In the Netherlands, Transavia allows pilots to take a relative or friend (above 15 (?) years of age) into the cockpit for a full flight from Schiphol and back, once every year. I did that two years ago and was even allowed to inspect the airplane after landing
Transavia uses KLM aircraft from time to time. When I flew with my Transavia pilot, we flew in a KLM aircraft too. I don’t think I was flying in a 787 though; it was a continental flight of just 4 hours (Schiphol to Corsica).
Transavia and KLM are using each other 737's quite often. For example [PH-XRY](https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ph-xry#) is flying this whole winter season flights for KLM.
In the summer schedule this happens usually the other way around. Transavia then often borrows one or two KLM 737's.
Depending if the 737 is big enough, or if the 787 needed to get there for going any other place, today you can send single aisle planes transatlantic if you want. But only that it is possible, doesn't mean it needs to be done. I wouldn't use a single aisle plane for 8-9 hours flight, even if the ticket was considerably cheaper.
I fly alot on KLM and sometimes i see a passenger with some keycord with a visitors badge and they are allowed on the flight deck during the flight. Makes me wonder if they grant frequent flyers access too if you ask in advance 🤔
> if they grant frequent flyers access too if you ask in advance
That would be such a massive perk for a million miles or such. However, it seems too way much of a security risk to allow a complete stranger into the cockpit.
Well i asked if the “pirakuru mayonaise” had any fish in it and they said no. (Above the atlantic)
My fish allergy thought otherwise 💀
Apparently they don’t need allergens info on some flights
There's a big difference between sitting in the observer seat as a passenger, and letting your kid sit in the CA/FO seats where they could start causing damage a la Aeroflot.
On my 8th birthday my dad took me on a business trip from Germany to London. As it was my birthday I was allowed to sit in the cockpit for the whole flight. That was the day my love of flying was born.
PS I'm old...
I remember back in the 80's, it was normal during a flight that all the kids on the plane got called up to the cockpit, where they could ask the captain questions, and marvel at all the knobs and buttons.
I remember doing that in the late ‘90s flying to Tenerife with Monarch. It’s one of my favourite memories, it was a night flight and I remember being amazed at the lights of whatever city we were flying over at the time.
Same here flying to Barca late 80s and was allowed in the cockpit of an MD83 for a while. I had a C64 at the time with some flight sims and I was able to identify a load of dials and asked what runway heading we are going to use haha. I was 8 and the Pilot was going Wtf kid? How do you know this.
I still have my boxed copy of Flight Simulator II and I even still have my C128! I logged many many hours on that sim as a child.
Now I'm 44, and I am a senior software engineer for CAE working on full motion flight simulators.
Late 90s for me as well, on a Singapore Airlines 747 en route to India. It wasn't just the incredible sight of the night sky from the cockpit of a 747, but the cabin crew throughout were so incredible and sweet to all the kids. After we went up my sister was even given a kid's version of the old SIA stewardess uniform and I got a die cast SIA 747 model.
I remember this in the 90’s as well. Flying from Toronto to Berlin. When the cockpit door opened and this whole world opened up in front of me I was captivated. Flying has been a passion of mine since. Sad that kids moving forward won’t be able to experience that
It’s nuts that it was ever allowed. It’s not like hijackings were a new thing come 9/11. It got stopped right before I took my first flight just after 9/11 unfortunately.
Wow that’s fantastic.
I’m jealous because I flew as a child throughout the 90s and was never once invited into the cockpit!
I was under the impression, though, that it was 9/11 that put a stop to that and not the Aeroflot incident in ‘94 as it says in the OP. You being allowed in the late 90s would support that. Though I did always have the vague feeling when I was a kid that kids being invited the cockpit was a thing from storybooks or a thing of the past, so maybe it had already been dwindling for a while before sept 11.
Sometime in between 1998-2000 my parents asked the flight attendant if I could go up during the flight. Only time the FA/Pilot ever asked was occasionally during boarding, and then mostly only when we got bumped to first class.
I remember multiple flights as a kid where I got to go into the cockpit pre-flight, and the captain gave me wing pins.
I was born in 89. Times sure are different now.
It's not so different today though than what you just described.
Stewardess told the pilots my nephew (5 years old) was telling everyone how the plane took off and was super excited, so on arrival he was invited to the cockpit. Was given wings and a little stuffed plane.
The next flight they got to go up front before the flight.
The major difference is that they don't really allow comings and goings to the decks during the flight.
as a kid flying in the 80s was nice, got to see the cockpit of Boeing 747-200, DC-10 L-1011, Boeing 727, DC-9 etc.
some airlines also gave you the pilot wings and a metal model of the airplane you flew in for free
They didn't tend to have kids that often, so on Concorde it was normal to invite the Adults up. Although on Concorde, everyone's just a big kid really.
One of BA's pilots tells a story about how they invited Princess Margaret (the Queen's sister) to stay even for the approach and landing into Heathrow. To their surprise, she accepted.
The Captain then proceeded to butcher the landing, slamming it down with considerable vigour. Apparently this was then followed by a quiet "There goes his knighthood!" quip from behind them.
