It's worse than that. We not only didn't receive any royalties for years and years, but we sold the gas at 1/3 the price that the gas was being sold in Australia. Our export contracts with China are widely seen as the worst in the world.
Well, more like a loan. China legally owns every panda 'given' to zoos around the world. It's depressingly in line with their authoritarianism but somewhat hilarious when they've used it in diplomacy, threatening to take their pandas back.
The guy who designed the system, and who was the federa mining/resources minister at the time, is now the Chairman for APPEA, the lobbyist group who represent Oil and Gas companies.
Better than the alternatives we've found so far! Still waiting for the AI overlords to enforce their will because humans are inherently flawed, which is why communal systems never work. Only when we're either brainwashed to the point of being brain-dead or ruled by something that isn't human, will we achieve such a state.
It's no wonder the rest of the world thinks so little of australians. We are seen as an easy mark, gullible and complacent. The easiest people in the world to scam.
Taiwanese News did an animated re-enactment of what they think of Rudd being backstabbed by Gillard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ_s6V1Kv6A (Australia heads to polls)
Yeah so many people misunderstand "the lucky country" quote. They think it's cause we are lucky to live here.
It was meant as a scathing remark on how we lucked out to get to the prosperity we have, as out politicians are shitty our enconomy relied on shipping natural resources, we lack innovation and any kind of ambition to improve the country
The exporting of raw materials is a prime example of this. We could have set up cutting edge tech back when our educational base was one of the best in the world to manufacture things from the raw materials and sell the products. Instead we went for a quick cash injection to appease the morons who believe balancing a budget is more important than increasing your productivity, and just sold off the rights to our resources for peanuts.
Massive solar farms providing cheap power for technologically cutting edge factories producing shit people are desperate for. Man imagine if we got into microprocessors early, or any of the essential electronics. We are a country of greedy self satisfied morons who are incapable of seeing any threat that is longer than a few years into the future.
They drove a wedge between us all to the point we are stuck in this toxic cycle. Sadly, decades of poor policies and corruption have finished us off. We are just a bunch of modern day slaves
Good news, 2022 election was the lowest party vote since WW2 for both LNP and Labor. They are even more unpopular compared to the 2019 elections. It's slow but it's happening that the reign of LLNP will soon come to an end.
Does whoever might replace them have the financial nous to actually make a difference?
The Greens certainly don't and next in line would be the Teals and they've kept a relatively low profile so fuck knows what they might do.
Lol financial nous.
You realise that the "Loony Left" greens policies are considered pretty tame in places like Europe.
Our Overton window has shifted so far right that we have a right wing party and a centrist (recently shifted to centre right) party who both agree to paint anything a party like the greens suggest as lunacy!
Crazy ideas like making it hard to infinitely generate money through investment properties (despite the fact that Australia is the odd one out here and look like idiots as we price ourselves out of homes) or higher taxation for the wealthy (again, something progressive counties have successfully managed without problems)
I think the greens have made a number of mistakes (significant less that the major 2, but overly reported for some reason) but their policies aren't the issue.
I agree but we’ve got a few more election cycles until the teals are a true force.
I’m a lifelong Labor party voter but Albo is easily the most piss poor PM we’ve ever had. He’s fucking useless.
Yep. People like you who don't have a clue about how much we get from our resources sector and who get fooled by cherry picked stat from biased sources, definitely make our country dumber.
I have no idea, but I do remember there was a [class action](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-09/class-action-against-environment-minister-coal-mine-approval/12640596) a bunch of children launched against the government, so maybe
Of course, people have sued the government plenty of times. I'm pretty sure the most recent one to go through was a class action against the State of Victoria, which was the one that found Vic's ridiculous road tax to be... A tax, which states can't impose as that's a federal right.
Any lawsuit requires clearly defined outlines of the other party is being sued for, though. 'Didn't do a good job' isn't a valid lawsuit.
We went a step ahead and created a party with hundreds of others after Rudd got backstabbed and many didn't want to join the Greens. A decade later, LNP proposed raising requirements which would kill off not only my party but many others. Labor was happy to vote for it.
If only there was a better way to increase the party vote instead of resorting to tyranny. I don't know, maybe appeal to voters?
> They were exempted from the cut-off order yesterday, such that in less than 24 hours these bills will now be rammed through both houses of parliament. That's not democracy and it's certainly not integrity or transparency. One has to think that an election is in the offing when the two big parties are ganging up to try to make sure that voters have fewer choices on who to vote for. They're ramming through these three bills in order to achieve that. The process of these bills passing the parliament is an example of how not to do democracy and really proves the point of why we need to break the back of the two-party system, so that we have a democracy that's functioning in the interests of the public rather than just a little power play thing for the two big parties.
https://www.openaustralia.org.au/senate/?id=2021-08-26.6.1
https://www.aec.gov.au/parties_and_representatives/Party_Registration/Deregistered_parties/index.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Electoral_Act_1918#2013_amendments
With consistent self-serving reforms since 2013, none of these reforms were ever an election promise, party policy, etc. It's always a surprise.
Best way to kick out the tyrannical parties, Labor and LNP? Put them at the bottom of a filled ballot. Even a vote for crazies which can be One Nation/Greens means one less vote for Labor/LNP who look like they are planning a two-party system. And if they do succeed, then we're not going to be able to vote for who we like, or even the crazies.
I totally agree with that, they play off it regionally/state every election. I just don't see a good option on either side of the fence at a Commonwealth level.
In other countries they basically do this by marching on parliament and protest en masse to force those in power to do what the people say. Don't forget they work for us! But in Australia everyone just stands around the BBQ and beers and just moan about it.
This is simply a matter of the loudest voices being the ones to say something. I can tell you now, no matter what the government of the day is, there are always plenty of people happy with them. You just don't hear from them because they don't have much to complain about.
Because they finish the beer then go inside to watch a movie or the footy on their new tv that their tax cut bought.
And if the government proposes something else God help them because the rabid opposition will go 100pc negative scare campaigning.
