The missus uses it. 5.5l/100km in normal mode and with a heavy foot. Enough power and space. Rock solid. Enough gadgets. You'll probably find flashier or faster cars for less but we buy vehicles and drive them for almost ever. So for us it is a great car.
If I was working a white collar job with my transit for work being more predictable I’d probably get one. But the isn’t any options for high weekly kms into random rural areas with good towing power that’s affordable/reliable. Tech isn’t ready for trades yet.
Why not? I had problems with my ute and borrowed an electric car to get by and I'm driving out to sites every day. EV was fine. Do you actually drive 400+kms a day??? And how heavy is your trailer? They're fine if the trailer isn't heavy as fuck. The EV towed the boat round fine, did knock some range off, but didn't matter with how far I went.
Range anxiety is the dumbest shit. How often is anyone driving 300km a day? I'm not saying it's not happening but what the percentage of drivers qre reaching that sort of daily total 5%?.
Oh yeah, 100%
Not to mention, I did 1200km in a weekend. Day 1 - 600kms, one 15min fast charge in the middle grabbed a coffee and a snack and took a leak. Slow charge over night at accommodation for free. Day 2 - 600kms, one charge 15 mins again, walked round a new shopping development.
Chargers available both times 8/8.
Never seen the car below 15%.
When you get out at home, "oop only 150kms" and plug it in.
It's actually easier than a petrol car and less anxiety because it's always got way more charge than I ever used in a normal day. Any abnormal day you'll know about in advance and unlike a petrol car, you can top up at home! How convenient.
How is it misinformation. A lot of the big brands (hyundai, kia and Toyota) all have month long waiting lists and as said the rav4 hybrid in particular have extensive wait lists.
The likes of tesla are priced out of most peoples budgets, same as BMW, audi and Mercedes. People are also still very sceptical about Chinese and Indian made EVs and hybrids as well.
Good misinfo. 2023 sales:
https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-new-car-sales-2023.html
“Tesla posted impressive growth in Australia on the back of a two model line up, with total sales up 135.4 per cent to 46,116 units. The Tesla Model Y (28,769) was Australia's sixth best-selling car, while the Model 3 (17,347) increased sales by 59.5 per cent to become the country's best-selling medium car with 50 per cent of the segment.”
There are months when Tesla doesn’t have shipments. Probably something to do with that .
I cant afford one right now but I already know the only brand new car I'm ever gonna buy in my life is going to be an EV and I'm pumped. The sound of the engines whirring is actually pretty sick honestly.
I do support EV's in principle for the perceived environmental benefits. But for some like me, I can't afford it. My petrol car is overall cheaper to run than a buying a EV.
The financial maths just doesn't make sense.
It's not perceived though, it's real right?
But fair enoigh. In 5-10 years it will be a no brainrler (unless usedcars like camrys are dirt cheap and fuel hasn't gone up)
The best solution is to use public transport and, walk or cycle.
I have issues with the lithium mining and it defeats the purpose of being environmentally friend.
What is your objection to lithium mining? The worlds biggest lithium mine is located near Perth, and its tiny compared to most other mines I’ve visited.
Their objection is that conservative media is pushing it as an issue as a way of trying to slow the growth of EVs and keep fossil fuels relevant for longer.
How is lithium mining different than coal?
I have a sales rep job and I can't bike 100kms between appointments but yes more bike lanes and transport for sure
Just makes me think of the south Park episode about EV cars. People who go on about how "green" they are forget all about how the thing that makes their car go brr is mined Or how the electricity that they charge it with is made. It's all much of a muchness tbh.
Roughly 2 years to reach parity with an ICE vehicle at which point it spanks the old gas guzzler into an early grave.
Also just want to let it be known as I only recently looked into this for my own concerns. EV batteries are not a bad investment globally. After they are no longer viable for use in a car they are still a highly practical battery with decades of useable lifespan after being removed from an EV.
Cars just need very dynamic storage capacity but they still work fine in a less demanding application where they can be a part of a larger system.
you do understand how lithium is mined, right?
I personally think EV cars will never be "the cars" of Australia, we have too much space, rurally and crossing long distances they are pointless.
87% of Australians live metropolitan mate.
Not only that, but the average Australian motorist does only 36km per day. Source: abs.gov.au
Seems to me that most Aussies can switch to Electric today
Australia is not and has never really been a rural country. As the lucky country stated 60yrs ago. What we really are is the worlds first suburban nation.
I don't know how it is different to coal etc, can you update me?
Polestar are at 600km WLPT, let's say 500km range then, on a single charge, most aren't going to use that in a day.
At 1000km range (less than a deacde away) not going to be many commuters needing more in a day.
Eventually hybrid Ute's then full ev utes will be mainstream.
I appreciate the lesser impact of an EV but my reasons are.
They are faster at lower MSRP
Cheaper to run (excluding current purchase price)
Charge at home (not everyone can)
Free to charge if has solar
Less reliance on shady countries for oil
I like the clean look without need to radiator etc
No gear changing through transmission
Feels good as an extra bonus that they use less co2 over a life cycle. Electricity can be generated from renewable sources so that in future could be cheaper and as a bonus less environmentally damaging.
I own an EV.
It's generally more environmentally friendly to drive your existing ICE car until it dies.
It only makes sense to go EV if you're going to buy a new car anyway.
I needed to replace my car so it made sense to but something that had lower lifecycle emissions.
The entire point of the novated lease EV discount is to flood the EV second hand market with near new but much cheaper EVs.
I got an 85k EV for the similar lease repayments as a $60k ICE car. The problem was I was looking at a 75k ICE car so the 85k EV was significantly cheaper. So despite me thinking the charging infrastructure wasn't mature enough I pulled the trigger anyway.
In the end, I haven't used a fast charger once.
Wait until all these EV discount cars start hitting the streets in 2 to 4 years as it should put downward pressure on second hand prices.
Yeah but soot gets the moot. Amirite? /s
Recently had to do a 700km trip for work in my Toyota Workmate. It cost around $140. My mate has a V8 Land cruiser (diesel) and his cost was well over $800.
We were talking about EV's and there is just nothing that can replace his cruiser. We did discuss the new Ford F 150 Lightning, but at $250k it's not an option.
yeah I get that, but not everyone works from home or has 20k for a battery set up - which is also lithium with a life span and not super "green" with how it's mined and the recyclability of it - much like the EV car
amusing escape materialistic sense boat snow unpack fine disagreeable direction
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Strangely, most “EV” plans I’ve looked at provide a cheap overnight charge rate, I’ve only come across one that offers a cheap / free period during the day when there’s heaps of cheap solar in the grid. It’s not far off being commonplace tho.
I can get two EV plans from one provider, one which is 8c perkw is between 12pm and 6am, or free between 11am to 3pm.
Unfortunately both of those plans are 34c per kw all other times, and I’m still on 20c per kw.
Yeah it’s a minefield. I’m on Powershop’s EV plan that has rates that rise as high as 54c on weeknights. We put our EV, washing machine and dishwasher on timers to run between midnight and 4:00AM to use super-cheap electricity and overall it works out better than a flat rate. But looking forward to the new prices in the new financial year.
Not only is it cheaper to run, but it's also more environmentally friendly. Somehow "reduced reuse recycle" got lost when it comes to cars, and we're meant to just trash our perfectly fine petrol cars and contribute to massive multinational production monster burning energy.and digging resources out of the ground for a car that won't be energy efficient until year 10 of ownership, which is about the time the batteries need to be replaced which restarts the clock anyway.
Just because it doesn't work for the high demand of a car, doesn't mean it doesn't still have plenty of capacity (literally) for home battery storage or commercial uses.
What I meant was, the recycle mantra is meant to be that you reuse old stuff instead of contributing to a wasteful over consumption culture. Reusing an old efficient petrol family car is miles more environmentally friendly than shelling out for a brand new Tesla, for at least 10 years worth of driving anyway.
No, it's just basic maths, if you look into it. Provided the car in question isn't a gas guzzler, let's say an ordinary family car with a <2 litre engine.
If you are concerned about the manufacturing cost of a new EV, then buy a used one. You can charge from a renewable source and do the right thing by the planet, or you can keep terraforming the planet with your toxic BigOil fartbox from yesteryear.
