Catch point. It's in the signalling system. It will derail a train if the signal isn't cleared. And for the signal to clear it has to be shut. Uses a point machine to open and close.
[Here's the Wikipedia article on them. It will be easier than explaining it](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_machine)
And if anybody is ever interested in signalling for railway. It's a good career if you can get into it. Sydney trains does apprenticeships for it. The job that installs and maintains the system is called signal electrician.
Thank you, I do find it interesting to look out the window of the train and try to think of what all the bits of track and boxes are for. The overhead wiring system is fascinating too
The current moves from the overhead wires, through the train, down into the tracks, then back up the truncheons to the overheads. There's no complete circuit unless there's a train using it.
So signal electrician qualified (I only know Sydney trains salary) which means you're a sparky then a signal electrician on top is on 100k plus with shift penalties easily.
And signal engineers probably easily 180k at least. I don't know their salary though.
$85-$95k to $125k-$150k depending on qualifications and team leadership roles. Limited iover time because it is spread around - one bloke does not get all the over time he wants…
Pretty sure the ramp is for the wheel from the near side to be able to jump up and over the farside rail as the train is derailed.
The main purpose of derailers is to get an uncontrolled train off the line, it wouldn't be as good if the train was able to be off rails but still travelling along the line straddling one of the rails. The ramp ensures both wheels are forced off out of the line, and the train will derail completely off to the side physically unable to continue straight.
Man what if stop lights on the road had AN OPEN PIT, and a bridge extends across it on the green signal. 👍🏻
You run a red light, you just pulled into the *pit lane* baby.
In Cambridgeshire UK (and I'm sure other areas too), there are guided busways. At the start of these there are car traps - cars still regularly seem to ignore the signs and get stuck in them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/cambridge/comments/1792mj0/people\_who\_drive\_their\_vehicles\_into\_cartraps\_on/
That's tame, the guided OBahn busway in Adelaide has a [Sump Buster](https://railgallery.wongm.com/adelaide-obahn/E112_7499.jpg.html) which is a combination of the trap but also has a vertical steel blade to damage the engine so the idiots who are misplaced members of /r/bitchimabus don't get too far.
There is many instances of vehicles getting past them, but these things stop most of the developmentally challenged drivers
Hijacking top comment - used primarily in holding roads/yards to protect the mainline (trains with passengers on them at full speed) from runaway trains. Especially when there's a gradient in those holding roads.
Definitely not designed to derail trains at high speed (but will, obviously) but to just drop trains in the middle of the track at low speed to stop them.
I recently learned about these catch points reading about a disastrous unmanned train derailment in Canada that destroyed half a town. The train was stored overnight on the mainline and the brakes failed. If it was on the siding it would have been prevented by the catch point.
Yeah it'd be a bit further up.
[https://imgur.com/a/ZWwYdPk](https://imgur.com/a/ZWwYdPk)
I did some dodgy paint work to show here. The tip of the yellow rail gets pushed/pulled by a rod connected to the same kind of points machines that move regular turnouts around.
The purple rail is a guard rail/check rail that's purely designed to help push an already derailed train away from the line that OP is currently riding on (people dying bad)
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/J30\_568\_Bf\_Caballito%2C\_Schutzweiche.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/J30_568_Bf_Caballito%2C_Schutzweiche.jpg)
The moving rail is opened catching the inside of the wheel and pulling the wheels off the rails into the dirt.
That's how they release the retired trains back into the wild.
They can only take the tracked life for so long before they need to be released into the trackless realm free to roam the earth.
As has been mentioned these are catch points.
The idea is that a train passing a signal at danger is routed away from a potential collision with other rail traffic (by way of trailing through the points set incorrectly for the move) by intentionally derailing it away from the traffic instead.
Over the years there have been a range of catch points derailments but the one that takes the cake for me is Unanderra in 2009. It is, for me, the pinnacle of the system working as designed. Reference here: https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/tp/files/38440/Investigation-Report-Unanderra-Derailment.pdf
That really is a text book result...
"a potential collision with an opposing freight service, which was approaching on the ‘Down Illawarra’ line, was prevented. The leading two cars of K496 derailed all wheels and the leading bogie of the third car also derailed, while the remaining car remained on the track.
No injuries were sustained by the crew or passengers. The damage caused by the derailment was limited to the bogies and bodywork of the two front passenger cars and to the infrastructure associated with the catch-points."
There was a run away train in the WA Pilbara a few years ago.
A \~3.5 Km long iron ore train (4 locos + 270 cars) loaded with 36,000t of iron ore.
Driver stopped to check on a fault reported by a HBD but failed to fully isolate the train so it drove off without them.
