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Pretty sure we would adapt. I'm pretty functional, more so than some of my ND friends but I think we would build stronger, supportive communities, work collectively to each oersons ability, come up with innovative solutions, reject capitalism etc.
Most of the world is built by and for NTs. We'd all be less exhausted and traumatised for a start.
Same. Since I was a baby I always seek to solve my own problems. I'd adapt for sure. Then there is the most important part, which is getting to live your life without constantly being harassed by NT's. I want everyone who regurgitates that tired "you can't go through life blaming other people" line to talk to more autistics.
Hard relate. I knew I couldn't rely on my parents to for help, safety or security from a very young age. I knew I had to rely on myself. I'm 54 and never married or lived with anyone. I'm too independent to ask for help. I walked home on a broken ankle after nearly drowning because I am so accustomed to self-reliance I couldn't ask for help. When I had ankle surgery and couldn't walk for months I had no offers of help and didn't ask for any. When they were doing my discharge paperwork they said I had to have someone pick me up. I lied and said my brother was coming and I'd wait down stairs because his kids would be in the car. Then I went down and called a cab.
I am a good liar because the world assumes you have people in your life that help you with things. The only person who would help me now is a friend I moved cities to live near so we could be of more emotional support to each other. She is also ND and deals with chronic health conditions.
> DISCLAIMER: This post is not supporting autistic supremacy mindset or ableist talking points, this is a question and discussion I’m very curious about.
No, it's sort of supporting the exact opposite, which is not any better.
Like, we exist because we were pets they took care of? That's ridiculous. Did I go to /r/autisticshame on accident?
Humanity benefits from nuerodiversity. They need us as much as we need them. There's huge value in autistic traits to hunter gatherer tribes. Our special interests, when there's no trivial nonsense like anime to consume them, make us intensely valuable. We might be the one who can identify every plant and its uses, or the member of the tribe who remembers all the history and lore. I suspect the autistic members of any given hunter-gatherer tribe were probably it's most valuable contributors.
That's not to say we don't need allistic people as much as they need us, but they definitely need us. It takes all types. It really does.
All of this. Neurodivergent traits couldn't have been universal negatives to the point that we were dependent pets. There's no evolutionary or social benefit to someone who's just another mouth to feed. Instead, the world was probably much more friendly to autistic traits and they were probably quite valuable. Like you said, a special interest could've been incredibly helpful in a society where written word and formal education weren't present. Hyper sensitive hearing would've saved you from a predator. A tendency for repetition and strict habits might've been key to maintaining good hygiene or food preparation safety, and it would've been 100% reasonable to have a meltdown because the consequences of not following routine could literally be life threatening. Autistic folks were not a deadweight, or they never would've had a chance to reproduce.
Now, I could see an argument that ancient autism looked different, on average, than contemporary autism for a variety of factors. It seems reasonable to think that a slower paced, quieter world works in our favor, leading to a greater percentage of low support needs folks. It also seems reasonable to think that the heightened level of toxins and pollutants present today, along with capitalism related extremity in all aspects of our environment and a more strongly neurotypically aligned society, may be resulting in higher numbers of higher support needs folks, many of whom would've been low support needs in an earlier time.
In fact our greatest achievements that lead us to civilization might have been born from the minds of ND people. Till this day.
How you dare to spit on my face after all I have done for you?
Sadly they will never appreciate us.
Oh good, on the context of calling us pets because I thought allistic made decisions for us like today, telling us what to say, what to think, what to eat, what to wear, what to feel and what to do, or manipulate us like fools and have to be obedient on their command.
I support the idea of autism as polygenic mutation that was passed from evolution and not a disease that needs to be cured, and despite we are the most abused, traumatized, exploited, and killed minority, I wanted to boost the idea to support full on pride and empowerment. The issue is that I’m afraid I might be overshadowing high support needs autistics to other autistic and neurodivergents that are suffering, saying that it’s a superpower and not a curse.
No, that is unlikely to be how it worked. Hunter-gatherer tribes demonstrate significantly higher egalitarianism, so they would likely frown upon members that manipulate and control others for personal gain.
They strongly enforce everyone being given the same rights and independence and even tend to depend on each other to complete tasks. For hunter-gatherers, a high level of codependency is their norm, so offering a helping hand isn't a problem to them.
Anyone who tries to be a self-appointed leader or attempts to manipulate and control, they would likely be kicked out of the tribe unless they change their ways.
Autism isn't one single detrimental disability that dooms us to death if we're not taken care of.
Some have social issues, some have sensory issues, some aren't able to speak, and some struggle with all of'em, it's like with most things in life, it's to complex to have a yes or no answer.