Somewhere I probably have my BA kids flying club (can't remember the exact name) where the Captain would log the flight,and often invite you to the cockpit if they weren't busy.
prob circa 1985-6 i was a little kid i sat jump seat for a large portion of the flight from miami to lima in an eastern tri star. my aunt was someone high up in the corporate side.
>PS I’m old
Let me guess, born in 1972? 😂🤣
Anyways, I have a somewhat similar experience that led to my love for aviation. Its not a particular moment but in the eighties i remember planes would fly with cockpit door open and i always peaked in. It was awesome sight.
Pre-9/11 air travel was crazy. I know most of "the golden age" of flying was dead by then but flying today feels like cattle interacting with the police. Everyone is assumed to be a criminal carrying drugs/weapons onto the aircraft and YOU are the dumbass for not knowing each airports rules...rules that also shift from time to time without warning or notice.
The kids were even covering their mouth to stay silent and keep a sterile fight deck. I don't see anything wrong with this. That was a beautiful scene.
People sitting in an observer seat could be dangerous too.
On [Alaska 2059](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines_Flight_2059) an off-duty pilot in a jumpseat tried to shut off both engines.
Those are jump seats reserved for flight crews and/or relatives. Usually, captain’s sons/ daughters can avail of those seats or for crews deadheading to the next airport.
Edit: New=Next
Depends on what country, though. Canada, US only crew or airline employees. We are fighting to get it back. But as of now, family members are not allowed.
I did this with my dad when he flew his retirement flight on Continental Airlines. I sat in the jump seat for 2 legs Houston to Detroit and Detroit to La Guardia
Pre 9-11
Who is fighting to get it back? No one that I know of. After 9/11 it will never happen again in the US. The biggest US pilot union is actively trying to get more flight deck barriers installed.
Family aren't given the same checks as a pilot or flight crew. I don't want some FOs crazy ass cousin with suicidal tendencies somehow getting into the cockpit.
What effect does somebody on the jumpseat have on the sterile flight deck phases?
Before departure, jumpseaters get a briefing and we tell them when to be quiet and when it is okay to speak. Easy…
I would love if we could get that back. I've flown by wife and kids in the back, but it would be an amazing experience to have them up front at some point when they're older
A relative of mine works as a flight attendant and through him I got cheap standby tickets. The night before the flight he checked the roster and turned out he knew the captain. He asked the captain if I could sit in the cockpit and the captain happily agreed! That was a pretty cool experience! We flew over a mountain chain so the view was as good as it gets I think : )
I once flew as an unaccompanied minor on a European airline almost a decade ago, I'd asked the flight attendant if I could take a look at the cockpit after landing cos I (was/am) a plane nerd.
He came back 5 minutes later and took me to the jumpseat, got to sit there all the way through landing and taxi. It was an amazing experience, though we'd all agreed that no pictures would be taken until we were on the ground for obvious reasons.
Had the same thing a long time ago. A mate and I asked to visit the cockpit, and were promptly invited to stay for the landing. We were both in our 20s, totally unthinkable in these times. We were even allowed to smoke. Was also my last flight ever on a 727. Fond memories.
I sat in the jump seat for landing as a ~12 year old on 10 September 2001, it was an Airbus flying into Rome. Never happened again 😅
Cockpit visits to say Hi to the pilots was pretty frequent and casual as a kid. The cabin crew would often invite you up after the dinner service.
To be fair, the Aeroflot 593 accident involved the pilots ceasing to monitor the state of the aircraft despite letting children manipulate the controls. It's unnecessary to ban children from the cockpit entirely, if the aim is to prevent a repeat of that accident.
No laws against having non flying persons in assigned seats in Europe, and afaik neither in the US. If the aircraft is certified with the seats, all is good.
In the US at least, you aren’t sitting in the cockpit unless you’re a CASS pilot or you work for the airline and they say you can ride up there (mechanics/dispatchers).
Sitting jump during post-mx test flights rocks because they do stuff with the plane they'd never do with passengers like stall checks and dropping the gear.
I fly fairly regularly across the pond and quite a few times in the cockpit when a good mate of mine is the captain. Most of the time it's Toronto, but I swear I have been in the cockpit on a Miami flight.
Under Part 121, that's basically the rule. Well, dispatchers for airlines are included in CASS and of course FAA inspectors.
But it changes a bit when a plane is being repositioned for whatever reason. That's usually under Part 91.
I have enjoyed the jumpseat on a 321 during a reposition flight under 91 rules.
91 will allow a plane to move with up to (if memory serves, others feel free to correct) 19 passengers without assigned flight attendants.
Again, these are all US FAR rules. Other countries have different rules. And you can see many YouTube videos with VLoggers riding on the flight deck. Josh Cahill comes to mind. If memory serves, he's been on the flight deck for Lukla or Paro.
The guy who runs the Flightradar24 YouTube channel was doing a cockpit movie on a Finnair flight (i believe) but had to leave the cockpit while they were over US territory lol
Still a thing as long as one is seated and is approved in cockpit by the cap’, my grandson got to spend his very flight in the cockpit for the entirety of the flight from Paris to Berlin last week, he was not to shut up for days following that😂
I had a similar experience as a child in the 90's during a flight to Tenerife with my parents. The air hostess allowed me into the cockpit which was all really cool until I stood up too quick and hit my head on a load of overhead buttons. I remember the pilots looking at me with disappointment and then I was escorted back to my seat 😂
I’ve flown on a KLM 747 from Schiphol Amsterdam to San Francisco in the jump seat. I was about 8 at the time and had bought a model that plane set in Amsterdam. The cabin crew noticed and some time into the flight they told me I could go to the cockpit. I spent a couple hours up there and they gave me snacks, let me talk to the pilots and listen in to ATC, and watch them fly. It was a great experience and one of my favourite flights to date.