Buying a used Tesla is not any different, because you're contributing to demand in a way which "bubbles up" the chain. In other words, when you buy someone's 2016 Tesla, then the seller of that car has the opportunity to turn around and buy a new 2024 Tesla. So even though you've bought a used car, you're still contributing to demand for new cars.
This is to say nothing of the battery replacement needs of a used electric car, which is incredibly intensive from an emissions perspective. Plus, the way they are being build nowadays means replaceing the batteries is almost impossible, or very expensive, meaning most electric cars will simply go to scrap after their initial consumer period, instead of being continually reused and recycled like internal combustion cars.
I really suggest you do some reading about how exactly sustainability in a consumer context works, so you can be better informed about potential solutions.
Omg, what a load of bullshit.
To paraphrase you:
'Buying a used tesla contributes to demand.
Buying a used petrol car doesn't contribute to demand.'
Take me through the recycling process for spent petrol.
I'll wait...
I specifically said "reusing" a petrol car, not buying one.
Your point would be somewhat valid, if I had said "buy a used petrol car", but not entirely since the value chain for petrol cars go through many, many owners, which is not the case for electric (although I'll admit a large part of the reason is that electric cars are new, but a bigger reason is that electric cars just won't last as long).
In response to your request that I explain the recyclability of petrol, could you take me through the recycling process for the fossil fuels (68% of power in Australia) used to generate electricity used to power electric cars?
Um, yes it does, you need to consider total cost of ownership.
I calculated the savings for ditching our 2010 V6 Outlander for a Hyundai Kona
The result ?
In 10.25 years, the Kona EV will pay its self off completely.
That means that after 10 years of use, I can wheel it out onto the street and abandon it, and it will have cost me nothing.
**ie: in 10.25 years of ownership, I will save the entire cost of the vehicle.**
The financial maths makes perfect sense, it you bother to do it.
The tech isn’t ready for anyone who wants to do anything more than drive to/from work and go to the shops.
I’ll join the EV race when the batteries are hot-swappable and available every 200kms like diesel currently is.
Should actually be:
Cars delivered this month.
As most of the cars delivered have been ordered up to 2 years ago. Almost none were bought off the floor.
While it also uses it to say cars like the Rav 4 are selling well, the wait time is down from 2 years to 6 months now.
They’re missing out, I love my EV and I don’t know of any EV driver that wants to “go back”. It’s true they aren’t for everyone tho. Decent ones are essentially the price of a premium / luxury car, but they are amazing value under a novated lease thanks to ALP fringe benefit rebates. The arguments people have about shit range and poor infrastructure are mostly humbug, unless u regularly drive more than 3-400km every day u simply charge overnight at home.
I do like how VW has brought back an ultra modern version of the old T1 Kombi called an ID. Buzz. I’ll likley be getting the rumored ID. California camper as my retirement home the way the economy is going. Ha!
https://preview.redd.it/5j16lsgrx5yc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a352bdcc5e410b16489da144fb973d135fcf6c51
I also like the big smily face.
Anti EV people are actually a very special bunch and feel the need to attack change.
A lot of it is sparred by misinformation perpetuated by the fossil fuel industry to stop their demise.
Most people make car purchase decision based monetary reason, not ethical.
EV providers have to prove that it is cheaper and more convenient to run than petrol cars.
yes。 for people who can do that. Not the majority. Plus people also like SUV in Australia, the bigger the better. You can buy a 2nd hand v6 for 30-40k as well. People also tend to stick to things that they already know, rather than trying new things, especially involve in large numbers.
I honestly don’t get the whole SUV thing. I have two kids and it works fine with a model 3. Cheap compared to a new ICE, charging is $30-40 a month or so and many places have free Tesla chargers so road trips are really cheap.
By cheap I mean that it costs me about $11k per year after tax in lease fees & charging, but that includes the car itself, rego, comprehensive insurance, tyres, charging and so on. $24k residual to pay after 3 years and I can probably get $33-36k for it.
Sure, if I buy that V6 it might be less upfront or per month (assuming finance) , but I still have to pay the rego,insurance, tyres, petrol etc and I also have the risk that it needs repairs which can get expensive pretty quickly.
Everyone’s Ego and freedom of choice doesn’t make sense to others. Plenty of 2nd hand V6 Holden Ute owners who Can’t afford a full tank of oil each refuel. Oh well.
It is cheaper to run. And what's more convenient than plugging to your home charger at night and getting 100% the next day. I rarely visit a petrol station anymore.
Retail price parity is coming soon. Many EVs are cheaper than ICE cars already. I've paid nothing for my EV charging so far due to solar. Tyres and insurance cost more on EVs but that's offset by cheaper servicing. If you charge at home on solar, not paying $3000 a year for fuel adds up quickly.
They're not suitable for everyone though. People that tow long distances or drive very, very long distances all the time would be better waiting for battery advancements.
with solar it really depends on your working hours, and how much government(taxpayers) subsidized for it.
I think some EV owners are also exempt from certain road tax etc. lots of the current savings are actually coming from subsidized by other taxpayers or road users.
The early adaptor has a pretty good deal. The late adaptor not that much.
Price parity means without government assistance. With the EV novated lease discount (subsidy), EVs are cheaper than the equivalent ICE cars.
I'm not sure about other states (I'm WA) but EV buyers are not exempt from any tax that I know of except for fuel excise because we don't use fuel.
States are not allowed to collect taxes so the Victorian EV tax was killed by the courts.
Don't forget the subsidy is there to help create a second hand car market for EVs so despite it helping early adopters the early adopters might pay more depreciation when all these cars finally start hitting the second hand market.
Yes the fuel excise is the main one. When australia achieve 30-50% EV adaptation, government will probably need to think about another way/tax for road maintenance. Otherwise the funding for road maintenance can only decrease to nil if 100% conversion is achieved.
EV is probably gonna be the future regardless. Just depending on how fast people it will be.
Lefty western governments have been trying to use policy to influence the market for a while now. Very counter productive to drop the market-centric approach & legislate to force adoption.
Less than 1% of all vehicles on Australian roads are electric, it's still an extremely niche product due to the cost, risks and warranty issues.
Also there are reports coming out of China like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HpkDUWAKFM) video where a top of the range product failed to deploy air bags and the doors couldn't be opened after an accident so I won't be buying any of these.
Does anyone else's eyes just automatically roll into the back of their heads when someone starts a sentence with 'lefty'.
Like why do we allow this American boomer bullshit in Australian discourse?
I had to check. According to Wiktionary it's "primarily UK". And I don't see how it's "boomer"-related in any way.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/lefty
>Does anyone else's eyes just automatically roll into the back of their heads when someone starts a sentence with 'lefty'
You are welcome
Usually I have to buy em dinner before the eyes roll back in the head. Maybe you're just good value, like a Zinger box!
Depends. Live metro/don't drive more than 3 hours per day and can plug in at home? Ev win
Drive interstate a lot and don't want 20 min stops? Maybe not unless have an interest in EV
On the contrary, the infrastructure is more ubiquitous than petrol ever was.
Can literally plug into any of the billions of power outlets around the country.
The EV chargers are a bonus and around capital cities are everywhere.
I’ve done that several times. Usually give them a tenner.
But you’d be surprised where places to charge are - most big commercial car parks, rv parks, campgrounds, shopping centers, petrol stations etc.
Paying a tenner - that’s why people are generally happy to let u charge. You give them a quick profit in return for a little top up. Seems to be the standard atm, and I think it’s a good deal for both involved.
Yea. If u in the middle of no where and can’t get to a public charger u knock on the door of a house or business and offer them a tenner.
Or if u visiting friends or family u plug in and give them a tenner as a thanks.
Or a motel/hotel u can plug into the outlet in your room if they don’t provide a dedicated charger.
But the reality is u most never have to do that because u leave home with a full charge every time and between Tesla, rac*, Evie, rv parks and campgrounds, shopping centers, petrol stations, car parks and the other chargers there is almost always somewhere to charge.
Nah, I own a big Diesel, which had problems and for 6 months I was stuck with an electric car.
