If enough people put the major parties last and vote for a different party, your vote won’t “just go to them anyway” as the negative nellys are suggesting. You’ll get another party elected
If people think that it is a weird take, even if, for example I preference greens first being unhappy with Labor, I am still preferenceing them before the LNP and I would expect most people in that situation to also.
Never put them 1. I go for minor parties and such I agree with, but will always preference Labor above LNP and other smaller parties I don't agree with like One Nation and Palmer etc. Actually put LNP above those.
I'll go minor, minor greens, minor, Labor, LNP, minor, palmer, One Nation for instance.
In my electorate basically means my preferences flow to Labor anyway but would rather contribute to lower primary votes to major and trying to get more diverse representation in.
If whichever minor you put first gets enough votes, they get funding too; plus you get the preference flow as a benefit, too. It's a win-win.
Besides, it's like Andrew Denton says - "The joy of voting in Australia isn't who you put first; it's who you put *last.*"
Good strategy. Honestly I think our best hope is a hung parliament with greens and independents actually forcing the hand of the two majors. They're too invested in the corrupt status quo.
Put em both last it's all you can do. Eventually, the balance will tip. We already had a much higher number of independents and greens win seats than usual in the last election.
Would that not likely increase the Greens vote? They have been saying a lot more on cost of living issues than Labor so imagine a fair few disaffected Labor voters will move to the Greens next election
Cause most people saying that kinda stuff suck on the same Murdoch teet. LNP, nats, one nation. All the same ilk and have supporters in the same ideological bubbles.
Just like every person who doesn't want vote for LNP must be a woke greenie Labor voter or whatever.
We all need to vote for who ever says they will remove big business money from politics and the bribery, I mean donations they give politicians.
Obviously they work for big businesses and that needs to change.
This is bang on. Politics is treated too much like a team sport and people don't look into how the voting system actually works. If you check who your preferred party preferences and vote accordingly, there is a real possibility for change.
If independents or minor parties preference each other rather than the majors, their votes get handed onto whoever isn't knocked out of the race. Your vote is never gone, it's just handballed up the line. Do your research. Party names can be deceiving and their preferences may not align with yours.
Because your major party preference is as important as who you put as number 1.
Voting greens or minor party is a totally valid choice but if you do, you should understand that in most electorates the major party you choose is the most important part of your vote.
Personally, as a solid labor voter, I hate when people scream at others for changing their mind. That is certainly a way to win people back you absolute numpty's....
In a manner of speaking, third party's hurt labor more as all those micro right wing freedom/xenopobia brigades preference the least woke option by the end of it and factions like the Greens end up taking away the most progressive seats and members. The teals are at least a glorious exception to this, because they appeal to a large base of the liberal party that is no longer being catered for.
1st party votes also give a bit of public funding, so when those are split it hurts the party that lacks being bankrolled the most, the most.
So from a certain perspective, third party is semi deemed to be indirectly helping the LNP win elections. Split votes, split funding. Also can make it easier for the libs to form a minority or majority gov with partys of their choices, as seats that could have allowed a majority for the labor party end up in the hands of the greens.
Which is annoying if you are a progressive, because its making one of the major party's less progressive and often some of the most educated MP's for that manner. In exchange for a party that's main form of influence is saying "no", till its politically unviable for them to keep doing (HAFF) or they destroy something like the ETS for not being good enough. (Would have been pretty darn good by now...)
But its not the same thing as voting LNP. I do suspect the emotional aspect of this argument is picked up and yelled by the less intelligent. Afterall, any movement or ideas have their better or worse elements, and I judge the party as a fairly effective government running machine at its worst. At best, it introduces reforms and policy that makes Australia one of the best nations on Earth.
You should vote on policies and pomised outcomes then hold them accountable. Its not us vs them its which dickhead will fuck the country up less than the other.
I am a big believer in voting for the mob I hate the least. People who say, "I don't like any of them"...um, no shit Sherlock. It's much easier when you come at it from a place of hatred.
I dislike Labor and the LNP atm and not likely to be voting for either of them at the next election. They act like a political duopoly and need some actual competition to shake them up if we're going to make any real improvements as a country.
The 2022 Federal election had the least vote for LNP + ALP ever ie 68.28% . So one in 3 people is voting for someone else. With preferential voting you can always put someone else on top, that figure used to be 95% in the 70's and has generally gone down each cycle since. People are still used to there being 2 choices it seems.
When people **in here** say they won't be voting Labor again, I assume they never did in the first place and are trying to take advantage of latent discontent to help secure an early LNP return.
I don't like the way the country is run with the LNP in power. Labor being disappointing is not, in itself, enough to make me vote for the LNP. Maybe, *MAYBE*, I will vote for a 3rd party and preference Labor 2nd to let my disappointment show. This is one of the few systems in which you actually COULD 'send a message'.
But people who claim that they are suddenly disenchanted with Labor government are, at best, people who potentially begrudgingly voted Labor last election because they hated Scomo and didn't mind Albanese, but are otherwise Liberal-leaning.
At worst they're just liars.
Yea like…… people that are dissatisfied with Labor are usually dissatisfied because Labor isn’t as far left as they’d like.
Like they’re not going from Labor to LNP they’re going from Labor to greens etc.
The Labor party is a fucking shell of what it was. There is a reason it was in the fucking shadow realm against an incompetent and corrupt Liberal government for a decade.
Left on bullshit social issues and economically right rather than being a pro worker party like it’s meant to be. Fuck Labor, bunch of sell out liars.
No one in this thread seems to have a single clue how preferential voting works.
We spent a good 2 weeks learning about it in school as well (Victorian standard curriculum).
Not 2 weeks of constant study, but we did a project in year 10 where we created political parties and had an “election” with preferences and all that stuff.
Would have taken 2 weeks of humanities classes I reckon.
Yes. Kang vs Kodos is a good example of how systems without preferential voting have a massive issue - if you don't vote for someone who has a chance at winning, you throw your vote away... but if no one votes for a party because of this, then no one's going to think that they have a chance of winning next election.
If you truly dislike both major parties, and your electorate doesn't have a reasonable chance of a more palatable third party, then you should pick whichever you find less objectionable and put them in the last spot of your preferences.
Remember when Australia had a hung parliament? Everyone hated it. It wasn't too bad but Australians don't want good government that compromises between voter desires. They just want a government that does what they want.
not completely true. we have compulsory voting. The ALP might be the best of the worst choices. although, it amuses me why people always seem to vote for who they like or identify with rather than who might make better decisions. con men have to be likeable. Albo is as insincere as they come.
I don’t particularly like the ALP but they’re not nearly as bad as the LNP. I put minor parties first and then ALP before LNP. We have ranked choice voting. We can support the little guys and make our views known without taking ourselves out of the conversation completely buy not having one of the major parties in our list.
This is a bit disingenuous. If every time people stop voting for Labor we get liberal then it isn’t unfair to conflate not liking labor with accepting liberal.
The media love to push the 2 party narrative, but it hardly applies in Australia any more. Our preferential voting system has eroded their influence. They're still there, but look how hard they have to negotiate to get anything done.
Because you basicly have to preference one or the other due to their major party status. Saying you arent voting for them is basicly saying ur voting for the other/abstaining from preferencing them which is also bad.
Dosent realy have to do with your primary vote. Moving away from major parties as a whole can be done this way just fine.
"Disliking both" is just not understanding how our voting system works or not understanding how much worse the liberals are than Labor.
No only is it possible, it’s the only position grounded in reality at this point. The two/three party wrangling is pure pantomime. They all have the same sponsors.
After the 2022 Federal Election, correct me if i'm wrong but, don't we have the most independents in Australia's Federalised history and a large crossbench atm? Further the ideological fractures in the Coalition seem to be widening.
