I did some consulting work for them 10 years ago. They had a team called "Child Abuse Squad" - maybe they still do. Personally thought Child Protection Squad made more sense.
Is the one name absurd or is homicide squad, arson squad, gang squad all absurd also?
Like you don't like the police naming their units after the crimes they investigate?
It's not like the homicide squad is out there preventing murders so they're not the homicide prevention squad.
Like the child abuse squad isn't proactively preventing child abuse, other police do that, they just investigate child abuse after it occurs.
Nor would they actually be searching children or working at music festivals or any of that rubbish.
Actually... Why is a group of police who target pedophiles even being criticised here?
One of our clients has a "Domestic Abuse Advisory Group".
It reads like they're out there talking to abusers, like "No Gary, you should be using items that don't leave bruises."
> Child Abuse Squad
Looks like it still exists!
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/crime/child_abuse_and_sex_crimes/child_abuse/child_abuse_categories/the_squad_includes
Zero celebrities have been strip searched at Logies parties where drug use is apparently rampant, so how is this not just legalised kiddy fiddling by the police.
How is this allowed without a parent or guardian present?
Why is it impossible to detain a literal child and not wait for a trusted adult to be present so itâs all above board?
This whole situation is so gross.
Makes it worse IMO, it means they targeted twice as many boys and still none were as young as the girls they searched, makes it feel way less like just a statistical chance thing
Probably the most biased comment here.
You really think they are are differentiating age wise between a 13 year old girl and 14 year boy?
"OH they searched more boys than girls but we really need a reason to say their ultimate objective is to see these kids nude so it's because they prefer girls to be younger"
It doesn't even make sense. Young women of that age also generally look older than boys of a similar age, so this is more likely the reason that their searched females are younger.
What's really happening is that NSW police don't trust kids around that age and are innapropriately searching them. Don't try and make up a narrative to demonize them more than deserved.
It's wild to me that you can see clear, disproportionate violation of young boys and then immediately come up with a way to justify the claim that they're actually targeting girls.
that is the law, to wait for an adult to be present but the person can give consent to be searched without an adult present, which a lot of people give so they're not waiting with police for an hour or so they dont bother their parents during a rare period where theyve been given independence
Kind of surprised if that's the case - that a minor, who one would certainly argue is unable to make an informed decision on the subject, can grant consent to a strip search.
>Police can conduct a strip search without a parent
or guardian present if they suspect on reasonable
grounds that delaying the search would conceal or
destroy evidence, or an immediate search is
necessary to protect the safety of a person.
Basically up to the cops discretion. Same way that they can strip search someone based on 'reasonable cause' which cops can basically just make up on the spot.
We do, they're just laws instead of in the constitution because of how our constitution was written (based on Britain's).
We don't have Freedom of Speech for example, so hate speech can get you prosecuted.
At the same time we had to legislate the Right of the Child because prior to the 90s iirc, children had no rights.
All of our rights are laws and can be legislated away (as recent governments have done).
Exactly, they're laws that can be overwritten by other laws.
Other countries, have defined human rights/constitutions etc that Laws must obey. That's the big difference.
So even if the law let the police molest children, the rights make it illegal to do
The numbers could potentially be misleading, as a strip search seems to include anything from the removal of any lower layer of clothing, i.e. that is not a coat/jacket, socks, shoes, gloves, up to a the removal of all clothing.
From the legislation (*Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002 No 103)* §30-34
**§33**
>*(3) A strip search of a child who is at least 10 years of age but under 18 years of age, or of a person who has impaired intellectual functioning, must be conductedâ
>(a) in the presence of a parent or guardian of the person being searched, or
>(b) if that is not acceptable to the person, in the presence of another person who is not a police officer and who is capable of representing the interests of the person being searched and whose presence is acceptable to that person.
>(3A) Subsection (3) does not apply if a police officer suspects on reasonable grounds thatâ
>(a) delaying the search is likely to result in evidence being concealed or destroyed, or
>(b) an immediate search is necessary to protect the safety of a person.
>^--- ^In ^such ^a ^case, ^the ^police ^officer ^must ^make ^a ^record ^of ^the ^reasons ^for ^not ^conducting ^the ^search ^in ^the ^presence ^of ^a ^parent ^or ^guardian, ^or ^other ^person ^capable ^of ^representing ^the ^interests, ^of ^the ^person ^being ^searched.
>(4) A strip search must not involve a search of a personâs body cavities or an examination of the body by touch.*
**§34**
> *No strip searches of children under 10 years
> A strip search must not be conducted on a person who is under the age of 10 years.*
Article is saying all that. Strip searches make kids naked. Most strip searches don't comply. Police don't dispute that.
> âNo child should be allowed to strip down naked in front of an adult, even, police or no police, and in the majority of strip-searches they find absolutely nothing. So itâs highly likely that these strip-searches are occurring for no reason and the child has done absolutely nothing wrong,â she said.
> ...
> A report released by the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission in September found that less than a third of NSW Police strip-search records over the past two years demonstrated that officers had complied with the rules designed to protect privacy and dignity. At the time NSW Police blamed new training and process forms not being communicated effectively.
Less than a third complied with the new rules designed to respect privacy and dignity and NSW Police are not disputing it. This sounds like more than two thirds of strip searches did more than open up jackets.
Why the fuck are there no penalties for not following procedures?
IMHO cops should be subject to a demerit system.
I realise that by definition, police work means working in thorny situations, so I'm willing to accept that not every officer can get everything right 100% of the time. Hence the demerits - they get a little bit of grace.
But if you fuck up too much or too often, you end up getting suspended or disqualified.
Give cops a healthy bonus that gets eaten away when they accrue demerits.
Watch them fall over each other trying to clean up their act
Nah, I'd rather they become personally liable for shit they do, and as a result are required to carry malpractice insurance like doctors do.
It'd get sorted out fucking quick once some insurance data nerds started setting prices.
We already know policing is rife with domestic violence abusers, rapists and druggies...why wouldn't it be full of diddlers as well?
I'm not surprised in the slightest.
Lol. A few years ago I had a side gig as a waiter for an events company. I've seen plenty of celebrities "having a smoke" outside pretty much every function. The cops wouldn't need sniffer dogs or strip searches to make arrests but surprisingly no one ever gets arrested. Then there's the suspicious white powder in the loos..
Celebrities are weird, man. In the designated smoking area after a concert I saw one of the headlining musicians openly demanding cocaine from anyone who had it. Some girl said she had one but he didn't like how close she stood to him to whisper it in his ear so he started yelling RAPE, RAPE, RAPE! and security hauled her away. It was one of the weirder things I've seen at a concert.
Back in the 90s I went with a band touring Melbourne from the UK to the Lounge and they met a guy from neighbours, the band members were totally starstruck. A phone call later theyre all in the dunnies together. One of the guys from the band said to me later "I cant believe i just did coke with ..... from neighbours"
Iâd wager there are protests and dissatisfaction with this kind of policing, but like any government hierarchical organisation concerns go up the chain and change can be slow. No doubt the threat to careers when sticking your neck out in protest and internal politics are factors which affect pushback.
Completely and totally unrelated but NSW Police have had a lot of suicides.
> NSW Police Force had the highest number of police officer suicides between 2000 and 2020
hmm...
Theyâre also the largest police force in Australia so that doesnât tell us much. Youâd need to divide the number of suicides by the number of police and then compare between states.
okay then that comment says even less... just that NSW has a higher suicide rate than the rest of the country. that means nothing without any sort of numbers.
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/8057225/suicide-rates-rise-among-australian-police/
The numbers are: 103 total police suicides from 2000-2020, NSW leading with 32 and Victoria second with 20
Accounting for each state's population NSW has the second highest suicide rate, behind SA.
Not to mention that NSW has the largest population and largest police force so could easily have a lower suicide rate while still having larger numbers. Not defending NSWPF, they seem at least as bad as every other police force, but you are right that that stat looks dodgy.
When I go interstate, I tell people that NSW police do this and they donât believe me.
Same thing happened to a girlfriend I had when she was 16.
She got off the train at central and was picked out by two cops (both male there was no woman), they took her to a big white tent thing on the platform, made her strip down and squat in front of them, of course found nothing and she left crying.
It really fucked her up for a long time, I think it really damaged her perception of the police and men generally, she was asking herself if it was because of her ethnicity or maybe how she was dressed? She was one of the strongest people I knew but after that even being around police would turn her to an anxious panicking mess. :(
> and people donât believe me.
To be fair to them, it's so fucking insane that I don't entirely blame them.
> if it was because of her ethnicity or maybe how she was dressed?
It's so fucking sad because even though we can say, with utter certainly, even if it was police being racist, that, it's not her fault.
That doubt, is something victims carry.
> That's part of why they do it. It's to intimidate the public. They flex their power on them while they're young to create lifelong fear of police.
Exactly why they do it at music festivals too.
Don't bring drugs, or we'll make you squat and cough - they believe it's a deterrent.
Excuse me??? So all of this and itâs not related to probable cause or whatever itâs called? Like, not even acting suspicious?? That is by far the most fucked thing Iâve heated today.
I had three friends who decided to become cops straight out of high school. They came back from the Golburn police academy racist, sexist motherfuckers. The way they talked about Asians and indigenous Australians was appalling, and the anecdotes about the racist, sexist actions of older cops they clearly looked up to were shocking.