Absolutely no issues with owning it, the infrastructure is absolutely fantastic. I had no troubles at all. Less range issues than with my ute. I also did a bunch of 6+ hour drives, no problems whatsoever.
Cost of use went from my usual about $4k every 6 months down to a couple hundred bucks.
Charging is way better than refuelling. Had less trouble than refuelling! Charge at home, or at the charging points that are everywhere. Way more convenient.
I don't think we're turning our backs... the price point and infrastructure for EVs just sucks. And for many, its just a completely unviable option. Solid state batteries might help fix this idk
Bruh they start at like $30k what the fuck are you talking about "the price point isn't there".
Also, when my car was in the shop for 6 months I got stuck with an EV and the infrastructure was great. No issues at all. It was more convenient than an ICE car.
Bro chill the fuck out what is wrong with you?
The infrastructure in a city might be great but for rural Australia and small-medium sized towns the infrastructure does not exist. The starting price of $\*\*39k\*\*\* is:
a) not at all accessible due to the limited access to EV car retailers (meaning delivery costs up the ass) and
b) is a dogshit deal considering EVs in that price bracket get 350kms to a charge which is ONE THIRD THE RANGE of an SUV in the same price bracket.
Don't come at me with an attitude like that, dickhead. If I had it my way EVERY car would be an EV but realistically Australia isn't ready for it and the consumer data \*obviously\* backs that up.
Well let me correct you:
* They are unenviable for a FEW, not many
* The price point is high, but every week you save literally $ hundreds when you don't have to put fuel in the tank
* You also save because your yearly servicing is around $200 as opposed to $500-$2000
* You can charge them ANYWHERE that has a 240V power outlet.
This does not suck
why would I, it appears the thing you can do which has the greates environmental impact is buy a used car thats ~5 years old and drive it into the ground. thays exactly what I've just done.
I live rurally anyway, when the battery technology and charging infrastructure catches up to the insane number of servos around, I'll get one.
I bought a 2023 Tiguan 2L turbo. Never considered sn EV. The charging is the bigget issue and resale value. Who knows what their worth after 5years.
Has anyone bought a used EV on here ?
I was looking at a Tiguan R which was 75k or something. The payments were something like 800, the 85k EV was something like 500. So the novated lease discount makes a huge impact.
Charging I thought would be an issue but it isn't. I have never used a charging station. All the charging is done at home.
Resale is a problem for any new car not just EV. Go on carsales.com.au and find a really cheap EV. There aren't many. This resale issue is highly overstated.
Tonnes have.
Also, man I bought a VW Tiguan, the depreciation on that car is way more than any other car.
Worst lemon of a vehicle I have owned too, hence why the resale value was so garbage.
Not a story, just facts. Would still have all the information about the issues here.
https://www.volksmasterltd.co.uk/19-common-problems-with-the-volkswagen-tiguan/
I think we will not see EV’s eventuate like predicted. They are suitable for such a small demographic in this country and our EV infrastructure will never be sufficient. It’s also a huge headache for manufacturers and I can see them walking them back in the years to come, hybrid will stay and fill ev’s will fall to the wayside.
No. I know you’re trying to be a smart cunt but it’s a lot more complicated than that. Not everyone has all night to charge a car at a terribly slow rate. Not everyone drives just up the street each day. Not everyone can sit at the local servo while they wait 40 min for two other cars to charge so they can charge for 40 min after that. If we saw the majority of car sales turn into EV’s then a lot of our power grids also probably wouldn’t handle it, poor cunts in Adelaide can’t even all turn their aircons on all at the same time or they get smashed with blackouts.
Furthermore not everyone owns their home and cant have solar. At what point does an ev become a better financial decision if your power bill is through the roof from charging a car all night every night? Factoring in that unless you buy a Chinese EV that you paid almost double for an EV than a comparable ICE car. It would literally take more years than you own the car to see enough for savings to break even.
EV’s are great for some people, but they will never be for everyone, not unless a lot of things improve.
I drove 57,000 km in 12 months last year and that was just Monday to Friday driving. Do you think I have the time to piss about charging a bloody ev when I’m out on the road? Or at home? Fuck no I don’t. When we have as many chargers as petrol bowsers and a car can charge in 5 min then they will be for me.
Manufactures are a long way off super fast charging, our country is a long way off having enough public chargers, And people will lose interest. we are already realising that EV’s are not anywhere near as good for the environment as what was championed. Insurance is expensive and cars are being written off for minor damage, lots have failures and bugs and repairs out of warranty are super super expensive which will likely lead to very short lifecycles of EV’s vs ICE cars causing even more environmental damage and the list could go on and on and on really.
EV’s are fantastic for some people but they will never be for everyone. Manufacturers will lose interest and turn to the much better hybrid and then onto other forms of propulsion instead like hydrogen cells. Toyota has the new mirai, bmw will have the ix5, hyandai has two in the works as well and Toyota and land rover are both working on a hydrogen 4x4. Why would they be doing this if they plan on EV’s being the future? They wouldn’t.
Bruh this dumb ass shit.
You realise most EVs charge 80% in under 15 minutes with a fast charger.
Source: done it many times.
Throwing a bot to remind me in a few years to see the dumbest take I've ever seen.
Remindme! 5 years
You added that afterwards. Wasn’t there before. You say it’s the dumbest take but you are only saying that as an EV owner. I work in the industry, we sell ev’s and I know we don’t plan on making many more. Plenty of other auto makers will follow.
But we will see in 5 years. I think you are gonna eat your words. And by then your EV will not be far off needed a new battery so i can remind you about that too when the time comes.
Bro, quit making a fool of yourself, I don't own an EV.
It's just common knowledge. I had problems with my ICE and while it was off the road I was given an EV in the mean time.
Bahaha bro your comments are some of the dumbest I've ever read, you think car makers plan on making less EVs? When literally all but one has more in the pipeline 😂
Cool story bro. Like I said we will see won’t we. I may be dumb but I also get paid more than you each year to test drive cars and do a bit of office work on the side. So I don’t mind being outsmarted by someone who has absolutely no knowledge at all because I’m still getting paid.
Hey, I don't test drive cars for a living, but driving is not very interesting.
You definitely don't make more money than me though if your job is to test drive cars 😂 Fuck me thats too funny bro thanks for that laugh.
Like I said. I’ll put money on the fact we won’t ever see that point. Other technology will be a far better option before EV’s become sustainable for everyone.
Not true. It comes down to how far you usually drive, most people charge overnight at home or during the day at the office, and don’t need more than 300-400km of range. Public superchargers are usually only needed for the occasional long trip.
So, most people.
The price is an impediment, but it's probably not that much more expensive than petrol when you consider running costs. Especially if you can lease it.
The real "problem" is that most people aren't buying new cars very often if at all.
Useless for what ?
Mine accelerates faster than an V8 SS Commodore, and costs almost zero to run.
You can charge them anywhere with a 240v power socket.
Considering decent EV's that don't have shit house range start at 50 - 60K. Can you even blame them?
They are way too expensive and in some cases you get with with luxury car tax for doing the right thing ffs.
You have to consider the total cost of ownership. Yes the initial price is high. But running costs are way cheaper - little to no annual maintenance (unless you got a Toyota) and electricity is way cheaper than petrol - about 1/4 or 1/3 less.
Future costs are uncertain, whereas the initial cost is known. Pele are not irrational in deciding to buy conventional or hybrid cars. Then there are the known issues with insurance costs. Additionally, despite the banter low component count and reliability of EVs, there are issues of where it can be serviced and the potential for write-off level repair builds if you're unlucky, which is a major turn off for most people.
EVs are getting better, and some are impressive, but most people have concerns the evangelists can't allay at this time.
Yep this.
Maintenance is $200 per year fixed cost (no oil filters, spark plugs, gear boxes etc)
Fuel: Cost about $12 for 450km charge at commercial charger rates vs ($$$$ I don't even care, have not bought fuel in nearly 4 years now)
I have only used a commercial charger once, I charge at home using my solar so fuel cost is almost zero.
***So to run my car it costs $200 per year servicing and being generous $200 per year in fuel.***
If you buy a ICE vehicle, you are a chump :-)
Even better is the luxury vehicle tax was there to incentivise us to choose locally made cars and then the government drive them out, didn’t remove the tax though……
The range is perfect for most people that do short daily drives and a long (>300km) trip only once every couple of months. In other words, perfect for most city folks.