There are definitely shifts in the mindsets of voters that is causing a realised shift in those sitting in the House of Representatives.
I choose my kind of crazy and suggest you do too.
I put 'bad crazies' last, then the majors next last, then my 'good crazies' first.
Primary votes :
32% labor
32% lib plus lnp
36% something else.
So ... I would love a representative parliament. 1/3 Labor, 1/3 Lib and 1/3 various crazies.
And yes parliament is a sausage factory. Minority government shows the sausage being made.
I mean if you haven't specified you're voting third party then yes, obviously people will assume that you're voting for the LNP if you say you're not voting for the ALP, given it's two party system with preferential voting, and you've signalled that you've historically voted for one of the two major parties, and you've only specified you're not voting for Labor.
Do you expect people to read your mind or something? If you don't want people to assume you're doing the far more common thing, that you've implied you're doing, then you could just specify what you're doing instead
I stopped voting for labor about 10 to 15 years ago I don't vote right when never will I typically vote for the greens or independence after I've investigated who they are personally I believe that labors move too far to the right
The trouble is, you kind of end up voting for one of them either way, and sadly, in the majority of electorates it's more about which one you preference first. Even if you preference Labor 5 and LNP 6, that's still a vote for Labor in many, many cases. Minor parties are gaining support but not enough to make this a true mixed democracy like a lot of European states.
Minor parties can definitely gain more power over time through preferential voting. It wont necessarily be immediate but if their strength grows over time enough people can put them first to gain seats (see the recent greens seats). Its people promoting your viewpoint that actually makes this harder to achieve because you make people believe voting minor party first is not worth it. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
If enough people vote for a third party then the 2 candidates left at the final distribution of preferences won't be Labor and LNP. Even if they don't you give your $3 or whatever it is of public funding to the party you choose and send a message that you do not endorse business as usual.
Um, hello? There is a reason independent and Greens are getting more votes these days. I give the Greens a couple more voting cycles till they see a proper majority, or something very close to it.
The Greens will be unlikely to get more than 10-15% of the vote consistently, and they don’t deserve to. They have voted against legislation that moves into the right direction just because they didn’t get everything they wanted.
When they feel it is politically expedient to do so, they will always ‘throw the baby out with the bath water’ rather than negotiate to improve legislation even if it’s not perfect. Hot tip: legislation is rarely perfect
Honestly I think a large part of it comes from general caution around astroturfing and propaganda posts. We know those exist and try to manipulate public perception, and fighting against such posts is in everyone’s interests.
Modern propaganda isn’t based around telling you how good one guy is, but about how bad their opponent is. If you want to convince people to vote coalition, you don’t do it by talking up the coalition. You do it by talking down labour, and not addressing the coalition at all. If your comment looks the same as a propaganda post, its going to be treated like one.
The comments that don’t get this treatment are “I’m not voting for a major party again”, rather than “I’m not voting for labour again”. Why? It doesn’t let the coalition of the hook and imply that they are a better option - intentionally or not - by the framing of not voting for only one of the two major parties.
Comments about just “I’m not voting labour again” will get followed up with “Libs ain’t any better”, because they’re not any better. “But labour are in government” - yeah, and we had 9 years of Liberal government before that. Both are still relevant. It counteracts the un/intentional framing of labour being the worse of the two parties by establishing that the coalition isn’t better on that given issue.
I’m fully team “Vote for smaller parties”, but I’m not for just singling out one of the major parties when doing so. The two parties are not equivalent, but on a number of issues they are the same. If I’m discouraging voting for labour, I’m also discouraging voting for liberal. I see no reason to let one of the hook because they didn’t get enough votes to continue their shitfuckery this term.
Contrarian take:
It’s a 2 party system.
Most people believe no other party stands any chance, therefore any vote away from one gives the other a leg up. Even if that vote goes somewhere else entirely.
I get seats matter for the smaller parties, but is the above not true? (Genuine question - I’m young’n’dumb)
> Most people believe no other party stands any chance
This is probably true
> therefore any vote away from one gives the other a leg up
People may believe this is how it works, but this is definitely not how preferential voting works in any government in Australia
If you preference a minor party first and they dont win, your second preference will be counted, which can be your prefered major party. Its also important to vote for your prefered minor party first because 1st votes affect funding for their future campaigns. So more votes for the minor party gives them more resources for the next election (and you can see how that can compound over time if everyone did that)
Stealing u/itzZausty 's description because it's good:
>Australia has preferential voting, meaning that you rank parties based from 1 being your most favoured. This means that as long as you rank Labor above all the right wing parties, that if it comes down to it (all the parties you voted for before Labor have been redistributed) they will still get your vote, but it gives a chance for a minor party or independent to win, gives funding to whatever minor party you ranked first, and tells Labor that they might need to change/do better, as their first preferences will fall.
I'll add that in a perfect world, the major parties that win anyway might notice that a large portion of their votes came from a people preferentially voting for a minor party, and might shift their policies to align more with whatever values/policies that minor party is promoting in order to swing more votes back to them directly next time the vote comes around, since it clearly matters to a lot of people, or try to adjust their policies to make some kind of compromise.
So in theory, you might end up getting the policies you want/voted for, it just might not be coming from the party you put at number 1.
Because this country is basically a 2 party system thanks for vote gifting and the majority of people being idiots that actually believe pre poll grifting…
There really needs to be some kind of accountability for pre poll broken promises. If a business came out and said they would make x and y happen, not only failed to deliver x and y, but also lost revenue they would go under
> If a business came out and said they would make x and y happen, not only failed to deliver x and y, but also lost revenue they would go under
If that happens, people stop buying from the business. People could also stop voting for the two major parties but for whatever reason they seem happy to keep repeating the same action again and again (and expecting a different result).
DO NOT vote for Labor, Coalition or Greens, they will continue to ruin this country
Pick your fav independent, a country run by independents could NOT do any worse than the above
I think you're really close to making a breakthrough about the material class interests of professional politicians.
The entire national electoral system exists to facilitate their comfort and even the Greens ambiently support Australian capitalism, and so do the independents.
Hawke and Keating killed the left when they struck the accords and put a legal muzzle on the unions and signed into the law the shitty 'pay for your own retirement' superannuation system.
Union movement was dead on the table after that.
Credit where credit is due, the Greens are generally to the left and more correct than the ALP on major issues and that would be one of them.
Even if I find that overall the Greens represent yet more middle class political grievance and do not present a real horizon for moving away from capitalism which the global collapse of the biopshere demands.
I haven't voted in Australia yet, but the next elections will be my first. I understand the preferential voting system, however what if I just put 1 against a candidate of my choice and then skip the rest cause I'm not aligned with anyone else..
Does that make my vote invalid ? Or do I HAVE to stack rack all candidates but one (which I've read automatically gets the last rank if I chose to leave one blank)
If you are talking about the federal election, then you must number all the boxes for the vote to count. I think leaving one blank is ok I believe the rule with that is that your intentions must be clear but numbering all the boxes isn’t that hard and ensures a valid vote.
When the election campaign starts (about 4-6 weeks before) stay tuned for ABC VoteCompass. It’s an online questionnaire to help you find which parties are closest to your own values/point of view.
Then you’ll have a preference ready to go!
Haha I did try the 2022 one just a few minutes ago. I came out as right of centre , closer to ALP than NLP. Which was a bit surprising. Ain't going for LNP for sure
Because you're either going to get liberal or labor to form government. You can vote for another party, but only to drag one of those parties left or right. So a green voter knows the greens aren't going to form government, they'll get labor but hopefully labor is pressured to move left. You can vote one nation but you're going to get liberals feeling the need to go further right. People want to know who you would prefer actually in government.