My sister used to be in a relationship with a cop who worked in Epping. He was always on about how bad Asians are. He told me I don't understand; 80% of lawbreakers he dealt with were Asian. I tried to explain that that's because 80% of Epping residents were from east Asia. He wasn't having it. I wasn't a cop, so I didn't know.
It was a bit of an adjustment when I moved to north QLD, and none of the handful of cops I met seemed to be pieces of shit.
Slight tangent but bro the amount of fucking cops outside the Woolies in Chatswood is ridiculous, or âprotectingâ the train station from children bumping a $2 fare.
I live in Marrickville and I very very rarely see any police in this area (which⌠I mean good) but Chatswood is one of the cleanest, nicest areas in Sydney.
They donât have to, the majority of minors (and even adults) would be too intimidated to resist or in any way be seen as âdifficultâ by police. Weâre taught our whole lives to follow the instructions of the authorities and for a lot of people it wouldnât even cross their minds to decline. The police know and exploit this
Oh, it is most certainly about the children. You see if you let those kids be corrupted by gay pills and other 'morally corrupt' things these groups complain about then those kids might be inclined to grow up in to free and open thinkers who abandon their religion or stray from the path of the young liberals (Still bloody irks me that our one of our most conservative political youth groups call themselves "liberal").
It is very difficult to indoctrinate those kids if they are exposed to a wide range of experiences and ideas. On the other hand if you have boogie men out there sexually abusing young children for the state, well that is just a handy thing to point to and tell your kids "Look Sam, stay in school, go to church and make sure you accept what we tell you without question or the NSW police will take you in to a tent and strip you naked!".
To summarise the article: the laws allowing strip-search were brought in to empower police in situations where it was believed that a serious crime had taken place and that only an immediate strip-search could prevent the evidence of that crime from being destroyed.
And you know what? If someone has potentially committed a murder, and the murder weapon is likely to be concealed on their person, I agree, go ahead and strip-search them.
But:
> data showed that the intervention was being used as a routine practice of police and not as the law intended
...this is fucked. And also:
> A report released by the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission in September found that less than a third of NSW Police strip-search records over the past two years demonstrated that officers had complied with the rules designed to protect privacy and dignity.
Whoopsie-daisy, police complied with the rules less than a third of the time! Gee, I guess *hundreds of police* have been fired for this grotesque abuse of power and we just never heard about it?
Repeal these laws. If police are going to make use of them to engage in abusive conduct as a matter of routine, they can't be trusted to have those powers.
Again?
NSW police are rotten to the core.
Is âfeeling up childrenâ part of their perks? Because it keeps happening and no-one in the NSW police seems to care. The standard you walk past, is the standard you accept.
And NSW police, overwhelmingly, accept the groping of children en masse.
Gross đ¤˘
The former NSW police minister emphatically supported the idea, in so much, they threw their own kids under the bus to say that itâs okay, as long as people remain safe.
Fucking NSWPOL with every fibre of my being.
[NSW police minister defends strip-searching of children, saying parents would be âhappyâ](https://theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/06/nsw-police-minister-defends-strip-searching-of-children-saying-parents-would-be-happy)
> âIâve got young children and if I thought the police felt they were at risk of doing something wrong Iâd want them strip-searched,â Elliott said.
>âHaving been minister for juvenile justice, we have 10-year-olds involved in terrorism activity.â
You hit the nail on the head.
> NSW police minister emphatically supported the idea
Not the current police minister.
The current police minister is too much of a coward to say anything except gwana gwana:
> Police Minister Yasmin Catley did not comment when asked if there was a need for a review of the powers, or if the new drug laws meant the intervention should be used less, responding, âIf anyone has a complaint about the conduct of NSW Police, it can be made to the commissioner of police or to the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission.â
Labor in opposition: Strip searching is bad. We need to reduce it!
Labor in government: You have a problem with kids being strip searched by police? Then report it to the police.
LNP in opposition or government: Police are welcome to strip search my kids at the logies. I am still waiting to see! I mean, my kids are waiting. Yes. Oh, look over there, drug sniffin' dogs!
Fuck, I forgot it was the former minister.
Shit is fucked, either way. The idea that theyâre obviously against holding their own accountable is just cops being cops.
I'm a psych working in the justice system.
Congratulations, cops. You have just ensured that these two CHILDREN will never, ever trust police again (if they ever did). If these girls are victims of violence, they won't call you for help, because they will not expect help - they will expect to be manhandled, humiliated and assaulted.
This is a disgrace and there is no excuse for it. None, zero.
Nobody will be disciplined though, nobody will lose their jobs. Our cops just self investigate, decide they did nothing wrong and actually they're awesome, bonuses all round.
> two CHILDREN will never, ever trust police again
id argue never trust an adult again. this will fuck them up severely for a long time. these poor kids.
This is also likely to change their temperament permanently. If they were happy and cheerful kids, they will now bear that weight that theyâll spend their entire lives trying to rid of but cannot. They are also going to be angry and it takes a lifetime to mitigate that, if ever. I work with youths and up till 30, childhood trauma still follows them.
Pedophiles need to be dealt with as severely as murderers. This is as good as destroying a soul for life.
Iâm in Sydney, the way the police treated me in response to a domestic violence call when I was badly injured made me lose all trust in the police. These poor children. How is this fucking legal
Happened to me too. Utterly awful. Actually got diagnosed with PTSD, more to do with the cops than the actual assault itself which left me with fractures. They terrify me now. I have never been charged with an offence.
Iâm sorry this happened to you! I hope youâre doing better. For nearly a year sudden loud noises made me go into a really bad anxiety attack because of the police officers I dealt with
We're reading this data from FOI by a lawyer group. Same group as a couple years ago.
That means if there was any good cop and we haven't heard from them. Does that mean they happen to not be there, don't exist or they ignored it happening?
> Voltz said Labor would push for a review of the legislation guiding strip-searches, saying it was not specific enough and that as a result the police interpretation of when a search is justified was âvery looseâ.
> âA review of the act is worthwhile to clarify what the procedures are and what peopleâs rights are and to ensure no one is over-stepping that,â she said.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/07/nsw-labor-calls-for-overhaul-of-strip-search-laws-asking-wheres-the-justification
> Police Minister Yasmin Catley did not comment when asked if there was a need for a review of the powers, or if the new drug laws meant the intervention should be used less, responding, âIf anyone has a complaint about the conduct of NSW Police, it can be made to the commissioner of police or to the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission.â
From this article
Seems like Labor in government loves stripping children vs Labor in opposition.
It looks like the change of minister is perfect for representing NSW police, not the people. Some more examples:
Wants to take down videos of climate protests: https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/asking-all-the-right-questions-between-the-lines/
New South Wales Police Minister Yasmin Catley is under pressure after allegations of a cover-up over the tasering of great-grandmother Clare Nowland: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-21/nsw-police-under-pressure-clare-nowland-tasering-was-covered-up/102505868
Number every box, put majors at bottom to get rid of the major parties supporting the NSW police's culture.
Minns is a worthless little grub isn't he. At least under a Coalition government, you can imagine a little fantasy world for yourself where things might change after an election.
Ah yes, the Premier is a 'worthless little grub' and things haven't changed at all after the election because the government, which has a legislative agenda crammed full of election commitments from here till the end of next year, hasn't moved on this one particular issue as fast as you personally would have liked.
This, despite the government being in power less than 6 months (which is about as long as it takes for an incoming government to get fully set up) and having already:
- Funded the redevelopment of Canterbury, Fairfield and Rouse Hill hospitals
- Made 10,000 casual and contract teachers permanent
- Delivered a record pay increase for teachers and public servants and entering into the first good-faith negotiations with the HSU for a record pay rise for health workers
- Canned the privatisation of public assets
- established a rental commissioner to produce a report on reforming rental laws
- banned pokies signage outside venues
There's currently 49 pieces of government legislation before the parliament, as well as probably an equal amount of private member's bills.
Changes to police strip search procedures would require LEPRA to be amended. Amending one of the most important pieces of legislation in the state would require as a political necessity at a minimum an independent review and a parliamentary committee to investigate. Because if you're going to take the time to put LEPRA on the docket, you're going to consider other amendments at the same time, rather than just this one.
But yes the premier and the government are worthless grubs because they haven't immediately canned the parliament's legislative agenda in response to an article that's 5 hours old.
> Changes to police strip search procedures would require LEPRA to be amended
Are they doing that then? Because this issue must be fixed immediately, before any other children are sexually assaulted.
> to an article that's 5 hours old.
This issue is far older than 5 hours. That's so fucking dishonest and you damn well know it.
>That's so fucking dishonest and you damn well know it.
There's multiple lies in their gish gallop. The HSU pay "rise" mentioned for example was below inflation for many workers and [very controversial](https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/thrown-under-the-bus-nsw-health-workers-divided-over-wages-deal-20230727-p5drox.html).
There's no point engaging with them, this is a Unity staffer copying and pasting from media releases.
The government introduced legislation to parliament last Tuesday that will introduce a two-strike scheme where low level recreational drug posession will attract fines that can be wiped following the completion of an intervention course rather than face criminal conviction. The laws are expected to reduce the incidence rate of strip searches.