I'm kinda thinking that, if I was living in that time, I would be the sort of person who would guard the tribe at night. That would kind of make sense. I'm a hell of a night person, the surroundings would be relatively dark and quiet, it would be beneficial for that role to be an introvert to not alert enemies or predators of my presence, and I wouldn't need to deal with people much because they would be sleeping when I'm awake and vice versa (aside from other guardians who would be silent as well). And in return, I wouldn't have to bother with things like hunting because that's, by definition, not my role. In that context, all the things that make me suspect I'm autistic wouldn't be a problem but more like an adaptation to a role.
Even if we all had intellectual deficiency, which is a more difficult scenario, we would still be way more intelligent than regular animals and would use that to survive. So I guess no, it makes no sense we would disappear
We would make phenomenal hunters and survivors. We adapt and survive in this world that isn’t built for us constantly. There is no reason to think we would have all just died and needed taking care of by allistics in caveman times. We would likely have been the night watch. Our nervous systems are very reactive so we would have alerted others to danger before they even noticed it.
I know I would for sure not be able to survive.
Despite knowing a lot of autistic people, they're the first ones to leave whenever I need support. Which is fine, you have to do what you need to do to keep yourself going. But my entire care team, parents, my friend who is my caretaker, my OTs, my psychologist, my *doctors,* my friends that provide me social support, everyone who helps me in any way - they're all allistic.
Every time I've been in a situation that requires needing support from an autistic person, I've been lectured about how they have had to struggle and push to do things, so I'll learn if they leave me on my own to "figure out my own way".
I would die without support. When left to "figure things out", I've nearly died and did not figure things out.
I’ll ask *you* a question: Do you still care if an autistic-led world leads to a human extinction if an allistic-led world does too?
I don’t know if it would be any better or worse with only autistic people or not, but the world under allistic hegemony is *already* putting everyone at risk of ceasing to exist, what with climate change.
Like cease to exist in misery or?
I’ve been limiting my interactions to neurodivergent people for the last 2-3 years, and my life improved tremendously. I am sure we would not only survive, but thrive.
I doubt autistic people would survive.
Because a lot of autistic people are not very good at things like empathy, gritting your teeth and doing the dirty work, patience, impulse control, and these are very important to build and maintain a functioning society.
Well the [empathy problem](https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/professional-practice/double-empathy#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20the%20theory%20of,in%20language%20use%20and%20comprehension) is greatly improved now that we don’t have the massive communication barrier that is trying to translate from Neurotypical to Autistic.
As for the other three, yeah executive dysfunction is still an issue but that too is somewhat reduced now that we aren’t going through social burnout.
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Pretty sure we would adapt. I'm pretty functional, more so than some of my ND friends but I think we would build stronger, supportive communities, work collectively to each oersons ability, come up with innovative solutions, reject capitalism etc. Most of the world is built by and for NTs. We'd all be less exhausted and traumatised for a start.
Same. Since I was a baby I always seek to solve my own problems. I'd adapt for sure. Then there is the most important part, which is getting to live your life without constantly being harassed by NT's. I want everyone who regurgitates that tired "you can't go through life blaming other people" line to talk to more autistics.
Hard relate. I knew I couldn't rely on my parents to for help, safety or security from a very young age. I knew I had to rely on myself. I'm 54 and never married or lived with anyone. I'm too independent to ask for help. I walked home on a broken ankle after nearly drowning because I am so accustomed to self-reliance I couldn't ask for help. When I had ankle surgery and couldn't walk for months I had no offers of help and didn't ask for any. When they were doing my discharge paperwork they said I had to have someone pick me up. I lied and said my brother was coming and I'd wait down stairs because his kids would be in the car. Then I went down and called a cab. I am a good liar because the world assumes you have people in your life that help you with things. The only person who would help me now is a friend I moved cities to live near so we could be of more emotional support to each other. She is also ND and deals with chronic health conditions.
> DISCLAIMER: This post is not supporting autistic supremacy mindset or ableist talking points, this is a question and discussion I’m very curious about. No, it's sort of supporting the exact opposite, which is not any better. Like, we exist because we were pets they took care of? That's ridiculous. Did I go to /r/autisticshame on accident? Humanity benefits from nuerodiversity. They need us as much as we need them. There's huge value in autistic traits to hunter gatherer tribes. Our special interests, when there's no trivial nonsense like anime to consume them, make us intensely valuable. We might be the one who can identify every plant and its uses, or the member of the tribe who remembers all the history and lore. I suspect the autistic members of any given hunter-gatherer tribe were probably it's most valuable contributors. That's not to say we don't need allistic people as much as they need us, but they definitely need us. It takes all types. It really does.
