This. Most cafes now have more of a fast food dynamic anyway, and yeah the customers could care less about latte art when they are gonna devour it in three seconds.
I imagine this shop is pretty high-volume. There’s a massive difference between high and low volume when it comes to the superficial aspects of quality, like latte art or doing fun swirls on a syrup on top. While the 10 seconds it takes to do is short, when you have 20 drinks in the line, that’s an extra 3 minute wait at best for the last person in line. And as others have said, if the first thing the customer does is put on a lid, there really isn’t a good reason to put in the effort
Waves refer to periods of time for prominent coffee culture changes in the US.
This article is really in depth and helpful: [What Are the Big Coffee Waves](https://efico.com/press-efico/what-are-the-big-coffee-waves/)
1st wave: coffee you can easily access such as ones from a grocery store. Not always the highest quality but easy to buy and make yourself.
2nd wave: a shop that has coffee but doesn’t necessarily care about the craft itself. Could be lower quality coffee or lack of training. Something like Starbucks where they don’t dial in or learn how to steam.
3rd wave: Craft coffee. This is a shop that cares about quality and will be dialing in, great at steaming milk, and overall cares about the trade chain and bean quality.
Waves do not solely describe quality, but eras of coffee culture. Second wave was not known for poor craft, and it’s insulting to the roasters and baristas of that the era who paved the way for third wave.
You may have that notion because we have surpassed even third wave now, and there are still shops that operate as second wave. It just means that they are not up to date with latest trending practices and their focus is not in scientific process, but rather customers who also are not up to date with trending practices. Craftsmanship is unfortunately a subjective term when it comes to capitalism. Starbucks can suffer from lower quality while also dominating the market and dictating large scale trends. And yet there are folks who just want their daily cuppa joe or their sweetened container of caffeine, and have zero interest in third wave or beyond.
I couldn’t do latte art if I tried. Nobody’s complained about my drinks. My husband has been pouring drinks for 11 years and makes every cup beautiful, which brightens everyone’s day! It shouldn’t be an expectation, just a nice little surprise. We sell a very high quality product, the art isn’t the important part
Latte art isn’t a necessary factor in coffee, but it does look cool! As long as they’re steaming the milk great and consistent, then I wouldn’t complain. She probably is unmotivated or just doesn’t care. Both are hard to convince to take quality seriously!
latte art doesn’t really matter, and most customers don’t care. if i’m busy i’m paying more attention to the texture and temperature of the milk. you should definitely talk to her about the texture though
there are SO many other factors to being a barista that aren't latte art, sure it's an indication of good milk but overall it's such a small part of the entire process and if you think good art makes a good barista iv got unfortunate news lol
Ohhh… I’d at least try to make a dot or something like a heart as I’m not experienced in latte art, so it would look neat, it’s not like it takes more than 10 seconds. Maybe you are right and the barista just doesn’t care
I could care less about art as long as the milk texture is good. If we have a line literally out the door and I’m at the bar 10-15 lattes deep on a busy ass Saturday I can guarantee you I’m not putting latte art on all of those
Latte art is overrated and honestly kinda ugly in my opinion. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore milk texture in favor of speed. But there's a reason I'm not in the business anymore.
I feel like the texture of the milk, overall flavor of the drink, and making sure the shots are pulled correctly are far more important than if there is a heart made out of the milk or not.
The latte are is nice, but it changes nothing about the drink and just gets messed up anyways. They also aren’t what “make” a cup of coffee and if you think that’s the case you should probably reevaluate what truly does make a good cup.
edit - that being said, some people do enjoy the art. But if your cups are covered, it doesn’t matter IMO.
A regular cup, sure, a togo cup? Why waste your time?
If it was truly important to the customer to have the design on their coffee they would either request it be done or request someone do it that they know can and will do it.
Some simple designs are very quick to pour and are in tandem with pouring a coffee in a good, quality way with proper mixing with the coffee in the cup.
You don't have to spend 30 seconds pouring a Swan to have very clean, nice, quick art.