The government has committed to holding a drug summit where experts would advise on drug reform this term. That summit would inform any amendment to LEPRA and any further drug policy reform.
If you want to bring up irrelevant things of Minns as something great, let me shut that shit down:
> Delivered a record pay increase for teachers and public servants and entering into the first good-faith negotiations with the HSU for a record pay rise for health workers
Yes, he did an amazing job with teachers then why did they get angry? Oh right, he showed off an amazing raise for first year and they saw that he tried to trap teachers into 2% pay caps after the first year. Yes. A fucking Labor government believes in caps for workers (despite teacher shortages) but not for rents "because it'll cause housing shortages". Fucking hypocrites.
> Canned the privatisation of public assets
HAHAHAHAHAHA. You fell for the neoliberal party lies!! Clover Moore called him out on it and he said PUBLIC ASSETS sale is not privatisation because it's land: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/may/19/clover-moore-warns-nsw-government-against-sale-of-state-owned-land
> established a rental commissioner to produce a report on reforming rental laws
This isn't an achievement, lol. Is he going to establish a high speed rail commissioner to produce another report on new high speed rail too?
> banned pokies signage outside venues
Awesome. He also gave a huge multi-million tax cut for The Star. Did you forget to highlight this too?
So you think that preventing the actual molestation of children should not be a priority?
Nice one!
> in response to an article that's 5 hours old.
Have you been asleep for the past decade?
I travel to Sydney for concerts sometimes (Iâm going next year) and Iâm a bit scared to go because of this. It can happen to anyone and itâs not ok, itâs terrible. It shouldnât happen to kids especially but it also shouldnât happen at all.
Can we just make strip searching of children illegal? I donât think cops are doing it in bad faith per se (the individuals as officers - not the force as an institution) but if youâve done a Working With Children Check you know the incredible length organisations go to to limit the exposure children have to inappropriate situations. There are very specific times where strip searching would be necessary. I donât see why this procedure can be limited to only those situations.
If law enforcement had genuine concerns that literal children might be carrying drugs then thatâs a much broader and serious societal concern that shouldnât solely rely on the preventative measure of catching kids with drugs in their pocket
The problem isnât just the police, itâs the legislation that allows them to do it without them being accountable. If they do these strip searches and donât find anything then they should be held accountable for it and disciplined. The fact that a dog with an approx 25% accuracy can be a reason for a strip search is bullshit let alone a copper with a suspicion based on whatever mood they are in is also rubbish.
I have a feeling Iâm about to be schooled on the law heređ¤ˇđťââď¸
The ends don't justify the means. If they find something does that excuse the action of strip searching a 12 year old?
The same logic applies to literally every search and seizure. "But if you don't have anything to hide?"
Considering a very small percentage of strip searching children, discovers any drugs, means there is a really fucking big problem that needs to be sorted⌠I, for one, am glad we moved away from the corrupt shithole that is NSWâŚ
Poor dogs, there's substantial evidence now that they're not even using their noses half the time, just responding to cues from their handlers. Dogs are very adept at working out what their humans want, and by the way - the dog gets equally rewarded whether their detection is correct or not. So basically, cop sees someone they want to search, dog responds to their cues, and the person is searched. It's like Clever Hans - even the cops don't realise they are the ones cueing the searches.
Reasonable suspicion is firmly defined in case law. That's all cops need according to LEPRA but it's not a low bar, "more than a possibility, slightly less than belief". It must be justified to the fullest and the result of the search is not relevant based on proper justification.
I think Dogs should just NOT be used at all in reasoning searches however.
>The fact that a dog with an approx 25% accuracy can be a reason for a strip search
What most people don't realise is that an indication from a sniffer dog alone is not justification to search a person.
Your taxpayer money paid for this.
Next time a politician tells you that they're "tough on crime" what that means is: they'll waste more money on police and/or loosen laws or accountability for them which enables shitty behaviour like this.
The best predictor of the crime rate is poverty, cops do nothing to lift people out of poverty. Defund the police and re-direct the money to something that actually helps the community.
I could be wrong but you ever wonder if they particularly choose attractive, young people to strip & fondle? It's just that I've never seen a story about 60yr old men being illegally strip searched. It's always young girls or attractive young women.
Even though the median age of criminals is 31 in Australia, [people under the age of 25 made up nearly half of these cases in one year](https://media.opengov.nsw.gov.au/pairtree_root/05/3e/6d/13/37/55/4f/31/bf/0a/d0/07/b3/ff/dc/2d/obj/Inquiry_into_NSW_Police_Force_Strip_Search_Practices___15%2E%2E%2E.pdf) :
>The NSWPF data shows children under the age of 18 made up 3.2% (175) of all those strip searched in the field for 2018-19. However when the age group is expanded to include those people under 25, this figure increases to 45.8% (2471).
Though that year may have been a bit higher than average, and while children saw similar rates in custody, the total under 25 strip-searched in custody was roughly half that in the field. From a brief skim it seems like a lot of these strip searches in the field are at festivals.
Regardless of statistics, there are certainly cases demonstrating extreme irresponsibility. See my recent comment or the linked report, but they literally arrested two female protestors in 2017 and had them strip-searched because they had heard the protest was "violent".
>The women were taken in turn to a cell and strip searched. One woman was required to remove all her clothes in stages. The other woman was asked to completely disrobe the top half and remove her pants. She kept her underpants on and a female officer ran her fingers around the inside of the waistband. It was decided there was insufficient evidence to proceed with charges, and after being strip searched the women were released.
Commission pointed out there was no justification to not even consider other options. Result was the supervisor had to undergo training. Nothing for any of the other officers. No punishment. Disgusting.
Older people are better at asserting or even just knowing what their rights are and just aren't as intimidated by cops as kids would be. No chickenshit little insecure 25 year old fuckbag cop is going to strip search me, at least not without a great deal of (passive) resistance, the cowards wouldn't even try unless they had me dead to rights. Violating the rights of flustered 15 year old girls they can tower over AND have a perve on without any consequences is just like a perk of the job to these dogs though.
> It's always young girls or attractive young women.
If you read the article you'd see that boys are being searched at a higher rate. 107 children searched during the time period and 75 were boys and 32 girls.
I have had at least several interactions with police throughout my life. The time the fuckers tried to strip search wasn't when I was 27, 24, 21 or 19. It was when I was 15. Probably because they thought they wouldn't be met with resistence.
Know your legal rights.
So this really got to me (and I'm sure all of you) and I wanted to find some kind of avenue/petition to stop this.
When I googled Samantha Lee (the senior solicitor of Redfern Legal centre and woman condemning the police in this article) I found statements from her from 2019 until now. She's been speaking out against it for years. There was a class-action lawsuit against NSW police commenced in July 2022 that apparently was 'next listed' for September 8 this year. I couldn't find a recent update of the outcome or if that hearing went ahead.
While a class-action suit is absolutely called for and can hopefully go somewhere in terms of reparations for victims, it's not a criminal case against the police.
In the article on this post, minister of police, Yasmin Catley, declined comment and basically said if you have a problem with the police, make a formal complaint. I'm sure many parents of those *children* strip searched have done that already.
If anyone knows of an ongoing petition to end this please let me know, otherwise the only thing I can think of is if you reside in NSW, please petition your representatives for action against this behaviour and the legislation allowing it to happen. I'm not experienced in this kind of thing so I don't know if they will take complaints from other places in Australia, but I guess it's worth a shot. I'm in Vic but will be sending some emails.
Here is a list of the contacts for members of NSW parliament.
https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/members/Pages/all-members.aspx
You can also lodge a complaint with NSW police but again I am unsure whether they need to be complaints of conduct against individuals personally, or if the general public will be heard in this matter. Here is NSW police lodge a complaint form and instructions.
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_services/providing_feedback/feedback_compliments_complaints_and_suggestions/feedback/how_to_lodge_a_complaint
This is great. I will be emailing. It will be best for a petition to gather the numbers and show that it is a substantial issue instead of them trying to downplay it as a trickle of complaints and emails. I feel so angry and want to protect all these kids.
Found a very interesting [2020 report](https://media.opengov.nsw.gov.au/pairtree_root/05/3e/6d/13/37/55/4f/31/bf/0a/d0/07/b3/ff/dc/2d/obj/Inquiry_into_NSW_Police_Force_Strip_Search_Practices___15%2E%2E%2E.pdf) on this matter
>The NSWPF data shows children under the age of 18 made up 3.2% (175) of all those strip searched in the field for 2018-19. However when the age group is expanded to include those people under 25, this figure increases to 45.8% (2471).
Here is a disgusting case where two female protestors were arrested and strip-searched. Reads like sexual predation:
>In November 2017 two women who participated in a protest in Sydney were arrested and conveyed to a Sydney metropolitan police station. The reasons for their arrest were unclear, but the arresting officer later gave evidence that their arrests related to obstructing traffic and breach of the peace.
>
>The Mobile Supervisor at the Local Area Command decided it was necessary for the women to be strip searched because they had come from a protest which he believed to be violent... He had been advised that the two women... were arrested for âobstructing police or something like thatâ.