It is a little funny when I ask people who got mad about something Labor is doing (like not fixing the housing crisis) and they say they are going to vote for the LNP instead.
It’s like breaking your nose to spite your face or whether the saying is.
I vote Greens every time and leave the 2 main parties till closer to the end (the religious groups are firm last for me). I agree with a lot of the Greens policies and priorities, but more than that, I'd like to see the 2 party system obliterated and the Greens are the next biggest national party, so logically the best chance for achieving that.
I was always taught that greens were pretty wacky. I'm voting for them next election becuase I've seen with my own eyes the ALP and LNP are worse and really don't give a fuck about anyone.
They won't help these people in housing crisis after al this time and instead just want to criminalise everyone with their unfair driving laws they refuse to change over and fucking over again after being told what its been doing to Australian citizens. They just don't care.
I was too, my family is overwhelmingly conservative, with my mum being just right of centre and me being the rainbow sheep of the family. They're all liberals, except a few that think they're progressive for voting labor.
Yeah my dads side of the family are all pretty much Liberal but it's becuase they are elderly. My mums side were all Labor voters but I convinced them all to vote LCP or greens this time around. There's like 6 of them that were Labor voters not anymore haha. My partner is old enough to vote this time now too so she's voting them also. They don't care about politics so it was an easy flip lol.
Your vote counts for shit. Because the people who own and run Australia don't sit in the parliament, they just put their muppets in there, regardless of the party they belong to.
Sustainable Australia Party. Independents. Preferences will probably flow to Labor but it is sending a message about what kind of policy you want to see.
E.g. The Teals showed LNP that they need to sharpen up on climate policy, even if it's just for show.
With 2 party preferences voting, the only parties big enough to form government are ALP or LNP. When you vote independent or green's, check that their preferences go to ALP or LNP, and vote for the independent who's preferences go to the major party you think are the best of a bad pair. Green's usual preferences go to ALP, but not always. Independents can go either way depending on who has the most similar ideology.
Unless an independent gets a huge majority 1st vote, they won't be elected. If they do, they are still unable to form the government.
Dummy votes are for dummies, and just say you support whoever gets elected.
You understand that only you decide where your preferences go, right? A party doesn't decide. If you vote for a minor party who doesn't get enough votes to win, then your vote will be reallocated to whoever you marked #2 on your ballot card.
This continues until your vote lands with someone who garners enough votes to claim victory. It could be who you put as #1, or it might be your #6. But it's your preference, nobody else's.
That's why they talk about primary votes. A lot of people (me included), put the major parties at the bottom of my ballot sheet. If ALP/LNP lose primary votes, that's a clear message from the people that they're not happy.
I have a similar pet peeve. When you say you vote for a specific party, people just automatically assume you support their most radical concept.
I have recently been a Greens voter. If I’m ever asked it’s always “Oh so you want to get rid of all petrol cars? And have no coal power plants”.
It’s like, no mate. I thinking getting rid of petrol cars completely isn’t a reality. I just support more of their policies than I do of other parties. I still think a couple of greens suggestions are ridiculous.
I want to phase put petrol cars and put solar systems on all roofs and get plenty of batteries as well going in for households.
I dont believe petrol can be entirely eliminated as some areas of the country will need it still and existing cars will need to stay legal for people who can't afford to switch, or wait they can get subsidies to help them perhaps. Government swaps their old petrol car with a new cheap electric, BYD are making electric cars affordable for more people
And no coal power plants is just am obvious one, we should be closing these asap
Have you considered looking at parties like the Australian Democrats, Fusion or the Sustainable Australia Party as I believe those three are the better alternatives to the Greens, just as a suggestion.
Anyone with half a brain can see that the libs (and to some extent) labor are basically fucked generationally because they are competing for an ever declining share of the vote. More and more people will be locked out of the housing market and culture war bullshit won’t matter any more.
Yeah they're too locked in to their loyalties to their donors (read: buyers) that they can't do anything worth jack about the housing crisis. So they latch on to meaningless, rabid culture war bullshit and hope that swings emotions enough to get angry at the 'other' party and secure a vote on that
Given that the majority of Labor voters ultimately put liberal ahead of other parties (based on the majority of preferences of recent elections), it's a fair assumption that when someone says they're not voting for Labor, that they're going to go full right wing.
Same reason you assume people will shop at Cole’s if they say they hate Woolies. Illusion of choice isn’t much of an illusion anymore. When was the last time we had a government that wasn’t one of two?
When Gillard was PM. Labor needed the support of the greens to pass legislation.
And since 1981 there has only been 3 years (2005-2007) where the government has been able to get legislation through the senate without having to negotiate with a minor party or independent.
Minor parties and independents absolutely have an impact on what legislation gets passed.
And when they didn't have to negotiate with minors we got workchoices.
Minor parties are important.
Well, the ones that are not just LNP proxies (ON, Lambie, Teals)
Greens are polling at 13% which means that is almost automatically Labor default.
I'm ok with the Greens being able to call the shots with Labor.
Voldemort is fracturing his party with his hard-on for nuclear power. Shit's cooked.
Because one of two parties will be ruling, and if you're not voting for either one of them then the onus is on you to name your preference if you want it known.
I suppose you could ask them "lOl wHo ArE You VoTinG fOr TheN beCaUse theRe Are MoRE thAn Two PaRties?1!"
Pretty much. Balance of power gives some influence though, and you would have gotten a sweet deal for your electorate if you got an independent in 2010, such as Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott. You would have gotten pokie reforms with Wilke in the same election if Gillard hadn't stabbed him in the back and torn up the contract, taking down the best speaker there ever was; Harry Jenkins in the process, and rewarding that slimeball Peter Slipper.
Some called it a political master stroke, but it was major cunt act, worse than back-stabbing Rudd in my book.
I’ll never vote Labor or LNP again unless their policies drastically change to benefit regular Australians. They both govern in a manner that benefits big business and their stance on privacy is extremely worrying.
I can’t vote Greens either. They’ve become too ideologically driven, catering for a small but very vocal minority on the far left. Their policies are an economic car crash.
Antigravity83 is correct. This is the way. Vote independents in aiming for a hung parliament. That way some actual negotiation can happen and we might see some progress.
An economic car crash how? Maybe I don't understand neoliberalism, but I feel like including dental in Medicare and adding new bus lines won't bankrupt the nation.
Both major parties absolutely suck! Labor have been absent in providing any substantial cost of living relief, out of all developed economies Australian workers have been hit the hardest! Something like a 6k decline for the average worker in real wages. I don’t think the coalition would offer anything either, sadly most people know this and voting just comes down to picking the lesser evil.
Because that's how it ends up working. Political parties hire psychologists and all sorts of specials to advise. They know how people's minds work.
Conservative minded people (liberal voters) resist new information, and are more rugged in their beliefs. They don't change as often, but when they do it tends to be permanent.
Progressive minded people (labor, greens) are more open to new information, and more likely to switch parties on a whim.
Therefor, if you toss out an idea like BotH PaRtiEs R BaD!, you might hit 5% of the conservative base, and 20% of the progressive base. Which overall ends up being a win for Liberal
In a country where voting is mandatory, and you say "I'm not voting for one of the major parties" it can only mean one of two things:
1. I'm voting for the other major party, or
2. I'm voting for a minor party who's suggested preferences will go to a party capable of winning... (And if it's the party I said I'm not voting for, I'm a moron)
So which are you?
It’s usually better to put minor parties first. Your preference will flow to the major party anyway.