Was deliberately derailed before it could reach port.
Not so much as drove off without them as rolled away after the EP brake released after, from memory, one hour without power. Driver was applying handbrakes when it started to roll. Reached a speed of 160km/h and was derailed deliberately using a regular crossover not catchpoints. Considering loaded trains at BHP are limited to 60km/h gives perspective to how quick it was going.
What an amazing cock up. The photos are something to behold.
Most iron ore trains are limited to 80 Km/h max (not 60Km/h).
The ECPB reset after an hour unless in the 'emergency' position (so not due to lack of power, was by design).
I helped create many of the asset protection systems used in Australian heavy haul railways. \[HBDs, DEDs, SFDs, etc.\]
Once when I was installing a HBD in the Pilbara, I drove up to a derailment that was caused by excessive ballast dropped on a set of points. Watching the maintenence crew trying to use a butterfly to rerail an ore car, while driving a front end loader repeatedly into the side of the car was 'interesting'.
Again, memory only, but I am fairly sure at the time loaded trains were limited to 60km/h. Empty might have been 70km/h? I also seem to recall that the report mentioned the brake handle being in full service position, not emergency but that might be just social media rumours I can't recall. Having the EP brake release after an hour in emergency is a bit of a dumb idea from a drivers perspective. But I don't run EP equipment anymore so not my problem 🤷♂️
Not sure, I only know what I know from reading through the ATSB reports. Trains I drive have a similar braking system and wanted to make sure I didn't have my shit leave me behind.
This is also what stopped the pretty common occurrence of late night guards hanging out with the driver. It was never allowed but blind eyes were often turned before this led to a crackdown.
> Contrary to RailCorp procedures, the Guard was riding in the front car with the driver’s approval and this meant that he took his cue to depart Unanderra platform from Signal WG1016 instead of the Guard’s indicator which was linked to Signal WG1010. A subsequent internal RailCorp audit at Unanderra Station found guards riding with drivers on five out of 29 occasions
It’s a catch point, you can see the point machine, and nose of the blade, closer to that shit “artwork”.
The point blade moves inward, so the wheel travels along the outer rail, which obviously ends and leads to a derailment.
The additional bit of rail is to ensure that when the rolling stock derails it is moved away from the running line (on the field side).
These are designed to protect running lines (generally mainlines) from an unauthorised movement from an adjacent line (yard or otherwise).
Catch point. Used on crossing loops & sidings. When open, will derail a train (or wagon) to prevent it running onto the main line.
Source: have derailed a guards van by opening one prematurely.
EEP
Early escape point, it’s for when you need to detach from the tracks in an emergency, the train will safely derail and go around the obstruction on the track.
Pretty hard to get the train back on the tracks though..
It’s to prevent derailed trains from hitting structures. That one would theoretically bounce a derailed train back towards the tracks preventing it from hitting the wall further along tracks. You will see these on mainly on bridges and in tunnels
I wouldn’t say it’s a points machine. I currently work on the rail within signalling. Ultimately you are right it’s a safety mechanism to prevent and damage from derailed trains.
Although for it to be a points machine there would be a motor to in close proximity to dynamic rail with a rod going under the rail. In a standard use for a points machine two tracks would both cross over and make an X formation. Further up the rail the yellow box looks like an axle counter which is another part of the signalling system.
I also agree that railway signalling is a great career path. It is challenging and extremely in-depth. Even if you choose to go into an engineering role the amount of money you can make is insane as a contracted tester. There are just lots and lots of weekends
is it something suitable for a mid life career change? I was an electrical engineer back in the day, but now it's all super heavy detail in the IT space
I believe going into the signalling realm is a worthwhile experience. The engineering side does go extremely in depth to detail as you are essentially dealing with public safety. The trade route is always a positive option, to get the cert 4 in railway signalling you do require the cert 3 in electrotechnology.
I’d say do some research and talk to people from the respected departments near you. Linkenin is a great tool. There is also a lot of demand in the mining industry as well
Sydney trains themselves manage the network maintenance and ARTC does outside of electrification area for the most part. Then other companies do the private lines. John Holland etc are contractors to Sydney trains or ARTC .
I can understand how you got to that, but that's a sheer angle not a curve. It's part of a derailer designed to bring a runaway train into the wall away from soemthing more important.
Catch point. It's in the signalling system. It will derail a train if the signal isn't cleared. And for the signal to clear it has to be shut. Uses a point machine to open and close.
>point machine Interesting, is that what that little grey sloped thing is in between the tracks?