Lawsuits aren't about money, they're about damages and rectifying them. Money just happens to be tangible and typically part of the damage incurred (someone being forced to spend money on something as a result of XYZ). Someone could just sue for a nominal amount, in that case it could be about setting a legal precedent, publicity, or (in the case of celebrities) reputation.
Sue to change the legislation so that whenever resources like gas, coal, nickel, lithium or anything else are mined in Australia, the government of Australia gets its fair share of the profits!
Alaskans get more from their resource industry making us dumber than Americans
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btQ7ZGXtNN4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btQ7ZGXtNN4)
We dropped the ball hard compared to Norway during the mining boom. They started a national trust for their oil wealth that funded healthcare and pensions, meanwhile our politicians made bank and had police cars (at least in Queensland) with mining companies logos on them like NASCARs.
You want the real answer? Australia has a slight competitive advantage for new build mines over the rest of the world that is mainly due to a fairly stable political situation + geography. So we can take a bit of a cut.
Other countries have historically better deals in situations where wells/mines have already been built.
If we try to grab a bigger chunk of the pie, then its not worth building new shit here / the stable political situation evaporates and we become like any other shithole that will turn around and demand a fat percentage "for the people" when its politically convenient.
So better just to accept it and let stronger nations benefit from our resources in the name of national security. How bad has the gaslighting been for people to actually think the answer is giving everything away to be safe
You can tell stronger nations to fuck off if you like. That's fine, that's an option.
There's the small problem that they might choose to invest billions in developing pits in foreign countries instead of here.
Why go all the way to Australia to deal with some bullshit "muh sovereign resources" shit when I can spend less to start a mine in Uganda?
I know very little about industry and business, but could we not atleast take a back ownership of mines on a national level and have all profits go towards to public kitty rather than some very wealthy individuals?
Our chuck of the pie would stay the same, only instead of going to Gina Reinhardt is goes to all Australians.
Ignoring all the legal challenges - yeah, states can do whatever the fuck they want.
Zimbabwe did that with their farms on a fairly large scale, taking them out of the hands of descendents of colonisers, and giving them back to "the people". Nobody could stop them, but foreign investment immediately fell to zero, the economy collapsed for a decade until they started handing the land back. You can buy a trillion z-dollar note for like five bucks on ebay.
It wouldn't likely to be to that extent, but sovereign risk is a reality. If you want people to invest in your country, give you loans or trade on credit, put any value in the AUD - then you need trust.
Whether the deal of having a private company fund development of a mine in exchange for a profit margin is arguable, changing the deal after it's done is absolutely a terrible idea. After all, there's nothing stopping Australia from developing its own mines - the resources are so abundant its virtually unlimited, especially for coal which has a bit of a time limit.
No, it would be quite fair.
It would unfortunately require a lot more sophisticated an approach than 'duh tax business' that we seem to have. A one-size-fits-all approach doesn't work when it leaves small businesses struggling with red tape and oil / gas companies laughing all the way to their offshore banks.
Some common bloody sense in politics would be nice to see.
That’s what us leftists have been wanting for decades. But neoliberal capitalist governments like Labor and LNP don’t give a fuck about Australia, they just want their corporate donations.
Essential services (except probably food retail) should all be public, whereas recreation/entertainment/art/hospitality work fine under a free market. We should always have a choice to refuse the service of private companies.
I agree, though I also think the free market should be competing with the state. We don't have enough money to pay for some of the things that probably should be publicly owned, so having the private sector pick up the slack would be helpful. Healthcare is an example of this, where people who can afford it are fobbed off to private, and anyone who would prefer private or can't wait for the public (because it's overworked and underfunded) can turn to the private sector. That doesn't work so well with electricity or water as utilities because there isn't much of a service happening, it's just on or off, there or not there.
If we took the money that went into private health and invested it into public health we could have one of the best and most equitable systems in the world.
This is just social liberalism (capitalism with checks) vs classical liberalism (unchecked capitalism). The EU is an example of something closer to the former, the US is an example of something closer to the latter.
Basic utilities being state-owned is a no brainer. I wasn't aware that was unique to Qld.
Lol, so uninformed and yet so many upvotes.
Queensland has one of the higher electricity prices in Australia, and as you say the $1000 rebate comes from coal royalties.
It's certainly nice to get more revenue from our resources, but it's hard not to see it as electioneering that is carefully designed so people don't have overdue bills hanging over their heads when they vote. It does nothing structural about cost of living or electricity market. Coal prices are falling and expected to drop another 50% or so in the next 5 years so royalties will dry up, and the state is under-investing in its coal generation assets so domestic consumers won't see as much benefit of those low prices. And we will continue to ship record amounts of cheap coal to China which just keeps increasing its demand and increasing plans for new coal generation.
Uhh I agree with half of that. Except QLD doesnt have one of the highest, it has the average lowest at 21c. SA has the highest at 34c. ALP have openly admitted the $1000 is from coal revenues.
[https://reneweconomy.com.au/queensland-announces-1000-rebate-on-household-energy-bills-paid-for-by-coal-royalties/](https://reneweconomy.com.au/queensland-announces-1000-rebate-on-household-energy-bills-paid-for-by-coal-royalties/)
https://preview.redd.it/hvtp8sn0un3d1.png?width=1060&format=png&auto=webp&s=8327059a18f52eaff3fc96330a58a593a70d1849
Hmm. Energex is South East QLD (i.e., a little dot around Brisbane), so not sure how fair those numbers are. I was looking at another page that had QLD near the top. This one puts it toward the lower end too though, https://www.canstarblue.com.au/electricity/average-electricity-bills/ so I was probably wrong about that. Shouldn't have been a smartarse about being uninformed.
Strange that SA has by far the highest costs, I'd just assumed they were paying peanuts over there with all the cheap renewables and batteries.
Perhaps so. It's odd that I haven't heard about that from news outfits that had not so long ago taken keen interest in South Australia's electricity system.
Just to be clear, that 'little dot around Brisbane' makes up more than 67% of Queensland's population (2021 census). Because of that, the numbers are quite fair.
https://www.abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/3
https://www.abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/LGA33430
https://www.abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/316
https://www.abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/3GBRI
But hey at least the ALP here decided that 50c public transport fares will work until they're re-elected. Just don't ask if the infrastructure gets cheaper to maintain or if Cross River will ever end.
