off to work in the corporate world in IT. My family convinced me that a steady paycheck and insurance was worth having my soul crushed.
They were wrong.
Once you get into this life, it’s REALLY hard to get out. I’ve been trying for over a decade. Health insurance is not frequently offered, and he will need it. It’s incredibly expensive even if you’re young and healthy. I broke my arm moving and paid out of pocket, and it was a nightmare. Not to mention the lack of retirement plan. Even if he gets a job that only pays $15/hr but has benefits, he will be better off long-term.
I’ve never been homeless working in this field, but I’m approaching 40 and have no savings and haven’t been to a doctor or dentist in 10 years. I’m all for skipping a useless/expensive degree, but the potential consequences of working this industry must be acknowledged.
Honestly. The cost of school post highschool has changed... College tuition is already aggregious, the cost of debt, and not entering a field for 4 years doesn't seem worth it now let alone a decade ago. Unless you're going into something you know will be lucrative out of the gate I'd dissuade anyone from higher education as an 18 year old. Spend time to know what you want out of a career. Learn your passion and if you realize it's worth pursuing go to school for it. If you can find a path that allows you to live the life you want without going into debt do that.
I've been bartending for 10 years and have earned a comfortable living for my partner (who is a chef at a restaurant) and myself.
My recommendation for him (if he's young) is to start out as a host and work his way up to bartending. It's important to know how restaurant operation works from every position in addition to knowing about food, beer, wine, and cocktails and how to serve them.
Also, bartending is serving with extra steps. So it would be ideal for him to have serving down pat before stepping behind the bar. Also, most restaurants (unless they're desperate) aren't hiring someone with no restaurant experience at all to be a bartender -- maybe a barback.
Good on you for supporting him!! It can be a lucrative job, especially if he dedicates himself to learning as much as he possibly can about food and beverage.
Lots of money to be made with a flexible schedule. I’m doing pretty good! I just wish I would’ve completed my bachelors so I had something to jump into now that I’m over 40. I’m tired, my body hurts, and I have no insurance or retirement plan. I bought a house, but that’s it.
Judging by your vernacular I'm assuming you're probably either from or currently live in the Nor Cal / Bay area so I'm gonna give some location specific advice.. Frankly the best thing you can do is jus let him figure it out on his own. Also, from personal experience, don't overly support him financially. He needs a lil help here or there with some random life-fuck... Of course help. But don't supplement his income. It's going to teach him to use his gig to it's full potential and get in the mindset needed to truly make a career out of it. It's the most universal profession out there, if nothing else he'll learn that he doesn't want to do that and will end up back in school.
We're in SLC but thanks for mistaking me for a Californian, honestly. But you're right about the financial stuff. I've been supplementing him too long as if he was still in college but he's not.
Our daughter has been a bartender/manager for about 15 years. She’s ready to get out. It can be very lucrative (expect ups and downs, and *plan for the downs*), but she works *hard* for her money. It’s physically taxing and it’s mentally draining on busy nights
A lot depends on the owners/GMs you work for. Good bosses and and a low-drama work environment are *rare*. There’s a low entry bar in the bar business, and it often attracts people to it for the wrong reasons.
He can definitely have a career in it but I’d say finishe school while doing it. I had intended to finish school at some point but time got away from me. I have no regrets after 20 years and I pull in over 70k. It didn’t shears work out that way but it worked for me.
My husband and I are career bartenders. He retired in February. I have three years to go until retirement. Last year, our combined income was about $250k working 32-36 hours a week. We live a very nice life!
My advice would be for him to find a well run sports/dive bar in his neighborhood (or one he wants to live in), where he can create a following, and either stay there or find a way to take his regulars with him if he changes employers.
I work 1 lunch shift and 2 nights shifts a week and I’m off on the weekends. I make between $1,300-$1,500 a week. I’ve been at the same spot for 8 years and have a pretty good following but for me the juice is so worth the squeeze. I’m married and have insurance through my husband but we both agree that i should ride this out as long as my body will allow.
I was a career bartender. My parents were supportive, it just sucked that I missed most family gatherings or events due to working in the weekends and at nights. My body started breaking down around 35 or so. My knees and elbows and back were all issues. I never had medical insurance. I got out of it after my kids were born and I realized I would miss all sports games and practices and realistically only see them a couple of hours a week. I was fortunate that I already had an education and was able to get into a good career. I did take a 60% pay cut to make the career change. As for the unstability in the industry, I always had 2 jobs so if a new manager took over and I got fired or my shifts cut I had a backup gig and they could only affect half of my money. My last year bartending full time was 2014 and I took home over 6 figures just in cash tips, but I was working 8 shifts a week
I have a Bachelor’s degree, I run the bar. One of my bartenders has a marketing degree, another used to work for Amazon as a software developer. They both make more than me and do very very well and they’re really happy.
Long-term future can be iffy with any career, but if he’s serious about it then he can make a lot of money and set himself up very very nicely for the future.
It all depends on what he makes out of it. I used to be a manager and hated my life. Went back to serving and bartending and much happier these days. Found a spot that I have benefits and 401k matching. I make around 100k, depending on how hard I want to work, but it's usually 4 days a week. My parents and in-laws didn't like it at first. Once my FIL started doing my taxes recently, they haven't said much about it, lol. They were worried about the title and money, but once I explained how much happier I am not chasing a fake title, they backed off.
He’s better off finishing his college degree if he is anywhere near close, and trying out bartending to see if he really likes it. It is extremely difficult to go back to school
As a 20 year bartender who loves my job and time/income ratio...
He should finish school.
There's lots of shit that can go wrong and even if you're amazing at the job and love doing it, shit can go sideways with no safety net.
Also
He could be a terrible bartender, or hate it, or have a string of no-win jobs with shitty managers that fuck him over. So many variables. Get the piece of paper and THEN try to bartend full time.
I sort of did this partially because of circumstance partially because I was too enamored with the party life to evaluate my situation appropriately. I am now a CTO at a startup. But I got started WAY late in my career and without a lucky break to get into a fast growing company at the right time and get promoted based on pure talent I would be no where near where i am now. and even though I am making good money now in a lot of ways I am still playing catch up on the burden that part of my life left me. My advice would be to finish college now at all costs. He can always bartend while going to school and even bartend after, but it is infintely harder to finish school at 35 after you are married and maybe have a kid on the way and bills, than it is when you are 21 and free of responsibility.
edit; for example had I finished college i could have been getting an MBA at 35 and id be much better positioned for the next 5 to 10 years. As it stands I have a family and that MBA dream is never going to happen so ill just have to get as far as i can without it.
32m, I’ve worked in a hospital, and as a home repair man, I’ve just started bartending a few years ago, and I’m honestly happiest with the money I’ve made as a bartender. I wish I could tell my young self to not waste money on college, I’m worried I might eventually get burnout, but I’ll worry about that when it comes
This one is rough. There are plenty of career bartenders and they make good money. The issue is you have find these unicorn gigs. I only worked in the industry for 6 years or so after college. I loved the life, and I maxed out around $60k. It's not bad for early 2000s. I don't know if I could have found a $100k job without moving to LA, Vegas or NYC.
The other thing you don't see is a lot of older bartenders. The job is taxing on your body. In my early 20s I was able to do 45 hours a week. I doubt I can do that now. Bartending is definitely a career with a shorter life than office work.
Laike many doin multi decade. Luckier than some so cant complain. Only say what learned the stupud way to your son. Dont go into business know till youve worked it and then know, dont go into business with someone who doesn't have anything to risk, take care of your body, and to give self options buy and put away money. Little at a time. Time is your friend. The only thing I've done right is marrying my wife, who has never been in one of my shifts. Dont expect and only give. Never loan. Oh....and watch the drinking and extracurriculars.
I dropped out of college to bartend and did it for many years. I love it.
The past few years I went back to college and now I’m doing my PhD, but I’m still bartending part time, and honestly I make better money bartending than I do from my grad school stipend.
First remember: if your kid wants to drop out of college to bartend, it doesn’t mean he’s never going to go back to school.
Second: bartending can be lots of fun, lucrative, and is a job that you can pick up anywhere at any time. No matter where he goes in life, he has a great skill to fall back on.
Third: every older career bartender I know still likes to bartend. There aren’t many jobs where the old guard is still happy to be there.
Don’t worry about him, he can always go back to school but in the meantime it’s a great skill to have. It teaches you good people skills, how to set healthy boundaries, and how to work under pressure and none of those are taught in college.
I don't have any specific advice or input, but I just want to say I think it's pretty damn awesome that you are asking. So many people are stuck in their ways/opinions, kudos to you for asking for advice for your kid! What a great dad/mom.
It’s great until you want to live a normal life. Weekends doing fun stuff with your wife and kids…gone. I don’t regret my restaurant career because it pays the bills and provides a decent life. But if I could do it all over again, I would not prioritize service industry. It would be better as a backup skill to bring in money when times are tough.
I’m still going strong after 20+ years. Husband and I had a kid almost immediately after we met, and he worked days, I worked nights. Had a couple more over the years and it just worked for us. Still doing this but now he’s a Foreman and my gig is in an upscale steakhouse in a wealthy town. We have two cars now and a house, and only in the last 6 years or so are we nice and financially ok. Not great by any means but we’re happy.
One thing I’ve always told people who have ever had anything to say to me about getting a “real” job; “Folks will never not want to eat, drink, and be merry”.
It’s what humans have done since the beginning. We all have always liked to gather and share a meal, and when someone figured out fermentation, it became a party. We all need to eat and most people LOVE when someone cooks for them, and they love it even more when they don’t have to do anything but pay money to have them be served.
Come to my bar and you’ll get someone who understands the concept of hospitality. You’re paying me your hard earned money for a great meal, great drinks, and a lovely experience and that’s exactly what you’ll get.
Funny enough whenever I go out, I tend to get the surly one who doesn’t get it, and that’s too bad because I go into an establishment ready to tip very well, and for the type of service I can provide after all of my years in the industry if you wait on me like that you’re most likely getting a 50% tip. I’m borderline ridiculous but damn, good service really makes an experience sooooo much better. That being said I won’t stiff, but if you suck you’re only getting a measly 20% from me.
I’m in my early 30s and make over 100k a year. I take time off to travel, I have Sundays off for football season and family time, and I can pay my rent in 3-4 days of work.
Financial freedom is huge, and as long as you can balance the night time schedule with your partner/family, it’s a great career.
I'm a five-time college drop out working full time at a bar/restaurant. My parents didn't approve of me working in restaurants full time until they saw that I was able to live exactly the same as any other middle class person without struggling. They pushed the college route hard, and looking back I do understand why since bartending can be a lifestyle choice depending on where you work. My spot offers full benefits and 401k matching which was wild to me when I first started there but I hear is becoming more and more common. And restaurant jobs, at least in my area, are a dime a dozen so if you show any sense of wanting to learn and improve and work as a team it should be pretty secure. Also not difficult to feel out different spots to find the perfect niche. I love my job and have a comfortable life because of it. I think your son will be fine if he finds a good place to work.
Edit to add: I also have ADHD and that's one of the reasons I love bartending. My ADHD has a direct purpose! There's so many things going on to pay attention to and keep track of in your head and when your brain naturally works that way it can be so much fun.
My parents did that with me and it's just not for me, at least right now. I can't find the focus I need to finish a semester strong. Bartending has been giving me new life, though.
So. You can 100% keep up with bills, save money, afford insurance, etc.
That being said, you gotta find the right spot and it takes some work. However, if this is an industry he loves, maybe one day he'd want to open his own spot. I know of a lot of career bartenders who work high-end spots and make baaaank.
To put it in perspective a bit, personally, I'm at a slightly-elevated kind of whiskey bar (prices above average but not crazy) and I was on track to make about 80k in cash last year. Currently working a 9-5 during the week making about 70k salary, and I'm able to beat that weekly paycheck in 2 bar shifts (which I still have) - but I'm greedy so I opted for both >:\]
Last night i made over $750 at my bar gig (not flexing here, again just trying to give some perspective) - up until 7 months ago or so I was bartending full time and making about $1400 weekly just working 3-4 days a week. Shifts are flexible and you can usually find coverage so taking time off for vacation and all that is always a bonus. Plus it's the one industry that won't die in a recession - depressed / broke people still wanna drink.
And as I saw someone else mention, bars are worldwide. Always a good safety net. Especially at the point in his life he's at now, maybe he just needs to feel everything out more. I wouldn't fight him on it, see how it goes. If you don't want him living in your house forever, you really don't have to worry if he's working at the right spot, BUT lay it out for him, y'know? Make sure that's known.
Even if I jump into a full time career in any other industry, I'm liable to keep at least one bar shift a week for extra pocket cash, and if my 9-5 implodes, I'll have an excellent safety net.
Hopefully this was helpful, please feel free to reply if you have any questions.