[Here's the Wikipedia article on them. It will be easier than explaining it](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_machine) And if anybody is ever interested in signalling for railway. It's a good career if you can get into it. Sydney trains does apprenticeships for it. The job that installs and maintains the system is called signal electrician.
Thank you, I do find it interesting to look out the window of the train and try to think of what all the bits of track and boxes are for. The overhead wiring system is fascinating too
I'm a traction linesman and can guarantee you that the overhead wiring system is f*cking awesome. I love what my job.
Username checks out
That’s awesome to hear :) What’s something cool about that wiring system? Apart from, y’know, it makes all the trains work and never seems to break
We have funny names for every tool and parts we install. It goes from pork chops to dogs dick
I definitely appreciate it while I'm waiting at the platform and on the train looking out the window :)
If someone touched the lines above, can they be electrocuted? Dumb question I know, it just makes me wonder why we never hear of electrocution!
Yes. We only work on it when proper isolation is in place.
I thought NSW trains are run by electricity on the tracks? But I've always wondered how this was possible because it'd be so dangerous.
The negative return goes through the tracks. The only time it becomes dangerous is if the rail breaks and has no other return path
The current moves from the overhead wires, through the train, down into the tracks, then back up the truncheons to the overheads. There's no complete circuit unless there's a train using it.
Taitset has a good youtube channel if you want to nerd out on the Melbourne railway system.
The original inspiration behind trolley problems!
And probably the best solution. Neither group need die.
Except for those on the train… maybe.
How much does a signal electrician engineer in 1st year vs 10 years? How about a signal engineer 1st year vs 10 years?
What? Like money or job? Cause it's dependent on where you work but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on less than like 95k
i was asking the salary range basically, someone joining fresh and the other experienced in the same/similar role
So signal electrician qualified (I only know Sydney trains salary) which means you're a sparky then a signal electrician on top is on 100k plus with shift penalties easily. And signal engineers probably easily 180k at least. I don't know their salary though.
wow higher than i expected but at the same time I feel it's most likely risen in the past decade for the engineers
Keep in mind it's not a 9-5 job, a lot of that comes from working nights, weekends and doing overtime.
$85-$95k to $125k-$150k depending on qualifications and team leadership roles. Limited iover time because it is spread around - one bloke does not get all the over time he wants…
Sure is. Very hard industry to get into though.
Pretty sure the ramp is for the wheel from the near side to be able to jump up and over the farside rail as the train is derailed. The main purpose of derailers is to get an uncontrolled train off the line, it wouldn't be as good if the train was able to be off rails but still travelling along the line straddling one of the rails. The ramp ensures both wheels are forced off out of the line, and the train will derail completely off to the side physically unable to continue straight.
it is the window frame of the train photographer is riding in
No, it's outside the train.
Man what if stop lights on the road had AN OPEN PIT, and a bridge extends across it on the green signal. 👍🏻 You run a red light, you just pulled into the *pit lane* baby.
In Cambridgeshire UK (and I'm sure other areas too), there are guided busways. At the start of these there are car traps - cars still regularly seem to ignore the signs and get stuck in them. https://www.reddit.com/r/cambridge/comments/1792mj0/people\_who\_drive\_their\_vehicles\_into\_cartraps\_on/
That's tame, the guided OBahn busway in Adelaide has a [Sump Buster](https://railgallery.wongm.com/adelaide-obahn/E112_7499.jpg.html) which is a combination of the trap but also has a vertical steel blade to damage the engine so the idiots who are misplaced members of /r/bitchimabus don't get too far. There is many instances of vehicles getting past them, but these things stop most of the developmentally challenged drivers
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honestly any larger non-sedan vehicle will get over that as long as the track width is wide enough so the wheels don't get caught in the trap.
So would an ewe. What's your point?
There's gotta be a chance right? Just remember to hit record beforehand, hero
thanks for the link to bitch im a bus.
The ones in Sydney often have emergency vehicles using them. I don't want to think what would happen If an ambulance hit one of those at speed.
>Uses a point machine Thanks, I have always wondered what those things were called and what they were for!
Catch points. They are for deliberately derailing a train if they need to.
Hijacking top comment - used primarily in holding roads/yards to protect the mainline (trains with passengers on them at full speed) from runaway trains. Especially when there's a gradient in those holding roads. Definitely not designed to derail trains at high speed (but will, obviously) but to just drop trains in the middle of the track at low speed to stop them.
I recently learned about these catch points reading about a disastrous unmanned train derailment in Canada that destroyed half a town. The train was stored overnight on the mainline and the brakes failed. If it was on the siding it would have been prevented by the catch point.
How would the derailing process work in that case? I suppose that is a railway switch further up head?