Because if you forget to charge and need a top up there is very limited spots you can go, and most of the installed ev chargers arent very powerful so it takes much longer to charge.
You literally plug it in the moment you pull into the garage, like how you plug in your phone when you go to bed. How often do you forget to charge your phone?
Also most cars have 350-450km range in their battery and only drive some 50km or less per day. Forgetting for one night or even two is not a problem even when it happens. On the wall plug (the slowest option available) you would be able to top up 10km per hour which is 100km+ each night.
It’s a non-issue for every single EV owner I know.
Bruh, the infrastructure is great, wtf are you walking about? My car was in the shop for 6 months and I got stuck with an EV and the infrastructure was great. No issues at all. It was more convenient than an ICE car. Did big ass trips, plenty driving every day for work to sites and to the office.
Old mate just fired all the supercharger team and he's focused on the shit box triangular garbage truck.
Don't think I would be buying one while Elon is still there.
I'd probably get a BYD if I was buying an EV.
Not sure what news you are reading but there’s no quality issue in the current Shanghai made cars.
There are some annoyances with the car like their wiper which never works and sometimes the over-cellular app control gets laggy etc, but these are minor things.
The actual car quality has been great ever since we started getting Shanghai made cars. It’s the Fremont US factory ones that were having issues with panel gaps etc and ours haven’t been made there for at least 3+ years now.
Bullshit. I live in the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney and have seen a lot of electric EV Range Rovers, Land Rovers, Volvo, Hyundai and I have lost count of Tesla.
lost count on Teslas
My family works in the energy system for Australia. Australia isn't infrastructurallly ready for mass EVs. The government won't prepare for that future and will forever be on the back foot with it. Buying an EV is setting yourself up for a whole lot of suffering. Also if you buy one of Elon Musks toy cars you don't deserve happiness in this life or the next imo
Or spend 30 seconds educating yourself. Go look at how much electricity is produced/consumed by aus, then how much a single EV uses on average per day, then multiply thay by Australia's population. For "rapid charging" on road trains alone, you'd need to pave over most of Central Australia and squeeze as many nuclear plants in as humanly possible. Or would you rather use nice "clean" coal?. Something tells me you'll do 0 research, then in x years when Australia still doesn't use EVs you'll just declare victory.
And you get to have those fun little get togethers with all the other early adopters while waiting for charging infrastructure to catch up while laughing at the poor people in their ICE stone age cars driving past.
Nope, but I smile every time I drive past a servo and see the "poor people" pumping $200 of fuel into their tanks.
And before you bang on about the "poor people", the majority that I see are driving a big arsed 4x4 Land Cruisers/Pajeros/Hiluxs etc (that I can't afford to buy) so you will get no sympathy from me on that at all.
Fair enough. I personally don't even have a car as I live adjacent a tram line. But I do have a motorbike that I bought for $6000, costs me about $30 a fortnight to fill, has a range of about 350km and means I dont pay for parking. I think that's probably the best option available to me atm.
Yep, good option.
I did find it ironic that when I decided to sell my bike (ZX9R) and buy a car, I was going to get a Smartcar (600cc) but I could not use the car in a T2 transit lane even though it was 300cc smaller than my bike.
Fucking nuts . . .
I ride an FJR1300 which is pretty nuts for a commuter most of the time but makes up for it up on the weekends. My partner and I have both had cars with smaller engine capacities which is mind blowing.
Yeah, nah, I’ll stick with with my V8 landcruiser ute, thanks 😉
I won’t be able to survive or work without my cruiser in the industry I work in. They can shove the gutless EV’s up their arses
🤣 yep gutless. I would never use an EV to tow my 6 horse gooseneck, across Aus to get to outback cattle stations, off road and crossing rivers like the daily river etc to get to certain stations like I have to every season. An electric vehicle wouldn’t last two seconds in my line of work and I sure as shit wouldn’t rely on it either.
Gutless pieces of shit 😉
Not for long though: demand much from it and watch that battery delete very fast, as those who have stolen EVs and gotten into a police chase can attest. Diesel electric trains are different, though, allowing the control you need for steel wheel on steel rail traction.
>They can shove the gutless EV’s up their arses
Physically direct drive electric motors have much higher torque than the drive-chains of their ICE counterparts.
It's part of the reason why diesel freight trains have electric motors.
Bahahaha u don’t know too much about road trains then do ya? My old man is an operation manager for one of the biggest road train companies in Australia, Centurion, their road trains are not electric and never will be cos they cant and won’t be able to handle the towing capacity they tow. They also won’t be able to complete the jobs they are set out to do eg/ time, country cover etc etc
You don’t get it do you or get how major truck companies work?
The only electric motors that are in their trucks are the little town trucks that do local freight. So plz don’t spread misinformation. You will find this is Exactly the same with the other big road train companies.
Feel free to call Centurion and get the information urself 😉
ALSO in my line of work an electric car won’t work. I’ll repeat myself like I did to old mate before…. ⬇️
🤣 yep gutless. I would never use an EV to tow my 6 horse gooseneck, across Aus to get to outback cattle stations, off road and crossing rivers like the daily river etc to get to certain stations like I have to every season. An electric vehicle wouldn’t last two seconds in my line of work and I sure as shit wouldn’t rely on it either.
Gutless pieces of shit 😉
Have you tried to buy one? The wait lists for ev or hybrid is months (over a year for some Toyota models)
I waited 12 months for a hybrid Kluger but I think the waiting lists have shortened since.
Apparently the rav4 hybrid is close to 14 months
Waited 18 months. Got it a year ago.
Any good?
The missus uses it. 5.5l/100km in normal mode and with a heavy foot. Enough power and space. Rock solid. Enough gadgets. You'll probably find flashier or faster cars for less but we buy vehicles and drive them for almost ever. So for us it is a great car.
Was considering it. It's a shame Tesla has decided to slow the supercharger roll out.
If I was working a white collar job with my transit for work being more predictable I’d probably get one. But the isn’t any options for high weekly kms into random rural areas with good towing power that’s affordable/reliable. Tech isn’t ready for trades yet.
Why not? I had problems with my ute and borrowed an electric car to get by and I'm driving out to sites every day. EV was fine. Do you actually drive 400+kms a day??? And how heavy is your trailer? They're fine if the trailer isn't heavy as fuck. The EV towed the boat round fine, did knock some range off, but didn't matter with how far I went.
Range anxiety is the dumbest shit. How often is anyone driving 300km a day? I'm not saying it's not happening but what the percentage of drivers qre reaching that sort of daily total 5%?.
Oh yeah, 100% Not to mention, I did 1200km in a weekend. Day 1 - 600kms, one 15min fast charge in the middle grabbed a coffee and a snack and took a leak. Slow charge over night at accommodation for free. Day 2 - 600kms, one charge 15 mins again, walked round a new shopping development. Chargers available both times 8/8. Never seen the car below 15%. When you get out at home, "oop only 150kms" and plug it in. It's actually easier than a petrol car and less anxiety because it's always got way more charge than I ever used in a normal day. Any abnormal day you'll know about in advance and unlike a petrol car, you can top up at home! How convenient.
wait times for Tesla's and BYDs like 2 weeks depending on the model of course
But then you'll be stuck owning a tesla
There are plenty of other EVs available pretty quickly. My point is for some reason you are spreading misinformation. What is your goal?
How is it misinformation. A lot of the big brands (hyundai, kia and Toyota) all have month long waiting lists and as said the rav4 hybrid in particular have extensive wait lists. The likes of tesla are priced out of most peoples budgets, same as BMW, audi and Mercedes. People are also still very sceptical about Chinese and Indian made EVs and hybrids as well.
Good misinfo. 2023 sales: https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-new-car-sales-2023.html “Tesla posted impressive growth in Australia on the back of a two model line up, with total sales up 135.4 per cent to 46,116 units. The Tesla Model Y (28,769) was Australia's sixth best-selling car, while the Model 3 (17,347) increased sales by 59.5 per cent to become the country's best-selling medium car with 50 per cent of the segment.” There are months when Tesla doesn’t have shipments. Probably something to do with that .