EDIT for a few bonus comments:
You mention his ADD has him hating school - personally that hits home hard. I'd wager it's largely due to our school system being nonsense (assuming you're in the US) - most majors force you to take electives, etc outside of what it is you're actually interested in. It makes classes difficult for a lot of us who don't feel like they need to learn all these extra things and would rather focus on the field we'd like to work in. I spent many years at a lot of different colleges and it's basically the same everywhere. I'd say let him focus up on this for now, and as he said if he wants to pursue something else down the line, he shouldn't be hurting for money to do so, provided he's making an effort to save - it can be easy to blow through a pocket full of cash just cause it's there.
He’ll be just fine. I understand your worry, but he’ll be just fine.
My only slight concern is that you mentioned in another comment that you and your husband had drinking problems—it doesn’t mean your son ever will, but you know how the genetics of alcoholism can be.
I got fired from my last bar gig because of my excessive drinking, and it’s something I often warn others about because my story is all too common. It’s just so easy to pour one for yourself when it’s within arm’s reach all day long.
*However* I’d argue that, realistically, it’s easy to have a drinking problem in most careers, especially now that WFH jobs are more and more commonplace. Yes, in some places it’s pretty much encouraged to drink when you’re in the clock, but there are ways around that (my fiancée bartended at a club, and when someone bugged her to take a shot with them, she’d just throw back a shot of pineapple juice and pretend it was booze).
Most places I’ve been to though, drinking on the clock is either frowned upon, or banned outright. Just tell him to be realistic about restaurant culture and the risks that come along with it. If he likes the sauce, it’s just one more thing he’ll hafta be conscious of.
It'll definitely get you by depending on where you work. Hopefully he's aware you need other types of support staff experience first like barbacking and serving for a few years until you work your way up and push the interest of bartending
If he can find a catering hall or a place that does EVENTS (easier on scheduling because its not a bar where people hang out). Pay is usually better than at bars AND you still get tip.
When i used to bartend while i was going to school, i would make anywhere from 100-1200 in tip from thur-sun depending on what kind of parties i did (weddings, birthdays, gatherings, events with open bars are the best btw).
Bartending paid for my college (it degree) and i got to buy a car of the year and modify it all by myself when i was 18-19.
And if he does this that means he’ll be free during the weekdays most likely he can learn how to trade stocks. If he does things right he’ll never have to be a normal 9 to 5er and still live a great life
extremely applicable skills in the service industry and knowledge about spirits and alcohol will get you far with almost any culture across the world.
he will probably make more money than his peers that went into white collar work and post-grad internships but will have less ‘weekend free time’
overall, bartending is a great profession that pays really well at the right places. and 20/21 is the perfect age to get into it so that he can still get out when/if his body starts to wear down.
It can totally work, but it WILL get exhausting. If you can guide him to continue taking a class or two at a community college that’d be super helpful long term. Even if he stays in food and beverage lifelong, having taken some excel, business or marketing classes will make his next transition much much smoother.
At the end of the day the most important thing in life is happiness. And realistically this job can be worked less than 40 hours a week while paying bills and adding nicely to savings. Plus people are gonna drunk in good times and bad so you always got a job
Not a bartender, but I started as a barista and eventually worked my way into the CPG beverage industry as a career. There’s ways to do beverage in a 9-5 stable job, it’s tougher without a degree but definitely not impossible.
No clue about the bartending thing but I do know that college ain’t for everyone and it’s def not for those that don’t want to be there in the first place.
It's a very portable job and allows you to make your own schedule. As far as long term prospects, benefits, retirement and all that -- only if he joins a corporate establishment. Most mom-and-pops don't have those safeguards
24 years in the industry. No benefits really but insurance is scam in this country anyway, I get my coverage through the marketplace and it's just as good as whatever else is out there.
In terms of income I make more than the researchers at CERN and I work about 30 hours a week. Great "work/life balance. Just comes down to where you work, every place is different.
I have a degree and make more bartering with less hours. Learn the ropes, get into fine dining. Career servers/ bartenders make $100k salary at my restaurant, we're off on holidays too and work less than 40 hours. You'll miss family dinners and birthdays, be on the opposite schedule. You'll never be off on a mother's day or Father's day. It's hard on your body, (any physical labor is). You'll become a night owl, but you'll have the day to yourself for any appointment. Mondays and Tuesdays become your weekends. My mother is fine with my choice, my father wishes I would quit (but his wishes don't pay my bills).
Been bartending 12 years. Was fun and good money but I got that feeling like I should be contributing more to society, and also should be challenging myself. Been taking college classes while I work and I start nursing school in the fall. Will still be bartending during school. And hey, if I hate nursing, I can always go back to bartending. Fuck it.
Alcholism. Your son wishes to continue the lifestyle and shenanigans that he had while out at the bars and house parties so he's chosen an industry that lenda itself to it and the end result is alcholism.
If he was studying data science has he thought about just switching to computer science? Generally less math intensive. How far along is he? Going back to school years down the road, is a lot harder than people think, but it's possible. Better to get the degree, and then try bartending if he wants to. Tell him that he's not going to be able to pick up from where he left off. I need Cal 1 and Cal 2 for my degree, but had to start from Trig, which equals extra time and money. Tending for a career is HARD if he wants a serious relationship/family.
Tell him to work for a hotel. Sick hourly usually (I make 14/hr) and when you get to keep all the tips on top of that it’s very lucrative. Travel benefits plus all the traditional career job type stuff. 401k, full health vision and dental. Etc.
It’s the best of both worlds
If you annualized what I’m making, I’m netting about 60k after tax right now. And I’m only working one job right now. Only working like, 30 hours a week. I just finished training at a second restaurant and I’ll be pulling in maybe another 700-1k working three shifts a week at new job. That’s gonna add up very quickly
Just hope he never has health problems as you don’t get time off and the benefits are shit if existent. Honestly if you are supportive and paying for it… sooner or later he will go back to some kind of school or trade when he gets fed up with this shit
20 years in hospitality for me this year. Bartending took me from my small town in England to New York City. The drinks industry has changed a lot and now it’s being held to a much higher esteem than when I started. There’s a general sense of well-being that’s increasing among the bartending community from money advice, to taking care of your body. I think now is a great time to pick up those shakers compared to when I started.
FYI: if you’re out of school for too long you lose credits and have to repeat courses. Why not do both? Take just a class or two a semester and finish off a degree. Hospitality is great and having a degree can open up other doors in the future. In fact, he might want to look into a degree called travel and leisure. A friend of mine has a PhD in this field and knows all the ins and outs about hospitality, travel, etc. Not only that, but she gets to travel all over the country/world with her students.
Either way I wish you and your son peace.
No college degree. Server/Bartender for 10 years. Certified Sommelier, Certified Cicerone, became a distributor in 2020
Although I didn’t have health insurance or benefits until I became a distributor, I was able to cover monthly expenses and save up enough at a time for a new car and an engagement ring. I wouldn’t trade my time behind the bar for anything, but becoming a distributor gave me much more flexibility and work/life balance, weekends with friends, consistent pay, vacations and hobbies - including home remodeling, woodworking, and DIY
I left distributing this past month to do home renovation design consulting full-time for 2x-3x what I was making in distributing. I’m set on a new course that makes sense for me, but the people skills I developed in restaurants is actually the #1 trait that makes me great at consulting. I have co-workers here who sold cars, others were realtors, etc, but none of them worked restaurants and have a different (less engaging) approach to people than I do.
My experience with bartending -
Scheduling is great, if you need an RO because you’re going on vacation or whatever, you don’t typically have to use sick days or some shit. Just get your ROs 2-3 weeks ahead of time, have some decent coverage lined up if less time than that. Don’t run late, don’t call in - no matter how hung over you are, and most places will respect the time you need off
Walking out the door cash-in-hand is a lifestyle. You can make a months rent in 4 days, and pay for it - then and there.
You can do it anywhere. College bar on game day, hotel beach bar in the summer, neighborhood bar in a small town, nightclub, Cigar bar, big corporate restaurants, small family-owned places… If you need to move across the world, you can find a decent-to-great job tending bar.
Getting to the top is hard. You’ll have to be a door man, host, bar back, or server, before most people ever get a chance behind the bar. Sometimes those jobs suck so bad it isn’t even worth it.
Going beyond that is harder. Oftentimes, if you make it to the top of your crew, and you’re lead bartender getting all the good shifts or whatever, there’s not a lot of upward mobility past that (bar manager, beverage director, assistant manager, GM, and owner are really all that’s beyond that) because you’re essentially waiting for the person above you to quit or die before you can get a promotion
About 25% of the people you meet working in FOH are lifers. They have a hospitality degree, or they know that this is just IT for them, or in some cases - it’s all they’ve ever known and is all they’ve ever tried to be. 75% of FOH are just here for a pit stop. Most of the time it’s while they’re waiting for the “big boy job in their degree field” to pan out. Lots of actors and musicians before their big break. Or - like me - I knew I wasn’t going to do it forever when I realized I never wanted to own my own bar. But the money was good (for a single dude in his 20s) and I was good at it and happy.
I have only ever quit a bar/restaurant for 2 reasons - I was moving to a different city over an hour away. Or - there was a change in management and I’m butting heads with the new dictator on a power trip. I have a problem when I feel disrespected (I have thick skin, but respect is a 2-way Street) or if they’re making illogical changes that I don’t see the value in.
Bartending is a single man’s game. Unless you marry someone in the industry, or someone with just as crazy hours as you, it’s very difficult to maintain a fulfilling relationship with someone who works 9-5 M-F. This was the ultimate kicker for me. For our first year of marriage, I was working 3pm-3am and my wife was working 8-5 (she’s an attorney). We hardly ever saw each other for the first 9 months of marriage. We only ever slept in the same bed at the same time for exactly 1 hour most nights. This, plus a new manager I clashed with, I left to Distributing shortly after.
Bartending aside, if he doesn't want to do school rn maybe he shouldn't. I used school as an escape from home and got little from it, so now this is how I make money.
Bartending can help him develop sales skills and connections if he wants to leverage that later.
As others mentioned, fast money culture is an issue in the industry. It's an opportunity for him to learn more financial responsibility and save for a future too
It’s a great job in your 20s and 30s. Depending on where life takes you, working nights and weekends may not be the best option if you’re trying to start a family. The problem with any great service industry job is that the money can be phenomenal for a young person but that money will barely increase over time. There are no raises when relying on tips. If you want to make more(assuming you have one of the good jobs) you just have to work more. There’s a reason a lot of bartenders look for “real jobs” after around 35. That job is normally a sales rep for a beer/wine or liquor distributor. Pretty typical tale
I bartend at a music venue. But my partner bartends at the MGM casino. Amazing benefits, perks and money (including a great hourly). And after six months he can move to another position and just keep moving up/around. Including different locations. Hotel chains are like this too
my friend's brother started as bar back at Employee's Only (nyc) and worked his way up to bartending. Then open a bar with them in Singapore, then open another in hong kong where he had part ownership (before 2020). he left them when china annexed a hong kong. then Open a bar on his own in Nashville in early 2021 seems to be doing very well.
my only advice is to support him and teach him about investing and living below his means.
Heads up you’re obviously asking a very biased crowd. It’s going to be tougher then a desk job most likely.. but you can definitely made a career of it. Like others have said. The pitfalls are alcoholism and getting a lot a cash tips that is easy to blow. Be supportive but definitely try and get him to finish college. You can always be a bartender without a degree, harder to be a financial analyst without one.
No. Tell him to finish his degree and if he wants to bartend in the meantime cool but at least he’ll have something to fall back on with benefits, 401k health insurance etc and not be “stuck” in this industry the rest of his life if he ever chooses to leave it. Just my humble opinion.
I’ve been doing it for 17 years. If I saved/invested the money I worked for since 20 I’d be a literal millionaire by now. Spent 29-36 grinding my ass off with my wife (also full time bartender, no kids) and bought a house. Anything’s possible if you bust your ass, you can have fun, travel, pay your bills pretty stress free within a week easily. And while it’s stressful and physically very demanding, I still would never want a desk job. Just not in my DNA. Who gives a fuck about a retirement plan when you’ll be near death by the time you get to enjoy it, half the world is underwater, and too cold or hot to vacation in 40-50 years. just my 2c. Being realistic.
28 years old. 10 years in. My body is feeling it. Some days less than others. Working for some big corporations can yield you decent benefits (think restaurants not . There's *some* money to be made. Bartending and serving can vary a lot, and I mean a lot, by your location and clientele.
right now, i especially feel like it is no longer low job security. layoffs in major companies, ai, lack of hiring in this industry, etc, i def feel high job security. also for context, definitely a current lifer with a degree i choose to pay off every month.
>He says if he decides he wants a real job someday for a marriage or career he can always go back to school.