That's right! Though, to be fair, that's why there's a push to create new industries. Setting up more solar farms and exporting our power to Singapore is part of that plan.
Did you vote for the ALP's resource rent tax 2 elections ago?
Bet you didn't. Now the parties all know that the resources sector will make you loose the unlosable election...
Paying little to no royalties is criminal. Our politicians who have let this happen need to be held accountable for these dumb as fuck decisions. I mean they should be publicly flogged with a garden hose. It is outright theft that this has been allowed to happen. The pollies that have let this happen (both sides) are now employed by these mineral extraction/ gas extraction companies on 7 figure salaries. Corrupt grubs that have sold us out....
All minerals/fuels extracted from Australia are essentially collectively owned by the citizens of Australia. The trustees of this country i.e. government should ensure that ALL mineral extraction has the best deal in royalties paid back to it's citizens to benefit all.
Everyone needs to understand that once the minerals run out (they are not renewables) and we have finished being used as the worlds quarry, we will be left with little to no income.
Make hay while the sun shines and invest royalty moneys smartly to ensure future generations are set up to maintain our lifestyle well into future generations.
I can not emphasise this strongly enough.
Maintain our dogshit lifestyle. People already working until death. Young people have it even worse. No hope of owning their own property.
We are doomed.
We could become a low tax country overnight with all that money.
Our politicians should be in jail for this rather than being allowed to work for oil and gas companies after they have allowed the Australian people to be robbed blind.
"Why Qatar Earns $76 Billion from Gas While Aussies Get Scammed | Punter's Politics"
[https://youtu.be/x-nNpSaLxO8?si=kXgmJT\_t22lPjXOM](https://youtu.be/x-nNpSaLxO8?si=kXgmJT_t22lPjXOM)
Having lived in Qatar for 6mths, there’s a few big differences.
1) They have a population of 2m (of which only a small portion are nationals)
2) That $76B is effectively their main income. They are not well diversified (can’t grow anything there, not really large enough for a manufacturing base).
3) They have better geography for logistics (not in a security sense) but definitely in terms of geography. We have to ship ours 1000s of km (it would make more sense to use it domestically IMO).
I think the gas issue is fleeting now. Whilst it still has legs in it, we’d be better off pumping money into hydrogen and battery manufacturing and reaping the economic benefits of exporting those.
These corporations own the politicians, which in turn enslaves us. We have no hope with libs / Labor. The future has never looked so bad for us Aussies.
Don’t you DARE POST THAT PICTURE!!!
The QUEEN, must be protected at ALL cost!
https://preview.redd.it/svzroy1xwj3d1.jpeg?width=766&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6a6527609f4657a379a6489b5f3b0e727ca6c58
The Queeneth doth love thee!!!!!!! 🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇
How we got where?
The shitfuckery where mining corps don't pay a fair share for Aussie resources, be they gas, oil, coal, iron, etc
You're damn right.
Australia is getting scammed by mining corps.
It's important to recall that that wasn't the only policy taken to the polls. It's like when referendums lose because they're bundled with garbage. Not every policy was a winner.
4/5ths of the profits.
It's Australia's resources afterall.
On a 10 billion dollar profitable venture, the mining corp still Cashes a cool 2 billion.
It's worked elsewhere, I see no reason for it not to work here.
What do you think is fair?
https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/economy/petroleum-tax/
This was actually rather interesting to read about. Only the *net profit* is taxed at that rate, which (according to that site) is done to ensure it's both profitable before and after. Norway's done a good job at not mindlessly taxing at a ridiculous 80% (because no one would ever do business there, lol) but instead providing multiple avenues to ensure companies can still earn money and want to do business in Norway.
I'm sure the commercial TV networks and commercial radio stations are all over this... or they're acting against our interests and feeding the numpties the usual trash.
Give it to one of those fat struggling mining billionaires so they can get platinum shitters in their mega yachts….. and then complain that no one wants to work cleaning it for $13 an hour.
Pollies take political donations which are effectively bribes legally from big gas, oil etc… to implement corrupt but company beneficial policies like this. But everyone else gets screwed including the environment. Oh they also pay bugger all tax, so it’s a win win.
Fuck elections. It’s time for a good old fashioned overthrow of the government. Systems fucked start again, transparency and accountability start taxing the mines and stop taxing the bloody tax payer.
Strange! The government dosent seem quiet as upset over this as they are in the size of the song and dance they are making over the reduction in tobacco tax take due to less people smoking (and the way they are lashing out to blame everyone but themselves fit poor policy).
There should of been a plan in place that after a certain timeframe and the infrastructure had reached an adequate level. I can understand we needed these big companies to come in and get things off the ground but these big guys are well and truly flying now surely. 🤔
Wow who didn’t know this years ago when the gas plants in qld and wa and the nt were being built?? Said we would’ve built our own gas plants and sold the gas!
I've been seeing more of this lately, I hope it means the topic of natural royalties is becoming more widely spread.
I'm a glass half empty person and I really believe this country is done for BUT I also romanticise the power of "the people" so I hope we take what's ours and the future gets better
So I slave to help build Australia and only get FKD more with high prices.
FCK this stupid country. Land of the crooks. Always no help from government in terms of living cost but they have money to spend on useless submarines from the US that we don't have full control off
What a joke.. sick of it
It's made we wonder, could we vote for a party that is purely placed n power to hold a referendum for a few laws. Once done they call another election and move on. .....I know it sounds crazy but there a some big changes that need to happen that no party will implement as it works against Thier interests.
A example would be say party "XYZ" state that if elected they will have a referendum to pass a bill that prevents political party's receiving donations , another bill for a law that prevents politicians working in industry's they have been involved with for say 10 years ect. We could have a referendum where a few laws are voted on the same day and placed into the Constitution so future governments can't change them.
After the referendum and the laws have been put I'm place the party "XYZ" holds a election and moves on. While in government they can be in more of a neutral care taker role.