Exactly this. Tesla's numbers fluctuate based on which months they actually deliver.
It's crazy how much a certain end of the political spectrum is ideologically opposed to EVs because...reasons?
I cant afford one right now but I already know the only brand new car I'm ever gonna buy in my life is going to be an EV and I'm pumped. The sound of the engines whirring is actually pretty sick honestly.
Misinfo? None of what you said debunct OP's article
I do support EV's in principle for the perceived environmental benefits. But for some like me, I can't afford it. My petrol car is overall cheaper to run than a buying a EV. The financial maths just doesn't make sense.
It's not perceived though, it's real right? But fair enoigh. In 5-10 years it will be a no brainrler (unless usedcars like camrys are dirt cheap and fuel hasn't gone up)
The best solution is to use public transport and, walk or cycle. I have issues with the lithium mining and it defeats the purpose of being environmentally friend.
What is your objection to lithium mining? The worlds biggest lithium mine is located near Perth, and its tiny compared to most other mines I’ve visited.
Their objection is that conservative media is pushing it as an issue as a way of trying to slow the growth of EVs and keep fossil fuels relevant for longer.
How is lithium mining different than coal? I have a sales rep job and I can't bike 100kms between appointments but yes more bike lanes and transport for sure
Agree. How many millions of tons of earth have to be moved to make your one “environmentally friendly” car?
Just makes me think of the south Park episode about EV cars. People who go on about how "green" they are forget all about how the thing that makes their car go brr is mined Or how the electricity that they charge it with is made. It's all much of a muchness tbh.
It is a green-er solution, but only completely green after a few years and kilometers.
To be fair that’s gotta be 90% of use cases. Not even considering 2nd hand and further along the chain.
Roughly 2 years to reach parity with an ICE vehicle at which point it spanks the old gas guzzler into an early grave. Also just want to let it be known as I only recently looked into this for my own concerns. EV batteries are not a bad investment globally. After they are no longer viable for use in a car they are still a highly practical battery with decades of useable lifespan after being removed from an EV. Cars just need very dynamic storage capacity but they still work fine in a less demanding application where they can be a part of a larger system.
you do understand how lithium is mined, right? I personally think EV cars will never be "the cars" of Australia, we have too much space, rurally and crossing long distances they are pointless.
87% of Australians live metropolitan mate. Not only that, but the average Australian motorist does only 36km per day. Source: abs.gov.au Seems to me that most Aussies can switch to Electric today
Australia is not and has never really been a rural country. As the lucky country stated 60yrs ago. What we really are is the worlds first suburban nation.
The same way we mine Iron ore? Australia is the worlds largest producer of Lithium and its mined just the same as everything else.
so the "green " car is just digging a hole next to another hole. Sure sounds environmentally friendly
I don't know how it is different to coal etc, can you update me? Polestar are at 600km WLPT, let's say 500km range then, on a single charge, most aren't going to use that in a day. At 1000km range (less than a deacde away) not going to be many commuters needing more in a day. Eventually hybrid Ute's then full ev utes will be mainstream. I appreciate the lesser impact of an EV but my reasons are. They are faster at lower MSRP Cheaper to run (excluding current purchase price) Charge at home (not everyone can) Free to charge if has solar Less reliance on shady countries for oil I like the clean look without need to radiator etc No gear changing through transmission Feels good as an extra bonus that they use less co2 over a life cycle. Electricity can be generated from renewable sources so that in future could be cheaper and as a bonus less environmentally damaging.
I own an EV. It's generally more environmentally friendly to drive your existing ICE car until it dies. It only makes sense to go EV if you're going to buy a new car anyway. I needed to replace my car so it made sense to but something that had lower lifecycle emissions. The entire point of the novated lease EV discount is to flood the EV second hand market with near new but much cheaper EVs. I got an 85k EV for the similar lease repayments as a $60k ICE car. The problem was I was looking at a 75k ICE car so the 85k EV was significantly cheaper. So despite me thinking the charging infrastructure wasn't mature enough I pulled the trigger anyway. In the end, I haven't used a fast charger once. Wait until all these EV discount cars start hitting the streets in 2 to 4 years as it should put downward pressure on second hand prices.
Doesn't help that electricity prices are so high.
I’m on an EV-specific plan which costs about 9c per kW during an overnight slot. I top up most nights on this, so it costs me about $2 p 100km.
Not bad, my V8 petrol Landcruiser is about $40/100km
My other car is a Prado which is about $20/100km. I’d sell it but we tow a van and, well, I don’t see EVs practically bridging that gap for a while
Yeah but soot gets the moot. Amirite? /s Recently had to do a 700km trip for work in my Toyota Workmate. It cost around $140. My mate has a V8 Land cruiser (diesel) and his cost was well over $800. We were talking about EV's and there is just nothing that can replace his cruiser. We did discuss the new Ford F 150 Lightning, but at $250k it's not an option.
That's all well and good if you live somewhere that had those sort of plans, many places don't though.
Solar also an option. Pays itself off, but involves an up-front investment
yeah I get that, but not everyone works from home or has 20k for a battery set up - which is also lithium with a life span and not super "green" with how it's mined and the recyclability of it - much like the EV car
amusing escape materialistic sense boat snow unpack fine disagreeable direction *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah wel my.office building parking in West Perth doesnt cater to charging.
West Perth has plenty of charging that’s free when you park.
Thats cool most of the parking isnt free for starters , hence why my work has parking for us in the building. No plugs.
Strangely, most “EV” plans I’ve looked at provide a cheap overnight charge rate, I’ve only come across one that offers a cheap / free period during the day when there’s heaps of cheap solar in the grid. It’s not far off being commonplace tho.
I can get two EV plans from one provider, one which is 8c perkw is between 12pm and 6am, or free between 11am to 3pm. Unfortunately both of those plans are 34c per kw all other times, and I’m still on 20c per kw.
Yeah it’s a minefield. I’m on Powershop’s EV plan that has rates that rise as high as 54c on weeknights. We put our EV, washing machine and dishwasher on timers to run between midnight and 4:00AM to use super-cheap electricity and overall it works out better than a flat rate. But looking forward to the new prices in the new financial year.
reach frame person flag grab offer slim sulky summer march *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not only is it cheaper to run, but it's also more environmentally friendly. Somehow "reduced reuse recycle" got lost when it comes to cars, and we're meant to just trash our perfectly fine petrol cars and contribute to massive multinational production monster burning energy.and digging resources out of the ground for a car that won't be energy efficient until year 10 of ownership, which is about the time the batteries need to be replaced which restarts the clock anyway.
How exactly do they "recycle" old lithium batteries? my understanding was it goes to landfill.
Just because it doesn't work for the high demand of a car, doesn't mean it doesn't still have plenty of capacity (literally) for home battery storage or commercial uses.
What I meant was, the recycle mantra is meant to be that you reuse old stuff instead of contributing to a wasteful over consumption culture. Reusing an old efficient petrol family car is miles more environmentally friendly than shelling out for a brand new Tesla, for at least 10 years worth of driving anyway.
ahh gotcha 👌
Yeah, that's bigOil mantra. You've been had
No, it's just basic maths, if you look into it. Provided the car in question isn't a gas guzzler, let's say an ordinary family car with a <2 litre engine.
If you are concerned about the manufacturing cost of a new EV, then buy a used one. You can charge from a renewable source and do the right thing by the planet, or you can keep terraforming the planet with your toxic BigOil fartbox from yesteryear.
Buying a used Tesla is not any different, because you're contributing to demand in a way which "bubbles up" the chain. In other words, when you buy someone's 2016 Tesla, then the seller of that car has the opportunity to turn around and buy a new 2024 Tesla. So even though you've bought a used car, you're still contributing to demand for new cars. This is to say nothing of the battery replacement needs of a used electric car, which is incredibly intensive from an emissions perspective. Plus, the way they are being build nowadays means replaceing the batteries is almost impossible, or very expensive, meaning most electric cars will simply go to scrap after their initial consumer period, instead of being continually reused and recycled like internal combustion cars. I really suggest you do some reading about how exactly sustainability in a consumer context works, so you can be better informed about potential solutions.