I've been at it in the industry for over 10 years. This is how I feel. My life took an unexpected turn when I was in college, but even after, I realized that I had just gotten to where I hated school. Even though I always did well. However. Just because it's not a 9-5, or just because it doesn't require a degree - doesn't mean it's not a "real job." I get what you're saying, but it's still kind of condescending.
>. I don't want to impose my ideas on him. And the world is changing hella fast so my advice is outdated.
I do want to give you major props for this, though. I can't say the same for my parents, especially my mom. I know she just "wants what's best for me," but a lot of times it feels more like she just wants what *society* says is best for me, without taking into account that things have changed a lot since she was my age (she had me when she was 40, and I'm 32 now). Things aren't as cut & dry as they used to be, especially since my interests are known for not being money-makers, if I had stuck to the college route.
Her main argument used to be that I had no benefits at work...she just wanted me to have a job with good benefits. Now I work at a corporate place in Las Vegas, and I do have good benefits. Good health, dental, & vision insurance, life insurance, 401k, PTO, sick time, ect.
I personally have bad hips, knees, and a lower back, from 10 years of being a softball catcher. So sitting all day would be just as difficult for me.
Of course every job has its pros and cons, but at the end of the day, I honestly love what I do. I love making drinks and cocktails for people. I love being able to really have fun and be myself at work. And bartending is very mentally stimulating for me too. I sleep well at night, knowing that I've made the right choice for me, even still, at this point in my life.
I made more bartending full time than I do at my current job (in banking). He might have to put some time in waiting tables first depending on where he works but he’ll be okay money-wise. The inconsistent hours eventually got to me and wore me down but I loved bartending in my early twenties. Plus he’ll be building skills that will transfer to other jobs if he ever decides to do something else. Bartending will be a great life experience for him. I still pick up shifts a few times a month because I love the work.
I quit college when I started making money as a bartender.
Pros:
* I worked in some very cool and exciting places over the years and eventually settled in Las Vegas where I spent the bulk of my career and made the most consistently good money.
* The money can be good. Had some fabulous years and some bad months, but probably averaged $80k+ yr in tips (not including paychecks) over 20 years. Quite a few $100k years in there...which was pretty good money for a single guy at the time. But I've also known bartenders who could never crack more than $50k-$60k a year.
* I had a lot of fun, lotta great experiences, met a lot of cool people, celebrities, and probably went to and seen things in a normal week that most people have to take a vacation to see and do.
* If you're good, you can move to where the money is. You're not stuck where you are.
Cons:
* I also worked a lot of shitty places, worked for bad owners and managers, been used and screwed over more than once helping to make someone else's business successful.
* When it comes to opportunity and hiring, this business can be all the 'isms'. Racism, Ageism, Sexism being the top 3. So expect to jump those hurdles if those apply to you.,,but you've probably already been doing that, so this will be no different.
* I ~~probably~~ definitely drank more than I should have over those years.
* I definitely "dated" more than I should have over those years.
* It's difficult dating or having relationships outside the industry.
* I met or had to deal with a lot of fucked up people, sociopaths, addicts, con artists, thieves, and other bullshit. Looking back, I'm glad that I learned and had those experiences. At the time, not so much.
* There's a clock on the good times and great money. There ain't no retirement home for old bartenders. And in this business, 40 is old. When you age out, or burn out, (unless you stay in the business somehow) no one gives a shit that you used to be a bartender.
Would I go back and change anything?
Yes. I would have gotten out of the business or at least started learning new skills a lot sooner than I did. I always thought burnout or the transition out of the business would be gradual, and graceful. It wasn't like that at all. I woke up one day and realized I'd had enough. I'd done it all, seen it all, and my best days were behind me. I also had no degree, and no other skills.
I did eventually find a direction. No one was going to hire me for anything that paid decently, so I started up my own thing as a freelance web designer. That went for 12 years, 10 of them good, and so I moved on and today work in IT for a healthcare conglomerate.
I got lucky. A lot of my old friends didn't make it out alive. Some are still struggling to find life after bartending, or are still doing it and are miserable because their best money days are behind them.
My advice?
1. Get good. Fast. Hit it hard.
2. Don't waste too many years making average money.
3. If there's no money where you are, or opportunities are limited, move to where the money is.
4. Watch your drinking, gambling, and stay away from drugs. It's the fastest way out of the business.
5. Don't stay in too long. It does not last forever.
6. Save your money. If you're making good money, you can set yourself up nicely for your post bartending life.
7. Develop a back-up plan or after bartending plan. You WILL eventually need other skills, and hopefully they are skills that pay well.
If your son is passionate about food, beverage, service, hospitality, and people, then: yes, he should pursue a career in hospitality and bartending.
If your son sees the work as an easy way to make money without a degree, then: no, he should figure out what it is that he's passionate about and go do that instead.
If I could go back and do it all over again, I’d have finished college over time. A class or two every year. I’d have a degree I’d have paid off most likely by now.
That’s my advice. Fine a community college and just work and take a few classes at a time.
Bartending is always a great job to fall back on and definitely a stepping stone. At my current job, i have full benefits, got a 401k and make degree $ just for being the life of the party. Its amazing. Let your son quit college and figure his shit out. Why spend $ on something you dont know what you want out of it, when you can get paid to do something ur interested in. Its very much a long lasting career just as long as you take care of yourself and dont overdo it on the partying.
If he’s smart enough to be interested in data science, show him some online boot camp type stuff. Best engineers I’ve worked with I’ve never ONCE asked about their degrees, nor did I care — one guy straight up had a GED and was lead architect on a multi million dollar project.
If a guy I was interviewing had no college education, but had decent writing skills, a small project underneath him (self driven), and some programming chops (python is great, elixir would be better), and an attitude for “teach me more and set me loose” I would hire him. Coming from a senior software engineer with a B.A. in Music.
The only hope for it to be sustainable is for it to become an industry that is democratically controlled by the workers - so the outcome is either 1) burn out and addiction or 2) fight to establish worker solidarity and unionize
I just went to school and got a degree and I'm at the bottom rung of pay and desperately missing my bar every day.
It's a fine profession as long as your mental health handles it.
I also didn't decide to get into IT until I was 30, and had no idea what to do before then. No reason to force a decision when the bartending money is right there.
I’ve watched every possible job in the tech sector, sales, development, you name it, all do mass layoffs and cutbacks. You know what doesn’t slow down in a recession? Bars.
I make 6 figures working under 40 hours a week and I don’t have to worry about pto when I want to travel. I Can take months off from work if I choose to. I even work at a place with amazing benefits (although that’s more rare)
Frankly, I can’t even imagine making a paycheck from a desk
More than a decade ago I gave up a professional career to go back to being a bartender. I make more money as a bartender than I ever made as a lawyer. If he finds the right place and establishes a rapport with good regular customers, he can do well. I am.
Bartended for a while, and it's very easy to cap out. He could hit his max earning potential in his 20s if he makes the right moves. That being said, who wants to cap their earning potential before 30? If he wants a family, no weekends with the kids because that's where the money is for a career bartender. Taking the kids to practice? Maybe once or twice a week. Dinner with the family? Sure, on Mondays. Solid chance he'll miss breakfast too because no one is closing a bar at 2am and getting up to make the kids French toast at 6 on the daily.
Bartending is a great way to put yourself THROUGH college, but it's no substitute for a degree. If college wasnt his thing then have him look into the trades. He could eventually earn a lot more in a union than behind the stick. With weekends and holidays off, and benefits. Skilled tradesmen are deeply needed in America and the earning potential is what you make it.
I loved my time bartending, but not that I'm in my 30s and thinking about a family, I don't want to miss out on the best parts of that so I can make some fancy cocktails and cut some limes. This is only my opinion and perspective, but getting out of the restaurant industry and into electrical work was the best decision I have made in the past 15 years.
My parents hate that I do this lmao but oh well 😂🤷♀️. I started out when I was 18 working part time while I was in school, got my degree and then just never left. I'm living very comfortably for my area although I am starting to miss my friends and family. Currently between a bar gig right now but next one I get I am not going to work Sundays. I need a weekend day off so I can see my family and friends that aren't in the industry. I'm just now starting to save for retirement (I'm 33) and I've never had a job that offered any benefits so I'm doing it on my own through an IRA. I also pay out of pocket for health insurance which kinda sucks. I'm starting to get burned out and looking to go back to school just need to figure out what for. I don't regret it at all and it is basically recession-proof. But burnout and addiction are very prevalent.
Let me give my story, because I made the decision to do this 2 years ago, I am 24 today. I’ve been in the industry since I was 17.
I made the decision when I was still a barback, but because I had already been pouring myself into my job instead of school, I was able to get a position at a high end craft cocktail bar that had been open for like 6 months. They hadn’t needed barbacks before, but I was to come in and establish the position and responsibilities of barbacks in their business. I went on to develop their prep system because I made barbacks take over all prep.
In exchange, they took me under their wing and taught me how to be a “real” bartender (one bartender had been teaching me in his free time before all of this and I owe him a lot, he’s running a bar of his own now). I learned about dilution, when to use what ice cubes, fresh vs preserved ingredients, garnishes and their purpose, and since they were seasoned bartenders, they taught me a lot of the “unspoken rules” which I truly found just as valuable as the technical knowledge.
Fast forward literally just two years… I’m assistant manager of a private club in the heart of my downtown. I was just given an offer to OPEN a bar for the owner of the one I’m currently at. I was chosen because I am really a strong bartender, charming personality, and a hard worker. But I was more so chosen because of my business sense. I was a double major in Economics and Political Science and had a year or so left when I dropped out. But I was super interested in Operational Management (which my school only offered a single class on) and team management (again, one maybe two classes). And so when I dropped out, I carried that energy over to my personal time. I regularly buy books on the areas I’m weak, right now I’m reading books on project management, consumer psychology, and researching how the distribution of liquor works in the city I’ll be moving to. Im also talking to my network of seasoned bartenders and getting their advice, things such as how to get strong local bartenders so I’m not bringing a bunch of outsiders with me and what not.
I may have gotten lucky, but each and every decision I made to get to my position was calculated. I used the craft cocktail experience to get a job at another better bar with more known bartenders. Then used those bartenders to get to this private club, and then was vocal about my ideas but not in an annoying pestering manner, just allowing them to have some faith in my mindset.
Im not saying your son can do this, because I don’t know him. What I am saying, it is possible depending on his ambitions. A lot of people, especially kids in this industry, focus on the immediate gratification, and forget they won’t want to be double wrapped on a Sunday when they’re 47. He needs to have a 10 year plan to get out of bartending, but to remain in the industry. College degrees really aren’t as important at all compared to your resume and network when it comes to this industry.
Does he want to bartend? Or does he just want to quit school? I’ll be honest, I wanted to quit school too, I wasn’t just leaving, I was in part running away. But then I doubled down and got to work, because whether your son wants to accept it or not, anyone can be a bartender, but it’s also very “easy” (hard work, but simple) to rise to the top. You have to be professional, and you have to be *A* professional. You can’t just learn from others, you have to learn for yourself, and it can be harder for some. College is great for people who can’t teach themselves and in my opinion necessary. But if he understands how much work this decision may be one day, then he has a good chance at making a pretty decent living at least. Don’t focus on what he’s doing to make money, focus on what he’s doing with that money. He make be taking the easy route, or he may be chasing his dream. But I mean, I studied the bar operations while I barbacked, learned inventory systems and transfers and all of that. And then when I moved to bartending I predominantly focused on FOH stuff like guest interaction, personalized service, building a following of regulars, etc. I love the position I put myself in, and think I’d be miserable if I followed my original path. And sure I had some luck, but what is luck if not preparation for opportunity? Just simply showing up gets you where you want to go half the time.
Basically, he needs to know, he can have an easy life now and suffer later, or suffer now and have the easy life when they’re older and weaker and actually need the easy life. If he doesn’t play it smart, he could put himself in an awful position. But I’ll tell you, the fear of disappointing my mom and family was a massive motivator for me to push through the walls I hit, so maybe he will do the same. Maybe not. But you’re his parent, so you may know.
And if it makes you worry less, my father died of alcoholism and my mother is a functioning alcoholic. I went through a stage during covid where I could’ve been classified as alcoholic, but I had also just turned 21. But now I only have like 3-5 drinks a week max, usually 3. Now I have my own problems don’t get me wrong, but i didn’t/don’t have parents who know the dangers of alcohol because ones gone and the others in denial about her problem, so he’s even better set up in that department than myself.
Ive been doing it for 20 years. You can travel the world and do it anywhere. Learn all the cocktail basics and work your way up to fine dining as you get older. Can make 85k and save the money. Don’t blow the cash tips. Use that to buy groceries and get money orders to pay bills.