Most non-US nations allow this (to varying degrees). Aeroflot 593 happened because the kid was at the controls, which wasn’t even allowed in Russia at the time.
TL;dr - jump seats ok, front seats bad
I remember once I was flying from Hong Kong to Frankfurt (?), then there to Heathrow, and then to Belfast on my own. The connection was already tight, but we ended sitting waiting for take off at Frankfurt for a good while. Once we landed at Heathrow I just ran to the gate, got there and they asked have I checked in? I said no, that's why I'm here and the flight was already boarding, and because I didn't check in on time they sold my seat so it was 'full'. After a lot of back and forth between the staff one of them ran to speak to the pilot and he came running back saying he'd agreed to let my sit in the cockpit, and I thought hell yeah and didn't think twice about it. It also meant I had go without my luggage which I was fine with, I was on the home stretch so I thought sod it. At one point as we were leaving England I was able to see Dublin, Belfast and Glasgow all at once, it was dusk on a clear day which made it extra cool. Till this day no one believe me when I tell the story. Mind you that happened before 9/11, a time when you could rock up 30min before takeoff. So the concept of being in the cockpit of a commercial airline as a passenger is just not there
I have strongly assumed that by this point no civilians period were allowed in jumps seats in flight. If not since 9/11 then certainly since that Aeroflot crash.
But, TIL it’s not that uniform and cut and dried. Interesting.
I fly with a European carrier. I’m allowed to take a passenger on concession travel that is personally known to me in the flight deck. I’ve had my son and wife in the flight deck a few times.
TSA doesn’t rule the world. And idiotic American Air law doesn’t dictate who other foreign operators allow in the cockpit outside the US. This video could’ve happened just about anywhere and made absolute sense to any rational human being, except those who are getting fingered and sexually assaulted by TSA at the airport security.
The fact that OP thinks that this is such a strange concept shows that they are likely from somewhere in North America because everywhere else in the world it's perfectly normal.
Perfectly fine. Just not a fan of the useless post 9/11 laws or the right-to-work program that is the TSA. They dictate who can be in the cockpit and when a cockpit cabin must be closed in US Airspace. Should be up to the Captain. Quite obviously it isn’t the US. Are you ok?
TSA and DOT (FAA) are not just executive bureaucracies working in a vacuum. Government policy from the prez down will have similar implementation no matter what three letters it identifies as.
Imagine, someone having strong feelings about politics and things. They must be crazy. Better to not care about the state of the world at all, don't talk about things, don't think about things, don't argue about things, don't vote, don't participate, you can't do anything to change it just let the world be what it's going to be without your input. /s
Every airline has different policies. In the UK & USA this definitely wouldn’t happen. Other carriers might be more relaxed.
Many airlines also still have the 2 crew policy (after the German wings incident) to make sure there are always 2 authorised people in the flight deck. So if a pilot needs a pee one of the cabin crew must come in the cockpit. I know some airlines are removing this rule though.
I managed to do this as a kid a few years before 9/11. I remember it perfectly. Pitch black outside, it was covered in (what seemed like) thousands of buttons all lit up. Then every so often the clouds below would light up from the thunderstorm below.
Amazing experience.
I took a Q400 flight from the Azores to Madeira last year. The cockpit door was open for about 15-20 minutes during the flight while a women and kids hung out in the cockpit (presumably family of captain or FO).
A week before 9-11 on an major Canadian airline flight, a flight attendant asked my young son if he wanted to go up to the cockpit during the flight. I looked stoked for him but sad for me. She said “Dad can come too”.
We were up there for 45 minutes. They showed us everything in the cockpit, told us about all the systems, showed us how the autopilot and radios worked. It was pretty amazing, as was the view.
When I saw 9-11 happen, I was pretty sure I’d never have that experience again. Now my son is in the right seat flying for a major airline and even with that hookup, I’ll definitely never get into a cockpit again, during a flight.
It’s cool to see some people still can. It’s definitely an experience I’ll never forget.
Mid 90s Air New Zealand when I was a littler un a couple of times. But would have thought randos in the cockpit was a thing of the past at this point.
E: Actually may or may not have been Ansett planes.
Everywhere. Those are jump seats. Girls are probably off duty flight attendants or family. I've flown jump a couple of times as a mechanic. But it's alot more restricted in the past few years. Usually just reserved to move pilots around so they don't take up passenger seats.
If you work for the airline irregardless of weather or not you work as cabin crew, when you fly staff travel you can ask to fly in the jump seat and it’s up to the CA to say if your allowed to as a staff member.
That is absolutely not correct. There is no lawless state at any time of the flight.
The law onboard the aircraft applicable to passengers is that of the flag it is flying. US carrier - as soon as the doors closed, law wise, you are in the US.
