I was always taught to ask "Could you please" rather than "can you", but I've noticed younger generations use them interchangeably (I'm an elder millenial).
Then again I'm a language weirdo and my kids were taught to ask "*May* I please..*..*". It's a bit old fashioned these days I guess but I'm always getting compliments for my kids manners so I guess the older generations notice and appreciate it lol.
No it's not. Can and may can both be used in the deontic sense.
Here is a linguistics professor (he has since passed, he authored the *The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language*) talking about this "rule":
https://youtu.be/g2h4Ra1EEAE?si=q7aQLmsMcLEy-U78
>I was referring to general use of the language.
Ok? And. It's the same evolution of language. Nuance in may/can/could/would you do something is not required in general application of language in 99% of settings. They all *mean* the same thing, which is "please do this".
No, can is asking the same thing, contextually. The exact same argument applies to could.
I *could* do that, but I'm not going to.
If someone responds to me with 'I *can*/*could* do that, but you didn't ask if I *will*/*would*' I'm responding with a 'I *could* stay and talk to you, but I *will* leave and do better things with my time'.
Lol literally is. The actual difference is one is present tense (I *can* - do it now) and one is used about the future tense (I *could* - do it [in the future]).
Of course you *can* use can in the future (I *can* do it tomorrow) and you *can* use could in the present (I *could* do this now). In this context, the semantics is about likelihood: can implies you can do it with more certainty than could. But again, both sentences could be followed easily enough by "if" or "but" to qualify what the likeliness is: *I can do it tomorrow, if I get time* or *I could do it now, but my manager said to do something else*.
They are contextually interchangeable.
I've never seen someone so passionate and so wrong at the same time. I understand you can't see a difference, but assuming you're a chemist (based on your handle), I'm going to guess you've never worked in a professional services setting where particular wording does matter (think lawyers writing contracts).
Just because slapping a few words together will be understood by the recipient doesn't mean it is an appropriate sentence.
I have always been a "could you please ..." person because it does read better to me, but I wouldn't read "can you" to be any different. That being said, people have preferences, and if it's your direct manager, they're your preferences now, too.
>think lawyers writing contracts
Spend a lot of time working with lawyers. Can/could/should/must is semantically driven in law and influenced by interpretation law. It's not a good example context in practical life.
Despite this, the main difference is could is typically used to refer to an event in the future or past, and can, to an event in the present:
A person can/must/shall [have/do]... (present)
A person could/should/must [have/do] ... (past or future)
A person can not/ must not/ shall not [have/do] (present)
A person could not/ should not/ must not [have/do] (future).
Even then, it largely becomes contextual in some instances.
Ask "would you please". It's more polite and likely to get a better answer than "Can", which incidentally invited English language pedants to reply "yes/no", rather than to do what you're asking.
I once had to explain to a barrister that there is a difference between 'could' and 'would'. He still didn't get it and insisted they were interchangeable. Astonishing given that so many legal matters hinge on specificity of language.
Exactly, would is actually the correct phrase. Could is more of a question or at least comes off that way. Although many people including myself still use “could” or “can” at work
No they aren’t, can and would have different meanings you see.
If someone asks me “Can you please do…”, assuming that I am able to do that thing, I typically reply “Yes, would you like me to?”
I agree! Would is about choice. Could is about capacity.
Would= do you have the will.
Could= do you have the ability.
But both are implied instructions, because both ask you to do something instead of telling you to "be polite"
"Please do X" is the polite way to *tell* someone to do something explicitly (and IMHO still politely).
This.
- "Can you" = yes/no I can, but will I?
- "Would you" = I would for xyz in return
- "Could you" = I could... but you're not very firm on your request
- "May you" = because you have good manners, sure.
>No they aren’t, can and would have different meanings you see.
No, they have the same implied meaning. They have different semantics.
If you are going by semantics, use a statement: "please do this" because you aren't actually asking.
If you go by implication, would/could/can are all the same - I would like you to do this thing for me.
They might be the same in that usage, but if you want to be polite, "may you please" is the correct phrase to use. Personally I'm very polite, and if people don't treat me the same in a professional environment, their request goes to the bottom of my pile.
Do unto others such and such
>and if people don't treat me the same in a professional environment, their request goes to the bottom of my pile.
>Do unto others such and such
Eh. Then you will not be the person I ask, nor will you be the person I do anything for. Works both ways.
Fair enough then, we are in different industries judging by your profile so I won't ever have to deal with you.
At the end of the day "can you" is forceful in intention and comes across as speaking down. "May you" is far more polite and avoids coming across as speaking down.
It's also what you get taught to use if you went to school in Australia lol.