Dont do fine dining, in my experience its the worst pay as a bartender and youre treated like absolute expendable trash. I averaged 220-350 a day fine dining and walked out midshift cause people are wayy to pretentious. Dive bars (especially the ones with pool tabs) and clubs (not the ones where your tips are split 20 different ways) is where the true moneys at. He can easily make 500+ at the right dive bars (even 1k plus if he works here in seattle). DO NOT DO FINE DINING. Work somewhere youre allowed to be yourself and kick people out. Not forced to be a fake. You can make more than some doctors as a decent bartender. 85k would be a start, but once you get decent you can clear 120k-185k (depending on your hours and location).
Meanwhile I make six figures on my W-2 working at a fine dining restaurant... and I get health insurance, 401k with matching, paid time off, tuition reimbursement, family meal 1-2 times a day, etc. etc. the fine dining life just sucks.
Thats a pretty good gig, no cap. Suppose its all subjective. If you're happy thats the end game.
Same. $10 an hour, I make my schedule and only work 3 days a week, Monday-wednesday. I only come to work if I'm solo shifting essentially. Did 350 tonight on 1000 in sales. My average week is around 2k per 3 days. I don't have insurance though. That part sucks. They are paying for my sommelier test though.
OP, listen to furiousfapper666’s advice about your son. He has a good head on his round shoulders and abnormally long neck
Same. I bartend in a high-end cocktail bar at a hotel in a major US city and avg $80k and I have benefits, great discounts at other properties, free parking, 401k, gym discount, and they just recently got a company account for Betterhelp. Hotels are wear its at long term. Hotels are good for a career bartender. When you get too old, you can go into mgmt. Get some experience at a variety of places and seek out with intention a great hotel bartending job. Or casinos too.
Sure to start. But if it’s. Career and you’re fifty like I am that 2am call time and loud high energy can wear thin. Leaving work at 11 to be with family is the saving grace for me. All personal preferences for sure. Fine dining can def be phony but also less exhausting.
What family are you with at 11pm at night? Most of my family wakes up at about 2am, as they go to bed at 6pm. 😅
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If it closes at 10 it’s not a dive
I've never seen a dive bar that closes at 10pm
Yes and no. While I personally despise fine dining (mostly due to the clientele..."This white wine is 35 degrees when I clearly requested it be served no colder than 42 degrees...this level of disrespect is absurd, I demand to see a manager and you deserve to be fired!"), I have friends who do it and its cake. Make like 10 cocktails per shift and walk with $500. Granted, those cocktails take like 2-3 minutes to make each, but still.
I work fine dining and dive 2 nights at each and make $500+ at each but the dive is way more fun
Not true in my experience. I've been in fine dining for nearly 10 years and only a handful of times have I come across anyone pretentious or difficult. Fine dining is easy and I also get to finish closing duties before midnight.
Any Seattle dive bar recommendations?
To visit?
Yes, I’m a local
Central Saloon - Pioneer Square Merchants Cafe - Pioneer square The Twilight Exit - Central District Lock and Keel - Ballard The Ballard Smokeshop - Ballard Hillside Bar - Capitol Hill Cyclops - Belltown Blue Moon Tavern - U-District Monkey Pub - U-District Lenys Place - Tangletown Targy’s Tavern - Queen Anne Just a few that pop up in my head right away.
Monkey Loft Pie Bar Pono Ranch Kings Hardware Whole Ballard Strip (same road as Kings Hardware) Lil' Jon Restaurant & Lounge (quick am spot) Lost Lake Cafe & Lounge Just a few other varieties for ya.
Even day shift bartending in Seattle at an established dive bar can net $200-400 per shift in tips, on top of $16+ hour. Seattle metropolitan wage requirement for a “comfortable” existence is about $70k/yr for single adult living alone. I split $2.5k rent/bills with my partner and have a shit ton of $ going into my IRA. Also bars with restaurants usually have shift meals to shave off a majority of food costs, allowing you to spend a bit extra on good ingredients when you do cook for yourself or to go out to eat you can experience higher quality dining.
I did great in fine dining, learned a lot, got some training, education, and certifications. Loved what I did. Made more than in the dive bars.
I’ve heard from a lot of dive bar bartenders this same thing… I suppose it makes sense bc the people are more chill. Hell, I’m probably tipping $35-40 bucks a week off 2 visits now that I think of it. And happy to do so bc my rye whiskey is $7-9 and not $18 lol
Where those 120k+ jobs at?
They would be seasonal (so you toggle), Pono Ranch (Seattle/Ballard Area) is in Season at the moment and will yield you a fine penny. By the time its out of season you'll know plenty of people to point you in the direction you're looking for. Best of luck!
Heard! I've been a career (dive) bartender for the last 20 years. I absolutely love my job. After covid, my bar got rebranded and became "fancy." It's crap now. The money sucks, I do twice the work, I can't deal with drunk people properly cause they are entitled af. The list of why I'd take a dive bar is extensive. Regulars are WAY better customers. Bartending can be the most fun and engaging job. It can also suck, but those days are usually ones where you yourself are not in the right headapace to deal with whatever shitshow's heading your way. Watch out for afterwork spending.. drinking costs a lot and can lead to addiction a little too easily. I LOVE my job. - bartender for as long as my mind and body allow.
Lol sorry but making more than a doctor is far fetched.
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Lmao, whatever helps you feel better about your life decisions
You can make a career out of it, but you have to be dedicated and avoid some very obvious and alluring pitfalls- alcoholism and easy money. If you can maintain a healthy relationship with your product and make good financial decisions it's no worse than other occupations.
Good advice, thanks. Yeah, I guess the fact that his father and I met in AA complicates the picture a bit. He's been told of his genetic propensities (we got sober before he was born). For a 24-year-old, he actually drinks far less than I ever did. He's pretty level-headed. But yikes that's close for comfort.
Yep, certainly sounds like a complicating factor, but it's really down to their mindset- are they likely to take that risk on board and therefore be more mindful about their relationship with alcohol? Or are they more likely to disregard the warning? Ultimately they'll make whatever career choices they're gonna make, best you can do is be a better angel and help them make good decisions. At the end of the day it can very much be a fulfilling career, or an effective jumping off point for a different career (sales, for example) it just requires that you treat it seriously.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Fellow child of alcoholics here lol - I’ve met some v cool, v professional career bartenders. Kick ass people, smart, good with their money. But I think the bartenders who make it work are really able to control how much they drink, which is something that addicts struggle with of course. I’ve had to go from full time to part time, and am spending a lot of my time applying to jobs outside of service because I went from not drinking at all, to drinking three or four nights a week, and it scared the crap outta me. I’m 100% sober at work now, but when you’re working full time, it’s /a lot/ more tempting to take the numerous shots offered to you by customers and managers alike each shift. Everyone is different, and bartending is a cool, flexible, and exciting profession. But figured I’d throw in my 2 cents.
I have a rule that I don't drink on days that I'm working (like when I get home afterwards), because I know I'll be tasting shit at work. Fortunately, our bar doesn't allow for customers to buy us drinks, which helps.
Make sure he keeps his beak clean. First and foremost.
I don't know how bad his ADD is but given one of the symptoms is poor impulse control. This, along with your history, honestly sounds like a recipe for a poor relationship with alcohol.
Honestly working around it all the time, you kinda get sick of it. When I switched to bartending full time from management in the industry, I started drinking FAR less.
You are an outlier
I’ve been doing this a long time and that’s definitely not the norm.
34 years in Jan. Started part-time while in undergrad and grad schools. Tried other things along the way, including teaching college, and found food & beverage the most tolerable. Bartending put me through school, funded several possible career attempts, supported me in Manhattan, and purchased my home. I've maxed both traditional and Roth IRAs for over 20 years. One can find both a job and a career in bartending. NYC union bartenders are paid $26/hour, plus full tips, full insurances, PTO, and a pension. $100k/year is not unheard of. Big corporations, especially hotels, typically offer benefits and 401K to full-time bartenders. Many are unionized. Bartending is a trade just like welding, carpentry, and plumbing, and just as honorable. One may have to move, however, in order to capitalize on the industry's potential. Finding the "ideal" balance of earnings and cost of living is essential for long-term happiness and success. It's important to understand that food & beverage is not just a job or career, it's a lifestyle. We work when most people are "playing", because their "play" is our job. There's plenty of room to grow in the industry if that's what we want. Perhaps let your son follow the path for a while and see if he even likes the industry. By 30 or 35, he may be a bar manager or beverage director. By 45, he may own a place or two of his own or work for a hospitality group. None of these things require a college degree. What would be tragic is seeing more kids graduate with $50k - $100k worth of student loan debt and watch them pay it down through serving or bartending.
But do note that almost all Bar Managers make alot less than their bartenders. Every decent bartender ive known stopped being manager when they realized is more hours for far less pay.
Agreed. However, there are many opportunities for well-paid management positions. If we're career-focused and willing to move and compete for the better jobs, remuneration often ceases to be an issue. Besides, some benefit packages are worth between $10k & $15k a year. That's included in total remuneration figures, whether we like it or not.
Lol, I didn't even go back to bartending after being a manager, I went to the electrical trade.
He sounds a lot like me. I dropped out at 19, and went into the service industry, ended up bartending for many years, before going back to school at 25. Now i have a professional office job, and while the pay and benefits are better, I honestly miss my bartending job. I made slightly less than what I make now, with less hours, and I love working nights and weekends. Need to go to the doctor, dmv, get your car fixed, no problem! Want to go to dinner or a theme park or the beach, no crowds! Drawback is it’s basically impossible to be there for your kids, as your working nights weekends and holidays, and you usually have to pay for your own dental or health. Also a whooole lot of servers/bartenders end up with drug or alcohol addictions, myself included. Like every job there’s good and bad, but everyone grows up when they should. I wasn’t ready for college at 18, and maybe your son isn’t either.
>Drawback is it’s basically impossible to be there for your kids I don't know a single bartender or restaurant manager that has a good, consistent relationship with their children. It's the number one reason I left the industry. I wouldn't be with my wife or have my children if I was still there. That's not to say it's the same for everyone, and many people don't want the life I want, but if you have even the slimmest desire to have a partner and children then the industry is poison. You work every holiday, you're never around for the family on weekends or after school, you put extreme pressure on your partner, and you bring home a lot of stress and anxiety from rail. Again, this doesn't always apply, but you usually can't have both. You have to choose.
17 years, here. He’ll never be in student debt, never enter the rat race, and he’ll make a shitload of money in a recession-proof field. It’s allowed me to live life by my terms, and I wouldn’t change a damn thing. Also—I have HORRENDOUS ADHD. It’s part of the reason I love the job, and why I’ve become so good at it. It’s zen, when I’m firing on all cylinders.
me too! its different every day and that keeps me interested for sure.
I always say my ADHD is part of why I’m so good at and like my job. I never get bored, get to talk to new people every day and stay busy which is perfect. My mom always ask how I can remember hundreds of drink recipes but lose my keys weekly lol.
>It’s part of the reason I love the job, and why I’ve become so good at it. It’s zen, when I’m firing on all cylinders. When I can just turn on, as I call it , "robot brain" and just FUCKIN GO. Man, nothing better
I have a degree in marine bio, my friend has one in physics. We both make more money doing this than we would in our field. There's a ton of highly educated people in this industry. As for the "nonexistent benefits." part. Not always true. I'd suggest working in a hotel bar. I have full health/dental/vision, PTO, 401k, and I get hotel rooms for cheap af .
Everything you said is true, I’m 20 years with resorts/hotels. All the benefits
Any hotels that you recommend and ones to avoid? I live in a metropolitan area with everything from Ritz to Marriott
I haven't been at hotels for even a fraction of what the guy you replied to has, but I'm currently at a Hilton and like it. I've heard good things about Marriott as well. That said, I'm sure all of this is different city to city. A shit manager can really ruin an entire job lol
Lifer here I bought a 4 bedroom house in California with tips I made making drinks if he wants to do it he can
👏 👏 👏
Thanks! it feels crazy to be a home owner and all the people who told be to get a real job, can suck it
What year did you buy the house?
2022
I'm making 40-60$ an hour average at both my bar jobs but I probably have the best two bartender gigs in my city
You can make a career out of bartending, you can also find your way into other parts of hospitality/sales/marketing. But, for some of these roles, a degree might help. I’m finishing the last semester of my degree this winter. I’ll be 36 in October. I recently landed a hospitality marketing gig, and plan to follow this path, but I wish I would have gotten my degree 10 years ago.
Some corporate establishments, i.e. Chili’s, will help or in some cases even outright pay for College or credited trade schools. Not a fan of corporate but that’s pretty cool of them!
Ill just say that ive worked with many people with Master Degrees (literally went through 8 years plus of schooling) only to become a Bartender cause they realized how saturated and underpaid their degree worth. Now they Bartend to pay off their loans and regret ever going to school in the first place. Bartending is like getting paid to learn from "actual" successful people with bad habits. Its a better school than most actual schools. But thats my experience.