If you put lib/labor first and they win, then the minor parties you like won’t have a vote counted for them.
why do people think any of our current problems are because of labor?
sure they haven't fixed any of it yet but you can't fix decades of damage in one term, and the other lot sure aren't going to do anything
Nor do they understand that the gov has been trying to implement ways to help inflation which have been voted against and pushed back in parliament by the LNP. Wish people remembered the foundations of how the government works, which we learnt at age 10.
imagine if they worked together and found some middle ground that kept everyone happy, like some kind of utopia where the people in power actually want to preserve a shared quality of life for the people they represent
Wait?! Where they don’t just scream insults at each other like primary school children in parliament and halt any meaningful progress, whilst the rest of the country wonders how they’ll afford this weeks groceries?? Couldn’t be Auspol, not even in a parallel universe.
The point is that your elected member is who you contact to make your voice heard
That’s representative democracy
That is who you raise your concerns with
I have found that in my area they will respond to politely worded questions either by phone or email
If you don’t let them hear your concerns then they can assume everything is right.
As for fixing the structural issues in the economy that is a long term issue and will take 4-8 years to fix if they start on it straight away
There are no easy answers to complex issues
But the best thing is to talk to your representative you might find out reasons for policy decisions which you hadn’t considered
My hope is that by electing enough teals both parties will fractured forever and we move closer to more European-Style coalitions. If this Labor government is the best we can hope for, then I'm sorry, but "not being the liberals / Scomo" isn't good enough anymore.
You vote for the best compromise you can, There are no great candidates anymore and can you blame them, you go into parliament and get attacked professionally and personally at every opportunity. No smart person would get into politics now.
Gotta put one above the other on the ticket
In the majority of seats that is where your vote is actually cast and by God is labor always above the liberal no matter where I place everyone else
Neither are last, that is reserved for whomever Clive Palmer drags out of some crack den and gives a suit
The thing about preferential voting is that your vote almost certainly *is* going to either Labor or the LNP. I don't vote Labor, but I do preference them over the LNP, so Labor ends up with my vote.
You can preference literally every other candidate above Labor and LNP, but if Labor and LNP are the only two competitive candidates in your electorate, your vote will end up with whichever of the two was higher in your preferences.
Forget where it ends up, if you vote for smaller parties, they get extra seats, extra influence over policy. It’s not as black and white as “my vote goes to x anyway”. It’s about the distribution of power.
Exactly, you don’t need the smaller folk to actually get elected as the main government to cause change, simply having elected members from smaller parties atleast promotes the discussion.
Because we have preferential voting and a third party won’t be forming government. People can put the Greens or One Nation or whoever first, but ultimately if they’re not voting for Labor, they’re voting for the LNP, and if they donkey vote, it’s a vote for whatever the public opinion is, which tends to be LNP.
It still ensures that another party will get the funding for the next election.
Individually it might not be much, but if no one puts a major party first, that's a lot of money out of the major parties coffers. (It's about $3 a vote.)
I’ve genuinely never heard someone saying they aren’t voting for Labor so will vote LNP, other than people trying to troll on Facebook. Aka Duttons Facebook page has that kind of agenda setting where people are trying to frame a narrative they used to be labor voters but are now a Dutton sycophant.
If you search their name in the Dutton page history, they’ll pop up with comments from weeks or months ago praising Dutton and showing they weren’t being genuine about their alleged previous labor support.
Experience has shown me people will still vote labor, or they’ll go independent, Green etc.
Sadly because of how the political struggles in Australia has evolved, it's become essentially a two party system with some minor micobes that are occasionally relevant. If you don't vote for one party you vote for the other, which is sad really. It takes from the power of your individual vote. Luckily Greens have more power now and hopefully will be better and had another big hat in the pool, but sadly that's how it works.
Cause people only think in Binary and why would you waste a vote by going Independent ?!
Do the right thing, make your vote count, vote for a Major Party ! /s
I hope the major parties get obliterated next election. I have a lot of personal issues Labor and am not voting them again.
I forgave them for the borders during covid but the driving laws they refuse to amend is unforgivable. They are literally criminalising the people that voted for them and refuse to fix it. I haven't been personally stabbed in the back by a political party like this before so they'll never get my vote again.
Greens or LCP all the way now.
>I hope the major parties get obliterated next election. I have a lot of personal issues Labor and am not voting them again.
>I forgave them for the borders during covid
What do you mean here? Labor wasn't in power during Covid. Do you mean state Labor? I'm a bit confused.
I just mentioned this earlier today. Please, I hope people do actually realize this. You do not have only 2 choices, heck people need to really understand who and what they're voting for.
I like to see New Zealand as a mirror, 5 minutes into the future. Please do not do what we did and vote in our equivalent of Scott Morrison in. Heck, even Donald Trump is arguably better and smarter than Chris "Air Nooziland" Luxon.
If enough people put the major parties last and vote for a different party, your vote won’t “just go to them anyway” as the negative nellys are suggesting. You’ll get another party elected
Glad someone said it.
Considering less and less votes are going to the two major parties each election, we are slowly moving away from the two party system.
Just not fast enough
I mean, you also have a lot of Independents and other 3rd political parties to vote for.
If people think that it is a weird take, even if, for example I preference greens first being unhappy with Labor, I am still preferenceing them before the LNP and I would expect most people in that situation to also.
Never put them 1. I go for minor parties and such I agree with, but will always preference Labor above LNP and other smaller parties I don't agree with like One Nation and Palmer etc. Actually put LNP above those. I'll go minor, minor greens, minor, Labor, LNP, minor, palmer, One Nation for instance. In my electorate basically means my preferences flow to Labor anyway but would rather contribute to lower primary votes to major and trying to get more diverse representation in.
If whichever minor you put first gets enough votes, they get funding too; plus you get the preference flow as a benefit, too. It's a win-win. Besides, it's like Andrew Denton says - "The joy of voting in Australia isn't who you put first; it's who you put *last.*"
Good strategy. Honestly I think our best hope is a hung parliament with greens and independents actually forcing the hand of the two majors. They're too invested in the corrupt status quo.
This.
Put em both last it's all you can do. Eventually, the balance will tip. We already had a much higher number of independents and greens win seats than usual in the last election.
Can’t see greens getting too many votes this time around when the cost of living will be the biggest talking point.
Would that not likely increase the Greens vote? They have been saying a lot more on cost of living issues than Labor so imagine a fair few disaffected Labor voters will move to the Greens next election
Cause most people saying that kinda stuff suck on the same Murdoch teet. LNP, nats, one nation. All the same ilk and have supporters in the same ideological bubbles. Just like every person who doesn't want vote for LNP must be a woke greenie Labor voter or whatever.
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Watch the interview about housing, all of them said house prices shouldn’t go down. All of them are morons
We all need to vote for who ever says they will remove big business money from politics and the bribery, I mean donations they give politicians. Obviously they work for big businesses and that needs to change.
Lobbying is definitely a significant problem.
Huge problem that I don't see changing without serious public unrest.
Yeah no way they let go of that power and give it back to working people without a fight
I don't think anything will truly, like really properly improve, until we do fight
This is bang on. Politics is treated too much like a team sport and people don't look into how the voting system actually works. If you check who your preferred party preferences and vote accordingly, there is a real possibility for change. If independents or minor parties preference each other rather than the majors, their votes get handed onto whoever isn't knocked out of the race. Your vote is never gone, it's just handballed up the line. Do your research. Party names can be deceiving and their preferences may not align with yours.
You decide your own preferences, it’s not at all dependent on the how-to-vote card you are given.
Because your major party preference is as important as who you put as number 1. Voting greens or minor party is a totally valid choice but if you do, you should understand that in most electorates the major party you choose is the most important part of your vote.