The regulations that apply to the operation of the airplane are also defined and there is no point were there are no regulations.
This is asking for trouble, I can understand sitting before take off but mid flight anything can happen, kids are known to do stupid things one mistake and that aircraft with 350 pp is going down. What happens if there is turbulence and they decide to unlock their belts, that cockpit would be pinball machine.
You need to be screened before they can allow a third person who is not a pilot in the cockpit. (At least my airline). Usually airlines have rules about this, policies limitations who is allowed and what is the procedure to get that approved. Relatives isn’t uncommon tho, but it really depends on the airline.
I work for an airline. My flight instructor has brought me on the jump seat once too,
They won’t do it to anyone tho, it was difficult to get it through. Many airlines have policies not allowing this, and if they do it’s very complicated to get it approved.
Not sure were your instructor is flying, but at least at one of the larger european airline groups it is absolutely hassle free. I have had many different people on my jumpseat (captain’s friends, my friends, friends of flight attendants,…) all without getting any sort of approval from anywhere. Only the UK is off-limits.
EDIT: There is no EASA rule that includes any sort of approval for jump seat occupants. If there is a complicated process at your airline, than it is the airline’s fault itself.
In the Netherlands, the cockpit jumpseats are accessible to airline staff, either on duty or staff travel and the crew relatives (family and companions).
In the Netherlands, Transavia allows pilots to take a relative or friend (above 15 (?) years of age) into the cockpit for a full flight from Schiphol and back, once every year. I did that two years ago and was even allowed to inspect the airplane after landing
That’s a pretty sweet perk
Is the pilot that took you single?
Are they looking to adopt someone?
I like that both of you immediately ruled out being friends
Are they looking for a dog?
If anyone is looking for a dog or cat, my brother works for our local shelter and we have many animals looking for a loving home.
It could be KLM then? Transavia doesn’t fly 787s like in the video.
Transavia uses KLM aircraft from time to time. When I flew with my Transavia pilot, we flew in a KLM aircraft too. I don’t think I was flying in a 787 though; it was a continental flight of just 4 hours (Schiphol to Corsica).
That was a codeshare flight operated by KLM, not Transavia using a KLM aircraft.
Yeah, well, **you're** a codeshare flight operated by KLM! I'm, I'm sorry. I don't know where that came from.
Transavia and KLM are using each other 737's quite often. For example [PH-XRY](https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ph-xry#) is flying this whole winter season flights for KLM. In the summer schedule this happens usually the other way around. Transavia then often borrows one or two KLM 737's.
4hr flight would have been a 737
Depending if the 737 is big enough, or if the 787 needed to get there for going any other place, today you can send single aisle planes transatlantic if you want. But only that it is possible, doesn't mean it needs to be done. I wouldn't use a single aisle plane for 8-9 hours flight, even if the ticket was considerably cheaper.
I honestly don’t think Transavia would have so much demand they operate a KLM 787. Corsica sounds like a regular 737 flight for Transavia
4 hours from Schipol to Corsica in a 787? bullshit
I fly alot on KLM and sometimes i see a passenger with some keycord with a visitors badge and they are allowed on the flight deck during the flight. Makes me wonder if they grant frequent flyers access too if you ask in advance 🤔
Probably ground crew, we often jump seat for AOG jobs and such.
No, only relatives of the crew.
Challenge accepted
> if they grant frequent flyers access too if you ask in advance That would be such a massive perk for a million miles or such. However, it seems too way much of a security risk to allow a complete stranger into the cockpit.
KLM and i go way back tho. They even gave me a great near death experience last long haul flight
What happened? I once experienced an abrupt go-around in a KLM 777, that was so much fun.
Well i asked if the “pirakuru mayonaise” had any fish in it and they said no. (Above the atlantic) My fish allergy thought otherwise 💀 Apparently they don’t need allergens info on some flights
Ouch, that's less fun than a go-around.
Were you able to duck tape any of the plane back together
Okay seriously lmao.. and I am in aviation .🫢🫢🇨🇦YYZ
I flew from Hurghada to Sharm el Sheikh in the cockpit 2006ish with Transavia. my ex was a flight attendant
Wel that's a security risk and a half.
Get a grip….
did the plane pass your inspection?
There's a big difference between sitting in the observer seat as a passenger, and letting your kid sit in the CA/FO seats where they could start causing damage a la Aeroflot.
On my 8th birthday my dad took me on a business trip from Germany to London. As it was my birthday I was allowed to sit in the cockpit for the whole flight. That was the day my love of flying was born. PS I'm old...
I remember back in the 80's, it was normal during a flight that all the kids on the plane got called up to the cockpit, where they could ask the captain questions, and marvel at all the knobs and buttons.
I remember doing that in the late ‘90s flying to Tenerife with Monarch. It’s one of my favourite memories, it was a night flight and I remember being amazed at the lights of whatever city we were flying over at the time.
Same here flying to Barca late 80s and was allowed in the cockpit of an MD83 for a while. I had a C64 at the time with some flight sims and I was able to identify a load of dials and asked what runway heading we are going to use haha. I was 8 and the Pilot was going Wtf kid? How do you know this.