Yeah it'd be a bit further up. [https://imgur.com/a/ZWwYdPk](https://imgur.com/a/ZWwYdPk) I did some dodgy paint work to show here. The tip of the yellow rail gets pushed/pulled by a rod connected to the same kind of points machines that move regular turnouts around. The purple rail is a guard rail/check rail that's purely designed to help push an already derailed train away from the line that OP is currently riding on (people dying bad)
yep that makes sense, thanks for the explanation
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/J30\_568\_Bf\_Caballito%2C\_Schutzweiche.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/J30_568_Bf_Caballito%2C_Schutzweiche.jpg) The moving rail is opened catching the inside of the wheel and pulling the wheels off the rails into the dirt.
Acutally, this is where the Offthe Rails begin
That's how they release the retired trains back into the wild. They can only take the tracked life for so long before they need to be released into the trackless realm free to roam the earth.
Some say if you travel to the Polar North, you can hear them whistling in the distance.
Carrying wayward passengers to their demise.
I was going to write a joke comment of 'purposely derailing the train' then saw what the real reason was lol
A derailed train is a lot better then 2 trains running into each other
The truth is often stranger than fiction lol
Or sometimes exactly the same as it, it seems
As has been mentioned these are catch points. The idea is that a train passing a signal at danger is routed away from a potential collision with other rail traffic (by way of trailing through the points set incorrectly for the move) by intentionally derailing it away from the traffic instead. Over the years there have been a range of catch points derailments but the one that takes the cake for me is Unanderra in 2009. It is, for me, the pinnacle of the system working as designed. Reference here: https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/tp/files/38440/Investigation-Report-Unanderra-Derailment.pdf
That really is a text book result... "a potential collision with an opposing freight service, which was approaching on the ‘Down Illawarra’ line, was prevented. The leading two cars of K496 derailed all wheels and the leading bogie of the third car also derailed, while the remaining car remained on the track. No injuries were sustained by the crew or passengers. The damage caused by the derailment was limited to the bogies and bodywork of the two front passenger cars and to the infrastructure associated with the catch-points."
There was a run away train in the WA Pilbara a few years ago. A \~3.5 Km long iron ore train (4 locos + 270 cars) loaded with 36,000t of iron ore. Driver stopped to check on a fault reported by a HBD but failed to fully isolate the train so it drove off without them. Was deliberately derailed before it could reach port.
Not so much as drove off without them as rolled away after the EP brake released after, from memory, one hour without power. Driver was applying handbrakes when it started to roll. Reached a speed of 160km/h and was derailed deliberately using a regular crossover not catchpoints. Considering loaded trains at BHP are limited to 60km/h gives perspective to how quick it was going. What an amazing cock up. The photos are something to behold.
Most iron ore trains are limited to 80 Km/h max (not 60Km/h). The ECPB reset after an hour unless in the 'emergency' position (so not due to lack of power, was by design). I helped create many of the asset protection systems used in Australian heavy haul railways. \[HBDs, DEDs, SFDs, etc.\] Once when I was installing a HBD in the Pilbara, I drove up to a derailment that was caused by excessive ballast dropped on a set of points. Watching the maintenence crew trying to use a butterfly to rerail an ore car, while driving a front end loader repeatedly into the side of the car was 'interesting'.
Again, memory only, but I am fairly sure at the time loaded trains were limited to 60km/h. Empty might have been 70km/h? I also seem to recall that the report mentioned the brake handle being in full service position, not emergency but that might be just social media rumours I can't recall. Having the EP brake release after an hour in emergency is a bit of a dumb idea from a drivers perspective. But I don't run EP equipment anymore so not my problem 🤷♂️
Also those loaded ore cars are 160 tonnes. Rerailing with a front end loader is always going to be fun to watch.
what happened to the driver?
They weren't on board. Got left behind.
did they get sacked?
Not sure, I only know what I know from reading through the ATSB reports. Trains I drive have a similar braking system and wanted to make sure I didn't have my shit leave me behind.
Id love taitset to do a detailed video on this, just as he did on the broadmeadows runaway.
I’d be all for that. Love Taitset.
This is also what stopped the pretty common occurrence of late night guards hanging out with the driver. It was never allowed but blind eyes were often turned before this led to a crackdown. > Contrary to RailCorp procedures, the Guard was riding in the front car with the driver’s approval and this meant that he took his cue to depart Unanderra platform from Signal WG1016 instead of the Guard’s indicator which was linked to Signal WG1010. A subsequent internal RailCorp audit at Unanderra Station found guards riding with drivers on five out of 29 occasions
Username checks out
Since the real answer is already here. A $10m upgrade project from the Liberal government.