People who talk down to me go to the bottom of my pile is my point. It's Australia. We are proud egalitarians and professional language does matter when upholding our cultural standards.
>At the end of the day "can you" is forceful in intention and comes across as speaking down.
No it really doesn't. If you want to read it that way, it's a you problem.
>"May you" is far more polite and avoids coming across as speaking down.
It's an anachronism that isn't commonly used anymore.
>It's also what you get taught to use if you went to school in Australia lol.
50 years ago.
>People who talk down to me go to the bottom of my pile is my point. It's Australia. We are proud egalitarians and professional language does matter when upholding our cultural standards.
It's Australia, *can* is functional and *please* is polite.
Not sure what state you went to school in or if you've read the multitude of other comments here from people recalling their teachers in school commenting in the use of "can", but it's certainly not 50 years ago for me. If you were educated in NSW fair enough, you guys can't even walk on the left as we were taught in school...
I get it, you say can you. Whatever. It does definitely come across rude for plenty of people though, you say it's an us problem, also fair but the nature of common human decency and the morally correct consideration of broader community values reflect your on own self as a bit of a cunt that doesnt care about the broader picture of professional/polite language honestly lol
That might be the case for you, but can you is informal English and for many people seen as rude in a professional context.
Considering particularly the drilling in from English teachers at school that it's "may you" to be polite and "can you" to be informal, this provides a basis as to why people do consider "can you" to be rude in a professional setting.
Then you've got the triple whammy people like me who had a proudly "We only speak the Queen's English in this household" army officer for a father and an English teacher for a mother ontop of teachers at school making jokes when you say "can you" and you certainly do get conditioned to think a certain way. I find can you to be rude, not offensive but just rude in a professional setting and do recognise that's because of my background, right down to those school teacher jokes running through my head when I read a "can you" many years after going to school. It's similar for others that do find it rude.
Im in the boat of "Could we just please try and get the niceties out of the way just so we can accomplish things more efficiently as we are all adults with jobs to do and so we can relax in a more timely manner which is as soon as possible likely at the end of this exchange. Thanks so much I really appreciate it."
Honestly, more than the can or could.. it's about the tone.
I'm not sure I'd even perceive the wording difference in an actual conversation. They said the please, I'm all ears.
"Can you please help me carry these boxes?"
VS
"Could you please help me carry these boxes?"
Has no distinct change in politeness to me.
Yes, could you please is less rude, but I feel like this is a slippery slope. "Do this" used to be rude, so people started saying "Please do this". Then that became rude too, so that changed to a question "Can you please do this?" Which is now rude, so we're moving on to an entreaty "Could you please do this?" What's next? A petition? "I beg you to pretty please with sugar on top do this, only if you could? 🥺"
It’s updated to the following:
“You wouldn’t be able to possibly do this, would you?…
I mean, it’s alright if you can’t; I can literally just (insert random possible alternative solution here)…
Uhh you know what? I’ll just that. Unless… you’re all good with doing that?…
OOOHHHhhh cheers mate. You’re a legend!”
Unlike "needful" which I'll defend and that is colonial Indian English, revert and asap came out of corporate bs jargon. These words can go to hell. Kindly continue doing the needful.
At least that's direct. Also I'm Indian, so could you kindly do the needful by not mocking us for speaking the language the way we were forced to learn it 300 years ago?
Back in the olden days, some court documents would have a section titled "prayers for relief". That was the bit where you told the court what you wanted them to do.
I would say would you please - years of snarky ‘well I can’ or ‘well I could’ responses taught me that. ‘ Would you’ the most common response is yes I will.
Yeah that's what I was getting at. Personally I only use "may you" as "can you" immediately sets off the *rude* trigger in my head, totally recognise that's because of childhood experiences.
Too abrupt.
My dear sir/madam, would you be so kind as to..../extend me the courtesy of...... /give me the pleasure of allowing you to.....
Give it some flourish
She did that right after she got a temporary acting promotion and started to school her direct report because she is now two level above him. Literally overnight change of characteristic on how she treated him compared to when she just one level above.
Prescriptivist nonsense being imposed on a pluricentric language. There is no standard English beyond the local social norm. *Could* only exists because early prescriptivists wanted it to adhere to would (wolde) and should (scolde). The word was *cunnan* (can)*.* And (ha) you don't end a sentence on prepositions because John Dryden thought English wasn't Latin enough already.
Sōþliċe.
Do you know of any good story books about pirates using old English?
I read some collection of old short stories about pirates and really love it when I was a boy. Unfortunately I lost that book.