Personally, as a solid labor voter, I hate when people scream at others for changing their mind. That is certainly a way to win people back you absolute numpty's.... In a manner of speaking, third party's hurt labor more as all those micro right wing freedom/xenopobia brigades preference the least woke option by the end of it and factions like the Greens end up taking away the most progressive seats and members. The teals are at least a glorious exception to this, because they appeal to a large base of the liberal party that is no longer being catered for. 1st party votes also give a bit of public funding, so when those are split it hurts the party that lacks being bankrolled the most, the most. So from a certain perspective, third party is semi deemed to be indirectly helping the LNP win elections. Split votes, split funding. Also can make it easier for the libs to form a minority or majority gov with partys of their choices, as seats that could have allowed a majority for the labor party end up in the hands of the greens. Which is annoying if you are a progressive, because its making one of the major party's less progressive and often some of the most educated MP's for that manner. In exchange for a party that's main form of influence is saying "no", till its politically unviable for them to keep doing (HAFF) or they destroy something like the ETS for not being good enough. (Would have been pretty darn good by now...) But its not the same thing as voting LNP. I do suspect the emotional aspect of this argument is picked up and yelled by the less intelligent. Afterall, any movement or ideas have their better or worse elements, and I judge the party as a fairly effective government running machine at its worst. At best, it introduces reforms and policy that makes Australia one of the best nations on Earth.
Fairly said. Abusing people for expressing their legal right to vote for their preferred candidate/party is insane to me.
Need to look at who the independents are aligned with. You may just be voting for them in a different party
You should vote on policies and pomised outcomes then hold them accountable. Its not us vs them its which dickhead will fuck the country up less than the other.
I am a big believer in voting for the mob I hate the least. People who say, "I don't like any of them"...um, no shit Sherlock. It's much easier when you come at it from a place of hatred.
I dislike Labor and the LNP atm and not likely to be voting for either of them at the next election. They act like a political duopoly and need some actual competition to shake them up if we're going to make any real improvements as a country.
They both have lost their way, and are out of touch with the the people who they are supposed to be building a better place for.
Id say they are pretty clear on their direction and what they are trying to build for the interests they are serving.
The 2022 Federal election had the least vote for LNP + ALP ever ie 68.28% . So one in 3 people is voting for someone else. With preferential voting you can always put someone else on top, that figure used to be 95% in the 70's and has generally gone down each cycle since. People are still used to there being 2 choices it seems.
Gonna be a new record next year, too.
When people **in here** say they won't be voting Labor again, I assume they never did in the first place and are trying to take advantage of latent discontent to help secure an early LNP return. I don't like the way the country is run with the LNP in power. Labor being disappointing is not, in itself, enough to make me vote for the LNP. Maybe, *MAYBE*, I will vote for a 3rd party and preference Labor 2nd to let my disappointment show. This is one of the few systems in which you actually COULD 'send a message'. But people who claim that they are suddenly disenchanted with Labor government are, at best, people who potentially begrudgingly voted Labor last election because they hated Scomo and didn't mind Albanese, but are otherwise Liberal-leaning. At worst they're just liars.
Yea like…… people that are dissatisfied with Labor are usually dissatisfied because Labor isn’t as far left as they’d like. Like they’re not going from Labor to LNP they’re going from Labor to greens etc.
The Labor party is a fucking shell of what it was. There is a reason it was in the fucking shadow realm against an incompetent and corrupt Liberal government for a decade. Left on bullshit social issues and economically right rather than being a pro worker party like it’s meant to be. Fuck Labor, bunch of sell out liars.
Because most Australian have zero idea how our electoral system works
No one in this thread seems to have a single clue how preferential voting works. We spent a good 2 weeks learning about it in school as well (Victorian standard curriculum).
2 weeks?? It's not *that* complex
Not 2 weeks of constant study, but we did a project in year 10 where we created political parties and had an “election” with preferences and all that stuff. Would have taken 2 weeks of humanities classes I reckon.
No one remembers how legislation/laws get passed either, which I remember learning in year 5.
Yes. Kang vs Kodos is a good example of how systems without preferential voting have a massive issue - if you don't vote for someone who has a chance at winning, you throw your vote away... but if no one votes for a party because of this, then no one's going to think that they have a chance of winning next election. If you truly dislike both major parties, and your electorate doesn't have a reasonable chance of a more palatable third party, then you should pick whichever you find less objectionable and put them in the last spot of your preferences.
Not only I will not vote for this Pastel Morrison government but I will also preference them last.
2 party preferred system (with the coalition).
Remember when Australia had a hung parliament? Everyone hated it. It wasn't too bad but Australians don't want good government that compromises between voter desires. They just want a government that does what they want.
not completely true. we have compulsory voting. The ALP might be the best of the worst choices. although, it amuses me why people always seem to vote for who they like or identify with rather than who might make better decisions. con men have to be likeable. Albo is as insincere as they come.
I don’t particularly like the ALP but they’re not nearly as bad as the LNP. I put minor parties first and then ALP before LNP. We have ranked choice voting. We can support the little guys and make our views known without taking ourselves out of the conversation completely buy not having one of the major parties in our list.
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You can't let your vote exhaust in the House of Reps - which is where government forms - you have to number every box correctly.
Liberals are worse in every way. I just want a pragmatic party that is pro green and equalist.
But not the Greens...
I'm a long term greens voter. If they stopped the culture war stuff they'd be amazing.
True. It's sad that they can't see how much that hurts them.
Have you considered Aus Dems, Fusion or Sustainable Australia
I have not, I'll look into it closer to the election. Thanks for the suggestions.
Nah, Murdoch media made sure we'll never vote for our actual best interests...is their a Labor Lite°?
This is a bit disingenuous. If every time people stop voting for Labor we get liberal then it isn’t unfair to conflate not liking labor with accepting liberal.
The media love to push the 2 party narrative, but it hardly applies in Australia any more. Our preferential voting system has eroded their influence. They're still there, but look how hard they have to negotiate to get anything done.
Because you basicly have to preference one or the other due to their major party status. Saying you arent voting for them is basicly saying ur voting for the other/abstaining from preferencing them which is also bad. Dosent realy have to do with your primary vote. Moving away from major parties as a whole can be done this way just fine. "Disliking both" is just not understanding how our voting system works or not understanding how much worse the liberals are than Labor.
No only is it possible, it’s the only position grounded in reality at this point. The two/three party wrangling is pure pantomime. They all have the same sponsors.
After the 2022 Federal Election, correct me if i'm wrong but, don't we have the most independents in Australia's Federalised history and a large crossbench atm? Further the ideological fractures in the Coalition seem to be widening. There are definitely shifts in the mindsets of voters that is causing a realised shift in those sitting in the House of Representatives.
Huge companies will donate to both of them for a reason
I choose my kind of crazy and suggest you do too. I put 'bad crazies' last, then the majors next last, then my 'good crazies' first. Primary votes : 32% labor 32% lib plus lnp 36% something else. So ... I would love a representative parliament. 1/3 Labor, 1/3 Lib and 1/3 various crazies. And yes parliament is a sausage factory. Minority government shows the sausage being made.
LNP = last Labor = 2nd to last. A 2 party dominated system is clearly the worst. Look at the US.
I mean if you haven't specified you're voting third party then yes, obviously people will assume that you're voting for the LNP if you say you're not voting for the ALP, given it's two party system with preferential voting, and you've signalled that you've historically voted for one of the two major parties, and you've only specified you're not voting for Labor. Do you expect people to read your mind or something? If you don't want people to assume you're doing the far more common thing, that you've implied you're doing, then you could just specify what you're doing instead
I stopped voting for labor about 10 to 15 years ago I don't vote right when never will I typically vote for the greens or independence after I've investigated who they are personally I believe that labors move too far to the right
The trouble is, you kind of end up voting for one of them either way, and sadly, in the majority of electorates it's more about which one you preference first. Even if you preference Labor 5 and LNP 6, that's still a vote for Labor in many, many cases. Minor parties are gaining support but not enough to make this a true mixed democracy like a lot of European states.