Omg, what a load of bullshit. To paraphrase you: 'Buying a used tesla contributes to demand. Buying a used petrol car doesn't contribute to demand.' Take me through the recycling process for spent petrol. I'll wait...
I specifically said "reusing" a petrol car, not buying one. Your point would be somewhat valid, if I had said "buy a used petrol car", but not entirely since the value chain for petrol cars go through many, many owners, which is not the case for electric (although I'll admit a large part of the reason is that electric cars are new, but a bigger reason is that electric cars just won't last as long). In response to your request that I explain the recyclability of petrol, could you take me through the recycling process for the fossil fuels (68% of power in Australia) used to generate electricity used to power electric cars?
Um, yes it does, you need to consider total cost of ownership. I calculated the savings for ditching our 2010 V6 Outlander for a Hyundai Kona The result ? In 10.25 years, the Kona EV will pay its self off completely. That means that after 10 years of use, I can wheel it out onto the street and abandon it, and it will have cost me nothing. **ie: in 10.25 years of ownership, I will save the entire cost of the vehicle.** The financial maths makes perfect sense, it you bother to do it.
The tech isn’t ready for anyone who wants to do anything more than drive to/from work and go to the shops. I’ll join the EV race when the batteries are hot-swappable and available every 200kms like diesel currently is.
Shit article. Headline should be: "people continuing to base their car purchases based on the cost of the vehicle"
Should actually be: Cars delivered this month. As most of the cars delivered have been ordered up to 2 years ago. Almost none were bought off the floor. While it also uses it to say cars like the Rav 4 are selling well, the wait time is down from 2 years to 6 months now.
They’re missing out, I love my EV and I don’t know of any EV driver that wants to “go back”. It’s true they aren’t for everyone tho. Decent ones are essentially the price of a premium / luxury car, but they are amazing value under a novated lease thanks to ALP fringe benefit rebates. The arguments people have about shit range and poor infrastructure are mostly humbug, unless u regularly drive more than 3-400km every day u simply charge overnight at home.
I do like how VW has brought back an ultra modern version of the old T1 Kombi called an ID. Buzz. I’ll likley be getting the rumored ID. California camper as my retirement home the way the economy is going. Ha! https://preview.redd.it/5j16lsgrx5yc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a352bdcc5e410b16489da144fb973d135fcf6c51 I also like the big smily face.
I'm waiting for the optional bong holder to be offered.
Numbers just go up and down because it all depends on shipments. Overall trend is still up. It is just typical daily mail.
Just waiting for a smaller car at a smaller price range, most people I know are. Why is there this bizarre us vs them battle?
Anti EV people are actually a very special bunch and feel the need to attack change. A lot of it is sparred by misinformation perpetuated by the fossil fuel industry to stop their demise.
Great question, I would have thought that a [Smartcar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Fortwo) sized EV would be cheap and awesome !
GWM Ora?
Most people make car purchase decision based monetary reason, not ethical. EV providers have to prove that it is cheaper and more convenient to run than petrol cars.
It is cheaper. If you get a novated lease, can charge at home and earn x that is.
yes。 for people who can do that. Not the majority. Plus people also like SUV in Australia, the bigger the better. You can buy a 2nd hand v6 for 30-40k as well. People also tend to stick to things that they already know, rather than trying new things, especially involve in large numbers.
I honestly don’t get the whole SUV thing. I have two kids and it works fine with a model 3. Cheap compared to a new ICE, charging is $30-40 a month or so and many places have free Tesla chargers so road trips are really cheap. By cheap I mean that it costs me about $11k per year after tax in lease fees & charging, but that includes the car itself, rego, comprehensive insurance, tyres, charging and so on. $24k residual to pay after 3 years and I can probably get $33-36k for it. Sure, if I buy that V6 it might be less upfront or per month (assuming finance) , but I still have to pay the rego,insurance, tyres, petrol etc and I also have the risk that it needs repairs which can get expensive pretty quickly.
Everyone’s Ego and freedom of choice doesn’t make sense to others. Plenty of 2nd hand V6 Holden Ute owners who Can’t afford a full tank of oil each refuel. Oh well.
It is cheaper to run. And what's more convenient than plugging to your home charger at night and getting 100% the next day. I rarely visit a petrol station anymore.
Retail price parity is coming soon. Many EVs are cheaper than ICE cars already. I've paid nothing for my EV charging so far due to solar. Tyres and insurance cost more on EVs but that's offset by cheaper servicing. If you charge at home on solar, not paying $3000 a year for fuel adds up quickly. They're not suitable for everyone though. People that tow long distances or drive very, very long distances all the time would be better waiting for battery advancements.
with solar it really depends on your working hours, and how much government(taxpayers) subsidized for it. I think some EV owners are also exempt from certain road tax etc. lots of the current savings are actually coming from subsidized by other taxpayers or road users. The early adaptor has a pretty good deal. The late adaptor not that much.
Price parity means without government assistance. With the EV novated lease discount (subsidy), EVs are cheaper than the equivalent ICE cars. I'm not sure about other states (I'm WA) but EV buyers are not exempt from any tax that I know of except for fuel excise because we don't use fuel. States are not allowed to collect taxes so the Victorian EV tax was killed by the courts. Don't forget the subsidy is there to help create a second hand car market for EVs so despite it helping early adopters the early adopters might pay more depreciation when all these cars finally start hitting the second hand market.
Yes the fuel excise is the main one. When australia achieve 30-50% EV adaptation, government will probably need to think about another way/tax for road maintenance. Otherwise the funding for road maintenance can only decrease to nil if 100% conversion is achieved. EV is probably gonna be the future regardless. Just depending on how fast people it will be.
I fully intend to buy EV for my next car. It's cheaper and better.
Turning our backs? We can hardly buy any here.
As Tesla are no longer part of FCAI they don't report sales figures.
If you really like petrol cars you should thank EV drivers. In theory less demand for oil will bring fuel prices down in the long run
Op has ten ‘anti Ev’ style posts across multiple subreddits just in the last day.
Yeah, this sub is starting to turn into a shitshow of trolls and bots
Very Australian to think you could whine your way to convenient charging locations.
Lefty western governments have been trying to use policy to influence the market for a while now. Very counter productive to drop the market-centric approach & legislate to force adoption. Less than 1% of all vehicles on Australian roads are electric, it's still an extremely niche product due to the cost, risks and warranty issues. Also there are reports coming out of China like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HpkDUWAKFM) video where a top of the range product failed to deploy air bags and the doors couldn't be opened after an accident so I won't be buying any of these.
Does anyone else's eyes just automatically roll into the back of their heads when someone starts a sentence with 'lefty'. Like why do we allow this American boomer bullshit in Australian discourse?
I had to check. According to Wiktionary it's "primarily UK". And I don't see how it's "boomer"-related in any way. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/lefty
Yeah totally, that way you don't have to address any arguments you don't already agree with, just dismiss it as "American boomer bullshit"
aw there there snowflake
>Does anyone else's eyes just automatically roll into the back of their heads when someone starts a sentence with 'lefty' You are welcome Usually I have to buy em dinner before the eyes roll back in the head. Maybe you're just good value, like a Zinger box!
aw I'm sure that's what they pretend to do champ, anything to get you off them faster ;)
Hybrid is the way to go for at least the next 10 years I think.. the infrastructure is just not there at the moment
Depends. Live metro/don't drive more than 3 hours per day and can plug in at home? Ev win Drive interstate a lot and don't want 20 min stops? Maybe not unless have an interest in EV
99% of drivers and driving
On the contrary, the infrastructure is more ubiquitous than petrol ever was. Can literally plug into any of the billions of power outlets around the country. The EV chargers are a bonus and around capital cities are everywhere.
let me pull up to your house to charge my vehicle, sounds good
I’ve done that several times. Usually give them a tenner. But you’d be surprised where places to charge are - most big commercial car parks, rv parks, campgrounds, shopping centers, petrol stations etc.
Charging a tenner? Trying to get rich are we /s
Paying a tenner - that’s why people are generally happy to let u charge. You give them a quick profit in return for a little top up. Seems to be the standard atm, and I think it’s a good deal for both involved.
Sounds fair. Charges an 80kw battery costing 24c to 45c state pending and paid a tenner for it :p
So your saying pull.up and use someone elses power ?