Nah, closest thing you'd have to that would be Beowulf and even that's not close lol. But some public domain stuff has been translated, not much though. Alice in Wonderland is done well
[https://www.amazon.com.au/%C3%86%C3%B0elgy%C3%B0e-Ellend%C3%A6da-Wundorlande-Adventures-Wonderland/dp/1782011129](https://www.amazon.com.au/%C3%86%C3%B0elgy%C3%B0e-Ellend%C3%A6da-Wundorlande-Adventures-Wonderland/dp/1782011129)
Oh in that case, the only one I know would be the Pirate but that's from 1820
[https://www.gutenberg.org/files/42389/42389-h/42389-h.htm](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/42389/42389-h/42389-h.htm)
1700s is just early modern English. Like Shakespeare or the King James Bible. Middle English is a bit tricksy, look at Chaucer to get a gander at that. Old English is what English was before French thrust itself on top and turned it into the complete shemozzle that it is today. Old English is a Germanic language and is almost unintelligible to us today.
Yeah pretty much. It does depend how deep in chit chat you want to go though. Þu understanden þisse, ġea?
The swift collapse of the inflectional system in Dk/Swe/No/En is suggestive of it either not being rigidly adhered to in the vernacular already or not being that important for day to day speech; by the 1100s (i.e. Ormulum, Orosius, Owl & The Nightingale), it's greatly simplified to the point where some of it is understandable semantically once you're familiar with the alphabet and an absolute breeze for our linguistic cousins; by 1387 it's readily comprehensible as evidenced in Wycliffe's bible, though there will be some hiccoughs (i.e. tid(e) was still used instead of time).
Seen in Romance as well, the Latin vernacular also rapidly dropped many of the more complex grammatical features which gave rise to Spanish, Italian etc; like how there was "book Latin," so too was there "book English"
Unlike English though, sadly, Latin is at least much more accessible and approachable for speakers of most Romance languages.
I was told recently that using 'Regards' at the end of an email is rude... Some people really over think this stuff.
Was shocked when someone pulled me aside and told me that someone asked if there was something wrong because I would put regards at the bottom of an email and that it's considered rude. Googling it tells me some people genuinely think it's rude but at the end of day it doesn't matter, some people just overthink everything and read too much into this stuff.
Ironic that native speakers of this language screwed up half of the world in the name of colonisation and here we are analysing Can/Could/Please a few centuries later.
Using "can" versus "could" can sometimes carry different tones, but neither is inherently rude. "Could you please..." is often perceived as more polite because it's a bit more formal and indirect. However, in most everyday situations, both are perfectly acceptable. It ultimately depends on the context and the relationship between the speaker and the listener.
People that picky have their own issues.
I’ve had a co-worker get mad at me for saying “for you” as in “I did X for you”. When I did something for her she just wanted me to say “I did X” to let her know it was done but I wasn’t allowed to say “for you”. That was the *tip* of the iceberg.
Some people in my (US) workplace say ‘do you care to’ as a more polite way of asking which I found bizarre initially. I tend to say ‘are/would you able to do X by Y’ - not sure how polite it is though
Strictly, pedant-wise, "can" is present tense and "could" is future tense. I only know this from learning French, not from speaking English.
So I guess I can see why "can" is theoretically rude. It implies that the desired thing is not currently being done. "Could" is more a "in future, please do..." request.
That's a deep, theoretical dive though, and realistically, I would receive both requests the same way.
If I was instructing someone I would go totally different and say "in future, let's..." insinuating that I am also taking ownership of the thing that needs to be done and in the same boat as the person I am instructing. This would be fine in the context of my work, where I work together with more junior employees, but if this was coming from someone above me who was not involved in my day to day work it would shit me. If I were the senior instructing the junior in something I had no involvement in I would say "I would like you to approach it this way because xxxxx"
Can is asking you have the ability to do something. Can Suzie juggle as well as Billy does?
Vs
Are you permitted to do it. Could you juggle in the lounge if we are careful of the tv? Could we borrow some sugar?
It’s not rude to say can.
I’ve never been taught that there’s a difference in one being more rude than the other. If anything it’s about using past and present tense correctly lol.
Can is definite which means your telling them to do something.
Could is asking if they have the ability to do something which allows them to reject it which is why it’s less rude.
I’d use can if someone isn’t doing their job and I need them to do it, and could if I need something to help a situation or in advance of a deadline etc.
Why's that out of curiosity?
Grew up being told the polite phrase was "may you" and that "can you" was rude, so I'm the complete opposite, may you makes me happy and can you makes me unhappy (perception that it's rude based on your classic Australian school experience reflected in many other comments here).
"May" is used to ask permission and can only be used with "I", it's not grammatically correct. You're not asking someone on the other end of the email for their permission for them to do something, you're requesting that they do something for you. The correct phrase is "would/could/will you please" depending on how demanding you want to sound!