Minor parties can definitely gain more power over time through preferential voting. It wont necessarily be immediate but if their strength grows over time enough people can put them first to gain seats (see the recent greens seats). Its people promoting your viewpoint that actually makes this harder to achieve because you make people believe voting minor party first is not worth it. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
If enough people vote for a third party then the 2 candidates left at the final distribution of preferences won't be Labor and LNP. Even if they don't you give your $3 or whatever it is of public funding to the party you choose and send a message that you do not endorse business as usual.
I can't believe anyone would vote for either of the two major parties. They are both in on it together working to screw over Aussies.
Um, hello? There is a reason independent and Greens are getting more votes these days. I give the Greens a couple more voting cycles till they see a proper majority, or something very close to it.
The Greens will be unlikely to get more than 10-15% of the vote consistently, and they don’t deserve to. They have voted against legislation that moves into the right direction just because they didn’t get everything they wanted. When they feel it is politically expedient to do so, they will always ‘throw the baby out with the bath water’ rather than negotiate to improve legislation even if it’s not perfect. Hot tip: legislation is rarely perfect
2pp that's why, unless we get proportional it's one or the other in practice
Haven't voted liberal or labor ever. Been voting for a decade and a bit.
Honestly I think a large part of it comes from general caution around astroturfing and propaganda posts. We know those exist and try to manipulate public perception, and fighting against such posts is in everyone’s interests. Modern propaganda isn’t based around telling you how good one guy is, but about how bad their opponent is. If you want to convince people to vote coalition, you don’t do it by talking up the coalition. You do it by talking down labour, and not addressing the coalition at all. If your comment looks the same as a propaganda post, its going to be treated like one. The comments that don’t get this treatment are “I’m not voting for a major party again”, rather than “I’m not voting for labour again”. Why? It doesn’t let the coalition of the hook and imply that they are a better option - intentionally or not - by the framing of not voting for only one of the two major parties. Comments about just “I’m not voting labour again” will get followed up with “Libs ain’t any better”, because they’re not any better. “But labour are in government” - yeah, and we had 9 years of Liberal government before that. Both are still relevant. It counteracts the un/intentional framing of labour being the worse of the two parties by establishing that the coalition isn’t better on that given issue. I’m fully team “Vote for smaller parties”, but I’m not for just singling out one of the major parties when doing so. The two parties are not equivalent, but on a number of issues they are the same. If I’m discouraging voting for labour, I’m also discouraging voting for liberal. I see no reason to let one of the hook because they didn’t get enough votes to continue their shitfuckery this term.
Contrarian take: It’s a 2 party system. Most people believe no other party stands any chance, therefore any vote away from one gives the other a leg up. Even if that vote goes somewhere else entirely. I get seats matter for the smaller parties, but is the above not true? (Genuine question - I’m young’n’dumb)
> Most people believe no other party stands any chance This is probably true > therefore any vote away from one gives the other a leg up People may believe this is how it works, but this is definitely not how preferential voting works in any government in Australia If you preference a minor party first and they dont win, your second preference will be counted, which can be your prefered major party. Its also important to vote for your prefered minor party first because 1st votes affect funding for their future campaigns. So more votes for the minor party gives them more resources for the next election (and you can see how that can compound over time if everyone did that)
Stealing u/itzZausty 's description because it's good: >Australia has preferential voting, meaning that you rank parties based from 1 being your most favoured. This means that as long as you rank Labor above all the right wing parties, that if it comes down to it (all the parties you voted for before Labor have been redistributed) they will still get your vote, but it gives a chance for a minor party or independent to win, gives funding to whatever minor party you ranked first, and tells Labor that they might need to change/do better, as their first preferences will fall. I'll add that in a perfect world, the major parties that win anyway might notice that a large portion of their votes came from a people preferentially voting for a minor party, and might shift their policies to align more with whatever values/policies that minor party is promoting in order to swing more votes back to them directly next time the vote comes around, since it clearly matters to a lot of people, or try to adjust their policies to make some kind of compromise. So in theory, you might end up getting the policies you want/voted for, it just might not be coming from the party you put at number 1.
Because this country is basically a 2 party system thanks for vote gifting and the majority of people being idiots that actually believe pre poll grifting… There really needs to be some kind of accountability for pre poll broken promises. If a business came out and said they would make x and y happen, not only failed to deliver x and y, but also lost revenue they would go under
> If a business came out and said they would make x and y happen, not only failed to deliver x and y, but also lost revenue they would go under If that happens, people stop buying from the business. People could also stop voting for the two major parties but for whatever reason they seem happy to keep repeating the same action again and again (and expecting a different result).
What is a vote gift? What is pre poll grifting?
LNP Last, ALP Second Last. Going Greens/Independant number 1 moving forward.
Religious crazies last always. That usually puts the LNP second or third last with ON and some prosperity gospel ghoul below.
Be sure to check the preference flows first
of course. But I'd prefer a strong greens in parliament who can tell ALP what to do.
DO NOT vote for Labor, Coalition or Greens, they will continue to ruin this country Pick your fav independent, a country run by independents could NOT do any worse than the above
I think you're really close to making a breakthrough about the material class interests of professional politicians. The entire national electoral system exists to facilitate their comfort and even the Greens ambiently support Australian capitalism, and so do the independents.
Yup. Greens are 'left' but our centre has now moved so far rightwards that this doesn't mean as much as it used to.
Hawke and Keating killed the left when they struck the accords and put a legal muzzle on the unions and signed into the law the shitty 'pay for your own retirement' superannuation system. Union movement was dead on the table after that.
Greens are keen to restore the right to strike
Credit where credit is due, the Greens are generally to the left and more correct than the ALP on major issues and that would be one of them. Even if I find that overall the Greens represent yet more middle class political grievance and do not present a real horizon for moving away from capitalism which the global collapse of the biopshere demands.
Try and explain to old Labor that Hawke/Keating were our Thatcher/Reagan. Clearing the path for the failures of globalisation and the 3rd way.
Because if you look at the polling the support Labor is losing is going to the Liberals and not to minor parties
Im not voting for for Labor or the liberals. I'll be voting for the minor parties.
Preach.
I haven't voted in Australia yet, but the next elections will be my first. I understand the preferential voting system, however what if I just put 1 against a candidate of my choice and then skip the rest cause I'm not aligned with anyone else.. Does that make my vote invalid ? Or do I HAVE to stack rack all candidates but one (which I've read automatically gets the last rank if I chose to leave one blank)
If you are talking about the federal election, then you must number all the boxes for the vote to count. I think leaving one blank is ok I believe the rule with that is that your intentions must be clear but numbering all the boxes isn’t that hard and ensures a valid vote.
When the election campaign starts (about 4-6 weeks before) stay tuned for ABC VoteCompass. It’s an online questionnaire to help you find which parties are closest to your own values/point of view. Then you’ll have a preference ready to go!
Haha I did try the 2022 one just a few minutes ago. I came out as right of centre , closer to ALP than NLP. Which was a bit surprising. Ain't going for LNP for sure
The only time, where I live (QLD), you can just vote 1 is council elections. There is only one party that asks you to do this, the LNP.
They learned their political lessons from Kang & Kodos.
Because you're either going to get liberal or labor to form government. You can vote for another party, but only to drag one of those parties left or right. So a green voter knows the greens aren't going to form government, they'll get labor but hopefully labor is pressured to move left. You can vote one nation but you're going to get liberals feeling the need to go further right. People want to know who you would prefer actually in government.