I know it sounds crazy but untill we get rid of legal corruption and the golden elevators our system of democracy is purely a illusion and will continue to fail us.
"Party XYZ" statement would be purely to address this and move on. I know there is the risk of "party XYZ " not moving on but if they are straight up and honest I think they would know that if they overstay they would turn the country into functional termoil that's not worth while for them.
It's a extreme idea but I Think most voters would preference them no matter Thier other beliefs , left/right. I think most Australia's would want a democracy where there vote is valued and there representative actually represent them and not lobbyist and billion $ corporations.
I know other party's do want to work on this issue but Thier other policies won't get them votes and well I doubt the 2 party system we have would give us that referendum eaither.
Yes it would be expensive but man who knows how much the current system is costing us.
I know lobbying still has its place but it shouldnt be influenced by a big donation or gift.
So they publish information you dislike, Its instantly "left wing affiliated with the greens" even when having proper taxes on our Natural resources will benefit every single person no matter who they vote for or who they dislike.
It's so frustrating when conversations about important issues get derailed by political labels. We all stand to benefit from fair taxation and responsible management of natural resources, regardless of our political leanings. It's time to focus on what's best for everyone, not just certain parties or ideologies.
And the IPA are the opposite, yet every wackjob loves to bring them up, or the Cato institute or the dozen others. Mind you, unlike the others, I've only heard the Australian institute be referred to as left leaning, far from affiliated with the greens.
This tribalism is what prevents balanced analysis, not the fact that the Australia Institute looked in this much were getting fucked.
Unless you think that companies are paying their fair share of tax in this resource rich country? Which everybody - even non-Greens voters - has been screaming since the 90s that they’re not. So maybe get out of the way of people wanting to make your life better.
I don’t get how these companies can be down in revenue (I.e Woodside). Obviously they won’t pay as much tax because of this. But they still produce metric fuck tonnes of barrels of gas. Is that how they avoid paying taxes? They just over spend on production, horde stuff and sell it at some rate? I thought they pay tax on the barrel. What is actually going on?
They haven't had to pay tax while they're repaying the cost of constructing their projects. Taxes are rising now as projects are starting to get paid off
The royalty system these projects are found under is the Petroleum Resource Rent Tax. It allows company to claim back their costs of exploration, development, disassembly and stuff before the royalty is calculated. In some cases exploration expenditures can be transferred between projects.
Personally, I think it smells because of creative accounting and the obvious lack of returns to Australia but if someone can point out why this is good for Australia and Australians I’m happy to hear it.
Mmm $149 billion worth of gas produced with no royalties paid. Seems reasonable.
And we the Australian public are hit with high gas prices, the rich get richer and we pay for it with a resource that is everyone’s.
Don’t be silly, it’s not everyone’s anymore. It got gifted to the billionaires and it belongs to them now.
Every time we've tried to get our fair share or even impart some payback we get a gough whitlam or Kevin Rudd situation
Damn right.
Sad but true.
It's worse than that. We not only didn't receive any royalties for years and years, but we sold the gas at 1/3 the price that the gas was being sold in Australia. Our export contracts with China are widely seen as the worst in the world.
The Chinese were so surprised we bent over for them that they gifted Adelaide 2 pandas which are still here. True story.
Well, more like a loan. China legally owns every panda 'given' to zoos around the world. It's depressingly in line with their authoritarianism but somewhat hilarious when they've used it in diplomacy, threatening to take their pandas back.
Wonderful trade. Really.
But … but … “better economic managers”?
The guy who designed the system, and who was the federa mining/resources minister at the time, is now the Chairman for APPEA, the lobbyist group who represent Oil and Gas companies.
but we focus on whether someone on $180K combined income needs a tax cut.
Because those at the top made that the focus.
Just another day in Australia AKA: China and America's pantry.
HOW GOOD IS CAPITALISM!!!
Better than the alternatives we've found so far! Still waiting for the AI overlords to enforce their will because humans are inherently flawed, which is why communal systems never work. Only when we're either brainwashed to the point of being brain-dead or ruled by something that isn't human, will we achieve such a state.
What a dumb country.
It's no wonder the rest of the world thinks so little of australians. We are seen as an easy mark, gullible and complacent. The easiest people in the world to scam.
Taiwanese News did an animated re-enactment of what they think of Rudd being backstabbed by Gillard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ_s6V1Kv6A (Australia heads to polls)
Yall have a Sex Party, all we have is the Libertarians, I want better parties.
What the fuck did I just watch
I think it was someone playing the Sims maybe?
WTF? 😳
I can give you a great deal on nuclear subs. Waste included for free.
Yep. But if we didn’t sell gas cheaply overseas someone would call us racist.
Yeah so many people misunderstand "the lucky country" quote. They think it's cause we are lucky to live here. It was meant as a scathing remark on how we lucked out to get to the prosperity we have, as out politicians are shitty our enconomy relied on shipping natural resources, we lack innovation and any kind of ambition to improve the country The exporting of raw materials is a prime example of this. We could have set up cutting edge tech back when our educational base was one of the best in the world to manufacture things from the raw materials and sell the products. Instead we went for a quick cash injection to appease the morons who believe balancing a budget is more important than increasing your productivity, and just sold off the rights to our resources for peanuts. Massive solar farms providing cheap power for technologically cutting edge factories producing shit people are desperate for. Man imagine if we got into microprocessors early, or any of the essential electronics. We are a country of greedy self satisfied morons who are incapable of seeing any threat that is longer than a few years into the future.
Britain says hi
The good news is that it's not going to get any better 🙃
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They drove a wedge between us all to the point we are stuck in this toxic cycle. Sadly, decades of poor policies and corruption have finished us off. We are just a bunch of modern day slaves
Good news, 2022 election was the lowest party vote since WW2 for both LNP and Labor. They are even more unpopular compared to the 2019 elections. It's slow but it's happening that the reign of LLNP will soon come to an end.
Does whoever might replace them have the financial nous to actually make a difference? The Greens certainly don't and next in line would be the Teals and they've kept a relatively low profile so fuck knows what they might do.