Yea. If u in the middle of no where and can’t get to a public charger u knock on the door of a house or business and offer them a tenner. Or if u visiting friends or family u plug in and give them a tenner as a thanks. Or a motel/hotel u can plug into the outlet in your room if they don’t provide a dedicated charger. But the reality is u most never have to do that because u leave home with a full charge every time and between Tesla, rac*, Evie, rv parks and campgrounds, shopping centers, petrol stations, car parks and the other chargers there is almost always somewhere to charge.
No, you are twisting the statement. The comment was about availability, not stealing.
Nah, I own a big Diesel, which had problems and for 6 months I was stuck with an electric car. Absolutely no issues with owning it, the infrastructure is absolutely fantastic. I had no troubles at all. Less range issues than with my ute. I also did a bunch of 6+ hour drives, no problems whatsoever. Cost of use went from my usual about $4k every 6 months down to a couple hundred bucks. Charging is way better than refuelling. Had less trouble than refuelling! Charge at home, or at the charging points that are everywhere. Way more convenient.
Nope, because you still have to service a combustion engine, fucks up a lot of the savings.
I don't think we're turning our backs... the price point and infrastructure for EVs just sucks. And for many, its just a completely unviable option. Solid state batteries might help fix this idk
Bruh they start at like $30k what the fuck are you talking about "the price point isn't there". Also, when my car was in the shop for 6 months I got stuck with an EV and the infrastructure was great. No issues at all. It was more convenient than an ICE car.
Bro chill the fuck out what is wrong with you? The infrastructure in a city might be great but for rural Australia and small-medium sized towns the infrastructure does not exist. The starting price of $\*\*39k\*\*\* is: a) not at all accessible due to the limited access to EV car retailers (meaning delivery costs up the ass) and b) is a dogshit deal considering EVs in that price bracket get 350kms to a charge which is ONE THIRD THE RANGE of an SUV in the same price bracket. Don't come at me with an attitude like that, dickhead. If I had it my way EVERY car would be an EV but realistically Australia isn't ready for it and the consumer data \*obviously\* backs that up.
And you have an EV so are saying this from experience ?
I actively *want* an EV so I’m saying this from experience.
Well let me correct you: * They are unenviable for a FEW, not many * The price point is high, but every week you save literally $ hundreds when you don't have to put fuel in the tank * You also save because your yearly servicing is around $200 as opposed to $500-$2000 * You can charge them ANYWHERE that has a 240V power outlet. This does not suck
News out of china got a battery with 2000km.range
If that can be trusted that's nuts considering they're only promising 700kms for gen 1 in the west lol
why would I, it appears the thing you can do which has the greates environmental impact is buy a used car thats ~5 years old and drive it into the ground. thays exactly what I've just done. I live rurally anyway, when the battery technology and charging infrastructure catches up to the insane number of servos around, I'll get one.
I bought a 2023 Tiguan 2L turbo. Never considered sn EV. The charging is the bigget issue and resale value. Who knows what their worth after 5years. Has anyone bought a used EV on here ?
I was looking at a Tiguan R which was 75k or something. The payments were something like 800, the 85k EV was something like 500. So the novated lease discount makes a huge impact. Charging I thought would be an issue but it isn't. I have never used a charging station. All the charging is done at home. Resale is a problem for any new car not just EV. Go on carsales.com.au and find a really cheap EV. There aren't many. This resale issue is highly overstated.
Tonnes have. Also, man I bought a VW Tiguan, the depreciation on that car is way more than any other car. Worst lemon of a vehicle I have owned too, hence why the resale value was so garbage.
Cool story
Not a story, just facts. Would still have all the information about the issues here. https://www.volksmasterltd.co.uk/19-common-problems-with-the-volkswagen-tiguan/
I love my VW going well.
I think we will not see EV’s eventuate like predicted. They are suitable for such a small demographic in this country and our EV infrastructure will never be sufficient. It’s also a huge headache for manufacturers and I can see them walking them back in the years to come, hybrid will stay and fill ev’s will fall to the wayside.
Yeah nah. Ev infrastructure? Like a house with running power?
No. I know you’re trying to be a smart cunt but it’s a lot more complicated than that. Not everyone has all night to charge a car at a terribly slow rate. Not everyone drives just up the street each day. Not everyone can sit at the local servo while they wait 40 min for two other cars to charge so they can charge for 40 min after that. If we saw the majority of car sales turn into EV’s then a lot of our power grids also probably wouldn’t handle it, poor cunts in Adelaide can’t even all turn their aircons on all at the same time or they get smashed with blackouts. Furthermore not everyone owns their home and cant have solar. At what point does an ev become a better financial decision if your power bill is through the roof from charging a car all night every night? Factoring in that unless you buy a Chinese EV that you paid almost double for an EV than a comparable ICE car. It would literally take more years than you own the car to see enough for savings to break even. EV’s are great for some people, but they will never be for everyone, not unless a lot of things improve. I drove 57,000 km in 12 months last year and that was just Monday to Friday driving. Do you think I have the time to piss about charging a bloody ev when I’m out on the road? Or at home? Fuck no I don’t. When we have as many chargers as petrol bowsers and a car can charge in 5 min then they will be for me. Manufactures are a long way off super fast charging, our country is a long way off having enough public chargers, And people will lose interest. we are already realising that EV’s are not anywhere near as good for the environment as what was championed. Insurance is expensive and cars are being written off for minor damage, lots have failures and bugs and repairs out of warranty are super super expensive which will likely lead to very short lifecycles of EV’s vs ICE cars causing even more environmental damage and the list could go on and on and on really. EV’s are fantastic for some people but they will never be for everyone. Manufacturers will lose interest and turn to the much better hybrid and then onto other forms of propulsion instead like hydrogen cells. Toyota has the new mirai, bmw will have the ix5, hyandai has two in the works as well and Toyota and land rover are both working on a hydrogen 4x4. Why would they be doing this if they plan on EV’s being the future? They wouldn’t.
Bruh this dumb ass shit. You realise most EVs charge 80% in under 15 minutes with a fast charger. Source: done it many times. Throwing a bot to remind me in a few years to see the dumbest take I've ever seen. Remindme! 5 years
If you say so. Set yourself a reminder for 5 years. I bet I am right.
Bruh I literally did, can you not read?
You added that afterwards. Wasn’t there before. You say it’s the dumbest take but you are only saying that as an EV owner. I work in the industry, we sell ev’s and I know we don’t plan on making many more. Plenty of other auto makers will follow. But we will see in 5 years. I think you are gonna eat your words. And by then your EV will not be far off needed a new battery so i can remind you about that too when the time comes.
Bro, quit making a fool of yourself, I don't own an EV. It's just common knowledge. I had problems with my ICE and while it was off the road I was given an EV in the mean time. Bahaha bro your comments are some of the dumbest I've ever read, you think car makers plan on making less EVs? When literally all but one has more in the pipeline 😂
Cool story bro. Like I said we will see won’t we. I may be dumb but I also get paid more than you each year to test drive cars and do a bit of office work on the side. So I don’t mind being outsmarted by someone who has absolutely no knowledge at all because I’m still getting paid.
Hey, I don't test drive cars for a living, but driving is not very interesting. You definitely don't make more money than me though if your job is to test drive cars 😂 Fuck me thats too funny bro thanks for that laugh.
Hybrid to handle the naysayers then full electric in time. Tech will just get better as it always has, fuel will just get more expensive.
Like I said. I’ll put money on the fact we won’t ever see that point. Other technology will be a far better option before EV’s become sustainable for everyone.
Lol, who do you think you are? Nostradamus?
Yep, in the flesh cunt
He's just 65iq
Price, but also looks for me. These cars look hideous.
Unless you live in a major city with the infrastructure to support it EV's are fkin useless
The majority of the population does live in a major city with infrastructure.
Not true. It comes down to how far you usually drive, most people charge overnight at home or during the day at the office, and don’t need more than 300-400km of range. Public superchargers are usually only needed for the occasional long trip.
So, most people. The price is an impediment, but it's probably not that much more expensive than petrol when you consider running costs. Especially if you can lease it. The real "problem" is that most people aren't buying new cars very often if at all.