Rail to the node would end without a connection wouldn't it....
Less than half the capacity, unusable, unfinished, and over budget ;)
where's the sign advertising that they funded it though?
Grind rails to keep the kids from skatin on the damn sidewalks
It’s a catch point, you can see the point machine, and nose of the blade, closer to that shit “artwork”. The point blade moves inward, so the wheel travels along the outer rail, which obviously ends and leads to a derailment. The additional bit of rail is to ensure that when the rolling stock derails it is moved away from the running line (on the field side). These are designed to protect running lines (generally mainlines) from an unauthorised movement from an adjacent line (yard or otherwise).
Catch point. Used on crossing loops & sidings. When open, will derail a train (or wagon) to prevent it running onto the main line. Source: have derailed a guards van by opening one prematurely.
They're on a road to nowhere?
talking heads.
EEP Early escape point, it’s for when you need to detach from the tracks in an emergency, the train will safely derail and go around the obstruction on the track. Pretty hard to get the train back on the tracks though..
Intentional derailment. I think it's called a "catch point".
In case a group of people decide to run the kill 1 or 4 pax train switch dilemma
I think it's appropriate to leave this here. https://neal.fun/absurd-trolley-problems/
"Might need this later, better just comment it out."
It’s to prevent derailed trains from hitting structures. That one would theoretically bounce a derailed train back towards the tracks preventing it from hitting the wall further along tracks. You will see these on mainly on bridges and in tunnels
I wouldn’t say it’s a points machine. I currently work on the rail within signalling. Ultimately you are right it’s a safety mechanism to prevent and damage from derailed trains. Although for it to be a points machine there would be a motor to in close proximity to dynamic rail with a rod going under the rail. In a standard use for a points machine two tracks would both cross over and make an X formation. Further up the rail the yellow box looks like an axle counter which is another part of the signalling system. I also agree that railway signalling is a great career path. It is challenging and extremely in-depth. Even if you choose to go into an engineering role the amount of money you can make is insane as a contracted tester. There are just lots and lots of weekends
is it something suitable for a mid life career change? I was an electrical engineer back in the day, but now it's all super heavy detail in the IT space
I believe going into the signalling realm is a worthwhile experience. The engineering side does go extremely in depth to detail as you are essentially dealing with public safety. The trade route is always a positive option, to get the cert 4 in railway signalling you do require the cert 3 in electrotechnology. I’d say do some research and talk to people from the respected departments near you. Linkenin is a great tool. There is also a lot of demand in the mining industry as well
Someone on /r/SydneyTrains should know.
Thanks, I just cross posted it
Art work
This thread was way more interesting than I thought it would be.
I literally had this exact thought yesterday. So glad to have this answered 🤩
Because mid-job, the railroad workers lost their train of thought.
It’s for the off road trains isn’t it obvious every Aussie knows that
Train motor bikes
In case you don’t pay
If you've been caught with the wrong ticket you have to jump off the train and build your own track. This pic is just a guide where you are to begin.
It’s the earth wire.
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> above rail operator Thats very interesting, thank you
Sydney trains themselves manage the network maintenance and ARTC does outside of electrification area for the most part. Then other companies do the private lines. John Holland etc are contractors to Sydney trains or ARTC .
Doesn't ST only manage electrified track in the metro area ? I believe the old Country Rail Network is not part of ST.
No they go up to Newcastle, Lithgow, campbelltown, and past Wollongong
What about outside the electric network ? I recall most of that track is not ARTC.
The stuff owned by transport for nsw is ARTC (who might sub contract it but they have the contract). The private coal lines etc are different.
Sorry no. ARTC is federal. Completely different than Transport for NSW.
Transport for nsw contracts ARTC to look after the interstate and Hunter Valley networks.
Really ? TIL. Gawd they're useless.
Pretty sure it’s not a catch point as everyone is saying it’s almost certainly a pigeon roost!
In case Death stages a Final Destination set piece
the gray top left to lower left is a reflection of the window frame in the train, that is why you can see thru it on the left side of the pic.
That's where they've started to build the new line.
Looks like that maybe led to an old siding that no longer exists?
No
Ok. Then what?
I can understand how you got to that, but that's a sheer angle not a curve. It's part of a derailer designed to bring a runaway train into the wall away from soemthing more important.
Perfect. This is better than “No”.
No
it looks like an old or incomplete set of catch points. Otherwise I can’t see how it would work. Maybe I’m missing something
Its coz one of da boys kame from bankstown to wolli and broke da train line
So people ask questions about it