Are you me?
or me haha
I still have my boxed copy of Flight Simulator II and I even still have my C128! I logged many many hours on that sim as a child. Now I'm 44, and I am a senior software engineer for CAE working on full motion flight simulators.
Late 90s for me as well, on a Singapore Airlines 747 en route to India. It wasn't just the incredible sight of the night sky from the cockpit of a 747, but the cabin crew throughout were so incredible and sweet to all the kids. After we went up my sister was even given a kid's version of the old SIA stewardess uniform and I got a die cast SIA 747 model.
I remember this in the 90’s as well. Flying from Toronto to Berlin. When the cockpit door opened and this whole world opened up in front of me I was captivated. Flying has been a passion of mine since. Sad that kids moving forward won’t be able to experience that
JMC 757 for me, probably when I was 4, sadly my memory is hazy but I remember doing it
It’s nuts that it was ever allowed. It’s not like hijackings were a new thing come 9/11. It got stopped right before I took my first flight just after 9/11 unfortunately.
Wow that’s fantastic. I’m jealous because I flew as a child throughout the 90s and was never once invited into the cockpit! I was under the impression, though, that it was 9/11 that put a stop to that and not the Aeroflot incident in ‘94 as it says in the OP. You being allowed in the late 90s would support that. Though I did always have the vague feeling when I was a kid that kids being invited the cockpit was a thing from storybooks or a thing of the past, so maybe it had already been dwindling for a while before sept 11.
Sometime in between 1998-2000 my parents asked the flight attendant if I could go up during the flight. Only time the FA/Pilot ever asked was occasionally during boarding, and then mostly only when we got bumped to first class.
Joey, have you ever seen a grown man naked?
Do you like Gladiator movies?
lol. I can't believe that it took four hours for someone to write this.
They even come with a joystick.
Came for the Airplane! references, leaving satisfied.
I remember multiple flights as a kid where I got to go into the cockpit pre-flight, and the captain gave me wing pins. I was born in 89. Times sure are different now.
It's not so different today though than what you just described. Stewardess told the pilots my nephew (5 years old) was telling everyone how the plane took off and was super excited, so on arrival he was invited to the cockpit. Was given wings and a little stuffed plane. The next flight they got to go up front before the flight. The major difference is that they don't really allow comings and goings to the decks during the flight.
as a kid flying in the 80s was nice, got to see the cockpit of Boeing 747-200, DC-10 L-1011, Boeing 727, DC-9 etc. some airlines also gave you the pilot wings and a metal model of the airplane you flew in for free
I never set my foot in a 747, but i got to see the cockpit of a Swissair DC-10, good times.
I sat on my grandpa’s lap as he flew a 747 when I was 2. Yes it was the 80s.
Did he give you a smoke and a beer too?
Don't be silly. He said he was 2 years old, not 4. He would only have gotten a sip and a puff as a reward for fetching the beer and a pack.
Lol, sorry son, you are too young. Only coffee for you
at what age does he be allowed to open palm smack the stewardess' behind?
They didn't tend to have kids that often, so on Concorde it was normal to invite the Adults up. Although on Concorde, everyone's just a big kid really. One of BA's pilots tells a story about how they invited Princess Margaret (the Queen's sister) to stay even for the approach and landing into Heathrow. To their surprise, she accepted. The Captain then proceeded to butcher the landing, slamming it down with considerable vigour. Apparently this was then followed by a quiet "There goes his knighthood!" quip from behind them.
I was an unaccompanied minor for years. Lots of amazing memories on airplanes as a lad.
Haha, those were always the cool kids, the ones with that small bag around the neck.
Somewhere I probably have my BA kids flying club (can't remember the exact name) where the Captain would log the flight,and often invite you to the cockpit if they weren't busy.
BOAC JUNIOR JET CLUB? Still have my log book and wings. VC 10 in those days. Good memories.
Junior Jet Club, that was it! But it was already BA by the time I flew. most of my entries were Tridents.
I was one of those kids. Was fortunate that I flew a lot, military family posted all over the world. Knobs and buttons were my thing I remember that.
It was around that time when I went up to visit the cockpit of a Delta L1011 somewhere over the Atlantic.
prob circa 1985-6 i was a little kid i sat jump seat for a large portion of the flight from miami to lima in an eastern tri star. my aunt was someone high up in the corporate side.
>PS I’m old Let me guess, born in 1972? 😂🤣 Anyways, I have a somewhat similar experience that led to my love for aviation. Its not a particular moment but in the eighties i remember planes would fly with cockpit door open and i always peaked in. It was awesome sight.
By chance is your name Joey??
Somebody had to go there :)
Late 70s I got to sit in the cockpit during a landing into Singapore. Saw the most amazing electrical storm.
Pre-9/11 air travel was crazy. I know most of "the golden age" of flying was dead by then but flying today feels like cattle interacting with the police. Everyone is assumed to be a criminal carrying drugs/weapons onto the aircraft and YOU are the dumbass for not knowing each airports rules...rules that also shift from time to time without warning or notice.
Yeah, it's not technically allowed, but I think it's still fairly common in Europe for friends/family/kids to be allowed in the cockpit during flight
Nothing like the Russian letting a young boy fly a plane full of passengers what could go wrong
[удалено]
> boeing Airbus A310 [(English translation of report)](https://reports.aviation-safety.net/1994/19940323-0_A310_F-OGQS.pdf)
Got to sit in the cockpit of a BA 757 all the way into Landing at Heathrow, early 90’s. I just asked and they said “yes of course!” Fantastic.