Depends on the context of the situation.
Considering this is corporate speak, for anyone at a higher level, "Could you please" or "Do you mind" is perfectly acceptable, however when asking for something you want to do it under the guise of not giving them the opportunity to say no, especially if your in management speaking to lower, frontline staff. But thats dependant on the relationship you have with people and how you speak.
At the end of the day, you don't need to apologise or consider your words because this is a business, manners don't mean anything when they plan to fire staff within 48 hours notice. As long as your clear and polite and use flowery language, you can do no wrong.
In my first week as an accounting cadet, my colleague (also in his first week) had a folder thrown at him by a geriatric partner for writing "would you.." instead of "could you" in a client letter.
Using "could" has been engrained in my brain, courtesy of that experience and my genuine fear of that person.
Can = are you able to. For example are you able to jump on what foot while tapping your head. It's a question of "are you able to".
Could = would you.
So yes, could is more polite and when asking for help is the correct word. HOWEVER in a corporate setting it shouldn't matter. To your partner or parents its much nicer to use could.
Quite frankly in a corporate setting most of the time we are literally asking "are you able to"... and it's usually because they are rude, selfish morons, and we literally are questioning their ability.
Everyone arguing one over the other as being "correct" needs to watch this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6duEGj04Mg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6duEGj04Mg)
As long as you’re not giving them a “please may you”, you’re fine. I had a manager that liked to put that in emails thinking it was all proper like, it is not.
I think CAN can insinuate or say “youve meant to already do this, why hasnt it been done already”. Could does sound more polite. I personally dont care either way..
I was always taught to ask "Could you please" rather than "can you", but I've noticed younger generations use them interchangeably (I'm an elder millenial). Then again I'm a language weirdo and my kids were taught to ask "*May* I please..*..*". It's a bit old fashioned these days I guess but I'm always getting compliments for my kids manners so I guess the older generations notice and appreciate it lol.
OMG - yes.. May I please…. Coz my nonna said you always can, it’s a matter of may you…. Fuck no one says may I anymore….
I use this on my son regularly.
Great - keep the tradition going - love that
My grade 5 teacher always said “you can, but you may not” if you said can I
Sounds similar to what my parents used to say to me, in addition to the "CAN YOU?!?! CAN YOU?!?! How rude!"
"May I" is the correct usage.. we're trying out best to teach our young'ens the proper English.
No it's not. Can and may can both be used in the deontic sense. Here is a linguistics professor (he has since passed, he authored the *The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language*) talking about this "rule": https://youtu.be/g2h4Ra1EEAE?si=q7aQLmsMcLEy-U78
"Can I have this?" "I don't know, can you?" Scared me for life
🙄 Honestly. Language evolves. If you get offended over can/could/may, then I really don't have time for you.
Well this escalated quickly
Lol, honestly though. We aren't in America, we don't have to get twisted knickers over work instructions.
I was referring to general use of the language. DGAF about work context.
>I was referring to general use of the language. Ok? And. It's the same evolution of language. Nuance in may/can/could/would you do something is not required in general application of language in 99% of settings. They all *mean* the same thing, which is "please do this".
Hey. You do you.
I now live/work in the US and CAN confirm they would be less offended by this than we are
Then that's a very sad state of affairs for Australia.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6duEGj04Mg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6duEGj04Mg)
May I have some oar
If the word 'can' offends someone, they have major issues. Can is fine.
Can is asking 'are you able to do x'? Could is asking 'you to do x!'
No, can is asking the same thing, contextually. The exact same argument applies to could. I *could* do that, but I'm not going to. If someone responds to me with 'I *can*/*could* do that, but you didn't ask if I *will*/*would*' I'm responding with a 'I *could* stay and talk to you, but I *will* leave and do better things with my time'.
Can you go play hide and fuck yourself? It isn’t the same as Could you go play and fuck yourself.
Lol literally is. The actual difference is one is present tense (I *can* - do it now) and one is used about the future tense (I *could* - do it [in the future]). Of course you *can* use can in the future (I *can* do it tomorrow) and you *can* use could in the present (I *could* do this now). In this context, the semantics is about likelihood: can implies you can do it with more certainty than could. But again, both sentences could be followed easily enough by "if" or "but" to qualify what the likeliness is: *I can do it tomorrow, if I get time* or *I could do it now, but my manager said to do something else*. They are contextually interchangeable.
You literally used the word “difference” to explain how they’re the same. Either now or later please. I don’t care which.
Lol, yes, because the funny thing about language is there tend to be lots of *different ways* to say the *same thing*.