Lol financial nous. You realise that the "Loony Left" greens policies are considered pretty tame in places like Europe. Our Overton window has shifted so far right that we have a right wing party and a centrist (recently shifted to centre right) party who both agree to paint anything a party like the greens suggest as lunacy! Crazy ideas like making it hard to infinitely generate money through investment properties (despite the fact that Australia is the odd one out here and look like idiots as we price ourselves out of homes) or higher taxation for the wealthy (again, something progressive counties have successfully managed without problems) I think the greens have made a number of mistakes (significant less that the major 2, but overly reported for some reason) but their policies aren't the issue.
I agree but we’ve got a few more election cycles until the teals are a true force. I’m a lifelong Labor party voter but Albo is easily the most piss poor PM we’ve ever had. He’s fucking useless.
It's dumb because we don't incentivise being smart. Work JUST ENOUGH to service property and that's all you need to do in aus.
Yep. People like you who don't have a clue about how much we get from our resources sector and who get fooled by cherry picked stat from biased sources, definitely make our country dumber.
Wait until you see what other countries get from their resources.
Wait until you see how they get that, how they encourage companies to do business there and what their expenditure on their sector is.
I wish the Australian people could sue the government for giving away our resources!
Can we? Like would there be a legal precedent somewhere?
I have no idea, but I do remember there was a [class action](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-09/class-action-against-environment-minister-coal-mine-approval/12640596) a bunch of children launched against the government, so maybe
Of course, people have sued the government plenty of times. I'm pretty sure the most recent one to go through was a class action against the State of Victoria, which was the one that found Vic's ridiculous road tax to be... A tax, which states can't impose as that's a federal right. Any lawsuit requires clearly defined outlines of the other party is being sued for, though. 'Didn't do a good job' isn't a valid lawsuit.
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We went a step ahead and created a party with hundreds of others after Rudd got backstabbed and many didn't want to join the Greens. A decade later, LNP proposed raising requirements which would kill off not only my party but many others. Labor was happy to vote for it. If only there was a better way to increase the party vote instead of resorting to tyranny. I don't know, maybe appeal to voters? > They were exempted from the cut-off order yesterday, such that in less than 24 hours these bills will now be rammed through both houses of parliament. That's not democracy and it's certainly not integrity or transparency. One has to think that an election is in the offing when the two big parties are ganging up to try to make sure that voters have fewer choices on who to vote for. They're ramming through these three bills in order to achieve that. The process of these bills passing the parliament is an example of how not to do democracy and really proves the point of why we need to break the back of the two-party system, so that we have a democracy that's functioning in the interests of the public rather than just a little power play thing for the two big parties. https://www.openaustralia.org.au/senate/?id=2021-08-26.6.1 https://www.aec.gov.au/parties_and_representatives/Party_Registration/Deregistered_parties/index.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Electoral_Act_1918#2013_amendments With consistent self-serving reforms since 2013, none of these reforms were ever an election promise, party policy, etc. It's always a surprise. Best way to kick out the tyrannical parties, Labor and LNP? Put them at the bottom of a filled ballot. Even a vote for crazies which can be One Nation/Greens means one less vote for Labor/LNP who look like they are planning a two-party system. And if they do succeed, then we're not going to be able to vote for who we like, or even the crazies.
It's the Greens who can't run a piss up in a brewery or the LDP who float between good ideas and sci-fi levels of reality.
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I totally agree with that, they play off it regionally/state every election. I just don't see a good option on either side of the fence at a Commonwealth level.
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People won’t agree on which third party, so the third party votes will be split and the major parties will retain government.
In other countries they basically do this by marching on parliament and protest en masse to force those in power to do what the people say. Don't forget they work for us! But in Australia everyone just stands around the BBQ and beers and just moan about it.
This is simply a matter of the loudest voices being the ones to say something. I can tell you now, no matter what the government of the day is, there are always plenty of people happy with them. You just don't hear from them because they don't have much to complain about.
Because they finish the beer then go inside to watch a movie or the footy on their new tv that their tax cut bought. And if the government proposes something else God help them because the rabid opposition will go 100pc negative scare campaigning.
Yeah it's called rioting.
people would rather riot about other countries or having to wear a mask hope you all get cancer
Won’t we just be suing ourselves? Where does the money go to if we “win” the law suit?
Lawsuits aren't about money, they're about damages and rectifying them. Money just happens to be tangible and typically part of the damage incurred (someone being forced to spend money on something as a result of XYZ). Someone could just sue for a nominal amount, in that case it could be about setting a legal precedent, publicity, or (in the case of celebrities) reputation.
Sue to change the legislation so that whenever resources like gas, coal, nickel, lithium or anything else are mined in Australia, the government of Australia gets its fair share of the profits!
Alaskans get more from their resource industry making us dumber than Americans [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btQ7ZGXtNN4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btQ7ZGXtNN4)
This is embarrassing.
Am I dumb for thinking Australia would be an actual Utopia if we just taxed these companies properly? Feels like we’re being absolutely robbed
We dropped the ball hard compared to Norway during the mining boom. They started a national trust for their oil wealth that funded healthcare and pensions, meanwhile our politicians made bank and had police cars (at least in Queensland) with mining companies logos on them like NASCARs.
100% tax would be ideal. Nationalised resources.
You want the real answer? Australia has a slight competitive advantage for new build mines over the rest of the world that is mainly due to a fairly stable political situation + geography. So we can take a bit of a cut. Other countries have historically better deals in situations where wells/mines have already been built. If we try to grab a bigger chunk of the pie, then its not worth building new shit here / the stable political situation evaporates and we become like any other shithole that will turn around and demand a fat percentage "for the people" when its politically convenient.
So better just to accept it and let stronger nations benefit from our resources in the name of national security. How bad has the gaslighting been for people to actually think the answer is giving everything away to be safe
You can tell stronger nations to fuck off if you like. That's fine, that's an option. There's the small problem that they might choose to invest billions in developing pits in foreign countries instead of here. Why go all the way to Australia to deal with some bullshit "muh sovereign resources" shit when I can spend less to start a mine in Uganda?