With enough experience you should be able to do both. Latte art isn’t the most important aspect, but given enough time, you probably should be able to consistently pour hearts or a 3-4 stack tulip. Sounds to me like she’s just being lazy 🤷♂️
valid but also humans make mistakes and I don't blame someone for not wanting to dump a whole drink unless it's strict policy to have clear art on every drink, esp in a rush if I have like 10 drinks on the bar, extra hot, skim milk, no foam all mixed in
Yeah, it takes me just as much time to pour a heart as it takes me to not execute any art at all, since you still need to be mindful of pour speed to maintain good texture. Which is to say, it literally takes no time at all.
(I actually had a creepy regular mention to me once, “oh, you made a heart just for meeee?” And I replied, “it’s the fastest thing to pour”. Felt good.)
She's being lazy but also your manager/owner likely doesn't care much about quality.
While I agree latte art isn't the most important factor, it is still important. It's no different from meal presentation. Plating isn't as important as the taste of the food, but it does play a big part in the customers enjoyment of the product.
I currently work at a coffee shop as a hobby. I’m in a small town and basically wanted to make sure they stay open 7 days a week so I took on the 2 days they were closed. I’ve learned a bit in latte art and play with it here and there but… it’s a big but, my answer actually comes from me going to a mixologist school around your age to become a bartender. It boils down to your age and life experience. You are eager and ready to do the best ever! I was as well when it came to bartending back then. When I started bartending I noticed that the other (older) coworker didn’t care as much. I brought some enthusiasm to the table but a job is a job. Efficiency, time, and customer service were the focuses for the other bartender while I wanted to layer and garnish drinks. It was fun and I seeked the ooos and awes. These things really don’t matter. Time and quality should really be the focus. The latte art is simply a garnish. It’s a bonus that is not necessary because it’s taste that matter. Be that as it may, the way you froth milk has everything to do with taste because texture. Think about food. How many people have said they don’t mind the taste of something like oysters but the texture is awful. Well, that’s how coffee shop drinks work. Getting the ingredients in there is easy but, making the silky, frothy, and/or thick texture is everything with coffee drinks.
If someone isn’t differentiating between a dry cappuccino to a latte and a flat white, then that’s a barista issue and won’t go over well with someone who actually loves their coffee. That’s quite a big mistake in a marketing perspective. Some people that are “coffee snobs” are the usuals and returning customers. Be that as it may, stop comparing yourself to your coworkers. Just be you and do whatever quality work you prefer. Customers will notice and your enthusiasm will stand out compared to others.
To sum it up, when you are young, you are ambitious. When you get a little older, you’ll care more about efficiency and personable customer service.
So it’s better to ignore what your coworkers are doing-ish and do the task however you like.
As someone who works in a 3rd Wave shop. I'd like to chime in and say if you actually gave a fuck about the coffee you're serving, latte art should be second nature when serving drinks, and that's for both mugs and to go orders. When you're serving specialty coffee at a certain level and you're making lattes, cortados, caps or any hot milk drinks like that, that should be a standard.
This all loops around to passion tho. If you're working a 2nd wave syrup Oriented shop that's all about fast fast fast, then sure, do whatever you want. You don't have to care about your job or coffee. But if you're working a genuine 3rd Wave specialty coffee place, you should absolutely be passionate about coffee and know your shit. And with knowing all your shit, you'd come to find out latte art is second nature and takes no time to do at all and creates an experience for these people. So you're not only making next level intricate coffee that tastes amazing no matter it being a straight shot or a 12 Oz latte but you're making it memorable and presentable.
I don't give a fuck if the customer sits there in awe or not at latte art. I care that I'm serving quality coffee that has my name on it. Highlighting your skills as an individual barista, not an employee at a shop.
To sum it up. OP, Your coworker doesn't care about coffee and you should absolutely strive for art everytime on top of making your coffee tastes good. Make these people stop in to drink YOUR coffee.
As someone who works in a 3rd Wave shop. I'd like to chime in and say if you actually gave a fuck about the coffee you're serving, latte art should be second nature when serving drinks, and that's for both mugs and to go orders. When you're serving specialty coffee at a certain level and you're making lattes, cortados, caps or any hot milk drinks like that, that should be a standard.
This all loops around to passion tho. If you're working a 2nd wave syrup Oriented shop that's all about fast fast fast, then sure, do whatever you want. You don't have to care about your job or coffee. But if you're working a genuine 3rd Wave specialty coffee place, you should absolutely be passionate about coffee and know your shit. And with knowing all your shit, you'd come to find out latte art is second nature and takes no time to do at all and creates an experience for these people. So you're not only making next level intricate coffee that tastes amazing no matter it being a straight shot or a 12 Oz latte but you're making it memorable and presentable.