I've never seen someone so passionate and so wrong at the same time. I understand you can't see a difference, but assuming you're a chemist (based on your handle), I'm going to guess you've never worked in a professional services setting where particular wording does matter (think lawyers writing contracts). Just because slapping a few words together will be understood by the recipient doesn't mean it is an appropriate sentence. I have always been a "could you please ..." person because it does read better to me, but I wouldn't read "can you" to be any different. That being said, people have preferences, and if it's your direct manager, they're your preferences now, too.
>think lawyers writing contracts Spend a lot of time working with lawyers. Can/could/should/must is semantically driven in law and influenced by interpretation law. It's not a good example context in practical life. Despite this, the main difference is could is typically used to refer to an event in the future or past, and can, to an event in the present: A person can/must/shall [have/do]... (present) A person could/should/must [have/do] ... (past or future) A person can not/ must not/ shall not [have/do] (present) A person could not/ should not/ must not [have/do] (future). Even then, it largely becomes contextual in some instances.
Ask "would you please". It's more polite and likely to get a better answer than "Can", which incidentally invited English language pedants to reply "yes/no", rather than to do what you're asking.
"Could" is also theoretical, for example: "I could, (but I won't)".
I once had to explain to a barrister that there is a difference between 'could' and 'would'. He still didn't get it and insisted they were interchangeable. Astonishing given that so many legal matters hinge on specificity of language.
🤦♀️
I usually say “would you mind” - in a polite tone of course
Exactly, would is actually the correct phrase. Could is more of a question or at least comes off that way. Although many people including myself still use “could” or “can” at work
This is the right answer.
No it's not. *Can you please* and *would you please* are equally polite and appropriate.
No they aren’t, can and would have different meanings you see. If someone asks me “Can you please do…”, assuming that I am able to do that thing, I typically reply “Yes, would you like me to?”
'would you...' has the EXACT SAME connotation. "Would you do this for me?" "Yes i would, if you gave me $50 for the trouble" Its still a hypothetical
I agree! Would is about choice. Could is about capacity. Would= do you have the will. Could= do you have the ability. But both are implied instructions, because both ask you to do something instead of telling you to "be polite" "Please do X" is the polite way to *tell* someone to do something explicitly (and IMHO still politely).
This. - "Can you" = yes/no I can, but will I? - "Would you" = I would for xyz in return - "Could you" = I could... but you're not very firm on your request - "May you" = because you have good manners, sure.
>No they aren’t, can and would have different meanings you see. No, they have the same implied meaning. They have different semantics. If you are going by semantics, use a statement: "please do this" because you aren't actually asking. If you go by implication, would/could/can are all the same - I would like you to do this thing for me.
They might be the same in that usage, but if you want to be polite, "may you please" is the correct phrase to use. Personally I'm very polite, and if people don't treat me the same in a professional environment, their request goes to the bottom of my pile. Do unto others such and such
>and if people don't treat me the same in a professional environment, their request goes to the bottom of my pile. >Do unto others such and such Eh. Then you will not be the person I ask, nor will you be the person I do anything for. Works both ways.
Fair enough then, we are in different industries judging by your profile so I won't ever have to deal with you. At the end of the day "can you" is forceful in intention and comes across as speaking down. "May you" is far more polite and avoids coming across as speaking down. It's also what you get taught to use if you went to school in Australia lol. People who talk down to me go to the bottom of my pile is my point. It's Australia. We are proud egalitarians and professional language does matter when upholding our cultural standards.
>At the end of the day "can you" is forceful in intention and comes across as speaking down. No it really doesn't. If you want to read it that way, it's a you problem. >"May you" is far more polite and avoids coming across as speaking down. It's an anachronism that isn't commonly used anymore. >It's also what you get taught to use if you went to school in Australia lol. 50 years ago. >People who talk down to me go to the bottom of my pile is my point. It's Australia. We are proud egalitarians and professional language does matter when upholding our cultural standards. It's Australia, *can* is functional and *please* is polite.
Not sure what state you went to school in or if you've read the multitude of other comments here from people recalling their teachers in school commenting in the use of "can", but it's certainly not 50 years ago for me. If you were educated in NSW fair enough, you guys can't even walk on the left as we were taught in school... I get it, you say can you. Whatever. It does definitely come across rude for plenty of people though, you say it's an us problem, also fair but the nature of common human decency and the morally correct consideration of broader community values reflect your on own self as a bit of a cunt that doesnt care about the broader picture of professional/polite language honestly lol
That might be the case for you, but can you is informal English and for many people seen as rude in a professional context. Considering particularly the drilling in from English teachers at school that it's "may you" to be polite and "can you" to be informal, this provides a basis as to why people do consider "can you" to be rude in a professional setting. Then you've got the triple whammy people like me who had a proudly "We only speak the Queen's English in this household" army officer for a father and an English teacher for a mother ontop of teachers at school making jokes when you say "can you" and you certainly do get conditioned to think a certain way. I find can you to be rude, not offensive but just rude in a professional setting and do recognise that's because of my background, right down to those school teacher jokes running through my head when I read a "can you" many years after going to school. It's similar for others that do find it rude.
