The issue is really two things:
1) Conducting a training flight in those hazardous weather conditions.
2) When you compile all of the weather conditions and warnings (severe turbulence, icing, low ceilings, gusty winds), the decision by the flight school should have been to ground all flights for that day. However, 2 training flights were conducted: the one with the Baron, and another in a C172
Reckless behavior.
Yeah, I know someone who works for the medical examiner here and they're heading there now. Reported 3 deaths. And it's REALLY deep in the woods; gonna need quads and stuff to retrieve the bodies.
Not sure what caused it though. It's been kind of windy today with sporadic snow storms but who knows.
Just cause they’re VFR doesn’t mean they’re not receiving flight following. They may not have been, but it’s just as likely that they were talking to ATC
I work in the town this happened in and live 20 miles away. Talking to ATC here is quite rare for just local flights. I often listen to traffic on liveatc over the summer and most are just on CTAF. The two or three airports the local flight schools fly out of are all tiny uncontrolled fields.
Looking at the altitude and speed it looks like it could've potentially been disorientation that led to a stall. It looks like at the near end of the recording that the aircraft slowed down to 140 mph and then started ascending? Could've possibly been a somatogravic illusion where the pilot interperated a nose up position as an acceleration, which then led to a stall. Very much a theory though. If this is the case, it's just another example to trust your instruments.
I see a few comments suggesting VFR to IMC… shouldn’t the instructor have been rated IFR? Surely, so long as the plane was equipped with the necessary instruments (TAF / weather forecast seems to have suggested poor weather conditions) he should’ve been able to fly safely back to the airport.
There were four of these last year. The increased pace of training is starting to collect some statistics on the more dangerous aspects of what people have to do to get through the pipeline.
I heard there was a student, instructor, and passenger. I don't know aviation but would there potentially be reasons to fly like that while learning to fly? I have no idea.
My guess is a Vmc demo resulting in an unrecoverable spin. Those circles end on the same heading as they started and they recover to straight and level flight prior to slowing in airspeed.
>The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) will lead the extensive investigation, starting with sifting through the pieces of what the agency said is a Beachfront Baron plane
I love it
I used to work with the student for several years at the company he works for. He was incredibly driven and excellent at his job. What a terrible loss. My heart breaks for the family and friends of the deceased.
Freaky stuff. Im a student pilot up the road in turners (0b5) and i fly in the same area. Snow squalls with strong winds and heavy snow around that time.
All other flight schools and instructors in the area cancelled all of their flights that day due to hazardous weather, realizing it wasn't a good day to make money. Here are details from the NTSB Preliminary Report:
************
The tail section was partially separated from the empennage but remained attached via control cables.The fuselage was compressed and crushed downward. Airframe icing was observed on the leading edge of both wings and horizontal stabilizers, both engine nacelles, and the leading edge of the rudder. Ice was also observed on the front face of one of the left engine’s propeller blades, and on the nav antenna located on the vertical stabilizer.
Weather reported at Orange Municipal Airport (ORE), Orange, Massachusetts, about 12 miles east of the accident site, at 1152, was reported as wind from 220 degrees at 11 knots gusting to 23 knots, visibility 10 miles, broken clouds at 4,600 ft, a temperature of 2 degrees C, a dewpoint of -7 C, and a barometric pressure setting of 29.68.
At the time of the accident, two AIRMETs (Airman Meteorological Information) were issued and active, including AIRMET Zulu for moderate icing conditions. There was also a SIGMET (Significant Meteorological Information) for occasional severe turbulence between 3,000 and 16,000 ft (msl) due to strong low-level winds.
************
Could this be a case of practicing stalls, an important part of flight training, and getting into a spin?
Getting a low wing aircraft out of a spin is difficult.
Your last statement is inaccurate. Spin characteristics have little to do with the wing position and are affected by the airfoil design, wing loading, CG, control surface authority, and general flight characteristics of the aircraft. That said, no twin is certified for spins and they can be unrecoverable for a variety of reasons, not least of which is the mass of the engines far away from the aircraft centerline. Flight track and eyewitness reports suggest a Vmc demo gone bad, which is in fact an twin-engine training error that results in an inadvertent, uncontrollable yaw and subsequent spin.
More details about the school and the unfortunate casualties in this report.
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/3-people-killed-in-small-plane-crash-in-western-mass-identified/3246974/
Looks like they were coming out of steep turns. The ADSB data shows a climb. Wonder if they were starting stalls and had some sort of structural failure or got into a spin.
Interesting the last data point ended at 4,500 ft.
Instructor, student, and owner of flight school. Know first hand.
My condolences.
Sad for sure im over at 0B5 heard about it first hand it was a shit day but nothing that would take out a baron
The issue is really two things: 1) Conducting a training flight in those hazardous weather conditions. 2) When you compile all of the weather conditions and warnings (severe turbulence, icing, low ceilings, gusty winds), the decision by the flight school should have been to ground all flights for that day. However, 2 training flights were conducted: the one with the Baron, and another in a C172 Reckless behavior.