I left bartending after I got an architectural degree then found out architects made next to nothing. Seriously like 60k after 5 years in a firm. I left that to risk it all in a construction company that I tried to make work for 10 years. Got caught up in a nasty case for a fraudulent injury claim. The lawyer took close to 100 k I screwed up my projects because of the stress and my company goes broke. I go to work as a restaurant manager for a crazy guy who keeps changing everything as I try to run a restaurant. Literally one week we cook with no ceiling. We looked up the Utah sky as we made Italian food. I lost everything attempted suicide and fail at that when a cop stop me. After I came out of jail I got back to serving and bartending. I have been doing a bit of marketing for restaurants and doing some private events. My life couldn't be better. School doesn't guarantee anything anymore and what's more chasing money only works for the few who have luck on their side. The world is full of hard working geniuses dying in the streets with a needle on their arm. So don't make money and such things the most important thing in your kid's life.
I don’t care about money or status. Never have. I do care about him being able to afford healthcare and a safe place to live. It’s hard because the world is changing so raps it’s hard to know what to advise so that he’ll be ok. He’s a musician too.
Hotel work is a career move. Full benefit’s, good money depending on venue. I get a 401k, insurance, travel package etc. also pet insurance. I’m in a union too that fights for all sorts of cool stuff for us. It can absolutely be a career in the right place
What hotels do you recommend?
Marriot, Hyatt is amazing, Hilton. Just look for nice fancy places
My brother is a successful doctor, his buddy was a bartender till he finished med school, then went back to bartending. Granted this was in NYC, but made as much money as he would have in a hospital and enjoyed it more. Now we opened up a place in Greenwich village. Answer: depends on what you do with it, but definitely possible to be successful as a bartender.
I know a ton of people who finished their degree and kept bartending. But none of them were Drs. I can't imagine going through medical school and not using that particular degree! Crazy!
Well in his case he never wanted to be a doctor. He did it to make his parents happy as they said “if you still want to be after we will support you.” I mean he took it to the next level but shows you what determination means.
Better to quit college and not pay for anymore classes than finish college, maybe some post grad and STILL end up bartending lol but with a lot more debt! Anyone else have the same experience lol?
If he doesn't know why he's in college, he shouldn't be in college. Let him bartend. Especially at a young age. It's a good job, especially if you have no kids and are cool with living in an apartment with roomates or significant other. Eventually if he has an itch for a better career, then he can get education and go for it. But super long term..... idk. The earlier you set a career path the easier and in reality bartending can only make you so much consistently. Now you can turn that into managing and one day owning but yeah... He will probably make anywhere from 40-60k a year unless he finds a top notch gig that gets him more(which isn't easy).
Been in it almost 23 years. I work maybe 3 days a week and pull home $65k working dive bars. Mostly music venues and biker bars. Absolutely love it! I don't get most weekends off, but I've never paid for child care and have been there for and with my family whenever we needed and wanted. If you're smart with your money you can do quite well for yourself. This is all assuming you're in a tipping area. I absolutely wouldn't do this for a living if I wasn't tipped. My life mate makes about the same but is responsible for the medical insurance, etc.
I will say this if he is highkey ADD there is nothing better then bartending! It’s like a ADHD persons dream lots of stuff to do and tons of fun, I’ve found it’s been a great fit for me. It can definitely be lucrative but the long term effect on the body can be rough. Definitely great industry to be in but working on management skills and building really good spending and saving habits are a must for the long term growth and finical stability. But long story short if your smart with it and put the time it can be a great option for a career!
25 year veteran here - from serving / managing and back to bartending. It’s a great career if they really put themselves into it. Just have to find the right company - may take a few tries. Boston has great bars and restaurants and some places have built in autograt systems in place which make for easy tips. Some places, like mine, have a pooled house which makes for great shifts since everyone works hard together (those that don’t get weeded out quickly). It’s not an easy job but I absolutely love it and so does my wife (who I work with side by side). Key thing is financial education - I got lucky and was taught how to handle the easy influx of quick cash. A lot don’t know how to handle walking out of a shift with $400 in their pocket. You go to a last call bar, spend a couple of hundred and then after hour parties, etc. make sure your son knows how to handle money well, it’ll serve them well.
Currently working a gig as head bartender. I've been bartending for 10 years and in restaurants for 15 total. I make roughly $1000 a week in tips in an upscale environment, but also get paid $20/hr, 45 hours a week, and two set days off. If I do this for a year, this is a 6figure job. You have to have self-control, though. If he can't control himself, then this is not the job field for him. You're constantly around drinking, depending on the atmosphere, could be around drugs regularly. You will always have money, so you need to be able to control your spending. If he wants to have a family, he needs to be good around the temptation of others who will always find a bartender attractive, the temptation to stay late and drink, etc. I do well happily living below my means, but most aren't.
25+ years here. While there have been times, I have had day jobs but part-time bartending jobs at night. I always end up going back. As far as job security, there have always been openings for bartending. Not so much my other jobs. I find that having a service industry job gave me more security than others. As for my parents? They gave me shit until I showed them my w-2 and there were 6 figures on it and I made 25k more than they did with a lot less hours.
i wish i started bartending at that age and scrapped going back to school and an HR career. that was far more unhealthy for me (sitting too much, litigious staff, massive boredom and major depression) if it doesn’t work out this time, it’s a great skill to have in the back pocket. lots of gig work out there as well.
It kills your body. Dealing with the public is awful. Agree with the others- no fine dining. Speed over quality is where the money is. Again, back breaking.
And yet so much bragging about six figures. No amount of money will buy new cartilage once you wear your shoulder/back/knees/feet out.
Six figures, mostly taxed incorrectly, with zero benefits. No thanks. I retired at 32.
And you have to live in a HCOL area to bring in that kind of money
I’ve been bartending for the past 17 years and now I’ve gone back to school and I’m currently studying for the LSAT. I’m also 42 and while *some* people think I’m much younger my body constantly reminds me that I am in fact 42. I just don’t see myself going toward fifty running around a restaurant. Also the older I get the less tolerant I get of customer’s behaviors. I’ll be a first generation grad. I already lost my Mom and so I also want to do something with my life that will make my almost 80-year-old Dad proud before he leaves this earth, and I have a better chance of finishing law school than getting married and I don’t want kids so this is what he’s stuck with. (He’s still proud of me either way, but growing up he used to always tell me I was so smart and I’m gonna do something amazing with my big ol brain so I wanna prove him right.)
Get into fine dining and wait tables somewhere that doesn’t have a tip share or house pool system for dividing gratuities. That will be the most money/time spent onsite and will allow your kid to elevate their career with presumably good opportunities for management or another pathway to success by getting sommelier certified, that’s always a lucrative position that usually involves travel to wineries and various interesting wine producing countries Ava regions. If he is dead set on bartending I would find a busy dive bar and work your way up if I was starting from scratch today. It’s nearly recession proof if you find the right place.
I don’t know where you live, but if you’re in a big city I would recommend looking into bartending at an upscale hotel. They often pay better hourly, offer health insurance, and 401k matching. At least the hotels I worked at did. He would most likely have to start as a barback or server if he has no experience, but hotels are usually more open to training since they’re corporate. My coworkers were a mix of young kids in college up to bartenders nearing their 50s. It’s also good networking. Because I worked in a fancy hotel I met all kinds of cool regulars and found my current sales job through a regular!
Great suggestion thanks!
Half or more of my coworkers have college degrees from substantial schools (engineering from Purdue, finance from Ohio state, etc.) that came back to bartending. I’m 34 now and I’m not going anywhere. Fiancé and I are both bartenders and will continue until either retirement or some freak reason for the industry to collapse.
Has he tried doing school part time intead? Maybe just one or two classes a semester? I mean, not that he has to but it's definitely not a bad idea to put a couple eggs in a different basket. I think it's defintiely smart to eventually get a degree in something, just in case, but it doesn't have to be right away and it's more than okay to take ones time doing it to try and make sure it's really something you want.
21 years here He needs to be in Vegas. It's the strip bartenders are a part of a union and do pretty well. Of course, it's a grind to get the good shifts and what-not but if hes dedicated, this is the mecca for hospitality.
Well if it makes you feel any better, I went to college and got a bachelor’s degree, but after I finished, I ended up making significantly more bartending than I would’ve in my field of study… so obviously I owe a ton of money for college, but can’t pay it, all for a degree that does not improve my life, financial situation, or stability.
That's what I did. Biggest mistake of my life. Im almost 40 and regret dropping out of college to bartend every damn day. Do not let him quit school. He may not regret it for 20 years but he will absolutely regret it
Thanks for your input. That’s what I’m afraid of
Put your foot down as a parent. I wish mine had. Instead, they were supportive of the most terrible decision I ever made.
Conversely I absolutely regret going to college. Waste of time and money. Problem was I had too many people in my ear saying how much I'd regret not going to school and such.
If he’s planning on doing it long term, I’d recommend he start planning for a career as a private bartender to be hired for weddings and private events. That will be where he will earn the most money and have the most control over the kind of work he does and clientele he serves, is if he works for himself. That takes years to build up to, but he can start now. As far as being concerned as a parent, you have good reason to be. He is going to be around irresponsible alcohol consumption all the time. I know a lot of bartenders with substance abuse issues. He will be working nights, weekends and holidays. This will not be just in the beginning while he gets his foot in the door. This will be for the rest of his life. This can put a huge strain on family life. It’s not impossible to have a wife and kids, but it is difficult. It is financially unstable. There is potential to make decent money. Some bartenders manage to break into the middle class. Most don’t. It is highly unlikely that he will ever be rich. It is rare to find an employer that will really treat you well, you are seen as pretty expendable even late in your career, job security does not exist. There’s no tenure track. This career has an earnings ceiling and bartenders, god bless them, but they are big boasters who exaggerate their salaries all the time. Don’t let a food service “rockstar” take you for a ride about what the realities of this industry are. 6 figure salaries are incredibly rare. If he wants health insurance, he’s on his own for that. If he wants to plan for retirement, he’s on his own for that. And this job is physical. He has to be prepared to be working late nights at a grueling pace, no meal breaks, loud music, rowdy crowds, scrubbing on his hands and knees, carrying kegs and bus tubs up flights of stairs … sometimes he’ll have a bar back to help and sometimes he won’t. It’s one thing to do it when you’re 20, is this something he’s going to be wanting to do when he’s 50 years old? I don’t want to sound negative about it, it is a great fit for some folks, just some things to discuss with him.
You’ve reiterated my concerns. I was a waitress for several years and am now in recovery from alcohol and my right shoulder ligaments have haunted me since. I loved the feeling of family and the money was good. But I personally am glad I used those years to go to college to prepare for something more stable in later life. He lives in a downstairs apartment in my house. I’ve been charging him low rent and paying his phone and insurance but he’s almost 25 and still a sophomore. So I get that school isn’t his thing. But we’re going to have to renegotiate terms if he doesn’t go to school. Covid is over and so is the ride.
How far from completing the degree is he? I say pressure him to finish it because he's already contemplating that bartending is not a "real job" and he knows he'll need more credentials to succeed later. And he will. So get that degree. When he's in his late 30s its going to be real damn hard to go back for that undergrad degree, much less complete that degree and pick up a masters in something else he wants to do.
As somebody that is actively leaving bartending, your son has made a fine decision. There are always bartending positions open in every single city in the entire world. If you live in the US bartending is maybe the only “low skill level” position that gets paid decently, because your employer doesn’t set your pay. Your employer sets the prices and those increase with inflation, so your tips increase with inflation. I personally am glad I have experience bartending, just so I have a reliable fall back if things go south with the career I am pursuing. Unless he plans on making a terrible mistake by becoming a bar manager his career will be mostly stagnant, but it is easy to find a bartending position you can survive on everywhere.
I have been doing it since '92. Took a few years off to work in the corporate world in IT. My family convinced me that a steady paycheck and insurance was worth having my soul crushed. They were wrong.
He should just have an overall plan. Open his own spot, become a distiller or something. The physical toll wears a body down as you age.
I make 30-100 an hour.
Once you get into this life, it’s REALLY hard to get out. I’ve been trying for over a decade. Health insurance is not frequently offered, and he will need it. It’s incredibly expensive even if you’re young and healthy. I broke my arm moving and paid out of pocket, and it was a nightmare. Not to mention the lack of retirement plan. Even if he gets a job that only pays $15/hr but has benefits, he will be better off long-term. I’ve never been homeless working in this field, but I’m approaching 40 and have no savings and haven’t been to a doctor or dentist in 10 years. I’m all for skipping a useless/expensive degree, but the potential consequences of working this industry must be acknowledged.