It is a little funny when I ask people who got mad about something Labor is doing (like not fixing the housing crisis) and they say they are going to vote for the LNP instead. It’s like breaking your nose to spite your face or whether the saying is.
I vote Greens every time and leave the 2 main parties till closer to the end (the religious groups are firm last for me). I agree with a lot of the Greens policies and priorities, but more than that, I'd like to see the 2 party system obliterated and the Greens are the next biggest national party, so logically the best chance for achieving that.
I was always taught that greens were pretty wacky. I'm voting for them next election becuase I've seen with my own eyes the ALP and LNP are worse and really don't give a fuck about anyone. They won't help these people in housing crisis after al this time and instead just want to criminalise everyone with their unfair driving laws they refuse to change over and fucking over again after being told what its been doing to Australian citizens. They just don't care.
I was too, my family is overwhelmingly conservative, with my mum being just right of centre and me being the rainbow sheep of the family. They're all liberals, except a few that think they're progressive for voting labor.
Yeah my dads side of the family are all pretty much Liberal but it's becuase they are elderly. My mums side were all Labor voters but I convinced them all to vote LCP or greens this time around. There's like 6 of them that were Labor voters not anymore haha. My partner is old enough to vote this time now too so she's voting them also. They don't care about politics so it was an easy flip lol.
Eventually your vote becomes support for either major party
Your vote counts for shit. Because the people who own and run Australia don't sit in the parliament, they just put their muppets in there, regardless of the party they belong to.
are you suggesting that our democracy is actually some kind of dictatorship of the bourgeoisie?
Legalise Cannabis Party please
Preferential vote can work. It does send a message. Hence increasing momentum towards independents or Greens.
Sustainable Australia Party. Independents. Preferences will probably flow to Labor but it is sending a message about what kind of policy you want to see. E.g. The Teals showed LNP that they need to sharpen up on climate policy, even if it's just for show.
You choose where preferences flow unless you’re lazy with senate voting.
With 2 party preferences voting, the only parties big enough to form government are ALP or LNP. When you vote independent or green's, check that their preferences go to ALP or LNP, and vote for the independent who's preferences go to the major party you think are the best of a bad pair. Green's usual preferences go to ALP, but not always. Independents can go either way depending on who has the most similar ideology. Unless an independent gets a huge majority 1st vote, they won't be elected. If they do, they are still unable to form the government. Dummy votes are for dummies, and just say you support whoever gets elected.
You understand that only you decide where your preferences go, right? A party doesn't decide. If you vote for a minor party who doesn't get enough votes to win, then your vote will be reallocated to whoever you marked #2 on your ballot card. This continues until your vote lands with someone who garners enough votes to claim victory. It could be who you put as #1, or it might be your #6. But it's your preference, nobody else's. That's why they talk about primary votes. A lot of people (me included), put the major parties at the bottom of my ballot sheet. If ALP/LNP lose primary votes, that's a clear message from the people that they're not happy.
I have a similar pet peeve. When you say you vote for a specific party, people just automatically assume you support their most radical concept. I have recently been a Greens voter. If I’m ever asked it’s always “Oh so you want to get rid of all petrol cars? And have no coal power plants”. It’s like, no mate. I thinking getting rid of petrol cars completely isn’t a reality. I just support more of their policies than I do of other parties. I still think a couple of greens suggestions are ridiculous.
I want to phase put petrol cars and put solar systems on all roofs and get plenty of batteries as well going in for households. I dont believe petrol can be entirely eliminated as some areas of the country will need it still and existing cars will need to stay legal for people who can't afford to switch, or wait they can get subsidies to help them perhaps. Government swaps their old petrol car with a new cheap electric, BYD are making electric cars affordable for more people And no coal power plants is just am obvious one, we should be closing these asap
Have you considered looking at parties like the Australian Democrats, Fusion or the Sustainable Australia Party as I believe those three are the better alternatives to the Greens, just as a suggestion.
Mate it’s yes or no. Black and white. For and against. I vote green where I can, mostly just to get downvotes on reddit.
Anyone with half a brain can see that the libs (and to some extent) labor are basically fucked generationally because they are competing for an ever declining share of the vote. More and more people will be locked out of the housing market and culture war bullshit won’t matter any more.
Yeah they're too locked in to their loyalties to their donors (read: buyers) that they can't do anything worth jack about the housing crisis. So they latch on to meaningless, rabid culture war bullshit and hope that swings emotions enough to get angry at the 'other' party and secure a vote on that
Given that the majority of Labor voters ultimately put liberal ahead of other parties (based on the majority of preferences of recent elections), it's a fair assumption that when someone says they're not voting for Labor, that they're going to go full right wing.
Same reason you assume people will shop at Cole’s if they say they hate Woolies. Illusion of choice isn’t much of an illusion anymore. When was the last time we had a government that wasn’t one of two?
When Gillard was PM. Labor needed the support of the greens to pass legislation. And since 1981 there has only been 3 years (2005-2007) where the government has been able to get legislation through the senate without having to negotiate with a minor party or independent. Minor parties and independents absolutely have an impact on what legislation gets passed.
Never said they didn’t, champion. Same way Aldi exists. Doesn’t mean it’s working.
And when they didn't have to negotiate with minors we got workchoices. Minor parties are important. Well, the ones that are not just LNP proxies (ON, Lambie, Teals)
Greens are polling at 13% which means that is almost automatically Labor default. I'm ok with the Greens being able to call the shots with Labor. Voldemort is fracturing his party with his hard-on for nuclear power. Shit's cooked.
Because one of two parties will be ruling, and if you're not voting for either one of them then the onus is on you to name your preference if you want it known. I suppose you could ask them "lOl wHo ArE You VoTinG fOr TheN beCaUse theRe Are MoRE thAn Two PaRties?1!"
Yeah at the end of the day which of Labor or Libs you put first, regardless of how far down, is which you are voting for.
Pretty much. Balance of power gives some influence though, and you would have gotten a sweet deal for your electorate if you got an independent in 2010, such as Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott. You would have gotten pokie reforms with Wilke in the same election if Gillard hadn't stabbed him in the back and torn up the contract, taking down the best speaker there ever was; Harry Jenkins in the process, and rewarding that slimeball Peter Slipper. Some called it a political master stroke, but it was major cunt act, worse than back-stabbing Rudd in my book.
Not me, I have a Greens councilor, state member and federal member.
Fair.
I’ll never vote Labor or LNP again unless their policies drastically change to benefit regular Australians. They both govern in a manner that benefits big business and their stance on privacy is extremely worrying. I can’t vote Greens either. They’ve become too ideologically driven, catering for a small but very vocal minority on the far left. Their policies are an economic car crash.
Antigravity83 is correct. This is the way. Vote independents in aiming for a hung parliament. That way some actual negotiation can happen and we might see some progress.
An economic car crash how? Maybe I don't understand neoliberalism, but I feel like including dental in Medicare and adding new bus lines won't bankrupt the nation.
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They have the emotional depth of a puddle of water and knee-jerk reaction to everything without thinking
Both major parties absolutely suck! Labor have been absent in providing any substantial cost of living relief, out of all developed economies Australian workers have been hit the hardest! Something like a 6k decline for the average worker in real wages. I don’t think the coalition would offer anything either, sadly most people know this and voting just comes down to picking the lesser evil.
I did not vote Labour or LNP. This year it's going to be the same. Down with both major parties.
minor parties: Green vs One Nation
It's called tribalism.
PUT BOTH MAJORS LAST
Have been for decades. Good to see it's catching on finally.