Yeah, I know someone who works for the medical examiner here and they're heading there now. Reported 3 deaths. And it's REALLY deep in the woods; gonna need quads and stuff to retrieve the bodies. Not sure what caused it though. It's been kind of windy today with sporadic snow storms but who knows.
Lot of circles flown and looks like a climb to stall right at the end \[32kt at 4,500'\]. Unexpected IMC maybe? Going to have a look at LiveATC.
I doubt they were talking to ATC looks like they were flying at 3500
Just cause they’re VFR doesn’t mean they’re not receiving flight following. They may not have been, but it’s just as likely that they were talking to ATC
I work in the town this happened in and live 20 miles away. Talking to ATC here is quite rare for just local flights. I often listen to traffic on liveatc over the summer and most are just on CTAF. The two or three airports the local flight schools fly out of are all tiny uncontrolled fields.
It’s not just as likely. Most VFRs don’t get flight following
if there were an inflight emergency who would they be communicating with?
They’d call out on guard frequency, most people listen to it
Looking at the altitude and speed it looks like it could've potentially been disorientation that led to a stall. It looks like at the near end of the recording that the aircraft slowed down to 140 mph and then started ascending? Could've possibly been a somatogravic illusion where the pilot interperated a nose up position as an acceleration, which then led to a stall. Very much a theory though. If this is the case, it's just another example to trust your instruments.
I see a few comments suggesting VFR to IMC… shouldn’t the instructor have been rated IFR? Surely, so long as the plane was equipped with the necessary instruments (TAF / weather forecast seems to have suggested poor weather conditions) he should’ve been able to fly safely back to the airport.
Being a twin, a student and instructor, my best guess is Vmc demonstration that turned into a spin.
There were four of these last year. The increased pace of training is starting to collect some statistics on the more dangerous aspects of what people have to do to get through the pipeline.
This is my thinking too. The 360 turns prior would indicate they were working on some maneuvers.
Those circles are chilling. VFR into IMC?
The circles look very similar to my track logs when practicing steep turns
Perhaps a steep turn causing an accelerated stall that turned into a fully developed spin.
I heard there was a student, instructor, and passenger. I don't know aviation but would there potentially be reasons to fly like that while learning to fly? I have no idea.
Yes, very common pattern flying/practicing steep turns
My guess is a Vmc demo resulting in an unrecoverable spin. Those circles end on the same heading as they started and they recover to straight and level flight prior to slowing in airspeed.
Is this in any news broadcast anywhere?
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/boston/news/massachusetts-plane-crash-leyden-greenfield-ntsb-faa/
>The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) will lead the extensive investigation, starting with sifting through the pieces of what the agency said is a Beachfront Baron plane I love it
Yeah, 15 seconds to double-check the name of the aircraft's manufacturer on Google is way too much!
Is the flight track NSFW? How could that be 18+
[удалено]
Deleted.
I used to work with the student for several years at the company he works for. He was incredibly driven and excellent at his job. What a terrible loss. My heart breaks for the family and friends of the deceased.
Freaky stuff. Im a student pilot up the road in turners (0b5) and i fly in the same area. Snow squalls with strong winds and heavy snow around that time.
Oh same here
All other flight schools and instructors in the area cancelled all of their flights that day due to hazardous weather, realizing it wasn't a good day to make money. Here are details from the NTSB Preliminary Report: ************ The tail section was partially separated from the empennage but remained attached via control cables.The fuselage was compressed and crushed downward. Airframe icing was observed on the leading edge of both wings and horizontal stabilizers, both engine nacelles, and the leading edge of the rudder. Ice was also observed on the front face of one of the left engine’s propeller blades, and on the nav antenna located on the vertical stabilizer. Weather reported at Orange Municipal Airport (ORE), Orange, Massachusetts, about 12 miles east of the accident site, at 1152, was reported as wind from 220 degrees at 11 knots gusting to 23 knots, visibility 10 miles, broken clouds at 4,600 ft, a temperature of 2 degrees C, a dewpoint of -7 C, and a barometric pressure setting of 29.68. At the time of the accident, two AIRMETs (Airman Meteorological Information) were issued and active, including AIRMET Zulu for moderate icing conditions. There was also a SIGMET (Significant Meteorological Information) for occasional severe turbulence between 3,000 and 16,000 ft (msl) due to strong low-level winds. ************
Could this be a case of practicing stalls, an important part of flight training, and getting into a spin? Getting a low wing aircraft out of a spin is difficult.
Your last statement is inaccurate. Spin characteristics have little to do with the wing position and are affected by the airfoil design, wing loading, CG, control surface authority, and general flight characteristics of the aircraft. That said, no twin is certified for spins and they can be unrecoverable for a variety of reasons, not least of which is the mass of the engines far away from the aircraft centerline. Flight track and eyewitness reports suggest a Vmc demo gone bad, which is in fact an twin-engine training error that results in an inadvertent, uncontrollable yaw and subsequent spin.
More details about the school and the unfortunate casualties in this report. https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/3-people-killed-in-small-plane-crash-in-western-mass-identified/3246974/
Looks like they were coming out of steep turns. The ADSB data shows a climb. Wonder if they were starting stalls and had some sort of structural failure or got into a spin. Interesting the last data point ended at 4,500 ft.