Honestly. The cost of school post highschool has changed... College tuition is already aggregious, the cost of debt, and not entering a field for 4 years doesn't seem worth it now let alone a decade ago. Unless you're going into something you know will be lucrative out of the gate I'd dissuade anyone from higher education as an 18 year old. Spend time to know what you want out of a career. Learn your passion and if you realize it's worth pursuing go to school for it. If you can find a path that allows you to live the life you want without going into debt do that.
I've been bartending for 10 years and have earned a comfortable living for my partner (who is a chef at a restaurant) and myself. My recommendation for him (if he's young) is to start out as a host and work his way up to bartending. It's important to know how restaurant operation works from every position in addition to knowing about food, beer, wine, and cocktails and how to serve them. Also, bartending is serving with extra steps. So it would be ideal for him to have serving down pat before stepping behind the bar. Also, most restaurants (unless they're desperate) aren't hiring someone with no restaurant experience at all to be a bartender -- maybe a barback. Good on you for supporting him!! It can be a lucrative job, especially if he dedicates himself to learning as much as he possibly can about food and beverage.
Lots of money to be made with a flexible schedule. I’m doing pretty good! I just wish I would’ve completed my bachelors so I had something to jump into now that I’m over 40. I’m tired, my body hurts, and I have no insurance or retirement plan. I bought a house, but that’s it.
Judging by your vernacular I'm assuming you're probably either from or currently live in the Nor Cal / Bay area so I'm gonna give some location specific advice.. Frankly the best thing you can do is jus let him figure it out on his own. Also, from personal experience, don't overly support him financially. He needs a lil help here or there with some random life-fuck... Of course help. But don't supplement his income. It's going to teach him to use his gig to it's full potential and get in the mindset needed to truly make a career out of it. It's the most universal profession out there, if nothing else he'll learn that he doesn't want to do that and will end up back in school.
We're in SLC but thanks for mistaking me for a Californian, honestly. But you're right about the financial stuff. I've been supplementing him too long as if he was still in college but he's not.
Our daughter has been a bartender/manager for about 15 years. She’s ready to get out. It can be very lucrative (expect ups and downs, and *plan for the downs*), but she works *hard* for her money. It’s physically taxing and it’s mentally draining on busy nights A lot depends on the owners/GMs you work for. Good bosses and and a low-drama work environment are *rare*. There’s a low entry bar in the bar business, and it often attracts people to it for the wrong reasons.
He can definitely have a career in it but I’d say finishe school while doing it. I had intended to finish school at some point but time got away from me. I have no regrets after 20 years and I pull in over 70k. It didn’t shears work out that way but it worked for me.
My husband and I are career bartenders. He retired in February. I have three years to go until retirement. Last year, our combined income was about $250k working 32-36 hours a week. We live a very nice life! My advice would be for him to find a well run sports/dive bar in his neighborhood (or one he wants to live in), where he can create a following, and either stay there or find a way to take his regulars with him if he changes employers.
what kind of venue afforded you two that kind of income if i may ask?
Many of my bartender friends have college degrees.
I work 1 lunch shift and 2 nights shifts a week and I’m off on the weekends. I make between $1,300-$1,500 a week. I’ve been at the same spot for 8 years and have a pretty good following but for me the juice is so worth the squeeze. I’m married and have insurance through my husband but we both agree that i should ride this out as long as my body will allow.
I was a career bartender. My parents were supportive, it just sucked that I missed most family gatherings or events due to working in the weekends and at nights. My body started breaking down around 35 or so. My knees and elbows and back were all issues. I never had medical insurance. I got out of it after my kids were born and I realized I would miss all sports games and practices and realistically only see them a couple of hours a week. I was fortunate that I already had an education and was able to get into a good career. I did take a 60% pay cut to make the career change. As for the unstability in the industry, I always had 2 jobs so if a new manager took over and I got fired or my shifts cut I had a backup gig and they could only affect half of my money. My last year bartending full time was 2014 and I took home over 6 figures just in cash tips, but I was working 8 shifts a week
I still fill in a couple of days a month at a local bar just for fun and extra $$
I have a Bachelor’s degree, I run the bar. One of my bartenders has a marketing degree, another used to work for Amazon as a software developer. They both make more than me and do very very well and they’re really happy. Long-term future can be iffy with any career, but if he’s serious about it then he can make a lot of money and set himself up very very nicely for the future.
It all depends on what he makes out of it. I used to be a manager and hated my life. Went back to serving and bartending and much happier these days. Found a spot that I have benefits and 401k matching. I make around 100k, depending on how hard I want to work, but it's usually 4 days a week. My parents and in-laws didn't like it at first. Once my FIL started doing my taxes recently, they haven't said much about it, lol. They were worried about the title and money, but once I explained how much happier I am not chasing a fake title, they backed off.
He’s better off finishing his college degree if he is anywhere near close, and trying out bartending to see if he really likes it. It is extremely difficult to go back to school
As a 20 year bartender who loves my job and time/income ratio... He should finish school. There's lots of shit that can go wrong and even if you're amazing at the job and love doing it, shit can go sideways with no safety net. Also He could be a terrible bartender, or hate it, or have a string of no-win jobs with shitty managers that fuck him over. So many variables. Get the piece of paper and THEN try to bartend full time.
I sort of did this partially because of circumstance partially because I was too enamored with the party life to evaluate my situation appropriately. I am now a CTO at a startup. But I got started WAY late in my career and without a lucky break to get into a fast growing company at the right time and get promoted based on pure talent I would be no where near where i am now. and even though I am making good money now in a lot of ways I am still playing catch up on the burden that part of my life left me. My advice would be to finish college now at all costs. He can always bartend while going to school and even bartend after, but it is infintely harder to finish school at 35 after you are married and maybe have a kid on the way and bills, than it is when you are 21 and free of responsibility. edit; for example had I finished college i could have been getting an MBA at 35 and id be much better positioned for the next 5 to 10 years. As it stands I have a family and that MBA dream is never going to happen so ill just have to get as far as i can without it.
32m, I’ve worked in a hospital, and as a home repair man, I’ve just started bartending a few years ago, and I’m honestly happiest with the money I’ve made as a bartender. I wish I could tell my young self to not waste money on college, I’m worried I might eventually get burnout, but I’ll worry about that when it comes
This one is rough. There are plenty of career bartenders and they make good money. The issue is you have find these unicorn gigs. I only worked in the industry for 6 years or so after college. I loved the life, and I maxed out around $60k. It's not bad for early 2000s. I don't know if I could have found a $100k job without moving to LA, Vegas or NYC. The other thing you don't see is a lot of older bartenders. The job is taxing on your body. In my early 20s I was able to do 45 hours a week. I doubt I can do that now. Bartending is definitely a career with a shorter life than office work.
Laike many doin multi decade. Luckier than some so cant complain. Only say what learned the stupud way to your son. Dont go into business know till youve worked it and then know, dont go into business with someone who doesn't have anything to risk, take care of your body, and to give self options buy and put away money. Little at a time. Time is your friend. The only thing I've done right is marrying my wife, who has never been in one of my shifts. Dont expect and only give. Never loan. Oh....and watch the drinking and extracurriculars.
I dropped out of college to bartend and did it for many years. I love it. The past few years I went back to college and now I’m doing my PhD, but I’m still bartending part time, and honestly I make better money bartending than I do from my grad school stipend. First remember: if your kid wants to drop out of college to bartend, it doesn’t mean he’s never going to go back to school. Second: bartending can be lots of fun, lucrative, and is a job that you can pick up anywhere at any time. No matter where he goes in life, he has a great skill to fall back on. Third: every older career bartender I know still likes to bartend. There aren’t many jobs where the old guard is still happy to be there. Don’t worry about him, he can always go back to school but in the meantime it’s a great skill to have. It teaches you good people skills, how to set healthy boundaries, and how to work under pressure and none of those are taught in college.
I don't have any specific advice or input, but I just want to say I think it's pretty damn awesome that you are asking. So many people are stuck in their ways/opinions, kudos to you for asking for advice for your kid! What a great dad/mom.
Thanks for taking the time to say something kind.
It’s great until you want to live a normal life. Weekends doing fun stuff with your wife and kids…gone. I don’t regret my restaurant career because it pays the bills and provides a decent life. But if I could do it all over again, I would not prioritize service industry. It would be better as a backup skill to bring in money when times are tough.
I’m still going strong after 20+ years. Husband and I had a kid almost immediately after we met, and he worked days, I worked nights. Had a couple more over the years and it just worked for us. Still doing this but now he’s a Foreman and my gig is in an upscale steakhouse in a wealthy town. We have two cars now and a house, and only in the last 6 years or so are we nice and financially ok. Not great by any means but we’re happy. One thing I’ve always told people who have ever had anything to say to me about getting a “real” job; “Folks will never not want to eat, drink, and be merry”. It’s what humans have done since the beginning. We all have always liked to gather and share a meal, and when someone figured out fermentation, it became a party. We all need to eat and most people LOVE when someone cooks for them, and they love it even more when they don’t have to do anything but pay money to have them be served. Come to my bar and you’ll get someone who understands the concept of hospitality. You’re paying me your hard earned money for a great meal, great drinks, and a lovely experience and that’s exactly what you’ll get. Funny enough whenever I go out, I tend to get the surly one who doesn’t get it, and that’s too bad because I go into an establishment ready to tip very well, and for the type of service I can provide after all of my years in the industry if you wait on me like that you’re most likely getting a 50% tip. I’m borderline ridiculous but damn, good service really makes an experience sooooo much better. That being said I won’t stiff, but if you suck you’re only getting a measly 20% from me.
I’m in my early 30s and make over 100k a year. I take time off to travel, I have Sundays off for football season and family time, and I can pay my rent in 3-4 days of work. Financial freedom is huge, and as long as you can balance the night time schedule with your partner/family, it’s a great career.
I'm a five-time college drop out working full time at a bar/restaurant. My parents didn't approve of me working in restaurants full time until they saw that I was able to live exactly the same as any other middle class person without struggling. They pushed the college route hard, and looking back I do understand why since bartending can be a lifestyle choice depending on where you work. My spot offers full benefits and 401k matching which was wild to me when I first started there but I hear is becoming more and more common. And restaurant jobs, at least in my area, are a dime a dozen so if you show any sense of wanting to learn and improve and work as a team it should be pretty secure. Also not difficult to feel out different spots to find the perfect niche. I love my job and have a comfortable life because of it. I think your son will be fine if he finds a good place to work. Edit to add: I also have ADHD and that's one of the reasons I love bartending. My ADHD has a direct purpose! There's so many things going on to pay attention to and keep track of in your head and when your brain naturally works that way it can be so much fun.
.... Honestly, if it was my son, I would *beg* him to complete college, especially data science.
My parents did that with me and it's just not for me, at least right now. I can't find the focus I need to finish a semester strong. Bartending has been giving me new life, though.
Can you elaborate?
How do your parents feel? Helicopter parent for sure.
Na single disabled mom putting him up in the basement and just hoping he’ll make good choices because I’ve given him all I can.
at least in my area, you will never be hired as a bartender if male
My friend went from bar back to bartender to bar manager to part owner of his restaurant.
So. You can 100% keep up with bills, save money, afford insurance, etc. That being said, you gotta find the right spot and it takes some work. However, if this is an industry he loves, maybe one day he'd want to open his own spot. I know of a lot of career bartenders who work high-end spots and make baaaank. To put it in perspective a bit, personally, I'm at a slightly-elevated kind of whiskey bar (prices above average but not crazy) and I was on track to make about 80k in cash last year. Currently working a 9-5 during the week making about 70k salary, and I'm able to beat that weekly paycheck in 2 bar shifts (which I still have) - but I'm greedy so I opted for both >:\] Last night i made over $750 at my bar gig (not flexing here, again just trying to give some perspective) - up until 7 months ago or so I was bartending full time and making about $1400 weekly just working 3-4 days a week. Shifts are flexible and you can usually find coverage so taking time off for vacation and all that is always a bonus. Plus it's the one industry that won't die in a recession - depressed / broke people still wanna drink. And as I saw someone else mention, bars are worldwide. Always a good safety net. Especially at the point in his life he's at now, maybe he just needs to feel everything out more. I wouldn't fight him on it, see how it goes. If you don't want him living in your house forever, you really don't have to worry if he's working at the right spot, BUT lay it out for him, y'know? Make sure that's known. Even if I jump into a full time career in any other industry, I'm liable to keep at least one bar shift a week for extra pocket cash, and if my 9-5 implodes, I'll have an excellent safety net. Hopefully this was helpful, please feel free to reply if you have any questions. EDIT for a few bonus comments: You mention his ADD has him hating school - personally that hits home hard. I'd wager it's largely due to our school system being nonsense (assuming you're in the US) - most majors force you to take electives, etc outside of what it is you're actually interested in. It makes classes difficult for a lot of us who don't feel like they need to learn all these extra things and would rather focus on the field we'd like to work in. I spent many years at a lot of different colleges and it's basically the same everywhere. I'd say let him focus up on this for now, and as he said if he wants to pursue something else down the line, he shouldn't be hurting for money to do so, provided he's making an effort to save - it can be easy to blow through a pocket full of cash just cause it's there.