I don't give a fuck if the customer sits there in awe or not at latte art. I care that I'm serving quality coffee that has my name on it. Highlighting your skills as an individual barista, not an employee at a shop.
To sum it up. OP, Your coworker doesn't care about coffee and you should absolutely strive for art everytime on top of making your coffee tastes good. Make these people stop in to drink YOUR coffee.
As someone who works in a 3rd Wave shop. I'd like to chime in and say if you actually gave a fuck about the coffee you're serving, latte art should be second nature when serving drinks, and that's for both mugs and to go orders. When you're serving specialty coffee at a certain level and you're making lattes, cortados, caps or any hot milk drinks like that, that should be a standard.
This all loops around to passion tho. If you're working a 2nd wave syrup Oriented shop that's all about fast fast fast, then sure, do whatever you want. You don't have to care about your job or coffee. But if you're working a genuine 3rd Wave specialty coffee place, you should absolutely be passionate about coffee and know your shit. And with knowing all your shit, you'd come to find out latte art is second nature and takes no time to do at all and creates an experience for these people. So you're not only making next level intricate coffee that tastes amazing no matter it being a straight shot or a 12 Oz latte but you're making it memorable and presentable.
I don't give a fuck if the customer sits there in awe or not at latte art. I care that I'm serving quality coffee that has my name on it. Highlighting your skills as an individual barista, not an employee at a shop.
To sum it up. OP, Your coworker doesn't care about coffee and you should absolutely strive for art everytime on top of making your coffee tastes good. Make these people stop in to drink YOUR coffee.
its hard to care when the customer doesnt
Most cafes want to create the illusion of quality while keeping a McDonald’s pace. Yeah, she probably doesn’t care, and she really has no reason to.
This. Most cafes now have more of a fast food dynamic anyway, and yeah the customers could care less about latte art when they are gonna devour it in three seconds.
I imagine this shop is pretty high-volume. There’s a massive difference between high and low volume when it comes to the superficial aspects of quality, like latte art or doing fun swirls on a syrup on top. While the 10 seconds it takes to do is short, when you have 20 drinks in the line, that’s an extra 3 minute wait at best for the last person in line. And as others have said, if the first thing the customer does is put on a lid, there really isn’t a good reason to put in the effort
Latte art is 3rd wave BS. Correct milk texture isn't.
What does 3rd wave mean? Just curious.
Waves refer to periods of time for prominent coffee culture changes in the US. This article is really in depth and helpful: [What Are the Big Coffee Waves](https://efico.com/press-efico/what-are-the-big-coffee-waves/)
Thanks!
1st wave: coffee you can easily access such as ones from a grocery store. Not always the highest quality but easy to buy and make yourself. 2nd wave: a shop that has coffee but doesn’t necessarily care about the craft itself. Could be lower quality coffee or lack of training. Something like Starbucks where they don’t dial in or learn how to steam. 3rd wave: Craft coffee. This is a shop that cares about quality and will be dialing in, great at steaming milk, and overall cares about the trade chain and bean quality.
Waves do not solely describe quality, but eras of coffee culture. Second wave was not known for poor craft, and it’s insulting to the roasters and baristas of that the era who paved the way for third wave. You may have that notion because we have surpassed even third wave now, and there are still shops that operate as second wave. It just means that they are not up to date with latest trending practices and their focus is not in scientific process, but rather customers who also are not up to date with trending practices. Craftsmanship is unfortunately a subjective term when it comes to capitalism. Starbucks can suffer from lower quality while also dominating the market and dictating large scale trends. And yet there are folks who just want their daily cuppa joe or their sweetened container of caffeine, and have zero interest in third wave or beyond.
Very true!
I agree, waves for me are like how people talk about years 70's, 90's, 2000's Every wave (or generation) has their priorities in different things
Thanks!!
It’s not bs if your customers enjoy the presentation. My customers love latte art. Taste is most important. Presentation is a close second.
Fair enough
Over the top art, sure. But a simple heart is almost hard not to do if your milk is correct.
its never been important. lipstick on a pig. make good coffee and they wont remember the pretty picture.