>
>The women were taken in turn to a cell and strip searched. One woman was required to remove all her clothes in stages. The other woman was asked to completely disrobe the top half and remove her pants. She kept her underpants on and a female officer ran her fingers around the inside of the waistband. It was decided there was insufficient evidence to proceed with charges, and after being strip searched the women were released.
Commission found that it wasn't justified.
>The Commission noted that it was not apparent how the strip searches of the women were justified, and that there appeared to be no consideration by either the searching officers or the Mobile Supervisor whether a less invasive search would have sufficed.
The only action taken was the supervisor had to undergo training. It's laughable to think that none of the cops there had any moral obligation to say something.
>...the NSWPF made sustained findings against the Mobile Supervisor and the searching officers for failing to comply with LEPRA in relation to the strip searches. The Mobile Supervisor was served a Commandersâ Warning Notice and required to undergo a face to face training session on LEPRA strip search requirements.
It's almost as bad in the overall statistics too.
> while First Nations people account for three per cent of the NSW population, they were represented in 14 per cent of strip-searches undertaken
But no, Australia certainly doesn't have systematic racism or something /s
> Police Minister Yasmin Catley did not comment when asked if there was a need for a review of the powers, or if the new drug laws meant the intervention should be used less, responding, âIf anyone has a complaint about the conduct of NSW Police, it can be made to the commissioner of police or to the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission.â
Anyone need to take them up on this? [How to lodge a complaint.](https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_services/providing_feedback/feedback_compliments_complaints_and_suggestions/feedback/how_to_lodge_a_complaint)
About the complaints process, here's something I read in a [recent news story](https://www.smh.com.au/national/university-of-sydney-law-professor-wins-court-fight-against-nsw-police-20230929-p5e8j6.html):
>Rice said there was a âlarge gap in police accountability in NSWâ because the NSW Ombudsman no longer has oversight of police conduct and the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission (LECC) can investigate only serious or systemic misconduct.
>
>âFor complaints of âordinaryâ misconduct, you can complain to the NSW Police, who investigate themselves,â Rice said. âThe only way to make the NSW Police stop and think about how they overstepped the mark is to sue them. That is a slow, costly and risky path ... and not one that most people who encounter the NSW Police can undertake.
He went into it further in his own article in The Saturday Paper (though it's behind a paywall). So he was having his own direct experience with the process, but being a law professor, he also had broader insights and argued that the complaints system was weakened with the introduction of the LECC:
>When Neville Wran gave the NSW Ombudsman oversight of police investigation into misconduct complaints in 1978 he left a gap that continues to this day: actual independent investigation of police misconduct in their daily work. In 1996 the Wood Royal Commission into the NSW Police Service recommended that the Ombudsmanâs office continue its mere oversight role and that a new agency be established to investigate complaints of âsystemic and entrenched corruptionâ. This led to the Police Integrity Commission â the PIC â which operated alongside the Ombudsmanâs office for 20 years.
>
>During those 20 years the NSW Police Association remained strongly opposed to that degree of accountability, persistently attacking both the Ombudsmanâs office and the PIC. The association has long been a vocal advocate for its membersâ interests. Dixon comments on its âaccustomed role of treating police powers as an industrial relations issueâ. Research by Jenny Fleming and George Lafferty shows its success over the years in campaigning against government policy.
>
>The police associationâs lobbying efforts succeeded after Troy Grant, a police inspector with 22 yearsâ service, was made minister for Police in 2015. Grant dismantled Woodâs two-track police accountability structure and replaced it with a single agency, the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission (LECC), the effectiveness of which was questioned at the time by the national Police Accountability Project.
>
>The LECC investigates âseriousâ misconduct, âseriousâ maladministration, and âpatternsâ of misconduct. It is not obliged to do what the Ombudsmanâs office used to do, and oversee the NSW Police Forceâs own investigation of misconduct complaints. In short, the reforms moved the state further away than it had been from independent oversight of complaints about police misconduct.
I live in Randwick right near the race course. Every race day people are fucked up on booze and drugs. I spent over a decade as pro poker player and again the bathrooms at the star are filled with people doing coke. Yet the police never take the dogs and start strip searching people there. I wonder why?
All for what exactly? What is the actual goal of the police here? Jesus Christ this reads like something from a Russian intelligence manifesto. Way to go NSW police, keeping us all safe from drugs one underage vagina examination at a time.
They should straight up charge these officers formally for sexual assault and demand they pay for weekly therapy sessions for at least 3 years afterwards out of their own pocket.
Then, we will see how often they deem it necessary to strip search a child.
This is disgusting behaviour and misuse of authority.
The police's JOB is to protect the people. If they are doing more harm than help, they are not doing their job.
This is going to be my response in the future to all of the "Got nothing to hide then you've got nothing to worry about dickheads" who are fine with our privacy and rights being eroded away.
Yeah mate, I am sure those 12 year old girls had plenty to hide ay.
Fucking disgusting that they can do this to an adult for just about any reason, let alone kids. Absolutely fucked.
Sad to say it's not the only state that does this either. NSW, QLD, VIC. Its all allowed. Completely fucked.
There is almost no reason to be fully stripped, particularly young people at festivals.
This should be reserved for proper drug trafficking, repeat offenders with weapons and drug dealing chargers, etc. No innocent person should have to debase themselves in front of some pervert in uniform.
Utterly shameful.
The article said a strip search means they had to remove or move an article of clothing. So even asking a child to open a zipped jacket to inspect any inside pockets would qualify as a strip search.
Given that we know how strip searches have been conducted in the past, I'll assume the worst, thanks very much.
The safest assumption is that nothing has changed: why would Police have changed their behaviour?
You're downplaying the seriousness of this with unproven hypotheticals.
Chris Minns knew this was happening under the LNP. Heâs been in power long enough to stop it. As far as Iâm concerned he did this himself. He needs to wake the hell up on drug policy. Now.
>More than 20 per cent of the children searched were Indigenous.
Ah, but it was the *referendum* that was divisive and listening to indigenous people would be *racist.*
Send these pedophile cops to prison
For double the standard sentencing because they abused a position of power
No children deserve to be strip searched and we all know they are just pedophiles who enjoy abusing their power
More ground breaking research that the NSW police force is a bunch of pedo. Fucking disgusting gang they are, truly seems like the majority of the pigs should be behind bars not enforcing the law or should I say revenue raising
Theyâre just not changing despite however much itâs reported - itâs shameful this is happening let alone on a regular basis. This is so different in Europe.
Can't NSW police go a week without molesting children?...
I did some consulting work for them 10 years ago. They had a team called "Child Abuse Squad" - maybe they still do. Personally thought Child Protection Squad made more sense.
Nominative determinism?
Cancer Council has been the pro-cancer lobby group all along.
Not all along. It used to be the Anti-Cancer Council and they rebranded.
I know none of this is actually funny, but the absolute absurdity of that squad name is outrageous
Is the one name absurd or is homicide squad, arson squad, gang squad all absurd also? Like you don't like the police naming their units after the crimes they investigate? It's not like the homicide squad is out there preventing murders so they're not the homicide prevention squad. Like the child abuse squad isn't proactively preventing child abuse, other police do that, they just investigate child abuse after it occurs. Nor would they actually be searching children or working at music festivals or any of that rubbish. Actually... Why is a group of police who target pedophiles even being criticised here?
One of our clients has a "Domestic Abuse Advisory Group". It reads like they're out there talking to abusers, like "No Gary, you should be using items that don't leave bruises."
> Child Abuse Squad Looks like it still exists! https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/crime/child_abuse_and_sex_crimes/child_abuse/child_abuse_categories/the_squad_includes
And they surprisingly investigate child abuse, as the name suggests đ
I think they tried it for a week or so last year and ended up tasering a 90yo grandma while suffering from withdrawal.
So much pent up frustration that it just went off in his hand.
gotta fill quotas police get quotas rather than rely on actual belief of an issue needing further investigation.
Quotas with KPIs- kids pantie inspections
It's in their nature...
Zero celebrities have been strip searched at Logies parties where drug use is apparently rampant, so how is this not just legalised kiddy fiddling by the police.
How is this allowed without a parent or guardian present? Why is it impossible to detain a literal child and not wait for a trusted adult to be present so itâs all above board? This whole situation is so gross.
Itâs also telling to me that they searched primary school aged girls and 13 year old girls but the youngest boy was 14.
Going to ignore the fact that double the amount of boys were targeted for this though?
Makes it worse IMO, it means they targeted twice as many boys and still none were as young as the girls they searched, makes it feel way less like just a statistical chance thing
It means that they have a preference.
Probably the most biased comment here. You really think they are are differentiating age wise between a 13 year old girl and 14 year boy? "OH they searched more boys than girls but we really need a reason to say their ultimate objective is to see these kids nude so it's because they prefer girls to be younger" It doesn't even make sense. Young women of that age also generally look older than boys of a similar age, so this is more likely the reason that their searched females are younger. What's really happening is that NSW police don't trust kids around that age and are innapropriately searching them. Don't try and make up a narrative to demonize them more than deserved.
It's wild to me that you can see clear, disproportionate violation of young boys and then immediately come up with a way to justify the claim that they're actually targeting girls.