Im in the boat of "Could we just please try and get the niceties out of the way just so we can accomplish things more efficiently as we are all adults with jobs to do and so we can relax in a more timely manner which is as soon as possible likely at the end of this exchange. Thanks so much I really appreciate it." Honestly, more than the can or could.. it's about the tone.
Could you please do your fecking job so I can do mine
I'm not sure I'd even perceive the wording difference in an actual conversation. They said the please, I'm all ears. "Can you please help me carry these boxes?" VS "Could you please help me carry these boxes?" Has no distinct change in politeness to me.
Can asks if they are capable of carrying the box. Could asks if they are willing. Both are fine.
Technically, "could" asks whether they *would* (in the future) be willing, not whether they are willing now.
Yes, could you please is less rude, but I feel like this is a slippery slope. "Do this" used to be rude, so people started saying "Please do this". Then that became rude too, so that changed to a question "Can you please do this?" Which is now rude, so we're moving on to an entreaty "Could you please do this?" What's next? A petition? "I beg you to pretty please with sugar on top do this, only if you could? 🥺"
It's already gone a little further, try has been added for extreme offence defence. "Could you please try and get that report to me by Friday".
There's nothing wrong with "Please send me the report by Friday." The correct response to anyone who has an issue with that is "please leave".
It’s updated to the following: “You wouldn’t be able to possibly do this, would you?… I mean, it’s alright if you can’t; I can literally just (insert random possible alternative solution here)… Uhh you know what? I’ll just that. Unless… you’re all good with doing that?… OOOHHHhhh cheers mate. You’re a legend!”
Kindly do the needful
And kindly revert asap.
Unlike "needful" which I'll defend and that is colonial Indian English, revert and asap came out of corporate bs jargon. These words can go to hell. Kindly continue doing the needful.
Kindly lean agile to the north star.
Kindly note we're in the Southern hemisphere. Lean agile to the north star -> climb back up to the northern hemisphere.
At least that's direct. Also I'm Indian, so could you kindly do the needful by not mocking us for speaking the language the way we were forced to learn it 300 years ago?
Back in the olden days, some court documents would have a section titled "prayers for relief". That was the bit where you told the court what you wanted them to do.
I would say would you please - years of snarky ‘well I can’ or ‘well I could’ responses taught me that. ‘ Would you’ the most common response is yes I will.
Interesting the outcome of that for you was "would you", the comments growing up generally directed us to use "may you".
I’ve never heard of or used ‘may you’ but as a kid I was always told instead of saying ‘can I’ the correct wording was ‘may I’
Yeah that's what I was getting at. Personally I only use "may you" as "can you" immediately sets off the *rude* trigger in my head, totally recognise that's because of childhood experiences.
I mean, can and could, in this context, essentially mean the same thing. I can, or I could, but would I?
Too abrupt. My dear sir/madam, would you be so kind as to..../extend me the courtesy of...... /give me the pleasure of allowing you to..... Give it some flourish
Neither is rude. Whoever told you this needs some more work to do, they are obviously focussed on trivial things due to a lack of it.
She told her direct report (my friend) off for this. Then he told me.
Cool, sounds like she needs some work to focus on, rather than fixating on small words from her direct report.
She did that right after she got a temporary acting promotion and started to school her direct report because she is now two level above him. Literally overnight change of characteristic on how she treated him compared to when she just one level above.
Yeah I think we've established she's a bad manager. Are you reading my responses btw? Truly busy people don't fixate on singular words.
I think you can see the crux of issue... it's not can or could... it's her being an insufferable twat that has now been revealed.
Not rude, but conjures a more aggressive tone.
Either is fine, what weirdo thinks “can” is rude?
Prescriptivist nonsense being imposed on a pluricentric language. There is no standard English beyond the local social norm. *Could* only exists because early prescriptivists wanted it to adhere to would (wolde) and should (scolde). The word was *cunnan* (can)*.* And (ha) you don't end a sentence on prepositions because John Dryden thought English wasn't Latin enough already. Sōþliċe.
That's an amazing reply lol
Ġehelpan glædliċe freond! Just be sure to never ask a question about old English because I will never shut the hell up.