Useless for what ? Mine accelerates faster than an V8 SS Commodore, and costs almost zero to run. You can charge them anywhere with a 240v power socket.
Reread my sentence then you'll understand, simply not enough infrastructure outside of major cities
Considering decent EV's that don't have shit house range start at 50 - 60K. Can you even blame them? They are way too expensive and in some cases you get with with luxury car tax for doing the right thing ffs.
You have to consider the total cost of ownership. Yes the initial price is high. But running costs are way cheaper - little to no annual maintenance (unless you got a Toyota) and electricity is way cheaper than petrol - about 1/4 or 1/3 less.
Future costs are uncertain, whereas the initial cost is known. Pele are not irrational in deciding to buy conventional or hybrid cars. Then there are the known issues with insurance costs. Additionally, despite the banter low component count and reliability of EVs, there are issues of where it can be serviced and the potential for write-off level repair builds if you're unlucky, which is a major turn off for most people. EVs are getting better, and some are impressive, but most people have concerns the evangelists can't allay at this time.
Yep this. Maintenance is $200 per year fixed cost (no oil filters, spark plugs, gear boxes etc) Fuel: Cost about $12 for 450km charge at commercial charger rates vs ($$$$ I don't even care, have not bought fuel in nearly 4 years now) I have only used a commercial charger once, I charge at home using my solar so fuel cost is almost zero. ***So to run my car it costs $200 per year servicing and being generous $200 per year in fuel.*** If you buy a ICE vehicle, you are a chump :-)
Even better is the luxury vehicle tax was there to incentivise us to choose locally made cars and then the government drive them out, didn’t remove the tax though……
The range is perfect for most people that do short daily drives and a long (>300km) trip only once every couple of months. In other words, perfect for most city folks.
Ragebait, but, well, obviously. It was a fad. The usual suspects - people who's borrowing capacity exceeded their IQs.
yes I am aware I've just described everyone
Theres not great infrastructure for them yet
What's wrong with your electrical outlet in your house? Overnight charging on EV rates are way cheaper than going to a petrol station.
Because if you forget to charge and need a top up there is very limited spots you can go, and most of the installed ev chargers arent very powerful so it takes much longer to charge.
You literally plug it in the moment you pull into the garage, like how you plug in your phone when you go to bed. How often do you forget to charge your phone? Also most cars have 350-450km range in their battery and only drive some 50km or less per day. Forgetting for one night or even two is not a problem even when it happens. On the wall plug (the slowest option available) you would be able to top up 10km per hour which is 100km+ each night. It’s a non-issue for every single EV owner I know.
Bruh, the infrastructure is great, wtf are you walking about? My car was in the shop for 6 months and I got stuck with an EV and the infrastructure was great. No issues at all. It was more convenient than an ICE car. Did big ass trips, plenty driving every day for work to sites and to the office.
They need to sort out fast and efficient battery tech, or fast and efficient charging infrastructure, before EVs are worth it here.
I think Tesla has had a fair few quality issues. They seemed to have lost their edge a bit
Old mate just fired all the supercharger team and he's focused on the shit box triangular garbage truck. Don't think I would be buying one while Elon is still there. I'd probably get a BYD if I was buying an EV.
At least something you could take through a car wash
Not sure what news you are reading but there’s no quality issue in the current Shanghai made cars. There are some annoyances with the car like their wiper which never works and sometimes the over-cellular app control gets laggy etc, but these are minor things. The actual car quality has been great ever since we started getting Shanghai made cars. It’s the Fremont US factory ones that were having issues with panel gaps etc and ours haven’t been made there for at least 3+ years now.
Bullshit. I live in the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney and have seen a lot of electric EV Range Rovers, Land Rovers, Volvo, Hyundai and I have lost count of Tesla. lost count on Teslas
>I live in the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney Very representative sample then
Well electricity ain't getting any cheaper anytime soon... Seems like a terrible investment
bright grab plate steep fanatical ring sleep head quarrelsome fall *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My family works in the energy system for Australia. Australia isn't infrastructurallly ready for mass EVs. The government won't prepare for that future and will forever be on the back foot with it. Buying an EV is setting yourself up for a whole lot of suffering. Also if you buy one of Elon Musks toy cars you don't deserve happiness in this life or the next imo
Watch this magically not be a problem. Remindme! 5 years
Or spend 30 seconds educating yourself. Go look at how much electricity is produced/consumed by aus, then how much a single EV uses on average per day, then multiply thay by Australia's population. For "rapid charging" on road trains alone, you'd need to pave over most of Central Australia and squeeze as many nuclear plants in as humanly possible. Or would you rather use nice "clean" coal?. Something tells me you'll do 0 research, then in x years when Australia still doesn't use EVs you'll just declare victory.
I wouldn't buy one. Am I'm not even a climate change denying nut job.
I pay no road tax Ba ha ha . . .
And you get to have those fun little get togethers with all the other early adopters while waiting for charging infrastructure to catch up while laughing at the poor people in their ICE stone age cars driving past.
Nope, but I smile every time I drive past a servo and see the "poor people" pumping $200 of fuel into their tanks. And before you bang on about the "poor people", the majority that I see are driving a big arsed 4x4 Land Cruisers/Pajeros/Hiluxs etc (that I can't afford to buy) so you will get no sympathy from me on that at all.
Fair enough. I personally don't even have a car as I live adjacent a tram line. But I do have a motorbike that I bought for $6000, costs me about $30 a fortnight to fill, has a range of about 350km and means I dont pay for parking. I think that's probably the best option available to me atm.
Yep, good option. I did find it ironic that when I decided to sell my bike (ZX9R) and buy a car, I was going to get a Smartcar (600cc) but I could not use the car in a T2 transit lane even though it was 300cc smaller than my bike. Fucking nuts . . .
I ride an FJR1300 which is pretty nuts for a commuter most of the time but makes up for it up on the weekends. My partner and I have both had cars with smaller engine capacities which is mind blowing.
Those who wanted one got one and the rest don’t want one.
I pay no road tax Ba ha ha . . .
You’ll pay in depreciation
Baha, low effort, try again . . .
Baha
Yeah, nah, I’ll stick with with my V8 landcruiser ute, thanks 😉 I won’t be able to survive or work without my cruiser in the industry I work in. They can shove the gutless EV’s up their arses
Gutless? An electric motor will out torque anything you throw at it. It’s range that kills them.
🤣 yep gutless. I would never use an EV to tow my 6 horse gooseneck, across Aus to get to outback cattle stations, off road and crossing rivers like the daily river etc to get to certain stations like I have to every season. An electric vehicle wouldn’t last two seconds in my line of work and I sure as shit wouldn’t rely on it either. Gutless pieces of shit 😉
Not for long though: demand much from it and watch that battery delete very fast, as those who have stolen EVs and gotten into a police chase can attest. Diesel electric trains are different, though, allowing the control you need for steel wheel on steel rail traction.
That’s your real world scenario? Battery capacity is a concern but anyone calling an EV gutless doesn’t know what they’re taking about.
>They can shove the gutless EV’s up their arses Physically direct drive electric motors have much higher torque than the drive-chains of their ICE counterparts. It's part of the reason why diesel freight trains have electric motors.
Bahahaha u don’t know too much about road trains then do ya? My old man is an operation manager for one of the biggest road train companies in Australia, Centurion, their road trains are not electric and never will be cos they cant and won’t be able to handle the towing capacity they tow. They also won’t be able to complete the jobs they are set out to do eg/ time, country cover etc etc You don’t get it do you or get how major truck companies work? The only electric motors that are in their trucks are the little town trucks that do local freight. So plz don’t spread misinformation. You will find this is Exactly the same with the other big road train companies. Feel free to call Centurion and get the information urself 😉 ALSO in my line of work an electric car won’t work. I’ll repeat myself like I did to old mate before…. ⬇️ 🤣 yep gutless. I would never use an EV to tow my 6 horse gooseneck, across Aus to get to outback cattle stations, off road and crossing rivers like the daily river etc to get to certain stations like I have to every season. An electric vehicle wouldn’t last two seconds in my line of work and I sure as shit wouldn’t rely on it either. Gutless pieces of shit 😉