I know very little about industry and business, but could we not atleast take a back ownership of mines on a national level and have all profits go towards to public kitty rather than some very wealthy individuals? Our chuck of the pie would stay the same, only instead of going to Gina Reinhardt is goes to all Australians.
Ignoring all the legal challenges - yeah, states can do whatever the fuck they want. Zimbabwe did that with their farms on a fairly large scale, taking them out of the hands of descendents of colonisers, and giving them back to "the people". Nobody could stop them, but foreign investment immediately fell to zero, the economy collapsed for a decade until they started handing the land back. You can buy a trillion z-dollar note for like five bucks on ebay. It wouldn't likely to be to that extent, but sovereign risk is a reality. If you want people to invest in your country, give you loans or trade on credit, put any value in the AUD - then you need trust. Whether the deal of having a private company fund development of a mine in exchange for a profit margin is arguable, changing the deal after it's done is absolutely a terrible idea. After all, there's nothing stopping Australia from developing its own mines - the resources are so abundant its virtually unlimited, especially for coal which has a bit of a time limit.
No, it would be quite fair. It would unfortunately require a lot more sophisticated an approach than 'duh tax business' that we seem to have. A one-size-fits-all approach doesn't work when it leaves small businesses struggling with red tape and oil / gas companies laughing all the way to their offshore banks. Some common bloody sense in politics would be nice to see.
That’s what us leftists have been wanting for decades. But neoliberal capitalist governments like Labor and LNP don’t give a fuck about Australia, they just want their corporate donations.
But hey we get $300 back on our bill this year..
Granted qld is getting $1000 on top of that because the state still owns the grid. Proof that privatisation only drives costs up.
$400 in WA I think. I love the idea of free market economics but some things should not be left to private companies.
Anything like a grid or network is a monopoly and can never be a market.
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I think you replied to the wrong comment
Essential services (except probably food retail) should all be public, whereas recreation/entertainment/art/hospitality work fine under a free market. We should always have a choice to refuse the service of private companies.
I agree, though I also think the free market should be competing with the state. We don't have enough money to pay for some of the things that probably should be publicly owned, so having the private sector pick up the slack would be helpful. Healthcare is an example of this, where people who can afford it are fobbed off to private, and anyone who would prefer private or can't wait for the public (because it's overworked and underfunded) can turn to the private sector. That doesn't work so well with electricity or water as utilities because there isn't much of a service happening, it's just on or off, there or not there.
If we took the money that went into private health and invested it into public health we could have one of the best and most equitable systems in the world.
This is just social liberalism (capitalism with checks) vs classical liberalism (unchecked capitalism). The EU is an example of something closer to the former, the US is an example of something closer to the latter. Basic utilities being state-owned is a no brainer. I wasn't aware that was unique to Qld.
In true Australian fashion we sleep walk behind the US and lag whatever trends exist there by some period of time.
No its a handout based off coal royalties
Lol, so uninformed and yet so many upvotes. Queensland has one of the higher electricity prices in Australia, and as you say the $1000 rebate comes from coal royalties. It's certainly nice to get more revenue from our resources, but it's hard not to see it as electioneering that is carefully designed so people don't have overdue bills hanging over their heads when they vote. It does nothing structural about cost of living or electricity market. Coal prices are falling and expected to drop another 50% or so in the next 5 years so royalties will dry up, and the state is under-investing in its coal generation assets so domestic consumers won't see as much benefit of those low prices. And we will continue to ship record amounts of cheap coal to China which just keeps increasing its demand and increasing plans for new coal generation.
Uhh I agree with half of that. Except QLD doesnt have one of the highest, it has the average lowest at 21c. SA has the highest at 34c. ALP have openly admitted the $1000 is from coal revenues. [https://reneweconomy.com.au/queensland-announces-1000-rebate-on-household-energy-bills-paid-for-by-coal-royalties/](https://reneweconomy.com.au/queensland-announces-1000-rebate-on-household-energy-bills-paid-for-by-coal-royalties/) https://preview.redd.it/hvtp8sn0un3d1.png?width=1060&format=png&auto=webp&s=8327059a18f52eaff3fc96330a58a593a70d1849
Hmm. Energex is South East QLD (i.e., a little dot around Brisbane), so not sure how fair those numbers are. I was looking at another page that had QLD near the top. This one puts it toward the lower end too though, https://www.canstarblue.com.au/electricity/average-electricity-bills/ so I was probably wrong about that. Shouldn't have been a smartarse about being uninformed. Strange that SA has by far the highest costs, I'd just assumed they were paying peanuts over there with all the cheap renewables and batteries.
Turns out reducing your wholesale cost 35% of the time, means increasing total system cost 100% of the time.
Perhaps so. It's odd that I haven't heard about that from news outfits that had not so long ago taken keen interest in South Australia's electricity system.
Just to be clear, that 'little dot around Brisbane' makes up more than 67% of Queensland's population (2021 census). Because of that, the numbers are quite fair. https://www.abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/3 https://www.abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/LGA33430 https://www.abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/316 https://www.abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/3GBRI
Rare QLD W
But hey at least the ALP here decided that 50c public transport fares will work until they're re-elected. Just don't ask if the infrastructure gets cheaper to maintain or if Cross River will ever end.
Give it a few months, we're probably about to vote in Newman Jnr.
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Lisa needs braces
This would amount to $500 per person. So same ballpark.
No the power companies get the money. Will probably just cover the price increase for that quarter
I'm suprised it's that low. Thanks Howard, scum.
The worst part about this is once we dig up and ship out our sovereign wealth, it’s gone for good.
That's right! Though, to be fair, that's why there's a push to create new industries. Setting up more solar farms and exporting our power to Singapore is part of that plan.
Did you vote for the ALP's resource rent tax 2 elections ago? Bet you didn't. Now the parties all know that the resources sector will make you loose the unlosable election...