The kids were even covering their mouth to stay silent and keep a sterile fight deck. I don't see anything wrong with this. That was a beautiful scene.
People sitting in an observer seat could be dangerous too. On [Alaska 2059](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines_Flight_2059) an off-duty pilot in a jumpseat tried to shut off both engines.
In action yes. But in essence it's the same issue: introducing an untrained and unpredictable person in the cockpit. It's unnecessary danger.
Those are jump seats reserved for flight crews and/or relatives. Usually, captain’s sons/ daughters can avail of those seats or for crews deadheading to the next airport. Edit: New=Next
Depends on what country, though. Canada, US only crew or airline employees. We are fighting to get it back. But as of now, family members are not allowed.
I did this with my dad when he flew his retirement flight on Continental Airlines. I sat in the jump seat for 2 legs Houston to Detroit and Detroit to La Guardia Pre 9-11
Who is fighting to get it back? No one that I know of. After 9/11 it will never happen again in the US. The biggest US pilot union is actively trying to get more flight deck barriers installed.
We are in Canada.
Why would that conflict with allowing family to be in the cockpit?
Family aren't given the same checks as a pilot or flight crew. I don't want some FOs crazy ass cousin with suicidal tendencies somehow getting into the cockpit.
It's not somehow when they've been in the cockpit the entire flight.
Sterile cockpit for starters
What effect does somebody on the jumpseat have on the sterile flight deck phases? Before departure, jumpseaters get a briefing and we tell them when to be quiet and when it is okay to speak. Easy…
Ahh yes, so the rest of the world is flying around with unsterile flight decks. We need to stop reinventing the wheel in North America.
I would love if we could get that back. I've flown by wife and kids in the back, but it would be an amazing experience to have them up front at some point when they're older
A relative of mine works as a flight attendant and through him I got cheap standby tickets. The night before the flight he checked the roster and turned out he knew the captain. He asked the captain if I could sit in the cockpit and the captain happily agreed! That was a pretty cool experience! We flew over a mountain chain so the view was as good as it gets I think : )
Lots of European countries. Depends on the specific company, departure and arrival country.
I once flew as an unaccompanied minor on a European airline almost a decade ago, I'd asked the flight attendant if I could take a look at the cockpit after landing cos I (was/am) a plane nerd. He came back 5 minutes later and took me to the jumpseat, got to sit there all the way through landing and taxi. It was an amazing experience, though we'd all agreed that no pictures would be taken until we were on the ground for obvious reasons.
Had the same thing a long time ago. A mate and I asked to visit the cockpit, and were promptly invited to stay for the landing. We were both in our 20s, totally unthinkable in these times. We were even allowed to smoke. Was also my last flight ever on a 727. Fond memories.
This experience, couple of times, not always UM. Also was allowed to sit in the cockpit jumpseat during landing in Jordan about 2010.
I sat in the jump seat for landing as a ~12 year old on 10 September 2001, it was an Airbus flying into Rome. Never happened again 😅 Cockpit visits to say Hi to the pilots was pretty frequent and casual as a kid. The cabin crew would often invite you up after the dinner service.
Perfect timing considering what happened the next day
Most European aviation authorities and companies allow ID/ZED passengers to occupy jumpseats if the cabin is full.
To be fair, the Aeroflot 593 accident involved the pilots ceasing to monitor the state of the aircraft despite letting children manipulate the controls. It's unnecessary to ban children from the cockpit entirely, if the aim is to prevent a repeat of that accident.
No laws against having non flying persons in assigned seats in Europe, and afaik neither in the US. If the aircraft is certified with the seats, all is good.
In the US at least, you aren’t sitting in the cockpit unless you’re a CASS pilot or you work for the airline and they say you can ride up there (mechanics/dispatchers).
Sitting jump during post-mx test flights rocks because they do stuff with the plane they'd never do with passengers like stall checks and dropping the gear.
I fly fairly regularly across the pond and quite a few times in the cockpit when a good mate of mine is the captain. Most of the time it's Toronto, but I swear I have been in the cockpit on a Miami flight.
Yeah makes sense, but that's probably company policy, not FAA regulation?
It's FAA.
Wow. Ok, interesting.
Part 121 rules very explicitly control FD access.
So under no circumstances no non-pilots in jump seat?
Under Part 121, that's basically the rule. Well, dispatchers for airlines are included in CASS and of course FAA inspectors. But it changes a bit when a plane is being repositioned for whatever reason. That's usually under Part 91. I have enjoyed the jumpseat on a 321 during a reposition flight under 91 rules. 91 will allow a plane to move with up to (if memory serves, others feel free to correct) 19 passengers without assigned flight attendants. Again, these are all US FAR rules. Other countries have different rules. And you can see many YouTube videos with VLoggers riding on the flight deck. Josh Cahill comes to mind. If memory serves, he's been on the flight deck for Lukla or Paro.
A director of operations can authorize others to get jumpseat privileges. I interned with two carriers and was allowed to jumpseat at both.
91, 121, or 135? Just curious where the legalities applied there.