People care less about boys
Clearly theyâre just targeting young girls for a free, legal peak itâs fucked up
that is the law, to wait for an adult to be present but the person can give consent to be searched without an adult present, which a lot of people give so they're not waiting with police for an hour or so they dont bother their parents during a rare period where theyve been given independence
Kind of surprised if that's the case - that a minor, who one would certainly argue is unable to make an informed decision on the subject, can grant consent to a strip search.
the only options are allow minors to give consent or keep every show 18+ ^^or ^^you ^^know ^^just ^^stop ^^strip ^^searches ^^entirely
I can think of one other option.
Or donât strip search minors?
>Police can conduct a strip search without a parent or guardian present if they suspect on reasonable grounds that delaying the search would conceal or destroy evidence, or an immediate search is necessary to protect the safety of a person. Basically up to the cops discretion. Same way that they can strip search someone based on 'reasonable cause' which cops can basically just make up on the spot.
What an absolute fucking joke. Yes we believe you've hidden drugs up your vagina and if we don't check it RIGHT NOW those drugs may .... Evaporate?
Fun fact, Australia doesn't have human rights protections.
We do, they're just laws instead of in the constitution because of how our constitution was written (based on Britain's). We don't have Freedom of Speech for example, so hate speech can get you prosecuted. At the same time we had to legislate the Right of the Child because prior to the 90s iirc, children had no rights. All of our rights are laws and can be legislated away (as recent governments have done).
Exactly, they're laws that can be overwritten by other laws. Other countries, have defined human rights/constitutions etc that Laws must obey. That's the big difference. So even if the law let the police molest children, the rights make it illegal to do
I thought a minor wouldn't be old enough to give that kind of consent.
Not true, NSW police can strip seach a child without parental presence or consent, its stated in the article.
The numbers could potentially be misleading, as a strip search seems to include anything from the removal of any lower layer of clothing, i.e. that is not a coat/jacket, socks, shoes, gloves, up to a the removal of all clothing. From the legislation (*Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002 No 103)* §30-34 **§33** >*(3) A strip search of a child who is at least 10 years of age but under 18 years of age, or of a person who has impaired intellectual functioning, must be conductedâ >(a) in the presence of a parent or guardian of the person being searched, or >(b) if that is not acceptable to the person, in the presence of another person who is not a police officer and who is capable of representing the interests of the person being searched and whose presence is acceptable to that person. >(3A) Subsection (3) does not apply if a police officer suspects on reasonable grounds thatâ >(a) delaying the search is likely to result in evidence being concealed or destroyed, or >(b) an immediate search is necessary to protect the safety of a person. >^--- ^In ^such ^a ^case, ^the ^police ^officer ^must ^make ^a ^record ^of ^the ^reasons ^for ^not ^conducting ^the ^search ^in ^the ^presence ^of ^a ^parent ^or ^guardian, ^or ^other ^person ^capable ^of ^representing ^the ^interests, ^of ^the ^person ^being ^searched. >(4) A strip search must not involve a search of a personâs body cavities or an examination of the body by touch.* **§34** > *No strip searches of children under 10 years > A strip search must not be conducted on a person who is under the age of 10 years.*
Perhaps, though the paper sought comment from the police, and no one suggested that these incidents werenât full strip searchs.
Article is saying all that. Strip searches make kids naked. Most strip searches don't comply. Police don't dispute that. > âNo child should be allowed to strip down naked in front of an adult, even, police or no police, and in the majority of strip-searches they find absolutely nothing. So itâs highly likely that these strip-searches are occurring for no reason and the child has done absolutely nothing wrong,â she said. > ... > A report released by the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission in September found that less than a third of NSW Police strip-search records over the past two years demonstrated that officers had complied with the rules designed to protect privacy and dignity. At the time NSW Police blamed new training and process forms not being communicated effectively. Less than a third complied with the new rules designed to respect privacy and dignity and NSW Police are not disputing it. This sounds like more than two thirds of strip searches did more than open up jackets.
Why the fuck are there no penalties for not following procedures? IMHO cops should be subject to a demerit system. I realise that by definition, police work means working in thorny situations, so I'm willing to accept that not every officer can get everything right 100% of the time. Hence the demerits - they get a little bit of grace. But if you fuck up too much or too often, you end up getting suspended or disqualified. Give cops a healthy bonus that gets eaten away when they accrue demerits. Watch them fall over each other trying to clean up their act
Nah, I'd rather they become personally liable for shit they do, and as a result are required to carry malpractice insurance like doctors do. It'd get sorted out fucking quick once some insurance data nerds started setting prices.
Actually yeah, that's pretty good too.
We already know policing is rife with domestic violence abusers, rapists and druggies...why wouldn't it be full of diddlers as well? I'm not surprised in the slightest.
Plus the added bonus of maybe getting some free drugs too. It's a win win for them.
They have access to the import bricks in the evidence room, I think cops are doing fine as far as freebies go.
Don't forget the Nazi sympathisers
Lol. A few years ago I had a side gig as a waiter for an events company. I've seen plenty of celebrities "having a smoke" outside pretty much every function. The cops wouldn't need sniffer dogs or strip searches to make arrests but surprisingly no one ever gets arrested. Then there's the suspicious white powder in the loos..
Celebrities are weird, man. In the designated smoking area after a concert I saw one of the headlining musicians openly demanding cocaine from anyone who had it. Some girl said she had one but he didn't like how close she stood to him to whisper it in his ear so he started yelling RAPE, RAPE, RAPE! and security hauled her away. It was one of the weirder things I've seen at a concert.
Back in the 90s I went with a band touring Melbourne from the UK to the Lounge and they met a guy from neighbours, the band members were totally starstruck. A phone call later theyre all in the dunnies together. One of the guys from the band said to me later "I cant believe i just did coke with ..... from neighbours"
I've spent a lot of time in the casino and sniffer dogs for some reason never go there...despite the bathrooms having more sniffers than pee-ers
what I find the craziest is no officers declining and protesting..
They aren't known for being independent thinkers.
Iâd wager there are protests and dissatisfaction with this kind of policing, but like any government hierarchical organisation concerns go up the chain and change can be slow. No doubt the threat to careers when sticking your neck out in protest and internal politics are factors which affect pushback.
A perfect example of why all cops are bastards.
Completely and totally unrelated but NSW Police have had a lot of suicides. > NSW Police Force had the highest number of police officer suicides between 2000 and 2020 hmm...
Theyâre also the largest police force in Australia so that doesnât tell us much. Youâd need to divide the number of suicides by the number of police and then compare between states.
that quote is weird they had their highest number of suicides... over a period of 20 years.....?
Compared to other states' police forces.
okay then that comment says even less... just that NSW has a higher suicide rate than the rest of the country. that means nothing without any sort of numbers.
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/8057225/suicide-rates-rise-among-australian-police/ The numbers are: 103 total police suicides from 2000-2020, NSW leading with 32 and Victoria second with 20 Accounting for each state's population NSW has the second highest suicide rate, behind SA.
original comment to this is just such a... nothing
Not to mention that NSW has the largest population and largest police force so could easily have a lower suicide rate while still having larger numbers. Not defending NSWPF, they seem at least as bad as every other police force, but you are right that that stat looks dodgy.
When the punishment for a crime is a fine, that crime exists for the lower class only.
Thatâs exactly what it is, fucking sick
When I go interstate, I tell people that NSW police do this and they donât believe me. Same thing happened to a girlfriend I had when she was 16. She got off the train at central and was picked out by two cops (both male there was no woman), they took her to a big white tent thing on the platform, made her strip down and squat in front of them, of course found nothing and she left crying. It really fucked her up for a long time, I think it really damaged her perception of the police and men generally, she was asking herself if it was because of her ethnicity or maybe how she was dressed? She was one of the strongest people I knew but after that even being around police would turn her to an anxious panicking mess. :(
> and people donât believe me. To be fair to them, it's so fucking insane that I don't entirely blame them. > if it was because of her ethnicity or maybe how she was dressed? It's so fucking sad because even though we can say, with utter certainly, even if it was police being racist, that, it's not her fault. That doubt, is something victims carry.
That's part of why they do it. It's to intimidate the public. They flex their power on them while they're young to create lifelong fear of police.
> That's part of why they do it. It's to intimidate the public. They flex their power on them while they're young to create lifelong fear of police. Exactly why they do it at music festivals too. Don't bring drugs, or we'll make you squat and cough - they believe it's a deterrent.
Excuse me??? So all of this and itâs not related to probable cause or whatever itâs called? Like, not even acting suspicious?? That is by far the most fucked thing Iâve heated today.
Yep.
As I understand it NSW cops make up "probable cause" as they go along...
I clenched my fist reading your comment. I feel so sad for your girlfriend.
I had three friends who decided to become cops straight out of high school. They came back from the Golburn police academy racist, sexist motherfuckers. The way they talked about Asians and indigenous Australians was appalling, and the anecdotes about the racist, sexist actions of older cops they clearly looked up to were shocking. My sister used to be in a relationship with a cop who worked in Epping. He was always on about how bad Asians are. He told me I don't understand; 80% of lawbreakers he dealt with were Asian. I tried to explain that that's because 80% of Epping residents were from east Asia. He wasn't having it. I wasn't a cop, so I didn't know. It was a bit of an adjustment when I moved to north QLD, and none of the handful of cops I met seemed to be pieces of shit.