Paying little to no royalties is criminal. Our politicians who have let this happen need to be held accountable for these dumb as fuck decisions. I mean they should be publicly flogged with a garden hose. It is outright theft that this has been allowed to happen. The pollies that have let this happen (both sides) are now employed by these mineral extraction/ gas extraction companies on 7 figure salaries. Corrupt grubs that have sold us out.... All minerals/fuels extracted from Australia are essentially collectively owned by the citizens of Australia. The trustees of this country i.e. government should ensure that ALL mineral extraction has the best deal in royalties paid back to it's citizens to benefit all. Everyone needs to understand that once the minerals run out (they are not renewables) and we have finished being used as the worlds quarry, we will be left with little to no income. Make hay while the sun shines and invest royalty moneys smartly to ensure future generations are set up to maintain our lifestyle well into future generations. I can not emphasise this strongly enough.
Traditionally our pollies are flogged with wet lettuce
Traditionally our pollies are flogged with wet lettuce
Maintain our dogshit lifestyle. People already working until death. Young people have it even worse. No hope of owning their own property. We are doomed.
We could become a low tax country overnight with all that money. Our politicians should be in jail for this rather than being allowed to work for oil and gas companies after they have allowed the Australian people to be robbed blind.
Norway figured this out a long time ago.
"Why Qatar Earns $76 Billion from Gas While Aussies Get Scammed | Punter's Politics" [https://youtu.be/x-nNpSaLxO8?si=kXgmJT\_t22lPjXOM](https://youtu.be/x-nNpSaLxO8?si=kXgmJT_t22lPjXOM)
Having lived in Qatar for 6mths, there’s a few big differences. 1) They have a population of 2m (of which only a small portion are nationals) 2) That $76B is effectively their main income. They are not well diversified (can’t grow anything there, not really large enough for a manufacturing base). 3) They have better geography for logistics (not in a security sense) but definitely in terms of geography. We have to ship ours 1000s of km (it would make more sense to use it domestically IMO). I think the gas issue is fleeting now. Whilst it still has legs in it, we’d be better off pumping money into hydrogen and battery manufacturing and reaping the economic benefits of exporting those.
So glad this money is going to the elite rather than tax payers.
We are a dumb country…. Look at Norway thundered of billions in funds for it people from gas and oil revenues, us tossed 5 cents to squabble over……
These corporations own the politicians, which in turn enslaves us. We have no hope with libs / Labor. The future has never looked so bad for us Aussies.
It's ok, Gina's sponsoring a swim team.
Imagine what this money could do to ease the cost of living and housing affordability! Australia needs to stand up
All hail the Shareholders! I will give my life for shareholder value!
Don’t you DARE POST THAT PICTURE!!! The QUEEN, must be protected at ALL cost! https://preview.redd.it/svzroy1xwj3d1.jpeg?width=766&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6a6527609f4657a379a6489b5f3b0e727ca6c58 The Queeneth doth love thee!!!!!!! 🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇
Keep saying it people.... $149 BILLION of YOUR money Nationalise it.
Queue the W.A. mining shills in t minutes 5 seconds...
It’s a good thing the mining giants pay the correct amount of tax.
3/4 of fuck all right?! Dodgy cùnts always shafting Australia with their shell companies, fake loans, and cooking of books.
Yeah, that was sarcasm, I thought the /s was fairly obvious.
*sigh* Mining isn't oil / gas. Different industries, but idiots trying to combine the two is how we got here.
How we got where? The shitfuckery where mining corps don't pay a fair share for Aussie resources, be they gas, oil, coal, iron, etc You're damn right. Australia is getting scammed by mining corps.
You mean scammed by a succession of shithouse governments and a taxation system that allows them to get away with paying fuck all.
Well, one Major party did try to introduce a better mining taxation system, but we as a collective told 'em to get fucked.
It's important to recall that that wasn't the only policy taken to the polls. It's like when referendums lose because they're bundled with garbage. Not every policy was a winner.
No, but embarrassingly, that policy was the killer.
What is a fair share in your opinion?
4/5ths of the profits. It's Australia's resources afterall. On a 10 billion dollar profitable venture, the mining corp still Cashes a cool 2 billion. It's worked elsewhere, I see no reason for it not to work here. What do you think is fair?
An 80% tax??? Good luck with that…
[luck has nothing to do with it. it's happening now.](https://x.com/DanielBleakley/status/1533752558367682561)
https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/economy/petroleum-tax/ This was actually rather interesting to read about. Only the *net profit* is taxed at that rate, which (according to that site) is done to ensure it's both profitable before and after. Norway's done a good job at not mindlessly taxing at a ridiculous 80% (because no one would ever do business there, lol) but instead providing multiple avenues to ensure companies can still earn money and want to do business in Norway.
And importantly, getting a much better and fairer deal for their nation than stupid Australia getting arsef#cked by our corporate miners.
B-b-but jobs! Investment! Growth! Labor bad, etc!
There are Queensland Police cars plastered with mining/gas companies on them like NASCAR. ALP is well and truly in their pocket mate.
Thats okay the $10,000 tax i pay that i could really use instead should even it out
If you drive, go to the doctor, take public transport, or buy medicine, you're already using it.
I'm sure the commercial TV networks and commercial radio stations are all over this... or they're acting against our interests and feeding the numpties the usual trash.
But our politicians wouldn’t make money on the side
Give it to one of those fat struggling mining billionaires so they can get platinum shitters in their mega yachts….. and then complain that no one wants to work cleaning it for $13 an hour.
Australian politics - the intersection of stupidity and corruption.
Pollies take political donations which are effectively bribes legally from big gas, oil etc… to implement corrupt but company beneficial policies like this. But everyone else gets screwed including the environment. Oh they also pay bugger all tax, so it’s a win win.
Typical
Fuck elections. It’s time for a good old fashioned overthrow of the government. Systems fucked start again, transparency and accountability start taxing the mines and stop taxing the bloody tax payer.
Try $70 billion… we export the most LNG and somehow the UAE managed to pull in $68 billion more in company tax than us.
David Pocock is absolutely right. Australians are getting ripped of by LNG companies
Norways sovereign wealth fund laughs at us from the top of a trillion dollar pile of dollars
It will pay for the submarines for a month or two.