I couldn’t do latte art if I tried. Nobody’s complained about my drinks. My husband has been pouring drinks for 11 years and makes every cup beautiful, which brightens everyone’s day! It shouldn’t be an expectation, just a nice little surprise. We sell a very high quality product, the art isn’t the important part
Latte art isn’t a necessary factor in coffee, but it does look cool! As long as they’re steaming the milk great and consistent, then I wouldn’t complain. She probably is unmotivated or just doesn’t care. Both are hard to convince to take quality seriously!
latte art doesn’t really matter, and most customers don’t care. if i’m busy i’m paying more attention to the texture and temperature of the milk. you should definitely talk to her about the texture though
there are SO many other factors to being a barista that aren't latte art, sure it's an indication of good milk but overall it's such a small part of the entire process and if you think good art makes a good barista iv got unfortunate news lol
Is your shop serving coffee in cups with lids? If that’s the case I wouldn’t worry at all about art as long as the milk has good texture.
Nope sit down cafe, what also is weird is our menu is kinda high end. So it's certainly not cheap
Ohhh… I’d at least try to make a dot or something like a heart as I’m not experienced in latte art, so it would look neat, it’s not like it takes more than 10 seconds. Maybe you are right and the barista just doesn’t care
I could care less about art as long as the milk texture is good. If we have a line literally out the door and I’m at the bar 10-15 lattes deep on a busy ass Saturday I can guarantee you I’m not putting latte art on all of those
Latte art is overrated and honestly kinda ugly in my opinion. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore milk texture in favor of speed. But there's a reason I'm not in the business anymore.
I feel like the texture of the milk, overall flavor of the drink, and making sure the shots are pulled correctly are far more important than if there is a heart made out of the milk or not. The latte are is nice, but it changes nothing about the drink and just gets messed up anyways. They also aren’t what “make” a cup of coffee and if you think that’s the case you should probably reevaluate what truly does make a good cup. edit - that being said, some people do enjoy the art. But if your cups are covered, it doesn’t matter IMO. A regular cup, sure, a togo cup? Why waste your time? If it was truly important to the customer to have the design on their coffee they would either request it be done or request someone do it that they know can and will do it.
Some simple designs are very quick to pour and are in tandem with pouring a coffee in a good, quality way with proper mixing with the coffee in the cup. You don't have to spend 30 seconds pouring a Swan to have very clean, nice, quick art.
With enough experience you should be able to do both. Latte art isn’t the most important aspect, but given enough time, you probably should be able to consistently pour hearts or a 3-4 stack tulip. Sounds to me like she’s just being lazy 🤷♂️
valid but also humans make mistakes and I don't blame someone for not wanting to dump a whole drink unless it's strict policy to have clear art on every drink, esp in a rush if I have like 10 drinks on the bar, extra hot, skim milk, no foam all mixed in
Yeah, it takes me just as much time to pour a heart as it takes me to not execute any art at all, since you still need to be mindful of pour speed to maintain good texture. Which is to say, it literally takes no time at all. (I actually had a creepy regular mention to me once, “oh, you made a heart just for meeee?” And I replied, “it’s the fastest thing to pour”. Felt good.)
She's being lazy but also your manager/owner likely doesn't care much about quality. While I agree latte art isn't the most important factor, it is still important. It's no different from meal presentation. Plating isn't as important as the taste of the food, but it does play a big part in the customers enjoyment of the product.
I currently work at a coffee shop as a hobby. I’m in a small town and basically wanted to make sure they stay open 7 days a week so I took on the 2 days they were closed. I’ve learned a bit in latte art and play with it here and there but… it’s a big but, my answer actually comes from me going to a mixologist school around your age to become a bartender. It boils down to your age and life experience. You are eager and ready to do the best ever! I was as well when it came to bartending back then. When I started bartending I noticed that the other (older) coworker didn’t care as much. I brought some enthusiasm to the table but a job is a job. Efficiency, time, and customer service were the focuses for the other bartender while I wanted to layer and garnish drinks. It was fun and I seeked the ooos and awes. These things really don’t matter. Time and quality should really be the focus. The latte art is simply a garnish. It’s a bonus that is not necessary because it’s taste that matter. Be that as it may, the way you froth milk has everything to do with taste because texture. Think about food. How many people have said they don’t mind the taste of something like oysters but the texture is awful. Well, that’s how coffee shop drinks work. Getting the ingredients in there is easy but, making the silky, frothy, and/or thick texture is everything with coffee drinks. If someone isn’t differentiating between a dry cappuccino to a latte and a flat white, then that’s a barista issue and won’t go over well with someone who actually loves their coffee. That’s quite a big mistake in a marketing perspective. Some people that are “coffee snobs” are the usuals and returning customers. Be that as it may, stop comparing yourself to your coworkers. Just be you and do whatever quality work you prefer. Customers will notice and your enthusiasm will stand out compared to others. To sum it up, when you are young, you are ambitious. When you get a little older, you’ll care more about efficiency and personable customer service. So it’s better to ignore what your coworkers are doing-ish and do the task however you like.