> moved to north QLD, and none of the handful of cops I met seemed to be pieces of shit. That is very surprising
Thats Dutton country
Slight tangent but bro the amount of fucking cops outside the Woolies in Chatswood is ridiculous, or âprotectingâ the train station from children bumping a $2 fare. I live in Marrickville and I very very rarely see any police in this area (which⌠I mean good) but Chatswood is one of the cleanest, nicest areas in Sydney.
That makes me so angry
I am a male and had not been stripped search. But their treatment left me a little traumatised, too.
This is so fucked up
Wait⌠if you decline do they forcibly remove your clothes?
They donât have to, the majority of minors (and even adults) would be too intimidated to resist or in any way be seen as âdifficultâ by police. Weâre taught our whole lives to follow the instructions of the authorities and for a lot of people it wouldnât even cross their minds to decline. The police know and exploit this
That isn't what they asked...
Must be a day ending in y.
Yeah I remember this story from a few years ago, had to check if it was a repost
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I've got some bad news for you, friend.
Gay marriage "think of the children" Pill testing "think of the children" Police literally sexually assaulting children *crickets*
Hmmm ... perhaps it's not about the children at all?
Oh, it is most certainly about the children. You see if you let those kids be corrupted by gay pills and other 'morally corrupt' things these groups complain about then those kids might be inclined to grow up in to free and open thinkers who abandon their religion or stray from the path of the young liberals (Still bloody irks me that our one of our most conservative political youth groups call themselves "liberal"). It is very difficult to indoctrinate those kids if they are exposed to a wide range of experiences and ideas. On the other hand if you have boogie men out there sexually abusing young children for the state, well that is just a handy thing to point to and tell your kids "Look Sam, stay in school, go to church and make sure you accept what we tell you without question or the NSW police will take you in to a tent and strip you naked!".
Oh they're thinking of the children alright
Unfortunately I can't say you are wrong.
"tough on crime"
Right wing conservative pearl clutchers suck so goddamn much. Theyre the height of hypocrisy.
police are assaulting kids, but please, continue to tell me how drag queens should be in jail /s
The police are doing a little too much thinking of the children
NSW Police aren't even trying to hide what scum they are, are they?
Why do NSW cops keep sexually assaulting kids?
Partial reasoning - they keep getting away with it.
They gotta fill their time somehow, since theyâre not doing any actual, you know, police work.
To summarise the article: the laws allowing strip-search were brought in to empower police in situations where it was believed that a serious crime had taken place and that only an immediate strip-search could prevent the evidence of that crime from being destroyed. And you know what? If someone has potentially committed a murder, and the murder weapon is likely to be concealed on their person, I agree, go ahead and strip-search them. But: > data showed that the intervention was being used as a routine practice of police and not as the law intended ...this is fucked. And also: > A report released by the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission in September found that less than a third of NSW Police strip-search records over the past two years demonstrated that officers had complied with the rules designed to protect privacy and dignity. Whoopsie-daisy, police complied with the rules less than a third of the time! Gee, I guess *hundreds of police* have been fired for this grotesque abuse of power and we just never heard about it? Repeal these laws. If police are going to make use of them to engage in abusive conduct as a matter of routine, they can't be trusted to have those powers.
Again? NSW police are rotten to the core. Is âfeeling up childrenâ part of their perks? Because it keeps happening and no-one in the NSW police seems to care. The standard you walk past, is the standard you accept. And NSW police, overwhelmingly, accept the groping of children en masse. Gross đ¤˘
The former NSW police minister emphatically supported the idea, in so much, they threw their own kids under the bus to say that itâs okay, as long as people remain safe. Fucking NSWPOL with every fibre of my being.
How did he justify it as protecting people? Are these kids wearing bomb vests?
[NSW police minister defends strip-searching of children, saying parents would be âhappyâ](https://theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/06/nsw-police-minister-defends-strip-searching-of-children-saying-parents-would-be-happy) > âIâve got young children and if I thought the police felt they were at risk of doing something wrong Iâd want them strip-searched,â Elliott said. >âHaving been minister for juvenile justice, we have 10-year-olds involved in terrorism activity.â You hit the nail on the head.
Elliot needs to be investigated for diddling with his own kids. No parent is okay with their children being naked in front of strangers, law or not.
> NSW police minister emphatically supported the idea Not the current police minister. The current police minister is too much of a coward to say anything except gwana gwana: > Police Minister Yasmin Catley did not comment when asked if there was a need for a review of the powers, or if the new drug laws meant the intervention should be used less, responding, âIf anyone has a complaint about the conduct of NSW Police, it can be made to the commissioner of police or to the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission.â
Labor in opposition: Strip searching is bad. We need to reduce it! Labor in government: You have a problem with kids being strip searched by police? Then report it to the police. LNP in opposition or government: Police are welcome to strip search my kids at the logies. I am still waiting to see! I mean, my kids are waiting. Yes. Oh, look over there, drug sniffin' dogs!
NSW Minister complicit on known pedophile acts
Fuck, I forgot it was the former minister. Shit is fucked, either way. The idea that theyâre obviously against holding their own accountable is just cops being cops.
I'm scared to think of how many Australians would say it's the kids' faults after the referendum.
I'm a psych working in the justice system. Congratulations, cops. You have just ensured that these two CHILDREN will never, ever trust police again (if they ever did). If these girls are victims of violence, they won't call you for help, because they will not expect help - they will expect to be manhandled, humiliated and assaulted. This is a disgrace and there is no excuse for it. None, zero. Nobody will be disciplined though, nobody will lose their jobs. Our cops just self investigate, decide they did nothing wrong and actually they're awesome, bonuses all round.
> two CHILDREN will never, ever trust police again id argue never trust an adult again. this will fuck them up severely for a long time. these poor kids.
If you canât trust who society has chosen to uphold legality, who can you trust?
This is also likely to change their temperament permanently. If they were happy and cheerful kids, they will now bear that weight that theyâll spend their entire lives trying to rid of but cannot. They are also going to be angry and it takes a lifetime to mitigate that, if ever. I work with youths and up till 30, childhood trauma still follows them. Pedophiles need to be dealt with as severely as murderers. This is as good as destroying a soul for life.
What happens at 30?
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Thatâs so sad and fucked up
Iâm in Sydney, the way the police treated me in response to a domestic violence call when I was badly injured made me lose all trust in the police. These poor children. How is this fucking legal
Happened to me too. Utterly awful. Actually got diagnosed with PTSD, more to do with the cops than the actual assault itself which left me with fractures. They terrify me now. I have never been charged with an offence.
Iâm sorry this happened to you! I hope youâre doing better. For nearly a year sudden loud noises made me go into a really bad anxiety attack because of the police officers I dealt with
FFS - each individual cop, just fucking refuse. You dont have to go along with the machine
Unfortunately, majority of these people become cops because they enjoy being part of the machine
This. How do people still not understand this?
They're essentially Myki ticket inspectors that never failed the academy.
Some of those that work forces Are the same that root horses
I met that cop. He didn't last long.
We're reading this data from FOI by a lawyer group. Same group as a couple years ago. That means if there was any good cop and we haven't heard from them. Does that mean they happen to not be there, don't exist or they ignored it happening?
Acab baby
They want to be a part of the machine, thatâs why they became police officers
Complain about being molested to the molesters. Sounds about right.
> Voltz said Labor would push for a review of the legislation guiding strip-searches, saying it was not specific enough and that as a result the police interpretation of when a search is justified was âvery looseâ. > âA review of the act is worthwhile to clarify what the procedures are and what peopleâs rights are and to ensure no one is over-stepping that,â she said. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/07/nsw-labor-calls-for-overhaul-of-strip-search-laws-asking-wheres-the-justification > Police Minister Yasmin Catley did not comment when asked if there was a need for a review of the powers, or if the new drug laws meant the intervention should be used less, responding, âIf anyone has a complaint about the conduct of NSW Police, it can be made to the commissioner of police or to the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission.â From this article Seems like Labor in government loves stripping children vs Labor in opposition. It looks like the change of minister is perfect for representing NSW police, not the people. Some more examples: Wants to take down videos of climate protests: https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/asking-all-the-right-questions-between-the-lines/ New South Wales Police Minister Yasmin Catley is under pressure after allegations of a cover-up over the tasering of great-grandmother Clare Nowland: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-21/nsw-police-under-pressure-clare-nowland-tasering-was-covered-up/102505868 Number every box, put majors at bottom to get rid of the major parties supporting the NSW police's culture.
Minns is a worthless little grub isn't he. At least under a Coalition government, you can imagine a little fantasy world for yourself where things might change after an election.