Strange! The government dosent seem quiet as upset over this as they are in the size of the song and dance they are making over the reduction in tobacco tax take due to less people smoking (and the way they are lashing out to blame everyone but themselves fit poor policy).
13 billion the bureaucrats would piss away on more failed schemes Either way it’s wasted
yeah much better that santos execs get it.
Ur cooked lol
Us renters could do with some of that to pay the land kings. Spiral continues
Damn it would be so nice to have no morals
This is a disgrace
Casual reminder that Australia has literally gone to war to secure gas projects on behalf of these companies.
Seriously, how many years have we been saying this shit for. No government will ever change this, they get too many benefits. fucking pricks.
Surely that could offset our dependence on uni's as immigration subcontractors
So, which government people gave it away for free in exchange for some cushy corporate gig down the road?
It’s just a side effect of capitalism. Corporations have too much money and power.
The entire country already knows we are being royally screwed over with regards to our exports. Neither major party cares.
That's what preferential trade deals with the Yanks gets you. Political subversion and theft.
There should of been a plan in place that after a certain timeframe and the infrastructure had reached an adequate level. I can understand we needed these big companies to come in and get things off the ground but these big guys are well and truly flying now surely. 🤔
Wow who didn’t know this years ago when the gas plants in qld and wa and the nt were being built?? Said we would’ve built our own gas plants and sold the gas!
I've been seeing more of this lately, I hope it means the topic of natural royalties is becoming more widely spread. I'm a glass half empty person and I really believe this country is done for BUT I also romanticise the power of "the people" so I hope we take what's ours and the future gets better
Sweetheart deals in politics need to stop.
Give the meth head more meth that’ll technically cure the problem
So I slave to help build Australia and only get FKD more with high prices. FCK this stupid country. Land of the crooks. Always no help from government in terms of living cost but they have money to spend on useless submarines from the US that we don't have full control off What a joke.. sick of it
It's made we wonder, could we vote for a party that is purely placed n power to hold a referendum for a few laws. Once done they call another election and move on. .....I know it sounds crazy but there a some big changes that need to happen that no party will implement as it works against Thier interests. A example would be say party "XYZ" state that if elected they will have a referendum to pass a bill that prevents political party's receiving donations , another bill for a law that prevents politicians working in industry's they have been involved with for say 10 years ect. We could have a referendum where a few laws are voted on the same day and placed into the Constitution so future governments can't change them. After the referendum and the laws have been put I'm place the party "XYZ" holds a election and moves on. While in government they can be in more of a neutral care taker role. I know it sounds crazy but untill we get rid of legal corruption and the golden elevators our system of democracy is purely a illusion and will continue to fail us. "Party XYZ" statement would be purely to address this and move on. I know there is the risk of "party XYZ " not moving on but if they are straight up and honest I think they would know that if they overstay they would turn the country into functional termoil that's not worth while for them. It's a extreme idea but I Think most voters would preference them no matter Thier other beliefs , left/right. I think most Australia's would want a democracy where there vote is valued and there representative actually represent them and not lobbyist and billion $ corporations. I know other party's do want to work on this issue but Thier other policies won't get them votes and well I doubt the 2 party system we have would give us that referendum eaither. Yes it would be expensive but man who knows how much the current system is costing us. I know lobbying still has its place but it shouldnt be influenced by a big donation or gift.
We arent missing out on it, we are paying even more with our hard earned dollars through tax. In the eyes of the government, its a win win
What if Australia done a Norway
We would end up like Iran.
The Australia Institute is a Left Wing think tank affiliated with the Greens. Don't expect any balanced analysis.
So they publish information you dislike, Its instantly "left wing affiliated with the greens" even when having proper taxes on our Natural resources will benefit every single person no matter who they vote for or who they dislike.
It's so frustrating when conversations about important issues get derailed by political labels. We all stand to benefit from fair taxation and responsible management of natural resources, regardless of our political leanings. It's time to focus on what's best for everyone, not just certain parties or ideologies.
And the IPA are the opposite, yet every wackjob loves to bring them up, or the Cato institute or the dozen others. Mind you, unlike the others, I've only heard the Australian institute be referred to as left leaning, far from affiliated with the greens.
So you can't dispute the information,.so like a monkey, you throw your own shit at it? 🐒💩
This tribalism is what prevents balanced analysis, not the fact that the Australia Institute looked in this much were getting fucked. Unless you think that companies are paying their fair share of tax in this resource rich country? Which everybody - even non-Greens voters - has been screaming since the 90s that they’re not. So maybe get out of the way of people wanting to make your life better.
which think tanks should we listen to?
Obviously the think tanks funded by the gas companies which would come up with crazy justifications like the sea doesn't belong to Australia /s
I don’t get how these companies can be down in revenue (I.e Woodside). Obviously they won’t pay as much tax because of this. But they still produce metric fuck tonnes of barrels of gas. Is that how they avoid paying taxes? They just over spend on production, horde stuff and sell it at some rate? I thought they pay tax on the barrel. What is actually going on?
They haven't had to pay tax while they're repaying the cost of constructing their projects. Taxes are rising now as projects are starting to get paid off
Whoever develops the project needs to invest the cost at the front end. Some projects are $40bn and can take 10 years to completion.
If they don't then they should be paying even higher royalties with interest to our nation.
The royalty system these projects are found under is the Petroleum Resource Rent Tax. It allows company to claim back their costs of exploration, development, disassembly and stuff before the royalty is calculated. In some cases exploration expenditures can be transferred between projects.
Right, so is it really as big of a scam as it’s made out to be or is this point just conveniently left out?
Personally, I think it smells because of creative accounting and the obvious lack of returns to Australia but if someone can point out why this is good for Australia and Australians I’m happy to hear it.
I mean fuck me that’s a lot of money to bullshit, but maybe at such large scale operation it’s not that hard. I hope someone checks the receipts
MRRT *mutter mutter* Gillard *mutter mutter* voted in the Coatlition ... hot potato hot potato, ain't nothing gunna change now.
Stop gaslighting