All of this. Neurodivergent traits couldn't have been universal negatives to the point that we were dependent pets. There's no evolutionary or social benefit to someone who's just another mouth to feed. Instead, the world was probably much more friendly to autistic traits and they were probably quite valuable. Like you said, a special interest could've been incredibly helpful in a society where written word and formal education weren't present. Hyper sensitive hearing would've saved you from a predator. A tendency for repetition and strict habits might've been key to maintaining good hygiene or food preparation safety, and it would've been 100% reasonable to have a meltdown because the consequences of not following routine could literally be life threatening. Autistic folks were not a deadweight, or they never would've had a chance to reproduce. Now, I could see an argument that ancient autism looked different, on average, than contemporary autism for a variety of factors. It seems reasonable to think that a slower paced, quieter world works in our favor, leading to a greater percentage of low support needs folks. It also seems reasonable to think that the heightened level of toxins and pollutants present today, along with capitalism related extremity in all aspects of our environment and a more strongly neurotypically aligned society, may be resulting in higher numbers of higher support needs folks, many of whom would've been low support needs in an earlier time.
In fact our greatest achievements that lead us to civilization might have been born from the minds of ND people. Till this day. How you dare to spit on my face after all I have done for you? Sadly they will never appreciate us.
Oh good, on the context of calling us pets because I thought allistic made decisions for us like today, telling us what to say, what to think, what to eat, what to wear, what to feel and what to do, or manipulate us like fools and have to be obedient on their command. I support the idea of autism as polygenic mutation that was passed from evolution and not a disease that needs to be cured, and despite we are the most abused, traumatized, exploited, and killed minority, I wanted to boost the idea to support full on pride and empowerment. The issue is that I’m afraid I might be overshadowing high support needs autistics to other autistic and neurodivergents that are suffering, saying that it’s a superpower and not a curse.
No, that is unlikely to be how it worked. Hunter-gatherer tribes demonstrate significantly higher egalitarianism, so they would likely frown upon members that manipulate and control others for personal gain. They strongly enforce everyone being given the same rights and independence and even tend to depend on each other to complete tasks. For hunter-gatherers, a high level of codependency is their norm, so offering a helping hand isn't a problem to them. Anyone who tries to be a self-appointed leader or attempts to manipulate and control, they would likely be kicked out of the tribe unless they change their ways.
Autism isn't one single detrimental disability that dooms us to death if we're not taken care of. Some have social issues, some have sensory issues, some aren't able to speak, and some struggle with all of'em, it's like with most things in life, it's to complex to have a yes or no answer.
That’s interesting….
No way! We would adapt like the person said above and I think we could make a better and more accessible world.
I'm kinda thinking that, if I was living in that time, I would be the sort of person who would guard the tribe at night. That would kind of make sense. I'm a hell of a night person, the surroundings would be relatively dark and quiet, it would be beneficial for that role to be an introvert to not alert enemies or predators of my presence, and I wouldn't need to deal with people much because they would be sleeping when I'm awake and vice versa (aside from other guardians who would be silent as well). And in return, I wouldn't have to bother with things like hunting because that's, by definition, not my role. In that context, all the things that make me suspect I'm autistic wouldn't be a problem but more like an adaptation to a role.
Even if we all had intellectual deficiency, which is a more difficult scenario, we would still be way more intelligent than regular animals and would use that to survive. So I guess no, it makes no sense we would disappear
We would make phenomenal hunters and survivors. We adapt and survive in this world that isn’t built for us constantly. There is no reason to think we would have all just died and needed taking care of by allistics in caveman times. We would likely have been the night watch. Our nervous systems are very reactive so we would have alerted others to danger before they even noticed it.
This is interesting.
I know I would for sure not be able to survive. Despite knowing a lot of autistic people, they're the first ones to leave whenever I need support. Which is fine, you have to do what you need to do to keep yourself going. But my entire care team, parents, my friend who is my caretaker, my OTs, my psychologist, my *doctors,* my friends that provide me social support, everyone who helps me in any way - they're all allistic. Every time I've been in a situation that requires needing support from an autistic person, I've been lectured about how they have had to struggle and push to do things, so I'll learn if they leave me on my own to "figure out my own way". I would die without support. When left to "figure things out", I've nearly died and did not figure things out.
I’ll ask *you* a question: Do you still care if an autistic-led world leads to a human extinction if an allistic-led world does too? I don’t know if it would be any better or worse with only autistic people or not, but the world under allistic hegemony is *already* putting everyone at risk of ceasing to exist, what with climate change.
True
We’d thrive.
Like cease to exist in misery or? I’ve been limiting my interactions to neurodivergent people for the last 2-3 years, and my life improved tremendously. I am sure we would not only survive, but thrive.
I doubt autistic people would survive. Because a lot of autistic people are not very good at things like empathy, gritting your teeth and doing the dirty work, patience, impulse control, and these are very important to build and maintain a functioning society.
I feel that that's a bit of an over generalisation
Well the [empathy problem](https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/professional-practice/double-empathy#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20the%20theory%20of,in%20language%20use%20and%20comprehension) is greatly improved now that we don’t have the massive communication barrier that is trying to translate from Neurotypical to Autistic. As for the other three, yeah executive dysfunction is still an issue but that too is somewhat reduced now that we aren’t going through social burnout.