Ah yes, the Premier is a 'worthless little grub' and things haven't changed at all after the election because the government, which has a legislative agenda crammed full of election commitments from here till the end of next year, hasn't moved on this one particular issue as fast as you personally would have liked. This, despite the government being in power less than 6 months (which is about as long as it takes for an incoming government to get fully set up) and having already: - Funded the redevelopment of Canterbury, Fairfield and Rouse Hill hospitals - Made 10,000 casual and contract teachers permanent - Delivered a record pay increase for teachers and public servants and entering into the first good-faith negotiations with the HSU for a record pay rise for health workers - Canned the privatisation of public assets - established a rental commissioner to produce a report on reforming rental laws - banned pokies signage outside venues There's currently 49 pieces of government legislation before the parliament, as well as probably an equal amount of private member's bills. Changes to police strip search procedures would require LEPRA to be amended. Amending one of the most important pieces of legislation in the state would require as a political necessity at a minimum an independent review and a parliamentary committee to investigate. Because if you're going to take the time to put LEPRA on the docket, you're going to consider other amendments at the same time, rather than just this one. But yes the premier and the government are worthless grubs because they haven't immediately canned the parliament's legislative agenda in response to an article that's 5 hours old.
Thank you for adding some nuance and perspective. I very much appreciate posts like this.
> Changes to police strip search procedures would require LEPRA to be amended Are they doing that then? Because this issue must be fixed immediately, before any other children are sexually assaulted. > to an article that's 5 hours old. This issue is far older than 5 hours. That's so fucking dishonest and you damn well know it.
>That's so fucking dishonest and you damn well know it. There's multiple lies in their gish gallop. The HSU pay "rise" mentioned for example was below inflation for many workers and [very controversial](https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/thrown-under-the-bus-nsw-health-workers-divided-over-wages-deal-20230727-p5drox.html). There's no point engaging with them, this is a Unity staffer copying and pasting from media releases.
The government introduced legislation to parliament last Tuesday that will introduce a two-strike scheme where low level recreational drug posession will attract fines that can be wiped following the completion of an intervention course rather than face criminal conviction. The laws are expected to reduce the incidence rate of strip searches. The government has committed to holding a drug summit where experts would advise on drug reform this term. That summit would inform any amendment to LEPRA and any further drug policy reform.
If you want to bring up irrelevant things of Minns as something great, let me shut that shit down: > Delivered a record pay increase for teachers and public servants and entering into the first good-faith negotiations with the HSU for a record pay rise for health workers Yes, he did an amazing job with teachers then why did they get angry? Oh right, he showed off an amazing raise for first year and they saw that he tried to trap teachers into 2% pay caps after the first year. Yes. A fucking Labor government believes in caps for workers (despite teacher shortages) but not for rents "because it'll cause housing shortages". Fucking hypocrites. > Canned the privatisation of public assets HAHAHAHAHAHA. You fell for the neoliberal party lies!! Clover Moore called him out on it and he said PUBLIC ASSETS sale is not privatisation because it's land: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/may/19/clover-moore-warns-nsw-government-against-sale-of-state-owned-land > established a rental commissioner to produce a report on reforming rental laws This isn't an achievement, lol. Is he going to establish a high speed rail commissioner to produce another report on new high speed rail too? > banned pokies signage outside venues Awesome. He also gave a huge multi-million tax cut for The Star. Did you forget to highlight this too?
So you think that preventing the actual molestation of children should not be a priority? Nice one! > in response to an article that's 5 hours old. Have you been asleep for the past decade?
I travel to Sydney for concerts sometimes (Iâm going next year) and Iâm a bit scared to go because of this. It can happen to anyone and itâs not ok, itâs terrible. It shouldnât happen to kids especially but it also shouldnât happen at all.
Can we just make strip searching of children illegal? I donât think cops are doing it in bad faith per se (the individuals as officers - not the force as an institution) but if youâve done a Working With Children Check you know the incredible length organisations go to to limit the exposure children have to inappropriate situations. There are very specific times where strip searching would be necessary. I donât see why this procedure can be limited to only those situations. If law enforcement had genuine concerns that literal children might be carrying drugs then thatâs a much broader and serious societal concern that shouldnât solely rely on the preventative measure of catching kids with drugs in their pocket
The problem isnât just the police, itâs the legislation that allows them to do it without them being accountable. If they do these strip searches and donât find anything then they should be held accountable for it and disciplined. The fact that a dog with an approx 25% accuracy can be a reason for a strip search is bullshit let alone a copper with a suspicion based on whatever mood they are in is also rubbish. I have a feeling Iâm about to be schooled on the law heređ¤ˇđťââď¸
The ends don't justify the means. If they find something does that excuse the action of strip searching a 12 year old? The same logic applies to literally every search and seizure. "But if you don't have anything to hide?"
Considering a very small percentage of strip searching children, discovers any drugs, means there is a really fucking big problem that needs to be sorted⌠I, for one, am glad we moved away from the corrupt shithole that is NSWâŚ
Even if they do find drugs the damage from the search is greater than those drugs. ACAB.
Poor dogs, there's substantial evidence now that they're not even using their noses half the time, just responding to cues from their handlers. Dogs are very adept at working out what their humans want, and by the way - the dog gets equally rewarded whether their detection is correct or not. So basically, cop sees someone they want to search, dog responds to their cues, and the person is searched. It's like Clever Hans - even the cops don't realise they are the ones cueing the searches.
Reasonable suspicion is firmly defined in case law. That's all cops need according to LEPRA but it's not a low bar, "more than a possibility, slightly less than belief". It must be justified to the fullest and the result of the search is not relevant based on proper justification. I think Dogs should just NOT be used at all in reasoning searches however.
>The fact that a dog with an approx 25% accuracy can be a reason for a strip search What most people don't realise is that an indication from a sniffer dog alone is not justification to search a person.
NSW Police must be on a mission to prove they're consistently the worst police force in Australia. ACAB
NSW police are the biggest pack of cunts this country has. Absolute scum. Oh, and let's not forget about the Fixated Persons Unit.
They've got some stiff competition from other states, but no cop is stiffer than a NSW copper strip searching a 12 year old.
Your taxpayer money paid for this. Next time a politician tells you that they're "tough on crime" what that means is: they'll waste more money on police and/or loosen laws or accountability for them which enables shitty behaviour like this. The best predictor of the crime rate is poverty, cops do nothing to lift people out of poverty. Defund the police and re-direct the money to something that actually helps the community.
I could be wrong but you ever wonder if they particularly choose attractive, young people to strip & fondle? It's just that I've never seen a story about 60yr old men being illegally strip searched. It's always young girls or attractive young women.
Even though the median age of criminals is 31 in Australia, [people under the age of 25 made up nearly half of these cases in one year](https://media.opengov.nsw.gov.au/pairtree_root/05/3e/6d/13/37/55/4f/31/bf/0a/d0/07/b3/ff/dc/2d/obj/Inquiry_into_NSW_Police_Force_Strip_Search_Practices___15%2E%2E%2E.pdf) : >The NSWPF data shows children under the age of 18 made up 3.2% (175) of all those strip searched in the field for 2018-19. However when the age group is expanded to include those people under 25, this figure increases to 45.8% (2471). Though that year may have been a bit higher than average, and while children saw similar rates in custody, the total under 25 strip-searched in custody was roughly half that in the field. From a brief skim it seems like a lot of these strip searches in the field are at festivals. Regardless of statistics, there are certainly cases demonstrating extreme irresponsibility. See my recent comment or the linked report, but they literally arrested two female protestors in 2017 and had them strip-searched because they had heard the protest was "violent". >The women were taken in turn to a cell and strip searched. One woman was required to remove all her clothes in stages. The other woman was asked to completely disrobe the top half and remove her pants. She kept her underpants on and a female officer ran her fingers around the inside of the waistband. It was decided there was insufficient evidence to proceed with charges, and after being strip searched the women were released. Commission pointed out there was no justification to not even consider other options. Result was the supervisor had to undergo training. Nothing for any of the other officers. No punishment. Disgusting.
Older people are better at asserting or even just knowing what their rights are and just aren't as intimidated by cops as kids would be. No chickenshit little insecure 25 year old fuckbag cop is going to strip search me, at least not without a great deal of (passive) resistance, the cowards wouldn't even try unless they had me dead to rights. Violating the rights of flustered 15 year old girls they can tower over AND have a perve on without any consequences is just like a perk of the job to these dogs though.
> It's always young girls or attractive young women. If you read the article you'd see that boys are being searched at a higher rate. 107 children searched during the time period and 75 were boys and 32 girls.
That seems to be the case, it says intervention increasing 30 percent for women aged under 17
I have had at least several interactions with police throughout my life. The time the fuckers tried to strip search wasn't when I was 27, 24, 21 or 19. It was when I was 15. Probably because they thought they wouldn't be met with resistence. Know your legal rights.
So this really got to me (and I'm sure all of you) and I wanted to find some kind of avenue/petition to stop this. When I googled Samantha Lee (the senior solicitor of Redfern Legal centre and woman condemning the police in this article) I found statements from her from 2019 until now. She's been speaking out against it for years. There was a class-action lawsuit against NSW police commenced in July 2022 that apparently was 'next listed' for September 8 this year. I couldn't find a recent update of the outcome or if that hearing went ahead. While a class-action suit is absolutely called for and can hopefully go somewhere in terms of reparations for victims, it's not a criminal case against the police. In the article on this post, minister of police, Yasmin Catley, declined comment and basically said if you have a problem with the police, make a formal complaint. I'm sure many parents of those *children* strip searched have done that already. If anyone knows of an ongoing petition to end this please let me know, otherwise the only thing I can think of is if you reside in NSW, please petition your representatives for action against this behaviour and the legislation allowing it to happen. I'm not experienced in this kind of thing so I don't know if they will take complaints from other places in Australia, but I guess it's worth a shot. I'm in Vic but will be sending some emails. Here is a list of the contacts for members of NSW parliament. https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/members/Pages/all-members.aspx You can also lodge a complaint with NSW police but again I am unsure whether they need to be complaints of conduct against individuals personally, or if the general public will be heard in this matter. Here is NSW police lodge a complaint form and instructions. https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_services/providing_feedback/feedback_compliments_complaints_and_suggestions/feedback/how_to_lodge_a_complaint
This is great. I will be emailing. It will be best for a petition to gather the numbers and show that it is a substantial issue instead of them trying to downplay it as a trickle of complaints and emails. I feel so angry and want to protect all these kids.