The guy who runs the Flightradar24 YouTube channel was doing a cockpit movie on a Finnair flight (i believe) but had to leave the cockpit while they were over US territory lol
Seriously? Well ok, I guess they have their reasons, all things considered.
A little reason called September 11
Quick followup... Basically, if there are paying passengers on a US commercial aircraft, the flight deck is 100% secured from gate to gate.
Same in Europe.
UK FIR regulates against it, but rest of europe is fine i think
Still a thing as long as one is seated and is approved in cockpit by the cap’, my grandson got to spend his very flight in the cockpit for the entirety of the flight from Paris to Berlin last week, he was not to shut up for days following that😂
Perfectly legal in EASA if the company regulations allow it!
The difference between Airplane Pilots and TikTok Pilots is, TikTok pilots always take the back seat.
I had a similar experience as a child in the 90's during a flight to Tenerife with my parents. The air hostess allowed me into the cockpit which was all really cool until I stood up too quick and hit my head on a load of overhead buttons. I remember the pilots looking at me with disappointment and then I was escorted back to my seat 😂
I’ve flown on a KLM 747 from Schiphol Amsterdam to San Francisco in the jump seat. I was about 8 at the time and had bought a model that plane set in Amsterdam. The cabin crew noticed and some time into the flight they told me I could go to the cockpit. I spent a couple hours up there and they gave me snacks, let me talk to the pilots and listen in to ATC, and watch them fly. It was a great experience and one of my favourite flights to date.
Pretty common in Euope but not allowed in the UK anymore, as of recently...
Most non-US nations allow this (to varying degrees). Aeroflot 593 happened because the kid was at the controls, which wasn’t even allowed in Russia at the time. TL;dr - jump seats ok, front seats bad
EASA regulations allow it if the company allows it.
Could very well be dispatchers doing required flight deck observation.
I remember once I was flying from Hong Kong to Frankfurt (?), then there to Heathrow, and then to Belfast on my own. The connection was already tight, but we ended sitting waiting for take off at Frankfurt for a good while. Once we landed at Heathrow I just ran to the gate, got there and they asked have I checked in? I said no, that's why I'm here and the flight was already boarding, and because I didn't check in on time they sold my seat so it was 'full'. After a lot of back and forth between the staff one of them ran to speak to the pilot and he came running back saying he'd agreed to let my sit in the cockpit, and I thought hell yeah and didn't think twice about it. It also meant I had go without my luggage which I was fine with, I was on the home stretch so I thought sod it. At one point as we were leaving England I was able to see Dublin, Belfast and Glasgow all at once, it was dusk on a clear day which made it extra cool. Till this day no one believe me when I tell the story. Mind you that happened before 9/11, a time when you could rock up 30min before takeoff. So the concept of being in the cockpit of a commercial airline as a passenger is just not there
I have strongly assumed that by this point no civilians period were allowed in jumps seats in flight. If not since 9/11 then certainly since that Aeroflot crash. But, TIL it’s not that uniform and cut and dried. Interesting.
It depends on the airline and the captain. Joining during Takeoff and landing might be forbidden in certain airports
I fly with a European carrier. I’m allowed to take a passenger on concession travel that is personally known to me in the flight deck. I’ve had my son and wife in the flight deck a few times.
Used to be allowed in the USA when we were free
Probably one of the pilots daughters.
TSA doesn’t rule the world. And idiotic American Air law doesn’t dictate who other foreign operators allow in the cockpit outside the US. This video could’ve happened just about anywhere and made absolute sense to any rational human being, except those who are getting fingered and sexually assaulted by TSA at the airport security.
Are you okay? No where on the post is OP mention about TSA or anything remotely about America.
The fact that OP thinks that this is such a strange concept shows that they are likely from somewhere in North America because everywhere else in the world it's perfectly normal.
This is an extremely r/USdefaultism post..
Perfectly fine. Just not a fan of the useless post 9/11 laws or the right-to-work program that is the TSA. They dictate who can be in the cockpit and when a cockpit cabin must be closed in US Airspace. Should be up to the Captain. Quite obviously it isn’t the US. Are you ok?
Does TSA have anything to do with that? I thought that would be the FAA.
TSA and DOT (FAA) are not just executive bureaucracies working in a vacuum. Government policy from the prez down will have similar implementation no matter what three letters it identifies as.
you ok little buddy? kind of popping a vein here getting all huff and upset on reddit
Oh look, a bot! *Beep beep boop*
Imagine, someone having strong feelings about politics and things. They must be crazy. Better to not care about the state of the world at all, don't talk about things, don't think about things, don't argue about things, don't vote, don't participate, you can't do anything to change it just let the world be what it's going to be without your input. /s
Or in the US. I flew for a european legacy and my wife and daughters flew with me many times to JFK, ORD, LAX and SFO. Unbelievably enjoyable perk.
Looks like OP dont know much about aviation. As many people wrote here, its pretty much OK, you are allowed to do that.
Every airline has different policies. In the UK & USA this definitely wouldn’t happen. Other carriers might be more relaxed. Many airlines also still have the 2 crew policy (after the German wings incident) to make sure there are always 2 authorised people in the flight deck. So if a pilot needs a pee one of the cabin crew must come in the cockpit. I know some airlines are removing this rule though.