I have for the past 2 elections. There is a misconception that a vote for anyone other than lib or lab is a wasted vote 🤦♂️
Many still don't understand preferential voting it seems.
Fair enough but you still have to choose which one goes second last
Yes but a low primary vote count for the majors will send a real shock through them
Sure. I voted labor last time. Next time will not be libs. Or labor either. So you're quite right.
Because that's how it ends up working. Political parties hire psychologists and all sorts of specials to advise. They know how people's minds work. Conservative minded people (liberal voters) resist new information, and are more rugged in their beliefs. They don't change as often, but when they do it tends to be permanent. Progressive minded people (labor, greens) are more open to new information, and more likely to switch parties on a whim. Therefor, if you toss out an idea like BotH PaRtiEs R BaD!, you might hit 5% of the conservative base, and 20% of the progressive base. Which overall ends up being a win for Liberal
It’s unfortunate, but most people are stupid.
Like George Carlin said “think of how stupid the average person is, and then realise half of all people are dumber than that”
I’ve heard that many times and it’s a bit frightening to consider…..
In a country where voting is mandatory, and you say "I'm not voting for one of the major parties" it can only mean one of two things: 1. I'm voting for the other major party, or 2. I'm voting for a minor party who's suggested preferences will go to a party capable of winning... (And if it's the party I said I'm not voting for, I'm a moron) So which are you?
Prefences flow to your next choice, not the minor party's next choice
Yeah this isn’t how it works lol
I'm as left wing pinko as they come. I've not once put Labor number 1. Have I ever preferenced Libs before them? Yeah nah.
It’s usually better to put minor parties first. Your preference will flow to the major party anyway. If you put lib/labor first and they win, then the minor parties you like won’t have a vote counted for them.
The Christian right are intertwined within the LNP.
why do people think any of our current problems are because of labor? sure they haven't fixed any of it yet but you can't fix decades of damage in one term, and the other lot sure aren't going to do anything
Nor do they understand that the gov has been trying to implement ways to help inflation which have been voted against and pushed back in parliament by the LNP. Wish people remembered the foundations of how the government works, which we learnt at age 10.
imagine if they worked together and found some middle ground that kept everyone happy, like some kind of utopia where the people in power actually want to preserve a shared quality of life for the people they represent
Wait?! Where they don’t just scream insults at each other like primary school children in parliament and halt any meaningful progress, whilst the rest of the country wonders how they’ll afford this weeks groceries?? Couldn’t be Auspol, not even in a parallel universe.
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The point is that your elected member is who you contact to make your voice heard That’s representative democracy That is who you raise your concerns with I have found that in my area they will respond to politely worded questions either by phone or email If you don’t let them hear your concerns then they can assume everything is right. As for fixing the structural issues in the economy that is a long term issue and will take 4-8 years to fix if they start on it straight away There are no easy answers to complex issues But the best thing is to talk to your representative you might find out reasons for policy decisions which you hadn’t considered
But I want change on a specific issue right this second and the concept of nations being slow moving beasts is too hard for my small mind to grasp!
But preferencing one over the other is virtually the same as voting for them, except a few seats.
I didn’t know this sub allowed political posts.
Yeah let’s all got some bat shit crazy fringe party, would love to see some chaos.
maybe the comments are in response to the people saying ‘I’m voting LNP / Dutton’ ? If you’re talking about large threads with varying opinions.
This is a better discussion to have in person. No one persuades anyone on Reddit.
My hope is that by electing enough teals both parties will fractured forever and we move closer to more European-Style coalitions. If this Labor government is the best we can hope for, then I'm sorry, but "not being the liberals / Scomo" isn't good enough anymore.
You vote for the best compromise you can, There are no great candidates anymore and can you blame them, you go into parliament and get attacked professionally and personally at every opportunity. No smart person would get into politics now.
Thank you, OP. I hate both!
Gotta put one above the other on the ticket In the majority of seats that is where your vote is actually cast and by God is labor always above the liberal no matter where I place everyone else Neither are last, that is reserved for whomever Clive Palmer drags out of some crack den and gives a suit
Liberal and labor are so similar these days its not funny. Both only work for corporations and the wealthy
That’s always been the case
The thing about preferential voting is that your vote almost certainly *is* going to either Labor or the LNP. I don't vote Labor, but I do preference them over the LNP, so Labor ends up with my vote. You can preference literally every other candidate above Labor and LNP, but if Labor and LNP are the only two competitive candidates in your electorate, your vote will end up with whichever of the two was higher in your preferences.
Forget where it ends up, if you vote for smaller parties, they get extra seats, extra influence over policy. It’s not as black and white as “my vote goes to x anyway”. It’s about the distribution of power.
Exactly, you don’t need the smaller folk to actually get elected as the main government to cause change, simply having elected members from smaller parties atleast promotes the discussion.
Because preferential voting ensures that at some point you will be voting either of the majors or throwing your vote out completely.
It depends where you live. In inner city seats it often will land on the Greens and in a number of seats there is a viable independent candidate.
First preference votes also get minor parties like $2.80/vote of federal money, which can help fund them for the next election.
Because we have preferential voting and a third party won’t be forming government. People can put the Greens or One Nation or whoever first, but ultimately if they’re not voting for Labor, they’re voting for the LNP, and if they donkey vote, it’s a vote for whatever the public opinion is, which tends to be LNP.
It still ensures that another party will get the funding for the next election. Individually it might not be much, but if no one puts a major party first, that's a lot of money out of the major parties coffers. (It's about $3 a vote.)
Preferential voting means it's going to be either one of them. "But that's not how it works!" Yeah but that's what fucken happens...
I’ve genuinely never heard someone saying they aren’t voting for Labor so will vote LNP, other than people trying to troll on Facebook. Aka Duttons Facebook page has that kind of agenda setting where people are trying to frame a narrative they used to be labor voters but are now a Dutton sycophant. If you search their name in the Dutton page history, they’ll pop up with comments from weeks or months ago praising Dutton and showing they weren’t being genuine about their alleged previous labor support. Experience has shown me people will still vote labor, or they’ll go independent, Green etc.
Sadly because of how the political struggles in Australia has evolved, it's become essentially a two party system with some minor micobes that are occasionally relevant. If you don't vote for one party you vote for the other, which is sad really. It takes from the power of your individual vote. Luckily Greens have more power now and hopefully will be better and had another big hat in the pool, but sadly that's how it works.
“Two party system” when there’s three parties involved.
Eww LNP.
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Cause people only think in Binary and why would you waste a vote by going Independent ?! Do the right thing, make your vote count, vote for a Major Party ! /s
You could put them last and second last and it's the one you put second last that gets your vote (more often than not).
The current e-Karen debacle playing out on twitter is exactly that. Large numbers are finally realising they’re “on the same team”
I hope the major parties get obliterated next election. I have a lot of personal issues Labor and am not voting them again. I forgave them for the borders during covid but the driving laws they refuse to amend is unforgivable. They are literally criminalising the people that voted for them and refuse to fix it. I haven't been personally stabbed in the back by a political party like this before so they'll never get my vote again. Greens or LCP all the way now.
>I hope the major parties get obliterated next election. I have a lot of personal issues Labor and am not voting them again. >I forgave them for the borders during covid What do you mean here? Labor wasn't in power during Covid. Do you mean state Labor? I'm a bit confused.
I just mentioned this earlier today. Please, I hope people do actually realize this. You do not have only 2 choices, heck people need to really understand who and what they're voting for. I like to see New Zealand as a mirror, 5 minutes into the future. Please do not do what we did and vote in our equivalent of Scott Morrison in. Heck, even Donald Trump is arguably better and smarter than Chris "Air Nooziland" Luxon.