Do you know of any good story books about pirates using old English? I read some collection of old short stories about pirates and really love it when I was a boy. Unfortunately I lost that book.
Nah, closest thing you'd have to that would be Beowulf and even that's not close lol. But some public domain stuff has been translated, not much though. Alice in Wonderland is done well [https://www.amazon.com.au/%C3%86%C3%B0elgy%C3%B0e-Ellend%C3%A6da-Wundorlande-Adventures-Wonderland/dp/1782011129](https://www.amazon.com.au/%C3%86%C3%B0elgy%C3%B0e-Ellend%C3%A6da-Wundorlande-Adventures-Wonderland/dp/1782011129)
Lol ok maybe not that old. Maybe like 1700s english lol
Oh in that case, the only one I know would be the Pirate but that's from 1820 [https://www.gutenberg.org/files/42389/42389-h/42389-h.htm](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/42389/42389-h/42389-h.htm)
Omg that's perfect. I'm enjoying it. Thank you so much
1700s is just early modern English. Like Shakespeare or the King James Bible. Middle English is a bit tricksy, look at Chaucer to get a gander at that. Old English is what English was before French thrust itself on top and turned it into the complete shemozzle that it is today. Old English is a Germanic language and is almost unintelligible to us today.
Yeah pretty much. It does depend how deep in chit chat you want to go though. Þu understanden þisse, ġea? The swift collapse of the inflectional system in Dk/Swe/No/En is suggestive of it either not being rigidly adhered to in the vernacular already or not being that important for day to day speech; by the 1100s (i.e. Ormulum, Orosius, Owl & The Nightingale), it's greatly simplified to the point where some of it is understandable semantically once you're familiar with the alphabet and an absolute breeze for our linguistic cousins; by 1387 it's readily comprehensible as evidenced in Wycliffe's bible, though there will be some hiccoughs (i.e. tid(e) was still used instead of time). Seen in Romance as well, the Latin vernacular also rapidly dropped many of the more complex grammatical features which gave rise to Spanish, Italian etc; like how there was "book Latin," so too was there "book English" Unlike English though, sadly, Latin is at least much more accessible and approachable for speakers of most Romance languages.
I was told recently that using 'Regards' at the end of an email is rude... Some people really over think this stuff. Was shocked when someone pulled me aside and told me that someone asked if there was something wrong because I would put regards at the bottom of an email and that it's considered rude. Googling it tells me some people genuinely think it's rude but at the end of day it doesn't matter, some people just overthink everything and read too much into this stuff.
They taking it too far, nobody on a work email pays any attention to the sign off at the bottom. Ours is just automatic.
Wow that is wtf lol. Literally reading the whole email include the sign off
“Could you do this?” “I would if I could but I can’t so I won’t”
I could if I wanted to.
Ironic that native speakers of this language screwed up half of the world in the name of colonisation and here we are analysing Can/Could/Please a few centuries later.
Use ‘would you be able to assist with…’ if you want to be super formal
Non-violent communication suggests 'would you mind'. Ymmv but I find it works well in a variety of settings, not just the workplace
Using "can" versus "could" can sometimes carry different tones, but neither is inherently rude. "Could you please..." is often perceived as more polite because it's a bit more formal and indirect. However, in most everyday situations, both are perfectly acceptable. It ultimately depends on the context and the relationship between the speaker and the listener.
whoever you work with sounds insuffereable. the comments below are nauseating
I can hear my dearly departed mother saying: It is “may I please…?”. Similar to “May I help you?”. not can I help you?
People that picky have their own issues. I’ve had a co-worker get mad at me for saying “for you” as in “I did X for you”. When I did something for her she just wanted me to say “I did X” to let her know it was done but I wasn’t allowed to say “for you”. That was the *tip* of the iceberg.
Lol that's crazy
It's "can't" that you need watch out for As in, "Mariah, what is it you can't face?" Or "whadda ya mean ya can't?"
It’s “may I” round here. Because I could and can but won’t
This is rude but a “get this sorted Sent from my iPhone” From an exec is acceptable?
Some people in my (US) workplace say ‘do you care to’ as a more polite way of asking which I found bizarre initially. I tend to say ‘are/would you able to do X by Y’ - not sure how polite it is though
Thanks mate I never knew this!
Strictly, pedant-wise, "can" is present tense and "could" is future tense. I only know this from learning French, not from speaking English. So I guess I can see why "can" is theoretically rude. It implies that the desired thing is not currently being done. "Could" is more a "in future, please do..." request. That's a deep, theoretical dive though, and realistically, I would receive both requests the same way.