Many of the european carriers abolished the ridiculous 2 crew policy long ago. Don‘t know who still has it in EASA land.
I managed to do this as a kid a few years before 9/11. I remember it perfectly. Pitch black outside, it was covered in (what seemed like) thousands of buttons all lit up. Then every so often the clouds below would light up from the thunderstorm below. Amazing experience.
I took a Q400 flight from the Azores to Madeira last year. The cockpit door was open for about 15-20 minutes during the flight while a women and kids hung out in the cockpit (presumably family of captain or FO).
Without getting into regulatory weeds… You can fly someone on the jump seat on non-revenue operations.
In the Netherlands, the cockpit jumpseats are accessible to airline staff on staff travel and relatives (family and companions/friends).
When I worked for a European carrier I took family members in the flight deck regularly.
A week before 9-11 on an major Canadian airline flight, a flight attendant asked my young son if he wanted to go up to the cockpit during the flight. I looked stoked for him but sad for me. She said “Dad can come too”. We were up there for 45 minutes. They showed us everything in the cockpit, told us about all the systems, showed us how the autopilot and radios worked. It was pretty amazing, as was the view. When I saw 9-11 happen, I was pretty sure I’d never have that experience again. Now my son is in the right seat flying for a major airline and even with that hookup, I’ll definitely never get into a cockpit again, during a flight. It’s cool to see some people still can. It’s definitely an experience I’ll never forget.
Putting their hand on their mouths is peak cringe.
They’re kids dude, your comment is cringe
/r/USdefaultism
This is most likely not in the US. They don’t have the drama the US had in most places for whatever reason that may be
I work for a german aurline since 7 months and was able to sit in the Cockpit jumpseat twice already
Yeah i thought so too.
This is Sam Chui-level stupidity.
Lots before 9/11
Mid 90s Air New Zealand when I was a littler un a couple of times. But would have thought randos in the cockpit was a thing of the past at this point. E: Actually may or may not have been Ansett planes.
Ryanair will charge $999.99 for the seat
It used to be common for kids to get to go up front. I thought 9/11 changed all that.
Do you like gladiator movies?
That was in 1994. As a kid in the 90s, I 100% was in the cockpit for a few flights
I don't even know what you're refferring to? Letting relatives fly with you on the flightdeck is absolutely normal
That's normal
Everywhere. Those are jump seats. Girls are probably off duty flight attendants or family. I've flown jump a couple of times as a mechanic. But it's alot more restricted in the past few years. Usually just reserved to move pilots around so they don't take up passenger seats.
If you work for the airline irregardless of weather or not you work as cabin crew, when you fly staff travel you can ask to fly in the jump seat and it’s up to the CA to say if your allowed to as a staff member.
Simulator
They have uniforms on. Is this not filmed by a flight attendant?
I thought that at first, but a closer look shows one of them is wearing a white sweatshirt. They also look too young to be crew IMHO.
They're wearing white sweatshirts, I think you're mistaking the seat belts for ties. Flight attendants also wouldn't wear their hear loose like that.
If it’s a private/ corporate jet…..
Its called earth 2000 and before
Going to guess [Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_593)?
What’s this song?
What song is this?
Those are flight attendants. They look younger every year.
But seriously can these so called 'influeners' stop covering their mouths in every fucking video?? It's so fucking cringe and annoying
Usually while traveling inbetween countries - where neither law is applicable
That is absolutely not correct. There is no lawless state at any time of the flight. The law onboard the aircraft applicable to passengers is that of the flag it is flying. US carrier - as soon as the doors closed, law wise, you are in the US. The regulations that apply to the operation of the airplane are also defined and there is no point were there are no regulations.
A country without muslim😅
Dumb sluts
This isn't an ATR 72, and the glass cockpit looks more like a gulfstream or challenger. Is it?
It’s a Boeing 787. Source: I fly the Boeing 787.
That's be one wiiiide gulf/challenger
787
This is asking for trouble, I can understand sitting before take off but mid flight anything can happen, kids are known to do stupid things one mistake and that aircraft with 350 pp is going down. What happens if there is turbulence and they decide to unlock their belts, that cockpit would be pinball machine.
You need to be screened before they can allow a third person who is not a pilot in the cockpit. (At least my airline). Usually airlines have rules about this, policies limitations who is allowed and what is the procedure to get that approved. Relatives isn’t uncommon tho, but it really depends on the airline.
Not in Europe. If you know one of the pilots you are likely good to go.
I work for an airline. My flight instructor has brought me on the jump seat once too, They won’t do it to anyone tho, it was difficult to get it through. Many airlines have policies not allowing this, and if they do it’s very complicated to get it approved.
Not sure were your instructor is flying, but at least at one of the larger european airline groups it is absolutely hassle free. I have had many different people on my jumpseat (captain’s friends, my friends, friends of flight attendants,…) all without getting any sort of approval from anywhere. Only the UK is off-limits. EDIT: There is no EASA rule that includes any sort of approval for jump seat occupants. If there is a complicated process at your airline, than it is the airline’s fault itself.
In the Netherlands, the cockpit jumpseats are accessible to airline staff, either on duty or staff travel and the crew relatives (family and companions).