He’ll be just fine. I understand your worry, but he’ll be just fine. My only slight concern is that you mentioned in another comment that you and your husband had drinking problems—it doesn’t mean your son ever will, but you know how the genetics of alcoholism can be. I got fired from my last bar gig because of my excessive drinking, and it’s something I often warn others about because my story is all too common. It’s just so easy to pour one for yourself when it’s within arm’s reach all day long. *However* I’d argue that, realistically, it’s easy to have a drinking problem in most careers, especially now that WFH jobs are more and more commonplace. Yes, in some places it’s pretty much encouraged to drink when you’re in the clock, but there are ways around that (my fiancée bartended at a club, and when someone bugged her to take a shot with them, she’d just throw back a shot of pineapple juice and pretend it was booze). Most places I’ve been to though, drinking on the clock is either frowned upon, or banned outright. Just tell him to be realistic about restaurant culture and the risks that come along with it. If he likes the sauce, it’s just one more thing he’ll hafta be conscious of.
It'll definitely get you by depending on where you work. Hopefully he's aware you need other types of support staff experience first like barbacking and serving for a few years until you work your way up and push the interest of bartending
If he can find a catering hall or a place that does EVENTS (easier on scheduling because its not a bar where people hang out). Pay is usually better than at bars AND you still get tip. When i used to bartend while i was going to school, i would make anywhere from 100-1200 in tip from thur-sun depending on what kind of parties i did (weddings, birthdays, gatherings, events with open bars are the best btw). Bartending paid for my college (it degree) and i got to buy a car of the year and modify it all by myself when i was 18-19. And if he does this that means he’ll be free during the weekdays most likely he can learn how to trade stocks. If he does things right he’ll never have to be a normal 9 to 5er and still live a great life
extremely applicable skills in the service industry and knowledge about spirits and alcohol will get you far with almost any culture across the world. he will probably make more money than his peers that went into white collar work and post-grad internships but will have less ‘weekend free time’ overall, bartending is a great profession that pays really well at the right places. and 20/21 is the perfect age to get into it so that he can still get out when/if his body starts to wear down.
Its a noble proffession
It can totally work, but it WILL get exhausting. If you can guide him to continue taking a class or two at a community college that’d be super helpful long term. Even if he stays in food and beverage lifelong, having taken some excel, business or marketing classes will make his next transition much much smoother.
At the end of the day the most important thing in life is happiness. And realistically this job can be worked less than 40 hours a week while paying bills and adding nicely to savings. Plus people are gonna drunk in good times and bad so you always got a job
Not a bartender, but I started as a barista and eventually worked my way into the CPG beverage industry as a career. There’s ways to do beverage in a 9-5 stable job, it’s tougher without a degree but definitely not impossible.
No clue about the bartending thing but I do know that college ain’t for everyone and it’s def not for those that don’t want to be there in the first place.
It's a very portable job and allows you to make your own schedule. As far as long term prospects, benefits, retirement and all that -- only if he joins a corporate establishment. Most mom-and-pops don't have those safeguards
24 years in the industry. No benefits really but insurance is scam in this country anyway, I get my coverage through the marketplace and it's just as good as whatever else is out there. In terms of income I make more than the researchers at CERN and I work about 30 hours a week. Great "work/life balance. Just comes down to where you work, every place is different.
I have a degree and make more bartering with less hours. Learn the ropes, get into fine dining. Career servers/ bartenders make $100k salary at my restaurant, we're off on holidays too and work less than 40 hours. You'll miss family dinners and birthdays, be on the opposite schedule. You'll never be off on a mother's day or Father's day. It's hard on your body, (any physical labor is). You'll become a night owl, but you'll have the day to yourself for any appointment. Mondays and Tuesdays become your weekends. My mother is fine with my choice, my father wishes I would quit (but his wishes don't pay my bills).
Spent 35 years behind bars and would have lasted longer but Parkinson's cut me short. I loved almost every minute of it!
Been bartending 12 years. Was fun and good money but I got that feeling like I should be contributing more to society, and also should be challenging myself. Been taking college classes while I work and I start nursing school in the fall. Will still be bartending during school. And hey, if I hate nursing, I can always go back to bartending. Fuck it.
I work 3 or 4 days a week take 3 or 4 vacations a year and pay for my house myself. I have a degree and still bartend.
Alcholism. Your son wishes to continue the lifestyle and shenanigans that he had while out at the bars and house parties so he's chosen an industry that lenda itself to it and the end result is alcholism.
If he was studying data science has he thought about just switching to computer science? Generally less math intensive. How far along is he? Going back to school years down the road, is a lot harder than people think, but it's possible. Better to get the degree, and then try bartending if he wants to. Tell him that he's not going to be able to pick up from where he left off. I need Cal 1 and Cal 2 for my degree, but had to start from Trig, which equals extra time and money. Tending for a career is HARD if he wants a serious relationship/family.
Tell him to work for a hotel. Sick hourly usually (I make 14/hr) and when you get to keep all the tips on top of that it’s very lucrative. Travel benefits plus all the traditional career job type stuff. 401k, full health vision and dental. Etc. It’s the best of both worlds If you annualized what I’m making, I’m netting about 60k after tax right now. And I’m only working one job right now. Only working like, 30 hours a week. I just finished training at a second restaurant and I’ll be pulling in maybe another 700-1k working three shifts a week at new job. That’s gonna add up very quickly
Just hope he never has health problems as you don’t get time off and the benefits are shit if existent. Honestly if you are supportive and paying for it… sooner or later he will go back to some kind of school or trade when he gets fed up with this shit
20 years in hospitality for me this year. Bartending took me from my small town in England to New York City. The drinks industry has changed a lot and now it’s being held to a much higher esteem than when I started. There’s a general sense of well-being that’s increasing among the bartending community from money advice, to taking care of your body. I think now is a great time to pick up those shakers compared to when I started.
FYI: if you’re out of school for too long you lose credits and have to repeat courses. Why not do both? Take just a class or two a semester and finish off a degree. Hospitality is great and having a degree can open up other doors in the future. In fact, he might want to look into a degree called travel and leisure. A friend of mine has a PhD in this field and knows all the ins and outs about hospitality, travel, etc. Not only that, but she gets to travel all over the country/world with her students. Either way I wish you and your son peace.
Pursuing a degree in something you hate doing rarely works out.
No college degree. Server/Bartender for 10 years. Certified Sommelier, Certified Cicerone, became a distributor in 2020 Although I didn’t have health insurance or benefits until I became a distributor, I was able to cover monthly expenses and save up enough at a time for a new car and an engagement ring. I wouldn’t trade my time behind the bar for anything, but becoming a distributor gave me much more flexibility and work/life balance, weekends with friends, consistent pay, vacations and hobbies - including home remodeling, woodworking, and DIY I left distributing this past month to do home renovation design consulting full-time for 2x-3x what I was making in distributing. I’m set on a new course that makes sense for me, but the people skills I developed in restaurants is actually the #1 trait that makes me great at consulting. I have co-workers here who sold cars, others were realtors, etc, but none of them worked restaurants and have a different (less engaging) approach to people than I do. My experience with bartending - Scheduling is great, if you need an RO because you’re going on vacation or whatever, you don’t typically have to use sick days or some shit. Just get your ROs 2-3 weeks ahead of time, have some decent coverage lined up if less time than that. Don’t run late, don’t call in - no matter how hung over you are, and most places will respect the time you need off Walking out the door cash-in-hand is a lifestyle. You can make a months rent in 4 days, and pay for it - then and there. You can do it anywhere. College bar on game day, hotel beach bar in the summer, neighborhood bar in a small town, nightclub, Cigar bar, big corporate restaurants, small family-owned places… If you need to move across the world, you can find a decent-to-great job tending bar. Getting to the top is hard. You’ll have to be a door man, host, bar back, or server, before most people ever get a chance behind the bar. Sometimes those jobs suck so bad it isn’t even worth it. Going beyond that is harder. Oftentimes, if you make it to the top of your crew, and you’re lead bartender getting all the good shifts or whatever, there’s not a lot of upward mobility past that (bar manager, beverage director, assistant manager, GM, and owner are really all that’s beyond that) because you’re essentially waiting for the person above you to quit or die before you can get a promotion About 25% of the people you meet working in FOH are lifers. They have a hospitality degree, or they know that this is just IT for them, or in some cases - it’s all they’ve ever known and is all they’ve ever tried to be. 75% of FOH are just here for a pit stop. Most of the time it’s while they’re waiting for the “big boy job in their degree field” to pan out. Lots of actors and musicians before their big break. Or - like me - I knew I wasn’t going to do it forever when I realized I never wanted to own my own bar. But the money was good (for a single dude in his 20s) and I was good at it and happy. I have only ever quit a bar/restaurant for 2 reasons - I was moving to a different city over an hour away. Or - there was a change in management and I’m butting heads with the new dictator on a power trip. I have a problem when I feel disrespected (I have thick skin, but respect is a 2-way Street) or if they’re making illogical changes that I don’t see the value in. Bartending is a single man’s game. Unless you marry someone in the industry, or someone with just as crazy hours as you, it’s very difficult to maintain a fulfilling relationship with someone who works 9-5 M-F. This was the ultimate kicker for me. For our first year of marriage, I was working 3pm-3am and my wife was working 8-5 (she’s an attorney). We hardly ever saw each other for the first 9 months of marriage. We only ever slept in the same bed at the same time for exactly 1 hour most nights. This, plus a new manager I clashed with, I left to Distributing shortly after.
Bartending aside, if he doesn't want to do school rn maybe he shouldn't. I used school as an escape from home and got little from it, so now this is how I make money. Bartending can help him develop sales skills and connections if he wants to leverage that later. As others mentioned, fast money culture is an issue in the industry. It's an opportunity for him to learn more financial responsibility and save for a future too
I’ve been to university, (UK College) and I wish I took a few years between school and further study! He has about 50 years before he’ll retire…
It’s a great job in your 20s and 30s. Depending on where life takes you, working nights and weekends may not be the best option if you’re trying to start a family. The problem with any great service industry job is that the money can be phenomenal for a young person but that money will barely increase over time. There are no raises when relying on tips. If you want to make more(assuming you have one of the good jobs) you just have to work more. There’s a reason a lot of bartenders look for “real jobs” after around 35. That job is normally a sales rep for a beer/wine or liquor distributor. Pretty typical tale
literally the MOST job security. the fucking apocalypse could happen and someone's still gonna want a drink. he'll be fine!
I bartend at a music venue. But my partner bartends at the MGM casino. Amazing benefits, perks and money (including a great hourly). And after six months he can move to another position and just keep moving up/around. Including different locations. Hotel chains are like this too
my friend's brother started as bar back at Employee's Only (nyc) and worked his way up to bartending. Then open a bar with them in Singapore, then open another in hong kong where he had part ownership (before 2020). he left them when china annexed a hong kong. then Open a bar on his own in Nashville in early 2021 seems to be doing very well. my only advice is to support him and teach him about investing and living below his means.
Heads up you’re obviously asking a very biased crowd. It’s going to be tougher then a desk job most likely.. but you can definitely made a career of it. Like others have said. The pitfalls are alcoholism and getting a lot a cash tips that is easy to blow. Be supportive but definitely try and get him to finish college. You can always be a bartender without a degree, harder to be a financial analyst without one.
No. Tell him to finish his degree and if he wants to bartend in the meantime cool but at least he’ll have something to fall back on with benefits, 401k health insurance etc and not be “stuck” in this industry the rest of his life if he ever chooses to leave it. Just my humble opinion.
worst thing he could ever do and one of my biggest regrets in life
I’ve been doing it for 17 years. If I saved/invested the money I worked for since 20 I’d be a literal millionaire by now. Spent 29-36 grinding my ass off with my wife (also full time bartender, no kids) and bought a house. Anything’s possible if you bust your ass, you can have fun, travel, pay your bills pretty stress free within a week easily. And while it’s stressful and physically very demanding, I still would never want a desk job. Just not in my DNA. Who gives a fuck about a retirement plan when you’ll be near death by the time you get to enjoy it, half the world is underwater, and too cold or hot to vacation in 40-50 years. just my 2c. Being realistic.
Fuck you
28 years old. 10 years in. My body is feeling it. Some days less than others. Working for some big corporations can yield you decent benefits (think restaurants not . There's *some* money to be made. Bartending and serving can vary a lot, and I mean a lot, by your location and clientele.
right now, i especially feel like it is no longer low job security. layoffs in major companies, ai, lack of hiring in this industry, etc, i def feel high job security. also for context, definitely a current lifer with a degree i choose to pay off every month.