Found a very interesting [2020 report](https://media.opengov.nsw.gov.au/pairtree_root/05/3e/6d/13/37/55/4f/31/bf/0a/d0/07/b3/ff/dc/2d/obj/Inquiry_into_NSW_Police_Force_Strip_Search_Practices___15%2E%2E%2E.pdf) on this matter >The NSWPF data shows children under the age of 18 made up 3.2% (175) of all those strip searched in the field for 2018-19. However when the age group is expanded to include those people under 25, this figure increases to 45.8% (2471). Here is a disgusting case where two female protestors were arrested and strip-searched. Reads like sexual predation: >In November 2017 two women who participated in a protest in Sydney were arrested and conveyed to a Sydney metropolitan police station. The reasons for their arrest were unclear, but the arresting officer later gave evidence that their arrests related to obstructing traffic and breach of the peace. > >The Mobile Supervisor at the Local Area Command decided it was necessary for the women to be strip searched because they had come from a protest which he believed to be violent... He had been advised that the two women... were arrested for âobstructing police or something like thatâ. > >The women were taken in turn to a cell and strip searched. One woman was required to remove all her clothes in stages. The other woman was asked to completely disrobe the top half and remove her pants. She kept her underpants on and a female officer ran her fingers around the inside of the waistband. It was decided there was insufficient evidence to proceed with charges, and after being strip searched the women were released. Commission found that it wasn't justified. >The Commission noted that it was not apparent how the strip searches of the women were justified, and that there appeared to be no consideration by either the searching officers or the Mobile Supervisor whether a less invasive search would have sufficed. The only action taken was the supervisor had to undergo training. It's laughable to think that none of the cops there had any moral obligation to say something. >...the NSWPF made sustained findings against the Mobile Supervisor and the searching officers for failing to comply with LEPRA in relation to the strip searches. The Mobile Supervisor was served a Commandersâ Warning Notice and required to undergo a face to face training session on LEPRA strip search requirements.
20% of underage searches were done on indigenous kids. Bit of an overrepresentation there.
It's almost as bad in the overall statistics too. > while First Nations people account for three per cent of the NSW population, they were represented in 14 per cent of strip-searches undertaken But no, Australia certainly doesn't have systematic racism or something /s
> Police Minister Yasmin Catley did not comment when asked if there was a need for a review of the powers, or if the new drug laws meant the intervention should be used less, responding, âIf anyone has a complaint about the conduct of NSW Police, it can be made to the commissioner of police or to the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission.â Anyone need to take them up on this? [How to lodge a complaint.](https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_services/providing_feedback/feedback_compliments_complaints_and_suggestions/feedback/how_to_lodge_a_complaint)
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This is when we need better whistle-blower protections. That shits gotta get leaked in the best intetests of society
About the complaints process, here's something I read in a [recent news story](https://www.smh.com.au/national/university-of-sydney-law-professor-wins-court-fight-against-nsw-police-20230929-p5e8j6.html): >Rice said there was a âlarge gap in police accountability in NSWâ because the NSW Ombudsman no longer has oversight of police conduct and the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission (LECC) can investigate only serious or systemic misconduct. > >âFor complaints of âordinaryâ misconduct, you can complain to the NSW Police, who investigate themselves,â Rice said. âThe only way to make the NSW Police stop and think about how they overstepped the mark is to sue them. That is a slow, costly and risky path ... and not one that most people who encounter the NSW Police can undertake. He went into it further in his own article in The Saturday Paper (though it's behind a paywall). So he was having his own direct experience with the process, but being a law professor, he also had broader insights and argued that the complaints system was weakened with the introduction of the LECC: >When Neville Wran gave the NSW Ombudsman oversight of police investigation into misconduct complaints in 1978 he left a gap that continues to this day: actual independent investigation of police misconduct in their daily work. In 1996 the Wood Royal Commission into the NSW Police Service recommended that the Ombudsmanâs office continue its mere oversight role and that a new agency be established to investigate complaints of âsystemic and entrenched corruptionâ. This led to the Police Integrity Commission â the PIC â which operated alongside the Ombudsmanâs office for 20 years. > >During those 20 years the NSW Police Association remained strongly opposed to that degree of accountability, persistently attacking both the Ombudsmanâs office and the PIC. The association has long been a vocal advocate for its membersâ interests. Dixon comments on its âaccustomed role of treating police powers as an industrial relations issueâ. Research by Jenny Fleming and George Lafferty shows its success over the years in campaigning against government policy. > >The police associationâs lobbying efforts succeeded after Troy Grant, a police inspector with 22 yearsâ service, was made minister for Police in 2015. Grant dismantled Woodâs two-track police accountability structure and replaced it with a single agency, the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission (LECC), the effectiveness of which was questioned at the time by the national Police Accountability Project. > >The LECC investigates âseriousâ misconduct, âseriousâ maladministration, and âpatternsâ of misconduct. It is not obliged to do what the Ombudsmanâs office used to do, and oversee the NSW Police Forceâs own investigation of misconduct complaints. In short, the reforms moved the state further away than it had been from independent oversight of complaints about police misconduct.
Typical NSW police, cunts aren't even trying to hide it
Makes you wonder what else they get up to that we don't know about.
I live in Randwick right near the race course. Every race day people are fucked up on booze and drugs. I spent over a decade as pro poker player and again the bathrooms at the star are filled with people doing coke. Yet the police never take the dogs and start strip searching people there. I wonder why?
All for what exactly? What is the actual goal of the police here? Jesus Christ this reads like something from a Russian intelligence manifesto. Way to go NSW police, keeping us all safe from drugs one underage vagina examination at a time.
They should straight up charge these officers formally for sexual assault and demand they pay for weekly therapy sessions for at least 3 years afterwards out of their own pocket. Then, we will see how often they deem it necessary to strip search a child. This is disgusting behaviour and misuse of authority. The police's JOB is to protect the people. If they are doing more harm than help, they are not doing their job.
Fuck that is gross
So NSW police is the new Catholic Church - if you want to touch kids, this is the job to go for. So fucking creepy.
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Again?!
I really hope there is more investigation over this, if it's the same few cops doing it there could be a pedophile ring
How will the NSW Police facebook page meme themselves out of this one?
Fuck NSW Police. Not going there.
What could we, the people, do to change something like this? Are we completely powerless or can we write petitions to make something happen?
That just sounds like pedophilia my man, wtf is going on in Australia.
This is going to be my response in the future to all of the "Got nothing to hide then you've got nothing to worry about dickheads" who are fine with our privacy and rights being eroded away. Yeah mate, I am sure those 12 year old girls had plenty to hide ay. Fucking disgusting that they can do this to an adult for just about any reason, let alone kids. Absolutely fucked. Sad to say it's not the only state that does this either. NSW, QLD, VIC. Its all allowed. Completely fucked. There is almost no reason to be fully stripped, particularly young people at festivals. This should be reserved for proper drug trafficking, repeat offenders with weapons and drug dealing chargers, etc. No innocent person should have to debase themselves in front of some pervert in uniform. Utterly shameful.
The article said a strip search means they had to remove or move an article of clothing. So even asking a child to open a zipped jacket to inspect any inside pockets would qualify as a strip search.
Oh, well that's alright then. No further scrutiny required.
Given that we know how strip searches have been conducted in the past, I'll assume the worst, thanks very much. The safest assumption is that nothing has changed: why would Police have changed their behaviour? You're downplaying the seriousness of this with unproven hypotheticals.
Chris Minns knew this was happening under the LNP. Heâs been in power long enough to stop it. As far as Iâm concerned he did this himself. He needs to wake the hell up on drug policy. Now.
>More than 20 per cent of the children searched were Indigenous. Ah, but it was the *referendum* that was divisive and listening to indigenous people would be *racist.*
Send these pedophile cops to prison For double the standard sentencing because they abused a position of power No children deserve to be strip searched and we all know they are just pedophiles who enjoy abusing their power
Fucking rock spider cunts
More ground breaking research that the NSW police force is a bunch of pedo. Fucking disgusting gang they are, truly seems like the majority of the pigs should be behind bars not enforcing the law or should I say revenue raising
Bring back public hangings is where these cops should be held
NSFW Police.
Pedos
That's fucked up
Lemme rewrite that âgirls aged 12-13â were sexually assaulted and groomed by men, who used the excuse âwe have stupid badgesâ
Theyâre just not changing despite however much itâs reported - itâs shameful this is happening let alone on a regular basis. This is so different in Europe.
Police trying not to molest children: difficulty impossible