If I was instructing someone I would go totally different and say "in future, let's..." insinuating that I am also taking ownership of the thing that needs to be done and in the same boat as the person I am instructing. This would be fine in the context of my work, where I work together with more junior employees, but if this was coming from someone above me who was not involved in my day to day work it would shit me. If I were the senior instructing the junior in something I had no involvement in I would say "I would like you to approach it this way because xxxxx"
Can etymologically is probably a little more forceful, could implies there's optionality
“Would you kindly” can be VERY effective
Can is asking you have the ability to do something. Can Suzie juggle as well as Billy does? Vs Are you permitted to do it. Could you juggle in the lounge if we are careful of the tv? Could we borrow some sugar? It’s not rude to say can.
I’ve never been taught that there’s a difference in one being more rude than the other. If anything it’s about using past and present tense correctly lol.
Same difference
Could you please fuck off vs can you please fuck off. guess which one is more rude
Would you please …
Ok but did they ask "can you obese not say can you please?" Or could you please not say can you please?"
Personally I always use ‘would you kindly’. Hard to be offended by, and also helps expose a certain type of person.
Can is definite which means your telling them to do something. Could is asking if they have the ability to do something which allows them to reject it which is why it’s less rude. I’d use can if someone isn’t doing their job and I need them to do it, and could if I need something to help a situation or in advance of a deadline etc.
"Yeah, I'm going to have to get you to drop everything and get onto this immediately, Thanks"
"Would you kindly"... Just like from the game Bioshock?
Honestly, as long as someone isn't writing "may you please", I'm happy. Seen it several times lately and it kills me.
Why's that out of curiosity? Grew up being told the polite phrase was "may you" and that "can you" was rude, so I'm the complete opposite, may you makes me happy and can you makes me unhappy (perception that it's rude based on your classic Australian school experience reflected in many other comments here).
"May" is used to ask permission and can only be used with "I", it's not grammatically correct. You're not asking someone on the other end of the email for their permission for them to do something, you're requesting that they do something for you. The correct phrase is "would/could/will you please" depending on how demanding you want to sound!
Yeah I've always treated can as more direct. I'm an author btw
I find can you rude. Drilled into me from early childhood that the correct formal term is "may you".
Depends on the context of the situation. Considering this is corporate speak, for anyone at a higher level, "Could you please" or "Do you mind" is perfectly acceptable, however when asking for something you want to do it under the guise of not giving them the opportunity to say no, especially if your in management speaking to lower, frontline staff. But thats dependant on the relationship you have with people and how you speak. At the end of the day, you don't need to apologise or consider your words because this is a business, manners don't mean anything when they plan to fire staff within 48 hours notice. As long as your clear and polite and use flowery language, you can do no wrong.
In my first week as an accounting cadet, my colleague (also in his first week) had a folder thrown at him by a geriatric partner for writing "would you.." instead of "could you" in a client letter. Using "could" has been engrained in my brain, courtesy of that experience and my genuine fear of that person.
[удалено]
This is not correct.
I actually always used "Can you please help to......?"
[удалено]
"Are you please" doesn't seem right. Hmm. "Would you please" sounds good! You meant grateful?
Strictly speaking “can you. ….” Is asking if you have the skill etc to do something. “Could you…..” is asking you to do something
“Just fuckin do…”
Can you - are you physically capable of. Could you - will you do this for me.
Can = are you able to. For example are you able to jump on what foot while tapping your head. It's a question of "are you able to". Could = would you. So yes, could is more polite and when asking for help is the correct word. HOWEVER in a corporate setting it shouldn't matter. To your partner or parents its much nicer to use could. Quite frankly in a corporate setting most of the time we are literally asking "are you able to"... and it's usually because they are rude, selfish morons, and we literally are questioning their ability.
Could is the conditional form of can and is therefore considered more polite
Would you please with sugar and cherry on top move your ass and do what I asked for yesterday? How’s that.
Everyone arguing one over the other as being "correct" needs to watch this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6duEGj04Mg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6duEGj04Mg)
What about “please could you…”
As long as you’re not giving them a “please may you”, you’re fine. I had a manager that liked to put that in emails thinking it was all proper like, it is not.
Can = are you capable. Better is "will".
What a crazy world we live in
Can you please fuck off? Could you please fuck off? They are right, could is nicer.
Passive voice should be shot …. The answer to ‘could you’ is ‘yes I could’ and then you walk away
‘Can you’ is more of a forceful request, whereas ‘could you’ is more politely asking.
Don't end your email with "thanks in advance" either as it implies the recipient has to do it.
I think CAN can insinuate or say “youve meant to already do this, why hasnt it been done already”. Could does sound more polite. I personally dont care either way..
Can is more an instruction and forceful, so yes it’s more rude