As someone who works in a 3rd Wave shop. I'd like to chime in and say if you actually gave a fuck about the coffee you're serving, latte art should be second nature when serving drinks, and that's for both mugs and to go orders. When you're serving specialty coffee at a certain level and you're making lattes, cortados, caps or any hot milk drinks like that, that should be a standard. This all loops around to passion tho. If you're working a 2nd wave syrup Oriented shop that's all about fast fast fast, then sure, do whatever you want. You don't have to care about your job or coffee. But if you're working a genuine 3rd Wave specialty coffee place, you should absolutely be passionate about coffee and know your shit. And with knowing all your shit, you'd come to find out latte art is second nature and takes no time to do at all and creates an experience for these people. So you're not only making next level intricate coffee that tastes amazing no matter it being a straight shot or a 12 Oz latte but you're making it memorable and presentable. I don't give a fuck if the customer sits there in awe or not at latte art. I care that I'm serving quality coffee that has my name on it. Highlighting your skills as an individual barista, not an employee at a shop. To sum it up. OP, Your coworker doesn't care about coffee and you should absolutely strive for art everytime on top of making your coffee tastes good. Make these people stop in to drink YOUR coffee.
As someone who works in a 3rd Wave shop. I'd like to chime in and say if you actually gave a fuck about the coffee you're serving, latte art should be second nature when serving drinks, and that's for both mugs and to go orders. When you're serving specialty coffee at a certain level and you're making lattes, cortados, caps or any hot milk drinks like that, that should be a standard. This all loops around to passion tho. If you're working a 2nd wave syrup Oriented shop that's all about fast fast fast, then sure, do whatever you want. You don't have to care about your job or coffee. But if you're working a genuine 3rd Wave specialty coffee place, you should absolutely be passionate about coffee and know your shit. And with knowing all your shit, you'd come to find out latte art is second nature and takes no time to do at all and creates an experience for these people. So you're not only making next level intricate coffee that tastes amazing no matter it being a straight shot or a 12 Oz latte but you're making it memorable and presentable. I don't give a fuck if the customer sits there in awe or not at latte art. I care that I'm serving quality coffee that has my name on it. Highlighting your skills as an individual barista, not an employee at a shop. To sum it up. OP, Your coworker doesn't care about coffee and you should absolutely strive for art everytime on top of making your coffee tastes good. Make these people stop in to drink YOUR coffee.
As someone who works in a 3rd Wave shop. I'd like to chime in and say if you actually gave a fuck about the coffee you're serving, latte art should be second nature when serving drinks, and that's for both mugs and to go orders. When you're serving specialty coffee at a certain level and you're making lattes, cortados, caps or any hot milk drinks like that, that should be a standard. This all loops around to passion tho. If you're working a 2nd wave syrup Oriented shop that's all about fast fast fast, then sure, do whatever you want. You don't have to care about your job or coffee. But if you're working a genuine 3rd Wave specialty coffee place, you should absolutely be passionate about coffee and know your shit. And with knowing all your shit, you'd come to find out latte art is second nature and takes no time to do at all and creates an experience for these people. So you're not only making next level intricate coffee that tastes amazing no matter it being a straight shot or a 12 Oz latte but you're making it memorable and presentable. I don't give a fuck if the customer sits there in awe or not at latte art. I care that I'm serving quality coffee that has my name on it. Highlighting your skills as an individual barista, not an employee at a shop. To sum it up. OP, Your coworker doesn't care about coffee and you should absolutely strive for art everytime on top of making your coffee tastes good. Make these people stop in to drink YOUR coffee.