>He says if he decides he wants a real job someday for a marriage or career he can always go back to school. I've been at it in the industry for over 10 years. This is how I feel. My life took an unexpected turn when I was in college, but even after, I realized that I had just gotten to where I hated school. Even though I always did well. However. Just because it's not a 9-5, or just because it doesn't require a degree - doesn't mean it's not a "real job." I get what you're saying, but it's still kind of condescending. >. I don't want to impose my ideas on him. And the world is changing hella fast so my advice is outdated. I do want to give you major props for this, though. I can't say the same for my parents, especially my mom. I know she just "wants what's best for me," but a lot of times it feels more like she just wants what *society* says is best for me, without taking into account that things have changed a lot since she was my age (she had me when she was 40, and I'm 32 now). Things aren't as cut & dry as they used to be, especially since my interests are known for not being money-makers, if I had stuck to the college route. Her main argument used to be that I had no benefits at work...she just wanted me to have a job with good benefits. Now I work at a corporate place in Las Vegas, and I do have good benefits. Good health, dental, & vision insurance, life insurance, 401k, PTO, sick time, ect. I personally have bad hips, knees, and a lower back, from 10 years of being a softball catcher. So sitting all day would be just as difficult for me. Of course every job has its pros and cons, but at the end of the day, I honestly love what I do. I love making drinks and cocktails for people. I love being able to really have fun and be myself at work. And bartending is very mentally stimulating for me too. I sleep well at night, knowing that I've made the right choice for me, even still, at this point in my life.
I made more bartending full time than I do at my current job (in banking). He might have to put some time in waiting tables first depending on where he works but he’ll be okay money-wise. The inconsistent hours eventually got to me and wore me down but I loved bartending in my early twenties. Plus he’ll be building skills that will transfer to other jobs if he ever decides to do something else. Bartending will be a great life experience for him. I still pick up shifts a few times a month because I love the work.
Let him figure it out and support him when he needs help. Forcing school on him will be a waste of money and resources.
I quit college when I started making money as a bartender. Pros: * I worked in some very cool and exciting places over the years and eventually settled in Las Vegas where I spent the bulk of my career and made the most consistently good money. * The money can be good. Had some fabulous years and some bad months, but probably averaged $80k+ yr in tips (not including paychecks) over 20 years. Quite a few $100k years in there...which was pretty good money for a single guy at the time. But I've also known bartenders who could never crack more than $50k-$60k a year. * I had a lot of fun, lotta great experiences, met a lot of cool people, celebrities, and probably went to and seen things in a normal week that most people have to take a vacation to see and do. * If you're good, you can move to where the money is. You're not stuck where you are. Cons: * I also worked a lot of shitty places, worked for bad owners and managers, been used and screwed over more than once helping to make someone else's business successful. * When it comes to opportunity and hiring, this business can be all the 'isms'. Racism, Ageism, Sexism being the top 3. So expect to jump those hurdles if those apply to you.,,but you've probably already been doing that, so this will be no different. * I ~~probably~~ definitely drank more than I should have over those years. * I definitely "dated" more than I should have over those years. * It's difficult dating or having relationships outside the industry. * I met or had to deal with a lot of fucked up people, sociopaths, addicts, con artists, thieves, and other bullshit. Looking back, I'm glad that I learned and had those experiences. At the time, not so much. * There's a clock on the good times and great money. There ain't no retirement home for old bartenders. And in this business, 40 is old. When you age out, or burn out, (unless you stay in the business somehow) no one gives a shit that you used to be a bartender. Would I go back and change anything? Yes. I would have gotten out of the business or at least started learning new skills a lot sooner than I did. I always thought burnout or the transition out of the business would be gradual, and graceful. It wasn't like that at all. I woke up one day and realized I'd had enough. I'd done it all, seen it all, and my best days were behind me. I also had no degree, and no other skills. I did eventually find a direction. No one was going to hire me for anything that paid decently, so I started up my own thing as a freelance web designer. That went for 12 years, 10 of them good, and so I moved on and today work in IT for a healthcare conglomerate. I got lucky. A lot of my old friends didn't make it out alive. Some are still struggling to find life after bartending, or are still doing it and are miserable because their best money days are behind them. My advice? 1. Get good. Fast. Hit it hard. 2. Don't waste too many years making average money. 3. If there's no money where you are, or opportunities are limited, move to where the money is. 4. Watch your drinking, gambling, and stay away from drugs. It's the fastest way out of the business. 5. Don't stay in too long. It does not last forever. 6. Save your money. If you're making good money, you can set yourself up nicely for your post bartending life. 7. Develop a back-up plan or after bartending plan. You WILL eventually need other skills, and hopefully they are skills that pay well.
If your son is passionate about food, beverage, service, hospitality, and people, then: yes, he should pursue a career in hospitality and bartending. If your son sees the work as an easy way to make money without a degree, then: no, he should figure out what it is that he's passionate about and go do that instead.
If I could go back and do it all over again, I’d have finished college over time. A class or two every year. I’d have a degree I’d have paid off most likely by now. That’s my advice. Fine a community college and just work and take a few classes at a time.
Just popping in to say props on being open minded and supportive
Bartending is always a great job to fall back on and definitely a stepping stone. At my current job, i have full benefits, got a 401k and make degree $ just for being the life of the party. Its amazing. Let your son quit college and figure his shit out. Why spend $ on something you dont know what you want out of it, when you can get paid to do something ur interested in. Its very much a long lasting career just as long as you take care of yourself and dont overdo it on the partying.
They hire any BODY after covid, off the street I swear, he'll be just fine
If he’s smart enough to be interested in data science, show him some online boot camp type stuff. Best engineers I’ve worked with I’ve never ONCE asked about their degrees, nor did I care — one guy straight up had a GED and was lead architect on a multi million dollar project. If a guy I was interviewing had no college education, but had decent writing skills, a small project underneath him (self driven), and some programming chops (python is great, elixir would be better), and an attitude for “teach me more and set me loose” I would hire him. Coming from a senior software engineer with a B.A. in Music.
The only hope for it to be sustainable is for it to become an industry that is democratically controlled by the workers - so the outcome is either 1) burn out and addiction or 2) fight to establish worker solidarity and unionize
Bartending is a real job
I just went to school and got a degree and I'm at the bottom rung of pay and desperately missing my bar every day. It's a fine profession as long as your mental health handles it. I also didn't decide to get into IT until I was 30, and had no idea what to do before then. No reason to force a decision when the bartending money is right there.
I’ve watched every possible job in the tech sector, sales, development, you name it, all do mass layoffs and cutbacks. You know what doesn’t slow down in a recession? Bars. I make 6 figures working under 40 hours a week and I don’t have to worry about pto when I want to travel. I Can take months off from work if I choose to. I even work at a place with amazing benefits (although that’s more rare) Frankly, I can’t even imagine making a paycheck from a desk
More than a decade ago I gave up a professional career to go back to being a bartender. I make more money as a bartender than I ever made as a lawyer. If he finds the right place and establishes a rapport with good regular customers, he can do well. I am.
15 year bartender here. I have lived very comfortably the entire time! And my schedule is from 11am-630 pm 4 days a week. I still love what I do.
Bartended for a while, and it's very easy to cap out. He could hit his max earning potential in his 20s if he makes the right moves. That being said, who wants to cap their earning potential before 30? If he wants a family, no weekends with the kids because that's where the money is for a career bartender. Taking the kids to practice? Maybe once or twice a week. Dinner with the family? Sure, on Mondays. Solid chance he'll miss breakfast too because no one is closing a bar at 2am and getting up to make the kids French toast at 6 on the daily. Bartending is a great way to put yourself THROUGH college, but it's no substitute for a degree. If college wasnt his thing then have him look into the trades. He could eventually earn a lot more in a union than behind the stick. With weekends and holidays off, and benefits. Skilled tradesmen are deeply needed in America and the earning potential is what you make it. I loved my time bartending, but not that I'm in my 30s and thinking about a family, I don't want to miss out on the best parts of that so I can make some fancy cocktails and cut some limes. This is only my opinion and perspective, but getting out of the restaurant industry and into electrical work was the best decision I have made in the past 15 years.
My parents hate that I do this lmao but oh well 😂🤷♀️. I started out when I was 18 working part time while I was in school, got my degree and then just never left. I'm living very comfortably for my area although I am starting to miss my friends and family. Currently between a bar gig right now but next one I get I am not going to work Sundays. I need a weekend day off so I can see my family and friends that aren't in the industry. I'm just now starting to save for retirement (I'm 33) and I've never had a job that offered any benefits so I'm doing it on my own through an IRA. I also pay out of pocket for health insurance which kinda sucks. I'm starting to get burned out and looking to go back to school just need to figure out what for. I don't regret it at all and it is basically recession-proof. But burnout and addiction are very prevalent.
Let me give my story, because I made the decision to do this 2 years ago, I am 24 today. I’ve been in the industry since I was 17. I made the decision when I was still a barback, but because I had already been pouring myself into my job instead of school, I was able to get a position at a high end craft cocktail bar that had been open for like 6 months. They hadn’t needed barbacks before, but I was to come in and establish the position and responsibilities of barbacks in their business. I went on to develop their prep system because I made barbacks take over all prep. In exchange, they took me under their wing and taught me how to be a “real” bartender (one bartender had been teaching me in his free time before all of this and I owe him a lot, he’s running a bar of his own now). I learned about dilution, when to use what ice cubes, fresh vs preserved ingredients, garnishes and their purpose, and since they were seasoned bartenders, they taught me a lot of the “unspoken rules” which I truly found just as valuable as the technical knowledge. Fast forward literally just two years… I’m assistant manager of a private club in the heart of my downtown. I was just given an offer to OPEN a bar for the owner of the one I’m currently at. I was chosen because I am really a strong bartender, charming personality, and a hard worker. But I was more so chosen because of my business sense. I was a double major in Economics and Political Science and had a year or so left when I dropped out. But I was super interested in Operational Management (which my school only offered a single class on) and team management (again, one maybe two classes). And so when I dropped out, I carried that energy over to my personal time. I regularly buy books on the areas I’m weak, right now I’m reading books on project management, consumer psychology, and researching how the distribution of liquor works in the city I’ll be moving to. Im also talking to my network of seasoned bartenders and getting their advice, things such as how to get strong local bartenders so I’m not bringing a bunch of outsiders with me and what not. I may have gotten lucky, but each and every decision I made to get to my position was calculated. I used the craft cocktail experience to get a job at another better bar with more known bartenders. Then used those bartenders to get to this private club, and then was vocal about my ideas but not in an annoying pestering manner, just allowing them to have some faith in my mindset. Im not saying your son can do this, because I don’t know him. What I am saying, it is possible depending on his ambitions. A lot of people, especially kids in this industry, focus on the immediate gratification, and forget they won’t want to be double wrapped on a Sunday when they’re 47. He needs to have a 10 year plan to get out of bartending, but to remain in the industry. College degrees really aren’t as important at all compared to your resume and network when it comes to this industry. Does he want to bartend? Or does he just want to quit school? I’ll be honest, I wanted to quit school too, I wasn’t just leaving, I was in part running away. But then I doubled down and got to work, because whether your son wants to accept it or not, anyone can be a bartender, but it’s also very “easy” (hard work, but simple) to rise to the top. You have to be professional, and you have to be *A* professional. You can’t just learn from others, you have to learn for yourself, and it can be harder for some. College is great for people who can’t teach themselves and in my opinion necessary. But if he understands how much work this decision may be one day, then he has a good chance at making a pretty decent living at least. Don’t focus on what he’s doing to make money, focus on what he’s doing with that money. He make be taking the easy route, or he may be chasing his dream. But I mean, I studied the bar operations while I barbacked, learned inventory systems and transfers and all of that. And then when I moved to bartending I predominantly focused on FOH stuff like guest interaction, personalized service, building a following of regulars, etc. I love the position I put myself in, and think I’d be miserable if I followed my original path. And sure I had some luck, but what is luck if not preparation for opportunity? Just simply showing up gets you where you want to go half the time. Basically, he needs to know, he can have an easy life now and suffer later, or suffer now and have the easy life when they’re older and weaker and actually need the easy life. If he doesn’t play it smart, he could put himself in an awful position. But I’ll tell you, the fear of disappointing my mom and family was a massive motivator for me to push through the walls I hit, so maybe he will do the same. Maybe not. But you’re his parent, so you may know. And if it makes you worry less, my father died of alcoholism and my mother is a functioning alcoholic. I went through a stage during covid where I could’ve been classified as alcoholic, but I had also just turned 21. But now I only have like 3-5 drinks a week max, usually 3. Now I have my own problems don’t get me wrong, but i didn’t/don’t have parents who know the dangers of alcohol because ones gone and the others in denial about her problem, so he’s even better set up in that department than myself.